Text PAMHO:31873566 (82 lines) From: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) Date: 15-Jan-20 13:18 -0600 Bcc: ICC (Indian Continental Committee) [9231]
Subject:
SABHA to recommend Gay Culture be integrated into ISKCON
SABHA to recommend Gay Culture be integrated into ISKCON
- article ------------------------------------------------------------
Home Base: ISKCON Baroda Camp: Frisco (Dallas), Texas, USA
Dear Maharajas and Prabhus, Namonamaha. Jaya Srila Prabhupada! Just now I received a very disconcerting letter from Pancharatna Prabhu, the TP of ISKCON Jaipur, and the Chairman of the IIAC (ISKCON India Advisory Committee, constituted by the ISKCON India Governing Bureau). The letter has been uploaded to the internet, here:
Here is what appears there: ##########
BEGIN QUOTED ARTICLE ##########
SABHA to recommend Gay Culture be integrated into ISKCON BY:
PANCARATNA DAS (JAIPUR, INDIA) ON: JANUARY 15, 2020 IN:
HOMOSEXUALITY, ISKCON
Now the latest topic of the SABHA [Spiritual Advisors Bhagavata Assembly] is integrating LGBT. Lesbians homosexuals bisexuals and transgender people into ISKCON. The SABHA are discussing and will work on a proposal to the GBC at a later stage.
Of course not many will maintain celibacy and will need to get married, so a same sex marriage proposal will soon follow. So far men, women, gurus, and Sannyasa have written, all approving the idea and encouraging. Only I have written in the negative. Seems there are some that are intent on splitting ISKCON into further denominations.
Maybe ISKCON West and ISKCON East. It’s going that way. How can you get a win win without compromising everything. I feel we need to make a strong stand here with one voice.
Your servant, Pancaratna Dasa President,
ISKCON Jaipur
ISKCON India representative on SABHA
########## END QUOTED ARTICLE ##########
This, and the resolution already passed by the GBC authorizing female diksha gurus in ISKCON, are both blatant violations of the vedic shastras concept of the role of women in society and homosexuality, and what Srila Prabhupada instructed on the role of women in society, his instruction that women cannot be diksha gurus, and his time and again condemnation of homosexuality.
Our leadership is emulating the role of the reform movements in Protestant Christianity, and Reform Judaism - that are simply put, "the religions of the meat eaters" (Srila Prabhupada told me these words at Vrindavan on a morning walk during September 1975).
It is my hope that you [from a letter sent separately to senior sannyasis] will speak out against this before the upcoming GBC AGM next month. My most humble advice is that you write personally to each and every GBC member (some of you are GBC members) stating your opposition to these actions.
Hope this meets you well. dasanudas,
Basu Ghosh Das Facebook:
Basu Ghosh Das Skype:
Basu Ghosh Das WhatsApp: +91-94260-54308
P.S. Seems that the GBC created the "Sabha" as a "tool" to steer ISKCON clearly into the "liberal, feminist, egalitarian", camp. And we are paying for the Sabha - Rs. 7,80,000/- (from the GBC annual budget) through our GBC fees...
--------------------------------------
Join the discussion…
Amara Das Wilhelm: Just follow Srila Prabhupada's own example and everything will be fine. Srila Prabhupada was very kind and accepting of his gay, lesbian and transgender disciples. He was never nasty toward them and he never kicked them away. He encouraged everyone to follow the principles but if they were unable then they could live outside the temple, render service and remain a part of the congregation. I hope the GBC reaches a wise and compassionate decision in this regard. ISKCON should never tolerate or allow any minority group to be mistreated, abused or rejected by its members and centers.
Raviraj Subhash Gattani • 8 hours ago •
Why should one need to be included. Iskcon is already open to all. By including what it means is right to positions. But positions are by qualifications, and following 4 regs is one important qualification for most positions. So a class of people who are defined by their way of seeing sex are by default unacceptable for positions in Iskcon.
Sex life is only meant for procreation, IDEALLY, and one needs to at least accept this idea to have a position in Iskcon. As it is, even in India we are finding it difficult to make sure that those who are not following purity don't get in positions, and this is with conventional married people who believe in believing in sastra. How are u going to monitor this new inclusion, a class which is defined to encourage sex for needs other than procreating.
Although the author opposes this inclusion, I disagree with the statement:
'Of course not many will maintain celibacy and will need to get married, so same sex marriage proposal will soon follow' because marriage is not for sex, but for procreating. Others can marry, but then they are not following 4 regs.
