Flat Earth Joins Changed Books / Who is useless (Upendranath) 05 12 24

MUKUNDA UK: FANATICAL FLAT EARTHER [Mathura Pati] SAYS HE WANTS KRISHNA TO KILL HIM IN A CAR CRASH IF THE EARTH IS NOT FLAT. So basically everything I quote from Prabhupada is correct you cannot refute it! But you will stick to your flat earth nonsense until Krishna kills you in a car crash!!! This is blind fanatical FOOL. CRAZY FANATIC NOT INTELLIGENT FOLLOWER OF PRABHUPADA.

PADA: The whole issue with Purujit started a few years ago. He insisted that he was going to edit the 1972 Gita himself, and make his own version. Which he has subsequently done. Then his followers went on a rampage attacking PADA for our saying the 1972 edition is authorized. In fact, most of us old timers became devotees by reading the original early 1970s Gitas. I was reading the Blue Cover condensed version before the full edition was ever even published.   

Then Mathura Pati blocks the Srila Prabhupada's quotes we provided, showing that Srila Prabhupada was already not happy with the 1976 edits, and he wanted to go back to the originals. In other words, Mathura Pati does not even know what an original book is in the first place. 

Then Mathura Pati said that Srila Prabhupada statements about the earth being a globe are -- incorrectly translated by Srila Prabhupada (as he told Rosalba). Srila Prabhupada also authorized a round globe in the paintings in his books, which he supposedly did to -- appease the public and not make a controversy. 

Anyway, now Mathura Pati says, if the earth is not flat, then he should die in a car crash to prove the earth is a round globe. Is someone not taking their meds here? How will his car crash prove that the world is not the shape of a piece of cheese cake?

Meanwhile both Mukunda UK and Mathura Pati have been citing Radhanath's cheer leader Bhakta das as their shiksha authority. And none of the Prabhupadanugas are on board with that process. So I don't know exactly what is going on with these folks, but someone says -- there might be some serious intoxicants involved here. 

Meanwhile, when Tamal went to India to discuss the child abuse lawsuit, he was killed -- in a car crash -- after leaving the meeting. And Tamal's followers blamed me for his departure. PADA baited Tamal to go to India! It is all PADA's fault he is gone! 

At the time, Mukunda UK was crying his eyes out how the cruel PADA had taken away his hero Tamal. He was infuriated that we started the lawsuit which supposedly caused Tamal to be gone, and he said PADA is a great offender for taking away their hero meister of the jagat Tamal. We really cannot make this stuff up? 

Everyone else was cheering me along saying this is great, this guy is gone, but Mukunda and his friends were crying like babies that their Judas saint was taken out -- and he was crying that PADA was all to blame, just like the GBC people. Really? Well I had no idea he was even there, or was going there, and had nothing to do with his situation there. 

In any case, there is no need for all these dramatics. If the earth is round, square, flat, triangle etc., your dying in a car crash won't prove a blessed thing. Other than, you are another nut job posing as a Hare Krishna. 

Anyway, we do have to make a stand on the book changes issue, that is not acceptable. And promoting Bhakta dasa and Saint Radhanath is getting TONS of complaints from the PADA-ites, they don't like that at all. 

In the end, more PADA readers are telling me, these people are all not fit to be called actual devotees, they are motivated fanatics who want to use Krishna to promote their personal agendas. But something is clearly wrong when they are saying -- my dying in a car crash will prove my idea. That sounds just a little bit psycho to the average person. 

What did Tamal's car crash prove? I forgot, it proves that PADA was the cause, when PADA was not even aware he was there! OK enough nuttiness for one day, hee hee.

ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com

Oh Lordy.

Someone hand me my percodans!

=====

Upendranath

Did Srila Prabhupada, or any of the Past Acaryas, use the Adjective “Useless”? & Are You Making Spiritual Advancement?

SRILA PRABHUPADA WROTE IN PURPORT TO BHAGAVAD-GITA 10.4-5:

“Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be presented as they are, for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straightforward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief, and if people are warned that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is the definition of truth.”

So, now keep in your mind, the above purport, by Srila Prabhupada. Especially: “Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others.”

Now I will “Present the FACTS, because Truthfulness Demands it”; as Srila Prabhupada wrote in the above Purport.

LECTURE, BHAGAVAD-GITA.1974, HAWAII:

“Unless one is firmly established in the mode of goodness, one’s spiritual life is simply a bluff one is firmly established in the mode of goodness, one’s spiritual life is simply a bluff. Because without coming to the platform of sativa-guna, (mode of goodness), nobody can advance in spiritual life. That is a fact. Just like nobody is allowed to enter the law college unless he is a graduate. This restriction is there. What he will understand, law? He must be a graduate.

