HARIKESH AND CHILDREN
PADA: Yes, when Harikesh left he evidently said the reason is -- there is too much widespread child mistreatment all over the society. Yep, exactly the reason why his program booted me out in 1979. I said there is widespread child mistreatment.
He also knew we were getting booted, and he was booting dozens of people himself. And he later must have knew that was why me and Sulochana were targets in 1984. We said -- there is widespread child mistreatment. He never supported us or acknowledged us ever, even now. If there is widespread child mistreatment going on, and we are reporting it for decades, his job as a leader is to support us whistle blowers. He never did. Probably, never will.
All kinds of people tell me this all the time, "once we realized how corrupt it was, and that the leaders are mostly adharma and asura (and pro-homosexual and pedophile) we left." Oh great, so you left the ISKCON society and its women, children, elders and cows in the hands of the adharma and asura crowd. Thanks a lot buster!
ys pd
ZN: Interesting it reminds me on case Epstein files ... something going on the level of "deep state" against humanity on this planet .. many leaders were influenced.
MEGALOMANIA
As Dr. J. Stilson Judah explained to me, a person who believes he is God's living successor on earth is something like a delusional megalomaniac. He is not a person who can be given good advice, bad advice, or any advice, he believes he is beyond all of the rules and regulations of us minor peon mortals. And that places us minor peon mortals in a lot of peril. And this type of peril can be fatal. And he said in my case -- it probably will be fatal. He did not expect me to survive and wanted me to go into Federal witness protection.
Megalomania consistently refers to: A delusional belief in one’s own power, importance, or greatness; An unnaturally strong desire for power and control; A psychopathological condition involving fantasies of wealth, omnipotence, or grandeur; A mental illness marked by an inflated sense of self‑importance; A belief that one is more powerful or important than reality supports; All sources agree on the core idea: grandiosity, power‑obsession, and inflated self‑importance. He said, they are not going to listen to the admonishing of others, thinking the peons have no authority over God's spokesman. These type people are not going to listen as a general principle. Hansadutta told me that too, Why would God's spokesman need anyone's advice at all? ys pd
======
ZN: Interesting it reminds me on case Epstein files ... something going on the level of "deep state" against humanity on this planet .. many leaders were influenced.
MEGALOMANIA
As Dr. J. Stilson Judah explained to me, a person who believes he is God's living successor on earth is something like a delusional megalomaniac. He is not a person who can be given good advice, bad advice, or any advice, he believes he is beyond all of the rules and regulations of us minor peon mortals. And that places us minor peon mortals in a lot of peril. And this type of peril can be fatal. And he said in my case -- it probably will be fatal. He did not expect me to survive and wanted me to go into Federal witness protection.
Megalomania consistently refers to: A delusional belief in one’s own power, importance, or greatness; An unnaturally strong desire for power and control; A psychopathological condition involving fantasies of wealth, omnipotence, or grandeur; A mental illness marked by an inflated sense of self‑importance; A belief that one is more powerful or important than reality supports; All sources agree on the core idea: grandiosity, power‑obsession, and inflated self‑importance. He said, they are not going to listen to the admonishing of others, thinking the peons have no authority over God's spokesman. These type people are not going to listen as a general principle. Hansadutta told me that too, Why would God's spokesman need anyone's advice at all? ys pd
======
KAUNTEYA ON STRI DHARMA
S Devidasi
With respect, I think the issue depends on whether we are speaking academically, culturally, or according to Śrīla Prabhupāda’s own presentation. Academically, ISKCON is often placed within the wider Hindu/Vaishnava family because it follows Gaudiya Vaishnavism and accepts the Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Vedic scriptures.
However, Śrīla Prabhupāda himself was very clear that he did not want Krishna consciousness reduced to the label “Hinduism”. He said: “This word Hindu is not a Sanskrit word… the real cultural institution is called varnasrama.”
He also said of the Krishna consciousness movement: “It is not Indian or Hinduism. It is for all the people of the world.”
In another conversation he explained that when devotees say “we are not Hindu,” the meaning is not hostility towards Hindus, but that Krishna is not restricted to one community. He said: “We are not restricted to the Hindus… We actually spreading universal brotherhood.” He also said, “Hindus are included but Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to Hindus.”
