Bhakti Vikasa Swami: Pedophiles Welcome! : Prabhupadanugas? UNWELCOME! 09 02 26

https://www.krishnaconsciousnesssociety.com/?

angel108b@yahoo.com

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Yeah, heard that hundreds of times:

ISKCON children victims are "getting their karma."

BHAKTI VIKSA SWAMI

PEDOPHILES WELCOME : PRABHUPADANUAGAS UNWELCOME

PADA: Rather odd conversation here with Bhakti Vikas swami. He seems to be saying, we should allow pedophiles back into ISKCON to "do important service" even if they have criminally abused children, and / or were caught or known. OK that means the GBC ISKCON leaders are not going to legally charge these pedo guys with these crimes. 

Which answers the BIG question we get all the time "why weren't the pedophiles put in jail by the ISKCON leaders"? Right, we need to be merciful to the pedophiles and give them mercy, forgiveness, and allowance to continue hanging around the society. And not have them legally charged criminally with crimes. 

Who is legally sued then? I forgot, it is the people who worship Srila Prabhupada, like the Bangalore devotees. The GBC spends $20,00,000 trying to put the directors of Akshaya Patra (a free food program in India) in jail. So if you are a pedophile, we should not charge you legally with crimes, we should allow you back to do important service -- whatever that means. 

But if you decide to worship Srila Prabhupada as your guru, you will be banned, beaten, sued, and maybe -- killed. Then people wonder why there has been a pedophile out cropping in ISKCON? BVKS then says he does not care who does not like what he says, he might be rejected. He already has been rejected, the temples are ghost towns. And that is why we need to be forgiving to the pedophiles, they are needed to do important service, because everyone else already abandoned ship. 

ys pd angel108b!yahoo.com   

BHAKTI VIKAS SWAMI

(0:00) The title of this talk will be Perspectives on Child Abuse, starting now. (0:11) I'm now going to speak on a very unpleasant subject. (0:18) What I'm going to say will definitely not be accepted or acceptable to some.

(0:28) I might lose some friends and disciples who strongly disagree with me. (0:36) I have been asked to clarify why I support child abuses. (0:42) This is not the first time that I've been called upon to do this, (0:47) but I've not done so because my experience in trying to address such questions is that (0:56) those who disagree, to put it mildly, tend to take things out of context and presume (1:07) that any perspective other than their own means that I am a supporter of the evil of child abuse.

PADA: BVKS supports Jayapataka swami, who has made what some victims call "Auschwitz for kids." There are numerous victims according to various testimony including that a number of other schools such as Vrndavana and other GBC locations also harbored child abusers and for many years. BVKS may not be abusing children himself, but the system he promotes and supports does abuse children.    

(1:20) The implication is that I support child abuse, I support child abusers, therefore I support (1:30) child abuse. I didn't take this up previously. I didn't respond to this because of the (1:43) nastiness of those who just presume that I must be evil because I don't take the same position (2:00) that they do.

PADA: Why is it nasty to address that BVKS's GBC system has had rampant child abuse and harbors notorious child abusers -- and BVKS is a leader in that system? And BVKS has been a defender / apologist / hand maiden / enabler of that system, and his sannyasa guru Jayapataka is the head of that system in Mayapur where we have had Dhanurdar, Bhakti Vidya Purna, Bhavananda, Satadhanya, Nitai Chand and others of that ilk roaming about over there?  

So I have to say, I do not support child abusers. (2:09) And you say, yes you do, but I want to draw a distinction between child abusers (2:16) and ex-child abusers. It seems to be presumed that anyone who has abused children must be (2:27) innately evil and cannot possibly be a devotee of any kind.

PADA: That is not really the issue at hand. The issue is that while all the abuse has been going on there was a severe effort to curb whistle blowers by BVKS's GBC society as a whole. And in fact GBC enforcers were sent to California to HUNT US DOWN LIKE DOGS and take out me and Sulochana, so violence -- including murders of Vaishnavas -- has been being used by BVKS's guru process to suppress complaints about child abuse. 

And when ex-child abusers are loitering about in ISKCON, they seem to get a free pass, but our Prabhupadanugas are banned, beaten, sued and maybe killed. Did I forget to mention that a child committed suicide after he saw how Dhanurdar was given a glorious welcome at Los Angeles temple? You guys are harming the victims over and over again. BVKS may think it is a good idea to allow in former perps, but it looks like the victims are not being consulted or taken into account. 

Surely a devotee cannot do such (2:35) horrible things. However, that's not what Krishna states in Bhagavad Gita. Although (2:45) citing the Apichet Suddharachara verse in this context invokes horror in some, (2:54) as if it doesn't apply.

