ISKCON's Madan Gopal Discussing Child Welfare 06 25 24

PADA: It always seems like the GBC gurus are "eventually going to make a committee to address their lack of concern for victims." But nothing substantial ever gets done, since 1978. It is called "post dated check." And if we need to "advise and correct" the gurus to make more commitments to take charge of the citizen's welfare, how are they gurus? 

And Madan Gopal is now an initiating guru, taking karma from others, never mind most of the rest of them got sick, fell down, and died, from taking karma. He has no authority to make pretend he is another Jesus who can take other's karma, this is called fantasy delusions. He will suffer, this life or the next.  

ys pd

DD: I saw another example of this "it is their karma" messaging today .... I am not sure what those espousing such 'philosophical points' believe is helpful about saying such things. Is it meant to magically make the person suffering their karma feel OK about it "Oh, well, I only brought this on myself"?

Is it meant to make the voicing of concerns go away "You have no right to protest because you're just getting what you deserve"? Is it meant to make those inclined to extend compassion think twice "Don't be sentimental! Everything is as it should be"?

Do those watching abuse happen - and not doing anything about it - get to feel better about themselves - "I will now wisely explain what's really going on. This is my contribution to the cause .... philosophical explanations"?

How exactly is someone who suffered as a child meant to make use of such rhetoric? Does it magically whisk away all the trauma to understand this philosophical point?

I worry that the prevalence of such thought processes serves to undermine responsible parties taking decisive action. "Yes, it's sad that kids had to go through that but, then again, it is their karma so it's not like they're innocent." We have even heard of abusers using such rhetoric "I am merely the agent of your karma."

Imagine the same argument being used to rationalise cow slaughter. "Why feel sorry for those cows? They were probably all abbatoir workers in their last lives. Just getting what's due."

"Those civilians in Nagasaki and Hiroshima had it coming."

"Those killed in Auschwitz....."

Devotees are meant to be full of compassion - to feel the sufferings of others as their own. To find it intolerable that others are suffering. Especially when this happens to innocent class that is meant to be protected. And Vaisnava children are meant to be protected by us. They are our collective responsibility. 

If we failed to keep them safe, we should be preaching to ourselves about our taking our responsibilities more seriously - not preaching to them on how they had it coming.

Philosophising about these things - with zero care - is merely bypassing. Maybe it helps the virtue signaller feel better about themselves - "I truly understand why all these things are happening and I don't get in a tizzy about it."

But where victims of traumatic events need compassion and support - explaining philosophical points to them not only doesn't cut it but, with this kind of rhetoric, actually rubs salt in the wounds. "You did this to yourself, kid."

TT: So far, I have never actually heard those words come out of anyone’s mouth before. What mentality is behind a statement like that? Especially when spoken to a victim or victims family. It’s as if the speakers head is not attached to their 

PD: Right. Because if the leaders are guilty of criminal negligence of these children; corrupting the morals of minors -- for example -- by making them worship known predators and deviants; covering up sometimes SEVERE mistreatment of minors; aiding and abetting an infrastructure of webs and nests of sometimes SEVERE child mistreatment; hiding and moving perps and their enablers; using funds meant to care for children to buy expensive personal items for themselves -- including opulent private dwellings, vehicles, computer etc. -- while a number of children were not being fed properly -- oppressing whistle blowers -- and so on, they would be admitting to criminal behaviors. 

When I was in LA having them sued, all of them were loudly gossiping with their lawyers on the sidewalk, but as soon as I came around the corner on my bike, it was suddenly -- total silence. Of course, there was also a lot of glares. Ummm, my feeling is -- and the children's lawyers feeling at the time was -- the GBC's lawyers told them to zip it, clam up, and not admit to anything, because these things are factually -- crimes. 

So yeah, "you caused your own victimization -- not us" is the best excuse they could cook up after all this time, takes them clean off the hook. And so far, it has worked out pretty good for them. That may explain why they never come here to the Bay Area to talk to the many victims living around here, because, anything they say -- can and will be used against them, and they know it. Not new. The M A F I A omerta / code of silence is a well known tactic ... ys pd

S Dasi: I first encountered this outrageous idea in the 70s. Jagadish wrote about it — it’s their karma — in one of the “education” newsletters. I was shocked … still am.

DD: - and that scoundrel - more than any other - needed to be exercising full responsibility not attempting to obviate it like this. “What could I do? It was destined and deserved.” It’s not dissimilar to the victim blaming we saw from Guru Prasad Swami - “Well Dhanurdhara may have hit them, but do you have any idea how unruly and low class these kids were?”

TP: Then I can punch you in your face and say it was your karma to get punched!

VH: It goes the other way around too though, in the sense that when the perpetrators are being accused it's just them getting their karma, but that they don't seem to grasp. If we are talking in terms of karma, the perpetrators should be ready to face theirs too, i.e. walk the talk. They don't. Cowards!!

AM: I wonder what kind of karma Vaikuntha children are born with... I truly believe we should stop talking about their karma, they are born vaishnavas. It is rather a test in life how we protect them.

FR: That is the lowest way to twist the philosophy. A crooked and demonic way to settle things and convince your mind it was ok.

AV: Lets give those rascals a big kick and then say... "sorry, it was your karma, do nothing".

FR: These are spiritual souls finding the path to return home by the grace and blessing of Srila Prabhupada. In young bodies ready to learn and practice the secret way to go back home back to godhead and find a demon full of hate and envy and tries to destroy their blessing. Srila Prabhupada emphasized that we should protect them by all sides. Let them grow and develop love of Krishna and return safely. These crooks and demons are doomed. Devotees should make them disappear.