Narayan Maharaja Preaching Mayavada (Update)

[PADA: Narayan Maharaja is preaching that we do not fall from being with Krishna, because we were never with Krishna. He says Sridhara Maharaja is correct, we originated in brahmajyoti. OK that is mayavada.

Of course, on the other hand Narayan Maharaja supported Tamal's guru program that worships illicit sex with men, women and children as gurus and Krishna's pure acharya associates. Thus, no one falls from Vaikuntha, because they are pure, but it is common that pure devotees fall into illicit sex with men, women and children. And pure devotees are sometime pedophiles in the material world. Wait! What!

When we were in Mayapura in 1971 many Gaudiya Matha people were protesting the use of "Back to Godhead," saying we were never with Godhead. Srila Prabhupada said, my God brothers do not know we were once with Krishna because they are tinged with mayavada. They thought Sridhara Maharaja was correct when he said we originated in brahmajyoti. So they were not able to understand the acharya.  

And Jadurani and others support all this rubbish, that pure devotee are never falling, but simultaneously, often falling. Yep! Pure devotees never fall down, except when they are the type of GBC "gurus" / pure devotees / acharyas / that Narayan Maharaja and his disciples like Tamal endorse, those who are illicit sex, drunks, drug addicts, porno swamis and pedophiles, then -- pure devotees do fall down! And Jadurani does not see the problem with all this?

Sorry, Srila Prabhupada says we have forgot our relationship with Krishna. That means, that relationship existed previously. ys pd]

Originally, all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) because their original home is Goloka Vrindavana or Vaikuntha.

Krsna never interferes with the jiva-soul's free will, even when they choose to reject Him.

Srila Prabhupada - "There are two kinds of marginal living entities, nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha because of the spiritual world and material worlds. However, the actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity (jiva-soul) is nitya-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, the jiva-soul can become again nitya-siddha. So, the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas again nitya-siddha." (New York Lecture on Caitanya Caritamrta, July 13, 1976)

Nitya-siddha is when the marginal living entity (jiva-soul) is in their natural pure spiritual bodily state, eternally liberated in Goloka Vrndavana or Vaikuntha with Krsna or Visnu.

The nitya-baddha condition is when the jiva-souls are in an unnatural impure state of reality eternally conditioned in the material creation selfishly serving one's own interests unaware of their permanently original position of being nitya-siddha.

This means all the living entities in the category of marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are originally nitya-siddha and fully Krsna conscious. Nitya-siddha means fully Krsna conscious in one's original position as Krsna's eternal servant.
The jiva-souls can never become God (Visnu-tattva).

The marginal living entity or jiva-souls can choose to be either nitya-siddha, that means eternally liberated, or nitya-baddha, which means eternally conditioned.
The nitya siddha spiritual bodily form in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha is the original position and home of the marginal living entities within the eternal presence of Goloka Vrindavana and Vaikuntha.

Srila Prabhupada – “So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence; that is force.” (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)

Srila Prabhupada - Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is "free will." Unless there is a chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is "free will" then? If I act only one-sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing; it is bad, but still, he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes)

Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, "yes, you can go." Otherwise, what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will." (Morning Walk Cheviot Hills May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.”

(Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "Your question about one's relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa, 4/25/1970.)

Srila Prabhupada - ''When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But, when the supreme marginal potency is in contact with the spiritual potency, Harā, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Record Album, New York City USA 1966)

Srila Prabhupada – "Where are the spirit souls coming from, these spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities." (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense, everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna, he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna, he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas again nitya-siddha, it is a difficult task." (London lecture on Bhagavad-Gita 13-14, July 14, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "There are three kinds of liberated persons; they are called-
1) sadhan siddha,
2) kripa siddha,
3) nitya siddha.

When one is actually on the siddha platform, there is no such distinction as to who is sadhan, kripa, or nitya siddha.

When one is siddha, there is no distinction what is what. Just like when the river water glides down to the Atlantic ocean, nobody can distinguish which portion was the Hudson River or some other river." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "Nitya baddhas are within this material world. Beginning from Brahma down to a small ant, insignificant ant, they are all nitya-baddha. Anyone who is in this material world they are nitya-baddha." (Lecture on Bhagavad-Gita 13-14, July 14, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "However, the actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas again nitya-siddha." (New York Lecture on Caitanya-Caritamrta, July 13, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, every living entity is eternally uncontaminated, although he may be in the material touch. This is the version of the Vedas. Asanga ayam purusha-the living entity is uncontaminated. Just like when there is a drop of oil in water, you can immediately distinguish the oil from the water, and the water never mixes with the oil. Similarly, a living entity, although in material contact, is always distinct from the matter." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - “Actually, we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But, we have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation. Krsna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krsna, so Krsna has given an opportunity: ‘All right. Imitate’. So this situation, our contact with matter, is just like dream. 

