pada @ angel108b@yahoo.com
- GBC 2006 Resolutions
The Guru Services Committee (GSC), a standing committee of the Governing Body Commission, the global leadership of ISKCON, has the mandate to assist and support ISKCON gurus in their service to Srila Prabhupada and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. To achieve this end, face-to-face retreats for gurus have been organized by the GSC in the past to facilitate association and exchange amongst these illustrious Vaishnavas. However, it’s been several years since such an event was organized. The pandemic made in-person meetings even more difficult.
But many are taking advantage of the online opportunities now available, as seen by the encouraging response of the conference; where more than 40 ISKCON diksa gurus participated.
Anuttama dasa, Global Minister for ISKCON Communications and a member of the GSC, welcomed the participants and introduced the theme Challenges of Being a Guru in ISKCON, a topic the GSC felt would be of interest for all.
[PADA: Yep. The followers of Lokanath told me -- goofy jerks like Anuttama, Malati, Badrinaryan and others have to be removed -- before they would ever agree to remove Lokanath. They cited that Anuttama's folks are going along with many deviations like "Krishna West," gay marriages, women's diksha gurus, annotating the books, and a host of other bogus projects.
What is the most difficult service in the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON)? Most probably, it’s to serve as a diksa guru, or initiating spiritual master.
[PADA: Well right, it is difficult to claim to be another messiah, when you aren't one. Happens to bogus messiahs all the time. Oh no, Jayatirtha is suffering fall down "because he took too many sins." Right, he thought he was another Jesus, but he wasn't, and neither are any of the rest of this lot qualified to be another Jesus -- who can absorb sins.
Yup! Jim Jones, David Koresh, Charles Manson, and all sorts of odds and ends "successors to Jesus" had difficult and "hard struggles." No kidding! Cheating is always a struggle!]
On Saturday, 5th of June, the GSC hosted a three-hour online conference for ISKCON diksa gurus. This was the first of its kind as a virtual event. The event was titled the "Challenges of Being a Guru in ISKCON".
[PADA: OK Srila Prabhupada says it is one of the ten offense to consider that the guru is a struggling neophyte conditioned soul. These guys come right out and say "our gurus are struggling with conditioned defects." That is the entire theme of their whole messiah's conference.
We are messiahs, and that is why we are struggling with conditioned defects, like for example -- a number of our messiahs fell into illicit sex with men, women and children. OK maybe also sex with goats, we cannot say for certain.
And then we also had to "struggle hard" with our program of banning, beating, suing and killing the dissenters who were exposing us! Man! It is really hard to get Krishna's devotees banned, beat, sued and killed these days! It is real difficult!]
But many are taking advantage of the online opportunities now available, as seen by the encouraging response of the conference; where more than 40 ISKCON diksa gurus participated.
Anuttama dasa, Global Minister for ISKCON Communications and a member of the GSC, welcomed the participants and introduced the theme Challenges of Being a Guru in ISKCON, a topic the GSC felt would be of interest for all.
[PADA: Yep. The followers of Lokanath told me -- goofy jerks like Anuttama, Malati, Badrinaryan and others have to be removed -- before they would ever agree to remove Lokanath. They cited that Anuttama's folks are going along with many deviations like "Krishna West," gay marriages, women's diksha gurus, annotating the books, and a host of other bogus projects.
I almost have to agree with the Lokanath folks on these points! Of course, that means their mainstream diksha gurus do not even agree with one another on the basic points of siddhanta! We are as good as Jesus, and that is why we have to censure, suspend and remove another one of our Jesus'. And we will only remove our bogus Jesus, when you remove yours!]
Three diksa gurus, of various backgrounds and experiences, delivered introductory twenty-minute talks to inspire further discussion. Each speaker highlighted different aspects of the challenges of serving as a guru in ISKCON.
