Thursday, January 23, 2020

Gaura Gopal Das (NZ) "PADA is Poison"


GGD: Then seek out dedicated devotees who do not gossip and only look for faults, avoid such devotees like you avoid poison. Dedicated devotees are hard to find but can name some I know like Sevananda Dasa ACBSP, Bhrigupati Dasa ACBSP. 

Look for those who repeat scripture and NOT the faults in ISKCON. 

[PADA: OK here we go again, Krishna's successor acharyas are generally defective, faulty, mundane men, full of faults. And in fact acharyas are often illicit sex debauchees. How do we know this? We cite shastra. What shastra? The Devil's Bible, what else? Hee hee! Notice that Sevananda and Bhrigupati are mentioned, but are not really advertised as the big acharyas of ISKCON. We cannot even find one of their acharyas worth honorable notice? 

An acharya is supposed to be a TATTVA DARSI, a guru, i.e. a person who has seen the truth and is therefore -- one who knows God personally. However in the Gaura Gopal parampara, their TATTVA DARSI gurus are falling into illicit sex, drugs, criminal activity and so forth. So the guru is a TATTVA DARSI, he sees God constantly, and he is thus simultaneously a falling down degraded soul. And this is REPEATING SCRIPTURE? What scripture says God's successors are often debauchees? 

OK that means they have not read the ACTUAL shastra where it says, anyone who claims acharyas are faulty and mundane men are RESIDENTS OF HELL (Narakah sah). The Gaura Gopal sampradaya says God's successor acharyas are in fact, illicit sex with men, women and children deviants, sexual predators, criminals and so forth. And this is stated in -- shastra? Nope! These people have no clue what is stated in shastra. Of course, not really rocket science here, the average Joe six pack guy on the street knows deviants are not, and were not EVER God's successors.] 

Associate with devotees who strictly chant 16 rounds a day and reads Prabhupada's Books every day And most important of all, be kind and merciful to the fallen, and NEVER taking pleasure in hearing about their fall downs to condemn them. 

[PADA: OK, so when the ISKCON GBC's false acharyas are falling down left, right and center -- no one should bother explaining to the innocent public that these bogus people who are falling down are NOT God's successors and acharyas. If we find some drunken womanizer claiming to be as good as Jesus, we should fall down at his feet, and promote worship of that person to others ourselves -- to mislead the public?  

Nope! 

We should allow the misconception that God's successor acharyas are often deviants, sexual predators, drunkards and fallen beings -- to be allowed, and we should not defend the parampara as pure?  

Nope!

We should "be merciful" to these fallen acharyas, and let them exploit ISKCON by artificially posing as messiahs and taking advantage of the financial resources of the society, if not having sexual exploiting going on as a side benefit. However, we should never "be merciful" to the people who want to worship Srila Prabhupada, those people should be banned, beaten, sued and assassinated! No mercy for them?

Nope!

No, devotees represent Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu who is the deliver of the most fallen so NEVER waste time gossiping. Seek out humble caring merciful yet strict devotee and avoid pretenders masquerading as devotees. I blocked PADA years ago because his gossip is poison. Gaura Gopala Dasa

[PADA: Saying that acharyas are not deviants is "gossip"? Or isn't that what shastra says. Is shastra -- gossip? Good point here: We have to avoid pretenders masquerading as devotees. Bad point here! We cannot warn others to avoid same. We should allow others to follow the blind, and fall into a ditch.

Still cannot figure out why we should allow the innocent to fall into the GBC's false propaganda program of saying conditioned souls are God's successors. Meanwhile, more of the GBC temples are allowing Hindu programs to take over on their property. We should not criticize the Hindu-ization of ISKCON, when Srila Prabhupada did that regularly.

So this is pretty amazing, as soon as we say (A) Deviants are not acharyas, (B) Srila Prabhupada's books should not be edited, (C) Banning, beating, molesting, suing and assassinating Vaishnavas is a severe offense, (D) Child molester gurus and their webs and nests infrastructure is bogus, (E) Srila Prabhupada complained of being poisoned, and so on ... we are speaking poison, and the defenders of this process are speaking the truth.

They are they tattva darsi sector. Really? As one ex-gurukuli reports to PADA, he has to avoid all these people to SAVE HIS OWN SOUL, because these people are DESTROYING the soul's of others, as they destroyed so many of this kuli's associates and friends. Yep, killers of the soul, as is mentioned in the Sri Isopanisad. But, heaven forbid we warn others to avoid these killers of the soul? OK then you are implicated in aiding and abetting. Anyway, not too worried here, there are alway people preaching that Krishna is a debauchee and so are His acharyas, this is nothing new.

Meanwhile, we are glad ISKCON is getting various people interested in a general way, then they can eventually find our stuff, and many are.

ys pd]


PS: Taking karma is not for neophytes. 



Krishna and the Fruit Vendor (VIDEO)


Monday, January 20, 2020

Its Mahavishnu Swami's (ISKCON) Vyasapuja (VIDEO)!




[PADA: Thanks J dasi for sending PADA this video link. You are also not alone being very disgusted how all the people in the "Harvard meeting video" were laughing and joking, while ISKCON is gradually deteriorating more and more, and is taken over by the Hinduized process. This video of Mahavishnu swami is very insane, you are correct, and who could not agree? Yep, what kind of religion would advertise this person as the "pure devotee successor to God"? And why would we equate this person to Vyasa, and give him a Vyasa puja ceremony? Good question.

Same question cannot be answered by our good pal Hanuman Croatia. He worships the "jolly swami" -- ISKCON's Sridhara Swami -- who was always laughing and joking, as the devotees were being banned, beaten, molested, sued and shot to death. And Hanuman also follows Bhakti Vikas swami, one of the ring leaders of making ISKCON a Hindu-ized process. 

And these guys are going to save us from the "ocean of death," when the mass of devotees around them are being banned, beaten, molested, sued, and assassinated? Everyone else has to drown and be beaten off the life boats, so they can hi-jack the life boats? 

Anyway, yes, it looks like these folks are going more and more bonkers as more and more of the wheels come flying off of their "conditioned souls are God's successors" out of control runaway train. I agree, this looks totally bonkers, and thus its a terrible advertisement for becoming a pure devotee of God.

I need to become a pure devotee, which is a lot of work, so I can act, look and behave like these fools? Its a bad advert for the chanting, its making the chanting of God's name into a giant clown show. Yep, another jolly swami, laughing as others are drowning. You got it! ys pd 

40% In India Will Face Water Crisis by 2030

Sunday, January 19, 2020

Martin Luther King Ratha Festival Jan 20 Los Angeles


Radio Puja Stream Service

https://www.radiopuja.com/?

