https://iskconicc.com/
PADA: The "ISKCON India Continental Committee" (ICC) is a sort of parallel committee to the GBC managed by folks like Basu Ghosh and Bhakti Vikas swami, and its supposedly an oversight of the GBC's committee. Currently the ICC is opposing the GBC's vote to ordain female diksha gurus. Meanwhile, as Hanuman Croatia points out, the real problem is that they are rubber stamping gurus in the first place, whether male or female.
And Hanuman points out that so many other deviations have been going on left, right and center, but the ICC only pipes up when the female diksha guru problem has risen up. The ICC has not opposed the whole GBC idea of declaring that acharyas are often fallen debauchees. And not only that, the ICC helps along the whole idea that conditioned souls are acharyas by giving "disciple classes" where "ISKCON disciples" are given instructions on how to handle the situation in case their guru is becoming a giant deviant and debauchee. In other words the ICC is training people with the idea that gurus are often conditioned souls, if not fallen down debauchees.
ICC Upcoming Events
VAIṢṆAVA CULTURE COURSE
Gaura Purnima Festival Schedule – 2020
ISKCON DISCIPLES COURSE (ENG) BATCH1
ISKCON DISCIPLES COURSE (HINDI)
ONLINE BHAKTI SASTRI _ ENGLISH
BHAKTI-ŚĀSTRĪ (भक्ति-शास्त्री) COURSE (HINDI)
One of the leaders in the ICC "conditioned soul acharyas" program is Krishna Kirti das:
----- Forwarded message -----
PADA: The "ISKCON India Continental Committee" (ICC) is a sort of parallel committee to the GBC managed by folks like Basu Ghosh and Bhakti Vikas swami, and its supposedly an oversight of the GBC's committee. Currently the ICC is opposing the GBC's vote to ordain female diksha gurus. Meanwhile, as Hanuman Croatia points out, the real problem is that they are rubber stamping gurus in the first place, whether male or female.
And Hanuman points out that so many other deviations have been going on left, right and center, but the ICC only pipes up when the female diksha guru problem has risen up. The ICC has not opposed the whole GBC idea of declaring that acharyas are often fallen debauchees. And not only that, the ICC helps along the whole idea that conditioned souls are acharyas by giving "disciple classes" where "ISKCON disciples" are given instructions on how to handle the situation in case their guru is becoming a giant deviant and debauchee. In other words the ICC is training people with the idea that gurus are often conditioned souls, if not fallen down debauchees.
ICC Upcoming Events
VAIṢṆAVA CULTURE COURSE
Gaura Purnima Festival Schedule – 2020
ISKCON DISCIPLES COURSE (ENG) BATCH1
ISKCON DISCIPLES COURSE (HINDI)
ONLINE BHAKTI SASTRI _ ENGLISH
BHAKTI-ŚĀSTRĪ (भक्ति-शास्त्री) COURSE (HINDI)
One of the leaders in the ICC "conditioned soul acharyas" program is Krishna Kirti das:
----- Forwarded message -----
From: Krishna Kirti Das <krishnakirti@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2020, 05:38:27 GMT
Subject: Re: ONLY MAHA-BHAGAVATA IS DIKSA GURU: Srila Prabhupada is OUR Diksa Guru For As Long as His Books Are On The Planet
I have no idea who you are. But the idea that only a Mahabhagavata can be a diksha-guru is not supported by either Srila Prabhupada or shastras. Indeed, they support the opposite conclusion. Nectar of Devotion, Chapter 6, which is about the 64 principles of sadhana-bhakti, the 13th principle is that one should not accept too many disciples.
Subject: Re: ONLY MAHA-BHAGAVATA IS DIKSA GURU: Srila Prabhupada is OUR Diksa Guru For As Long as His Books Are On The Planet
I have no idea who you are. But the idea that only a Mahabhagavata can be a diksha-guru is not supported by either Srila Prabhupada or shastras. Indeed, they support the opposite conclusion. Nectar of Devotion, Chapter 6, which is about the 64 principles of sadhana-bhakti, the 13th principle is that one should not accept too many disciples.
Notice that this is in a list of principles for sadhana-bhakti, not sadhya-bhakti (perfectional stage). That means those less than Mahabhagavatas can become diksha-guru. Srila Prabhupada explains this point further in Caitanya-caritamrita, Madhya-lila 22.118, bahu-sishya na kariba, " Unless he is very powerful, he cannot assimilate all the sinful reactions of his disciples and has to suffer the consequences. Therefore one is generally forbidden to accept many disciples."
Notice that this is the same list in NoD chapter 6, 64 principles of sadhana-bhakti. The conclusion here is that a suitably qualified sadhaka, someone who is NOT on the perfectional stage of devotional service, a Mahabhagavata, can become a diksha-guru.
