RESPONSE TO RUPANUGA / TO BE DIKSHA GURU ONE NEEDS THE DIRECT ORDER OF THE ACHARYA
Compiled by Yashoda-nandana dasa
Srila Prabhupada explained that His Guru Maharaja never appointed anybody as acarya.
"They wanted to create artificially somebody as acarya..."
Note: The ISKCON GBC artificially created 11 acaryas in March of 1978.
"… and everything failed. They did not consider even with common sense: that if guru Maharaja wanted to appoint somebody as acarya, why did he not say? …
Note: If Srila Prabhupada wanted to appoint 11 acaryas [diksa-gurus] for ISKCON, why did he not directly say?
"...He said so many things, and this point He missed? The real point?
Note: Similarly, Srila Prabhupada said so many things in the last few months of 1977, and the real point He missed?
"… and they insisted upon it. They declared some unfit person to become…
SPC (BBT 1991) 15.08.76
Note: And the GBC misheard, misunderstood, and misrepresented to the body of ISKCON devotees that 11 had been “appointed” as acaryas. And they insisted upon it. And they declared some unfit persons to become acaryas.
If His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada did not appoint anyone as acarya [or diksa guru] for His mission, what makes the leading secretaries of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada think that He would appoint one acarya or a group of acaryas for His Mission, in direct contradiction of His criticism of this whole concept in August of 1976.
They never thought, "Why Guru Mahārāja gave us instruction so many things, why he did not say that this man should be ācārya."
Prabhupāda: Every devotee, they must follow the rules and regulations, that's all…
Acyutānanda: What prompts the soul to misuse his independence or improperly use...?
Prabhupāda: Because he has got little independence. Yathecchasi tathā, he has got this.
Acyutānanda: Why do some misuse it and some never misuse it?
Prabhupāda: That depends on him. If one is determined that "I shall only act according to the advice of my Guru Mahārāja," then he's perfect. One has to submit like Arjuna said, sisyas te ham sadhi mam prapannam [Bg. 2.7].
Otherwise, he'll argue.
Devotee: Even nitya-siddha has guru.
Yaśomatīnandana: Even the liberated soul, nitya-siddha.
Prabhupāda: Liberated soul never says that "I am liberated." As soon as he says "liberated," he's a rascal. A liberated soul will never say that "I am liberated." That is liberated. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is God—guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsan [Cc. Ādi 7.71].
"My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a fool number one, and he has chastised Me." He's God. This is the example. If one remains always a servant ever - lastingly of guru, then he is liberated. And as soon as he thinks that he is liberated, he's a rascal. That is the teaching of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Guru more mūrkha dekhi'. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is mūrkha?
Why He's posing Himself that mūrkha? "I am fool number one." That means that is liberation. You must be ready always to be chastised by guru. Then he's liberated. And as soon as he thinks that "I am beyond this chastisement, I am liberated," he's a rascal. Why Caitanya Mahāprabhu says guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsan?
This is sahajiyā-vāda. He is thinking, "Oh I have become liberated. I don't require any direction of my guru. I'm liberated." Then he's rascal.
"Why this Gauḍīya Maṭha failed? Because they tried to become more than guru. He, before passing away, he gave all direction and never said that "This man should be the next ācārya." But these people, just after his passing away they began to fight, who shall be ācārya. That is the failure. They never thought, "Why Guru Mahārāja gave us instruction so many things, why he did not say that this man should be ācārya?" They wanted to create artificially somebody as ācārya and everything failed. They did not consider even with common sense that if Guru Mahārāja wanted to appoint somebody as ācārya, why did he not say? He said so many things, and this point he missed? The real point? And they insisted upon it. They declared some unfit person to become ācārya. Then another man came, then another, ācārya, another ācārya. So better remain a foolish person perpetually to be directed by Guru Mahārāja. That is perfection. And as soon as he learns the Guru Mahārāja is dead, "Now I am so advanced that I can kill my guru and I become guru." Then he's finished."