Marriage or no marriage, celibacy is must, unless for procreation. This is all ideal. Of course not many can be ideal, but then why they want positions? Iskcon programs - morning program, festivals, public feasts, even chanting - is open to all. If someone is having social opposition, they have to address the problem without watering down the philosophy.
Iskcon philosophy cannot be changed for individual issues. Everyone faces social issues or some kind of opposition; you cannot play with spiritual principles for social needs. Social correctness will give nothing. Spiritual correctness will bring all kinds of welfare - social, emotional, economical.
Basically the authorities need to be detached, that's all. Everything is clear. What's lacking is detachment and faith in the philosophy's teachings and instructions. Without proper authority nothing can be achieved. HDG wanted brahmanas to be the authority for society ...
Protest Kumar Raviraj Subhash Gattani • an hour ago
Sir, if you are celibate or a Baal brahmachari, not that everyone be a naistika brahmachari like you. Mr pure, this class is not defined by their sexual orientation. Yes according to the shastras sex life is only for procreation, we do respect that but plz check urself once whether you have followed it in ur life or not Mr pure -- then talk. Preaching is very easy but practising is very difficult. Purity is must we do agree but I am asking you have you used ur sexual power " only " for begetting children then you plz preaching here or else we too Know what happens in your life too.......we respect Prabhupad and his teachings .
Raviraj Subhash Gattani • 9 hours ago
The links given by G Kesava Das in his comments are all either Wikipedia articles or a book by a non-devotee. No bonafide reference in any of the links.
Sri Niketan • 9 hours ago
We need to support Pancaratna Prabhu on this. We need to now speak in a unified voice as he said. Best for ISKCON India to throw out the GBC and let the Bureau run India.
Its simple. Srila Prabhupada started ISKCON and made it to be run according to his books and teachings. His books and teachings condemn Homosex. Of course homosexuals are welcome to join in but not practice any of their 'activities'. If some ISKCON members want to integrate Gayism in ISKCON then that is illegal and they will have no way to manipulate Guru, sadhu and sastra or Srila Prabhupada's teachings to fit it in. So they either leave ISKCON or agree to be called deviants. If they agree to be called deviants then they should be thrown out of ISKCON as why should deviants run ISKCON?
Protest Kumar Sri Niketan • an hour ago
His books and teachings condemn sex life other than procreation .,......... They won't support the homosexual activity. As an uttama adhikari he loved everyone ....,....... If you have used ur sexual power only for begetting children then you plz talk because you are perfect ..........if not don't lecture here , because his teachings are against sex other than procreation where in you also fall under this category .
G Keshava Das • a day ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...
While I am not a proponent of any form of homosexuality I would suggest that devotees educate themselves about the role that such minor sinful behaviour played in Indian society since time immemorial. Both hetero and homo sexuals sins are described in the sastras. But whereas in Mleccha sastras, like the Bible, homosexual sins are considered as cardinal or major sins, in the Vedic sastras they are considered as minor sins. The major sexual sins described in Vedic sastras are heterosexual because of the possibility of creation of varna sankara or unwanted progeny (see Gita 1.42).
Please read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...
The Arthashastra, an ancient Indian treatise on statecraft, mentions a wide variety of sexual practices which, whether performed with a man or a woman, were sought to be punished with the lowest grade of punishment / fine. While homosexual intercourse was not sanctioned, it was treated as a very minor offence, and several kinds of heterosexual intercourse were punished more severely.
Sex between non-virgin women incurred a small fine, while homosexual intercourse between men could be made up for merely with a bath with one's clothes on, and a penance of "eating the five products of the cow and keeping a one-night fast" – the penance being a replacement of the traditional concept of homosexual intercourse resulting in a loss of caste.
For Further information about sexual life in Ancient India Vols 1 & 2 people can
read: https://archive.org/details...
and: Vol 2: https://archive.org/details...
Of course some attitudes changed with the coming of the Mughal and British conquests and rule and even recently we see the Supreme Court of India ruling to legalize homosexuality:
On 24 August 2017, India's Supreme Court gave the country's LGBT community the freedom to safely express their sexual orientation. Therefore, an individual's sexual orientation is protected under the country's Right to Privacy law. However, the Supreme Court did not directly overturn any laws criminalizing same-sex relationships.
On 6 September 2018, consensual gay sex was legalised by India's Supreme Court.
Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC), dating back to 1861, makes sexual activities "against the order of nature" punishable by law and carries a life sentence.The law replaced the variety of punishments for Zina (unlawful intercourse) mandated in the Mughal empire's Fatawa-e-Alamgiri, these ranged from 50 lashes for a slave, 100 for a free infidel, to death by stoning for a Muslim. Similarly the Goa Inquisition once prosecuted the capital crime of sodomy in Portuguese India, but not lesbian acts.