So similarly, first of all, one has to come to the platform of sattva-guna. Then spiritual knowledge begins. Because spiritual knowledge is above sattva-guna. Above sattva-guna.

Therefore, sattva-guna is the best quality, when one brain is clear and he can see things as they are, no hazy understanding, but clear understanding. Therefore, sattva-guna is the qualification of brahmana.”

The words underlined, and used by Srila Prabhupada, I will show the definitions, just in case there is a reader who is not getting Srila Prabhupada’s “drift”, so to speak.

Ø Drift: “the general intention or meaning of an argument or someone's remarks.”

Ø Unless: “except on the condition that.”

Ø Firmly: “strongly and tightly:”

Ø Established: “having been in existence for a long time and therefore recognized and generally accepted”

Ø Simply: “n a straightforward or plain manner”

PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEXT ONE:

Ø Bluff: “an attempt to deceive someone into believing that one can or will do something”

Ø Nobody: “no person, no one”

Ø Advance: “move forward in a purposeful way; make or cause to make progress; a development or improvement”

Ø Fact: “something that has actual existence; a truth known by actual experience or observation”

Ø Begins: “start; perform or undergo the first part of (an action or activity)”

Ø Above: “in a higher place than”

I unconditionally state that the majority of Srila Prabhupada disciples, especially the disciples in the various levels of Leadership, have become, “USELESS”.

“Useless”, means: “Not fulfilling or not expected to achieve the intended purpose or desired outcome.”

These words are certainly “unpalatable” to many, however, to some they are not, because they know it is the “truth”.

Even more significant, this emotionally charged adjective is not the word concocted, or rationalized opinion, by Upendranath dasa. Upendranath Dasa, is simply repeating, the adjective used by Krishna dasa Kaviraja Gosvami, in his Sri Caitanya-caritamrita, where he references Srila Jiva Gosvami. Moreover, Srila Prabhupada has also used this emotionally charged adjective in his purports; where he also references Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, , and Srila Jiva Gosvami.

Both, leaders and rank-and-file devotees, disciples of Srila Prabhupada or disciples of his disciples, can be described with this adjective, “USELESS”, simply because of just ONE, (1), reason! Yes! Only one reason; and that is:

“They are not following the orders and instructions given by Srila Prabhupada.”

SRILA PRABHUPADA GAVE ORDERS & INSTRUCTIONS, AND ADVICE OF TWO TYPES.

1. Those applicable to all his disciples.

2. Those applicable to only the disciples who comprise the leadership, namely the GBC’s[1]-Ministers, Sannyasis[2], and Temple Presidents, and their Officers, like Temple Commanders, Secretaries, and Treasures.

Nevertheless, if the leaders of ISKCON, for some reason or another, have not followed his principal orders & instructions; this defiance will also filter on down to the rank-and-file devotees, causing negative personal consequences to them as well.

Upendranath dasa, posits that the failure to follow the following 2 instructions or orders, is the root cause of ISKCON’s ruination; simply, because the Leaders have become “USELESS”.

I will now describe what is considered as the two most important, and consequential issues, that led Srila Prabhupada’s institution into “ruination”; and caused the rank-and-file devotees to have the mental attitude of: “It Is What It Is”, (an expression used to characterize a frustrating or challenging situation that a person believes cannot be changed and must just be accepted).

These two instructions are,

1. Not following his orders and instructions, regarding the “Selecting of a Spiritual Master”, known as the “Guru-Issue”; when an Unauthorized and Concocted Guru selection System, that is not sanctioned or supported by Gaudiya-Vaisnavas Siddhanta, or the principle of “Guru, Shastra, Sadhu”, was established.

2. Not following the orders and instructions, on how ISKCON should be managed as directed in the “Direction of Management Letter” written in 1972 (the DOM); both while he was with us, and after his departure, (I will not elaborate on this because I know that it is not part of your life and not relevant at this time for you)

The following is just one of numerous such reference, that can be found in Srila Prabhupada Veda-Base, which constitutes a “USELESS” Disciple.

SRI CAITANYA-CARITAMRITA, ADI LILA, 12.10, SRILA KRISHNA-DASA KAVIRAJA GOSWAMI WROTE.

“The order of the spiritual master is the active principle in spiritual life. Anyone who disobeys the order of the spiritual master immediately becomes USELESS.”

PURPORT:

“Here is the opinion of Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami. Persons who strictly follow the orders of the spiritual master are useful in executing the will of the Supreme, whereas persons who deviate from the strict order of the spiritual master are USELESS.”

