John Joeseph / Women Gurus / Lucknow Mess / ISKCON 06 04 23

PADA: Trigger warning! Lots of colorful language here and discussion of the molesting issue. ys pd

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WOMEN GURUS:

PADA : The women are asking a good question, a woman here says she would have had the molesters in Mayapur arrested, why shouldn't she be the in charge? In other words, whoever is able to manage molesting better should be the in charge. I think that makes sense to most people. The abusers were empowered and enabled by the men in charge there, and for 40 years or more. They failed, or worse than that, they enabled criminal child abuse. 

The men who abused "are like broken plates," ok fine, but the victims are infuriated that the people who orchestrated the regime and defended the abusers are still the men in charge. Shouldn't we be fixing that problem first? Some of the victims here are saying all this discussion of women gurus is a smokescreen to avoid taking out the men who made the molesting regime. ys pd

angel108b@yahoo.com

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I for one don’t agree with any of your proposal. Now upto you all to decide
what you want to do.

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 6:17 PM AdityaNarayana Das <
adityanarayanadas.gkg@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hare Krishna Maharaj jis, Prabhujis, and Matajis
>
>
>
> All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
>
>
>
> Please accept my humble obeisances
>
>
> As the Co-president of ISKCON Lucknow, Aditya Narayana Das, and other TMC
> members, we would like to draw your attention to the current situation
> taking place in our temple which is concerning the devotees here. Please
> find the details below:
>
>
>
> 1. In 2018, we were invited from ISKCON Delhi to ISKCON Lucknow for
> starting and establishing youth preaching. Despite numerous challenges and
> limited resources, through the mercy of our Guru and Krsna, we have managed
> to *presently create and have around 20 brahmacharis and many youths.*
>
>
>
> 2. However, we discovered that ISKCON Kanpur was also conducting
> preaching activities in Lucknow without seeking permission or informing the
> Lucknow Council. Once we became aware of this, we approached ISKCON Kanpur,
> who assured us that they would cease their preaching efforts and hand over
> the responsibilities to devotees in Lucknow.
>
>
>
> 3. Despite repeated requests from the Lucknow Temple, Prem Harinam
> Prabhu, the president of ISKCON Kanpur, has persistently neglected to
> refrain from interfering in our area for the past five years. Moreover,
> they have gradually expanded their preaching activities, disregarding our
> concerns.
>
>
>
> 4. A final call was made by Lucknow to stop Kanpur preaching in their
> area and communicated to Prem Harinaam Prabhu who is Kanpur temple
> President as well as Zonal supervisor for Lucknow.
>
>
>
>
>
> 5. Regrettably, despite our request, Prem Harinaam Prabhu has remained
> resolute in continuing the preaching activities of Kanpur in Lucknow
> without addressing our concerns.
>
>
>
> 6. *In his capacity as the Zonal Supervisor, Prem Harinaam Prabhu,
> along with the Zonal team, has taken the decision to alter the management
> council of the Lucknow Temple without consulting the existing Lucknow
> Temple Management Council. This decision has involved forcefully
> incorporating Kanpur devotees into the Lucknow TMC in an attempt to
> legitimize the Kanpur preaching in Lucknow under the name of Lucknow
> preaching.* *This action is seen as the initial step by ISKCON Kanpur
> devotees towards a complete takeover of the entire Lucknow temple.*
>
>
>
> 7. *The current Lucknow Temple Management Council has strongly opposed
> the entry of Kanpur devotees into Lucknow, but the Zonal team is exerting
> pressure to enforce their inclusion*.
>
>
>
> *8. *Over the past several years, ISKCON Lucknow has steadily expanded
> its preaching efforts, fundraising initiatives, and festivals. We are
> confident in our ability to continue this progress in the future without
> the need for any forced intervention from Kanpur in the Lucknow temple. *If
> Kanpur possesses capable leaders, it would be more appropriate for them to
> be assigned to a new area rather than intervening and attempting to take
> over an already well-established system.*
>
>
>
> 9. The actions of ISKCON Kanpur have deeply disturbed the entire
> devotee community of ISKCON Lucknow and have caused discouragement among
> the dedicated and full-time devotees serving in the Lucknow temple.
>
>
>
> Therefore, we respectfully request the following three actions:
>
>
>
> *i) Immediate stopping of ISKCON Kanpur's preaching activities in Lucknow.*
>
> *ii) The preservation of the current Lucknow Local Management (TMC) to
> continue their service.*
>
> *iii) A change in the Zonal supervisor for ISKCON Lucknow. We would prefer
> to serve under either of the other two Zonal Supervisors for Uttar Pradesh
> (HH Bhakti Prem Swami Maharaj or HG Sundar Gopal Prabhu).*
>
>
>
> We earnestly seek appropriate action to be taken in response to these
> concerns.
>
>
>
>
> Your aspiring servants
>
> Aditya Narayan Das (Co President, ISKCON Lucknow)
>
> Umapati Sewak Das (TMC Member) / Madhu Smita Das (TMC Member)
>
>
> --
Devakinandan das.

Gaura Govinda Poisoned? / Palika's VIDEO / Ex-kuli Testimonies 06 03 23

Congratulations Jayapataka! 

You got many kids molested in your Mayapur program. 

I worship thy feet!

Could not have done this job without you!

GAURA GOVINDA MAHARAJA POISONED?

PA: A Lokanath disciple was threatening to kill Goura Govinda swami twice at my home in January 1996 in Bhubaneshwar and demanding my birthday be celebrated. Chaitanya Chandra spoke to me about it and told me they would kill Goura Govinda.

My step mother Anuradha said they threatened they would kill Goura Govinda, was I happy about it is a result of my protest against Lokanath at the Prabhupada centennial festival. My father Jagadatma simply smiled and nodded and said leave her alone it's done no point crying over spilt milk.

After Goura Govinda swami had passed away I saw all 5 of them speaking with each other a number of times to discuss what happened and they told me it wasn't my fault it would have happened anyway not to be upset. Chaitanya Chandra, Advaita Acharya now Gopinath, Atmarama drew the short straw and administered the poison, Anuradha and Jagadatma were the 5 devotees involved in removing Goura Govinda swami. They said they had no choice. It had to be done for the good of Iskcon International society for Krishna consciousness.

PADA: Gaura Govinda Maharaja had said that he was going to get the "local brahmanas" (Gaudiya Matha) to make a public protest at the temple that the GBC is saying the jeevas fell from Vaikuntha (which is what Srila Prabhupada says). Of course "local brahmanas" are really Gaudiya Matha folks, who believe we fell from brahmajyoti (which is mayavada). 

GBC was maybe afraid the Gaudiya Matha would make an actual physical uprising at the temple, and then try to legally invalidate the ISKCON charity status and so on. In other words -- Gaura Govinda Maharaja was threatening their business. They felt he had to be stopped. He was making a series of talks about the jeeva just before he departed. Gaura Govinda's being buried in a sewer may have been to make his body decompose more rapidly. ys pd

Question: Why is the promotion of the ritvik system still going on?

Gour Govinda Swami: The GBC body has already condemned it. We have also issued our paper that was published in the ISKCON journal. Very clear. The GBC has rejected that idea. That is not accepted. That is not the view of Prabhupada. That is neither the Vaiṣṇava process, nor the Gaudiya Vaiṣṇava process at all. No. There is no such process in the Gaudiya process, Gaudiya dhārā, no.
Q & A at Forest Hills, Queens, New York – November 9, 1991

PADA: Yep, Gaura Govinda maharaja wanted us to worship his homo and pedo pals as our acharyas, and they might have taken him out. Strange how that would happen, the people you want to be worshiped as messiahs -- as good as God, wanted you dead. 

Or as one devotee said, being with the GBC is like falling into a pit of snakes -- or going to an Ozark's venemous snake handling church. And the problem is, GGM was trying to make these snakes into Krishna's gurus, and he thought he was clever and he could handle these venemous snakes, but he got fatally bit by the same snakes he was handling. ys pd

krishna1008: Gaura Govinda Maharaja's Stinky Sewage Samadhi

PA: I begged Goura Govinda swami for help with being sexually abused repeatedly then gave up the last time when he asked me if it had stopped as I just couldn't face another beating for telling him yet again -- they were still at it.

I personally saw 2 previous students protesting outside his bhajan kutir for Goura Govinda swami molesting them when he was the principal. Chaitanya Chandra bribed one the other refused money. I spoke to Goura Govinda swami about this incident a number of times on his daily walks and he never denied it.

When he was chastising Lokanath for having me beaten in January 96 and made to apologise Lokanath said who are you to tell me what to do? Goura Govinda swami chastised me and said it was not my place to criticise or protest against Lokanath.

Goura Govinda swami said to me every time I told him about the sexual abuse "Tat tenu kampam su su miksha mana and trinada pi su niche na" surrender to Krishna get Krishna Prema and never come back to this material world only suffering is here.

PADA: In other words -- GGM is not going to lift a finger to help her ... and that means the day will come when he will be a child who is begging for help -- and none will ever come. ys pd

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PADA: Some folks have argued with me that some of these "victim accounts" are not fully accurate. Well maybe yes and maybe no, but something horrible for sure happened to all these folks -- or they would not be telling these kinds of stories AT ALL. 

No normal kids ever tell these kinds of stories, clearly something terrible happened to her -- or else her and a number of other ex-kuli children -- would not be sharing these kinds of stories, at all. As one devotee said, these children's lives would have made Stephen King novels look like nothing scary at all. ys pd

angel108b@yahoo.com

===============

A Devotee: The site for the new temple at Auckland, New Zealand, had been excavated, revealing the fawn-coloured clay beneath the top soil. Two gurukula girls, both aged ten, were walking around the temple construction site when they spotted the boy's gurukula ashram teacher. He was fashioning a lump of clay in his hands as he signalled for them to come to him.

As they neared he showed them the clay object he'd made, a cylindrical shaped object.

"Tell me what this is", he said to the girls.

"That's a banana", replied one of the girls.