There are some situations where some have decided that Krishna's words in (3:02) this regard, they're not applicable. They say that anyone who is chanting Hare Krishna but (3:14) who's done child abuse cannot be sincere in any way whatsoever. They're wolves in sheep's clothing.

(3:25) A little aside here, we live in a bad world. The whole society around us is abusive of children. (3:36) If we see how many children grow up taking drugs from a young age, having sex at a young age, (3:48) are suicidal and criminal, there are rampant kinds of child abuse which are just considered normal (4:03) in so-called civilized society.

No one makes a fuss. Contraception, abortion, (4:14) divorce, especially in the presence of young children, fighting between parents in the (4:23) presence of young children. It may be that those who are so much against, (4:34) well, we should be against child abuse, but those who are so much vocal about it don't see that (4:42) there are much broader parameters of child abuse.

PADA: What does any of that have to do with the GBC's mass child abuse of Krishna kids? The regular society is bad, our society is bad -- what is the problem? The problem is that "someone else is a crook" does not allow you to also be one, or support others who are. The ISKCON society has to be responsible for what happens in its society, and hold the perps and their enablers accountable. 

So yeah, be vocal about it, try to stop it, but (4:57) could try to keep a somewhat balanced perspective on it also. Getting back to (5:05) child abuse in ISKCON, there's a strange psychology, dichotomy, the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (5:14) syndrome. If you don't know what that is, look it up.

Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. The one person who was (5:24) basically good but had a very bad side to him and eventually became very bad. (5:36) So it may be that the devotee has some demoniac tendencies, they take to Krishna consciousness (5:45) seriously, and after doing so they succumb to some really very, very bad (5:54) anarthas.

Yet they're still trying to be devotees. There but for the grace of God go I. (6:05) That's the saying. I can't say I'm categorically better than a child abuser.

PADA: Right, we GBC are the enablers of the industrial scale child abuse process, so I cannot say I'm better than a child abuser. Correct. The enablers of the abuse process are co-equal parts of the whole process, neither is much better than the other. "I did not hit you, my stick did."

How many sins have I (6:17) done, maybe not in this life, cow killing, murder, rape, contraception, abortion, genocide. (6:26) I'm in this material world because I'm sinful. Should have Prabhupada kindly (6:32) pick me up or try to pick me up.

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur sings, (6:45) What kind of horrible things have I not done thousands and thousands of times. (6:57) The response to child abuse that seems to be mainstream in devotee society at present (7:06) is that offenders should be shamed as far as possible and driven out of Vaishnav society (7:14) and no one should have any sympathy for them whatsoever. 

PADA: Yes, there is a problem when the sincere Prabhupadanugas are driven out, and the molesters and their enablers get to stay. That is what has happens in ISKCON, most of the sincere householders are driven out and the false renunciates and their entourage of predators remain.   

Any sign, any trace of any sympathy (7:26) for a devotee who has succumbed to some terrible tendency proves that the person who has sympathy (7:35) is as bad, as evil as the wrongdoer.

What would Srila Prabhupada say? It seems to me unlikely (7:49) that he would totally reject and abandon a misbehaved devotee. (7:57) After who knows how many births we take to Krishna consciousness, (8:05) Srila Prabhupada, he did reject some disciples, (8:14) but not for misbehavior, even bad misbehavior, and especially there's at least one case we know of, (8:22) of a devotee who had performed very valuable service, had the potential to do much more. (8:30) It came to light that alongside doing his valuable service, (8:36) he was having multiple fall downs.

He was a Sanyasi GBC member. I'll say the name (8:43) because it is mentioned anyway in Hari Shari Prabhu's Transcendental Diary. The name is Madhu (8:51) Dwisha.

He was a GBC member and a Sanyasi. Srila Prabhupada liked him very much. He had done (8:57) tremendous service in picking up the Australian ISKCON.
So anyway, I'm going to read from (9:08) Hari Shari Prabhu's Transcendental Diary. Pusha Krishna Maharaj spent a long time on the phone (9:16) in the evening informing all the temples in Madhu Dwisha's zone on the east coast that he, (9:24) Madhu Dwisha, has fallen and is no longer the GBC. 

However, when he came to report (9:34) his actions to Srila Prabhupada, Prabhupada was angry. Prabhupada was made aware of the (9:40) initial suspicions in Australia, but his idea had been to keep the affair quiet until he reached New (9:48) York because Srila Prabhupada had reassigned Madhu Dwisha, taken him out of the Australia zone. (9:57) He'd heard about his multiple fall downs and reassigned him to a GBC zone in New York. He (10:04) didn't remove him from GBC service.

So Prabhupada wanted to keep the affair quiet until he reached (10:10) New York where he could see Madhu Dwisha personally and attempt to clear everything up (10:17) without a scandal. He wanted to save him and he was upset that news of Madhu Dwisha's fall down (10:23) was now widespread. He rebuked Pusha Krishna.