An unauthorized, guru system was adopted by the GBC, just months after Srila Prabhupada departed. and it still functions to this day. Keep in mind that it is not the lone opinion of this Upendranath Dasa that ISKCON has such an unauthorized guru system. It is originally the opinion of Srila Prabhupada, Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, and Srila Jiva Gosvami.

SRI CAITANYA-CARITAMRITA, ADI-LILA 1.31 PURPORT:

“It is imperative that a serious person accept a bona fide spiritual master in terms of the sastric injunctions.

Sri Jiva Gosvami advises that one not accept a spiritual master in terms of hereditary or customary social and ecclesiastical conventions.

One should simply try to find a genuinely qualified spiritual master for actual advancement in spiritual understanding.”

The phrase “It is imperative that a serious person”, and “sastric injunctions”, are very significant.

Imperative Means: “of vital importance; crucial; that something is of the utmost importance or necessity”.

Serious person Means: “People who are thoughtful and quiet, and do not laugh very often; are earnest, grave, sedate, sober, solemn, and sedate”.

IN REGARD TO “SASTRIC INJUNCTIONS”, PLEASE CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING:

SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM 4.27.25 PURPORT, SRILA PRABHUPADA WRITES:

“ … The sastric injunctions are confirmed by great sages like Narada Muni. As stated by Narottama dasa Thakura: sadhu-çastra-guru-vakya, cittete kariya aikya. One should follow the principles of saintly persons, scriptures and the spiritual master. In this way one is sure to attain success in life. …”

Srila Prabhupada wrote, “The sastric injunctions are confirmed by great sages like Narada Muni.”, He did not write, “The sastric injunctions are confirmed by conditioned devotees with a title of ‘GBC’”. It is what is called “A No Brainer”, that having the title of “GBC” does not put you on “par” with the status of a great sages like Narada Muni.

CAITANYA-CARITAMRTA ANTYA 3.221 SRILA PRABHUPADA WRITE IN PURPORT:

“ … the sastric injunctions, which are the true medium of evidence or proof …”

Srila Prabhupada, did not write, “ the GBC resolutions, which are the true medium of evidence or proof.”

IN TLC, CHAPTER 31, SRILA PRABHUPADA WRITES:

“ … All Sastric injunctions, as well as the versions of great sages and authorities, establish that a bona fide spiritual master is not necessarily a brahmana. The only qualification is that he be conversant with the science of Krishna, Krishna consciousness. That alone makes one perfectly eligible to become a spiritual master. This is the conclusion of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His discussions with Ramananda Raya. …”

SRILA PRABHUPADA, AGAIN CITING SRILA JIVA GOSVAMI, WRITES IN CAITANYA-CARITAMRITA, ADI.1.35. PURPORT:

“It is imperative that a serious person accept a bona fide spiritual master in terms of the sastric injunction.

Sri Jiva Gosvami advises that one not accept a spiritual master in terms of hereditary or customary social and ecclesiastical conventions.

One should simply try to find a genuinely qualified spiritual master for actual advancement in spiritual understanding.”

Srila Prabhupada and Sri Jiva Gosvami advises that one should find a spiritual master in terms of sastric injunctions, and not accept a spiritual master in terms of hereditary or customary social and ecclesiastical conventions.

However, and unfortunately, the GBC of ISKCON (Which does not exist any more; which is now the GBC of West Bengal India) has a system of “RUBBERSTAMPING” Gurus, who’s main qualification is that they are “Yes-Men”, and have a desire to what Srila Bhaktivinoda called Sutle-Sex-Life: “Profit”, “Adoration” & “Distinction”

Yet the ISKCON GBC has done exactly this; so, are they not guilty of not following the orders of one’s spiritual master? Of course, they are guilty of not following the orders of Srila Prabhupada and Srila Jiva Goswami. One could say that they are “guilty as sin”, i.e., “completely or very guilty.”

ISKCON’s Guru selection system violates the advice given by Srila Prabhupada and Sri Jiva Gosvami when they say that one should not accept a spiritual master in terms of hereditary or customary social and ecclesiastical conventions. ISKCON’s Guru selection system that is offered to its members is absolutely a “customary social, and ecclesiastical convention”; or in simpler terms, it is “Rubberstamping”, par- excellent.

LET US LOOK AT THE MEANING OF THE WORDS USED BY SRILA JIVA GOSWAMI:

Customary: According to or depending on custom; usual; habitual. Of or established by custom rather than law. Defined by long-continued practices.

Social: Relating to, devoted to, or characterized by friendly companionship or relations. Living or disposed to live in companionship with others or in a community, rather than in isolation.