So my understanding is: ISKCON is rooted in Gaudiya Vaishnavism, which many people classify under Hinduism, but Prabhupāda’s own emphasis was that Krishna consciousness is universal, non-sectarian, and not limited to the social, ethnic, or modern religious label “Hindu.” Therefore, saying “ISKCON is Hinduism” is too simplistic. A more accurate statement would be: ISKCON is a Gaudiya Vaishnava movement presenting Krishna bhakti as universal sanātana-dharma.
References:
“This word Hindu is not a Sanskrit word…”
Śrīla Prabhupāda explains that “Hindu” is not originally a Sanskrit term and that the real system is varṇāśrama.
Link: https://prabhupadabooks.com/ssr/6/spiritual_communism
Source confirms the wording: “This word Hindu is not a Sanskrit word…”
“It is not Indian or Hinduism. It is for all the people of the world.”
This is from a 1969 conversation with John Lennon, Yoko Ono and George Harrison.
Link: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1969/aug/with_john_lennon_yoko_ono_and_george_harrison/london/september/11/1969
“We are not Hindu means… we are not restricted to the Hindus.”
This page is very useful because it gathers Prabhupāda quotes explaining that Krishna consciousness is universal, not limited to the Hindu community.
Link: https://vaniquotes.org/wiki/We_are_not_Hindu_means
It includes the quote: “Hindus are included but Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to Hindus.”
T Krishna: Bhavananda the Beast, who rapes children, is the demon who has been leading that TOVP project. So isn't it interesting that he has used the same dome architecture as the Vatican? They have hijacked the movement and turned it into something like the Catholic Church.
AT: Yes, yes Srila Prabhupada said you will not find the word anywhere in any vedic scriptures anywhere, all man made concoction, But Srila Prabhupada that we should never leave iskcon, Srila said as the saying England with all your faults I love you still, that should be our motto, " iskcon with all your faults I love you still,
Hare Krishna prabhu
TK: Did he actually say that though? Take a look at this interesting book change in that regard...
ORIGINAL 1975 PURPORT EXTRACT FROM CC MADHYA 19.157:
“If one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master.”
CHANGED 1996 VERSION WITH JAYADVAITA'S ADDITIONAL STATEMENT:
"Even if one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society, still one should stick to the Society; if one thinks the Society’s members are not pure devotees, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master."
YD: ... and Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita As It Is 18.66. ...
ED: Hindu is a broad Kali Yuga term used by the masses to loosely identify Sanatana dharma and the family tree stemming from Sri Krishna, Vishnu, Brahma, Siva. If we want to be accurate in describing something we love and adore. We use the best description possible.
Srila Gurudeva has mentioned in audio recordings that the term isn’t in sastra and is ambiguous. But he also uses the term to refer to the broad following of Sanatana Dharma and give his listeners context, because that’s all they know, how else would He logically describe something?. It doesn’t matter if individuals want to use it or identify with it.
It’s just not the best way to describe Krishna consciousness. And as for Vaishnava devotees using the term officially for their organisations, I would think is a symptom of Kali Yuga and not the best practice. And I assume it will only be popular amongst neophyte groups.
I hope this comment doesn’t offend anyone.
H Das: "And so far we are concerned, Hindus, or the followers of the Vedic religion, there is no difference of opinion so far Kṛṣṇa's authority is concerned. There are five authorities, recognized authorities, in India so far this is..., spiritual life is concerned. One of them is Śrī Rāmānujācārya and other is Śaṅkarācārya." [Lecture on Maha-mantra -- New York, September 8, 1966]
D Dasa: I think that a bunch of things get mixed up together….. Philosophical pedantism. It was a consistent teaching of Prabhupada’s that Krishna consciousness is beyond upadhis like Christianity, Islam, Hinduism…
But there were instances where he said such things as:
“The Krishna consciousness movement is the genuine Hindu movement.”
Letter to Janardana
December 26, 1968
“This Krishna consciousness movement is actually the genuine Hindu culture.”
Letter to Gurudasa
August 3, 1969
“So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a cultural movement for reviving the original consciousness of the living entity. It is not a sectarian religious faith, although it is based on the highest principles of Hindu religion.”
Lecture on Bhagavad-gita As It Is 4.1
March 27, 1974
It is not OBJECTIONABLE philosophically to accept that we are typically classified thus. It’s label/category that people understand rather than our trying to convey - well we are actually in this obscure branch of Vaisnavism…..
Akhandadhi and co leveraged the “if you want to shut down Bhaktivedanta Manor, then you’ll have to deal with the UK’s entire Hindu population” tactic was helpful in the campaign to keep the Manor open.
