TYING UP GOD IS NOT ALWAYS AN EASY TASK!
EVEN MOTHER YASODA WAS GETTING EXHAUSTED.
INCREDIBLE MERCY WE KNOW ANY OF THESE THINGS!
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R DASI [Truths are manifesting]:
It feels like so many truths are coming out on so many levels the last few weeks. Like there’s some sort of frequency shift or something. Lies that have been upheld for years and years, crashing down. Secrets no longer secret. Justice finally being served. And rising from the ashes of all of this healing destruction, there is this magical sense of hope and excitement for a promising future. I’m here for it.
PADA: Well yup. Many people have told PADA that we are beating an old dead GBC horse. The GBC guru process is -- on the skids, has one foot in the grave -- the other foot in a bear trap, and is a bunch of old farts of dying corpses etc. -- and all the rest of these suggestions coming in. I get it.
But I think R dasi is right, the old GBC guard is crashing, and yet there is hope for the future, and I'm here for it along with her. I think that the MAGA Oligarchs, Russia Oligarchs, and well as the old guard in Europe, and many other big and small programs are crashing too, along with the GBC guru oligarchs. Change is in the air and we need to take advantage of this place in time, it may not come again for awhile. I see lots of good changes happening all the time, and our process gaining gradually.
A devotee told me after his three gurus blooped, the GBC told him it is the job of him, the disciple, to save his fallen gurus. "You have to perform sadhana and that will save your fallen gurus." Wow, the disciples have to save their GBC gurus, the gurus cannot even save themselves never mind others.
He now believes the GBC system is cheating and does not promote bona fide gurus. He thinks Srila Prabhupada should have been his guru the whole time. But in Towaco and other temples there where he is, it is almost 99% Hindus who do not know or care what guru is worshiped there.
He said -- ISKCON is sort of crashing on the beach and morphing into a Hindu temple program exclusively. Westerners are never going to come to a program where the disciples have to save their fallen gurus. Your guru is chasing women and intoxication, and your job is to perform sadhana to save him. Wait, the guru saves the sadhaka?
The MAGA movement is crashing sort of for the same reasons. Their leaders are old and out of touch. Most MAGA guys are the retiring old timers, the baby boomers, who all voted for Ronald Reagan so they could have reduced "de-regulated" trade restrictions on China. Then China could transfer most, in some cases all of various sectors, of the USA manufacturing jobs and wealth over there.
That would "off shore" our jobs, actually millions of jobs, and trillions of dollars of manufactuting income gone -- off shore -- over there. Their plan was called the "de-industrializing of the USA." Works great, for the communists in China, made them very wealthy and USA very poor and in debt.
Now we have little manufacturing jobs left over here, and trillions in debt, all so the baby boomers could buy cheap shoes in Walmart. They were madly chasing after cheap-oh China made products, and had no concern that they were losing millions of jobs and trillions of dollars here. Well now that is all catching up to them. And the false gurus are catching up to ISKCON.
So what did the MAGA folks do to fix this? Elect a guy who will send all their farm workers, food production workers, construction job workers, food service workers, truck drivers, nurses etc, to -- Mexico, and bankrupt all sorts of small businesses especially farmers. So they just made things WAY worse for themselves. Now the farmers who voted for all this are crying about going bankrupted on TIK TOK. Well duh, you created all this mess because you voted for it! Just like the GBC votes for their bogus ideas.
ISKCON has done the same. They created all sorts of problems, and then made a moratorium on gurus, and that made their problems worse. The good news is, in both cases, the young people are getting tired of all this and they want these old timers to get out of office! Just retire already, before you blow up the whole planet!
ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com
PADA: This guy has to retire as well. Ukraine started with taking out 1,000 Russians a month, then to 2,000, 3,000 and on and on, and recently they have scaled up to 70,000 a month and they want to make it 30,000 a week, and they are gaining to that level.
And they are making longer range weapons that can reach Siberia. Hard to imagine these noisy lawn mower motor drones are flying all over Russia and they cannot do anything. Oh look it is a cardboard and duct tape plane with a lawn mower motor, what can we do?