Ecclesiastical: Of or relating to the church or the clergy; churchly; clerical; not secular.

Convention: A meeting or formal assembly, as of representatives or delegates, for discussion of and action on particular matters of common concern. A representative Party assembly to nominate candidates and adopt platforms and assembly protocols.

ISKCON’s guru system was established by custom and not by sastra. It certainly requires a society that is disposed to living in companionship with others or in a community, and is clerical, and not secular. This guru system was established with meetings, and formal assembly; with discussions regarding actions to be taken, that were of common interest and concern, to the power, and financial vested interests of GBCs, Gurus, Sannaysis, and Temple Presidents.

SRILA PRABHUPADA WROTE IN QUEST FOR ENLIGHTENMENT, 2F, THE MERCY OF LORD CAITANYA:

As Naratama Dasa Thakura says,

“Make the orders of the spiritual master your life and soul.”

And then,

“Do not think otherwise. Simply accept what he says.”

Of course,

“First of all, you must select who will be your spiritual master”.

You must know his qualifications. If you want to purchase gold, you must at least know where gold is available. If you are so foolish that you go to a butcher shop to buy diamonds or gold, then you'll be cheated.

Similarly, if out of ignorance, you approach the wrong person for spiritual guidance, you'll be cheated.

So, finding a bona fide guru requires intelligence and sincerity. If you are serious about understanding the goal of life, spiritual knowledge, then Krishna will help you. He is situated in everyone's heart, and he understands when you are sincerely seeking the Absolute Truth. Then He gives direction: “Go to this person.” Krishna is already giving direction in every respect. We want to do so many things, and Krishna is giving us the facility. As He says in the Bhagavad-gita 18.61,

“The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy.”

As the Supersoul in the heart, Krishna is giving facilities to all living entities in their wanderings throughout the various species. But when one becomes very eager to understand Krishna, or God, He is glad to give instruction:

“Go to such-and-such person and submissively inquire from him. You'll be enlightened.”

CAITANYA-CARITAMRTA-MADHYA-LILA 19.15,

“According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Krishna. By the mercy of both Krishna and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service.”

By the mercy of the spiritual master and Krishna one can make spiritual advancement. One must simply be sincere.

Krishna did not say that someone else will select for you by providing a list of GBC approved gurus, which Srila Prabhupada called “Rubber-Stamping”, and which he disapproved of. This has been confirmed by Srila Jiva Gosvami when he advises that one not accept a spiritual master in terms of hereditary or customary social and ecclesiastical conventions.

Srila Prabhupada also said, “You must know his qualifications”.

SRI CAITANYA-CARITAMRITA-MADHYA-LILA 19.151,

“By the mercy of the spiritual master and Krishna one can make spiritual advancement. One must simply be sincere.”

“Sincere” means, “Free from ‘pretense’, or ‘deceit’.”

“Pretense”, means, “An attempt to make something that is not the case appear true; a false display of feelings, attitudes, or intentions.”

“Deceit”, means,“The action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth.”

ISKCON leaders are not sincere, because they are not free from pretense or deceit. They make things that are not the case, appear to be true. They display false feelings, attitudes, and intention. They deceive their disciples and followers, by concealing and misrepresenting the “Truth” regarding the selection of a guru and what it means to be a disciple.

Gurus are approved by a system where by the guru candidate, personally petitions a selection committee, and includes a recommendation from an established guru. Then the want-to-be guru, must wait for a probationary period. If approved by the selection committee, they then recommend the candidate to the whole GBC. The GBC, who on the basis of the approval of the committee, does not deliberate, and simply, automatically, and unanimously, votes the candidate, as an authorized guru. This is “Rubber-Stamping” par excellent. Later, you will read, where Srila Prabhupada said “No Rubber-Stamping”. Simply speaking, the GBCs are selected in this manner. This is reminiscent of the “Politburo of the historical Communist Party of the Soviet Union”, or the Catholic Church system of Pope and Cardinals.

Yes, an aspiring disciple in ISKCON is allowed to make a personal choice of who they want their guru to be. However, they are not allowed to determine who is a qualified guru. They depend on the GBC to do this for them.

ISKCON basically, without saying it, proclaiming it, or advertising it, is saying:

“An aspiring disciple, who wants a guru, is not qualified to choose a guru on the basis of sastric, (scriptural), injunctions. Therefore, an aspiring disciple can choose a guru solely on the basis of “sentimental criteria”.

Or it can be characterized in this way.

