SHOULD POISONERS AND MURDERERS BE FORGIVEN?
How should we be forgiving?
By: Nityananda Das
Someone made a comment on my last post about Tamal and his claims that Srila Prabhupada asked him many times for “medicine to die now,” and it caught my eye in particular. Here it is:
“So firstly, I don't see 100 per cent proof that Tamal Krishna Goswami can be found guilty of this crime. I have read some of Tamal Krishna's writing ... in which he shows love for Srila Prabhupada. I know that he served Srila Prabhupada for many years. I know that Srila Prabhupada loved him. I'll stay on the side where Tamal showed his light. I won't judge him. Only Krishna can judge him. The duty of a brāhmaṇa is to culture the quality of forgiveness, which is illuminating like the sun. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, is pleased with those who are forgiving. (SB 9:15:40 purport)”
In the book available for free download from www.killgurubecomeguru.org
we included 17 long chapters in Part Seven: The Real Tamal As Evidence, wherein Tamal’s true nature and colors are distilled and clarified. He may have had love for Srila Prabhupada or not; but that is not the issue at hand.
What has been established is that he was the mastermind of the hijacking of Srila Prabhupada’s mission and of Srila Prabhupada’s poisoning with heavy metals. The evidence is overwhelming and cannot be ignored simply by being sentimental or impressed that Tamal spoke high praise of Srila Prabhupada, even if he sincerely meant it. Judas also loved Jesus Christ but his love of silver coins overwhelmed him and he betrayed his master.
Similarly, an in-depth look at Tamal’s history and activities clearly shows a man possessed by material ambition, pride, and the desire to be the next Acharya in ISKCON. He almost certainly (not 100% for sure, but maybe 95+% for sure) spearheaded a group of senior disciples, some of whom are still in the topmost ranks of ISKCON leadership today, in the cadmium and arsenic poisoning of Srila Prabhupada.
In the YouTube film in question, titled Tamal: The Mercy Killer, Tamal makes extremely weird and incriminating statements that only magnify the other evidence that he was NOT the loving senior disciple he often portrayed himself as or others portray him as. He was a very conflicted person. He loved Srila Prabhupada and also envied and resented him (e.g., “Prabhupada has ruined my life.”) We see this all so often in the material world where a man will love his wife, but end up killing her due to conflicted emotions. What is so hard to understand about this? Even if he loved Prabhupada, that does not negate what he did to try to kill his body and mission.
The difficulty arises with the widespread intimidation and propaganda campaign by the ISKCON leadership of the last 40 years- namely that we regular devotees should never question the policies, decisions, acts, and stature of those disciples who were so “intimately” serving Srila Prabhupada. Mad elephant offense! Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur was also very merciful to his senior-most manager disciple- the one who contributed greatly to the breakup of the Gaudiya Math. So Srila Prabhupada’s mercy and love of Tamal should not be taken as an endorsement of whatever Tamal would do in the future… anymore so than for Jayatirtha, Bhavananda, Kirtanananda and many others. Prabhupada’s mercy should not be seen as an approval of Tamal’s post-1977 actions.
Our purpose is not in condemnation of Tamal. It is to understand, discover, and rectify what has been done to Srila Prabhupada’s mission by Tamal and others. It is about discovering TRUTH. It is not about wallowing in hatred or faultfinding unnecessarily as many are wont to do. We must hate the sin but not the sinner. It is not for us to forgive Tamal for what he has done, neither for us to punish or reward him. We are looking to the future of the movement by studying the course of the past and how it has brought us to the present.
In the YouTube film in question, titled Tamal: The Mercy Killer, Tamal makes extremely weird and incriminating statements that only magnify the other evidence that he was NOT the loving senior disciple he often portrayed himself as or others portray him as. He was a very conflicted person. He loved Srila Prabhupada and also envied and resented him (e.g., “Prabhupada has ruined my life.”) We see this all so often in the material world where a man will love his wife, but end up killing her due to conflicted emotions. What is so hard to understand about this? Even if he loved Prabhupada, that does not negate what he did to try to kill his body and mission.
The difficulty arises with the widespread intimidation and propaganda campaign by the ISKCON leadership of the last 40 years- namely that we regular devotees should never question the policies, decisions, acts, and stature of those disciples who were so “intimately” serving Srila Prabhupada. Mad elephant offense! Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur was also very merciful to his senior-most manager disciple- the one who contributed greatly to the breakup of the Gaudiya Math. So Srila Prabhupada’s mercy and love of Tamal should not be taken as an endorsement of whatever Tamal would do in the future… anymore so than for Jayatirtha, Bhavananda, Kirtanananda and many others. Prabhupada’s mercy should not be seen as an approval of Tamal’s post-1977 actions.