Atmanivedana Swami, the first speaker, analyzed some of the historical problems that were faced by devotees serving as gurus after Srila Prabhupada’s departure, or passing, from this world. He explained that there was an assumption at that time that the next generation of gurus would serve almost in the same capacity as Srila Prabhupada, the Founder-Acharya of ISKCON. This, the Swami elaborately explained to the participants, was a big mistake.
Atmanivedana Swami, the first speaker, analyzed some of the historical problems that were faced by devotees serving as gurus after Srila Prabhupada’s departure, or passing, from this world. He explained that there was an assumption at that time that the next generation of gurus would serve almost in the same capacity as Srila Prabhupada, the Founder-Acharya of ISKCON. This, the Swami elaborately explained to the participants, was a big mistake.
[PADA: Right, gurus in the parampara are full of defects such as "making huge mistakes." So the parampara of gurus from Krishna is made up of defective, conditioned and mistaken souls. Which is also known as -- the mad elephant offense -- of saying guru is an ordinary conditioned soul.
In addition to gurus being mistaken fools, they are also evidently prone to illicit sex with men, women and children, being debauchees, drunks, porno swamis etc. And that ladies and gents is the chain of gurus from God. Told ya!]
These new gurus were, of course, inexperienced and much younger, and vastly less qualified than Srila Prabhupada on all levels, from spiritual acumen and realization to worldly wisdom. Atmanivedana Swami emphasized that just like a postman, ISKCON gurus today must especially focus on their duty of delivering the message of our parampara and Founder-Acarya unchanged, and in a mood of a humble servant.
[PADA: Right, and the message of the postman is, the parampara is full of defective people and debauchees. Oooops, nope! They are messiahs, but inexperienced ones who make mistakes, if not fall down. What!]
[PADA: Yep, not only are gurus are conditioned souls who make mistakes, they may be exploiting and ruining people's lives!]
If someone serving as a spiritual master starts to think, “I am a guru,” or “I am infallible,” he will have serious problems. Therefore, humility and the understanding of always being a servant of one's own guru is essential for those serving as gurus. Maharaja ended by noting that ISKCON seems to have minimized the role of siksa gurus, or instructing spiritual masters. He felt that needs to be further studied and modified.
The next speaker was Bhaktivaibhava Swami. Maharaja chose to talk about the potential misuse of the position of guru, specifically related to the potential for mental or emotional abuse of one’s students, or disciples.
The next speaker was Bhaktivaibhava Swami. Maharaja chose to talk about the potential misuse of the position of guru, specifically related to the potential for mental or emotional abuse of one’s students, or disciples.
The authority figure of an ISKCON guru differs from the authority figure of, for example, a school teacher or professor, despite its many similarities. Undoubtedly, a professor has a strong influence on the student, but this is limited to the school or university environment and is not related to private life. The relation between a guru and disciple is of a deeper and more personal nature. It, therefore, carries much more weight since it may influence the entire life of the disciple, spiritual and material.
Maharaja explained further how there was a time in our movement when the concept given in sastra (scripture) of a guru as “heavy” was misapplied. “Heavy,” he explained, is meant to be heavy, or loaded, with knowledge. Some thought that a diksha guru must be heavy with his disciples, meaning authoritative, or even harsh, and demanding an inordinate amount of respect and surrender from his disciples. Not so, Bhaktivaibhava Maharaja warned his audience.
Being relatively young and inexperienced at that time, some gurus likely contributed to emotional distress among some of their disciples. This kind of negative experience is completely the opposite of what we learn from sastra; a guru is supposed to enlighten a disciple and inspire him or her in the practice of devotional service. The guru-disciple exchange is supposed to be a loving relationship that leads to a natural dedication to the guru’s teachings and the mission of Lord Caitanya.
Bhaktivaihava Swami further noted that a disciple's surrender as instructed in sastra has to be seen in the context of the historic Vedic culture. There, the disciple lived at the ashram of the guru from childhood for about twenty years. It was like a true father and son relationship. Nowadays, a guru-disciple relationship within ISKCON is quite different.
