PADA: Bhagavan dasa (William Erlichman) is evidently promoting Gaura Keshava dasa as an authority. He was the main person who instituted ISKCON's reversing the offerings -- originally from guru to Krishna, changed to -- Krishna to guru. Why? Just in case your guru is bogus, at least Krishna gets the offering.
Really?
Well why not figure out why we are promoting bogus gurus in the first place! That means, instead of just admitting their gurus are not authentic, they are just bending the rules into making bogus guru worship authorized. Guess what? It is not authorized.
And according to Bhagavat Maharaja, Gaura Keshava has many other problems. If I recall properly, Gaura Keshava was doing some fire sacrifices at New Vrndavana many years ago, evidently not aware that Kirtanananda is not a pure devotee.
Meanwhile one of Bhagavan's children told me, since I am an important contributor, he is going to get me unblocked from Bhagavan's forum, but that never happens. Anyway, worship of conditioned souls as God's successors is a bad idea, and bending the rules to make it appear as authorized, does not actually make it authorized. ys pd
angel108b@yahoo.com
GAURA KESHAVA DAS HAS BEEN AN ERRANT INFLUENCE
Widely known as a learned brahmana and scholar, Gaura Keshava das was a leading member of the Shastric Advisory Council (SAC) and he became ISKCON’s advising brahmana, touring ISKCON to train brahmanas and pujaris. Based upon his own defective opinion, after studying shastra, Gaudiya Math, sampradayas, and “technicalities,” he advocated reversing Srila Prabhupada’s ascending order of offering in temple or home altar worship, to a descending order, with Krishna first and last, down to the ISKCON conditioned “guru.”
Most of ISKCON in India, Europe, Australia, and elsewhere adopted the changed deity worship procedure, supported by Jayapataka, Bhavananda, many GBCs. ISKCON pujaris mentally seek the permission, in a meaningless exercise of imagination, of their conditioned “guru’s” photo on the altar and then make offerings first to Radha Krishna, then Gaur Nitai, the Guru parampara, Srila Prabhupada, and last to their “guru.”
But this was not how Srila Prabhupada taught us to offer altar worship or food, where we offer first to Srila Prabhupada, then previous acharyas, Gaura Nitai, and lastly Radha Krishna. Srila Prabhupada warned us not to make changes, but ISKCON has made serious changes to the deity worship and food offerings. This was an attempt to solve the quandary of conditioned “gurus” not being spiritually able to pass the worship up the disciplic succession.
But can a conditioned “guru” induce Krishna to accept worship directly, even if he asks his false guru for permission? The contradictions and anomalies that compound and multiply when ISKCON adopts defective initiation and guru doctrines cannot be solved with adding more defective doctrines to be applied in deity worship. These deity worship changes took place when ISKCON “gurus.”
Bhavananda and others were discovered in sinful activities. Should his disciples should first offer to him, or to Krishna and then to him? The GBC decided he should not be offered bhoga, but only prasadam, for his own good and that of others, thus changing the process of deity worship, adopting the descending sequence that is practiced in Gaudiya Math temples.
Some temples are still offering in the original ascending order (like Los Angeles). Gaura Keshava offensively wrote March 29, 2009: “… we must follow the shastra, and not imitate his personal example when it does not technically follow shastra. The system of arotike in all Gaudiya Vaishnava temples is to first pay obeisance to the guru and take his permission for worshipping Lord Krishna.
"Then worship Krishna first and then Radha, then Mahaprabhu and the guru parampara in descending (senior to junior) order, lastly to the assembled devotees. In ISKCON Srila Prabhupada instituted another order offering the items to the guru first. In this case, the item cannot technically be offered afterwards to the Lord, having first been enjoyed by the guru. This is technically not correct.
"Therefore we must in this case follow shastra and adapt our worship method to the one followed by all Vaishnava sampradayas. The doctrine or principle of worshiping the guru first is correct but the technicality of HOW that is to be done is incorrect.
"This system is followed in most Europe temples where I standardized the deity worship in the 1980’ s. It is not followed in some temples like Los Angeles, as some Prabhupada disciples find it hard to accept. They have no experience of the correct technical details as practiced in India.”
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KRISHNA AND HIS COWS
GAURA KESHAVA DAS HAS BEEN AN ERRANT INFLUENCE
Widely known as a learned brahmana and scholar, Gaura Keshava das was a leading member of the Shastric Advisory Council (SAC) and he became ISKCON’s advising brahmana, touring ISKCON to train brahmanas and pujaris. Based upon his own defective opinion, after studying shastra, Gaudiya Math, sampradayas, and “technicalities,” he advocated reversing Srila Prabhupada’s ascending order of offering in temple or home altar worship, to a descending order, with Krishna first and last, down to the ISKCON conditioned “guru.”
Most of ISKCON in India, Europe, Australia, and elsewhere adopted the changed deity worship procedure, supported by Jayapataka, Bhavananda, many GBCs. ISKCON pujaris mentally seek the permission, in a meaningless exercise of imagination, of their conditioned “guru’s” photo on the altar and then make offerings first to Radha Krishna, then Gaur Nitai, the Guru parampara, Srila Prabhupada, and last to their “guru.”