Of course, many would observe that the Manor’s entire “personality” has changed from the nature it had in its first 10 years of operation or so to what it is now.
Beyond the philosophical pedantism, there may well be an identity issue….. “I don’t want to be seen as a Hindu”…..
And the legitimate concern that the concentrations of Indians attending temple possibly deters Westerners from engaging…..
These all need separating out. And people also need to reckon within themselves as to whether their discomfort with that highly generalise label has more to do with a low impression of “Hinduism” or not…..
Another worry could be that some temples might be introducing non Gaudiya forms of worship that Prabhupada wouldn’t approve of.
(NB. I asked Chat GPT to source those quotes so I will quickly check their veracity)
H Das: "According to Vedic civilization, cow is to be given all protection. The Hindus or followers of the Vedic religion, why they are interested to give protection to the cows, not to the..., not so much to the other animals?" [Sunday Feast Lecture -- Atlanta, March 2, 1975]
"Prabhupāda: So far Hindu religion is concerned, it is a very broad thinking. The Hindu religion, Vedic religion, is divided into two kinds of philosophers. One kinds of philosopher is the impersonalist. They take the Absolute Truth as impersonal, all-pervading impersonal. And the another philosophers, they take that the Supreme Absolute Truth is person. The impersonal feature is one of the features of that person, but ultimately he is person. So without person there cannot be any question of love." [Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle]
I dont know we are making a big deal about the word Hindu. We need to understand that the vedic religion is today known as Hinduism. Within Hinduism there are vaisnavas, sakta's, mayavadis etc. Sanatana Dharma and Hinduism are interchangeable today. The other Vaishnava sampradaya’s have no issues using the word Hindu, then why do we have issues. If one does not like it then dont use it, but let's not create unnecessary discussion on this. Tbh we are not these bodies, but yet we associate ourselves as male, female, American Indian etc. Spiritually we are spirit soul, but yet we associate ourselves with something.
This family is facing a tough time after Mahadevs little daughter (almost 2 years old ) was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes just last Monday, May 4, a few weeks before her 2nd birthday.
They’re working hard to manage her health and upcoming needs, but the financial strain from missed work and medical costs is significant.
This fundraiser is just getting started, and sharing helps so much in the early days. Even if you can’t donate, a quick share can help it reach people who may be able to support.
Don’t Use "Dharma" to Excuse Abuse
Another devotee objected to my emphasis on the dharma of the husband to protect the wife:
“The concept of dharma is independent of the external conditions. If you protect dharma, dharma protects you … This is the Vedic idea, not protectorate calculation and victimism. This is the ontology (as it is) principle of dharma, that is a high ideal.”
On the social level, the “Vedic idea” is exactly what this devotee disdains as “protectorate calculation.” Srila Prabhupada explains (SB 1.14.41, purport):
“The brāhmaṇas, who are always engaged in researching knowledge for the society's welfare work, both materially and spiritually, deserve the protection of the king in all respects. Similarly, the children of the state, the cow, the diseased person, the woman and the old man specifically require the protection of the state or a kṣatriya king. If such living beings do not get protection by the kṣatriya, or the royal order, or by the state, it is certainly shameful for the kṣatriya or the state.”
“The brāhmaṇas, who are always engaged in researching knowledge for the society's welfare work, both materially and spiritually, deserve the protection of the king in all respects. Similarly, the children of the state, the cow, the diseased person, the woman and the old man specifically require the protection of the state or a kṣatriya king. If such living beings do not get protection by the kṣatriya, or the royal order, or by the state, it is certainly shameful for the kṣatriya or the state.”
A husband’s dharma, a king’s dharma, a parent’s dharma, and a community’s dharma cannot be erased by telling vulnerable people to simply perform their own duties better.
A balanced dharmic understanding would say: dharma protects — but dharma also includes the protector’s duty to protect.
I do not reject the principle “dharma protects.”
I reject its selective, one-sided application.
Karma is real, and personal responsibility is real. But “victim-responsibilizing dharma” becomes problematic when the doctrine of karma is used to minimize, excuse, or bypass the moral responsibility of others. In dharmic thought, multiple truths operate simultaneously.
A person may be experiencing karmic reactions, yet another person can still be acting adharmically toward them. The existence of karma does not erase accountability. Each of us has the responsibility to see our suffering as the consequence of our action, but this doesn’t excuse the perpetrators of abuse.