Have not had time to check this out really, but supposed to have kirtanas, bhajans in the AM and PM, otherwise Bollywood during the daytime. ys pd

Srila Prabhupada's Untimely Departure (Krishna.org)

https://krishna.org/srila-prabhupadas-untimely-disappearance-update/?

[PADA: A devotee wrote to explain that the real reason some of the leaders are so upset with making "Female Diksha Gurus" is -- their Hindu support problem. The Hindus have already taken over major sectors of ISKCON, including places in Australia where they are are already giving Hindi classes. We had a big "Bhagawat Sapta" guy travelling around here in places like Atlanta etc. And lets not forget Hindu car poojas, Hindu wedding business etc. that ISKCON relies on more and more for donations.

So if the Hindus reject the GBC over their Female Diksha Gurus, and they are already in many cases the legal signers and legal directors of the ISKCON properties, then ISKCON will be lost in total. The legal signers will simply start to invite the more traditional Hindu gurus there and ISKCON will be lost, including the properties. 

And the GBC will be left in the dust. Of course that is already happening as ISKCON is morphed more and more into a Hindu-ized process. And that explains why people like Bhakti Vikas swami sets up camp with the Hindus and he avoids the West for the most part, he is part of the Hindu-ization process. 

OK so that process has already happened de facto, the GBC programs in many temples are gradually adopting Hindu festivals, Hindu speakers, Hindi classes and so on and so forth. So this devotee said the Female Diksha Guru issue is really, the final poison pill to completely ruin and eliminate ISKCON. 

This idea will poison the few faithful Hindus that are still keeping the doors open in many centers, and they will reject ISKCON and turn it over to their own programs. In other words he said, ISKCON is being poisoned with bogus siddhanta, and that has already made it very sickly and dying. And the Female Diksha Guru position might be the final poison pill the GBC gives ISKCON to kill it off completely. 

Of course we were the first to release the "poison tapes" where Srila Prabhupada himself complains of being poisoned. At the time even some of our fellow ritviks like Krishna Kant Desai, Adridharan, Kamsahanta and others vigorously stomped jack boots on me to try to halt my release of the tapes. They thought that we should allow the poison givers to remain as the leaders of the religion -- because self-evidently they never understood that if we worship Judas, the religion will die anyway. 

They said if we release the poison issue "ISKCON will lose its properties." OK but the Hindu-ized process is causing the properties to be lost anyway? So we have to prevent helping people understand the process of the poisoned root, and make some sentimental adjustments to the wilting flowers on the poisoned plant? How is that working out for these guys? 

Of course Narayan Maharaja was also spitting mad when we introduced the poison issue and he invited me over to talk about it, but left me sitting all day avoiding seeing me, because he knew I had the tape and we had conclusive evidence his GBC pals were part of the poison sabha. Another guy who thinks worship of Judas is the way forward. And that is why some Narayan people recently said PADA is like a toilet, we exposed that Narayan Maharaja is the boot licker of the Judas party of ISKCON, and they are infuriated they were exposed.  

So this devotee was saying: They first poisoned Prabhupada; Then poisoned his movement by driving out the original students; Then poisoned his gurukula children with mass molesting; Then poisoned his books by changing them, and now they want to place the final nail in the coffin and drive out the little bits and pieces of support of they get from the Hindus with their Female guru deviation. And then ISKCON will vanish in toto. And so this devotee asked me, was that the plan all along? Apparently so? ys pd



  

Saturday, January 18, 2020

Narayan Maharaja Group Equates Pure Devotees With Toilets?



Narayan Maharaja folks claim that the ritviks are worshiping:
a toilet? And this is their "rasika-ness"?


A follower of Narayan Maharaja (Ramanandha Das Madhuryam) has been sending PADA graphic photos (above) of his idea of what the process of worship of a pure devotee really is like, its like worship of a toilet. So we cannot worship a pure devotee, because that is toilet worship. Why can't we worship the pure devotee? Because! We have to worship NM's illicit sex with men, women and children guru program headed by NM's pals like Tamal instead. Who knew! Wait a minute, didn't NM's promoting the GBC's illicit sex guru program take ISKCON into the toilet? Many folks think that is what happened.

Yes, even a regular church priest (ritvik) worships Jesus and he does not worship Narayan Maharaja's GBC illicit sex deviants as their messiahs. That is why the followers of Jesus aka the USA police, FBI, courts, media etc. had to go after these bogus gurus annointed by NM in the USA, they had better discrimination than the GBC and their so-called NM shiksha gurus. 


As soon as we came out with the poison issue, Narayan Maharaja invited me to his ashram to discuss this issue, but he then refused to meet me all day and then he sneaked off the property, because he knew I had the tapes and this would make him look foolish for promoting Tamal.

Sulochana said that if GBC / Gaudiya Matha / Narayan Maharaja had supported the worship of a bucket of dog manure, then all the banning, beating, molesting, lawsuits and murders would not have happened, because a bucket of dog stools does not harm anyone. However, folks like Narayan Maharaja are not advanced enough to promote worship a bucket of dogs stools. 

And in point of fact, Sulochan was killed by the bogus gurus supported by NM, so he was correct. NM also supported the idea we have to offer bhogha to these GBC guys, so now, no one was eating prasadam anymore, you cannot offer bhogha to a conditioned soul. Yep, as soon as we said there is banning, beating, molesting, lawsuits and murders, Narayan Maharaja said who cares, these people are ritvik poison, so he was demonizing us to defend the regime.

NM supported the worship of the illicit sex acharyas, and we had to have them sued for $400,000,000 in Dallas, yep NM was in Dallas hanging out with Tamal. He loved those guys. Notice that NM is hugging the pedophile guru Kirtanananda.



Hugging Pedophile Acharyas, Discrediting Real Acharyas

And at the time NM knew this KS man had orchestrated murders ... But he does not have a spare moment to talk to us? Well yep, we do not worship deviants as acharyas. NM is hanging out with Tamal in Dallas, and their program had to be sued in Dallas, it all fits. Why does NM support such anal sex guru programs? Anyway this is good progress, they have no intelligent reply and never had any the whole time.

Worship of a pure devotee is like worship of a toilet, told ya that is what Narayan Maharaja program was saying all along! Of course we can worship his anal sex epidemic guru program, that is the program he promotes instead. Why do Narayan Maharaja followers think worship of a pure devotee is like worship of a toilet, and we need to worship their illicit sex acharyas process instead? 

And why has Jadurani, Jnana das, Tripurari swami, Jagat Guru swami, Pancadravida swami, Bhagwan das, the GBC, the Gaudiya Matha, and all sorts of these assembled people gone along with the idea that our idea of worship of a pure devotee is some sort of evil "ritvik" deviation, and we need to worship their illicit sex deviants acharya process instead of pure devotees? 

