https://twitter.com/VCMVrindavan/status/1671487889010573319?s=20
=================
NT: Cannot understand why people are still serving Jayapataka when it is self evident he is suffering from severe offenses. Interesting he is so attached to his current suffering sinful body, he cannot leave it behind. His whole program is so gross on so many levels. Giant fat hog eats too many cakes. I know lots of people who were treated badly in Mayapur, and he will have to pay for all of his victim's abuse.
GB: I have an honest sincere question. I don't want a philosophical discussion, just a simple answer. If one chants their sixteen rounds daily without fail, live the four regulative principles, offer prashadam, reads Srila Prabhupada's books and lectures, associate with senior and junior devotees and attend Sanga to group study KC principles, does it matter who initiated you? Am I headed for a hellesh planet because a ISKM devotee initiated me as a follower and devotee to Srila Prabhupada?
I keep seeing these discussions about living and dead gurus and I really don't understand. I left ISKCON because because I couldn't accept some things that I felt in my heart were / are wrong. Now I'm wrong for accepting initiation from the wrong guru.
PT: If you have accepted initiation from someone on Srila Prabhupada’s behalf, meaning Srila Prabhupada is your guru, you are perfectly situated. Prabhupada is an empowered incarnation, a self-realized guru. Only he can take you back home, back to godhead! If you have accepted an ordinary being as your guru, even if thousands of others accept him as something else, you can still refuse and come to Prabhupada.
I forgot to say ... if your guru is not self realized, he will take the karma of all his disciples and suffer the consequences of their karma. So, once a disciple departs this physical world, he will join his pseudo guru wherever [hellish] place he may be. If he’s suffering in hell, the disciple will join him. So, accepting a guru is a very serious business.
SA: How the F*** do you know his guru is not self realised. Are you omnicient?
BB: ISKCON gurus are falling down all the time. And the other gurus are covering up for their friends, even child molesters. Any ordinary person knows they are bogus, no omniscient knowledge required. Why does a person need to be omniscient to know that child abusers are not God's successor?
PT: If you still accept this fallen soul as your guru, unfortunately, yes! That’s from what I understood from my readings (Srila Prabhupada’s original books). But you can always refuse the pseudo guru and accept Srila Prabhupada in order to be saved.
OD: Thank you! Yes! I have accepted Srila Prabhupada!
EA: A devotee of Kṛṣṇa, if need be, if he's unqualified guru ... Unqualified guru means who does not know how to guide the disciple. Guru's duty is to guide. So such kind of guru can be at least rejected. That is Jīva Gosvāmī's... Kārya-kāryam ajānataḥ. A guru who does not know what to do and what not to do, but by mistake, by mistakenly I have accepted somebody as guru, he can be rejected. By rejecting him, you can accept an actual bona fide guru. So guru is not killed, but he can be rejected. That is the injunction of the śāstra.
(Lecture London August 5, 1973).
He's mahātmā. He's sādhu. We shall go to him. Why shall we go to a rascal? Simple directions. So if you are misled, if you are cheated, whose fault it is? But if you want to be cheated, who can check? Even though somebody by mistake has gone to a rascal, the book is there. As soon as you find out, "Here is a rascal who does not know anything about Kṛṣṇa, and I have come to him," reject him. That is stated in the śāstra. Gurur apy avaliptasya kāryākāryam ajānantaḥ parityāgo vidhīyate.(?)
Even by mistake you have come to a rascal who does not know how to become guru, you can reject him. Why should you stick to him? Reject him. And by mistake I have come to rascal. Why shall I continue to accept him as guru? Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, tyaja durjana-saṁsargaṁ bhaja sādhu-samāgamam: "Give up all rascals. Associate with sādhus." If you do not do that, that is your fault. Tyaja durjana-saṁsargaṁ bhaja sādhu-samāgamam. We have to mix with sādhu. Sādhu means who are twenty-four-hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service.
