AJIT KRISHNA
PADA: OK so Ajit Krishna still says that he and Torben did the right thing banning me from the ISKCON History forum, because ritvik (worshiping Srila Prabhupada as the pure devotee) is bogus. He says we Prabhupada worshiping devotees need to be banned, kicked out, and there is nothing wrong doing that. Which is what Tamal said, and which is what Bhakti Vikas swami not only advocates -- BVKS supports suing the Prabhupada devotees to have them removed.
Evidently, Ajit implies at least -- we can worship more than one guru. OK implying that he has another guru. But worshiping another guru was never authorized by Srila Prabhupada, rather he said worshiping another guru is "spiritual prostitution and a personal insult to me." I heard him say that in person in India.
Ajit Krishna says that Srila Prabhupada's statements in this regard "make no logical sense." What? Srila Prabhupada was actually crying when he told us that, this is spiritual prostitution. Sorry this is very logical.
So it appears that Ajit Krishna is still with the Jayapataka GBC siddhanta camp, we can have another guru -- other than -- Srila Prabhupada. But he refuses to name that other guru, most likely, because if he does, we will identify that guru as deviated. Srila Prabhupada says not naming the guru is mayavada. And Ajit complained that makes no logical sense either. Srila Prabhupada makes no sense?
But Ajit and Jayapataka have the same exact idea, they both think the ritviks need to be kicked out, banned, removed -- which is what Jayapataka is doing to us as well. The Jayapataka goondas kicked us out, and so does Ajit.
Yeah lets kick out the bogus people who worship Srila Prabhupada, which is really just another GBC pt. II. He says my logic is faulty. Nope, kicking out the Srila Prabhupada devotees, the checks and balances Srila Prabhupada intended to act as a sort of second tier watchdog group, is how we got the changed books and changed everything else.
If Ajit wants to ban and kick out people for the crime of worshiping a pure devotee, he has never left the GBC camp. The only good news is that he has gone over to the mayavada "not naming the guru" camp, and I admit -- the mayavadas are better than the GBC. I give them some credit.
The ritviks are bogus because they are not mayavadas, not spiritual prostitutes, and can name their guru. And that is why they need to be banned. We cannot have people naming a pure devotee as their guru, lets us ban them! So that is no different than the GBC / BVKS banning policy, which means Ajit has not learned from his mistake of promoting these deviants and their corrupt policies in the first place.
But if we ban the whistle blowers on the changed books, the pedophile problem, the changed deity pooja, the bogus appointment and other problems, then those problems have no checks and balances, which is what happened in ISKCON. And that is why those problems rose to become prominent, and hi-jacked the entire agenda.
OK so we need to ban the whistle blowers on these problems, then we wonder why these problems become widespread? As the Berkeley police told me in 1986, the people who oppose you are feeding the criminal problems (like child abuse) by silencing the critics. Of course this is all a hysterical joke for Bhakti Vikas types, and Ajit is also showing me he thinks all this is a comedy show with a smiley face meme. He has never left the GBC.
Rather oddly, after kicking me off the ISKCON forum, Ajit now wants me to show the transcripts of our discussions there, which he erased from my view? So yeah, he is just another version of Bhakti Vikas swami, ban the Srila Prabhupada devotees, and then we have all sorts of problems when the check and balance is removed. I don't need to show where Ajit promoted Bhakti Vikas swami's "banning" policy in the past, because Ajit has the same policy now. There is no difference between Ajit's current policy and BVKS's -- that I can see at all.
A devotee recently said he can no longer afford health care because his premium went more than double, and he says -- removing health care will cause him and millions of others -- to suffer and -- die. OK so removing and banning the system that helps contain criminal things will make everything worse. And it has.
Same thing, removing us whistle blowers caused all these other problems, and made them exponentially worse. Then the "reformers" -- including Ajit Krishna dasa and BVKS -- make pretend they are trying to fix these problems -- which they helped create with their banning the whistle blowers program.
The other amazing thing is that when this all started, I asked them to identify and name their "other" guru, and they never have. They are just upset and angry when someone worships a pure devotee. And they are thus another version of GBC guru clones who want to suppress and remove us, so they are basically still BVKS parrots.