PADA: Wait a minute? OK so now a conditioned soul can become a diksha guru and absorb sins like Jesus "as long as he does not take too many disciples"? And one of the GBC / ICC approved gurus is Jayapataka, and he says he wants to have 50,000 disciples. That is not "too many"? How many are too many? And there are also many quotes (often given by people like Mahesh Raja) how the guru must be an uttama adhikary, pure devotee, resident of Krishna loka and etc.
And if we look at the state of Jayapataka, who himself says these GBC gurus have to suffer reactions from taking sins, it appears that the GBC's limit of 50,000 is WAY TOO MANY. Of course many "lesser" GBC gurus who only took a small handful of disciples still had major problems with sickness, fall downs, madness etc. anyway. So its amazing to me that people like Hanuman Croatia think Bhakti Vikas swami's program is bona fide, because its only allocating 50,000 disciples for a conditioned soul acharya, and this is "not too many." If your doctor tells you "do not take too many aspirins," and you take 50,000, then what?
When we were in India Srila Prabhupada said we should not allow ANYONE to touch our feet because we will be acting as diksha gurus and we will be taking their sins, and we would thus fall down, get sick, or both. Another time he simply said if we take sins we will have to suffer. He never came up with this ridiculous concept that we should "only allow" up to 50,000 people to touch our feet, otherwise that would be "too many." A conditioned soul cannot absorb the sins of another conditioned soul, even one other soul, and that's all there is to it.
Why does the Bhakti Vikas swami ICC program think taking the sins of 50,000 people is "not too many," when Jayapataka and his cohorts have been getting sick, falling down, and dying prematurely with way less than 50,000? This 50,000 limit seems like an arbitrary concocted figure. And if taking the sins of even one person is forbidden because it could make us get sick, fall down or worse, what happens if we take 50,000 people's sins?
And then again Srila Prabhupada says that the Gaudiya Matha had a bunch of gurus with a dozen or half dozen disciples, and this was creating a schism. And that is why he said among my God brothers no one is qualified to be acharya, never mind the former hamburger eating sector.
In any case, Srila Prabhupada also told us that if a layman performs brain surgery, there will be chaos and people will die. And "guru" is way beyond brain surgery. So we should allow laymen to be gurus, and we should allow laymen to be brain surgeons, knowing that there will be so many bad results as we have all witnessed ALREADY with the GBC's bogus guru process.
Sorry, but Srila Prabhupada says the reason an uttama guru is not affected by sins is because he has brahmana tejyas which burns off those sins. He said if a neophyte tries to take sins he will be overwhelmed because he does not have this potency. Its not a question of a neophyte accepting not too many sins, or way too many sins, a neophyte cannot burn of ANY sins from others because he does not have ANY uttama brahmana tejyas.
OK so the GBC and ICC process says that a conditioned soul neophyte can absorb the sins of "not too many people" and 50,000 is "not too many people." This makes no sense at all? And their guru who takes the sins of 50,000 people is famously very ill if not incapacitated and has to undergo serious medical operations on a regular basis, because self evidently he is overloaded with the sins of others. So all of this is not making a whole lot of sense?
A neophyte is equal to Jesus, he can absorb sins, but he cannot take "too many sins" or he will suffer sickness, fall down and death, and therefore the limit of "not too many" is 50,000? Seriously pilgrims? And Bhakti vikas swami's ICC has designated 50,000 as not too many, when their star 50,000 limit guru is suffering terribly already from the results of taking sins in this life, never mind the next.
Meanwhile the ICC is making programs to teach new people how to worship a GBC guru, with a warning that their GBC guru might be a debauchee. At the same time the ICC is saying the whole entire GBC guru program is bogus for passing legislation to make female diksha gurus. Did anyone mention that all this is self-contradiction and makes no sense at all? ys pd
==================================
From Hanuman Croatia:
We all want to establish a society based on Krishna conscious, but we should not be hypocritical while we try to do it. As Indian machos are pushing against female diksa gurus, I am having two problems with this approach. The first problem is their whole approach revolves around the illusory concept of guru rubber stamping. Traditionally, a guru is guru only to his disciples, and he becomes guru by showing competence in knowledge of Srila Prabhupada’s books, and by his personal example.
On the other hand, the ISKCON Gestapo organization puts gurus on the “guru list” and portrays them as universally perfect. Thus, they put intelligent people in the position that they have to glorify and offer obeisances to Sacinandana “Swami”, who is a Ramesh baba follower and who travels around the world with his girlfriend for the last 10 years. And you can’t say anything against this cheater because he is “on the guru list”, and GBC members who voted him to be guru are equally retarded.