There have also always been homosexuals in ISKCON, and during the time of Srila Prabhupada this was dealt with in a similar way as under the Clinton Administration's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy for gays in the US military.
So just like in India, ISKCON today finds itself having to speak more openly about this subject. Espcially now that it is legal in many countries including India.
Hari Bhakti Vilasa 1.200 states that the Guru has to examine the potential disciple and understand their sexuality apart from other qualifications when deciding what mantra to initiate them into.
Raviraj Subhash Gattani G Keshava Das • 9 hours ago
The links given by G Kesava Das in his comments are all either Wikipedia articles or a book by non-devotee. No bonafide reference in any of the links.
Ludovico Sforza Raviraj Subhash Gattani • 6 hours ago
As may have noticed by now that GK is a Kali chela, posing as a devotee who wants to sew chaos in Vaisnavism. Everything he writes has to be double and tripled checked as he is a kutarki.
Protest Kumar Ludovico Sforza • an hour ago
How can you say he's kalicela ..... don't judge ..... after all it's a virtual platform how can judge people in a discussion ...,.......no one can create chaos in vaishnavisam like you with ur judgmental nature ............ One should also check ur statements thousand times because subtle hate is there in ur comments...,..you can't generalise things. Purity is must to get out of this material world.............no matter one is homo , hetero or bi
[PADA: Basu Ghosh is actually arguing with his own shadow here. He all along said that the leaders of ISKCON are diksha GURUS, aka Krishna's successors. Now he is saying Krishna's successors are speaking bogus things. How is it that Krishna's successors are bogus and Basu Ghosh is bona fide?
And this is all part of the whole giant dog and pony circus act of folks like: Gaura Govinda maharaja, Rocana, Bhakti Vikas swami, Torben, Kailash, Hanuman Croatia, Tripurari swami, Narayan Maharaja, the GBC, the SAC, the SABHA, the Bureau, and maybe hundreds of other folks, who are all advertising that they are now the senior advisors to the ISKCON GBC guru successors to GOD ALMIGHTY.
Thus! They are all offering admonition, chastisement, correction, and general fix-it repair advice to the (alleged) messiah successors to God. Why would God's successors need this lot to give them advice and correction? So this proves that they all think God's successors are faulty, defective, conditioned beings who need to be: voted in, voted out, corrected, censured, advised, chastised, monitored for deviations, suspended, removed, excommunicated, and maybe have the cops called to stop them from criminal behaviors. That is how we treat God's successor gurus?
Wait a minute, how did all these little pipsqueaks self-advertised advisors telescope themselves to become the higher authority than GOD's guru successors? Or are we right to say, these gurus are bogus, and not actually God's successors, they are being falsely advertised as such? So now we have the problem of these false messiahs voting in more and more deviations, and nothing can be done because, no one is supposed to question the guru.
Ooops, unless they are not really gurus? Why aren't they just saying hey, these guys are doing all these bogus things because PADA is right, they are not gurus, and we need to re-establish Srila Prabhupada as the guru. Anyway, this is all a sign the cult melt down is getting hotter and hotter as the melting down gets worse and worse. ys pd]
It is my hope that you [from a letter sent separately to senior sannyasis] will speak out against this before the upcoming GBC AGM next month. My most humble advice is that you write personally to each and every GBC member (some of you are GBC members) stating your opposition to these actions.
Hope this meets you well. dasanudas,
Basu Ghosh Das Facebook:
Basu Ghosh Das Skype:
Basu Ghosh Das WhatsApp: +91-94260-54308
P.S. Seems that the GBC created the "Sabha" as a "tool" to steer ISKCON clearly into the "liberal, feminist, egalitarian", camp. And we are paying for the Sabha - Rs. 7,80,000/- (from the GBC annual budget) through our GBC fees...
--------------------------------------
Join the discussion…
Amara Das Wilhelm: Just follow Srila Prabhupada's own example and everything will be fine. Srila Prabhupada was very kind and accepting of his gay, lesbian and transgender disciples. He was never nasty toward them and he never kicked them away. He encouraged everyone to follow the principles but if they were unable then they could live outside the temple, render service and remain a part of the congregation. I hope the GBC reaches a wise and compassionate decision in this regard. ISKCON should never tolerate or allow any minority group to be mistreated, abused or rejected by its members and centers.
Raviraj Subhash Gattani • 8 hours ago •
Why should one need to be included. Iskcon is already open to all. By including what it means is right to positions. But positions are by qualifications, and following 4 regs is one important qualification for most positions. So a class of people who are defined by their way of seeing sex are by default unacceptable for positions in Iskcon.