Anyway, this is good, Ajit says that the policy of forbidding the worship of pure devotees is correct, the worshipers of pure devotees need to be banned. And that is why ISKCON has become the mess it is. Another devotee says, they never name their "other" guru because they would rather have people worship no one and nothing than Srila Prabhupada. They are envious of his being worshiped. Yep, worship no one -- which is mayavada, and which Srila Prabhupada says is covert atheist.
Told ya!
ys pd angel108b@yaoho.com
LD: The ritviks? Are the SAME people who started the changed books argument in 1980s. And started KBI. And! Are only people ... on earth ... who even have original books! Need to get rid of them! And their books are gone too! That helps the book changers. They really do not want this problem solved. They want to get rid of the ritviks ... and that gets rid of original books. Method to the madness. Get rid of us? Eliminates the books. Jayadvaita's problem solved!
Not "naming their guru" ... because we will find out? Their guru's hands are dirty. And their hands are all already dirty for getting rid of us. They have no authority to ban the worship of pure devotees ... and worship some dubious clowns. Anyone who worships pure devotees has to be banned, Ajit is another BVKS. both posing as reformers.
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a) BCS states that initiation is being given on behalf of Srila Prabhupada:
“And I am giving you initiation on behalf of ISKCON, on behalf of Prabhupada. […] On behalf of Srila Prabhupada I give you your spiritual name, Parama Karuna Dasa, […] So, your name on behalf of Srila Prabhupada I am giving as Nama Chintamani dasi,"
b) No mention is made of making any vow to BCS, and BCS speaks of only making a commitment to Srila Prabhupada, but never to himself:
“And your commitment to Srila Prabhupada will be shown by how sincerely you are practising the process.”
c) The ceremony consisted of chanting of Brahma-samhita, lecture about initiation and surrender, acamana (preparation for fire sacrifice), fire sacrifice, explanation of and making vows for chanting 16 rounds, giving of spiritual names, and explanation of avoiding the ten offenses while chanting.
Ritvik initiation
The initiate would go through the same procedure above and become initiated by Srila Prabhupada. One can verify this by checking the Bhaktivedanta Vedabase – for example “Lecture and initiation, Seattle, 20th October, 1968”.
In most initiations, especially in later years, the ceremony was not conducted by Srila Prabhupada personally, but by a representative such as a temple president, just as BCS is doing here. In this latter case the spiritual name would be first received via a letter from Srila Prabhupada, or after July 9th, 1977, from one of the 11 appointed ritvik priests, who would accept the disciple and give the spiritual name on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, just as BCS has done here.
Role in life of initiate
BCS initiation
“You want to take initiation from me, but how often we will meet? I think I came to Germany after four years? The Prabhupada installation was? Five years, okay, yes, five years. So, if I come after five years, what will you do for those five years? The question naturally arises, then Maharaja, why are you giving initiation?
[…] I agreed with one confidence. That ISKCON is there to take care of you. […] And you stay fixed up in ISKCON. Because, you see, you will hardly have my association. What is going to happen to your spiritual life, if you are simply depending upon me?”
Ritvik initiation
As above, when one got initiated on behalf of Srila Prabhupada via his representative during Srila Prabhupada’s physical presence, the initiate may or may not see or take guidance from that representative, but rather would depend on the physical association of all the other devotees in ISKCON.
BCS initiation
“Actually what attracted you to spiritual life is Srila Prabhupada. The devotees you met, they are Prabhupada’s devotees, ISKCON devotees means Prabhupada’s devotees. The books that you read are Prabhupada’s books. You are being sheltered by Prabhupada’s arrangement, in the form of ISKCON.
[…] The point is: Always try to remember that Srila Prabhupada is your main spiritual shelter.”
[…] And read Prabhupada’s books every day. Why is reading Srila Prabhupada’s books so important? When you read Prabhupada’s books, Prabhupada is guiding you. And Prabhupada’s vani is manifest in his books. Did you ever try this? You have any difficulty, you are in a difficult situation and you just opened Prabhupada’s books to direct you as if Prabhupada is directing you, giving you the answer. Prabhupada is still here in the form of his vani. Prabhupada’s vani is manifest in the form of his books.”
Ritvik initiation
As above, those initiated by Srila Prabhupada during his physical presence, whether via a representative or not, would have had their main association with Srila Prabhupada via his books, since, most of his disciples never met him.