Yaśomatīnandana: They kept fighting, and when the real ācārya emerged they all became wonderstruck. They all became baffled. Now they all know in their hearts. They all know it. I can see. They all know that who is real ācārya.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The real ācārya emerges by his own preaching?
Devotee: Yes. (devotees offer obeisances)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end) Srila Prabhupada conversation, August 16, 1976, Bombay, India
Srila Prabhupada explains that there is no record that HDGBSTP nominated “any acarya” after him “… I have also read specifically your articles on the matter of acaryas, wherein on the 14th paragraph I see the acarya shall be entitled to nominate in in writing his successive acarya. But we do not find any record where our Srila Prabhupada nominated any acarya after Him. Different persons have interpreted on this point, and everyone of our Godbrothers are acting as acarya, so this is a controversial point which I do not wish to enter into while we are proposing for co-operation…” Srila Prabhupada letter 1969 (SPL (VI 1987) 69.8.38)
Note: Where is the actual verifiable record that Srila Prabhupada [HDG ACBSP]
“nominated any acarya[s] after Him”?
Srila Prabhupada’s definition of diksa.
“Then you can say ‘Yes, I know everything.‘ Diksa. Diksa, initiation, diksa, this Sanskrit word, diksa, means divya-jnanam ksipayati ask from spiritual master with service…..”
That very word initiation suggests, "This is the beginning." Dīkṣā, dīkṣā. Di... Divya. There are two words, divya-jñāna. Divya-jñāna means transcendental, spiritual knowledge. So divya is dī, and jñānam, kṣapayati, explaining, that is kṣa, dī-kṣā. This is called dīkṣā, dīkṣā, the combination. So dīkṣā means the initiation to begin transcendental activities. That is called initiation. Therefore, we take promise from the disciple that "You chant so many times," "Yes, sir." "You observe these rules and regulations," "Yes, sir." That is initiation. He has to observe; he has to chant. Then everything comes automatically.
SP Lecture. Auckland, New Zealand, February 22, 1973
Srila Prabhupada defines obedience.
“I may say many things to you, but when I say something directly to you, you do it. Your first duty is to do that, you cannot argue -‘Sir, you said to me do like this before’, no that is not your duty, what I say to you now you do it, that is obedience you cannot argue.”
SP S.B. Lecture, 14/4/75, Hyderabad
Guru cannot be self-made – Guru must be authorized.
Guru cannot be self-made. No. There is no such single instance throughout the whole Vedic literature. And nowadays, so many rascals, they are becoming guru without any authority. That is not guru. You must be authorized. Evam parampara-praptam imam ra… As soon as the parampara is….kalena yogo nasta parantapa, immediately finished. The spiritual potency finished. You can dress like a guru, you can talk big, big words, but it will never be effective.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Lecture, February 27th, 1977, Mayapur, India
Guru must be authorized by the bona fide Guru.
“Self-made guru cannot be guru. He must be authorized by the bona fide guru. Then he’s guru. This is the fact…Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru.”
SP NOD Lecture, October 31. 1972
Guru must be authorized by his predecessor spiritual master.
“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorized by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksa-vidhana.” (S.B. 4.8.54, purport)
Guru must be ordered by his guru.
Prabhupada: Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he’s ordered by his guru. That’s all. Otherwise nobody SP Bg. Lecture, 28th October 1975
DIKSA GURU MUST BE ORDERED
“Vallabha Bhatta wanted to be initiated by Gadadhara Pandita, but Gadadhara Pandita refused, saying, “The work of acting as a spiritual master is not possible for me. “I am completely dependent. My Lord is Gauracandra, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. I cannot do anything independently, without His order.” CC, Antya 7:150-151
Position of the actual guru.