Sex life is only meant for procreation, IDEALLY, and one needs to at least accept this idea to have a position in Iskcon. As it is, even in India we are finding it difficult to make sure that those who are not following purity don't get in positions, and this is with conventional married people who believe in believing in sastra. How are u going to monitor this new inclusion, a class which is defined to encourage sex for needs other than procreating.
Although the author opposes this inclusion, I disagree with the statement:
'Of course not many will maintain celibacy and will need to get married, so same sex marriage proposal will soon follow' because marriage is not for sex, but for procreating. Others can marry, but then they are not following 4 regs.
Marriage or no marriage, celibacy is must, unless for procreation. This is all ideal. Of course not many can be ideal, but then why they want positions? Iskcon programs - morning program, festivals, public feasts, even chanting - is open to all. If someone is having social opposition, they have to address the problem without watering down the philosophy.
Iskcon philosophy cannot be changed for individual issues. Everyone faces social issues or some kind of opposition; you cannot play with spiritual principles for social needs. Social correctness will give nothing. Spiritual correctness will bring all kinds of welfare - social, emotional, economical.
Basically the authorities need to be detached, that's all. Everything is clear. What's lacking is detachment and faith in the philosophy's teachings and instructions. Without proper authority nothing can be achieved. HDG wanted brahmanas to be the authority for society ...
Protest Kumar Raviraj Subhash Gattani • an hour ago
Sir, if you are celibate or a Baal brahmachari, not that everyone be a naistika brahmachari like you. Mr pure, this class is not defined by their sexual orientation. Yes according to the shastras sex life is only for procreation, we do respect that but plz check urself once whether you have followed it in ur life or not Mr pure -- then talk. Preaching is very easy but practising is very difficult. Purity is must we do agree but I am asking you have you used ur sexual power " only " for begetting children then you plz preaching here or else we too Know what happens in your life too.......we respect Prabhupad and his teachings .
Raviraj Subhash Gattani • 9 hours ago
The links given by G Kesava Das in his comments are all either Wikipedia articles or a book by a non-devotee. No bonafide reference in any of the links.
Sri Niketan • 9 hours ago
We need to support Pancaratna Prabhu on this. We need to now speak in a unified voice as he said. Best for ISKCON India to throw out the GBC and let the Bureau run India.
Its simple. Srila Prabhupada started ISKCON and made it to be run according to his books and teachings. His books and teachings condemn Homosex. Of course homosexuals are welcome to join in but not practice any of their 'activities'. If some ISKCON members want to integrate Gayism in ISKCON then that is illegal and they will have no way to manipulate Guru, sadhu and sastra or Srila Prabhupada's teachings to fit it in. So they either leave ISKCON or agree to be called deviants. If they agree to be called deviants then they should be thrown out of ISKCON as why should deviants run ISKCON?
Protest Kumar Sri Niketan • an hour ago
His books and teachings condemn sex life other than procreation .,......... They won't support the homosexual activity. As an uttama adhikari he loved everyone ....,....... If you have used ur sexual power only for begetting children then you plz talk because you are perfect ..........if not don't lecture here , because his teachings are against sex other than procreation where in you also fall under this category .
G Keshava Das • a day ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...
While I am not a proponent of any form of homosexuality I would suggest that devotees educate themselves about the role that such minor sinful behaviour played in Indian society since time immemorial. Both hetero and homo sexuals sins are described in the sastras. But whereas in Mleccha sastras, like the Bible, homosexual sins are considered as cardinal or major sins, in the Vedic sastras they are considered as minor sins. The major sexual sins described in Vedic sastras are heterosexual because of the possibility of creation of varna sankara or unwanted progeny (see Gita 1.42).
Please read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...
The Arthashastra, an ancient Indian treatise on statecraft, mentions a wide variety of sexual practices which, whether performed with a man or a woman, were sought to be punished with the lowest grade of punishment / fine. While homosexual intercourse was not sanctioned, it was treated as a very minor offence, and several kinds of heterosexual intercourse were punished more severely.
Sex between non-virgin women incurred a small fine, while homosexual intercourse between men could be made up for merely with a bath with one's clothes on, and a penance of "eating the five products of the cow and keeping a one-night fast" – the penance being a replacement of the traditional concept of homosexual intercourse resulting in a loss of caste.
For Further information about sexual life in Ancient India Vols 1 & 2 people can
read: https://archive.org/details...
and: Vol 2: https://archive.org/details...