The ashram teacher sniggered. "It's a BIG banana".

*********************************

This same ashram teacher had tried to strip me naked in public. As I resisted, pulling away with all of my might, he let me go with a push, sending me full force into a door frame, splitting my forehead open, blood gushing everywhere.

They drove me in haste to the Kumeu Medical Centre, where the doctor injected a local anaesthetic and put seven stitches in. When I look in the mirror I still see the scar. It's half on my forehead and half above my hairline.

"You really need to watch where you're running from now on", said the doctor, whose name was William Calverley, as he finished putting in the stitches. On the drive back to New Varshana, I was reminded that I was not to tell anyone what actually happenned.

Bhavananda, who we called Srila Vishnupada, was soon to visit.

"Srila Vishnupada will give you an extra cookie", I was told.

(During his NZ visits, Bhavananda, "Srila Vishnupada", would sit on a vyasasana and hand out luxurious biscuits and cookies to the devotees. Sometimes he would take a bite from a cookie and throw the remainder into a swirling crowd of brahmacaris who would literally shove and fight to get the "special prasadam".)

I don't remember getting any extra cookie from Srila Vishnupada as a result of my head injury, but I do remember the weird pain of telling everyone a lie, of bottling up what actually happened.

*****************************

The boy's ashram teacher was at some stage transferred to pujari service. All of us gurukula kids would wake up for mangal arati. After Mangal arati, we would line up on the wooden verandah of the temple and two kids would be selected to collect milk sweets from the pujari.

We had a round plastic container for the milk sweets and they were taken back to the gurukula where we'd each get one sweet along with a cup of hot milk. When the boy's ashram teacher became the pujari, he was waiting in the deity room for the kids to come and collect the milk sweets.

He would part his dhoti to reveal an erection, and tell the children that they had to touch his penis if they were to get the milk sweets. Eventually he was outed as one of the girls (who he had fashioned the clay "banana" in front of) told her friend, who in turn told her father.

"He passes this funny white stuff when we touch his genitals", the girls said.
My mother told me that he "hung his head in shame" and "admitted everything" when summoned in front of the temple committee.

He was put on the next available flight out of New Zealand, to Sydney, Australia, where he became the pujari. 

V Dasi: More disgusting evidence this is a molester cult. His name should be revealed so that people should know to keep their kids away from him and he should also be banned from temple premises.

MK: 100% agree!! The wife knows already anyway ... and if he had been arrested and sent to jail (which he should have been!!) she would have been "embarrassed" and felt bad, of course! But what is more important?! To be concerned her feelings or to avert any more possible REAL AND TRAUMATIC damage to children?! 

I commend you, GP Dasa for your kind and thoughtful manner, but this is a case where the public needs to be alerted! AND the man needs to be PUBLICLY SHAMED at the very least!! AND the GBC and "temple authorities" once again need to be admonished! One more instance of pastoral abuse coming to light! Thoroughly disgusting!!

ISKCON's Women Abuse / Kailasa / NZ Devotees / Kaunteya / Al-kuhl 06 02

Women used as pawns in the GBC's guru chess game

Henry Doktorski: Early June, 1986: On or around this date in history 37 years ago, Tirtha’s wife, Suksmarupini (Suzanne Bludeau), leaves him. After her husband’s arrest in Kent, Ohio, on May 27th, she returns to their trailer-park home in Ravenna. Soon after, devotees bring her and her sons to the Cleveland ISKCON temple.

After a few days, a Bhaktipada disciple in Cleveland, Ananda dasa, takes her to New Vrindaban to meet with Bhaktipada. Bhaktipada tells Ananda to “take her away.” Suksmarupini’s sons are enrolled in the gurukula, and Ananda and Suksmarupini move to a furnished house in Scottsdale, Arizona, provided by New Vrindaban. Ananda becomes her new lover.

When Tirtha in jail finds out, he orders Janmastami to “whack him” for “stealing his wife.” Janmastami refused. (Gold, Guns and God, Vol. 7, p. 172, Killing For Krishna, p. 408)

Photo of Suzanne, Moundsville, West Virginia, May 1987, by Nelson Hooker.

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angel108b@yahoo.com

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PADA's KAILASA UPDATE: But who initiated Hasya Rati? Anyway, that is fine, you have no source of divyam jnanam that destroys sins, but our people do. You want Krishna to have non-trained people taking care of His deity, and so your plan has made deviants including molesters taking care of Him since 1978, but we want Him to have trained people. 

You wanted Madhyams to take sins, but Srila Prabhupada says they cannot take sins because they have no brahmana tejyas. And they are thus in danger of taking births as snakes. We do not want to have people taking births as snakes. 

I am not sure why you have even any valid points since you are saying your whole idea is to preach that Krishna's vani is dead, post mortem and posthumous. We do not worship the post mortem, we worship the eternal. There is no divyam jnanam that destroys sins for you, you say it is non-manifest, a phantom, dead, post mortem, ok you cannot save yourselves then never mind others. 

Who goes around saying Krishna words are post mortem and non-manifest? I forgot, you wanted to manifest deviants including molesters taking care of the deity, and rats and cock roaches in some deity rooms, and that is what you have manifested. Sorry, we do not want people to take births as snakes and be eaten by ants, which is what happens when non-uttama takes sins. 

You want people to suffer and we do not. Srila Prabhupada will be the guru for our people, and we are gaining thousands more just this year, so our idea will prevail over time and in no time at all no one will even know who Kailasa ever was or if he even ever existed, our people will be worshiping the acharya long after he is post mortem. No one in any religion goes around saying their guru is dead and not valid and post mortem, that is not taught anywhere by religious people. Srila Prabhupada says Jesus is taking the sins of the Christians now even after 2,000 years, because he is their guru now. ys pd

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Having an organization where a limited Madhyam is giving a limited number of initiations to a limited number of people will not work for a large international operation. Srila Prabhupada does not want to have a teeny cult of a limited few people, he wants thousands, and we are doing that. Anyway you cannot name the person who initiated you as Hasya Ratī, that is called mayavada. You got a secret name ceremony, giving you a secret mantra from a secret guru, this is called mayavada. This is how some of the mayavadas operate. Of course, Srila Prabhupada also says a person who does not name the guru has made themselves the guru, also mayavada. Ys pd

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DEVOTEES IN NEW ZEALAND

https://www.harekrishnabeehive.com/bhaktihome?



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PADA: OK Kaunteya is still at it, the Bhakti Vikas / Basu Ghosh / ICC India folks are basically neo-smarta [demons?] for their not allowing women to be ISKCON diksha gurus. And Kaunteya has wrote some booklets that are critical of Srila Prahbupada's "out of touch 18th century ideas."

Meanwhile, he has been Jayapataka's hand maiden in Mayapura where -- oh oh, there has been tons of problems, did I forget to mention tons and tons of problems -- with the treatment of children. Was he aware of these problems? What is his view on these problems?

At the same time, maybe six years ago, the GBC was lamenting that not enough men are stepping up to be gurus, and the original wave of post-1978 men gurus was wearing out, getting too old, maybe getting senile -- and of course dying off. Right. So how is making a few "senior Prabhupada disciple women," who will also almost certainly be old, worn out, sick and dying off, going to help? At all? It isn't.

It is just creating a false hope for a few foolish women who think they are going to get the keys to the kingdom. But first of all the GBC has made severe restrictions on how these women can be selected. OK hardly any will be.

The entire credibility of the GBC [men or women not really the big issue] is in shreds, tatters, and it is more or less a train wreck. Bhakti Vikas swami says it is like crashing Jumbo Jets, because hundreds of people get wiped out when their gurus bloop etc. How can adding a few women as gurus to this crashing Jumbo Jets process fix the current mess? I am not seeing how it will.


Most of the temple are now Hindu-ized as well.

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AMOGHA LILA DASA:

Amogha lila really did not appreciate my approach to addressing the problems in ISKCON. He said I was "way too heavy" when victims told me I was "way too lenient." He said contrary things, the GBC is not approved by Srila Prabhupada, but we have to cooperate with the GBC etc. Having it both ways? He was especially angry at me when I was organizing the molesting lawsuit because "it will cost us a lot of money." 

No kidding. A program that allows industrial levels of mistreatment of minors is due for a reaction, and we should expect such. I think he just had some very unrealistic ideas about how to manage an institution, and especially, how to manage the younger members of that institution. He was one of those guys who would walk across the street when I was coming the other way -- to avoid having any interactions with me. It is sad what happened to him, but he was always trying to avoid the real issues in my opinion, and the "head in the sand" approach seems to lead devotees into a detrimental mental state sooner or later. Especially, when the real seriousness of the abuse issue finally surfaced as they had to face the reality of what their acquiescing was causing. ys pd

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TO THE DEVOTEES WHO HAVE TURNED TO ALCOHOL. 



What exactly is alcohol?

Let’s start by looking at the meaning of the word “alcohol”. It comes from the Arabic "al-kuhl", which in translation means "the spirit that devours the body".
Once again, "Al-kuhl" is the original basis for the English word "ghoul."

In Middle Eastern popular culture, it refers to an evil demon that eats human bodies, steals corpses and kidnaps children. The words “alembic” and “alcohol” are metaphorical names for “water of life” or “spirit. "

“Alembic” and “alcohol” simultaneously point more often to a distilled liquid, which originated in Middle Eastern magic experiments and alchemy experiments.
Deepening the issue, we’ll discover also these interesting facts:

1. Al kol: a jinn or spirit of Arab mythology who comes incarnate in various forms or supernatural beings.

2. Al kol: Any drug or substance that darkens the mind and distracts it.

3. The word "alcohol" in astronomy is also related to a particular star called "Algol", which also means "Demon's Head".

4. In modern Arabic, alcohol (ethanol) is called ال ولول (al- Vawl), which more precisely means "spirit" or "demon".

In alchemy, alcohol is used to extract the mental essence of an entity.
For this reason, it is used to extract fragrances, which are then used in the production of essential oils.