Actually, we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krsna consciousness. . . we can break this material connection at any moment as soon as we come to the point of Krsna conscious. We can simply give up that illusory condition at any moment. At any moment. This is the position. We are not fallen. We are thinking fallen. So we have to give up this nonsense thinking. Then we are liberated.”

(Bhagavatam lecture in Tokyo, April 20, 1972)

Srila Prabhupada - “Eternally conditioned means we do not know when we have been conditioned like this. It is not possible to trace out the history, many, many, many Brahma’s lives are happening, not only one." (Lecture in New York City, January 9, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada - “There is history, but that is not possible to trace out. Therefore, it is said anadi . . . Anadi means the creation. Creation before creation I contaminated this desire.” (Bhagavatam lecture in Bombay, January 1, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada - "It is impossible to trace out our history. Vaisnava poets say, therefore, anadi karma-phale, which means that these actions and reactions of one’s activity cannot be traced, for they may even continue from the last millennium of Brahma’s birth to the next millenium."

(Bhagavatam lecture on verse 44 of Canto Three, Chapter thirty-one Aug 1974).

Devotee - "In the spiritual sky, when the living entity is in his pure state of consciousness, does something act upon him to make him illusioned at that point, also?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes. Just like Jaya-Vijaya. They committed offense, there is possibility even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world." (Bhagavad Gita lecture of July 4, 1974)

It is not Maya and her material energy causing the jiva-souls to leave or fall down from Vaikuntha because there is no material nature (Maya) in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana that forces the jiva-soul to leave Krsna, Maya's temptation and material energy do not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana however, free will does exist there.

Srila Prabhupada - ''The next question about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness; he does not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness, immediately he is fallen down." (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls, we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.”
(Original Hare Krsna "Happening record album" New York December 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down.” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)

Srila Prabhupada – ''Regarding your questions about how and from where the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa, 4/25/1970.)

Srila Prabhupada – "Where are the spirit souls coming from, these spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities." (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada – “So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore, Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.”
(Bhagavad Gita as it is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly, we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore, many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)

Acyutananda - ''But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming ftom there, he never returns to the material creation."

Srila Prabhupada - ''But if he likes, he can return."

Acyutananda - ''He can return?''

Srila Prabhupada - ''That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown."(Morning Walk, February 19, 1976, Mayapur)

Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we could fall down in the material world?"

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France).

Syamasundara - "Can we predict that returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however, some do come back?''

Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."

Syamasundara - "And some come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes. Otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."

Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"

Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson)

In Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana personal voluntary expressions of loving exchanges are always encouraged by Krsna in His relationship with the jiva-souls. This adds flavour, variety and mystery to their association with the Lord.
This means the Kingdom of God (Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha) are not a one-sided dominating impersonal domain devoid of "free will" or voluntary service.

Denying free will does not allow or encourage voluntary personal contributions (offerings) expressed in a two-way exchange, that can only expand, enrich and flavour one's eternal relationship with Krsna (God).

Loving service to Krsna and exchanges with Him cannot exist if there is only a one-sided affiliate of total supremacy or preeminence.

The fact is genuine loving relations and service are based on free will which includes loving exhanges between two, and is never a one-sided dominating affair!

Free will only has meaning when the jiva-souls can express themselves in a two-sided relationship with Krsna or even reject Him if they choose.

Unless the jiva-souls can make their own choice to do these things, then there is no question of having free will.

Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities is a two-arm form like Krsna's Body.

Devotee – “Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."

Hari-sauri – “How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?”

Srila Prabhupada – “[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."

Hari-sauri - “They are covered in the spiritual world?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body.

That is spiritual life. There is no restriction.

If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975)

Lord Balarama expands as Maha-Visnu.

Srila Prabhupada - "Balarāma, the first expansion of Kṛṣṇa, expands Himself in five forms:

(1) Mahā-saṅkarṣaṇa,
(2) Kāraṇodakaśāyī,
(3) Garbhodakaśāyī,
(4) Kṣīrodakaśāyī,
(5) Śeṣa.

These five plenary portions are responsible for both the spiritual and material cosmic manifestations.

In these five forms, Lord Balarāma assists Lord Kṛṣṇa in His activities.
The first four of these forms are responsible for the cosmic manifestations, whereas Śeṣa is responsible for personal service to the Lord.

Śeṣa is called Ananta, or unlimited, because He assists the Personality of Godhead in His unlimited expansions by performing an unlimited variety of services.
Śrī Balarāma is the servitor Godhead who serves Lord Kṛṣṇa in all affairs of existence and knowledge.

Lord Nityānanda Prabhu, who is the same servitor Godhead, Balarāma, performs the same service to Lord Gaurāṅga by constant association." (CC Adi 5.10, Translation and Purport).