Our purpose is not in condemnation of Tamal. It is to understand, discover, and rectify what has been done to Srila Prabhupada’s mission by Tamal and others. It is about discovering TRUTH. It is not about wallowing in hatred or faultfinding unnecessarily as many are wont to do. We must hate the sin but not the sinner. It is not for us to forgive Tamal for what he has done, neither for us to punish or reward him. We are looking to the future of the movement by studying the course of the past and how it has brought us to the present.
And in this manner, after studying Tamal’s actions and words, we have no hesitation in giving our deeply considered opinion and evaluation- he was the worst thing that happened to ISKCON. A careful, patient listen to this film about him will quickly dispel any sentimental delusions. He almost surely poisoned Srila Prabhupada with a group of supporters, who still control the movement today on its deviant track into sahajiyaism, impersonalism, materialism, Hinduization, social welfare-ism, and all sorts of other horrendous areas of disobedience to the real Acharya, Srila Prabhupada.
May Tamal rest in peace but may what he did be uncovered, known, and UNDONE to preserve the Divine Mission of Srila Prabhupada.
http://www.iskcon-truth.com/poison/prabhupada-suicide.html
May Tamal rest in peace but may what he did be uncovered, known, and UNDONE to preserve the Divine Mission of Srila Prabhupada.
http://www.iskcon-truth.com/poison/prabhupada-suicide.html
http://www.iskcon-truth.com/poison/nityananda/Tamals-mercy-killing.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddztd0ruzhU
[PADA: Right, we jeevas were ALL at one time "doing nice service" in Vaikuntha. However, we are also independent beings who can choose to serve or not to serve, and thus we can change this status according to our desires and actions. Therefore, some of the people who came to serve Krishna in ISKCON changed course, and they gave up that service mentality and "went back to their old ways." Others tried to overtake the post of guru because they came to ISKCON to more or less exploit the institution and not to serve it.
My personal feeling is that people like Tamal were motivated for the "guru position" (guru bhoghi) all along. Tamal was just waiting for the time he could strike out and perform his ISKCON hi-jacking and guru seat take-over plot. Unfortunately, many others in his cabal had similar "guru wanna-be" desires such as: Harikesha, Jayatirtha, Ramesvara, Satsvarupa, Kirtanananda, Jayapataka, Hansadutta, Bhagavan and so on, and thus they all went along with Tamal's bogus "guru train ride to hell," to get their piece of the hi-jacked and stolen booty. In sum: Judas got the gold pieces, and then he shared it with others.
They all had one degree or other of the desire for pratistha, position and glory. And of course following that deviant process not too far behind -- are its hand maidens -- kama, kamini, lobha, krodha etc. -- the desire for material opulence, money, followers, illicit sex and so many other unwanted weeds that overtake the devotional creeper, if some of these folks ever even had a devotional creeper.
They all had one degree or other of the desire for pratistha, position and glory. And of course following that deviant process not too far behind -- are its hand maidens -- kama, kamini, lobha, krodha etc. -- the desire for material opulence, money, followers, illicit sex and so many other unwanted weeds that overtake the devotional creeper, if some of these folks ever even had a devotional creeper.
Then later on, the GBC's under "the reformers" (like Rocana das) began issuing "guru rubber stamp certificates" and they found yet another wave of motivated people who would work under the authority of the original cabal in order to get certified as "the next guru / parampara link" after the bogus eleven. This would include people like: Jayadvaita swami, Prithu das, Trvrikrama swami, Ravindra swarupa das, Bhakti Chaitanya swami (aka Raghubir), Bhakti Caru swami, Gaura Govinda swami and many, many others in the "latter day GBC's saints." So they all had to basically lick Tamal's boots in order to get into his devious guru sabha.
If the entire ISKCON GBC's "guru association party" is originating and rooted in the poisoning of Srila Prabhupada, then everyone who "goes along to get along" or is "certified as Tamal's co-guru" by this sabha etc. is guilty of the crime of (at bare minimum) -- supporting the worship of Judas. This is why the GBC as a whole has resisted the basic idea that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, it attacks and uproots their whole program, because it discredits their main founding father / leader / mastermind of the entire appointed "guru" program, aka Tamal Krishna swami.