Alcohol consumption has the effect on our body that alcohol extracts the essence itself, the foundation of the soul, making our body more accessible to the surrounding entities.

It happens that it puts us under the influence of the quality of ignorance (tamas), which weakens our perception and mental defenses. It is known that drunk and drunk people have a much weaker aura, and all chakras are suppressed except the lower ones - the most primitive ones.

What happens to a person when they are intoxicated -- most entities (ghosts) around us have low frequency (that's why we call alcoholic beverages "spiritus").
Because of this, people who consume excessive amounts of alcohol often get a “window” and have no memory.

Doing so many times, they act like they’ll never act, and they’re literally not themselves. This is because their weakened conscience is temporarily dominated by one or more spirits that seek to entertain themselves through the victim's crude body. A similar effect occurs with squareness. The flesh is dominated by the Spirit that takes control. 

However, one doesn’t remember anything when he wakes up. Spirits try to use our bodies as vehicles for their selfish purposes, dark actions, violence, ground sex practices, destructive behaviors, rape and more, while they themselves have lost their material bodies. 

Our soul and delicate body are intoxicated and "sleep" under the influence of alcohol. Thus we become easy prey. Places like pubs, bars, discos etc are full of such beings because they are attracted to the quality of ignorance that prevails over you. I'm sure many of you have experienced instances where a very drunk person was literally acting like an obsessive.

Sometimes you just have to look it in the eye and it doesn’t mean good. You may have experienced or noticed a significant change in voice, violence, sexual promiscuity, harmful substance use, damage to property, conflicting behaviour, and other negative expressions.

So let's reflect on this experience and ask ourselves: are these acts of kindness, love and positivity? Is the aforementioned behavior an expression of awareness and health? Unfortunately, we see this behaviour in most young people and even the elderly on the streets on weekends. Regular self-destruction has become, especially in the West, a moral standard. 

Panihati VIDEO / Surya Narayan Writes / Mahatma das 06 01

SHARING - Please feel free to share your thoughts. 

Purple Horses: Living Gurus, Dead Gurus.

By Surya Narayana das - A Blunt Crayon Production.

*While drafting this my phone voice recognition kept coming up with ‘purple horse’ when I said “purport,” so I ran with it.

———

“The Bhagavad-gītā should be understood by the line of disciplic succession of authorized ācāryas.

“Fortunately, in your South India all the great ācāryas appeared—Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, all of them.

“So you are very fortunate, and the ācārya commentary is also there. Rāmānujācārya commentary is there, Madhvācārya commentary is there.

“So you take advantage and read them very nicely. That is our request, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

“And try to understand Kṛṣṇa. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then the result will be, janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ, in truth, in fact, which you can do only if you follow the ācāryas, not the rascals.

“Don't follow any rascal. You follow the ācārya, you'll get the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our request.”
(Lecture on SB 1.2.5 - Visakhapatnam, February 20, 1972, Ladies Club)

———

In his wisdom, Srila Prabhupada gave us direction: “Therefore, our only means for satisfying Kṛṣṇa is to pursue the injunctions of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who says, “Whomever you meet, instruct him on the teachings of Kṛṣṇa. In this way, on My order, become a spiritual master and deliver the people of this country.”
(CC Madhya 7.128)

And all over the world, members of the Hare Krishna Movement have taken it up: book distribution, harinama, Sunday Love Feasts, travelling festivals, preaching to new bhaktas, speaking with friends, family and workmates, etc.

We’ve been inspired, trained, and educated by our many siksha gurus, and hopefully have gone on to become good sikshas ourselves.

“Simply trying to follow the orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we speak to the people of the world about Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This will make us qualified to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa.”
(CC Adi 17.78, Purport)

The siksha gurus in Iskcon - those considered by leadership to be from within the rank and file - play a vital role in the expansion of KC to every town and village. It’s the siksha who goes out on the street, standing in the rush of the opposing current, sometimes facing threats and abuse, and every now and then if they’re lucky, snagging a sincere soul zipping by.

Once back at the temple, centre, or our homes, the siksha might start with the basics: Who is Krishna, what is karma, reincarnation, then on to how to sling a dhoti or wrap a sari (the more liberal centres these days may teach you how to do both). We’re taught how to cook and offer our food, apply tilak, recite Prabhupada’s pranamas, chant on beads, ride the kartals, and later maybe to dress Prabhupada’s murti, wake the Deities, give Bhagavatam class, or hit the street on books, taking up the role of siksha ourselves.

The siksha gurus weave through the new devotees' awakening, and if we’re fortunate, there will always be siksha encouragement and support through the years whenever we need.

As siksha, we may counsel, console, challenge, listen and encourage, while showing kindness and care to the newcomer as they deal with the ups and downs of re-entering the spiritual atmosphere and Maya’s calling them back. Recently, I wrote to two of my original siksha gurus to let them know I’d not forgotten how valuable and impactful that initial contact had been.

The siksha might don the hat of mother, father, sister, friend, guide, counsellor, chef, nutritionist, hygienist, priest, spiritual doctor, first responder, educator, editor, confidant, personal trainer, protector, travelling companion and all round servant, to name a few.

Within the current Iskcon structure we then see after all the hard work is done by the rank and file shiksha devotees, then the Iskcon diksha guru flies into town and scoops up the fresh devotees, and at next year’s Vyasa puja the new disciple may pontificate on their guru having saved them, how they owe him their life, a debt they can never repay, without His Holiness the wretched soul is simply a worthless dust-speck, etc., etc. Many lofty accompanying verses from sastra may be quoted to drive the point home. But is this perception of both the Iskcon guru and disciple accurate or even true?

A guru / teacher is important, and most devotees will act in the capacity of siksha guru at some point and place in their lives, possibly in a variety of settings and circumstances, as was the desire of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. It never really goes away, and I’m guessing most practicing devotees have these kinds of exchanges still, where they share the Krishna lifestyle and teachings to varying degrees with people they meet.

———

PADA: Yes, I just told some media people their whole idea is:

"You need to worship the living pedos to attain God"

Recently ammended!

You have to worship our dead pedos in samadhi!

Anyone who does not worship the living and dead pedophiles?

Banned, beaten, sued and killed. 

Any questions?  

In his paper, What is Guru? – Part 1, Illuminations 68, Mahatma Das writes the following in his list of reasons one may not want to take an Iskcon diksha guru:

“The person considers Prabhupada to be his guru and he thinks that accepting another guru will interfere with this relationship.”

He then offers the following advice:

“One simply needs to ask his siksa guru to help him deepen his relationship with Prabhupada and act as an intermediary between him and Prabhupada.”

Although somewhat encouraging, like others, Mahatma Prabhu wants to keep Srila Prabhupada out of reach, repeating the institutional line: we can’t be trusted to discern Prabhupada’s purports, stand on our own two feet, or hold our own in a student / master relationship with the sampradāya ācārya. In the absence of any evidence as to why, Mahatmaji simply tells us we need someone to ‘act as an intermediary BETWEEN us and Prabhupada.’

PADA: Pretty simple really. How would people worship Mahatma's illicit sex with men, women and children guru's process -- which bans, beats, molests, sues and assassinates devotees -- if they worship Srila Prabhupada instead of following his process? Mahatma's folks have a very strict program, we have to worship their anal reconstructive surgery of children epidemic process, or we are "bogus ritviks." 

And then when the children victims of his process are taking their lives, and thus ISKCON is sued for $400,000,000 for mass child abuse, then Mahatama says the people leading this process are "God's successor gurus," when even ordinary media people tell me, these people are a Satanic child abuse cult. 

And the Dallas court folks say -- these are the most horrific cases of child abuse they have ever witnessed in this court. But the people leading the abuse regime are allegedly "God's successors" which simply doubles down the abuse and makes the victims feel even more distraught. The people who orchestrated our abuse are "God's successors"? Who would say such cruel things to abuse victims?

Mahatma Prabhu would have us believe without a designated caregiver we can’t approach Srila Prabhupada directly, understand his teachings, develop or deepen a relationship with him through service, practice, and chastity to his teachings. As a senior and a teacher, Mahatmaji is shaping young minds, having them believe they cannot directly approach and understand ‘the Acarya commentary.’ I disagree.

[PADA: Correct. The people who read Srila Prabhupada's books know that worshiping illicit sex with men, women and children is bogus.]

I would suggest that the current climate in Iskcon around the function and role of these replacement gurus has the potential to keep the disciple in a spiritually infantile or stunted state, believing they cannot fully function or truly think for themselves, and are therefore unfit to be trusted in a direct relationship with Srila Prabhupada, what to speak of the caitya-guru within the heart.

“In the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord says that to those who are constantly engaged in devotional service with love and affection, the Supreme Personality of Godhead gives intelligence from within, and thus they may make further progress.”
(SB 4.9.8, Purport)

The living guru theory may actually limit our natural growth, self-realisation, and healthy spiritual interdependency. Disciples may feel they only have one ‘port of call,’ with both Prabhupada and Krishna beyond reach. ‘Jumping over’ is considered aparadha, and the living guru holds all the power to control, direct and affect as he pleases. But could the living Iskcon guru actually be holding the disciples back, keeping them stuck on his level, as we discussed in “Kaniskcon” - Prabhupada’s Spiritual Master Plan?"

PADA: But even an ordinary mundane person walking down the street knows that worshiping pedophiles as God's messiahs is against God and His teachings.

"The chanting of Hare Krishna is our main business, that is real initiation. And as you are all following my instruction, in that matter, the initiator is already there." (Srila Prabhupada Letter, 19/8/68)

The living guru coercion and the resultant institutional mindset can disempower and create unhealthy, co-dependent relationships rather than independently thoughtful empowering, and instilling of confidence that Krishna is in control of everything, including our spiritual lives, and that through our honesty and sincerity to follow Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, as above mentioned, God will guide and teach us, and that we have everything we need. Indeed we’re seeing a growing trend where Iskcon devotees are openly rejecting their living gurus as their less than pure and unmotivated activities are exposed.