I have seen videos of Russians throwing shoes at them. Oh great, Russia also shot down two of their own KA helicopters with their own air defense. They could not figure out if their own helicopter was not a cardboard and lawn mower motor plane?
Yeah! That means, 70,000 fewer sniper guys shooting at old women collecting bread at the donation center. That is going to save lives! But he is another old fart out of touch guy who is doing more harm to Russia than anyone else. He is destroying himself and Russia, and causing havoc on the rest of the planet. He has to be part of the world of changes to stop all these old farts and get younger and more intelligent people in charge. He needs to join the GBC and retire on moratorium. Heh heh! ys pd
If you want others to die, you might die yourself.
It is called karma.
========SATSVARUPA WRITES WRONGS:
THIS HAS BEEN EDITED PLEASE READ MORE ON WHAT I JUST FOUND.
Satsvarupa's mad art work:
Srila Prabhupada: "This is not a good style of painting. It is an artistic style for sense gratification only. I cannot encourage this style it should be stopped immediately. Paintings should be like the Deities, formal and worshipful. This type of painting is sentimental and not authorised. Paintings should be as our artists in New York are doing. Do not introduce any new styles." (Srila Prabhupada letter to Madhudvisa, 8 December 1973)
Satsvarupa's suppression of truths.
HERE IS THE EDIT I JUST ADDED BELOW
SDG Writings Excerpts: Here is Srila Prabhupada 1991
"So here I am, beginning another book about Prabhupada with a feeling of regret. Prabhupada should be the center of my life, but I continue to take his place…"
August 16, 1991 Page 2, Week One from here is Srila Prabhupada
"A few years ago I asked Narayana Maharaja what he thought … Narayana maharaja encouraged me…" August 7, 1991
…" There is a danger of creating an illusory Prabhupada. It is all too easy to worship malleable Prabhupada, one who changes his orders to suit our own needs and deviations?…" August 7, 1991
"Occasionally I look at a random paragraph about Prabhupada in one of my own published books. Sometimes it looks wrong. Not quite wrong, but too colored for my own view of Prabhupada. I always regret seeing those things in print…" August 8, 1991
"Earlier in the dream, I was talking either with Srila Prabhupada or with devotees … I think my envy was manifesting in the dream when I was glad to see that the person being massaged was no longer Prabhupada…." Page 22, August 9, 1991
"… What if the disciple is not completely spiritual? Or the guru for that matter?…"
"… We read Krsna Book while the fire burned down in the fireplace. I confessed I battle constantly with doubts that Krsna-lila is mythological…" August 10, 1991
"…Thousands of devotees who never had much personal exchange with Prabhupada felt relief, when after his disappearance, there were no more secretaries to keep them out of his rooms or presence…."
"My relationship with Srila Prabhupada is lifelong and solid, yet I still struggle with it, just as I struggle with my doubts about the Krsna Book stories. Although I am convinced that I love Prabhupada, I still confuse him with the "authority figure" who forced me into the US navy and who thought that writing poetry was for sissies. …
"… I am more afraid of my own possible deviations-seeing him as an ordinary man, minimizing him in some abstract way, not reading his books, leaving his movement - than I am of Prabhupada…" page 76
" Sometimes I imagine Prabhupada has come back for only one day and he has agreed to see me. Imagine inviting him to a secluded place in Ireland…" page 108
"Now Prabhupada is arriving, he pulls up in a big comfortable BMW…As I offer the arati articles, I feel rushes of emotion. Srila Prabhupada doesn’t have to read my mind; just by standing before him my activities since his disappearance – my attempt to become a guru and some of the excesses of that, my reading in Christian saints, my publishing my own books, my seeking lonely places, my hurts. He also sees my desire to serve him…" page 111
"… He cites prema-dhvani prayers and mangala-carana prayers " My dear boys and girls…He says that these young Irish devotees are also his disciples as long as they follow …He refers to corruption that has occurred in ISKCON since his disappearance. The references are indirect but we feel the weight of them…" page 112
" Should I ask him something as I used to? Is this the time to do it? Or should I wait? Remember Srila Prabhupada probably knows all about ISKCON. He didn’t come today to learn basic news but more to hear how you Satsvarupa das Goswami. … Page 116
"…Why do I aspire something more when I can’t even practice the preliminary stages? Can I ask questions of Narayana Maharaja when you’re not here? What do you want me to do?.." page 117