Worship of a pure devotee is equal to worship of a toilet, then they wonder why ISKCON went into the toilet? Because they crammed ISKCON into the toilet, and unfortunately their idea that worship of a pure devotee is like worship of a toilet means that Srila Prabhupada is correct, the Gaudiya Matha promoted false acharyas because they are envious of the actual acharyas. Anyway, we told you that NM hated to see pure devotees being worshiped, and now we find that his followers think pure devotees are equal to toilets. Told ya!

And then we have the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / HKC Jaipur folks who want us to listen to GBC / Gaudiya Math / Radhanath lovers like Bhakta das, who is also a big fan of the idea that the ritviks are bogus because they are not worshiping all these deviants, and they worship a pure devotee instead. 

To Sum! Where do people go when they say worship of pure devotees is like worship of a toilet? They go straight into Yamaraja's toilet, this is stated everywhere in shastra. Anyway I am glad they are finally openly admitting they think pure devotee's worship is equal to worship of a toilet, they should just be honest and I applaud them for finally doing that. Its an admission of their crime. I like the person who writes to PADA that we should call Narayan Maharaja "Toilet pada," sums it all up nicely.  

ys pd /// angel108b@yahoo.com

Thursday, January 16, 2020

RE: Integrating Gays Into ISKCON (Basu Ghosh)

Text PAMHO:31873566 (82 lines) From: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) Date: 15-Jan-20 13:18 -0600 Bcc: ICC (Indian Continental Committee) [9231] 

Subject: 

SABHA to recommend Gay Culture be integrated into ISKCON 
- article ------------------------------------------------------------ 

Home Base: ISKCON Baroda Camp: Frisco (Dallas), Texas, USA 

Dear Maharajas and Prabhus, Namonamaha. Jaya Srila Prabhupada! Just now I received a very disconcerting letter from Pancharatna Prabhu, the TP of ISKCON Jaipur, and the Chairman of the IIAC (ISKCON India Advisory Committee, constituted by the ISKCON India Governing Bureau). The letter has been uploaded to the internet, here: 


Here is what appears there: ########## 

BEGIN QUOTED ARTICLE ########## 

SABHA to recommend Gay Culture be integrated into ISKCON BY: 

PANCARATNA DAS (JAIPUR, INDIA) ON: JANUARY 15, 2020 IN: 

HOMOSEXUALITY, ISKCON 

Now the latest topic of the SABHA [Spiritual Advisors Bhagavata Assembly] is integrating LGBT. Lesbians homosexuals bisexuals and transgender people into ISKCON. The SABHA are discussing and will work on a proposal to the GBC at a later stage. 

Of course not many will maintain celibacy and will need to get married, so a same sex marriage proposal will soon follow. So far men, women, gurus, and Sannyasa have written, all approving the idea and encouraging. Only I have written in the negative. Seems there are some that are intent on splitting ISKCON into further denominations. 

Maybe ISKCON West and ISKCON East. It’s going that way. How can you get a win win without compromising everything. I feel we need to make a strong stand here with one voice. 

Your servant, Pancaratna Dasa President, 

ISKCON Jaipur 

ISKCON India representative on SABHA 

########## END QUOTED ARTICLE ########## 

This, and the resolution already passed by the GBC authorizing female diksha gurus in ISKCON, are both blatant violations of the vedic shastras concept of the role of women in society and homosexuality, and what Srila Prabhupada instructed on the role of women in society, his instruction that women cannot be diksha gurus, and his time and again condemnation of homosexuality. 

Our leadership is emulating the role of the reform movements in Protestant Christianity, and Reform Judaism - that are simply put, "the religions of the meat eaters" (Srila Prabhupada told me these words at Vrindavan on a morning walk during September 1975). 

It is my hope that you [from a letter sent separately to senior sannyasis] will speak out against this before the upcoming GBC AGM next month. My most humble advice is that you write personally to each and every GBC member (some of you are GBC members) stating your opposition to these actions. 

Hope this meets you well. dasanudas, 

Basu Ghosh Das Facebook: 
Basu Ghosh Das Skype: 
Basu Ghosh Das WhatsApp: +91-94260-54308 

P.S. Seems that the GBC created the "Sabha" as a "tool" to steer ISKCON clearly into the "liberal, feminist, egalitarian", camp. And we are paying for the Sabha - Rs. 7,80,000/- (from the GBC annual budget) through our GBC fees... 

--------------------------------------

Join the discussion…

Amara Das Wilhelm: Just follow Srila Prabhupada's own example and everything will be fine. Srila Prabhupada was very kind and accepting of his gay, lesbian and transgender disciples. He was never nasty toward them and he never kicked them away. He encouraged everyone to follow the principles but if they were unable then they could live outside the temple, render service and remain a part of the congregation. I hope the GBC reaches a wise and compassionate decision in this regard. ISKCON should never tolerate or allow any minority group to be mistreated, abused or rejected by its members and centers.

Raviraj Subhash Gattani • 8 hours ago • 

Why should one need to be included. Iskcon is already open to all. By including what it means is right to positions. But positions are by qualifications, and following 4 regs is one important qualification for most positions. So a class of people who are defined by their way of seeing sex are by default unacceptable for positions in Iskcon. 


Sex life is only meant for procreation, IDEALLY, and one needs to at least accept this idea to have a position in Iskcon. As it is, even in India we are finding it difficult to make sure that those who are not following purity don't get in positions, and this is with conventional married people who believe in believing in sastra. How are u going to monitor this new inclusion, a class which is defined to encourage sex for needs other than procreating.

Although the author opposes this inclusion, I disagree with the statement:
'Of course not many will maintain celibacy and will need to get married, so same sex marriage proposal will soon follow' 
because marriage is not for sex, but for procreating. Others can marry, but then they are not following 4 regs. 

Marriage or no marriage, celibacy is must, unless for procreation. This is all ideal. Of course not many can be ideal, but then why they want positions? Iskcon programs - morning program, festivals, public feasts, even chanting - is open to all. If someone is having social opposition, they have to address the problem without watering down the philosophy. 

Iskcon philosophy cannot be changed for individual issues. Everyone faces social issues or some kind of opposition; you cannot play with spiritual principles for social needs. Social correctness will give nothing. Spiritual correctness will bring all kinds of welfare - social, emotional, economical.

Basically the authorities need to be detached, that's all. Everything is clear. What's lacking is detachment and faith in the philosophy's teachings and instructions. Without proper authority nothing can be achieved. HDG wanted brahmanas to be the authority for society ...