But this was not how Srila Prabhupada taught us to offer altar worship or food, where we offer first to Srila Prabhupada, then previous acharyas, Gaura Nitai, and lastly Radha Krishna. Srila Prabhupada warned us not to make changes, but ISKCON has made serious changes to the deity worship and food offerings. This was an attempt to solve the quandary of conditioned “gurus” not being spiritually able to pass the worship up the disciplic succession.
But can a conditioned “guru” induce Krishna to accept worship directly, even if he asks his false guru for permission? The contradictions and anomalies that compound and multiply when ISKCON adopts defective initiation and guru doctrines cannot be solved with adding more defective doctrines to be applied in deity worship. These deity worship changes took place when ISKCON “gurus.”
Bhavananda and others were discovered in sinful activities. Should his disciples should first offer to him, or to Krishna and then to him? The GBC decided he should not be offered bhoga, but only prasadam, for his own good and that of others, thus changing the process of deity worship, adopting the descending sequence that is practiced in Gaudiya Math temples.
Some temples are still offering in the original ascending order (like Los Angeles). Gaura Keshava offensively wrote March 29, 2009: “… we must follow the shastra, and not imitate his personal example when it does not technically follow shastra. The system of arotike in all Gaudiya Vaishnava temples is to first pay obeisance to the guru and take his permission for worshipping Lord Krishna.
"Then worship Krishna first and then Radha, then Mahaprabhu and the guru parampara in descending (senior to junior) order, lastly to the assembled devotees. In ISKCON Srila Prabhupada instituted another order offering the items to the guru first. In this case, the item cannot technically be offered afterwards to the Lord, having first been enjoyed by the guru. This is technically not correct.
"Therefore we must in this case follow shastra and adapt our worship method to the one followed by all Vaishnava sampradayas. The doctrine or principle of worshiping the guru first is correct but the technicality of HOW that is to be done is incorrect.
"This system is followed in most Europe temples where I standardized the deity worship in the 1980’ s. It is not followed in some temples like Los Angeles, as some Prabhupada disciples find it hard to accept. They have no experience of the correct technical details as practiced in India.”
======
KRISHNA AND HIS COWS
"Mother Yasoda would then address Nanda Maharaja, "See my dear son, whose eyes are white, who has a turban on His head, a wrapper on His body and leg bells which tinkle very sweetly on His feet. He is coming near, along with all of His surabhi calves, and just see how He is wandering upon the sacred land of Vrndavana!"
Nectar of Devotion, Chapter 43
"The cows in Krsna's abode are also liberated souls. They are called surabhi cows. There are many popular pictures showing how Krsna loves the cows, how He embraces and kisses them. That passive relationship with Krsna is called santa. Their perfect happiness is achieved when Krsna comes and simply touches them."
Science of Self-Realization, Chapter 8
Science of Self-Realization, Chapter 8
"Krsna always tends the cows. His name is cowherd boy. To become animal of Krsna is a great, great fortune. It is not ordinary thing. Any associate of Krsna, either His cowherd boyfriends or calf or cows, or the Vrndavana trees, plants, flowers or water, they are all devotees of Krsna. They like to serve Krsna in different capacities. Somebody is serving Krsna as animal. Somebody is serving Krsna as fruits and flowers, as tree, as Yamuna water, or the beautiful cowherds men and damsels or Krsna's father and mother, so many with Krsna. Krsna is not impersonal.
So He has got so many lovers. Krsna also loves them. So Krsna's another name is pasu-pala, pasu-pala-pankaja. He is, mean, tender of the animals. Surabhir abhipalayantam. He takes pleasure in tending the cows, surabhi. These are surabhi cows, not these ordinary cows, surabhi cows. Surabhi cows means you can milk the cow as many times as you like and as much milk as you like. That is surabhi."
Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam, 06-26-74, Melbourne
These cows are the Lord's pet animals. From the surabhi cows one can take as much milk as one needs, and one may milk these cows as many times as he desires. Of the surabhi cows, all of whom are very dear to Lord Krsna, seven are said to be the most important. They are: Mangala, Pingala, Ganga, Pisangi, Manikastani, Hamsi and Vamsipriya. Srimati Radharan also has pet surabhi cows, among whom Sunada, Yamuna and Bahula are the most important, along with Tungi, Her chubby pet calf.
In addition to these pet surabhi cows, many other types of pets belong to Krsna and Radharani. Krsna's pet dogs are Vyaghra and Bhramaraka. Padmagandha and Pisangaksa are His pet oxen, Suranga is His pet deer, and Dadhilobha is His monkey. Kalasvana is His pet swan, Tandavika His pet peacock, and Daksa and Vicaksana are His pet parrots.