“An actual guru always remains the servant of his own guru and the predecessor acaryas. Attempting to become a guru without one’s own guru’s order is a materialistic ambition. Accepting followers and circumventing one’s own guru is offensive.” Ref. VedaBase MGM 22-11
Srila Prabhupada explains how he became the leader of the KC movement. Guru must be ordered by His guru.
“Indian man: When did you become spiritual the leader of Krsna Consciousness?
Srila Prabhupada: What is that?
Brahmananda: He is asking when did you become the spiritual leader of Krsna Consciousness?
Srila Prabhupada: When my Guru Maharaja ordered me. This is the guru parampara.
Indian man: Did it…
Srila Prabhupada: Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he is ordered by his guru. That’s all. Otherwise, nobody can become guru.” SP Bg. Lecture, 28/10/75
Guru must be authorized / Guru cannot be self-made. Position of gurus without authority.
Guru must be authorized by the bona fide guru.
“Guru cannot be self-made. No. There is no such single instance throughout the whole Vedic literature. And nowadays, so many rascals, they are becoming guru without any authority. That is not guru. You must be authorized. Evam parampara-praptam imam ra… As soon as the parampara is…kalena yogo nasta parantapa, immediately finished. The spiritual potency finished. You can dress like a guru, you can talk big, big words, but it will never be effective.” SP Lecture, February 27th 1977, Mayapur, India
“Self-made guru cannot be guru. He must be authorized by the bona fide guru. Then he’s guru. This is the fact…Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru.”
SP NOD Lecture, October 31. 1972
Guru must be authorized person.
“Therefore, guru must be authorized person, not that bhumi-phala-guru. No. I am guru,” no. You cannot become guru unless you are agent to draw out the mercy water from the ocean of mercy of Krsna. That is guru. And therefore, a guru is not an ordinary person. He is the representative, bona fide representative of Krsna.”
SP SB Lecture, November 30, 1976
Guru cannot impart instructions without being authorized.
“The schoolmasters in the modern days are paid agents for giving some information, but the spiritual master is not a paid agent. Nor can he impart instruction without being authorized.” SB:2.9.43, purport
Srila Prabhupada predicts what happens when the acarya disappears?
“Unfortunately, when the acarya disappears, rogues and non-devotees take advantage and immediately begin to introduce unauthorized principles in the name of so-called svamis, yogis, philanthropists, welfare workers and so on.”
SB 4.28.48
Do not make addition, alteration. / Results of making additions and alterations.
Many times, they give me very great credit that I have done wonderful. Yes, I have done wonderful. But what is the reason? Because I am not a rascal. I speak what Krsna has spoken. That’s all. Very easy. Everyone can do that. Not only I. Any of you, you can do this. Simply speak what is…, what Krsna has said. That’s all. Don’t make addition, alteration. Then you become rascal. Immediately you become rascal.
SP Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture 1.5.29 Vrndavana, August 10, 1974
Danger of concocting.
Prabhupada: Ara na koriha mane asa. Don’t concoct. Don’t you sing daily? Ara na koriha mane asa. Don’t manufacture ideas. That is dangerous. Caitanya Mahaprabhu teaches by His example. Guru more murkha dekhi’ karila sasana. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said to Prakasananda Sarasvati that “My spiritual master saw Me fool number one, so he has chastised Me, that ‘Don’t try to read Vedanta, chant Hare Krsna
760623gc.nv Conversations 428848/530501
Go to right person who has seen. Do not make your own interpretation.
Prabhupada: Therefore, Krsna says, tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya: “One who knows, go and understand from them, from the guru.” Don’t make your interpretation, rascal. You shall remain always arascal. Then what is the use of all these verses? If it is so easy to understand Krsna then why Krsna says, tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya: “Then you will understand. Go to the right person who has seen.” .