So the co-guru's associating with Tamal and his poisoning sabha and program would implicate almost all of them. And lest we forget, the bulk of the GBC's are already implicated in supporting the rest of the troublesome regime's members, for example Kirtanananda's criminal regime, the Mayapura gurukula abuse regime, and so many other deviations. And if a poison plot is at the root of this whole process, then we have to expect that the branches and fruits will be afflicted, i.e. the whole GBC as a body will be infected with poisonous mental, physical and nefarious "spiritual" by-products. And then the society overall will be infected in different ways, and it apparently was. Did we forget to mention some folks, including some ex-kulis, think the GBC is a black magic Satanic cult?
So the co-guru's associating with Tamal and his poisoning sabha and program would implicate almost all of them. And lest we forget, the bulk of the GBC's are already implicated in supporting the rest of the troublesome regime's members, for example Kirtanananda's criminal regime, the Mayapura gurukula abuse regime, and so many other deviations. And if a poison plot is at the root of this whole process, then we have to expect that the branches and fruits will be afflicted, i.e. the whole GBC as a body will be infected with poisonous mental, physical and nefarious "spiritual" by-products. And then the society overall will be infected in different ways, and it apparently was. Did we forget to mention some folks, including some ex-kulis, think the GBC is a black magic Satanic cult?
And if all of these deviations combined and over took the society, and nearly destroyed and bankrupted the society, and nearly destroyed the second generation with mass molesting, and caused so many other problems in so many other ways, how are these people "lovers of Srila Prabhupada" at any point? According to many of my God brothers and sisters, the GBC's sabha "took ISKCON into the sewer." OK and a sewer is full of poisonous substances, so it all fits together. So! If there was poison at the root, and it then spreads up the trunk and to the branches, then it will spread to the flowers and fruits and so forth. Then the whole thing self-evidently turns into -- a poisonous sewer.
It thus makes a lot of sense that if the root of this process is -- poisoning of the acharya -- then later we should expect poisoning of his society, his books, his gurukula students, the reputation of his movement, and so on and so forth, i.e. poisoning of the entire infrastructure and those within it. Of course even those who opted to go outside are still affected by the results.
For starters we need to ask, can anyone be forgiven for making a program of systematic banning, beating, suing, molesting and assassinating the Vaishnava devotees of the Lord, as the GBC (as a body overall) orchestrated after 1977? Not according to shastra. In fact, even having devotees beaten seems to result in going into the stone rollers at Yamaraja's planet. What to speak then of having so many devotees beaten, molested, sued, abused and so on and so forth?
Even "karmis" sometimes ask me, how do these people even believe in God if they behave so badly? And some devotees ask me, how can these people even believe in Lord Chaitanya a little bit, since they tried everything possible to harm and halt His movement, and depress, suppress and repress His devotees?
Thus it would seem sensible, the poisoning of a pure devotee would be many hundreds of trillions of times more severe and offensive than merely beating up some of the rank and file, so one can just imagine the unfortunate future of those implicated in this process, or those benefiting by riding on its coat tails (see quote below). It then seems to us at PADA that -- our either forgiving or not forgiving these miscreants is somewhat of a moot point.
We are -- for starters -- not potent enough to alter their future. We alone cannot forgive these people sufficiently to save them from their sad future. In other words, they are ALREADY condemned. Its not within our power or grasp to save them, the "higher powers" will deal with them severely, and its already written into their future history, yes -- ALREADY. And its pretty much written in stone, although they could maybe get some time off their many kalpas long prison sentence if they would come clean now.
Yes, of course Jesus forgave his attackers, but did that save them from the court of Yamaraja? Probably -- not. Srila Prabhupada says false gurus are NEVER forgiven by the Lord or any agents of the Lord, so they are basically predestined be be roasted and toasted into a hellish future. The Isopanisad confirms this, these false acharyas might be forgiven in the mundane "karmi's" laws and courts, but they are never forgiven in God's courts.
So we can either forgive them or not forgive, its does not seem to matter that much in the end, because they are going to be placed into the higher court system than ours, and that court does not seem to have much wriggle room for forgiving such deviants. Even when these deviant people finally get out of the lowest regions of the universe, after some duration of many kalpas, and make it back here, they are not going to be doing very well. They will still be placed into lower births and so on. In other words, misuse of physical power and intelligence means, they do not get that benediction later on.