Protest Kumar Raviraj Subhash Gattani • an hour ago

Sir, if you are celibate or a Baal brahmachari, not that everyone be a naistika brahmachari like you. Mr pure, this class is not defined by their sexual orientation. Yes according to the shastras sex life is only for procreation, we do respect that but plz check urself once whether you have followed it in ur life or not Mr pure -- then talk. Preaching is very easy but practising is very difficult. Purity is must we do agree but I am asking you have you used ur sexual power " only " for begetting children then you plz preaching here or else we too Know what happens in your life too.......we respect Prabhupad and his teachings .

Raviraj Subhash Gattani • 9 hours ago

The links given by G Kesava Das in his comments are all either Wikipedia articles or a book by a non-devotee. No bonafide reference in any of the links.


Sri Niketan • 9 hours ago

We need to support Pancaratna Prabhu on this. We need to now speak in a unified voice as he said. Best for ISKCON India to throw out the GBC and let the Bureau run India.

Its simple. Srila Prabhupada started ISKCON and made it to be run according to his books and teachings. His books and teachings condemn Homosex. Of course homosexuals are welcome to join in but not practice any of their 'activities'. If some ISKCON members want to integrate Gayism in ISKCON then that is illegal and they will have no way to manipulate Guru, sadhu and sastra or Srila Prabhupada's teachings to fit it in. So they either leave ISKCON or agree to be called deviants. If they agree to be called deviants then they should be thrown out of ISKCON as why should deviants run ISKCON?

Protest Kumar Sri Niketan • an hour ago

His books and teachings condemn sex life other than procreation .,......... They won't support the homosexual activity. As an uttama adhikari he loved everyone ....,....... If you have used ur sexual power only for begetting children then you plz talk because you are perfect ..........if not don't lecture here , because his teachings are against sex other than procreation where in you also fall under this category .

G Keshava Das • a day ago


https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

While I am not a proponent of any form of homosexuality I would suggest that devotees educate themselves about the role that such minor sinful behaviour played in Indian society since time immemorial. Both hetero and homo sexuals sins are described in the sastras. But whereas in Mleccha sastras, like the Bible, homosexual sins are considered as cardinal or major sins, in the Vedic sastras they are considered as minor sins. The major sexual sins described in Vedic sastras are heterosexual because of the possibility of creation of varna sankara or unwanted progeny (see Gita 1.42).


Please read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

The Arthashastra, an ancient Indian treatise on statecraft, mentions a wide variety of sexual practices which, whether performed with a man or a woman, were sought to be punished with the lowest grade of punishment / fine. While homosexual intercourse was not sanctioned, it was treated as a very minor offence, and several kinds of heterosexual intercourse were punished more severely.


Sex between non-virgin women incurred a small fine, while homosexual intercourse between men could be made up for merely with a bath with one's clothes on, and a penance of "eating the five products of the cow and keeping a one-night fast" – the penance being a replacement of the traditional concept of homosexual intercourse resulting in a loss of caste.

For Further information about sexual life in Ancient India Vols 1 & 2 people can 


read: https://archive.org/details...
and: Vol 2: https://archive.org/details...

Of course some attitudes changed with the coming of the Mughal and British conquests and rule and even recently we see the Supreme Court of India ruling to legalize homosexuality:

On 24 August 2017, India's Supreme Court gave the country's LGBT community the freedom to safely express their sexual orientation. Therefore, an individual's sexual orientation is protected under the country's Right to Privacy law. However, the Supreme Court did not directly overturn any laws criminalizing same-sex relationships.

On 6 September 2018, consensual gay sex was legalised by India's Supreme Court.

Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC), dating back to 1861, makes sexual activities "against the order of nature" punishable by law and carries a life sentence.The law replaced the variety of punishments for Zina (unlawful intercourse) mandated in the Mughal empire's Fatawa-e-Alamgiri, these ranged from 50 lashes for a slave, 100 for a free infidel, to death by stoning for a Muslim. Similarly the Goa Inquisition once prosecuted the capital crime of sodomy in Portuguese India, but not lesbian acts.

There have also always been homosexuals in ISKCON, and during the time of Srila Prabhupada this was dealt with in a similar way as under the Clinton Administration's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy for gays in the US military.
So just like in India, ISKCON today finds itself having to speak more openly about this subject. Espcially now that it is legal in many countries including India.

Hari Bhakti Vilasa 1.200 states that the Guru has to examine the potential disciple and understand their sexuality apart from other qualifications when deciding what mantra to initiate them into.

Raviraj Subhash Gattani G Keshava Das • 9 hours ago

The links given by G Kesava Das in his comments are all either Wikipedia articles or a book by non-devotee. No bonafide reference in any of the links.

Ludovico Sforza Raviraj Subhash Gattani • 6 hours ago

As may have noticed by now that GK is a Kali chela, posing as a devotee who wants to sew chaos in Vaisnavism. Everything he writes has to be double and tripled checked as he is a kutarki.

Protest Kumar Ludovico Sforza • an hour ago


How can you say he's kalicela ..... don't judge ..... after all it's a virtual platform how can judge people in a discussion ...,.......no one can create chaos in vaishnavisam like you with ur judgmental nature ............ One should also check ur statements thousand times because subtle hate is there in ur comments...,..you can't generalise things. Purity is must to get out of this material world.............no matter one is homo , hetero or bi


[PADA: Basu Ghosh is actually arguing with his own shadow here. He all along said that the leaders of ISKCON are diksha GURUS, aka Krishna's successors. Now he is saying Krishna's successors are speaking bogus things. How is it that Krishna's successors are bogus and Basu Ghosh is bona fide? 

And this is all part of the whole giant dog and pony circus act of folks like: Gaura Govinda maharaja, Rocana, Bhakti Vikas swami, Torben, Kailash, Hanuman Croatia, Tripurari swami, Narayan Maharaja, the GBC, the SAC, the SABHA, the Bureau, and maybe hundreds of other folks, who are all advertising that they are now the senior advisors to the ISKCON GBC guru successors to GOD ALMIGHTY. 

Thus! They are all offering admonition, chastisement, correction, and general fix-it repair advice to the (alleged) messiah successors to God. Why would God's successors need this lot to give them advice and correction? So this proves that they all think God's successors are faulty, defective, conditioned beings who need to be: voted in, voted out, corrected, censured, advised, chastised, monitored for deviations, suspended, removed, excommunicated, and maybe have the cops called to stop them from criminal behaviors. That is how we treat God's successor gurus?

Wait a minute, how did all these little pipsqueaks self-advertised advisors telescope themselves to become the higher authority than GOD's guru successors? Or are we right to say, these gurus are bogus, and not actually God's successors, they are being falsely advertised as such? So now we have the problem of these false messiahs voting in more and more deviations, and nothing can be done because, no one is supposed to question the guru. 