"After your disappearance I went along with the guru worship which our society now deems as a period of abuse to devotees and minimizing the central position of your Divine Grace. It would have taken great conviction of purpose to keep a humble course in defiance in those years, and I didn’t have such strong conviction to stand alone…" August 14, 1991 page 118
"… I stopped yesterday’s meditations when I got to the point of asking Srila Prabhupada questions. Again I don’t think I can fill in Prabhupada words in this imaginary dialogue" page 120
"…All things considered I want to please him and serve his purposes. I’m doing it to some degree behaving according to sannyasa dharma, writing books for those I initiate in his name…but I know I could do a lot better…" page 122
"…Even when he is here my rounds are not attentive. If he could teach us, by magic or blessing how to read his books once and for all… Should I ask about svarupa-siddhi and rasa? No, it’s premature. The origin of the living entity? He already told us…. he can see in my face that I didn’t turn out to be lie a pure devotee. . Page 126
"… While he speaks and drifts off, we are there with him. Now I am satisfied. Whatever problems I haven’t yet resolved in terms of how to get rid of anarthas and excess baggage and the vain glory of thinking myself special devotee – I know it will all work out in my remaining days…" page 130
" Tonight we read of Abhay’s initiation. I defend the Lilamrta’s presentation which only hints at the fact that Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura recognized Srila Prabhupa as an eternal great pure devotee even in the early years of Abhay’s household life…" page 134
"If the world leaders are not praising Srila Prabhupada and the authorized parampara, the "stand-ins" like me will have to do unto the world discovers that this the real responsibility of writers and readers." Page 139
"...Srila Prabhupada –you have to read his books to know him. Otherwise it is a bluff." I love Prabhupada and I talk about him". Moment to moment, his association is available. Why don’t you take it? What are the objections?
"He’s too repetitious."
"It’s too philosophical."
"My mind is too scattered."
"I’m not serious enough, what can I do?" Page 144
"…Shortly before the disappearance of his guru, Abhay wrote him a letter…" page 164
"… Gaudiya matha sannyasis moving into rooms rented from Abhay…"p 165
"Similarly if I want to compose Here is Srila Prabhupada, the I must keep my home base in ISKCON at Prabhupada’s lotus feet. "Don’t leave," Prabhupada requested. Stay in the fellowship of devotees." Page 171
"…One barrier is the resistance I have built up against reading his books. It’s just a bad habit…" page 176
"… Even as a businessman Abhay was spirited…"
"… Abhay went to their offices…"
"… When Abhay tried to start his own factory…"
"… It’s pleasing to see Srila Prabhupada in public like this, retaining his devotional composure …" page 183
"… Srila Prabhupada’s movement is one of self-sacrifice and the following of authority-
the previous acaryas, the sastra, and the present leaders…"???? Page 185
"… Even as a businessman Abhay was spirited…"
"… Abhay went to their offices…"
"… When Abhay tried to start his own factory…"
"… It’s pleasing to see Srila Prabhupada in public like this, retaining his devotional composure …" page 183
"… Srila Prabhupada’s movement is one of self-sacrifice and the following of authority-
the previous acaryas, the sastra, and the present leaders…"???? Page 185
"…In his letter to Gandhi, Abhay called himself, "Your unknown friend..." Page 191
"…He wrote to all the leading politicians and to anyone who would listen. In one sense, the letters had little effect. But one effect it did have it did was to enable Prabhupada to focus all his energies as a preacher…" page 193
"…It’s embarrassing. What use is my attraction to truthfulness if all I can do is admit my anarthas, especially the anartha called pramada, inattentive chanting..." page 196
"…If I can overcome my lack of appreciation for the poetic metaphors the acaryas have used to describe Krsna’s beauty, then I too will one day appreciate seeing Krsna returning home after a day on Govardhana hill..." page 202
"… Also beauty is always incomplete until it is engaged in Krsna’s service. Krsna says that he is the strength of man when the man is "devoid of passion." We may become affected by the first "shock wave" when we see a woman "dressed to kill" But on second glance, we are not interested in becoming entrapped by her physical features…." Page 204
