Back in 1996 I still thought the Rtvik-system was bogus. I hadn't studied it yet at that time, later when I did, realized it was not bogus. But, in 1996 I wrote an e-paper and submitted to the GBC. The article was titled "The System of Management shall remain As It Is - No Need of ANY Change".
PADA: This is the first problem -- most devotees could not understand -- in the 1980s and beyond -- that the managers of the Church -- are not the messiahs of the Church. And a GBC or "managerial body" is subject to the four defects, and thus cannot be in charge of "managing" the gurus, messiahs and acharyas in any case.
There are no examples of any acharyas or messiahs being "managed" by a Church managerial council or legislation body made up of conditioned souls. Krishna dictates to the guru, not us conditioned souls. It was highly evident right away -- by 1979 for sure -- that the leaders were making big mistakes, and therefore they did not have the qualification [or adhikary] of being "administrators of God's messiahs."
Never mind there is no history of ANY acharyas being "managed" by a Church council type board. And the idea is itself offensive -- that the acharya is subordinated to a committee and body of conditioned souls -- who are prone to the four defects, if not sometimes illicit and fallen debauchee behaviors.
Srila Prabhupada says, when we say the successors to God are defective, or they need the controlling advice of the defective, it is the same as saying God is defective. It is a mundane idea. How can the defective "manage" and advise the pure devotee -- at all? Where is any of this mentioned in shastra?
"Henceforward, the impure will manage and advise the pure." Absurdity right out of the gate. Also -- not anything Srila Prabhupada ever stated.
The neophyte managers are simply supposed to make sure the standards are being maintained by the other neophytes in the institution, and see that things are functioning properly, and it does not degrade. Just like the managers of a corporation are supposed to manage the business, and not try to manage God and His successors, which sounds like insanity on steroids to the common man. "You are going to manage God and His successors? Have you been taking your meds?"
This was taken from Srila Prabhupada's last Will. I gave a list of quotes from SP's letters to various GBC where SP listed the duties he had prescribed the GBC to adhere to. Most of them were aimed at the GBC keeping up the standards he had set, and making sure all the devotees were advancing in their KC. The GBC was to constantly travel from temple to temple with a Sankirtan Party, engaging the members by his own example in distributing his books, and engaging in street Sankirtan.
PADA: That is good, but to say that the GBC are "gurus," i.e. that they are getting direct dictation from God, and yet they need our superior admonishing and advice means, we are taking over the guidance away from Krishna. If the guru is speaking as God dictates, and Ameyatma and others have to write to these gurus to chastise them for not following properly, that is the same as saying people like Ameyatma are superior to God. Now Ameyatma, or other reformers like Ravindra swarupa and Trivrikrama, are going to replace Krishna and "dictate to the guru."
Because now, these reformers have to retrain, advise, chastise, monitor, suspend and correct the people who are already getting direct advice from God. We find this going on all the time in ISKCON. Well prabhu, we need to chastise these ISKCON acharyas, who are speaking as God dictates. We need to chastise the people who are being guided by God? How did we become the advisors of God? Why not just admit, these deviants are NOT getting ANY dictation from God, because they are not gurus.
He wrote Madhudvisa that the duty of the GBC was to give managerial guidance to the temples, give spiritual guidance to the members, and to resolve the personal issues of the members. And, in a number of letters he wrote the GBC is to preach his teachings, and spiritually guide the newer devotees.
In my article to the GBC I pointed out how the GBC was no longer doing practically any of these duties - in the capacity as GBC. Those who called themselves 'gurus' were doing only some of these duties, but, only for those who they considered were their 'disciples'. But, not for others. Thus, I pointed out all of this amounted to drastic Changes to the System of Management, which in SP's last Will he instructed there was to be NO Changes.
PADA: Right, we cannot juxtapose Church administrators with the platform of being another Jesus.
I proposed that the GBC had no choice but to restore all those duties back to the GBC. Doing so would restore the position and respect for the GBC, and would resolved nearly all other issues facing the movement.
PADA: The GBC no longer exists, since most of them are gurus and GBC simultaneously. And since the GBC evidently thinks conditioned souls are gurus, they are worthless in any case.
Not doing to, I told them that the GBC was at that time in a disobedient position, a fallen and weak position because they had disobeyed SP's formal instruction given in his final Will. I told them unless and until they rectify this, and restore those duties back to the GBC, then ISKCON will continue to fall apart and go further and further away from the mission that SP set up and wanted to be continued - without change.
I did not support the Rtvik system at that time. I wrote that article without considering where this left the gurus, i was only concentrating on the problems ISKCON was facing, what the underlying cause was, and how to rectify it.
PADA: The underlying problem is -- that Krishna and His gurus are not EVER engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children and other deviations, and then the successors to God are needing to be reformed, monitored, chastised, suspended, removed and / or excommunicated by a managerial body. The conditioned souls are subordinate to the guru and not vice versa. The idea that someone like Satsvarupa is going to be the advisor, reformer, corrector, fixer upper, and chastiser of Krishna's dictation to His successors is total foolishness.
After sending the article to the GBC I got response from Hrdayananda on behalf of the GBC. He said that the GBC rejects my proposal. He said by restoring all those duties back to the GBC they would have to take those functions away from the gurus, he said that giving spiritual guidance and addressing personal issues was the duty only of the Guru, and by taking those away, then the gurus would be left just performing the initiation ceremonies, and the GBC would then do everything else.