The good news is, more and more folks now know we need to back track and try to figure out how and where all this went off the rails. And it does appear that the poison issue is a central focus point on how all these deviations started and evolved, and then grew into a huge deviant acharya's infrastructure. Of course more and more people now realize that the GBC's "evil witch" is basically dead, so they are feeling safe to come out and oppose them. And that is happening more and more.
We keep getting very encouraging messages from all sorts of people, they want to worship Srila Prabhupada now ... and so forth. So the poison effect is gradually weakening in influence, but I agree with Nityananda das, we need to make sure all this history is recorded so people will understand how all of these events came to pass. Right now we are getting many more daily views than we had from last year, thus more and more people are catching up on this history, and they are starting to back track -- trying to "get back" on the original path of attaining Krishna as given by Srila Prabhupada. ys pd
=======================
THOSE WHO ENJOY BLACK MONEY, EARNED BY KILLING, ARE SENT TO HELL.
When a man earns money by unfair means and maintains his family and himself with that money, the money is enjoyed by many members of the family, but he alone goes to hell. A person who enjoys life by earning money or by envying another's life, and who enjoys with family and friends, will have to enjoy alone the resultant sinful reactions accrued from such violent and illicit life. For example, if a man secures some money by killing someone and with that money maintains his family, those who enjoy the black money earned by him are also partially responsible and are also sent to hell, but he who is the leader is especially punished. The result of material enjoyment is that one takes with him the sinful reaction only, and not the money. The money he earned is left in this world, and he takes only the reaction.
In this world also, if a person acquires some money by murdering someone, the family is not hanged, although its members are sinfully contaminated. But the man who commits the murder and maintains his family is himself hanged as a murderer. The direct offender is more responsible for sinful activities than the indirect enjoyer. The great learned scholar Canakya Pandita says, therefore, that whatever one has in his possession had better be spent for the cause of sat, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, because one cannot take his possessions with him. They remain here, and they will be lost. Either we leave the money or the money leaves us, but we will be separated. The best use of money as long as it is within our possession is to spend it to acquire Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
================================
PS: Some devotees have recently told us that Mukunda UK's whole Hitler-anuga process is simply designed to also be another form of poisoning for the ISKCON society and its devotees, pushing the poor citizens into promoting and worshiping another mundane man, a person Srila Prabhupada says is "a big animal." Worship of big animals would be considered as toxic to an actual devotee of Krishna, what to speak of promoting this deviation to others.
As some devotees said to us, its simply jumping from worshiping one process of death and destruction deviants to another. Sulochana called this process "bait and switch." They will tell you, OK do not worship this (GBC) deviant, worship another (GBC) deviant, he is the real savior. And these Hitler-anuga guys are saying -- do not worship the GBC's deviants, worship another death and destruction deviant; now Hitler is the real savior.
Bait and switch: switching one total mundane ignorance, illusion, cheating, suffering, and death and destruction program -- by promoting another. Worship of a mundane man is bad to start with, but worship of a mundane man who causes massive death and destruction is -- purely evil. The whole idea is to poison the original instruction to avoid promoting such foolishness, and to take the human society down into promoting the modes of ignorance. Exactly what Tamal does. We agree with this analysis. ys pd
It thus makes a lot of sense that if the root of this process is -- poisoning of the acharya -- then later we should expect poisoning of his society, his books, his gurukula students, the reputation of his movement, and so on and so forth, i.e. poisoning of the entire infrastructure and those within it. Of course even those who opted to go outside are still affected by the results.
For starters we need to ask, can anyone be forgiven for making a program of systematic banning, beating, suing, molesting and assassinating the Vaishnava devotees of the Lord, as the GBC (as a body overall) orchestrated after 1977? Not according to shastra. In fact, even having devotees beaten seems to result in going into the stone rollers at Yamaraja's planet. What to speak then of having so many devotees beaten, molested, sued, abused and so on and so forth?
Even "karmis" sometimes ask me, how do these people even believe in God if they behave so badly? And some devotees ask me, how can these people even believe in Lord Chaitanya a little bit, since they tried everything possible to harm and halt His movement, and depress, suppress and repress His devotees?
Thus it would seem sensible, the poisoning of a pure devotee would be many hundreds of trillions of times more severe and offensive than merely beating up some of the rank and file, so one can just imagine the unfortunate future of those implicated in this process, or those benefiting by riding on its coat tails (see quote below). It then seems to us at PADA that -- our either forgiving or not forgiving these miscreants is somewhat of a moot point.
