"KARMA" / Mahatma / Jahnava / Dhanurdar Connection 04 21 24

 

LB: No offence to him but it shocks me that so many like him could have the thought coming to their minds that they are qualified to be a guru and guide people . So much for being honest and self realised.

PMD: “Guru cannot be self-made. No. There is no such single instance throughout the whole Vedic literature. And nowadays, so many rascals, they are becoming guru without any authority. That is not guru. You must be authorised. Evam parampara-praptam imam ra… As soon as the parampara is….kalena yogo nasta parantapa, immediately finished. The spiritual potency finished. You can dress like a guru, you can talk big, big words, but it will never be effective.”

[Srila Prabhupada, Srimad Bhagavatam Lecture, April 14, 1975, Hyderabad]

PKK: Till it happens to him or his kid!

D Dasi: This type of consciousness is propagated by many devotees, and is extremely detrimental for women and children in our society.

HD: He is so deluded because he is so self-obsessed as the arbiter of goodness. His motto “I told you so!”

CF: If someone wants to bring this to Mahatma's attention, he is more than welcome to come here and explain why he teaches like this or if he is being misquoted. He does have a Facebook page where one can send him a message.

FR: Philosophy twisted by crooks.

GP: Although true, it is not appropriate in situations where abuse has occurred, and the concept can be seen as support for the abusers, although we learned something from the abuse, that doesn't excuse the abuser's or criminals or their supporters from facing due punishment. At this time in the history ... if iskcon and the world in general, I believe we need to hear more talk of honesty and justice.

CH: Who is this bonker?

NC: This is the same guy that is charging for Japa classes. Everything rolls back to Radhanatha.

LS: I’ve been in South America recently and he is making a killing charging for his conferences there -- playing many times the role of a “psychologist” without a degree. Innocent people are falling for this. Defended by some leaders there. It is a shame. Should be preaching straight Krsna Katha and not wishy-washy philosophy.

AD: The problem with preaching like this is that it encourages so-called devotee abusers to justify being so-called good agents of karma to punish and abuse misbehaved children instead of artfully changing such children with purity, tolerance, happy devotional activities and genuine love like a mother loves her child.

Better to teach everyone how to become free from bad karma by being happily engaged in the process of Krishna consciousness so that potential abusers don't misinterpret and harm children or anyone else.

I read some reports of abusers using the above statements while abusing children, saying I am the agent of your karma, take this, take that. It was so sad to hear about it. Teacher and parent training is a most important topic. And he is the wrong person to do the teaching.

The Seven Day Adventist vegetarian Christian group conducts parent and teacher training courses for their community and as a result, they have the least amount of abuse and divorce problems. Where are the ISKCON Parent and Teacher Training courses? 

BB: You mean ... freedom from karma ... is a licence to give children suffering karma, because there is no karma for the perps harming children? WTF? Whenever these people speak, I need to take my nerve pills. 

SR: My father used to go to a wellness retreat in California run by the Seventh Day Adventists. He said once a week they would all go to a nearby hall and listen to music and singing by the children of the community. He said everyone was happy and healthy in the community.

AJD: In the UK many years ago my wife and I attended the Seventh Day Adventist Parenting Course and we learned so many practical common sense things that helped us to have a more harmonious family and to take better care of our son. It worked.

Why are the leaders at the TOP of ISKCON so oblivious to what is actually happening at the BOTTOM of Iskcon with the children in the homes and schools of all the devotees? Sitting in ivory towers?

We have gurus with more disciples than they can practically train and teach and they give so many WILD statements that are seen as absolute by their trained-to-be mindless disciples.

For example, bvvnm declared in his lecture last week:

"THE COWS NEED GRASS TO EAT. THE COWS DON'T EAT MONEY."

This statement is TOTALLY INSANE. Srila Prabhupada himself gave money for 5 cows in 1972 and he gave more than 1,000 instructions on Cow Protection that revolves around collecting money to feed the cows.

Cows are like children who need protection which requires money.

And this guy declares don't give money to cows because they just eat grass. Hello, is there anyone home? There is no instance of providing grass for cows without spending MONEY on acquiring, maintaining, and bordering land for cultivating grass; providing extra grain feed; hiring workers; treating sick cows; providing fresh drinking water, providing shelters from extreme weather conditions, etc, etc,.

This statement is just the tip of the ice berg in terms of serious philosophical deviations from Srila Prabhupada's teachings on Cow Protection, Guru Tattva, etc.