Now you have made it impossible for him to return. (10:33) Srila Prabhupada wanted Madhu Dwisha to return. Later on in the Transcendental Diary, we find (10:49) Harisharai Prabhu recalling that Pusha Krishna Swami himself (10:55) fell down. Harisharai Prabhu writes, Pusha Krishna's fall was not unexpected. (11:05) Srila Prabhupada pinpointed the cause. He said it was because he had made Madhu Dwisha's difficulties (11:11) a public issue.

Prabhupada had wanted to keep it quiet and deal with Madhu Dwisha on his own (11:19) for despite his entanglement in illicit activity, Madhu Dwisha was still doing service. (11:26) Prabhupada said that he had wanted to rectify him and keep him in devotional service. (11:32) But without consultation, Pusha Krishna had advertised the situation and this was counter (11:38) to his desire, to Srila Prabhupada's desire.

So Srila Prabhupada was looking to rectify him. (11:50) Nowadays with the internet, it's impossible to hide anything. Is that good or is it bad? Well, (11:58) whether it's good or whether it's bad, it's just a fact of life in the present age.
(12:05) But we can see that Srila Prabhupada's, what Srila Prabhupada's approaches. Now (12:15) falling down with women, it's serious misbehavior for anyone, for a sannyasi especially. (12:27) 

PADA: What does Madhuvisa having affairs with grown up females have to do with the molesting of small kids? Madhuvisa for the record was against my efforts to curb the child abuse and he said I was "making offenses."

Child abuse is in a different category, we can say, but it's falling down with a woman, (12:37) you can say, well, that's abuse of the woman or anyway, it's child abuse is particularly (12:46) horrible. One point is that falling down with women is so common (12:55) within ISKCON and illicit sex is so much accepted in mainstream society (13:03) that we tend to treat it quite lightly. 

PADA: Child abuse is not merely illicit sex among consenting adults, it is a crime against children.

Certainly those who, men who fall down with women, (13:10) they don't get roasted in the same way that child abusers do. For a brahmin to fall down, (13:20) for someone who's supposed to be a brahmin who engages in illicit sex, meat-eating, (13:27) taking of intoxication, gambling, it's in traditional Vedic culture, these are all considered (13:37) very sinful.

Nowadays, we don't consider them so, but mainstream society still considers child (13:47) abuse to be very, very bad. That might change, you never know. I'm not saying it's good if it (13:56) changes, but it's better if it changes that mainstream society recognizes that any form of (14:03) illicit sex is sinful, is bad, and there are gradations also.

Child abuse is definitely very, (14:13) very bad, but still we can consider Srila Prabhupada's outlook that he doesn't want to (14:22) completely reject a devotee who wants to be a devotee, (14:31) who's done very valuable service, he wants somehow to accommodate them. (14:36) This can become a very tricky question. By accommodating fallen sannyasis, (14:44) do we not undermine the whole institution of sannyas and cheapen it? By giving some room for (14:52) ex-child abusers to continue in Krishna consciousness, do we not lessen the crime (15:00) of child abuse and normalize it? 

It's a dilemma, at least it's not for everyone a dilemma, for many (15:09) it's no dilemma, just drive them out, throw them out. But I'm just wondering if that is the (15:17) fully correct attitude and by being so rejecting of devotees who are trying to be devotees, (15:30) we may commit offenses to them also. This will be hated by those who hate what I'm saying, but (15:42) there are cases we see in the pastimes of Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, (15:52) of them saying that people had become ghosts for their offenses in criticizing devotees.

(16:04) And again they will say, well you can't be a devotee if you do such horrible things, but again (16:11) that's not the verdict of Bhagavad Gita.

PADA: OK so the Bhagavad Gita says we need to ban, beat, sue and kill anyone who worships Srila Prabhupada, but we should be merciful to child abusers. WTF? 

So yeah, it is a dilemma on the one hand, we want to keep (16:17) out, drive out child abuse altogether from Vaishnav society. I wonder if it's even possible (16:26) when it's so rampant in Kami society, despite all endeavors to stop it, curb it, it goes on rampantly. (16:39) It doesn't mean that we shouldn't make endeavors to keep it out, (16:46) but it's probably going to be with us.
The whole society is very bad. (16:53) Iskcon is not an island. We're in the middle of this horrible Kali Yuga.

PADA: But the karmi police, media and courts had to help me combat the mass child abuse in the Krishna religion. To say that the karmis are doing the same thing as ISKCON is not correct, they will vehemently attack child abusers programs. 

(16:59) So we want to drive out child abuse altogether. So it might seem that by (17:04) completely rejecting in all respects anyone who has any record of child abuse, (17:14) then we can drive it out completely, finished. But is it really proper to drive out devotees (17:28) who have made and who have the potential to continue making valuable contributions? (17:36) There are devotees who have done child abuse and have come out of that and have gone on for decades (17:50) inspiring devotees, helping them.