Relationship with initiate
BCS initiation
BCS states he is not acting as the diksa guru, who connects the disciple to Krishna, but is connecting the initiate to Srila Prabhupada.
“And then you decided to accept me as your Guru. Then what is my duty as your Guru? To connect you to Srila Prabhupada. […] And Guru’s business is meant to be your transparent via-medium. And generally the Guru acts as a transparent via-medium between the disciple and Krishna. But here I am acting as a transparent via-medium between you all and Srila Prabhupada.”
Ritvik initiation
When one got initiated by Srila Prabhupada during his physical presence via his representative, this representative was not the diksa guru, since he did not connect one to Krishna. Rather, the representative merely helped the initiate to connect formally to Srila Prabhupada via the medium of the formal initiation ceremony. And as noted, this is how BCS has defined his relationship with the initiate (even though he has used the word “guru” for this.)
Conclusion
If BCS had agreed to obey Srila Prabhupada’s orders, and become authorised by the GBC to become his ritvik representative, and carry out initiations according to the procedure given in Srila Prabhupada’s July 9th 1977 directive, he could have carried out the ceremony as he did here. Conversely, someone wishing to become initiated by Srila Prabhupada could have participated in this ceremony, and think he was initiated as Srila Prabhupada’s disciple!
Hence, due to the efforts of the IRM, with the battle having been won philosophically, the ISKCON gurus are being forced to effectively concede defeat by reinventing themselves as glorified ritviks. However, they continue cheating by ensuring the benefits of being treated as diksa gurus stay intact.
This is all part and parcel of the evolution of ‘The Great Guru Hoax’, from Part 1 - labelled as acaryas – to Part 2 - labelled as “humbler” diksa gurus - to Part 3 – even acting and being labelled as ritviks. In this way the guru hoax has continued to mutate and survive, with each new version merely offering a different vehicle by which to achieve the same goal of controlling men, money and properties, with such control either remaining intact or merely changing hands.
D Dasi: Absolutely… They just want all the worship and all the recognition and all the money and attention but basically telling them they're not taking the responsibility of the disciples karma because they hand them over to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada acting like it's on his behalf. So they want all the rewards and fruit of results and they want His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada to take all the karma. They are just crooked businessmen disguising themselves as genuine followers.
Good luck on that one! No matter how much trickery or word jugglery they give… It doesn't change what they are actually doing. I guess they don't understand that Krishna is in everybody's heart and knows exactly what's going on.
CMD: Sounds like ritvik by stealth.
PADA: Yeah Trivrikrama was yelling in 1990 that the GBC policy of restricting acharyas is the same as the ritvik idea and is thus "another name for ritvik." ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com
MMD: Ajit and Torben? Former Harikesha? Harikesha always said the same thing as Ajit Krsnadasa. Yes. You can have Prabhupada as your guru. As long as you also have another person as your guru. Like Harikesha ... and the other goat gurus!
ReplyDeleteBut!! If you find someone who only has Prabhupada as their guru, we kick boots in his face. Remove him. Harikesha did that, removed almost all of the Prahbupada disciples.
Harikesha says we need to add a person like a GBC or other fool to our Prabhupada worship. Or ELSE! We are out. Ajit is still their disciple.
Is strange, we need original books, so we kick out the people making original books. Ajit ... does not really want original books, he is just a self promoter of himself. Another BVKS.
They don't want Prabhupada to be the guru ... because ... they are going to lose their self promoting of themselves. And we also never get original books.
Torben guy ??? is the worst. I saw that, when the topic is child abuse he makes smiley jokes. What a turd ball. This is what happens when a person is Harikesha-ized. They never cured themselves.
PADA to M Dasi: Yes. Ajit Krshnadasa has the GBC play book. First there is the banning policy, then next -- almost always -- comes the unintended consequences -- the beatings, molesting, lawsuits and murders. But it always starts with their banning policy -- of anyone who worships pure devotees. You must comply! Or else.
ReplyDeleteSure, he evidently has another guru other than Prabhupada, and that guru wants to see the Vaishnavas banned from Srila Prabhupada's temples, so we can worship that guru instead.
Worse, he wants to have the people who make original books banned. But he is doing what BVKS is doing, ban anyone who worships a pure devotee, so what can you expect from these folks?
I asked his friend Torben who is their guru and he said he could not say because we would make offenses to their guru, that means their guru has dirty hands. ys pd