We are -- for starters -- not potent enough to alter their future. We alone cannot forgive these people sufficiently to save them from their sad future. In other words, they are ALREADY condemned. Its not within our power or grasp to save them, the "higher powers" will deal with them severely, and its already written into their future history, yes -- ALREADY. And its pretty much written in stone, although they could maybe get some time off their many kalpas long prison sentence if they would come clean now.
Yes, of course Jesus forgave his attackers, but did that save them from the court of Yamaraja? Probably -- not. Srila Prabhupada says false gurus are NEVER forgiven by the Lord or any agents of the Lord, so they are basically predestined be be roasted and toasted into a hellish future. The Isopanisad confirms this, these false acharyas might be forgiven in the mundane "karmi's" laws and courts, but they are never forgiven in God's courts.
So we can either forgive them or not forgive, its does not seem to matter that much in the end, because they are going to be placed into the higher court system than ours, and that court does not seem to have much wriggle room for forgiving such deviants. Even when these deviant people finally get out of the lowest regions of the universe, after some duration of many kalpas, and make it back here, they are not going to be doing very well. They will still be placed into lower births and so on. In other words, misuse of physical power and intelligence means, they do not get that benediction later on.
The good news is, more and more folks now know we need to back track and try to figure out how and where all this went off the rails. And it does appear that the poison issue is a central focus point on how all these deviations started and evolved, and then grew into a huge deviant acharya's infrastructure. Of course more and more people now realize that the GBC's "evil witch" is basically dead, so they are feeling safe to come out and oppose them. And that is happening more and more.
We keep getting very encouraging messages from all sorts of people, they want to worship Srila Prabhupada now ... and so forth. So the poison effect is gradually weakening in influence, but I agree with Nityananda das, we need to make sure all this history is recorded so people will understand how all of these events came to pass. Right now we are getting many more daily views than we had from last year, thus more and more people are catching up on this history, and they are starting to back track -- trying to "get back" on the original path of attaining Krishna as given by Srila Prabhupada. ys pd
=======================
THOSE WHO ENJOY BLACK MONEY, EARNED BY KILLING, ARE SENT TO HELL.
When a man earns money by unfair means and maintains his family and himself with that money, the money is enjoyed by many members of the family, but he alone goes to hell. A person who enjoys life by earning money or by envying another's life, and who enjoys with family and friends, will have to enjoy alone the resultant sinful reactions accrued from such violent and illicit life. For example, if a man secures some money by killing someone and with that money maintains his family, those who enjoy the black money earned by him are also partially responsible and are also sent to hell, but he who is the leader is especially punished. The result of material enjoyment is that one takes with him the sinful reaction only, and not the money. The money he earned is left in this world, and he takes only the reaction.
In this world also, if a person acquires some money by murdering someone, the family is not hanged, although its members are sinfully contaminated. But the man who commits the murder and maintains his family is himself hanged as a murderer. The direct offender is more responsible for sinful activities than the indirect enjoyer. The great learned scholar Canakya Pandita says, therefore, that whatever one has in his possession had better be spent for the cause of sat, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, because one cannot take his possessions with him. They remain here, and they will be lost. Either we leave the money or the money leaves us, but we will be separated. The best use of money as long as it is within our possession is to spend it to acquire Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
================================
PS: Some devotees have recently told us that Mukunda UK's whole Hitler-anuga process is simply designed to also be another form of poisoning for the ISKCON society and its devotees, pushing the poor citizens into promoting and worshiping another mundane man, a person Srila Prabhupada says is "a big animal." Worship of big animals would be considered as toxic to an actual devotee of Krishna, what to speak of promoting this deviation to others.
As some devotees said to us, its simply jumping from worshiping one process of death and destruction deviants to another. Sulochana called this process "bait and switch." They will tell you, OK do not worship this (GBC) deviant, worship another (GBC) deviant, he is the real savior. And these Hitler-anuga guys are saying -- do not worship the GBC's deviants, worship another death and destruction deviant; now Hitler is the real savior.
Bait and switch: switching one total mundane ignorance, illusion, cheating, suffering, and death and destruction program -- by promoting another. Worship of a mundane man is bad to start with, but worship of a mundane man who causes massive death and destruction is -- purely evil. The whole idea is to poison the original instruction to avoid promoting such foolishness, and to take the human society down into promoting the modes of ignorance. Exactly what Tamal does. We agree with this analysis. ys pd
Why is anyone promoting the worship of this guy, at all?
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