“As the Supersoul, Lord Kṛṣṇa enlightens the devotee from within the heart and disperses the gloom of ignorance.

"The Lord gives the devotee the spiritual intelligence to attain Him.”
(Renunciation Through Wisdom 2.13)

Extreme examples of this spiritual debilitation can be found in disciples who refuse to give up the worship of their fallen living Iskcon guru (as outlined in the Angry Mother piece from my earlier article), even when that person has betrayed them and failed to act as an even half-decent disciple of their own spiritual master.

“My advice is always chant 16 rounds minimum and follow the four regulative principles.

“All of my disciples must agree on this point otherwise they are not my disciples.”
(Letter to Raja Laksmi 1976)

The fallen guru may have done things that honest men on the street wouldn’t dream of, and that a true Vaishnava would certainly never do. They may have committed one or more state crimes, and yet members of the society, (ex)disciples, well-wishers, and leadership may continue to hold that person in high regard, above even Prabhupada’s instructions, allowing them position and place within the society, enjoying service and facilities while being protected from the consequences of their degraded actions with zero accountability.

“They ignore the Vedic injunction ācāryopāsana—"One must worship the ācārya"—and Kṛṣṇa's statement in the Bhagavad-gītā (4.2) evaṁ paramparā-prāptam, "This supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession."

“Instead, to mislead the people in general they themselves become so-called ācāryas, but they do not even follow the principles of the ācāryas.”
(Sri Isopanisad 12, Purport)

In extremes of this extreme, we may see fallen and sinful men offered big worship and honour befitting a Mahant, accumulating disciples still, or being placed into samadhi in the holy ground of Vrndavana. And members of the society who dare point out the obvious may be threatened, assaulted, and in some instances, killed. 

“The Emperor is not naked, you just can’t see his fine gold clothes.” It would appear the living guru indoctrination runs deep.

“Śrī Īśopaniṣad confirms that these pseudo religionists are heading toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after the completion of their spiritual master business, which they conduct simply for sense gratification.”
(Sri Isopanisad 12, Purport)

———

When we study the early history of the movement, we see that HDG trusted Krishna would guide His devotees, and regularly sent disciples away from his personal overseeing to open new centres and preach, even as relatively young devotees. And when listening to Prabhupada’s lectures, we never really hear him say, “Without my advice you’ll all be finished, so you have to constantly be asking your living guru stuff.”

"In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is explained fully so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again.

“By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop.

"Krishna Consciousness is not a hackneyed thing but it is something which is our natural and original consciousness.

“Presently our consciousness is clouded just like a mirror becomes covered with dust. So the cleansing process is this chanting and hearing and doing some service and trying to please the Spiritual Master.

“By this process our consciousness becomes clear and we are able to understand everything."

(Srila Prabhupada Letter, November 22, 1974)

——

So what about the diksha guru that Iskcon insists we must accept to replace Srila Prabhupada? A living guru to guide us. An absolute essential lest we become lost in the complexity of the four regs and Bhagavad Gita remains meaningless hieroglyphics on a page? But what of Srila Prabhupada’s assurance: “By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed”? Why must we go and beg from someone for this knowledge via their all-merciful interference?

“Surrender by your intelligence but don't surrender your intelligence."

(SP to Bali Mardana, 1974)

To roll over and accept the post-1977 decree that Prabhupada is gone may be challenging for many, as it asks us to dismiss the experiential knowledge we’ve gained, in some cases over decades, that’s shown us we’re doing just fine without the living Iskcon guru they once pressed into the equation. What do we do with our very real, ‘living guru-free’ experience making steady, tangible advancement, getting realisations, losing a taste for matter, and feeling expanding spiritual happiness?

The living Iskcon guru seems something like the man at the restaurant who wants to be paid for assuring us that we feel full after eating a sumptuous meal he didn’t cook. Do we really need permission from a so called senior intermediary to directly experience Prabhupada’s presence in our lives?

——

“Bhakti does not depend on the age, Bhakti depends on sincerity of service.
“It’s not that because one man is older than me, therefore he’ll be greater devotee. No…

“This is real knowledge, to remain always insignificant before Guru, Krishna.
“If somebody thinks, “I have become more than my Guru, more than Krishna” then he is finished.

“That was the instruction of my Guru Maharaj, that bada vaisnava - “I am very big Vaisnava, everyone should come and obey my orders” - this is condemned position.”

(Srila Prabhupada: SB 7:9:3 - Feb 10, 1976 Mayapur, India)

——

Taking a morning walk with Prabhupada around Stow Lake in 2023 and hearing him speak is no less spiritually potent than it was in 1968, regardless of what Mahatma or others might say. For many of us, His Divine Grace is neither dead nor gone.

“Because for a serious student of devotion, Krishna is in his hand.”
(Srila Prabhupada: SB 7:9:3 - Feb 10, 1976 Mayapur, India)

I’ve seen many examples, and we have our own experience where the living Iskcon guru is long gone, and yet the ‘disciples,’ who were supposedly utterly dependent on, and totally bewildered and scripturally illiterate without said guru, are thriving free from the psychoses many an ex-disciple openly admits plagued them in the past. How do we convince these devotees that they need, or ever needed a living guru in place of Srila Prabhupada?

That the organisation calling itself Iskcon insists we need a living guru to make advancement raises genuine concerns. Based on logic and reason we might be forgiven for respectfully challenging, “How is it that the devotees acting as diksha gurus today themselves had very limited ‘living guru’ time (1966-77) with Srila Prabhupada, and yet somehow feel they still have direct access to the Acarya commentary?” If they expect us to swallow this, ‘haves and have nots’ philosophy they’ve got some explaining to do.

Wouldn’t the current Iskcon living guru model by default mean that access to the living spiritual guru stopped for all disciples the day Srila Prabhupada stopped living?

If they say the knowledge and guidance they’ve receive post-Prabhupada nurtures them still (and therefore feel they’re not simply stunted spiritual ten-year olds), then why not everyone go to the same available source and drink from that same well of knowledge?

Is it right that one group claim monopoly over the transcendental knowledge - the divya jana delivered by our undisputed ācārya-sampradāya - repackage it, and then on-sell it as a carefully controlled, branded, indispensable spiritual commodity available only at certain outlets? Capitalistic Spiritualism.
How do we to accept with full faith that Srila Prabhupada is good enough for some, but not for others? Did a chosen few receive some kind of Zap obtainable only in the presence of a living guru, and that’s why they no longer need a living guru, but we do?

The potential danger of having an Iskcon guru foisted upon us in the belief that only they can directly experience and understand Prabhupada, is that by inserting someone between us and HDG our natural opening of the heart and reawakening of an original loving relationship with the Lord could become tainted or contaminated by this third party intervention, interference and interpretation, born of whatever impurities sit within the heart of those less qualified than the pure devotee, Srila Prabhupada. Actually we’ve already seen this play out many times with unqualified meddling living gurus destroying spiritual lives and poisoning the well.

Certainly if we study the influence Iskcon gurus have had from the Big Eleven down side by side with Prabhupada’s unadulterated teachings, I think we’ll find two quite different realities. Many believe the Iskcon gurus are leading us down the garden path (toward the compost, not the roses), in a hapless, unauthorised mission shift. Would this have happened if members were given free access to Srila Prabhupada and his teachings without living guru sway over the faithful?
If the Founder-Acarya is sufficient after his disappearance to guide some (who we presume believe they’re making spiritual advancement still), then again it begs the question, why’s he not sufficient to guide others by the same means? Why do we need other acaryas if it’s obvious the sampradāya ācārya is more than capable of carrying out all the functions he’s being replaced to do?

Why this burning need to oust His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya of the Hare Krishna Movement if, after his physical departure, disciples felt no need to go off in search of a living replacement, but rather considered, and still consider our sampradaya ācāryas guidance and mercy more than adequate?

There’s something disingenuous about being told you have to have a living diksha guru by a man who for most of his spiritual life has not had a living diksha guru.

———

“Thus it is the duty of the ācārya to publish books that will help future candidates take up the method of service and become eligible to return home, back to Godhead, by the mercy of the Lord.

“Thus the devotees have been advised to refrain from four sinful activities—illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating and gambling—and to chant sixteen rounds a day.

“These are bona fide instructions.

“Kṛṣṇa will accept a devotee who strictly follows the regulative principles and the method prescribed in the various books and literatures published by the authorities.

“The ācārya gives the suitable method for crossing the ocean of nescience by accepting the boat of the Lord’s lotus feet, and if this method is strictly followed, the followers will ultimately reach the destination, by the grace of the Lord.

“This method is called ācārya-sampradāya. It is therefore said, sampradāya-vihīnā ye mantrās te niṣphalā matāḥ. (Padma Purāṇa)

“The ācārya-sampradāya is strictly bona fide. Therefore one must accept the ācārya-sampradāya; otherwise one’s endeavor will be futile.

“Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura therefore sings:
tāṅdera caraṇa sevi bhakta sane vāsa
janame janame haya, ei abhilāṣa

“One must worship the lotus feet of the ācārya and live within the society of devotees. Then one’s endeavor to cross over nescience will surely be successful.”
(Srimad Bhagavatam 10.2.31 Purport)

Prabhupada Festival 2023 Was a Bust (PADA)

 Janardana Maharaja

 

We need more molester messiah's club's folks

Telling Jayapataka to take sins is great?

You are ruining these guys lives.

=====================

The Old Retired Troopers Society

PADA: Thanks for your question MD, "what is my opinion of the recent Prabhupada Festival held in Malibu"? Well first of all, the previous Prabhupada festivals were held at the Los Angeles temple, made by Patrikananda das. But this was really a Jayapataka Festival, because Los Angeles actually worships JPS, the founder father of their pedophile messiah's guru process, more than they worship Srila Prabhupada. Maybe Los Angeles temple told them to go elsewhere because there are some problems with having a "Prabhupada festival" at Los Angeles temple which is really a Jayapataka temple. 