Ooops, unless they are not really gurus? Why aren't they just saying hey, these guys are doing all these bogus things because PADA is right, they are not gurus, and we need to re-establish Srila Prabhupada as the guru. Anyway, this is all a sign the cult melt down is getting hotter and hotter as the melting down gets worse and worse. ys pd]

Wednesday, January 15, 2020

Tripurari Swami's Homosexuality Thesis

https://harmonist.us/2014/05/homosexuality-and-scripture/?

PADA: It is amazing to us that so many ISKCON devotees have signed up to promote the homosexual agenda, which seems to have severely impacted ISKCON in a negative way. In any case, it is illicit sex and that is not something we should be encouraging for leaders or official members of the society, rather that should be something that should be done in the "fringe" community and not the active leaders and participants of the formal religion. Even in world history there has really been hardly any official religions that encouraged homosexuality, as Tripurari himself says, this is all being done now in modern times. 

Then again I remember when Tripurari was begging people like Kirtanananda to get a guru certificate. As we can see from many examples, a number of "senior Prabhupada devotees" went along with the idea that (A) Srila Prabhupada is Krishna's successor and, (B) the 11, including some people with homosexual tendencies, are also meant to be worshiped as Krishna's successors. And Tripurari's shiksha guru Sridhara Maharaja promoted homosexual acharyas after 1936 and again after 1977, with dire consequences.

Homosexuals in the regular society themselves do not appear to be a big problem. There are lots of them, and they rarely cause serious problems for others. The problem for ISKCON is -- when that agenda is juxtaposed into their spiritual society especially as leaders if not gurus, and when their agenda is even worshiped as God's successors. Then there are some major problems, as we have all witnessed in spades. And some recent expose books on the Catholic Church claim there is a homosexual agenda in their leadership circle which is causing mayhem in their religion. 

Even ordinary people sometimes write to PADA and ask us, how come homosexuals became worshiped as gurus there, and they have been given so must adoration in the ISKCON society? And none of the GBC leaders has a good explanation for why they buried a homosexual / sexual predator in a samadhi? 

And another devotee writes to say he is astonished that the Harvard meeting would have ISKCON leaders who have promoted their illicit sex guru process acting as big authorities there for that type meeting. Anyway, Tripurari is one of these people who helps water down the standards for rank and file devotees, and acharyas, and this is why Srila Prabhupada said his God brothers could do a lot of harm to his mission. 

Tripurari's former secretary told PADA that he challenged Tripurari about his initiating so many gay disciples. And apparently Tripurari said he needs homosexuals as his disciples because otherwise he would have hardly any. And that is also why some people ask me, how come these ex-ISKCON leaders can hardly build up anything on their own after they left ISKCON? It seems they have watered down the process and they cannot attract hardly anyone? Apparently so!

ys pd        

Tuesday, January 14, 2020

Anniversary of ISKCON's Molester Messiahs Process? (Harvard Video)




The ISKCON GBC and their spokesmen like Jayadvaita swami say God's successors (aka gurus / messiahs / residents of heaven etc.) are often fallen if not engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children. And then they wonder why the religion has been turned into a ghost town? 

Why has hardly no one ever figured out, God's successors / gurus / acharyas / messiahs are not ever debauchees, in any bona fide religion? Here is the real issue they seem to overlook: child molesters, sexual predators, drunkards, drug addicts, criminals, orchestrators of mass child abuse and molesting, orchestrators of murders of dissenters, porno swamis etc. ARE NOT, WERE NOT and COULD NOT HAVE BEEN God's successors. Nor could such a group "2/3 show of hands" vote in more of God's successors. ys pd

Making More Srila Prabhupada Disciples



This is Senior Devotee Tamal krsna das software engineer M Tech. He is an Ex Harikesh das disciple. He has now accepted Srila Prabhupada as his eternal guru after reading lA77, having all of his doubts cleared and becoming fully convinced of Srila Prabhupada as the true rightful guru for everyone in ISKCON.
He is now currently employed at a data systems company as system administrator. In the year 1994 he came in touch with Iskcon through the iskcon youth forum after which he had taken his spiritual initiation in 1994 and subsequently his Brahmin in 1997. On the year 1998 his unauthorised so called guru fell down.

As a result he was asked to take reinitiation from another GBC guru, but became confused on the matter. And around that time the ritvik system of initiation also had surfaced. And as a result he could not decide on the issue. 

In the meanwhile he continued his spiritual life, following strictly all of Srila Prabhupada’s instruction. In the year 2001 he got married and He now has son. His wife too has accepted Srila Prabhupada as her spiritual master. She too is highly educated works as a school teacher.

They are both very enthusiastic and are planning to open an ISKM temple in their area soon. He is very inspired and wants to help everyone understand the true process of initiation, and to be fired up for preaching. Kindly everyone help please pray to Srila Prabhupada and Krishna to grant him mercy in all of his  endeavours. Jaya haribol.
 

Amish Community Hiding Horrifying Abuse? (Yahoo News)

Monday, January 13, 2020

Basu Ghosh / Pancharatna / "Questioning if we can appoint any gurus"

http://vaishnaviministry.org/na-temple-presidents-resolution-about-vaishnavi-diksa-gurus/?

Text PAMHO:31868609 (1106 lines) From: Internet: "Pancharatna das" <prd@pamho.net

Date: 13-Jan-20 18:45 +0530 

Reference: Text PAMHO:31862281 by Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) To: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) [204661] 

Cc: ICC (Indian Continental Committee) [9228], 
Prabhupada Disciples [21958], 
"Abhirama dasa" <abhiram.acbsp@gmail.com
Cc-For: ISKCON India (news & discussion) 

Subject: Re: My response to your comments Abhiram Prabhu's article ------------------------------------------------------------ 

Basu Ghosh: Dandavat pranams. Srila Prabhupada kijaya. 

First, I thank you for your lengthy response, and I apologize that I cannot elaborate as much as you have. I also thank you for considering me your friend even though we disagree. I believe that, somehow or other we have to learn to argue and debate while maintaining respect and friendship as one family by the grace of Srila Prabhupada. I'm going to respond only to some of what you said due to a lack of time on my part. To make it easier, I am extracting those sections that I'm responding to and leaving the others. 

Why has the word "vaishnavi" has been introduced, changing it from  "female"?  

My contention is that the terminology has been changed to sanitize the issue, to make ISKCON females seem somehow equal to men. My choice is based on honoring the frequent distinction that Srila Prabhupada made between his female disciples and women in general: *“These women are not ordinary women. They are preachers. They are Vaishnavas. By their association one becomes a Vaishnava.” (Srila Prabhupada, morning walk, March 27, 1974)

Pancaratna das: * I believe that the term Vaishnavi honors both the spiritual equality and the difference between men and women devotees. On the other hand, Srila Prabhupada used the term Vaishnava to indicate devotees of both genders, so I can also see the value of simply saying female diksa guru. 