While the gurus glut themselves on the TOP by accumulating opulence, money and disciples, so many children at the BOTTOM are the ones that are the most neglected and abused. And now prominent ISKCON leaders are publicly defending the worst child abusers in the history of ISKCON. What in the hell is going on here?

DL: May I ask who bvvnm is? 

AJD: Formerly Birsimha Das from Scotland who became Bhakti Vigna Vinasana Narasimha Maharaja. As a friend and Godbrother I'm trying to help him clear some of his very serious philosophical deviations that disqualify him from acting as a diksha guru for his hundreds of disciples.

DL: I appreciate you speaking out.

TB: The leaders at the top should be required to have training on how to be proficient skilled leaders ! The first qualification should be a compassionate, gentle, kind, loving heart then training! Then all trickles downwards! Our movement needs revamping! 

AD: 'HH BVV Narasimha Swami'

SJ: This is the first time I’m aware of him.

MM: Your father sounds like a very wise and progressive man. One capable of finding truth and goodness from many places.

DB: I was relieved when I took my son out of Gurukula and placed him in the Seventh Day Adventist school. He was happy and safe there.

AJD: Bvvnm preaches in China, Malaysia, and Asia and I have always been his big admirer and friend until he started preaching some serious philosophical deviations. I complained and JPS requested me to take it up with ISKCON Resolve, headed by Vraj Vihari Prabhu, and I did. 

ISKCON Resolve don't make any judgment, their stated purpose is to bring devotees together to communicate their differences and get them resolved. Unfortunately, that didn't happen, and here is why.

I presented to ISKCON Resolve my complaint with evidence that bvvnm has been systemically preaching against Srila Prabhupada's transcendental cow protection seva.

Even given that irrefutable audio and video evidence, shockingly, bvvnm denied it all and claimed he has always supported cow protection. He blatantly lied to the ISKCON resolve. That's where it ended. All I want is for him to STOP preaching against Srila Prabhupada's transcendental cow protection seva.

Bvvnm claims cow protection is a mundane pious activity, it's just a ritual and is not important, and it's not direct devotional service even though Srila Prabhupada spoke about cow protection more than 1,000 times. And he instructs devotees not to give money for cow protection. Here is a quote from a lecture he gave around a week ago:

"THE COWS NEED GRASS TO EAT. THE COWS DON'T EAT MONEY."

If that is how bvvnm is mistreating cows, which is a HUGE RED FLAG, imagine how much he might be neglecting the protection of the children of his hundreds of disciples?

I will report him to the ISKCON Cow Protection Minister and the GBC Executive, but I'm not expecting much ... given the fact that our top leaders and the GBC are supporting ISKCON's worst and most horrific child abusers and trying desperately to have them re-instated on a regular basis.

So for the proper guidance of devotees in general and particularly bvvnm's disciples, I am publicly advising them to simply take shelter in Srila Prabhupada's wonderful ocean of perfect instructions instead of following bvvnm's serious philosophical deviations.

SC: Thank you for making this very important point. There is a lot we can learn. And wouldn't it be nice if ISKCON leaders prioritised out children and families?

SD: I think some context to this post would be helpful.

Having grown up in the Hare Krishna movement and now in my 40s I have heard on multiple occasions, leaders callously saying a child was raped because it was their karma, or abused in some other way. With no sympathy. Even going so far as to say they should be thankful because they are burning off karma. So this bit about karma being your teacher is triggering to many of the second generation devotees raised in the Hare Krishna movement.

One gurukuli woman wrote:

"The pain you teachers and GBC put me threw …… the isolation’s, segregating me from my parents and family …… all the times i was molested and then finally raped YOU the devotees and your PHILOSOPHY said it was my fault my karma …. at the age of 8 or nine my gurukula teacher told me to thank krsna that this man violated me now and not later, that i was paying for my karma, i must have done the same in my past life to a child and now i must accept what happened as krishnas mercy, tell that to my badly swollen 9 year old hairless vagina!"

One gurukuli man even titled his book of childhood abuse at the hands of Hare Krishnas as "My Karma My Fault":

https://www.amazon.com/My-Karma-Fault.../dp/B00HM8I4LU

My Karma My Fault

AMAZON.COM

SD: Mahatma's wife was initiated by Dhanurdhara and she still worships him as her guru. Mahatma goes with her on parikaramas and other programs where Dhanurdhara leads the group as a spiritual authority.

https://iskconleaders.com/jahnava-mataji/

Dhanurdhara was the most named child abuser in ISKCON's $15 million bankruptcy settlement to settle child abuse claims.

https://www.facebook.com/saraswatidasi/posts/10159952664195218

In one abuse case, Mahatma was appointed as "liaison" and misused his position to defend the abuser, his good friend. If Mahatma has ever supported a victim, I would love to hear about it. 