In fact people who want to worship Prabhupada can be banned, beaten and Sulochana was even killed around there. The people who worship Prabhupada are not in their pedophile messiah's club, so they have to be removed. The LAPD guys used to pull me over on my bike around Watseka and warn me, "you idiot, don't you know these people want to kill you"? Well yup. No kidding, we are not bowing down to people like JPS whose program causes Krishna's children to be mass beaten and perhaps also raped in the Holy Dham, so they wanted to get rid of us.

Even the local cops have this all figured out. Overall, anyone who does not worship their anal reconstructive surgery epidemic messiah's club there can get killed, yup, even the cops know what is going on there. 

As we all know the Jayapataka / Mayapur program has had maybe 40 years of children being mistreated, some beaten, some raped, some committed suicide and so forth. Some of these victims are suffering lifetime problems from having their their teeth knocked out, bones broken, stunted growth from being starved, anus raped and so on and so forth. And that is why Janardan Maharaja glorifies the leaders of that program like JPS, he is with that agenda -- self evident. 

So the Los Angeles festival is really all about glorifying their anal reconstructive surgery epidemic messiah's club for the past 45 years or so. Or as some victim of their process said, Mayapur has been "Auschwitz for kids." So Los Angeles likes to worship the leaders of their Auschwitz for kids program mainly, and -- kill us -- because we wanted to worship Srila Prabhupada. 

One person recently told me, "it seems to me -- their whole guru succession smells like rancid a**." Ummm jeepers, even I could not have summed them up better myself. And that explains why they invited Panca Dravida aka Janardana Maharaja over to Prabhupada fest. He was just recently bowing down to Jayapataka / Auschwitz for kids leader / in an effort to get his support for the Sridhara Maharaja program. 

And Janardan said that Jayapataka is doing great work, and everyone loves him. Yep, having kids molested, beaten, raped etc. in the Holy Dham is -- doing great work evidently. So anyone who glorifies a program of beating and raping Vaishnava children is welcomed there, and that is why we do not bother going ourselves, we are not in favor of promoting worshiping their "rancid a**" guru programs.   

Govinda dasi told me my idea of worshiping the acharya is "ritvik snitvik." I think she was with the Narayana Maharaja crew, and he was in Texas defending Tamal when we were in Texas having Tamal sued for mass molesting. So it always seems to come down to the same problem, there are people who are promoting the rancid a** guru process, and we are the bogus [non-pedophile guru] ritviks snitviks. 

And then they make pretend they have no idea why children are being starved, beaten, molested, raped, and "treated worse than people treat their dogs," according to one of their victims. But we all DO know why children are getting treated worse than dogs, because these people more or less co-created the Auschwitz for kids process, by omission or commission. 

To sum, yep Janardana maharaja is a cheer leader of Sridhara Maharaja, founder father of the bi-sexual 1936 guru process which had dissenters banned, beaten and killed. Then Sridhara became the darling of the GBC's homosexual pedophile guru process after 1977, and the whole regime of banning, beating, molesting, suing and killing started all over again. And that is why Janardana is made the Malibu key note speaker, he is a Jayapataka groupie and a follower of the Sridhara Maharaja homosexual and pedophile guru's cheer leader's club. 

They love that guy. Because he is one of the big advocates of the "smells like rancid a**" guru programs. Of course Guru das also shows up, and he is a big Radhanath fan club member. Another henchman for the pedophile guru process. ys pd

==========

Notice how the Radhanath process has been using the children to promote his pedophile guru program. Here the children are going to glorify the murderer of Vaishnavas. Yep, anyone who does not promote pedophiles as God's successors -- needs to be exterminated. And they are all working hand in glove, Radhanath, Jayapataka, and the Los Angeles temple authorities. And the LA Prabhupada fest cannot get away from this agenda, because they are part of it. Told ya! ys pd

angel108b@yahoo.com

 

Messing with children's brains.

Brain washing with toxic materials.

Hare Krishna Britain Interviews Puranjana Das VIDEO /ISKCON

 

Sahajiyas / Kali Chelas / Applied Anger / Saci Suta (VIDEO)

SAHAJIYAS

"These sahajiyās will come out of so many devotees. What can be done? From my Guru Mahārāja's disciples, so many sahajiyās came."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prabhupāda: Actually everyone knows that my Guru Mahārāja had thousands of disciples. So out of thousands of disciples, practically I am little successful. That everyone knows. Why? Because I firmly believed in the words of my guru. That's all. This is the... There may be many other Godbrother, maybe very learned and very advanced, whatever it may be, favored, and... Everyone claims that "I am the most favorite." And practical point of view... So I think sometimes that "Why this wonderful thing has happened to me?" So I search out. I search out only that I cent percent believe in the words of my spiritual... That's all, nothing else. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, āra nā koriho maneāśā **. Don't think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success.
----------------------------------------------------
Prabhupāda: These sahajiyās will come out of so many devotees. What can be done? From my Guru Mahārāja's disciples, so many sahajiyās came. These are called sahajiyās. Very easily they capture thing. So my Guru Mahārāja used to say, "When my disciples will be sahajiyā, it will be more dangerous." He used to say like that.
Room Conversation -- January
January 28, 1977, Bhuvaneśvara

=================

KALI CHELAS

Hmmm.....this is the old debate:

There is this "new age" idea that is so pervalent even in devotee circles:

1. "If someone hits you on your right cheek, you shoud turn the right cheek"

2. " if there are troubles there are due to my past bad karma and my lack of KC"

Although forgiveness should be given, that does not mean we should turn a blind eye on injustices im the name of forgiveness.

If somebody forgives an offender that is very noble,but that does not mean we shoud keep quiet, be inactive and let the ofender abuse the next victim.

Many times we are in trouble because of our bad karma, but sometimes we are in trouble just because we refuse to "go with the herd" and keep quiet.

You don't believe me?

Lord Jesus Christ was sinless, yet he was killed on a cross. Prahlada maharaja was harassed so much my his own father Hiranyakasipu. Srila Prabhupada struggled so much all alone with NO help from his Godbrothers. So why did they not help him?? Was it due to SP's bad karma or to something else?

After all, his going to the West was a desire of their spiritual master BSST. And Lord Ramachandra met so much trouble yet He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself,so he is clearly without sin.

So many people go through so much trouble because of their previous karma amd others go through it by the will of Providence, yet God is supremely just.

 All the intricacies of karma are very difficult to ascertain - esspecially for a common man. It is a fact that there are still some honest people and there are also a lot of dishonest people.

It is also a fact that nobody is without fault except God and the residents of the spiritual world, but that does not mean that a person who steals a piece of bread is on the same level as criminals who are prepared to kill to get more money, although they already have enough.

And now the final BS: " whatever fault one finds in others, is in him: one sees in others what is within him." Hmm. Pardon me, but that is pure mayavada diguised as false sainthood. If this is in fact and whatever fault I see in others is actually in me, then other people are just mirrors to me and therefore mere objects, not persons and as such not capable of their of actions and devoid of character and their personality. This is the very definition of mayavada.

The other extreme is to blame an honest person for your own faults,because you see your own faults in another person. This is called a shadow projection in psychology and is a real thing that happens on a daily basis, but that does not mean there are no wrongs and that everyone who dares to acuse another is a faultfinder or somehow (how??) less spiritually advanced than others.

But let's see what SP says about this:

"Of course, if somebody calls a thief a thief, he is NOT a fault-finder. 

But if one calles  an honest man a thief, that is a great offence."

(BG ch 16,purport)

This is very clear: even if one is not a faultless saint without a sin, he can call a thief a thief. That is honesty and a fact. But he must be very careful not to acuse an honest man. This are SP words not mine.

Here there is more:

" there are many devotees that asume themselves to be devotees, but in their hearts they have NOT accepted Krisna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. For them  the fruit of DS - going home to Godhead - will never be tasted." (BG ch 9)

Acaryas are even more direct concerning them and name such fake devotees that chant, wear dhotis and neck beeds and tilak: the acaryas name them kali - chelas.

There are put among the devotees by Kali to wreak havoc between devotees.

Again, this are the words of Srila Prabhupada and the acaryas, not mine.

And if one thinks that there are no demons among devotees, think again.

If one thinks that molesting, raping and abusing children is a "momentary weakness due to lust" think again: people who are "normal" and are conquered by lust, resort to prostitutes, not to child molestation.

So clearly those who did those things to children are obviously demons in the ruse of devotees - kali - chelas -  "servants of Kali" as the acaryas have named them.

Of course there is the famous verse "api sa duracara".

This is warning that sometimes even an honest devotee does abominable things, like i.e. a homosexual succumbs to his carnal desires, and we should not condemn such a person - IF he is an honest devotee.

That is verse "api sa duracara".

But if someone thinks that he is a saint because he learned about child molestation and abuse and chose to "turn away" in the name of "api sa duracara" - especially if he was in a position to do something about it,thus enabling the abuse to go on for decades - such a person is clearly delusional and can not be helped.

Sorry to break it to some of you, but the way to sainthood is not that cheap.

================

 

APPLYING ANGER

If devotees express their anger on social media about child abuse or being victims of abuse in ISKCON, it’s condescending to tell them not to air their views for all to see.

This is legitimate anger. It’s right for devotees to get angry when fellow devotees and children are abused. It’s a normal human response. By telling these angry devotees to curb their anger, to refer to appropriate authorities and to behave like sdhus is an insult to them. How is it that not many more devotees are angry like them? This is part of the problem. Too many of us stay quiet. That’s why inaction is prevalent. Such inaction cause devotees to turn to social media. Who can blame them? I don’t.

Whether their anger is aimed at gurus, sannyasis or the GBC for their inaction or ignorance, leaders have to bear responsibility. If leaders wish to present themselves as having a cool head and to marginalise those angry devotees, is this normal human behaviour? To compare angry devotees to lynch mobs or vigilantes is unfair and passing the buck on to them. Typical institutional responses such as these are the hallmark of all faiths and groups trying to minimise fallout.
The angry voices are also in response to correct channels of grievance being overwhelmed or ineffectual. These angry voices aren’t anti-ISKCON as some will tell you. As usual, expect more of the same when the response of authorities is delayed, ignored, mishandled or hushed.