And, I do believe that there is fundamental spiritual equality between ISKCON men and women and that ISKCON women can be and often are just as spiritually advanced as ISKCON men. In his purport in Chaitanya Charitamrita, Adi-lila, Chapter 17, verse 137, Prabhupada refers to Madhavi Devi, one of "the three and half" most confidential, and thus most exalted devotees, of Mahaprabhu, as "a woman". 

Here is what Prabhupada wrote in the purport: "In the Antya-lila of Caitanya-caritamrta, chapter two, verses 104-106, there is a description of Madhavidevi. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu considered her one of the maidservants of Srimati Radharani. Within this world, Caitanya Mahaprabhu had three and a half very confidential devotees. The three were Svarupa Gosasi, Sri Ramananda Raya and Sikhi Mahiti, and Sikhi Mahiti’s sister, Madhavidevi, being a woman, was considered the half. 

Thus it is known that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu had three and a half confidential  devotees." 

This and the quotation you have offered regarding Suniti and Dhruva can be interpreted in various ways. Personally, I always seek to find a way to understand things holistically so that it all comes together. Thus, this particular quotation can be interpreted that Madhavi devi, being a woman, could only half associate with Mahaprabhu, whereas the others could be with Him 24 hours a day. 

So, if your point is that there must be some gender discrimination when it comes to male-female interaction than I agree. Just as in the purport to SB 4.12.32 - that you so kindly did not neglect to mention in your comments - Prabhupada refers to Suniti as "being a woman". 

So I contend that the language of the original proposition, "female diksha guru" used back during 2005 and 2009 by the GBC and its SAC, is just fine! My point is that using the words "female", and "woman", does not diminish the position of the above mentioned vaishnavis one iota! 

In fact, using the word vaishnavi itself indicates gender discrimination, and not gender equality, since it is a feminine word. I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I believe most devotees in favor of female devotees (Vaishnavis) initiating agree that some gender discrimination is required in a healthy society. In particular, there is the special right of women to be protected. 

And, as I believe you've pointed out later, as a general rule, women should ideally be supported as dependents and not, by force or by choice, have to compete with men in material society. Unfortunately, achieving this ideal remains a challenge on account of so many factors. 

[PADA: Right, most of the original rank and file female devotees of ISKCON left the society and often have had to fend for themselves in the material world. 
Some had to live in a car with their babies, some died without getting medical help, and so on and so forth. 

In sum, ISKCON has had a terrible track record of caring for its women and children dependents. Making women into gurus without clearing up this record sounds like another disaster waiting to happen. 

And! Making female diksha gurus -- with the provision that their support will come primarily from their families -- is already a bogus proposal since the men gurus simply exploit the society with their "guru daksine" process. 

That the women gurus will not be allowed to have that facility, and the women gurus will have to fend for themselves to get financial support from their children or ex-husbands, is not giving them equal financial status at all. 

Its giving them a token, hoping to appease them for all the other injustices the women had to endure. None of the men gurus have had to get support from their families. So, you get the same job as the men, but with none of the perks and benefits the men get. And this is equality? Maybe not. Its really another cheating process. Will they fool a few women into being their gurus with this less than equal bargain? Well maybe, but don't count on a lot of women signing up if they have to prove they can finance themselves.]  

Now, your argument, and I quote: "my personal opinion that these statements should be given the most weight", appears to me to be a feeble attempt to deny many, many other statements of both vedic shastras and Srila Prabhupada on the role of women in society, and the question of whether a woman can be a diksha guru." 

I don't deny any other statements. I simply have a different interpretation than you do. You referred to SB 4.12.32, but did not present the actual words in Prabhupada purport: "Actually, Dhruva Maharaja’s mother, Suniti, was his patha-pradarsaka-guru. Patha-pradarsaka-guru means “the guru, or the spiritual master, who shows the way.” Such a guru is sometimes called siksa-guru. Although Narada Muni was his diksa-guru (initiating spiritual master), Suniti, his mother, was the first who gave him instruction on how to achieve the favor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. 

It is the duty of the siksa-guru or diksa-guru to instruct the disciple in the right way, and it depends on the disciple to execute the process. According to sastric injunctions, there is no difference between siksa-guru and diksa-guru, and generally the siksa-guru later on becomes the diksa-guru. Suniti, however, being a woman, and specifically his mother, could not become Dhruva Maharaja’s diksa-guru." 

In this purport, Srila Prabhupada deals directly with the various types of gurus, and then specifically instructs "being a woman, Suniti could NOT be Dhurva's diksha guru". Kindly consider Srila Prabhupada's use of the words, "according to sastric injunctions", which prove he was instructing his disciples and readers in  "the here and now", and wasn't explaining this as "something from a remote era in the past", one of the misleading pro-FDG arguments. 

I cannot agree that the term "sastric injunctions" necessarily means for all time. There are many examples of sastric injunctions which are only applicable according to certain ages. But in this case, I agree that the statement "According to sastric injunctions, there is no difference between siksa-guru and diksa-guru, and generally the siksa-guru later on becomes the diksa-guru." is applicable now. 

However, there are numerous ways to interpret Suniti's disqualification: 1) mothers do not initiate their children 2) women do not initiate ksatriyas 3) women in the satya yuga do not initiate 4) it is a general statement not an absolute one etc. 

Since we know that Jahnava devi and other Vaishnavis have initiated disciples, then we have the problem of reconciling this statement with that fact. This is where different interpretations come into play. It's very sad, I feel, that this direct instruction on this very topic by Srila Prabhupada is pooh-poohed, and that Srila Prabhupada's discussion with Prof. O'Connell, is given more weight, more importance than what Srila Prabhupada wrote in this purport. "Books are the basis", and "according to shastric injunction" refers directly to the higher authority of books - shastras! 

Here we get to what I believe is the essence of our problem - hermeneutics "the theory and methodology of interpretation,". When I wrote that the conversations with Prof O'Connell and Atreya Rsi prabhu should be given the most weight I mean that I believe we should take these very explicitly direct responses to a direct question as the guideline for interpreting other statements that are relevant but are not direct responses to a question. 

Also, taking guidance from Yudhisthira's statement: dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam mahajano yena gatah sa panthah I believe that Srila Prabhupada's direct response should be given the most weight. This type of convoluted logic makes me - and many others - feel that the non-vedic concepts of feminism and the popular liberal leftist struggle in Western society for gender equality is more important in the minds of the majority of GBC members, and the pro-FDG devotees, than what Srila Prabhupada taught! 