He said that would make the ISKCON gurus no more then just Rtvik priests. Since the GBC considers the Rtvik system bogus, they must reject my proposal to restore those duties (that were prescribed to them by SP) back to the GBC. He further wrote that the GBC considers my paper supports the Rtvik idea, and therefore the GBC now considered me a Rtvik-Vadi.
I was totally shocked by their response. They were rejecting the idea that the GBC had to obey SP's order to them "Not To Change" the system he had set up. And, how dare they call me a Rtvik-Vadi... I sent rebuttals to the GBC, but they just ignored me, and never responded after that. Later I saw they passed a resolution declaring the No Need of Any Change idea, a Rtvik idea, which was now considered poisonous and must be avoided.
That wasn't my idea, that was SP's idea.
Their rejection of this and their calling me a rtvik supporter is what drove me to finally study the Rtvik idea in depth, and the result was, even though i didn't support the Rtvik system when i wrote the No Need of Any Change paper, I came to the realization that the Rtvik system was Not bogus, and that it was the system SP wanted us to continue to follow.
And, it all started because of my study and conclusion that the system had changed, and that those changes needed to be undone. Not doing so, left the GBC in a fallen, disobedient and useless position.
PADA: Again, the 11 declared they are the "acharya board" in 1978, and these "acharyas" have taken over from the GBC and hijacked the GBC. In sum, there is no GBC when an acharya board takes over from them, and that started right out of the gate in 1978. Anyway lots of credit to Ameyatma, he did wake up and he now promotes the right idea, an administrator is not a messiah. ys pd
angel108b@yahoo.com
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FEEDBACK ON SPOUSAL ABUSE LETTER
AD Goswami: I had already read this posted by another devotee. I am absolutely speechless and I am realizing that we are still seeing only the tip of the iceberg in regard to the abuse of children, women, and probably the elderly. And ISKCON keeps celebrating itself – Disneyland Rathayatras, another Abhishek, another “Holy Name” and “Sadhu Sanga” retreat and so on. And being “merciful” to yet more criminals in Vaishnava attire.
A Dasa: And sign up for the Radhadesh Mellows… The sooner the Iskcon GBC Titanic sinks, the better.
AD Goswami: Yes, none of them will ever change. Nobody there with a spine or of some real stature.
PD: But they have a lot of spine when they are challenged, bring on the goons.
T Devi Dasi: 100%! Tip of the iceberg... Many demons in our movement. Many people too scared, keeping quiet about these monsters ... but eventually what's done in the dark will be brought to the light.
M Dasi: ... and so the show goes on ...
PA: Jayadvaita lip service regards to his favourite disciple ... covering up for him many a time. His true colours were always known to all GBC governing body commission garbha Griha who per usual turned a blind eye. Just standard domestic violence, not a big issue. The Iskcon male code of silence on abuse ... psychology of MAN. What is your price Jaiadvata Goura Bhakta Vrinda Devi Dasi?
Did you ever pay the piper?
D Dasi: I wrote a plea on the official Bhaktivedanta Manor site begging devotees to help S Devidasi several years ago when this all was happening and not a single devotee responded or even acknowledged the post.
A Dasa: Shameful. How can we ever face Srila Prabhupada?
S Devidasi: I didn’t realise you did that, thank you so much. I was advised by the temple's lawyer that the temple cannot get involved with devotee personal matters. So it’s not surprising nobody offered any response to your post.
I’m in a happier position now, I managed to get my divorce in the end, but mainly I’ve learnt how to free my mind and heart from all the pain.
I’m not upset nor do I regret anything that happened. We clearly had to go through this difficult journey together, it was part of our karma and a test of our faith. He was a devotee for years and has offered service and built up spiritual credits. I know he lost his way, but I remember what Srila Prahbupada said that devotees are precious like bomber pilots. It takes many years of training and care, to loose even one was very regrettable so we must do whatever we can to bring them back. Devotees are precious to the Lord.
I have no anger towards him, I learnt how to forgive and see my past as having burnt off karma, it has also strengthened my spiritual connection and made me more resilient. I know what happened was wrong, and I advise anyone else experiencing abuse to please seek help. Do not suffer in silence. If those around you do not want to get involved, there are other people outside the institution that will help.
This post was not intended to focus on him, but mainly to see how abuse can escalate and take many different roles. It’s not just physical and mental mistreatment by one person but also collective isolation and abandonment by those you trust. [And the institution you trusted].
But after reading The Four Agreements, I’m at peace with all and everything that has happened. I don’t wish to cause anyone discomfort by writing this post, nor to make my ex a target. I am sure he has his own difficulties and karmic suffering, (the police have probably caught him by now), I just hope he doesn’t waste this life and finds a way to serve Krishna again, even simply just chanting a round a day, this human life is too precious to waste.
What has happened is already in the past, i do not need any apology, I already moved on and forgiven, I pray he uses this life wisely. Krishna never gives up on us. You have been a very dear friend, and I am fortunate to have reconnected with you once again. Thank you so much for your support pleading on my behalf. It means a lot knowing I had someone in my corner.
AD Goswami: Shocking that so many devotees do not even have the common decency of the people we are trying to preach to. The mundane people have more compassion for victims than the so-called Vaishnavas.
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