"I used top feel more the conflict between trying to be his disciples and trying to be guru. That was because there were excesses in the way we received grand worship befitting only Srila Prabhupada. I sometimes saw him as my rival. Still, I sometimes feel a tinge of jealousy when one of my disciples speaks on and on about all the realizations he is getting from his direct relationship with Srila Prabhupada. In the old days (1978-1986) we used to tell them, "Don’t jump over your spiritual master. You cannot have a direct relationship with Srila Prabhupada. You have to go through us." Now I encourage the differently, Srila Prabhupada…" page 211
"…And I always feel betrayed when someone decides to make a clean break with Krsna consciousness. So I think, "Why bother? Why be betrayed in the end by such a high percentage of those I accept for initiation?" But I keep doing it, Srila Prabhupada, out of my desire to serve you. Despite the argument, by those who say that us nobodies can’t be gurus, ISKCON is committed to continuing the parampara of diksa-gurus. It appears that this is supported by guru, sastra, and sadhu. We just have to somehow come up with the right attitude when doing it…."page 211
"… I can’t even imagine giving up the responsibility I owe to those I have already initiated. I took those disciples on behalf of ISKCON, as a servant of the movement. It keeps me in the camp. There are advantages to taking disciples, although these same advantages can become curses if they are not treated the same way. The guru is the representative of Krsna to his disciples. Therefore they want to please him and they do this by offering service and money.
"…Srila Prabhupada, it didn’t work when I tried to imitate you, when I tried to be for my disciples what you were for me in 1966. Now I’ve adjusted myself within the general reform in ISKCON. I also tried to bring about that reform. I now try to strike the profile of servant and friend to my disciples." page 212
"…I must search and learn – more microscopic honesty. So that you can see the difference between Prabhupada’s actual presence and my literary game…" page 236
"…He also teaches us to be patient with the dryness that comes due to all of our offenses…" page 252
" …He was dangerously old and not in strong health.. in America it would be different…" page 258
"… Madhu closed the book and looked up beaming," That’s fabulous!" Ganga dasa was smiling too. The best story, the very real and human story of Srila Prabhupada" page 259
"… He explains that we should never have deviated in any way. Did he ever deviate from the orders of his guru maharaja? Never. Why do we? The instructions are clear. Deviation means we are foolish rascals with desires other than service to guru. He means me. …" Page 261
ys yasoda nandana dasa
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Who Authorises the GBC, and Who Holds Them Accountable?
ys yasoda nandana dasa
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Who Authorises the GBC, and Who Holds Them Accountable?
Governance in a posthumous Prabhupāda ISKCON
1. Doubt
Who authorises the GBC? Who holds the GBC accountable? And, now that Śrīla Prabhupāda is no longer physically present, who has the authority to correct, redirect or discipline the GBC when it fails in its responsibilities?
2. Thesis
The GBC is legally and institutionally bound by Śrīla Prabhupāda's instructions, his Will and the principles under which ISKCON was established. But who provides the living supervisory authority that holds the collective GBC accountable?
There is no living Prabhupāda-equivalent above the GBC who can intervene, correct its decisions and hold individual commissioners accountable.
The GBC has become the ultimate managing authority. But who holds that authority accountable?
There is no living Prabhupāda-equivalent above the GBC who can intervene, correct its decisions and hold individual commissioners accountable.
The GBC has become the ultimate managing authority. But who holds that authority accountable?
3. Expansion: Why is this important?
During Prabhupāda's lifetime, he understood the importance of establishing a governing body that could manage the Society after his departure.
His own spiritual master, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, had expressed regret that he had not established a GBC to manage the institution after his departure.
Prabhupāda took that lesson seriously.
His own spiritual master, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, had expressed regret that he had not established a GBC to manage the institution after his departure.
Prabhupāda took that lesson seriously.
He established the GBC, developed it, trained it, directed it, corrected it and repeatedly intervened in its affairs. He spent considerable time and effort trying to get the commissioners to cooperate and implement his instructions.