Maharaja explained further how there was a time in our movement when the concept given in sastra (scripture) of a guru as “heavy” was misapplied. “Heavy,” he explained, is meant to be heavy, or loaded, with knowledge. Some thought that a diksha guru must be heavy with his disciples, meaning authoritative, or even harsh, and demanding an inordinate amount of respect and surrender from his disciples. Not so, Bhaktivaibhava Maharaja warned his audience.
Being relatively young and inexperienced at that time, some gurus likely contributed to emotional distress among some of their disciples. This kind of negative experience is completely the opposite of what we learn from sastra; a guru is supposed to enlighten a disciple and inspire him or her in the practice of devotional service. The guru-disciple exchange is supposed to be a loving relationship that leads to a natural dedication to the guru’s teachings and the mission of Lord Caitanya.
Bhaktivaihava Swami further noted that a disciple's surrender as instructed in sastra has to be seen in the context of the historic Vedic culture. There, the disciple lived at the ashram of the guru from childhood for about twenty years. It was like a true father and son relationship. Nowadays, a guru-disciple relationship within ISKCON is quite different.
Most members join as young adults or later. It would be unreasonable for a guru to automatically expect the same type of surrender and dedication from the disciple as mentioned in the sastra, Maharaja concluded. ISKCON gurus must show much more tolerance and understanding concerning their disciples, as we saw by Srila Prabhupada's own example!
Ravindra Svarupa prabhu gave the third talk. He stressed that Srila Prabhupada distinguished between imitating and following. Srila Prabhupada often said: “Only one thing is to my credit - I have always remained the servant. I never tried to become the master!“ Srila Prabhupada demonstrated that commitment by taking his spiritual master's order—to preach in the English language—as his life and soul. Srila Prabhupada was successful because he followed that order despite the many difficulties he had to face.
Ravindra Svarupa prabhu gave the third talk. He stressed that Srila Prabhupada distinguished between imitating and following. Srila Prabhupada often said: “Only one thing is to my credit - I have always remained the servant. I never tried to become the master!“ Srila Prabhupada demonstrated that commitment by taking his spiritual master's order—to preach in the English language—as his life and soul. Srila Prabhupada was successful because he followed that order despite the many difficulties he had to face.
Ravindra Svarupa emphasized the need for ISKCON gurus to accept that mood of a humble follower. He then told how he himself became a guru in 1986 during the ‘guru reform movement’. At that time, the need for reform in ISKCON’s understanding of the proper role and functions of diksha gurus became obvious due to the difficulties the movement faced.
[PADA: But they still cannot remove a pedophile from the post of guru? What have they learned? And some followers of the pedophile guru told me their guru is taking their sins -- so he is still being advertised as another Jesus. How humble is it to claim to be equal to Jesus?]
Another challenge that ISKCON gurus sometimes meet comes while encouraging their disciples to follow the four regulative principles strictly. Many devotees struggle to follow these principles, especially those raised in an environment that's not supportive of such a strict lifestyle. Ravindra Svarupa gave additional, and interesting, insights on why Srila Prabhupada stressed these principles of no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling, and no intoxication.
Generally, most devotees understand these as moral principles, to be followed by a pious person or a good devotee. They are moral principles, Ravindra explained, but they are much more than that; they are “principles of knowledge.” Srila Prabhupada used the term “science of self-realization,” and this means one seeks to gain pratyaksa - a direct experience of the Supreme. Therefore, it is the responsibility of ISKCON gurus to not only follow the four regulative themselves, but to get others to follow strictly by understanding how important they are in self-realization.
After these three opening speeches, the assembly of ISKCON diksa gurus was invited to ask questions or give comments on what was presented. In this way, a lively discussion took place, followed by smaller group discussions in various breakout groups. Many other interesting topics were brought up, such as how to maintain the proper mood while receiving honor or worship from disciples (answer: always remaining humble, and as a transparent medium passing any reverence up to one’s own guru), how to develop a better system to give feedback to gurus, and the difference between a traditional guru during Vedic times and an ISKCON guru today who is part of a global movement.