Of course you have a right to your opinion. But how to interpret "what Srila Prabhupada taught" is exactly what is in contention. I have quoted two explicit responses to the question of whether women devotees can initiate. And there are others, quoted in the SAC paper that support the principle that women devotees can initiate, But , there is this one statement regarding Suniti that appears to say that her being a women disqualified her to initiate. So we need some way to reconcile these two statements.

I have offered some possible interpretations of the Suniti statement that do this. What are your interpretations of Srila Prabhupada's answer to Atreya Rsi and Prof O'Connell on the topic? Here is what Prabhupada taught about the role of women in society, from his purport in Srimad Bhagavatam 4.18.3 (a very similarly written purport appears in Bhagavad-gita 16.7): 

Vedic civilization takes advantage of the perfect knowledge presented in the  Vedas and presented by great sages and brahmanas for the benefit of human  society. Vedic injunctions are known as shruti, and the additional supplementary presentations of these principles, as given by the great sages, are known as smriti. They follow the principles of Vedic instruction. 

Human society should take advantage of the instructions from both shruti and smriti. If one wants to advance in spiritual life, he must take these instructions and follow the principles. In Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, Srila Rupa Gosvami says that if one poses himself as advanced in spiritual life but does not refer to the shrutis and smritis he is simply a disturbance in society. 

[PADA: OK but the whole GBC process of making acharyas by "2/3 show of hands votes" is not found anywhere in shastra?]

One should follow the principles laid down in shrutis and smritis not only in one’s spiritual life but in material life as well. As far as human society is concerned, it should follow the Manu-smriti as well, for these laws are given by Manu, the father of mankind. 

In the Manu-smriti it is stated that a woman should NOT be given independence, but should be given protection by her father, husband and elderly sons. In all circumstances a woman should remain dependent upon some guardian. 

[PADA: That is a good question, we find that recently a woman was cheated out of her life savings to buy a bogus Mayapura apartment. And she has not got much relief from the GBC leaders and she says she has been sleeping in her vehicle being financially destitute, and its getting colder and colder in her vehicle with winter approaching. The cops are harassing her etc. She asks PADA, "Who do we write to in this GBC group anyway, no one seems to care"?]

Prabhupada: If one can remain without marriage, that is the first class. 

Rupanuga: Women also? 

Prabhupada: Women also. What is the use of this material husband? Make Krishna husband. Krishna’s prepared to become everything – love Him as husband, love Him as son, love Him as friend. (Room conversation, July 6, 1976, Washington, DC) --end-- and -quote-- 

If one becomes Krishna conscious, then he [she] doesn’t require husband. He [she] does not require. He ... She knows that ‘Krishna is my protector. Why shall I artificially seek after father or ...?’ And what protection for a few days either the father or the son or the husband may give? Real protection is Krishna. (Room conversation, January 7, 1977, Bombay)

--end--

BASU GHOSH: And there are many instances of how he engaged his female disciples that indicate that being under the shelter of one's guru meets the criteria for not being independent. I believe that Srila Prabhupada is giving us a nuanced view of what it means for a Vaishnavi not to be independent. 

Pancharatna Prabhu, with all due respect, and I count you as a friend - and I am by no means "the perfect person": you and the pro-FDG faction devotees have chosen to ignore the importance of the injuctions of vedic shastras as the final authority on matters of dharma, as Srila Prabhupada taught herein above, and in so many other places. 

I am not ignoring them. I'm trying to understand them through the lens of all of Srila Prabhupada's instructions both written, verbal and by practical example. Just consider how he used this purport to describe the vedic concept of the role of women - and he strongly endorsed it - and how authorizing female diksha gurus contradicts the concept that he endorsed! 

Srila Prabhupada taught that women are to be dependent on men. Some pro-FDG devotees, obviously influenced by feminism argue that in modern ISKCON society men have been abusive, and so these instructions do not apply. 

[PADA: Wow, so the ISKCON men gurus have been abusive to women, which begs the question, how are they gurus? And why do they keep saying gurus are deviants, gurus are abusive, gurus are fallen etc.?]

This argument is quite popular among a section of our devotees, who invoke it  when these instructions of Srila Prabhupada are pointed out. Its being used as an excuse to reject what Prabhupada taught, and what vedic shastras teach. 

Pancaratna das: The authority to instruct someone on the science of Krishna is not limited to men. Also, women are natural authorities in the family, particularly for their children. So, I question whether this is a blanket statement. It needs elucidation by looking at its context and other dimensions, IMO And in the Narada Pancharatra it is written: (Bharadvaja Samhita, Narada Pancaratra, 1.42) 

"Even then, a woman, a shudra, and an antyaja can never act as initiating gurus, nor can anyone who is accused of a great sin or is fallen. And an aspiring disciple who is already accomplished in detachment (akami) should never accept a guru who is infected with material desires." 

[PADA: OK so their men gurus are falling into illicit sex with men, women and children and that is proof -- their gurus are not infected with material desires? Why are they promoting people with material desires as gurus?]

Also, whichever way we interpret it, even to the extent that it indicates only the most advanced maha-bhagavata devotee then there is the question who is the judge? Our system of guru-disciple relationship is that there is mutual testing between the two. So, is it not up to the disciple to judge if their guru is on this platform?

[PADA: The disciples are told that the local guru is the diksha guru and if they disagree they are not allowed to participate. For example Jayapataka is the zonal guru of Mayapura, anyone who does not accept that he is a pure devotee guru is banished from the community. There is no mutual test, you have to accept the local diksha guru voted in by the GBC for the most part. Wow, so we are going to make a pile of gurus, without checking their qualifications, because "who is the judge"? Well apparently, its not the GBC!] 

Srila Prabhupada, and our acharyas would have taught us, time and again, that the role of women in society was to be diksha guru, if they had intended it to be. 

[PADA: And he would also have said he wanted persons prone to illicit sex with men, women and children to be acharyas if he had wanted that to be?] 

But no, there no extensive record of any such instructions, and thus there is a great difference of opinion on this issue amongst ISKCON devotees. 

> > One can just as easily say that if Srila Prabhupada and our acharyas did NOT want women to be guru they would have taught us "time and again". The vast majority of statements regarding who can be guru are gender neutral. Similarly, Srila Prabhupada, and our previous acharyas would have taught us - but did not - that a guru (in our case Srila Prabhupada) could continue to give initiation after his disappearance. They did not. 

> > Here is the underlying issue. We have failed to go deeply into the topic of stri-dharma and establish a comprehensive understanding of where men and women in ISKCON should have equal rights and where they should be different. I believe that Srila Prabhupada taught and encouraged both equal rights and roles on the basis of spiritual equality and different rights and roles on the basis of material inequality. 

However, in my opinion, there is much work to be done to understand where to apply spiritual equality and where and how to adjust roles for women in our society according to their material inequality. I believe that the role of initiating guru is a spiritual role that should not be absolutely constrained by one's material situation. But, I also understand that there could be many material situations for both men and women that must be considered when establishing a guru disciple relationship. 