Ys KK Dasa.

====================

"So this initiation process is ācāryopāsanam,"

----------
Ācāryopāsanam: "You have to worship ācārya."
--------------
"That is the first thing, ācāryopāsanam. But these rascals, they do not do that."
-
"Unless one comes to the ācārya disciplic succession, whatever nonsense he speaks, it is all useless. This is the most important thing, ācāryopāsanam."
Morning Walk
—
March 30, 1974, Bombay
"We are not so learned as you are, but we follow the ācārya. And it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, ācāryopāsanam."
Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 8.128
—
Bhuvaneśvara, January 24, 1977
"So there is no other alternative than to follow this principle, follow this principle, to follow the opinion of ācārya. Ācāryopāsanam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, "If if you want to make progress in knowledge, then you have to follow." Ācāryopāsanam: "You have to worship ācārya." Ācāryopāsanam."
/classes/cc/adi/3/87-88/new_york/december/27/1966
"Ācārya is the representative of God. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. If you offer prayers, honor to the ācārya, then Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is pleased. To please Him you have to please His representative. "If you love me, love my dog." And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said ācāryopāsanam. Ācāryopāsanam. We have to worship the ācārya."
Śrī Vyāsa-pūjā Lecture
—
Hyderabad, August 19, 1976
"Kṛṣṇa says ācāryopāsanam. We have to understand things through the ācāryas. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. One who is not following the footsteps of the ācāryas, he cannot understand anything."
Pandal Lecture
—
Bombay, March 31, 1971
"Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended, ācāryopāsanam. If you want real knowledge, then you must take knowledge from the ācāryas or the ācārya-paramparā. Then there is knowledge. Otherwise it is ignorance."
Lecture with Translator
—
Sanand, December 25, 1975
"Yes. As soon as you give up the ācārya-paramparā system, then it is lost."
Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland,
Professor of Modern Indian History
—
May 20, 1975, Melbourne
"Therefore one must approach a guru to learn everything rightly. This is Vedic injunction. Tat tvaṁ puruṣam eva, ācāryopāsanam. Read Bhagavad-gītā. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Ācāryopāsanam. This process of knowledge is to worship ācārya. Who's got ācārya, he knows. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda."
Morning Walk
—
May 27, 1976, Honolulu
"Ācāryopāsanam, accepting spiritual master, this is also one of the items, twenty items, for advancing in knowledge. So this initiation process is ācāryopāsanam, beginning of worshiping the spiritual master. "
Initiation Lecture
—
London, August 22, 1971

Women Gurus (Madhudvisa dasa) / ISKCON's Satsvarupa on May 28th 1977

 Women Gurus…

At its annual meetings, ISKCON’s Governing Body Commission (GBC) discussed a core issue, the qualifications of guru. In a quiet, but radical move it was accepted that women could be gurus in ISKCON.

In the Vaisnava tradition, to which ISKCON belongs, the guru is a vital part of the spiritual life of the devotee. In ISKCON’s history, a number of gurus have deviated from the high standards expected of them and this has caused much grief amongst their disciples and in the Society at large. Therefore it is not surprising that it is an issue that the GBC returns to often.

In what many will regard as a radical step, the GBC gave formal assent to women taking on the role of initiating guru.

========

Dear Madhudvisa dasa I know that you are quite busy and I do not want to bother you. I also myself work 6-days a week and do not have much time eather, But please if you could answer this question I would be very greatfull. How can the GBC appoint women gurus? Your servant Steve.

Dear Steve

Hare Krishna! please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

ISKCON’s guru system simply does not work. They have appointed so many gurus who have practically all turned out to be bogus. This has destroyed the lives of so many devotees searching after spiritual life who have been coerced to accept unqualified men as paramahamsas, pure devotees. These devotees have been convinced to take initiation from “ISKCON gurus”, to surrender to them and to serve them. 

We have seen it over and over again, these unqualified gurus — while completely unable to deliver the real seed of devotion to their disciples — are very expert at taking service from their disciples. These “ISKCON gurus” accept service on the premise that they are pure devotees, liberated souls capable of delivering their disciples from the blazing fire of this material world (samsara davanala lidha loka…). 

But they are unable to pour the waters of mercy on their disciples like the rain which extinguishes the forest fire. They are simply incapable of performing the task the guru has to perform. That is to plant the seed of devotion, the bhakti-lata bija, within the hearts of their disciples, and then to cultivate that tiny sprouting creeper of devotion until it becomes a fully-grown healthy plant producing flowers, fruits and seeds.

So the current guru system in ISKCON has failed and the GBC more or less accept it has failed, they are always looking for some way to “fix” their guru sustem but refuse to accept the only sollution — take shelter of Srila Prabhupada. So this recent GBC resolution stating ISKCON will now introduce women gurus is meaningless noise. They do not have any guru-tattva, they do not have any qualified gurus, they have no idea about guru at all. So we can take it as the mutterings of crazy men. We can not take ISKCON very seriously on anything unfortunately.

The reality is a real Vaisnava guru is very rare, and he is self-effulgent like the Sun. As it is not difficult to spot the Sun in the sky — the Sun is self-effulgent — everyone can see the Sun immediately. Similarly a real Vaisnava guru is self-effulgent like the Sun. No one has to point him out, he does not require “authorization” from the GBC. Actually if a “guru” feels he needs to work under the authority of the GBC then we can understand immediately he is bogus. A real spiritual master does not work under any such eclestical body. He has his relationship with his guru and he works under the authority of his guru. He has to have the freedom to instruct his disciples as he sees fit. He can not work in a system where he does not have the ultimate authority over his disciples. 

The disciple has to surrender to his spiritual master and follow his instructions as his life and soul, and the spiritual master has to be a pure devotee, a paramahamsa and he has to have full authority over his disciples and must be able to instruct them as their absolute authority. That is the system from the beginning of time and it will never change. 

ISKCON’s GBC have styled themselves as the “guru police.” They have taken it as their business to approve and suspend “gurus” as they so choose and according to their politics of the day. No real guru would put himself under the authority of such a political body. He can not put himself in a position where he may be prevented from giving good instruction to his disciples. This may well happen in ISKCON if a guru’s instruction to his disciples was not in line with some of the politics of the GBC. In such a case the GBC could take away the “gurus” “badge” and take his disciples away.

No bona fide guru could work in such a situation.

So you can know it for absolutely sure that there are no qualified gurus in ISKCON.

This idea of ISKCON appointing women gurus is simply a joke. They have never succeeded in appointing even one bona fide guru, and they never will, because gurus are not appointed… No disciple in ISKCON has been properly initiated since 1977 and as we can very plainly see the whole organization has collapsed into a dysfunctional mess. Now they are adding women “gurus”…

The underlying idea is that the GBC think they can “make” gurus by taking some women and giving her a “guru badge.” But surely they have seen this does not work with all the “guru badges” they have issued to men over many years. A guru is not appointed by the GBC. A Vaisnava guru is self-effulgent…

So the GBC can not make gurus. All they can do is wait for self-effulgent gurus to appear — and of course they will not accept him — because he will not agree to be under the authority of the GBC… A real guru is very rare. And we are very fortunate to have the “gold standard” with Srila Prabhupada and we have so much access to Srila Prabhupada through his books and his vani (instructions) in the form of audio and video recordings. So we can take advantage of the association and instructions of Srila Prabhupada and serve him.

If a self effulgent guru appears that is nice. And really it does not matter, man or women, we are not the body. However, a spirit soul in the body of a women should act in such a way that other spirit souls in women’s bodies, if they follow her example, will advance spiritually. So the good qualities for a women are chastity, submission to her husband, shyness, etc. So a Vaisnava lady will not push herself forward to become a guru as we understand it. Such a thing is unheard of in the entire tradition of Gaudia Vaisnavism. There is no example of this in the past.

“As a man must follow great personalities like Brahma and Narada, a woman must follow the path of such ideal women as Sita, Mandodari and Draupadi. By staying chaste and faithful to her husband, a woman enriches herself with supernatural power.”

So it is not at all appropriate for a women to push herself forward and try to lord it over the sannyasis and brahmacaris for example. It would turn the whole social system upside down and simply create a great disturbance. Rather a pure devotee in a women’s body will act as a guru but in the role of a women. One can read the “Teachings of Queen Kunti” to see the great prayers of a great Vaisnava in the body of a women.

So overall, don’t take any notice of the crazy mutterings emanating from ISKCON, rather take shelter of Srila Prabhupada by reading his books and all the real knowledge will be revealed to you.

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

Your servant

Madhudvisa dasa

61 Responses to ISKCON GBC approves Women Gurus…

Areya says: Urmila mata would make a good guru and I would, in another time, take instruction from her. Male gurus should not have female disciples and women require different counseling. Just plain commonsense. Hare Krishna.

Reply

Madhudvisa dasa says: You don’t understand what guru is. I suggest you read Srila Prabhupada’s books and find out.

arikith roy chowdhury says:

Hare Krishna Prabhu

PAMHO

All glories to srila prabhupada. If we say all ISKCON gurus are bogus then aren’t we questioning prabhupada’s ability to make pure devotees? As only a pure devotee can become a bonafide guru. I have no intention to offend you. I am just asking. Ys Arikith Roy Chowdhury

Reply

Madhudvisa dasa says:

You misunderstand. No one can become a pure devotee without a pure devotee as his spiritual master. Srila Prabhupada is the topmost qualified pure devotee of Krishna. But even Srila Prabhupada, even Krishna Himself, can not “make” pure devotees. You do not understand what a pure devotee is. Devotee is surrender to Krishna, and this is possible only by surrendering to Krishna’s pure devotee. So surrender is something only the devotee can do. It is not something that Krishna or the spiritual master can “make” the devotee do.