[PADA: I am a pedophile who is humbly taking sins like Jesus? And that is their idea of being humble?]
Short reports from the breakout group facilitators and concluding words by the host and GSC Chairman, Prahladananda Swami, completed the conference after slightly more than two-and-a-half hours. From the enthusiastic participation and positive feedback received, it’s safe to conclude that the first ISKCON Guru Online Sanga was a success and will certainly be repeated.
[PADA: But they still cannot remove a pedophile from the post of guru? What have they learned? And some followers of the pedophile guru told me their guru is taking their sins -- so he is still being advertised as another Jesus. How humble is it to claim to be equal to Jesus?]
Another challenge that ISKCON gurus sometimes meet comes while encouraging their disciples to follow the four regulative principles strictly. Many devotees struggle to follow these principles, especially those raised in an environment that's not supportive of such a strict lifestyle. Ravindra Svarupa gave additional, and interesting, insights on why Srila Prabhupada stressed these principles of no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no gambling, and no intoxication.
Generally, most devotees understand these as moral principles, to be followed by a pious person or a good devotee. They are moral principles, Ravindra explained, but they are much more than that; they are “principles of knowledge.” Srila Prabhupada used the term “science of self-realization,” and this means one seeks to gain pratyaksa - a direct experience of the Supreme. Therefore, it is the responsibility of ISKCON gurus to not only follow the four regulative themselves, but to get others to follow strictly by understanding how important they are in self-realization.
After these three opening speeches, the assembly of ISKCON diksa gurus was invited to ask questions or give comments on what was presented. In this way, a lively discussion took place, followed by smaller group discussions in various breakout groups. Many other interesting topics were brought up, such as how to maintain the proper mood while receiving honor or worship from disciples (answer: always remaining humble, and as a transparent medium passing any reverence up to one’s own guru), how to develop a better system to give feedback to gurus, and the difference between a traditional guru during Vedic times and an ISKCON guru today who is part of a global movement.
[PADA: I am a pedophile who is humbly taking sins like Jesus? And that is their idea of being humble?]
Short reports from the breakout group facilitators and concluding words by the host and GSC Chairman, Prahladananda Swami, completed the conference after slightly more than two-and-a-half hours. From the enthusiastic participation and positive feedback received, it’s safe to conclude that the first ISKCON Guru Online Sanga was a success and will certainly be repeated.
The Guru Service Committee hopes that these kinds of conferences will continue to nurture inspiration among the ISKCON diksa gurus. After all, sadhu sanga, the association of saintly people, is not only important and the source of great happiness for neophyte devotees, but also for the advanced devotees and sadhus themselves!
[PADA: Yep, I am another Jesus, I can take your sins, that is real humble right there! Even the Lokanath people wrote to tell me their guru is taking their sins, ok he is another Jesus. Anyone who thinks they are another Jesus does not have even a speck of humility, or even, common sense. Meanwhile, the guru conference did not fix their Lokanath problem? ys pd]
[PADA: Yep, I am another Jesus, I can take your sins, that is real humble right there! Even the Lokanath people wrote to tell me their guru is taking their sins, ok he is another Jesus. Anyone who thinks they are another Jesus does not have even a speck of humility, or even, common sense. Meanwhile, the guru conference did not fix their Lokanath problem? ys pd]
[PADA: Following Robert's Rules of Order?
1) Make pedophiles and deviants into God's successors.
2) Orchestrate banning, beating, suing and killing anyone who objects.
3) Orchestrate molesting evidently thousands of children.
4) Get sued for $400,000,000 and bankrupt ISKCON.
5) Bury pedophiles in the dham.
6) Refuse to remove a pedophile guru even after all that.
Yep. This is very orderly. It is the orderly march to hell.
Yup! More people are joining our war.
Did I forget to mention?
Our non-pedophile guru program will win in the end?
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