Jahnava Mataji | ISKCON Leaders

KH: He is not wearing a kurta or tilak so it seems clear the audience is not devotees but more so for 'new people', and not devotees or their children.

PP: Kanishta gurus. wishy washy philosophy by Mahatma das.

PD: This is something like what happened to me here in Berkeley. An ex-GBC disciple came up to me on the street and announced that he is now eating hamburgers. Why is that I asked? Well, he explained, any cow born in the USA already has "the karma" of being made into a Mc Donald's, so there is not karma if we go to Mc Donalds. 

See, I am not creating karma, the cow's karma already exists, I am not the cause. I said yeah but even if someone deserves bad karma, only the authorized agents of Yamaraja are qualified to dispense "bad karma," we are not. He did not get it. But this was their changing horses mid-stream argument. 

First they said I am a liar. When we had them sued, then they switched over to "yeah but this is the victim's karma." And they were cursing at me for helping the lawsuit, which they did not just accept as bad karma, they blamed us. Mahatma was still promoting Gunagrahi as Krishna's guru successor even after it was known Gunagrahi was addicted to porno. Yep, children need to worship a porno swamias their link to God. And then Gunagrahi was buried in samadhi. 

And Gunagrahi was famous for destroying marriages and families in South America, leaving many children vulnerable. Then a woman wrote to tell me she gave all her life saving money to Mahatma for her Mayapur apartment, but the building was not even under construction and so she ended up homeless in her car. They are a team. ys pd

EB: Disqualified whole lot, making their living out of so called guruship title, corrupt and untrustworthy.

GP: Thanks, it's good to see the history of these gbc guru people in black and white, so innocent people are not mislead.

VG: Amongst the venerable prabhus,who is able to philosophicaly defeat this vada, result of 50 years of churning the shastras during the daily morning talk shows? What nectar and gems have we collected to oppose these poisonous superstitious talmudic statements? The naked true is that most of us have been depossessed of many tattvas due to the absence of qualified teachers.

VP: Love is the ultimate teaching, not Karma.

ZD: This is a fundamental principle of our literatures. There is nothing wrong with what he his saying. If you are getting these principles twisted, then its probably time to make your spiritual practice more serious and take time to contemplate contemplate contemplate.

CF: I've contemplated quite a bit (I practiced for twenty years, doing everything from book distribution on the 59th street subway platform in NYC to getting a PhD in religious studies).

..and I've decided that if anyone tries to justify this teaching to me or to anyone else, they should run away from that person as far as possible.

So tell me, since you seem to know so much, all those kids who were abused in the ashrams and gurukulas, they deserved it because it was their karma?

ZD: I know one of them. And I have had my own life turned upside down as a result of my knowing. It's not been easy, and this journey with this person is not complete. The details are my learnings. Take away what you want from my words. You can run all you want from me. Block me. Hate me. How far can you run from God though. If I made up truth I can tell You now... This world would be awful. I didn't though.

And I appreciate all your experience this lifetime, but I also appreciate mine too, and also my ancestral line and my own past lives.

Hare Rama 

CF: If you truly had your life turned upside down you wouldn't agree in the slightest with Mahatma's BS interpretation of karma. And take my advice: stop being such a little obedient dog to these teachers and to this concept of God which is really just a projection of a bunch of anal-retentive, power-hungry swamis and priests. 

MM: We might easily interpret the above quote to mean something like - - yes. As I have experienced and or witnessed inhuman and despicable abuses by Iskcon leaders, I will fight to expose them and bring their crimes to light, so such predators will be gone. I think my interpretation carries more wisdom and benefit to human society! Thus, no reason it shouldn’t be embraced by all sincere souls.

Perhaps Mahatma dasa hadn’t really given much depth of thought to his fortune cookie quotes.

GP: As you say it is true, but it is how we use the true statements that either help or not help us and others, regarding child abuse in iskcon it's better to hear about the abusers getting their karma than subtley being told the victim is guilty. We do understand anything that happens is by god's arrangements to help us go forward in life, but we also want to see some justice, not be pushed down and critisised for standing up for justice.