Are they really all wolves in sheep's clothing? (18:02) Or are they trying to be Krishna conscious? As we're all trying, we're all struggling. (18:10) It could be said, well, devotees, they can continue practicing Krishna consciousness, (18:16) but not in Iskcon. They can do it at home or they can go off to the Gauri Amart or Shree (18:24) Sampra or whatever, whoever will accept them.

PADA: No, all of us are not struggling with being potential child abusers, we instinctively want to protect children.

But then again, we have devotees who did things wrong (18:31) a long time ago but have not engaged in child abuse literally for decades. Maybe some allowance (18:38) could be made for them considering that association with devotees is essential in Krishna consciousness. (18:45) krishna bhakti janma mool hoye sadhu sanga krishna prema janme tehon punah (18:52) mokya anga.

The very root of krishna bhakti, the root of its arising is association with devotees. (19:04) And even when one comes to the level where krishna prema is awakening in one's heart, still (19:14) it is a major limb of devotional service. That is what Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says.

PADA: But by association with child abusers, and worshiping child abusers like Lokanath etc. we are associating with child abuse and not pure bhakti. 

So, (19:23) could ex-child abusers who are prepared to (19:34) at least clean toilets in Iskcon temples or (19:39) if they go into any Iskcon temple, everyone will know, yes, they did this, they did that. (19:45) If they regularly go to some temple, give them some service, give them some association, allow (19:52) them to join in kirtan. We also have to consider the recognized phenomenon in secular society (20:03) of people making accusations of rape and child abuse, (20:09) even against their parents, which later turn out to be false.

(20:17) It's a syndrome. It's not just one or two cases. There are (20:22) enough cases that it's a very worrying syndrome.

In the meantime, (20:29) after the accused parties have been imprisoned, their reputations destroyed, their lives destroyed, (20:41) and we see, at least in some cases of child abuse that have been adjudicated (20:51) within Iskcon, that the accused parties will admit that they've done some wrong, but they (20:57) state that there are exaggerations and misrepresentations also. 

But typically, (21:04) those who are accused are so much scorned that they're not considered worthy even of a proper (21:12) hearing. In other words, whatever the accusations are, are taken as a fact, and (21:22) the persons who are accused shouldn't even be listened to.

There can't be anything that they (21:32) could possibly say to re-present or to give a different perspective. Often, trial is by public (21:44) contempt on the internet. So, child abuse is terrible, horrible, dangerous, but it's also (21:56) dangerous that within Iskcon there are no proper judicial procedures followed, not only in cases (22:02) of child abuse.

What are called judicial procedures in cases of child abuse often seem to be driven (22:14) by vindictiveness, with the guilty verdict already settled before inquiry, and then deliberately dig (22:23) up all kinds of dirt, wrong things that the person may have done, or they're accused of doing, (22:34) which have got nothing to do with child abuse. The investigators try to get people to say bad (22:44) things. They're looking for material to incriminate, sometimes not involving the accused (22:51) whatsoever.

And not to speak of the accused, even someone who has anything good to say about them (22:59) is considered a pervert. If it is attempted to explain that there are many devotees who (23:05) have taken guidance from and been benefited by and who have no complaint against the accused, (23:14) or if it is attempted to state that some of the accusations are possibly not completely accurate (23:24) or exaggerated, one is immediately labeled a facilitator of child abuse. (23:33) So, it's natural that devotees become, or anyone, becomes livid and wants to (23:42) scream and maybe perform physical violence against child abusers.

But if we are to operate (23:51) as a functional society, there have to be proper judicial procedures. Otherwise, it's very dangerous. (24:05) And anyone can say anything and it's just taken as being true.

PADA: The judicial system of ISKCON is to ban, beat, sue and kill whistle blowers on child abuse. 

Anyway, (24:14) I don't want to discuss this further. I'm giving this little talk. It's going out in public.

It (24:20) will be cut into pieces, no doubt. But I don't want to discuss this further with those who are (24:32) so livid against any kind of child abuse that they seem to have lost their discrimination (24:48) and just presume that everyone must be very bad if they have anything to do with (24:59) or any sympathy for anyone who ever performed child abuse. That's my experience.

It's a certain (25:07) kind of persons it's impossible to discuss with in a reasonable manner. So, in such an atmosphere, (25:16) I won't attempt to discuss further. You can send me all kinds of nasty emails. That's it. (25:27) I may lose friends or disciples, but that is my position." 

BHAKTI VIKAS SWAMI

PADA: Yeah we won't allow this to be discussed further, suck it up, or we will ban, beat, sue and kill you. ys pd

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