751210mw.vrn Conversations 405334/530501
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Fw: This is what is circulating on fj
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2024 14:06:41 +0000 (UTC)
From: Yasoda nandana dasa <yasoda1008@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: Yasoda nandana dasa <yasoda1008@yahoo.com>
CC: yasoda1008@yahoo.com <yasoda1008@yahoo.com>
Have fun with the typical misrepresentation of Srila Prabhupada’s"s final oder.
See at the end...
"I will name some of you regular gurus"
But the unedited, non adulterated May 28, 1977 conversation does not contain this fanciful interpretation and fabrication.
Mr. Rupanuga has conveniently ignored the words "When I order.."
Which leads to the important question "When did Srila Prabhupada factually order any of his disciples as "regular gurus" or initiating acharyas.
RUPANUGA PRABHU IS OUR SENIORMOST SRILA PRABHUPADA DISCIPLE. He served on Srila Prabhupada’s GBC for over 30 years, and had more direct contact and association with Srila Prabhupada than all the rest of them together. He is now in his early 80’s and has the wisdom of maturity and a lifetime of sincere devotion to Srila Prabhupada. He never chose to act as an initiating guru although that option was there for him. Instead he chose to serve Srila Prabhupada’s original mission based on love and trust.
Maybe we should hear what he has to say about such important issues…….
RUPANUGA PRABHU WRITES:
SRILA PRABHUPADA'S BATTLEFIELD COMMISSIONS
"Actually, I have not given any of you sannyas. But I am in a war with Maya, the material energy, and I need leaders. It is called in wartime, 'battlefield commission.'
There is no qualified leaders, but someone has to lead the charge. So, you take every fifth man, 'You are now lieutenant of the squad.' He is really a private, but we make him lieutenant for the day and he leads the charge. It is to be understood that you are not sufficiently equipped for this fight and most of you will go down."
(Srila Prabhupada Conv., July 1976)
It has been revealed by witnesses that six months later, at The Kumba Mela in mid-January, 1977, there was a meeting of all the sannyasis present there, 35-40 of them, with Srila Prabhupada. The witnesses report that Srila Prabhupada was very angry and was loudly chastising them, saying: "This is not sannyas! This is not meaning of sannyas; you are making a mockery of sannyas!" He demanded that no more sannyasis be created, as he also demanded in the January 7th meeting, a week before the Kumba Mela.
In the conversation on Jan. 7th 1977, Srila Prabhupada told Jagadisa GBC, and Trivikram Maharaj, Hari Sauri, Palika dasi, Dr. Patel, who were also present: "But this hypocrisy should be stopped. First of all, there will be no sannyasi anymore. I have got very bad experience. And, at least we are not going to create new sannyasis. And those who have fallen, let them marry, live like respectable gentlemen. I have no objection. After all, young man, fallen down—that's all right. It is by nature's way. But marry that girl..." (page 331, Vol 28, Conv. Books.)
Earlier, during that same conversation, page 318, he also said: "This should be strictly outlawed, no more sannyasis. And those who have fallen, you get them married..." Srila Prabhupada went into considerable detail regarding his reasons during this conversation. And there were no recommendations for sannyas that upcoming Gaurpurnima on March 5th1977, as was previously usually given to Srila Prabhupada at Gaurpurnima time.
However, he gave three sannyas initiations on May 29th 1977, to Bhakticaru, Premabhakti and Bhakticaitanya, all Bengalis, in Vrindavan, the very day after the May 28th GBC meeting! Bhakticaru Swami had just met Srila Prabhupada four months earlier and was receiving sannyas, first, and second initiations all at one time!
PADA: Good, so on Jan 7th, 1977 they are falling down left and right, and are thus not qualified for sannyasa. Worse, they are making a mockery of the sannyasa order. Thus! They should get married and be householders. But suddenly -- one year later -- on Jan 7th, 1978, they are telescoped to being the eternal residents of Krishna loka and servants of the gopis? How is that even possible.