(conversation January 31, 1977)
PT: Also, Prabhupada is not a dead guru because he’s no ordinary living being. He doesn’t die, just like Jesus Christ, he can accept disciples, guide, and deliver them, and so does Prabhupada. He can take one back to Krishna. So, why would one choose to accept a pseudo ‘living’ guru just because he’s physically present?
Some say is to develop a relationship. For me that’s all misguidance because we can develop a relationship with guru and Krishna by practicing KC, no question of physical presence or not.
BB: But Bhakti Vikas swami is always crying because people are not accepting his "living" homosexual and pedophile friends as their gurus. Apparently, shastra says, without worshiping the "living" pedophile a person cannot attain God. And we all know he covers up for child beating and child raping systems like Mayapur. These people are living in illusion.
EA: No living being ever dies, the soul is eternal therefore the guru is also eternal. The acharya is an uttama adhikari, eternally liberated soul, he never falls down, is never under influence of the 3 modes of material nature. There is no question of him dying.
P Das: Perhaps these two statements by Srila Prabhupada will answer your question!?
"Unless one is initiated by a bona fide spiritual master, ALL his devotional activities are useless! A person who is not properly initiated can descend again into the animal species." [SP, Madhya Lila 15:108]
"Therefore, having a bonafide spiritual master and serving him, and pleasing him, and getting his mercy is essential. Otherwise there can be NO advancement in Krsna consciousness. And unless the spiritual master is a pure devotee of Krsna, then he has no potency to give Krsna. He is simply a cheating rascal!
So, in fact, above all the rules and regulations and offenses I have mentioned, the most important thing, the essential thing, which is required, if you want to come to the stage of purely chanting the Hare Krsna mantra, is, you MUST have a bonafide spiritual master, who is a pure devotee of Krsna.
Without having a bonafide spiritual master you can chant Hare Krsna forever, but will not be able to advance, because Krsna does not reveal Himself in this way. He ONLY reveals Himself to those devotees who surrender to, and serve, and please His pure devotee!" [letter to his London disciples, July 1969]
RVD: - People from the various camps have been citing references to invalidate Srila Prabhupada completely on the basis that he has entered samadhi & his ritvik initiation system has now become obsolete. It’s labeled as ‘a rubbish philosophy’ followed by some fools - it’s very offensive from their part, knowing that some of our prominent acaryas adopted the very same system of initiation from their predecessor - Srila Bhaktisidhanta Saraswati Prabhupada took sanyasa initiation from a photo (ritvik) of his Guru Maharaj as the latter had already left the world.
Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti approached the last arcarya sampradaya link during his time & took initiation from Narottama Das Thakur who had passed away 125 years earlier. The Chaitanya Charitamrta also has the example Ramanujaacarya taking initiation from Yamunaacarya after the latter demise.
BB: Yes, the Madhvacaryas also have non-liberated people doing the temple initiations on behalf of the acharya.
EA: If you are reading Srila Prabhupadas books, lectures and following the instructions theirin. That means that you have accepted him in your hearth as guru, and therefore are initiated by him. That is real initiation accepting the guru in ones hearth as the one that will guide us back home and following his instructions. The disciple accepts the guru, and the guru gives knowledge by which the disciple can attain liberation.
All other things, such as fire sacrifice by priest, are just formalities and actually not even needed. You stated that you was initiated by ISKM (International Sri Krishna Mandir?)
If they initiated you as disiciple of Srila Prabhupada then your fine. If they initiated you as disicple of the one doing the fire sacrifice or someone else other than Srila Prabhupada , then that is cheating. You should ask them.
If you was initiated as Srila Prabhupada disciple by ISKM, just continue with faith , determination, patience and conviction, and Srila Prabhupada will take you back to Krishna, guaranteed.
If not just follow Srila Prabhupada as his disciple same effect will be there , guaranteed.
GA Dasi: Prabhuji, find bona fide guru. In India there are couple Uttama uttama adhikaris, yet not initiating, yet maybe in the future. Real uttama adhikari guru is very rare, but if you are truly sincere Krishna will guide you to Him… Never lose trust or faith…. However, if you get initiation from bogus guru- he will go to hell and you will have to go to hell with him because he did mislead you. VERY DANGEROUS. Hope it helps.