AC: ZD, Sita Devi is supramundane, which means her suffering is impossible. Sita Devi is The Supreme and is always in bliss - never suffering. Next you will be saying the Gopis were 'suffering' in their separation from Sri Krishna?

SF: I have never heard anyone saying "Agents of karma are your teachers " before. That is not "fundamental part of our philosophy" at least not in Vaisnavism. But honestly, if sanskrit wasn't used...; it reminds me of Eastern Orthodox and some Catholic monastics orders; praying and embracing as much suffering , humiliation and maltreatment as possible.

SS: Obviously karma exists, most everybody knows that! The important thing, and the obvious result of that is to take responsibility for our actions. That's the intelligent and moral result of this understanding. Otherwise, you're just a childish charlatan, and probably have criminal tendencies!

JS: Due to their karma they have become GBC (general bathroom cleanerssssssssss) ...

VH: Basically it means that I could kick his butt and he would just have to accept it as his karma, right? Hm! 

SS: Such bull shit. People need to take responsibility for their behavior, and not come up with pathetic excuses like this.

ADD: Ha ha! Impersonal bs! Psychopaths using the philosophy to harm others. Who appointed the criminal to do harm, other than his sick whimsical mind and his perverted desire to be God? If the above was absolute true then Manu samhita, the law-book of mankind is useless.

SF: Let's say everyone is on the highest saintly martyr level; and fully, by Divine Intervention capable of accepting that - abusers taught victims something and it is great learning experience. Then, should victims ask for more of the same then, by that logic? More "education", more karma agents returning "the favor" for treatment from previous lives?

Once my friend was describing our Balkans type of regime, with fortunately no pedophilia as there were no children; but ridden with hazing, exploitation and embezzling: In this community masochists gathered to meet sadists.

It would.be really interesting hearing how this kind of preaching would go in, for example, Bosnia. In region where Bosnian Serbs kept Muslim women as sex - slaves and fathered children during Civil war years of the '90's.

Should the victims now then naturally be grateful and loving to their rapists? Maybe those paramilitary looters, pimps, baby killers and rapists should give courses - on how to be more effective - " agents of karma "? Where does this madness end with Mahatma's ideas?

SF: If there was no sanskrit, this would sound to me like indirect homage to Christian early martyr - saints.

BB: Children have had to be martyrs in Mahatma's religion.

KH: You are taking this completely out of context, he is not talking about child abuse at all. He is deeply concerned about child abuse issues in the society and advocates for changes through SABHA and with his God brothers.

BB: He does not say it does not apply to ISKCON, or children.

RD: I find the historical background for this attitude very telling.

Firstly, what he is saying verbatim reflects the words of my spiritual master, and the latter quotes Prahlad Maharaj who never retaliated and thus got darshan and protection. While this works if you are highly advanced spiritually or protected by noble ksatriyas, it won't work for most devotees in ordinary unprotected circumstances. Sadly, we need to learn how to protect ourselves through self-defence (which I teach, also for children) and being proactive (!!!) parents, uncles, sisters, etc. Since we now all are in the role of protectors, such mindset often turns out disastrous and fatal.

Ahimsa is a principle that was spread and over-emphasised by the Shramanas starting from around 700 BC to counterbalance excessive bloodshed by the Brahmanas during sacrifice and by the Ksatriyas during war. In a sense it was a necessity of time. But people thereafter often misused ahimsa principles to circumvent needed confrontation and defense, thus making the Hindus vulnerable to exploitation and occupation, of which they had plenty. 

In fact, as sad as this is, India is perhaps the classic example of a narcissist supplier (a victim of narcissists ready to supply them with food). Although it was being exploited over centuries, it hardly retaliated and excludes these chapters stealthily from their own school books. Let's ask ourselves: Why does nobody know that the tragic Hinducide by the Muslims (and Britishers) was the largest genocide ever, larger than Auschwitz and slavery of the Americans combined?

Hindus only speak of their past noble kings, but in reality their healthy defense is totally destroyed and thus they have become the perfect victims of narcissists, including abusers, of course. To reverse that conditioning requires therapy for all members and reintegration of the ksatriya culture, starting from all, with self-defence training for all, and creating deep samskaras of self-worth and resilient heroism in daily action.