And why didn't Rupanuga and others know that telescoping "unqualified persons for sannyasa" would result in scandals and disasters by making them -- eternally liberated acharyas? OK a few exceptions were made in 1977, but the overall tone and tenor was to suspend sannyasa. Never mind we all knew these sannyasas were failing left and right.
These three sannyas initiations are erroneously cited as proof that Srila Prabhupada was rescinding his order to discontinue sannyas in Iskcon. But it was his prerogative to make exceptions to the rule he had made a few months before. Why did he? To strengthen the Indian Yatra?
(Note, they were all Bengalis.)
But this does not change the fact that he ordered the devotees--..."there will be no sannyasi anymore. I have got very bad experience." "This should be strictly outlawed, no more sannyas." (Jan. 7th 1977) Those who are doubtful should read these conversations, which were quite descriptive and definitive, not tentative or temporary.
It was Srila Prabhupada's prerogative to make an exception, but that exception was later used as an excuse to continue sannyas initiations everywhere after his disappearance. And the exception was made the rule—surreptitiously. This is cheating, and the result has been the continual evolution of an unauthorized elitist priesthood with wealth, followers and prestige. But the truth is, Srila Prabhupada stopped his sannyasi "battlefield commissions" BEFORE HE LEFT.
During this January 7th conversation, Srila Prabhupada also spoke strongly and positively about the grihastha ashram. Actually, the history is that the movement was initially spread by grihasthas, and the whole GBC was originally all grhasthas. None of the above information was passed on to the rest of the GBC, or to the general devotees, and therefore nothing was done about it. Nothing has been done about it still, till this day!
And when Tamal Krishna took sannyas, Srila Prabhupada wanted him replaced on the GBC, but he refused to leave. That is a fact; I was there, but Srila Prabhupada knew how far he could bend certain bamboos without breaking them, and Tamal Krishna could not bend very far, so he didn’t insist.
Your servant,
Rupanuga das, ACBSP
PADA: Rupanuga was still propping up homosexual and pedophile messiah Kirtanananda as their acharya in 1986, when me and Sulochana were trying to bring him down. Then the Rupanuga reformers excommunicated Sulochana (and me de facto). Sulochana said "they painted a bull's eye on my back to get me assassinated."
And a few months later, he was.
Rupanuga knew they were not qualified for sannyasa and therefore not qualified to be acharyas, but so did many of the rest of us. So he promoted a very dangerous illusion that conditioned souls are God's servants, and then all the banning, beating, molesting, lawsuits and murders started -- and these guys are responsible for the results because they co-created this imbroglio.
And then I had to live with a constant stream of death threats for most of my adult life as a result. But I am not complaining too much. At least I was not a child in Rupaniga's program's "death camp for kids" aka Auschwitz for kids, from which victims told me they were starved, beaten, had bones broken and teeth knocked out, and also raped and insulted constantly etc.
Never mind a number of them told me they had not even been trained properly in basic schooling of reading, writing and math, so they had a hard jump start getting into the material world. Some of them just could not make it and -- died in different ways, often horrible ways.
And thus a number of victims committed suicide, or died from drugs and so on, and many are not doing well now with all sorts of physical and mental trauma issues etc. At least I was not a victim of Rupanauga's anal reconstructive surgery epidemic for kids program, as a kid, but I was a victim of being hunted for death because -- I advocated for those kids.
If they would hunt me to kill me for being an advocate, imagine how much pressure they put on their program's kid victims to stay silent. In any case, someone's party will collectively be held accountable for all this eventually, and it will not only be the perps, but also all their advocates, hand maidens, enablers, associates, apologists, sycophants, guru wanna-be pals etc.
I kinda like Rupanaga personally, but dude, you really backed the wrong party here sir, and your fate is now FULLY tied to theirs. And that cannot be changed even by presidential decree pardons, you are culpable, and you will have to pay for that support at some time, sorry. I also understand why you do not like the ritviks, we had to expose your sorry a** program and have it sued and etc.
ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com