So Prabhupada is giving us all the absolute truth and begging us to surrender to Krishna, but we refuse to surrender to Krishna. That is our disease, that is the disease of the material world. So the reality is almost no one surrenders. That is why, sa mahatma sudurlabha, “Such a great soul is very, very rare.”

So actually it is very, very rare to find a pure devotee, a bonafide guru, but ISKCON has made it very common. So ISKCON are cheating. They are presenting conditioned souls as gurus, but a conditioned soul can not be a spiritual master.

So the ISKCON guru system is totally corrupted, totally bogus, and you will never find a bona fide spiritual master in today’s ISCKCON. If somehow there was a bona fide spiritual master in ISKCON they would drive him out very quickly.

So there is no question of anyone, including Krishna, “making” someone a pure devotee. Krishna is presenting the knowledge in Bhagavad-gita, “Surrender to Me.” And Prabhupada is begging us, “Surrender to Krishna,” but we refuse to surrender.

So it is in our hands. We can choose to surrender to Srila Prabhupada and surrender to Krishna, but we don’t want to do that. That is our disease, that is ISKCON’s disease, that is the disease of everyone in the material world.

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

Vishvesh Oswal says:

Hare Krishna Madhudvisa prabhu ,

By Your Grace finally i’m going to start cooking and offer to Srila Prabhupada . My parents agreed to construct small Kitchen (2nd kitchen) in my own bedroom, so I can cook without interfering in between them. So i want to ask one question, Should I storage all the raw material (rice, flour, pulses, spices etc) in separate container ??? or Can i just get whatever needed to cook from our main Kitchen stock containers ??? And getting new utensils for prasadam as they cooking using onion and garlic , just have doubt regarding raw material usage . HARIBOL !!!!!!!!!

Madhudvisa dasa says:

Hare Krishna Vishvesh Prabhu. Very good news Prabhu. You don’t need separate stocks of the raw materials. 

Rupa Raghunath Swami says:

From the moment that a woman WANTS to be Guru, she cannot be; a truly high mataji would never accept to be Guru. 

>> (S.B. – 6-18-33 and 34) – PATI-GURU -.

For the woman, the supreme demigod, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the husband, Lord Vāsudeva, the husband of the goddess of fortune. “Pati-guru”, that is, spiritual master-husband. The husband represents the Lord as an object of worship for the woman.

Dr Sunayana Ghodgaonkar says:

You mean to say Radha Rani is inferior to Krishna. My obeisances. Their is nothing inferior superior. It’s only outer dressing.

Tukaram das says:

So… we are not this body… but a woman is her body? I do not think you can have it both ways.

Madhudvisa dasa says:

Of course, we are not the bodies. So on the spiritual platform there is no difference between a man and a women. But in reality, of course, in the material world, it is very rare to find anyone who is not on the material platform. Although we are not the body, still the bodies are different, and different bodies have different abilities and strengths and weaknesses. 

An ant is also not the body, an ant is not different from you or me spiritually. But clearly the body of the ant causes him to interact with the material world in a different way and gives him a different set of abilities to a spirit soul in a human body. Similarly a man’s body is different form a woman’s body. Both types of bodies provide a different set of abilities. So the Vedic system is based on the principle of engaging everyone in service according to their abilities and qualities.

So a woman is not her body, but because she is in a woman’s body at the moment that body provides her with a certain set of abilities that mean she will be very successful in certain activities, whereas other activities, she will find quite difficult compared to if she was in a man’s body.

So the point is not that the spirt soul in a woman’s body is different from the spirit soul in a man’s body, she is a different individual living entity of course, but the quality is the same. The same spirit soul who is in a woman’s body now can take a man’s body in her next life. So the soul is not male or female in the way we see material bodies as male and female. However, as the spirit soul in an ant’s body has a certain set of abilities, because of the facilities the ant’s body provides him to interact with the material word, so also a spirit soul in a man’s body has a certain set of abilities and a spirit soul in a woman’s body has a different set of abilities.

So for society to function in the proper way these different abilities of a man’s body and a woman’s body have to be recognized. Not that there is any difference at all on the spiritual platform. But the reality is hardly anyone is on the spiritual platform, so we have to live in the material world in such a way that gradually the whole society will become spiritually elevated, and to achieve this, it is essential to recognize there are different types of people with different abilities and strengths, not just man and woman, but also brahmana, ksatrya, vaisha and sudra. For society to function properly the abilities of everyone have to be acknowledged and everyone needs to be engaged according to their abilities. Not that everyone is the same. This is called Varnasrama-dharma, you can study it to understand it more.

Aman says:

Hare Krishna!

Dandavat Pranam to all the devotees

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Unfortunately, ISKCON is finished now as said by Madhudvisa Prabhu in his articles and comments. I have always believed Madhudvisa Prabhu and in last three days I have seen it practically as I had to go to one ISKCON centre to do japa. The so-called devotees there can be seen talking on mobile phones much more than chanting Hare Krishna. 

Most of them mostly only show that they are doing japa. In the temple, many people come to sing sahajiya songs and those sung in Bhagavata-saptaha in India. The so-called devotees are absolutely body conscious. There is no prasadam in the temple as it is not being offered to Srila Prabhupada first. 

Only reason I went there to japa is the place is peaceful enough to do japa and there are Deities of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna and one can offer obeisances unto Them and have the darshan of Their Lordships. So it is useless even to talk about current ISKCON now. I’m posting this just to warn everyone who reads it to stay away from ISKCON. Please increase your attachment with Srila Prabhupada by reading his books.

Madhudvisa dasa says:

Yes. But there’s not much point talking about how ISKCON has failed. We have to try instead to do some practical thing to help the people get Prabhupada’s books, hear the chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra from the lips of pure devotees and get the chance to relish real Krsna Prasadam, etc…

Aman says:

Hare Krishna Prabhu

Yes Prabhu! This is what is my aim in life now. To become a pure devotee of Lord Krishna by distributing Srila Prabhupada’s books, letting everyone hear the chanting of Hare Krishna mantra and distribute real Krishna prasadam.

Mark Goodwin says:

This article was published in the second half of January. Did the GBC actually make this decision at that time, i.e., is it a DONE DEAL? Or was it a proposal? Did it not wait until now (the third week of March) at the Mayapur Annual Meeting in order to formalize such a proposal (or decision)? Kindly provide, as soon as practical, an update as to whether or not the GBC has now, at its Annual Meeting, given its imprimatur for female members of the institution it controls to wait in queue in order to receive the Certificate of No Objection? Is it cent-per-cent a fact that women can now become regular gurus in the institution, i.e., that they can become diksha-gurus previous to reaching uttama-adhikari?

Madhudvisa dasa says:

This is actually an old article. A few years old. There is a feminist faction in ISKCON always pushing for women gurus, women sannyasis, etc, etc… I do not follow what ISKCON is doing. So I have no idea how far down the path they have gone with this yet…

Karan gayadeen says:

Hare krsna if the sucession is contaminated then devotees will become inhuman and demonic there are no system to deal with concerns .

Madhudvisa dasa says:

Succession is not contaminated. Srila Prabhupada is living in his original books. Get them from:

https://krishnastore.com/books-srila-prabhupada-om-21_38.html

Totally 100% pure and uncontaminated Prabhupada. Stay away from contaminated ISKCON, take shelter of Srila Prabhupada in his pure original books. Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

Ravinder Verma says:

Hare Krsna Prabhu!

It is good to know that someone like you is still carrying out Srila Prabhupada’s original work. How can I associate with you? I mean personally. Do you visit India? If so, let me know any such plans. I would be very delighted.

Reply

Madhudvisa dasa says:

You can not associate with me personally, that is not my purpose. My purpose is to convince you that Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee of Krishna and that Srila Prabhupada is still living in his transcendental books and that you please get all of Srila Prabhupada’s original books from:

https://krishnastore.com

AND READ THEM AND follow the personal instructions Srila Prabhupada gives you as you read his books. Chant Hare Krishna and be happy

Edward Jackson says:

Which women are recognized as Gurus?

Madhudvisa dasa says:

So far none as far as I know. You would have to ask ISKCON this for a definitive answer, not me, I am not part of ISKCON.

Vinaik says:

Hare Krishna Prabhu though last part of your write-up regarding woman gurus is quite understandable.But their is self contradicting substance regarding working of GBC. At one part you are saying shelter of Prabhupad is priority. On the other hand you are mentioning complete freedom of Guru in his teachings as he wills. The GBC is presiding over the GURU system just to make shore that priority of Prabhpada teachings is maintained and the GURU in Iskcon is abiding in maintaining this primary function.If GURU is having total independence regarding his preaching then whole purpose of maintaining Prabhupda as founder acharya and siksha GURU of all will be defeated.

Madhudvisa dasa says:

Hare Krishna Vinaik

Prabhupada is the guru of ISKCON. So there is no room in ISKCON for other gurus. If someone is actually qualified guru then let him start his own preaching mission. That is the way since time immemorial. Guru has his own preaching mission. Guru is supposed to be a pure devotee of Krishna, supposed to be non-different from Krishna, supposed to be a transparent via-medium to Krishna, so if someone is actually a qualified guru then he is to be worshiped on the same level as Krishna. He can not be limited or regulated by the GBC who are admittedly a committee of conditioned souls.

So this whole ISKCON system, GBC, gurus, etc, has degenerated into something quite different from the Krishna consciousness taught to us by Srila Prabhupada. Today’s ISKCON is totally bogus, the ‘gurus’ who submit themselves to this system are completely unqualified and even if they are qualified they would be unable to guide and deliver their disciples because the GBC would interfere with that.

So yes, by definition, bona fide guru is non-different from Krishna, transparent via-medium to Krishna, and not subject to rules and regulations imposed by any GBC or other group. Bona fide guru is connected to Krishna and he forms his disciples connection to Krishna. That’s it. There’s no room for any GBC or any other body to interfere with that.