VD: ISKM devotees are pukka. Another branch of Caitanya Mahaprabhu via Srila Prabhupada.
EA: Is the initiated a disicple of Srila Prabhupada, the ritvik priest or some other guru of ISKM?
VD: Not your disciple for sure.
EA: Is that how you answer a serious question? I have no disciples nor do I aspire to ever have any disicples.
P Dasa: Let Srila Prabhupada answer your question!
"Unless one is initiated by a bona fide spiritual master, ALL his devotional activities are useless! A person who is not properly initiated can descend again into the animal species." [SP, Madhya Lila 15:108]
"Therefore, having a bonafide spiritual master and serving him, and pleasing him, and getting his mercy is essential. Otherwise there can be NO advancement in Krsna consciousness. And unless the spiritual master is a pure devotee of Krsna, then he has no potency to give Krsna. He is simply a cheating rascal!
So, in fact, above all the rules and regulations and offenses I have mentioned, the most important thing, the essential thing, which is required, if you want to come to the stage of purely chanting the Hare Krsna mantra, is, you MUST have a bonafide spiritual master, who is a pure devotee of Krsna. Without having a bonafide spiritual master you can chant Hare Krsna forever, but will not be able to advance, because Krsna does not reveal Himself in this way. He ONLY reveals Himself to those devotees who surrender to, and serve, and please His pure devotee!" [letter to his London disciples, July 1969]
AD: Spiritual Master is Eternal. There is no question of Living or not living. - Srila Prabhupada.
GK Dasa: 4.34 It's about a person physically present. Render service unto him. Show me where Krsna, Mahaprabhu, Srila Prabhupada got initiated after his guru left the planet. Nowhere. The exceptions are not the rule where Sannyas was taken afterwards. Ritvik has no basis the way modern deviants want to do it.
Sridhara Srinivasa Das: Why don't you suggest this to the Sri Vaishnava sampradaya too? Their acharya Sripada Ramanujacarya's vapuh is still maintained in Sri Rangam. Can anyone go to that shrine and take diksha from Sripada Ramanujacarya? I mean if one can communicate with Srila Prabhupada through his picture one should be able to talk Sripada Ramanujacarya in that shrine where his physical vapuh is still maintained?
PADA: Yes, well Sridhara Srinivasa dasa follows Bhakti Vikas swami, who has ISKCON placing photos of his homo / pedo / Andy Warhol disciples friends on Krishna's altars, calling them Vishnupada etc. BVKS wants to see the photos of his favorite pedo pals on Krishna's altars.
And the result has been, mass child molesting has taken place. Why does anyone want to see children worshiping deviants as their gurus? And now BVKS programs has buried a known pedophile in a samadhi, so children can worship dead pedophiles, as well as living ones. Yes, it is better to worship the guru Srila Prabhupada than to worship the BVKS illicit sex with men, women and children guru parampara. Sridhara Srinivasa says he can defeat the ritviks, because his program worships Andy Warhol's disciples as Krishna's acharyas?
Akruranath Das: He can order his disciple to become guru, but he never indicated he would accept new disciples after his departure. Srila Prabhupada repeatedly said he was not concocting anything new, but was teaching exactly what he had received in discipline succession.
I understand the impulse to concoct a "Prabhupada was the one guru for the rest of kali yuga" theory, after many of his initial successors fell down, but we can be sure he did not change the regular parampara system received from guru, sastra and Sadhu.
PADA: Not even ordinary mundane people worship deviants as their gurus.
SI: Maybe learn Guru tattva before posting.
JS: If you need a living guru Then you need a living God, also, Why do we pray if the God is dead, can he hear our prayer, ,
VD: Those who use the terms living, post mortem, post samadhi or posthumous are walking deads carrying the baggage of their offense on their way to hell.
JS: If you need a living guru then you need a living God also, How can a living guru take you to a dead God?