If I want to be a member of ISKCON, I have to glorify Radhanath “maharaja”, mayavadi who also associates with Ramesh baba sahajiya and builds hospitals. And he also placed miniskirt girl as manager of his Govardhana Eco village. Additionally, he plays blues with new-age mayavadis on the Bhaktifest. All around nonsense guy must be glorified by everybody because he is on the “guru list”.
So, female gurus are not the problem, the guru list itself is a problem.
So, if we have female gurus, what is the problem. We already had at least 5 sannyasis in ISKCON who had young, unmarried female secretaries. Yet, Indian machos failed to send a strong statement against this nonsense. So, can somebody explain to me how a female guru is more deviant than sannyasi guru with a young, unmarried female secretary?
Due to the influence of Ramesh baba disco dance, Radhanath baba introduced a “counselor system”. Counselor system is like cancer spreading throughout India. By participating in this system, you will remain permanently retarded, glorifying Radhanath baba as “pure devotee”. You will also not be able to see a difference between Ramesh baba and genuine devotees, and you will definitely not be able to see the difference between pure devotional service and Hospital building.
Additionally, In this counselor system, celibate monks are “counseling women”. Such celibate “counselors” sometimes steal a wife of the people who took shelter of them. If Indian machos such as Basu Ghosh and Krishna Kirti would like to establish a more Vedic society, they should deal with a “twisted counselor system”, and divorce leader, who after stealing another man’s wife, engaged himself in “education”.
And the major culprit who didn’t train his disciples properly is mayavadi Radhanath baba. But hey, how could he train his disciples in staying away from women, when his “best friend” Ramesh baba spends his nights watching girls dance. He will never be able to give real knowledge because his brahmacaries are practicing yoga with girls. And also, on his Govardhana eco village, he is organizing girl-touching seminars.
Today, we are publishing a story written by a disciple of Radhanath Swami, whose wife was snatched by “counselor women hunter”.
The horror story of Radhanath’s counselor-wife-stealer system
Hare Krishna HH Radhanath Swami Maharaj, Dandvat Pranam
Please accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Prabhupada, All glories to Guru & Gauranga
From Your Disciple
Amala Nitai Das (Arsh Khanna)
[PADA: This is good, however Hanuman Croatia still has failed to answer who we should offer bhogha and disciples to now. He is against the GBC system, but he does not know what is the right system. To say we have to offer bhogha and disciples to "no one" is mayavada. He never identifies who we offer these items to despite our asking him for years. OK he does not know the answer. If he does not even know who gets the offering of these items, he has not understood how to approach Krishna. ys pd] angel108b@yahoo.com
PADA: Wait a minute? OK so now a conditioned soul can become a diksha guru and absorb sins like Jesus "as long as he does not take too many disciples"? And one of the GBC / ICC approved gurus is Jayapataka, and he says he wants to have 50,000 disciples. That is not "too many"? How many are too many? And there are also many quotes (often given by people like Mahesh Raja) how the guru must be an uttama adhikary, pure devotee, resident of Krishna loka and etc.
And if we look at the state of Jayapataka, who himself says these GBC gurus have to suffer reactions from taking sins, it appears that the GBC's limit of 50,000 is WAY TOO MANY. Of course many "lesser" GBC gurus who only took a small handful of disciples still had major problems with sickness, fall downs, madness etc. anyway. So its amazing to me that people like Hanuman Croatia think Bhakti Vikas swami's program is bona fide, because its only allocating 50,000 disciples for a conditioned soul acharya, and this is "not too many." If your doctor tells you "do not take too many aspirins," and you take 50,000, then what?
When we were in India Srila Prabhupada said we should not allow ANYONE to touch our feet because we will be acting as diksha gurus and we will be taking their sins, and we would thus fall down, get sick, or both. Another time he simply said if we take sins we will have to suffer. He never came up with this ridiculous concept that we should "only allow" up to 50,000 people to touch our feet, otherwise that would be "too many." A conditioned soul cannot absorb the sins of another conditioned soul, even one other soul, and that's all there is to it.
Why does the Bhakti Vikas swami ICC program think taking the sins of 50,000 people is "not too many," when Jayapataka and his cohorts have been getting sick, falling down, and dying prematurely with way less than 50,000? This 50,000 limit seems like an arbitrary concocted figure. And if taking the sins of even one person is forbidden because it could make us get sick, fall down or worse, what happens if we take 50,000 people's sins?
And then again Srila Prabhupada says that the Gaudiya Matha had a bunch of gurus with a dozen or half dozen disciples, and this was creating a schism. And that is why he said among my God brothers no one is qualified to be acharya, never mind the former hamburger eating sector.