That devotee continued his critique:
“Sooner or later our bhakti is tested through dharmic adherence, when we need to decide, whether saranagati is a calculative business transaction or unconditional surrender. The test is than repeated life after life, until we fully understand that bhakti behind dharma gives higher platform beyond protection, justice, truth and similar externalities.”
Individually, yes, we should all cultivate the spirit of acceptance of our personal predicament as a result of our past choices and not be diverted or distracted from our bhakti progress – I agree.
But a community that depreciates and delegitimizes “protection, justice, truth and similar externalities” can turn into a jungle of selfish beasts.
PADA: "Can turn into a jungle of selfish beasts." Wowsers. Could not have said it better myself. ys pd
=================
HINDU-IZED ISKCON
S Devidasi
With respect, I think the issue depends on whether we are speaking academically, culturally, or according to Śrīla Prabhupāda’s own presentation. Academically, ISKCON is often placed within the wider Hindu/Vaishnava family because it follows Gaudiya Vaishnavism and accepts the Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Vedic scriptures.
However, Śrīla Prabhupāda himself was very clear that he did not want Krishna consciousness reduced to the label “Hinduism”. He said: “This word Hindu is not a Sanskrit word… the real cultural institution is called varnasrama.”
He also said of the Krishna consciousness movement: “It is not Indian or Hinduism. It is for all the people of the world.”
In another conversation he explained that when devotees say “we are not Hindu,” the meaning is not hostility towards Hindus, but that Krishna is not restricted to one community. He said: “We are not restricted to the Hindus… We actually spreading universal brotherhood.” He also said, “Hindus are included but Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to Hindus.”
So my understanding is: ISKCON is rooted in Gaudiya Vaishnavism, which many people classify under Hinduism, but Prabhupāda’s own emphasis was that Krishna consciousness is universal, non-sectarian, and not limited to the social, ethnic, or modern religious label “Hindu.” Therefore, saying “ISKCON is Hinduism” is too simplistic. A more accurate statement would be: ISKCON is a Gaudiya Vaishnava movement presenting Krishna bhakti as universal sanātana-dharma.
References:
“This word Hindu is not a Sanskrit word…”
Śrīla Prabhupāda explains that “Hindu” is not originally a Sanskrit term and that the real system is varṇāśrama.
Link: https://prabhupadabooks.com/ssr/6/spiritual_communism
Source confirms the wording: “This word Hindu is not a Sanskrit word…”
“It is not Indian or Hinduism. It is for all the people of the world.”
This is from a 1969 conversation with John Lennon, Yoko Ono and George Harrison.
Link: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1969/aug/with_john_lennon_yoko_ono_and_george_harrison/london/september/11/1969
“We are not Hindu means… we are not restricted to the Hindus.”
This page is very useful because it gathers Prabhupāda quotes explaining that Krishna consciousness is universal, not limited to the Hindu community.
Link: https://vaniquotes.org/wiki/We_are_not_Hindu_means
It includes the quote: “Hindus are included but Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to Hindus.”
T Krishna: Bhavananda the Beast, who rapes children, is the demon who has been leading that TOVP project. So isn't it interesting that he has used the same dome architecture as the Vatican? They have hijacked the movement and turned it into something like the Catholic Church.
AT: Yes, yes Srila Prabhupada said you will not find the word anywhere in any vedic scriptures anywhere, all man made concoction, But Srila Prabhupada that we should never leave iskcon, Srila said as the saying England with all your faults I love you still, that should be our motto, " iskcon with all your faults I love you still,
Hare Krishna prabhu
TK: Did he actually say that though? Take a look at this interesting book change in that regard...
ORIGINAL 1975 PURPORT EXTRACT FROM CC MADHYA 19.157:
“If one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master.”
CHANGED 1996 VERSION WITH JAYADVAITA'S ADDITIONAL STATEMENT:
"Even if one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society, still one should stick to the Society; if one thinks the Society’s members are not pure devotees, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master."
YD: ... and Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita As It Is 18.66. ...
ED: Hindu is a broad Kali Yuga term used by the masses to loosely identify Sanatana dharma and the family tree stemming from Sri Krishna, Vishnu, Brahma, Siva. If we want to be accurate in describing something we love and adore. We use the best description possible.