For example, perhaps sannyasis or brahmacaris should not accept young, unmarried women as their disciples. This might be a better engagement for mature grihasthas or vanaprasthas, male or female. At the same time, in the absence of any direct instructions on this, I believe the best we can do is to come up with good guidelines and leave it up to the individuals to decide for themselves what is appropriate. 

I'm going to skip ahead, as I don't have time to go point by point on what you have written. suffice it to say that I agree with you that we have not found deep understanding in our Society of the roles of women and we should be giving this much more attention. 

> > And, generally the siksa guru becomes the diksa guru. So, what does the siksa disciple of a Vaishnavi do having developed the siksa relationship? Does she or he simply take diksa from someone else as a formality? What is your opinion on this? Your next section deals with the societal roles: Women are, according to vedic shastras, to be the servants of their husbands, and to engage in household affairs, as we see from the lives of the "great women" mentioned in the vedic literatures such as Kunti, Draupadi, Gandhari, Sita, Anasuya, the dvijapatnis, the vrajagopis, the wife of Sandipani Muni, etc., etc. 

"Thus it is most regrettable when a woman becomes the executive head instead of a lion like king. In such a situation the people are considered very unfortunate." 

> > "Most regrettable", Srila Prabhupada remarked, and yet these words will be  labelled as "sexist" by feminists and egalitarians. 

>> You include leadership services in ISKCON the same category as those in general society. I'm not convinced that this is correct. But I believe we should go deeper on this issue. 

> > There are SO MANY other quotes from Srila Prabhupada about the role of  women in society that the pro-FDG devotees ignore for the reason that doing so will easily defeat the egalitarian / feminist and thus revisionist purposes that they champion. 

> > And there are many quotes and examples from Srila Prabhupada's interactions with his female disciples that indicate a different perspective for Vaishnavis than a simple feminist / anti-feminist dichotomy. I disagree with your labels of "egalitarian / feminist" . First I question why we should not be egalitarian in the spiritual sphere. And, in respect of feminism, what's at issue here is not equal rights for men and women across the board as in contemporary feminism. 

It is a question of which rights are equal and which are different. I believe that, though you are certainly anti-feminist, you are not a misogynist and in favor of disrespect and oppression of women. Rather I accept that you sincerely want what is best for both men and women to advance spiritually and promote a healthy, happy society for everyone. 

I hope that you can see that those who disagree with your particular interpretation of how to do this are also sincere. 

> Anuttama Prabhu, our communications minister, can organize interfaith dialogues at Tirupati and Chennai, but the GBC - till today - has ignored the request of the ISKCON India Governing Bureau [a resolution to that effect was passed at Pune, during February 2019, and sent to the GBC EC] for a dialogue on this FDG subject! Why has this been ignored? Because such a dialogue would most probably not serve the purpose of establishing gender equality - feminism and egalitarianism - in ISKCON. So just avoid it... 

> > I won't speculate why it has not happened. I too wish it would. But will all concerned be willing to give it the time needed to go deeply into every angle, starting with women's roles in general? In the late 60's the Catholic church was faced with many divisive issues. Pope John called for an ecumenical council, which became known as Vatican II. Practically the entire Catholic leadership (over 2500 people) worked for 3 years and produced defining documents or constitutions addressing all these issues and more. Is it time for an "ISKCON Council"? 

> > I find it very disturbing that this issue could actually create a schism in ISKCON. In our history we have had two major schisms so far: 1) devotees breaking off to form their own maths on account of their allegiance to B.R. Sridhar Maharaj. 2) devotees breaking off on the rtvik issue. 

I'm trying to understand how the GBC's decision on this issue is of the same quality as these situations to the extent that it could force devotees to leave ISKCON on this account. Or, even worse for ISKCON centers to break away from the GBC. However, if there are such strong feelings about this, then could we somehow allow for two different policies and maintain unity? 

> This is not just "little old eccentric" Basu Ghosh Das. Seventy six TPs 
> voted in the ICC meeting to request the Bureau to petition the GBC to 
> rescind authorizing FDGs. The vote was taken after Anuttama Prabhu was 
> given all the time he wanted to present the pro-FDG arguments to the 
> assembled devotees. 

> > The pro-FDG arguments were thereafter rejected by the IIAC, and the Bureau as well! 

> > My hope is that "better sense will prevail" at the upcoming GBC AGM at 
> Mayapur next month, and hopefully the GBC will rescind the resolution 
> authorizing FDGs. 

> > I'm not in favor of rescinding the resolution. But, I would support another hold on its implementation if there was a really serious commitment to more work on the issue, going deeper into both women's roles in general, and the validity of the GBC authorizing anyone, man or women to initiate. 

[PADA: WE ARE MAKING A PILE OF GURUS, without first finding out if we have the authority to authorize gurus, male or female?]
But, if that doesn't happen, then what? I continue to hope that we can find unity in diversity. I continue to pray to Srila Prabhupada for his guidance on how to bridge the gap between the understandings of senior devotees. I pray that any elements of conditioning from our past or present, such as an attraction to liberal or conservative views not cloud our ability to appreciate and understand others points of view. 

Where do we go from here? Is it possible that both views can be right? Or must one be right and one wrong? Or is there a third way yet to be articulated? We all want to serve Srila Prabhupada and his mission, but we differ on how. Must one view prevail or can we accommodate more than one and how? I believe this was the spirit of the GBC resolution, to try to accommodate both views. 

But it hasn't worked. I pray for our GBC to find the best way forward. Thanks for your kind consideration of the above. 

> > And I thank you for your deep commitment to the service of Srila Prabhupada even if we disagree on how to execute that service. 

> Hope this meets you well. 

> > Thank you and I too hope you are well. Your servant, Pancharatna dasa dasanudas, 

> > Basu Ghosh Das > > Facebook: Basu Ghosh Das > Skype: Basu Ghosh Das > WhatsApp: +91-94260-54308 > > > Hare Krishna 

> > > > I'm also in dialog with Abhiram prabhu and I agree with his premise of > > fidelity to Srila Prabhupada. 

> > > > I'm particularly concerned as to the basis in Srila Prabhupada's 
> > instructions or anywhere in guru, sadhu and shastra that supports the 
> > policy of GBC requiring members to get their no-objection before 
> > initiating others. Thus I fully agree when he says : "I am questioning if 
> > the GBC have the right to appoint anyone as Guru." However, this is a 
> > deep discussion, and I am hoping the GBC can address this issue and 
> dispel our doubts.

[PADA: That is the root of all the doubts people have about the GBC, "I am questioning if the GBC has the right to appoint anyone as guru." Well yup! ys pd]