In his own words, managing the GBC was sometimes a headache.
In his own words, managing the GBC was sometimes a headache.
There were disagreements, dissensions, failures to cooperate and instances of disobedience. Prabhupāda had to reprimand commissioners, remove individuals and reorganise the governing arrangements.
In other words, the GBC was not an automatically self-correcting institution. It required active supervision.
Now Prabhupāda is no longer physically present.
Who performs that supervisory function?
4. The original accountability mechanism
The Direction of Management (DOM), dated 28 July 1970, contained an important provision concerning the future selection of GBC commissioners.
It provided for Temple Presidents to elect commissioners for three-year terms, with the possibility of re-election. This created a mechanism through which the local leadership could participate in determining who represented them on the governing body.
Prabhupāda subsequently modified the appointment procedure in 1975, taking responsibility for nominating GBC members himself.
However, the March 1977 GBC minutes still document a collective review mechanism through which Temple Presidents could propose amendments to GBC decisions, with a two-thirds majority required to refer proposals back to the GBC.
This raises an important question:
This raises an important question:
Were these arrangements intended to ensure that the GBC remained accountable to the Society after Prabhupāda's departure?
And, if so, what happened to that accountability mechanism?
5. A practical example
Consider the current moratorium on initiations.
The GBC announces that initiating gurus cannot perform initiations between 1
December and Gaura Pūrṇimā.
What happens if a guru disagrees? What happens if a Temple President disagrees and facilitates an initiation anyway?
What are the respective responsibilities, disciplinary procedures and consequences?
Who determines whether the GBC's decision is consistent with Prabhupāda's instructions?
And who holds the GBC accountable if its decision-making process itself is defective?
These are not merely theoretical questions. They concern the authority of individuals to perform their services and the ability of local communities to function.
6. The organisational problem
There is also a question about the actual distribution of authority within ISKCON.
The GBC is supposed to provide worldwide management and administration. Yet, increasingly, the distinction between spiritual leadership, managerial authority and local operational responsibility appears blurred.
The GBC is supposed to provide worldwide management and administration. Yet, increasingly, the distinction between spiritual leadership, managerial authority and local operational responsibility appears blurred.
Sometimes individuals simultaneously occupy several positions: GBC commissioner, initiating guru, sannyāsī, regional authority and temple leader.
Where does one responsibility end and another begin?
Who evaluates their performance in each role?
Who resolves conflicting instructions?
How long does it take to make decisions? How effectively are decisions implemented?
An organisation can have elaborate committees, ministries, regional structures and constitutional documents, but these do not automatically produce effective governance.
The head of an organisation needs clarity of purpose, responsibility and direction. When the governing authority itself appears confused about its mandate, the rest of the organisation inevitably experiences the consequences.
7. The fundamental question
I am an adult considering whether to participate in an organisation and potentially dedicate a significant part of my life to its mission.
I want to understand its authority structure, accountability mechanisms, decision-making processes and standards of leadership.
I want to know who authorises the governing body, who evaluates its performance, who corrects it when it makes mistakes and who has the authority to replace those who are not fulfilling their responsibilities.
I am not questioning the need for management. I am questioning whether the present management structure provides sufficient accountability.
The GBC was established to serve Śrīla Prabhupāda's mission and manage the Society on behalf of its members.
The governing body exists to serve the Society. The Society does not exist to serve the governing body.
So, who holds the GBC accountable?
And, looking at the present organisational structure, what institutional improvements can we identify that can assist ISKCON in functioning as a healthy, self-correcting and dependable spiritual society?
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DEVOTEES HAVE TO START REPORTING TO THE POLICE
PL: I am not fine with that... But what stops devotees who care from uniting and filing an official report with law enforcement about sexual abuse of children and women in ISKCON? Why hasn't it happened yet? There are hunters of pedophiles who are hardly waiting to track some of them.... Why do many of the victims keep quiet? Because they are afraid of ISKCON authorities? Who cares for them if they try to hide this... What can they do, proclaim the victims crazy? If a big enough number of victims step out officially, they are done
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