N Das: Elevated vaisnavas may use such words "Living" or "physical" SP also used this word so that a conditioned soul with 4 defects may understand easier. All the acaryas are present-"living "(,books etc> Non Different from Krsna )but are not fully Manifest to a conditioned soul with 4 defects as Krsna or acarya only reveal themselves according to one's surrender. After Acarya "Disapearance," he manifests again to teach in the form of a Sadhu, Sastra or dreams (SP was instructed to take sanyasa).Why Krsna set up the system like this is inconceivable to our material mind + senses.
MB: These arguments are the same decade after decade.
BH: Goood point.
BB: And the living illicit sex gurus parampara are losing the argument.
JD: Can he after that he passed away give order to become guru, but not give diksa initiation? If yes, how is it possible for one but not for the other that the living guru theory is applicable?
PADA: Yep, none of these people understood that we conditioned souls cannot take karma from other conditioned souls. Even Gaura Govinda Maharaja was saying these neophytes like JPS can take sins as diksha gurus, and in that way he helped lead the blind into a ditch. Never mind the followers also are going into the same ditch because their sins are not resolved by tacking them to another neophyte. Jayadvaita swami said he could not take any more karma and he was deputing Kadamba Kanana to take sins, and then they were praying for Kadamba when he got sick "from taking karma." ys pd
A: Srila Narayana Maharaj: Never. The bona fide guru is qualified. He is like fire. He will burn everything away. Why will he take it himself? He will not take the fruits from the disciple's karma. Never will he take them. He will at once, by his mercy, quickly burn all. Not, there is nothing to be confused about. But, if the guru is not qualified, if he is not tattva-jnani, or if he is a kanistha-adhikari, then he will take all the sins. A madhyama-adhikari who is at the level of madhyama-uttama, oh, he will burn everything.
[PD: And Srila Prabhupada says a Madhyama cannot be a diksha guru because he might once again become a demon. He cannot absorb the sins of others. And furthermore, anyone who is not an uttama does not have the brahmana tejyas to burn off sins, Srila Prabhupada is very clear on this. No, a kanistha or madhyama is not like fire, he cannot burn off the sins of -- his own -- never mind burn off the sins of others. That is why Nectar of Instruction says, one must only accept an uttama as his guru. There is no sin burning fire in any other category. Q: Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada says the guru takes the disciple's sins, papa.
Almost all the neophyte GBC people who took sins under Narayan Maharaja's idea and policy suffered by falling down, getting sick, and dying. Never mind their followers are not being liberated.
Srila Prabhupada told us many, many times, if we allow people to touch our feet we will be acting like diksha gurus, taking sins. That will make us get sick, fall down or both. Of course many of them died. He said, only a pure devotee has the brahmana tejyas to burn off sins, and if you neophytes take sins "you will have to suffer" and they are suffering. So yes, this question was answered many times, none of you neophytes should attempt to take other's sins, but they neglected that instruction.
That is ALSO why Srila Prabhupada told the story of the snake and the ants. The false guru told the disciples he could take their sins, but he could not. So the disciples went to Yamaraja and they were very angry, and they wanted to take revenge. So Yamaraja made them ants, and made their guru a snake, and the snake went over the ant hill, and he was eaten alive by the ants. In other words, it does not matter if this karma is not resolved now, it will be eventually.
And! When we were in India, Srila Prabhupada stopped the whole kirtan when he saw two of his lady disciples having their feet touched by the old ladies at the pandal program. He told them, "I told you -- do not let people touch your feet, you will be taking their karma and you will have to suffer." None of you neophytes should attempt to take others sins, but they neglected that instruction. No idea why the ladies "gurus" would be able to be diksha gurus and take karma -- when the men who do so are suffering many reactions. ys pd
JS: Living bogus guru is in demand in iskcon. Cheaters want cheating guru, so Krsna is sending. Go take living guru and let him fleece you for money, rape you, destroy you and probably kill you. And go to the same planets they go to. Srila Prabhupada says false acharyas go to the most hellish regions. They also create hell for the Vaishnavas while they are living, especially the children. They are not Vaishnavas, but sinners posing as Vaishnavas.
No comments:
Post a Comment
Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.