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

Filip says:

Hare Krishna prabhu. Am i wrong doing by serving in ISKCON farm to be able to follow sadhana set by Srila Prabhupad? I was out searching for community who know about the cheating of his disciples, but i failed and stopped following Srila Prabhupada consequently. Isn’t it better here?

Madhudvisa dasa says:

Yes, you have to stay in the place where you can follow the regulative principles and chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra and READ PPRABHUPADA’S books. If you know what Prabhupada is teaching us then you can test what devotees say and know if they are saying the correct things or not.

Sydney Hoffman says:

Hare Krsna! Is the Hare Krsna mahamantra effective only when you do find an initiating bona fide guru or not? Or even the female gurus? Prabhupada is our teacher, by reading his books. I didn’t think there were any bona-fide gurus that Prabhupada approved prior to his disappearance. Thank you! Haribol!

Madhudvisa dasa says:

Yes. Any mantra has to be received from a bona fide spiritual master for it to be effective. Srila Prabhupada is a bona fide spiritual master, so receive the Hare Krishna mantra from him. You can not get the Hare Krishna mantra from someone who is not a pure devotee of Krishna because he does not have the Hare Krishna mantra himself. He can not give what he does not have.

Krishna says:

Also one more thing…

Can you please tell me where can I find the original books written by prabhupada…. As I am in desperate need of it…. I have pdfs but I need to buy them since I can’t carry PDF everywhere and I like to read sleep with the Bhagavad Gita and that’s the only original hard copy that I have. Please help me. You are the only sane person I have found online for Krishna consciousness. And also I only use iskcon for Arati and to buy puja stuff otherwise I stay away. Like u said. Thankyou for letting us know that there are still some genuine devotees of lord Krishna out there.

Radhe Krishna.

Madhudvisa dasa says:

Hare Krishna Shaily. You can get Srila Prabhupada’s original books at:

https://krishnastore.com/books-srila-prabhupada-om-21_38.html

Krishna says:

@madhudvisa das,

Radhe Krishna,

Might I tell you and please don’t take it as an offence but neither do you have the opportunity to decide whether a woman can become a guru or not, not the iskcon.

Since as far as I remember prabhupada was appointed as the guru by lord Krishna so only Krishna has the authority to decide who will become a guru…. Mirabai might haven’t become a guru but she was certainly by people who knew her and we’re in contact with her.

Please don’t say unnecessary things here. I completely agree with your statement about GBC however I don’t agree with you on the fact that women can become gurus or not…. Since we are not the body and also gurumaa gargi was one of the famous gurus in a female body. Guru can only be a realized soul given the authority by lord Krishna himself. Therefore you and I have no business in deciding whether one can become a guru or not since like you said “we are not the body”.

Also I don’t know much about gadadhar dad swami of iskcon….. Is he following still prabhupada or chanakya Pandit? He is very male body friendly and also I understand that he is scared of women but nobody has given him the right to exploit women through humour by saying wrong things about them. He is generalizing women and that is against prabhpadas teachings. I hope you being in contact with iskcon or as ex member. I don’t know you well can say something about this to him. I think he thinks about women too much.

Has a woman ever broken his heart that bad that he is so much against women. Not all women are same and that is written in the Vedas too…. There are different types of women.

Besides no disrespect to chanakya Pandit but he was only a pandit or a vipra… I don’t think he was as great our guru srila prabhupada

Madhudvisa dasa says:

Hare Krishna!

Yes. Guru is guru. And if guru appears in woman’s body then she is guru. Vaisnava guru is identified by his symptoms. He is able to spread Krishna consciousness and make disciples all over the world. When an actual Vaisnava guru is preaching he is very obvious. It is like the sun rising in the sky. It dispels the darkness everywhere. So guru is guru. You can not make rules and regulations about it.

So the problem here is not that GBC wants to make women gurus, the point is GBC has no power to ‘make’ or ‘appoint’ gurus. Real guru is very rare and he appears by Krishna’s mercy and it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the GBC. So it does not matter what they say or do in regard to guru. They have no power in this area. The power is with Krishna and the pure devotees of Krishna.

Neelkanth says:

Hare Krishna Dandvat Pranaam to all !!

I met devotees who have accepted Srila Prabhupad as Guru and are taking Ritvik Initiation as per Srila Prabhupad’s July 9th 1977 letter …knows as Prabhupadanugas and Iam also observing disciples of current ISKCON guru’s. I found few from Prabhupadanugas also having politics,devotee co-operation not as per Srila Prabhupad’s instructions. At the same time, devotee co-operation in ISKCON may be better than Prabhupadanugas, also preaching reached to more number of youth and families compared to Prabhupadanugas. Can somebody guide with whom i should associate because we need devotee association….Iam struggling since last 7 years. Also my son , he needs Gurukula education as per Srila Prabhupad’s instruction to save him from the bad association and slaughterhouse education/culture from Karmi schools.

nyasi refused to teach anything & then this unknown person opened the scam .

Deepesh says:

I dont know which HELL they are going to suffer after they depart from this world… if i would have been there in Yamaraja’s place i would have given them some low animals body for a million years to suffer, for what they all have been doing… they have NO shame at all.. treating GURU (Srila Prabhupada) as an ordinary person.. no one ever can take his positions and what all plans they are making.. all Useless people… Simply take shelter of Srila Prabhupada & Krishna and Be Happy..

Jai Srila Prabhupada..

ravinder says:

January 3, 2010 at 4:34 pm

what is nonsense going in the minds of these devotees,how can they think like that? These all r cheap ways to enjoy a woman.These fallen gurus r cheating to people and pushing them and even many devotees lives to hell.But this is not going to work.They will we cursed by Srila Prabhupada and Krishna.

ONLY SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THE REAL GURU !!!

THAT’S IT! THAT’S IT! THAT’S IT!

JAI SRILA PRABHUPADA!

RRDD says:

I am spiting on every step that Rohini Suta and Harikes Svamy stepped on Slavian Countries. Two of them have been performing third reich tactic activity while they have been visiting Slavian Countries with the years.

Madhudvisa dasa 

My first contact with a Hare Krishna was a most merciful Mataji in Oxford Street, London who sold me a "Higher Taste" cook book in 1984 while I was on holidays there. I started seriously reading Srila Prabhupada's books in Australia 1985 and by 1986 Srila Prabhupada had convinced me "Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead" and "we should surrender to Krishna." I joined the Hare Krishnas in Perth, Western Australia in 1986. Since then I have been chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, reading and distributing Srila Prabhupada's books and preaching as much as I can. That's my life and full-time occupation now really. I like it more than anything I've ever experienced before. Srila Prabhupada's books are so amazing... Even after reading them all many times they're still fresh and new. They are truly transcendental! That's it really. Now I'm just hankering to once again see the world chant Hare Krishna, dance and feast and float away in the ecstasy of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana movement as it did in Srila Prabhupada's physical presence. Let the whole world drown in the ecstatic flood of love of Krishna!

It Has Always Been Clear to Me that Prabhuapda’s Books Should Never be Changed… →

No One–Not Even Darwin–Can Be Independent [Prabhupada Speaks Out] →

=============

SATSVARUPA ON MAY 28th 1977

HENRY DOKTORSKI: 

May 28, 1977: On this date in history 46 years ago, senior disciples meet with Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada to discuss how initiations of new disciples are to be conducted in the future.

ON THE DAY FOLLOWING Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada’s warning that men will pose as guru and attempt to take over ISKCON, eighteen leading disciples met with their spiritual master in his personal quarters at Krishna Balarama Mandir in Vrindaban, especially to inquire about the process for initiating new disciples in the future. Satsvarupa dasa Goswami (Stephen Guarino)—the GBC representative for Miami, Gainesville, Houston, Dallas, St. Louis, Denver and Berkeley, and editor-in-chief of Back to Godhead magazine—was chosen as spokesman. Tamal Krishna Goswami, Prabhupada’s secretary at the time, also spoke up frequently during the conversation.

A GBC sub committee had selected five questions to ask Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada: (1) How long should GBC members remain in office? (2) How can GBC members who leave be replaced? (3) In the absence of Srila Prabhupada what is the procedure for first, second and sannyasa initiations? (4) What is the relationship of the person who gives this initiation to the person he gives it to? (5) Is there any provision for publication of other translations of Vaishnava scriptures by the BBT after the disappearance of Srila Prabhupada?

Unfortunately, Satsvarupa was not able to clearly articulate the third and fourth questions which the GBC sub committee had commissioned him to ask. Later, he confessed that he felt “shy and uneasy” and “foolish and awkward” during this important conversation with his spiritual master. Consequently, Satsvarupa’s questions were difficult to understand. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada’s answers, therefore, were also not easy to understand, and since then, scholars and pundits have espoused very different and diametrically opposed interpretations of this important conversation.

The important portion of the May 28, 1977 conversation with Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, which concerned initiations at present and after Prabhupada’s departure in the future, was more or less botched by the two sannyasis who asked the questions. Although it is very muddled by Satsvarupa and Tamal Krishna, some claim it still can be conceptually understood.

Satsvarupa asked how initiations should be conducted in the future, particularly after Prabhupada’s passing. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada’s immediate answer is simple and straightforward: He would recommend some of his disciples to act as ritvik acharyas (deputy priests). None of the GBC members at the meeting, however, could imagine such a radical interpretation: that their spiritual master intended after his passing that the disciplic succession would be continued by ritvik representation.

An order to continue the parampara by ritvik representation would have been unprecedented in the history of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. To their knowledge, this had never been done before. No one had heard of a disciple accepting diksa from a departed spiritual master. They thought that a disciple could only accept diksa from a living guru. Therefore, the leading GBC secretaries assumed that the system of ritvik initiations would be a temporary measure; after Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada passed away, the ritvik priests would automatically become authorized diksa gurus and begin initiating their own disciples. They had heard their master say many times: “All my disciples should become gurus.
(Gold, Guns and God, Vol. 3, p. 203, Eleven Naked Emperors, p 30)