The Plan to Take Away Krishna's Servants?

PADA: The GBC / Rocana / Rupanuga / Torben Nielsen /  Ajit Krishna's post-1977 plan to stop all "diksha guru" initiations after Srila Prabhupada physically departs is creating a big crisis all over ISKCON -- where people are not taking initiation (like Torben) and then -- there are hardly any (initiated) cooks and poojaris left to do the job. How did you guess, most people are not interested in being initiated by a GBC guru. 

Nor did Srila Prabhupada ever launch a system where photos of various GBC people would be placed on the altars to be receiving the deity pooja and bhogha offerings of worship etc. Worse, even if we could find some bona fide brahmanas to do the offerings, they would not want to make offerings to GBC's managers anyway. What kind of religion makes offerings to the managers?  

Srila Prabhupada DOES SAY that the temple's cooking and poojari work has to be done by initiated people, so why would Srila Prabhupada invite all these Krishna deities to his temples all over the planet for years, then arrange to have no initiated people to serve these deities after he departs, because no one would be getting initiated by him after 1977? Then we would have to put these deities into a storage box for lack of servants? This makes no sense, Srila Prabhupada invited all these deities, but he did not want them to have initiated servants after 1977?

And where does Srila Prabhupada set up the current arrangement to have the GBC's members getting worshiped and having bhogha offerings made to them? And since these GBC's people are falling down left, right and center, how can bhogha offerings be made to them in the first place? Torben and his pals claim to be reading the books, where is this arrangement found in these books? And if only pure things are meant to be placed on altars, why are the GBC placing photos of people who are falling down on the altars, right at Krishna's feet?

And now the upshot is, there is a severe shortage of initiated cooks and poojaris, and in some temples they have had to import some cooks and poojaris from Bengal and so forth. We have a report of some of these Bengali guys who were going to the doughnut shop right after mangala arotike to drink coffee, eat doughnuts, and chat it up with the young attractive waitresses there, for more than an hour every day. Apparently these fellows were more interested in "getting a green card" and waitress chatting than in serving Krishna.

Of course that temple is perhaps lucky to have anyone doing any Krishna deity pooja at all, as some deities have been removed, and taken away from closed temples and placed in storage -- or under carports. Where did Srila Prabhupada say we should stop the pooja process by stopping the initiations of Krishna's cooks and poojaris? And then Krishna ends up maybe under a carport with no servants and program for His worship?

I have no idea why folks like Rupanuga, Rocana, Torben and Ajit and ilk want to halt the original program to make more brahmanas, and thus get rid of all the poojaris so there is no one left to worship the deity? Why do these folks always want Krishna to have no servants? I don't get it? Anyway, their plan to get rid of most of the cooks and poojaris by stopping initiations is working pretty good, there are hardly any cooks and poojaris left. And unfortunately when these folks find out we have initiated some Prabhupadanugas to do cooking and pooja in a few places at least, they are angry when they see Krishna is being served nicely.

Dear PADA: Hare Krishna! Jay Sri Radhe!
Pamho. Jay Srila Prabhupada!

According to your saying that Torben is mayavada because he never names his living guru, I need to tell you that you got wrong. Sorry, I am younger but the truth is that HDG Prabhupada is Torben Prabhuji's Guru whether or not he'll accept at all any "Living Guru" for taking 'diksa' or not. That does not make him mayavada Prabhuji. He will stay,like me - Srila Prabhupada's disciple, no doubt  (I hope he is smart to stay) and he will recieve Siksa from Prabhupada's books.

[PADA: OK Torben says that his idea, which is really to stop all the deity cooking and pooja, is found in the books. Where does Srila Prabhupada say, after I depart, we will no longer have any initiated cooks and poojaris? Worse, as soon as Torben finds out we are making some cooks and poojaris, he is angry that Krishna is getting served. Torben told me the Srila Prabhupada's original devotees can do the cooking and pooja (forever?). Great, except -- many of them no longer follow the process, many of them went wandering off to the Gaudiya Matha, many are already dead, and almost none of them are in ISKCON or even near a temple anymore in any case. Serving the Supreme God is not some joke?

Torben says for example, how do we know Srila Prabhupada is accepting bhogha offerings or new initiated disciples, well how does he know Srila Prabhupada is not accepting? Of course then again Torben's living gurus tend to engage in debauchee behaviors, whereas at least some of our Prabhupadanuga folks are following much better. Is Torben saying that the people who are worshiping a debauchee process are better off than those of us who worship Prabhupada?]         

Is it not? Hope you'll agree : If I don't like 'my Diksa Guru's' instructions or if he is deviant (please don't take that I am point on my "living Guru" please ! He is not deviating but, hypothetically, if he is deviating, I will ; in every moment because I can and I still love Srila Prabhupada and I will turn to Srila Prabhupada's books and into his teachings, and I will find the instructions that I cannot find in my living Guru's' teachings.

ps Torben Prabhu sorry that I'd wrote into your name please.Hope I'd not offend you.

Jay Sri Guru & Gauranga !

Yhs in Prabhupada's mission,
D das.