Of course some attitudes changed with the coming of the Mughal and British conquests and rule and even recently we see the Supreme Court of India ruling to legalize homosexuality:
On 24 August 2017, India's Supreme Court gave the country's LGBT community the freedom to safely express their sexual orientation. Therefore, an individual's sexual orientation is protected under the country's Right to Privacy law. However, the Supreme Court did not directly overturn any laws criminalizing same-sex relationships.
On 6 September 2018, consensual gay sex was legalised by India's Supreme Court.
Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC), dating back to 1861, makes sexual activities "against the order of nature" punishable by law and carries a life sentence.The law replaced the variety of punishments for Zina (unlawful intercourse) mandated in the Mughal empire's Fatawa-e-Alamgiri, these ranged from 50 lashes for a slave, 100 for a free infidel, to death by stoning for a Muslim. Similarly the Goa Inquisition once prosecuted the capital crime of sodomy in Portuguese India, but not lesbian acts.
There have also always been homosexuals in ISKCON, and during the time of Srila Prabhupada this was dealt with in a similar way as under the Clinton Administration's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy for gays in the US military.
So just like in India, ISKCON today finds itself having to speak more openly about this subject. Espcially now that it is legal in many countries including India.
Hari Bhakti Vilasa 1.200 states that the Guru has to examine the potential disciple and understand their sexuality apart from other qualifications when deciding what mantra to initiate them into.
Raviraj Subhash Gattani G Keshava Das • 9 hours ago
The links given by G Kesava Das in his comments are all either Wikipedia articles or a book by non-devotee. No bonafide reference in any of the links.
Ludovico Sforza Raviraj Subhash Gattani • 6 hours ago
As may have noticed by now that GK is a Kali chela, posing as a devotee who wants to sew chaos in Vaisnavism. Everything he writes has to be double and tripled checked as he is a kutarki.
Protest Kumar Ludovico Sforza • an hour ago
How can you say he's kalicela ..... don't judge ..... after all it's a virtual platform how can judge people in a discussion ...,.......no one can create chaos in vaishnavisam like you with ur judgmental nature ............ One should also check ur statements thousand times because subtle hate is there in ur comments...,..you can't generalise things. Purity is must to get out of this material world.............no matter one is homo , hetero or bi
[PADA: Basu Ghosh is actually arguing with his own shadow here. He all along said that the leaders of ISKCON are diksha GURUS, aka Krishna's successors. Now he is saying Krishna's successors are speaking bogus things. How is it that Krishna's successors are bogus and Basu Ghosh is bona fide?
And this is all part of the whole giant dog and pony circus act of folks like: Gaura Govinda maharaja, Rocana, Bhakti Vikas swami, Torben, Kailash, Hanuman Croatia, Tripurari swami, Narayan Maharaja, the GBC, the SAC, the SABHA, the Bureau, and maybe hundreds of other folks, who are all advertising that they are now the senior advisors to the ISKCON GBC guru successors to GOD ALMIGHTY.
Thus! They are all offering admonition, chastisement, correction, and general fix-it repair advice to the (alleged) messiah successors to God. Why would God's successors need this lot to give them advice and correction? So this proves that they all think God's successors are faulty, defective, conditioned beings who need to be: voted in, voted out, corrected, censured, advised, chastised, monitored for deviations, suspended, removed, excommunicated, and maybe have the cops called to stop them from criminal behaviors. That is how we treat God's successor gurus?
Wait a minute, how did all these little pipsqueaks self-advertised advisors telescope themselves to become the higher authority than GOD's guru successors? Or are we right to say, these gurus are bogus, and not actually God's successors, they are being falsely advertised as such? So now we have the problem of these false messiahs voting in more and more deviations, and nothing can be done because, no one is supposed to question the guru.
Ooops, unless they are not really gurus? Why aren't they just saying hey, these guys are doing all these bogus things because PADA is right, they are not gurus, and we need to re-establish Srila Prabhupada as the guru. Anyway, this is all a sign the cult melt down is getting hotter and hotter as the melting down gets worse and worse. ys pd]
Yes, everyone laughed when Srila Prabhupada joked about worship of bogus gurus. And then -- those same God brother people laughed at me when I said we cannot worship bogus gurus. They went into mass hysteria, something like the Salem witch hunting hysteria era, they lost their minds en masse and thought illusion was reality.
ReplyDeleteBy the time they realized they had made a mistake, ISKCON was already in the legal hands of the pirates, too little too late. A bunch of the God brothers went to a Harvard meeting recently where they were still supporting Anuttama. Wow! These God brothers still support the child molester guru regime even after all the evidence is in. They cannot admit they made a big mistake. Its all about ego preservation at this point, there is nothing else left for them to preserve. ys pd