In any case, Srila Prabhupada also told us that if a layman performs brain surgery, there will be chaos and people will die. And "guru" is way beyond brain surgery. So we should allow laymen to be gurus, and we should allow laymen to be brain surgeons, knowing that there will be so many bad results as we have all witnessed ALREADY with the GBC's bogus guru process.
Sorry, but Srila Prabhupada says the reason an uttama guru is not affected by sins is because he has brahmana tejyas which burns off those sins. He said if a neophyte tries to take sins he will be overwhelmed because he does not have this potency. Its not a question of a neophyte accepting not too many sins, or way too many sins, a neophyte cannot burn of ANY sins from others because he does not have ANY uttama brahmana tejyas.
And then again there are the effects of people
simply going BONKERS
from taking sins.
A neophyte is equal to Jesus, he can absorb sins, but he cannot take "too many sins" or he will suffer sickness, fall down and death, and therefore the limit of "not too many" is 50,000? Seriously pilgrims? And Bhakti vikas swami's ICC has designated 50,000 as not too many, when their star 50,000 limit guru is suffering terribly already from the results of taking sins in this life, never mind the next.
Meanwhile the ICC is making programs to teach new people how to worship a GBC guru, with a warning that their GBC guru might be a debauchee. At the same time the ICC is saying the whole entire GBC guru program is bogus for passing legislation to make female diksha gurus. Did anyone mention that all this is self-contradiction and makes no sense at all? ys pd
==================================
From Hanuman Croatia:
We all want to establish a society based on Krishna conscious, but we should not be hypocritical while we try to do it. As Indian machos are pushing against female diksa gurus, I am having two problems with this approach. The first problem is their whole approach revolves around the illusory concept of guru rubber stamping. Traditionally, a guru is guru only to his disciples, and he becomes guru by showing competence in knowledge of Srila Prabhupada’s books, and by his personal example.
On the other hand, the ISKCON Gestapo organization puts gurus on the “guru list” and portrays them as universally perfect. Thus, they put intelligent people in the position that they have to glorify and offer obeisances to Sacinandana “Swami”, who is a Ramesh baba follower and who travels around the world with his girlfriend for the last 10 years. And you can’t say anything against this cheater because he is “on the guru list”, and GBC members who voted him to be guru are equally retarded.
If I want to be a member of ISKCON, I have to glorify Radhanath “maharaja”, mayavadi who also associates with Ramesh baba sahajiya and builds hospitals. And he also placed miniskirt girl as manager of his Govardhana Eco village. Additionally, he plays blues with new-age mayavadis on the Bhaktifest. All around nonsense guy must be glorified by everybody because he is on the “guru list”.
So, female gurus are not the problem, the guru list itself is a problem.
So, if we have female gurus, what is the problem. We already had at least 5 sannyasis in ISKCON who had young, unmarried female secretaries. Yet, Indian machos failed to send a strong statement against this nonsense. So, can somebody explain to me how a female guru is more deviant than sannyasi guru with a young, unmarried female secretary?
Due to the influence of Ramesh baba disco dance, Radhanath baba introduced a “counselor system”. Counselor system is like cancer spreading throughout India. By participating in this system, you will remain permanently retarded, glorifying Radhanath baba as “pure devotee”. You will also not be able to see a difference between Ramesh baba and genuine devotees, and you will definitely not be able to see the difference between pure devotional service and Hospital building.
Additionally, In this counselor system, celibate monks are “counseling women”. Such celibate “counselors” sometimes steal a wife of the people who took shelter of them. If Indian machos such as Basu Ghosh and Krishna Kirti would like to establish a more Vedic society, they should deal with a “twisted counselor system”, and divorce leader, who after stealing another man’s wife, engaged himself in “education”.
And the major culprit who didn’t train his disciples properly is mayavadi Radhanath baba. But hey, how could he train his disciples in staying away from women, when his “best friend” Ramesh baba spends his nights watching girls dance. He will never be able to give real knowledge because his brahmacaries are practicing yoga with girls. And also, on his Govardhana eco village, he is organizing girl-touching seminars.
Today, we are publishing a story written by a disciple of Radhanath Swami, whose wife was snatched by “counselor women hunter”.
The horror story of Radhanath’s counselor-wife-stealer system
Hare Krishna HH Radhanath Swami Maharaj, Dandvat Pranam
Please accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Prabhupada, All glories to Guru & Gauranga
From Your Disciple
Amala Nitai Das (Arsh Khanna)
[PADA: This is good, however Hanuman Croatia still has failed to answer who we should offer bhogha and disciples to now. He is against the GBC system, but he does not know what is the right system. To say we have to offer bhogha and disciples to "no one" is mayavada. He never identifies who we offer these items to despite our asking him for years. OK he does not know the answer. If he does not even know who gets the offering of these items, he has not understood how to approach Krishna. ys pd] angel108b@yahoo.com
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