[PADA: OK so you are first of all saying that Krishna's successor gurus are sometimes deviating, and yet that is one of the ten offenses to the holy name, to say that gurus are deviating. You will worship a conditioned soul as guru, but when he deviates you will fall back to your last resort -- of worship of Prabhupada. So that means you prefer to worship deviants and not Prabhupada in the first place. Why is Srila Prabhupada the second class, or maybe tenth class choice for you folks? 

Yes, I will worship my drunken neighbor Bill, but when he goes to jail for drunk and disorderly, then I will worship Jesus. That means you prefer to worship the drunk and not Jesus in the first place! So, worship of the pure devotee is the low end of the totem pole of your list of worshipable persons. How does that make Krishna feel, yes Krishna, I will worship a fool as Your successor, but when he gets too foolish, then I might worship your pure devotee. Oh swell, that means you have no actual affection for Krishna or His pure devotee.

You folks have not even understood the square one principles of the religion. Yes, you guys need to read the books, where Srila Prabhupada says that those who think gurus are deviants are -- residents of hell. When are you guys going to pick up his books and read them? Worse, Torben says that his whole plan (which is to stop or hamper the deity worship) is in the books, what!

Torben also promotes the web sites of Rocana, and Rocana has been a big supporter of the GBC's gurus from the get go, and he is one of the 1986 GBC guru "reformers." Rocana thinks gurus are fools and debauchees who need to go to his "reform school for gurus." That means Rocana thinks he is the teacher of the acharyas, and the acharyas have to go to his reform school classes to learn not to watch porno. OK Rocana forgot that acharyas are meant to reform and teach him, he is not the teacher of the acharyas! 

How did Rocana become the teacher of the acharyas? Why does Torben promote people who think acharyas engage in illicit behaviors, then the acharyas have to go to Rocana's reform school class? You guys are reading the books, ooops, where are any of your nonsense ideas found in these books? 

We also have a nice Prabhupadanuga temple in Vancouver and Rocana apparently never visits, never advertises us, and he says we are bogus for our worship of Prabhupada. He says we are the bogus "church" of Prabhupada. Right, and he is the person who supports the GBC's sexual predator gurus' "church" and he still says recently they can vote in more gurus. People who are deviating can vote in more messiahs? Again, where is ANY of this found in the books?

Rocana basically hangs out with the GBC's crowd. Why does Torben support the Rocana people whose guru "reform" program starts out by reinstating sex with taxi driver acharyas, and they say worship of Prabhupada is bogus? Torben is with Rocana, a defender of the Tamal living guru program, and the GBC. Deities pooja service has to stop because we should have no more initiated brahmanas to do the cooking and pooja? It seems their plan is to starve Krishna, and unfortunately, its working, these guys have drained the temple's cooks and poojaris to a skeleton crew, never mind the many farms and centers that were simply closed down and shuttered.

Yep! Torben and the GBC's plan is working pretty good, there are almost no cooks and poojaris at a lots of ISKCON's temples because they are with the GBC, who says initiations have to stop, so there will be hardly no cooks and poojaris. Why does Torben want to have Krishna starve and have no initiated cooks and poojaris? He claims he loves Krishna, but he is aligned with the GBC, lets stop Krishna from having enough cooks and poojaris? 

Anyone who wants Krishna to starve and have no servants is not a devotee of Krishna, period. This also proves these guys have no idea what the books say, the books say we should have many brahmanas doing many ceremonies for Krishna, there is no place where Srila Prabhupada says stop this process. 

So we are making at least some of these brahmanas and Torben is against this, why does Torben want Krishna to starve like Tamal wanted? Srila Prabhupda said we need 50 initiated brahmanas just for the deity pooja in San Francisco, Torben says we need zero, who is right? Srila Prabhupada said do not change anything, ok do not change the process. 

So Torben thinks Krishna did not make a plan to continue His own worship? Did we forget to mention the Rocana sex with taxi driver guru program was molesting children? So Torben thinks there was no plan for how to make initiated devotees, he is just like Rocana. 

Of course! Kamsa, Ravana and Hiranyakasipu all wanted no brahmanas to be be cooking and doing pooja to Vishnu, and Torben wants the same exact thing! Anyway, if Torben and the person he promotes Rocana wanted to promote Srila Prabhupada, why is Rocana only going to the GBC's guru program in Vancouver and he avoids our Prabhupadanugas program there? 

Vancouver ISKCON temple is also suffering and having problems with not enough money to do repairs. So Torben supports the program that removes the brahmanas, and then their temples cannot function properly. Where does Srila Prabhupada say he wants this? Srila Prabhupada says he wants many brahmanas, Torben says he does not want any brahmanas, who is right? 

And how did Torben become the boss of Prabhupada, with Torben saying its bogus to have brahmanas doing deity pooja, because we cannot initiate any? Why does Torben want Krishna to starve and have no cooks and poojaris, as his program is doing in a number of temples already? Of course this all started with the GBC and Rupanuga who said all the initiations will stop, he wanted Krishna to be servant-less, and he has almost accomplished that. 

Anyway the good news is, we are making many new Prabhupada followers and getting them to serve the Lord. We are going to follow the process and get others to do that as well, so you either can do the same, or stay on the sinking boat of false gurus and their apologists like Rocana, Rupanuga etc.

ys pd