“Oh! Prabhu! You do not have to worry about what is a bona-fide guru, or who can be guru. You do not need to be concerned about that, because we, the GBC, HAVE DECIDED FOR YOU. Furthermore, according to your sentimental, and non-verifiable criteria; you can choose from this list of approved gurus. You just have to choose the one that fancies your whatever sentimental reason, or reasons are.”

It has been shown, by Srila Prabhupada’s own words, that choosing a guru is absolutely and solely the responsibility of the individual. Srila Prabhupada even informs us of the advice of Sri Jiva Gosvami, who says that one should not accept a spiritual master in terms of hereditary, or customary social and ecclesiastical conventions.

It is amazing that Srila Prabhupada had warned us about the bogus system of selecting a guru, that ISKCON has adopted. You have to have a question on you mind at this point. Could it be,

“Why has the GBC of ISKCON disregarded and not follow these instructions from Srila Prabhupada and Srila Jiva Gosvami?”

This blatant disregard of Srila Prabhupada’s advice, instructions, and orders, what to speak of deliberate disregard of the advice of Srila Jiva Gosvami, is devastating. The only reason that a member in ISKCON will select a guru by this ecclesiastical convention, is that they do not read nor study, Srila Prabhupada’s books, and lectures, carefully. Moreover, the GBC obviously has some sinister Personal Ambition agenda. Otherwise, why they blatantly disregarded Srila Prabhupada’s and Srila Jiva Gosvami’s instructions?

The GBC, the temple presidents, sannyasis, and gurus who have been selected by ecclesiastical convention, and the ordinary members of ISKCON, who support these leaders, are all colluding in maintaining this practice. Knowing or un-knowing, this offence is known as the mad-elephant.

LET’S SEE WHAT ELSE SRILA PRABHUPADA HAD TO SAY ABOUT “RUBBER-STAMPING”.

ROOM CONVERSATION — APRIL 22, 1977, BOMBAY:

Prabhupada: “No, you become guru, but you must be qualified first of all. Then you become.”

Tamala Krishna: “Oh, that kind of complaint was there.”

Prabhupada: “Did you know that?”

Tamala Krishna: “Yeah, I heard that, yeah.”

Prabhupada: “What is the use of producing some rascal guru?”

Tamala Krishna: “Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and its clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru. Maybe one day it may be possible...”

[Comment: Note that Tamala Krishna said about 6 months prior to the disappearance of Srila Prabhupada that he and all the other disciples, are conditioned souls and cannot be guru. Nevertheless, he and 10 other unscrupulous persons commandeered Srila Prabhupada’s Krishna consciousness Movement. Moreover, very soon after his disappearance, in early 1978. these 11 swindlers declared themselves as fully qualified gurus and Uttama-adhikari. They instantly, in just 10 months went from “conditioned soul” to qualified “gurus”. Srila Prabhupada said,

“You become guru, but you must be qualified first of all. Then you become.”

These 11 charlatans must have inferred this to mean that a GBC resolution, of conditioned souls, can make them qualified gurus. There was a 12thCBC and sannaysi, a personal friend of mine, who personally informed me, that he was approached by two of these eleven, with the specific reason of having him join the hi-jacking of ISKCON. He refused, and said that he would not have anything to do with such a scheme. Asking them why they are doing this, one of them replied,

“It is because of the Money”, “Prabhu”!

[End of Comment]

Prabhupada: “Hm.”

Tamala Krishna: “...but not now.”

Prabhupada: “Yes. I shall choose some guru. I shall say, “Now you become acharya. You become authorized.” I am waiting for that. You become all acharya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete.

Tamala Krishna: “The process of purification must be there.”

Prabhupada: “Oh, yes, must be there. Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that. [Caitanya-caritamrita-Madhya-lila 7.128: ‘You become guru.’ (laughs) But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower...”

[Comment: Why would the disciples of Srila Prabhupada, attending this conversation, “LAUGH”? The reason they laughed is that all of Srila Prabhupada disciples, understood that they were not qualified to be Guru like Srila Prabhupada himself.]

Tamala Krishna: “Not Rubber Stamp.”

Prabhupada: “Then you'll not be effective. You can cheat, but it will not be effective.. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to become guru, and a small temple and “guru.” What kind of guru? No publication, no preaching, simply bring some foodstuff.”

In the early years after Srila Prabhupada’s departure, many disciples organized and protested what the GBC did. There were essays and papers written, and meetings that addressed this issue of an unauthorized Guru protocol. What was the result of many years of such protest, and argument, you may ask?

The answer is,.

“The leaders of this protesting movement, were by GBC vote; rubber-stamped gurus, as well. Hence, without leaders, this protesting movement, dissipated like a ‘fart’ in the wind.”