Radharni's old pet monkey is called Kakkhati. Rangini is Her pet doe, Carucnadrika is Her pet cakori bird, and Madhuri is Her pet elephant. Tundikeri, Her pet swan, is fond of swimming in Radha-kunda. Suksmadhi and Subha, Her two parrots, like to perfectly imitate Lalita-devi's playful jokes spoken to her master and mistress (Sri Sri Radha-Krsna).
By this wonderful repetition the parrots astonish the gopis.
"I think the drones that are buzzing all around You must have been Your devotees in their past lives. They cannot leave Your company because no one can be a better, more affectionate master than You. You are the supreme and original Personality of Godhead, and the drones are just trying to spread Your glories by chanting every moment. I think some of them must be great sages, devotees of Your Lordship, and they are disguising themselves in the form of drones because they are unable to give up Your company even for a moment. My dear brother, You are the supreme worshipable Godhead.
Just see how the peacocks in great ecstasy are dancing before You. The deer, whose behavior is just like the gopis, are welcoming You with the same affection. And the cuckoos who are residing in this forest are receiving You with great joy, because they consider that Your appearance is so auspicious in their home. Even though they are trees and animals, these residents of Vrndavana are glorifying You. They are prepared to welcome You to their best capacity, as is the practice of great souls in receiving another great soul at home. As for the land, it is so pious and fortunate that the footprints of Your lotus feet are marking its body."
Krsna Book, Chapter 15
Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
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PADA: Remember when they said Russia needs to invade Ukraine to stop the dangerous alleged Bio-labs there? Well as it turns out -- Russia already blew up the dam and sent the contents of entire bio labs, chemical plants, paint factories, millions of gallons of gasoline, oil, and 100 tons of sewage into the ocean and now they are having 100s of tons of oil floating around the same sea. And so now there is another mass of dead animals and fish floating in the sea.
The Russians are in fact the actual bio hazard ... there are now thousands and thousands of birds that are covered in oil. The Russian oil ships? OK some are 60 years old ships taken out of retirement. Oil only leaks 2 gallons a day they said ... what could go wrong here?
Wow, they estimate now that millions and millions of fish and birds, and numerous other living beings will all SUFFER BADLY and then die, as well as unlimited small and microorganisms that the fish need to eat. It will be a horrible death for these creatures. This is the real bio-hazard -- in case no one noticed.
It looks like some of these ocean going ships were in fact never made for the ocean, and are only light weight river going ships, made for calm waters, and are not made for large ocean waves ... but they knew that all along ... and we knew that all along.
To me it is ironic that in the name of saving the planet from biological disasters, they are making some of the worst bio disasters in history -- themselves. We are here to fix it! OK actually -- we are here to make it WAY worse.
Wow, just like the ISKCON GBC! We are going to fix everything by making a pile of gurus! Ummm, nope, you are going to make things worse. How worse? Way worse. So many living entities have to suffer and die, all so that -- we can save the world! And 95% of the Prabhupada devotees have to be removed from ISKCON -- to save ISKCON. Oh oh pilgrims! The only good news is, all this makes people like me want to save -- ourselves -- from all these dubious folks!
ys pd
BVD: Creating problems ... in the name of "a solution" ... is the DNA of the demons and asuras. As soon as they claim ... they are here to help, we need to get out of there!
ReplyDeleteMost of us did ... we escaped ISKCON hell hole and had to ... to save ourselves. But the children who were left there ??? had no escape. Tragically. The people who are stuck there ... will have to suffer because the leaders have asura DNA.
Ukraine? Made into a wasteland basket case ... just like everything else Russia touches. Whatever it touches ... starts to die right away. And unfortunate ... same happens in ISKCON.
Once GBC has control ... it starts to have problems. And the smart people leave first. Most others leave after. That is why our temple was collecting SSI crazy pay checks from a bunch of temple people. They could only attract the mentally impaired. Still pretty much the same.
SD Dasi: Looks like ... the finger pointing is getting to be the main topic. Heck yeah! This one supported this one!!! And that one supported that one!!! Heck yeah!
ReplyDeleteI personally don't believe anyone was appointed as guru. And Bhagavan das ACBS is one of the worst cheaters on the big guru lie. Bhagavat is with Narayan Maharaja, another cheater and friend of the big liars self appointed GBC gurus.
Rupanuga was right there when all these assembled jokers were appointed. It is all lies. Why cannot any ... or all of them ... just admit? We went along with the guru appointment ... to get OUR seat at the table with the false appointees. And we threw everyone else under the bus ... to keep our seat.
Simple isn't it? Simple for the simple and complicated for the crooked. They keep shoveling out more excuses ... but cannot explain ... why they supported any of this ... at any time.
Admit. You were wrong. And people suffered. Like a lot of children. And people like me. And you had no right to make anyone else suffer to promote ... the big guru appointment lie. There was no guru appointment. These people do not act, speak, behave, think like a pure devotee, or have any possible amount of purity ... when they are ... liars.
And mother earth can tolerate the weight of any heavy thing ... except liars. None of these jokers were EVER gurus. Lets get over it already!