And no, I am not parroting Hindu nationalism here. I'm speaking about healthy defense. Guess what you need if you don't like toxic defense? You need a healthy defense. As long as we don't cultivate healthy defense, we cultivate both a culture of abuse and a (logical) toxic nationalist response.

JP: Then why didn’t Arjun simply accept his Karma?… and relinquish the war. 

SF: Especially realtively newer Gurus have a tendency to prefer particular type of audience, while simultanesouly would rather not to interact certain other kind(s).

SD: Mahatma's wife was initiated by Dhanurdhara and still worships him as her guru. Mahatma goes with her on parikaramas and other programs where Dhanurdhara leads the group as a spiritual authority.

https://iskconleaders.com/jahnava-mataji/

Dhanurdhara was the most named child abuser in ISKCON's $15 million bankruptcy settlement to settle child abuse claims.

VC: Yup so his quoting made up quotes to make himself feel like he is on the right path with who he associates with and supports. These ppl are his path to fame adoration and distinction. He has become from a nobody one of the many in alachua to somebody (in my eyes still a nobody).

AJ: Wow I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing, it helps to make better evaluation of what's actually going on in the background with this particular high profile guru.

You mentioned some horrific abuse cases which have surfaced. Many times more would have occurred but have not surfaced yet and may never surface.

What's even more disturbing is that some top Iskcon gurus and sannyasis are supporting child abusers when they are the ones who should be making the most noise about protecting and compensating thousands of abused Iskcon children.

SA: Since when do “devotees” act as agents for “karma”. We are against suffering and causing others to suffer! Fie on them who use “karma” to justify their wicked lustful ways!

AA: Approach the one who preaches such teachings, take his money and start insulting his daughter. Will he treat you with the respect worthy of a teacher, start shouting at you that you are a bastard and should give him your property, or will he defend his daughter? 

There is such a thing as dharma, morality, evil and good and their meaning, the sense of what is right and what is wrong, this is the dharma of Vaishnavism. And Vaishnavas, like Arjuna, acted according to this sense of justice, he also fought against evil, actively // if someone experienced robbery, rape, he chased a thief, a criminal, without telling the victim that it was his karma, and considered the perpetrator as a teacher. 

You can investigate philosophically, but your main duty is to oppose evil. Perhaps the quote makes sense, but in a broader context "it is obvious that the Vaishnava culture was a culture in which evil was punished and perpetrators could not feel unpunished." Otherwise, you create a culture of evil that allows evil.

AE: It is a twisted interpretation. Show me where shastra says we shouldn't blame others for our karma. Of course we should, because it is an ongoing cycle. They are not white angels making the will of God, they are perpetrators and we are being punished at the same time. Both things are truth, but the cheap philosophy is used to cover so many rascal activities, for example, not taking care of sick fellow devotees.

AP: There was always something about this guy that irked me…and I could never quite put my finger on it. Now I know…

BW: It’s funny how child abuse “karma” diminishes after some child protection guidelines are enforced, proper training is required and background checking is instituted. If everything we experienced in Gurukula was all of our karma, then nobody would need to do any of that ever. It’s much more accurate to state that Iskcon dropped the ball and ran boarding schools without having proper qualifications and kept the Gurukulas as their lowest priority.

PD: That is correct. As soon as they were being sued for $400M, they all of a sudden started all sorts of child protection (CPO) teams etc. And that was not serious at all -- because they went on protecting Bhakti Vidya Purna swami and his entire entourage anyway. 

And they just gave me vulture glares in LA and avoided me. And at the same time -- they also started a $20,000,000 lawsuit in India -- to have the directors of a free food for children program put into jail. They spent $20,000,000 trying to stop a program that feeds kids, just after they were sued for mistreating kids here. They went to the Delhi Supreme court with this, and I helped defeat the GBC case with documents. 

And when Jayapataka asked for another $1,000,000 to continue the case, they sent Bhakti Caru here to collect more funds, and he departed from his body here. After that they seem to have lost the ability to continue their lawsuit. When Jayapataka saw me in LA, he ran at me screaming like a mad elephant, they were angry with the lawsuit, and were upset they were going to have to take measures to address it. ys pd

FR: Says who, you punk Mahatma!

JM: Did kings in Satya, Treta, and Dvarpa Yuga allow criminals to run rampant because they were agents of karma? Did Lord Rama just let Sita go because Ravana was an agent of karma? Did Krsna tell Arjuna to go home instead of fighting because Duryodhana was an agent of karma?

Asking for a friend.

PADA angel108b@yahoo.com