Srila Gurudeva has mentioned in audio recordings that the term isn’t in sastra and is ambiguous. But he also uses the term to refer to the broad following of Sanatana Dharma and give his listeners context, because that’s all they know, how else would He logically describe something?. It doesn’t matter if individuals want to use it or identify with it.
It’s just not the best way to describe Krishna consciousness. And as for Vaishnava devotees using the term officially for their organisations, I would think is a symptom of Kali Yuga and not the best practice. And I assume it will only be popular amongst neophyte groups.
I hope this comment doesn’t offend anyone.
Om Tat Sat
H Das: "And so far we are concerned, Hindus, or the followers of the Vedic religion, there is no difference of opinion so far Kṛṣṇa's authority is concerned. There are five authorities, recognized authorities, in India so far this is..., spiritual life is concerned. One of them is Śrī Rāmānujācārya and other is Śaṅkarācārya." [Lecture on Maha-mantra -- New York, September 8, 1966]
D Dasa: I think that a bunch of things get mixed up together….. Philosophical pedantism. It was a consistent teaching of Prabhupada’s that Krishna consciousness is beyond upadhis like Christianity, Islam, Hinduism…
But there were instances where he said such things as:
“The Krishna consciousness movement is the genuine Hindu movement.”
Letter to Janardana
December 26, 1968
“This Krishna consciousness movement is actually the genuine Hindu culture.”
Letter to Gurudasa
August 3, 1969
“So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a cultural movement for reviving the original consciousness of the living entity. It is not a sectarian religious faith, although it is based on the highest principles of Hindu religion.”
Lecture on Bhagavad-gita As It Is 4.1
March 27, 1974
It is not OBJECTIONABLE philosophically to accept that we are typically classified thus. It’s label/category that people understand rather than our trying to convey - well we are actually in this obscure branch of Vaisnavism…..
Akhandadhi and co leveraged the “if you want to shut down Bhaktivedanta Manor, then you’ll have to deal with the UK’s entire Hindu population” tactic was helpful in the campaign to keep the Manor open.
Of course, many would observe that the Manor’s entire “personality” has changed from the nature it had in its first 10 years of operation or so to what it is now.
Beyond the philosophical pedantism, there may well be an identity issue….. “I don’t want to be seen as a Hindu”…..
And the legitimate concern that the concentrations of Indians attending temple possibly deters Westerners from engaging…..
These all need separating out. And people also need to reckon within themselves as to whether their discomfort with that highly generalise label has more to do with a low impression of “Hinduism” or not…..
Another worry could be that some temples might be introducing non Gaudiya forms of worship that Prabhupada wouldn’t approve of.
(NB. I asked Chat GPT to source those quotes so I will quickly check their veracity)
H Das: "According to Vedic civilization, cow is to be given all protection. The Hindus or followers of the Vedic religion, why they are interested to give protection to the cows, not to the..., not so much to the other animals?" [Sunday Feast Lecture -- Atlanta, March 2, 1975]
"Prabhupāda: So far Hindu religion is concerned, it is a very broad thinking. The Hindu religion, Vedic religion, is divided into two kinds of philosophers. One kinds of philosopher is the impersonalist. They take the Absolute Truth as impersonal, all-pervading impersonal. And the another philosophers, they take that the Supreme Absolute Truth is person. The impersonal feature is one of the features of that person, but ultimately he is person. So without person there cannot be any question of love." [Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle]
I dont know we are making a big deal about the word Hindu. We need to understand that the vedic religion is today known as Hinduism. Within Hinduism there are vaisnavas, sakta's, mayavadis etc. Sanatana Dharma and Hinduism are interchangeable today. The other Vaishnava sampradaya’s have no issues using the word Hindu, then why do we have issues. If one does not like it then dont use it, but let's not create unnecessary discussion on this. Tbh we are not these bodies, but yet we associate ourselves as male, female, American Indian etc. Spiritually we are spirit soul, but yet we associate ourselves with something.
========
HELP NEEDED
This family is facing a tough time after Mahadevs little daughter (almost 2 years old ) was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes just last Monday, May 4, a few weeks before her 2nd birthday.
They’re working hard to manage her health and upcoming needs, but the financial strain from missed work and medical costs is significant.
This fundraiser is just getting started, and sharing helps so much in the early days. Even if you can’t donate, a quick share can help it reach people who may be able to support.
Please consider sharing or donating if you can—every bit of support makes a difference for Maha’s family during this challenging time.
========
MY GLORIOUS VICTORY PARADE
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