Torben Nielsen prabhu: Kailasa Candra prabhu is a great preacher and a bold brahmana. You do not know what you are talking about. And you are spreading misconceptions.
[PADA: Nope, Kailash is living in the desert in fear California will fall into the ocean, he is afraid of his own shadow. A brahmana is a person who is fearless, not a person who is hiding in the desert trying to avoid his inevitable death.
Ajit Krishna prabhu
Kansas is going to be the new coastline! Fine except, Srila Prabhupada told us that California is not going to fall into the ocean? Why don't Ajit and Torben have faith in the words of the acharya? Apart from that, the Kailash / Ajit / Torben program has been proven wrong on all accounts since, California is still here!
Kailash Chandra das: Why do these guys always go for the:
Moab Utah big beard / mountain man appearance?
Why do Ajit and Torben support a person who is a speculative astrologer at best, and he is spreading fear mongering among the Vaishnava community trying to create an artificial panic? A few families who followed Kailash to the mid-West went broke and had to come back to California. They were almost made homeless due to financial losses, he exploited them and made their families lives topsy turvy. OK, he apparently took their money and ran.
They basically went bankrupt. Why are Torben and Ajit still promoting these GBC style exploiters of the Vaishnavas? Why don't they know that the VEDAS say a bogus astrologer is destined to go to a bad future because -- he causes disturbances -- just like their bogus jyotish mentor Kailash is doing all the time! If Kailash could predict the future, he already could have made millions by predicting the stock market. He is a giant bluffer.
They basically went bankrupt. Why are Torben and Ajit still promoting these GBC style exploiters of the Vaishnavas? Why don't they know that the VEDAS say a bogus astrologer is destined to go to a bad future because -- he causes disturbances -- just like their bogus jyotish mentor Kailash is doing all the time! If Kailash could predict the future, he already could have made millions by predicting the stock market. He is a giant bluffer.
Anyway, this is not what Srila Prabhupada wanted, that some bogus jyotish's would be telling the Vaishnavas they all have to give up their living situations and immediately move away to the mid-West since -- the entire continent is sinking? Why do Torben and Ajit think this is the right person for all of us to follow? Harikesha was another nut job person who was always giving similar bogus predictions, and we are told he lost tons of money buying gold when the price went down. Why are some sectors of people always attracted to these bogus seers of the future, especially when these "predictions" usually end up going so far off the mark?
Kailash says "we need to go back to living in ISKCON's basics." Fine. Then he says, we need to totally dismantle the basics, and stop initiating people -- so there will be no more cooks or poojaris? That means -- he has no plan to conduct even the ABC basics? Then he says, we need to stop making temples, preaching programs and devotees, and instead move to the desert for who knows how long, while waiting for the giant Tsunami he falsely predicted -- to take out the West Coast. Why? California's sinking into the ocean is something he maybe once saw in a disaster movie, and this is his source of absolute truth? Even children know, movie material is not real life material.
Worse! Why should we all live in fear in the desert's Moab Utah waiting for California to sink into the ocean -- at all? What kind of life is this anyway, being fearful of death for decades? This is bodily identification, we need to move away from the entire West coast -- due to fear of death? Where does Srila Prabhupada discuss that we need to hide in the desert for decades in fear for our bodies? Ok, that means these people forgot the basics, we are not these bodies ...
When the Berkeley / Mt. Kailash farm was sold off, Kailash drove off in a big truck with a huge cow trailer behind, taking with him half the farm sale's money and half of the cows. He said he would drive his half of the cows to TEXAS. Ok he apparently NOW lives in an apartment in Moab Utah, thus begging the question, where are all our Berkeley farm cows now?
Most people assume that Kailash ditched the cows and he used the COW's money for himself, or worse, that the cows are not even living anymore. Is there any photographic evidence of these cows living at the present time? I can show the photo of his alleged current cows to the guys who took the other half of the cows, and ask them if these are the same ones? We have asked for proof of Kailash's alleged cow program for years, and heard nothing but crickets in response.
We have seen no photos or any other evidence of any cow protection program that is currently being run and managed by Kailash, or has been run by him for the past decade or more? What many devotees here in Berkeley say, he is a cattle rustler / cow kidnapper. Why are Ajit and Torben promoting the person known locally as cattle rustler pada? Why won't Ajit and Torben explain where their shiksha guru stuck our temple's cows? Are they saying these cows just disappeared, and the money to maintain these cows also just disappeared? Or is it not more likely that their hero sold the cows commercially in Texas, if they even made it that far, which seems the most likely explanation?
Kailash also lives EXCLUSIVELY among and with the Christian ritviks in Moab, and he is part of their society EXCLUSIVELY. He does not EVER associate with ours or other's Vaishnava communities, at least we never hear about that, but instead he associates exclusively with the local Christian ritviks, full time all the time. There are no Vaishnavas or temples in Moab, its a Bible belt Christian town. OK its where the big wheel jeep rock driving contest takes place.
He has no public preaching programs, no book printing, no book distribution, no harinama, no program to make new devotees etc. We, on the other hand, have at least some temples and many nice new young couples with little kids coming to our Sunnyvale program. In sum, there is at least some life to our program. The good news is that Kailash now looks exactly like a good Christian Moab mountain man, he fits right in there! Moab is a Biblical name?
Kailash says that the GBC are wrong, the ritviks are wrong, and so therefore -- we should all just start moving into the desert, give up all Vaishnava associations, and surrender to living in the Christian ritviks program. Why do Ajit and Torben want everyone to follow Kailash, and move to the Bible belt and forget any sort of Vaishnava association, and stop all of our current programs?
Kailash also says we no longer need initiations because we should not give any, but Srila Prabhupada says only initiated people can cook and do deity worship. Why does Kailash want all the cooking and deity worship to stop? Oh, I almost forgot, he wants us to move to the Bible belt and forget about all these programs established by the acharya!
Rocana is basically the same way, he does not have any public preaching programs, he avoids our programs, and he is against having new people getting initiated to do the deity pooja. Whereas, we have a nice and growing program in Vancouver, but Rocana avoids our program, and he just sits at home writing about how awful our program is, while he is not making a better one himself.
Anyway, sorry, we are not going to run away to Moab to live with cattle rustler pada, waiting for the ocean to swallow California! Sorry. Hee hee. The good news is that Kailash's program is just as living dead as he is, no one is going to jump in their car to move to Moab and sit in the middle of a desert dust storm, its just not attracting anyone, ok except Torben and Ajit. Kailash's program also rustled his one and only follower from here, he stole one of the Berkeley devotees to be his funding servant. Anyway, we are just asking how this is the way forward? ys pd
Thanks Torben: No, I am quoting you and Ajit? You both said that neophyte kanisthas can be diksha gurus. The GBC, the Harikesha party, and now you and Ajit are ALL saying the same thing, kanisthas can be diksha gurus (and absorb sins like Jesus). OK Kanisthas can be diksha gurus, have their feet washed like Jesus, have bhogha offered to them, that is what you are both saying. That is also what the GBC has been saying!
I am asking you now why you are saying that? And if you don't support that, why did you say your did? The diksha guru is the person who absorbs the sins, so you are saying kanisthas can -- be like Jesus? What is the difference between you and the GBC? Rocana is still saying the same thing, the diksha guru shall be voted in by 2/3 show of hands votes, and he will be removed if he deviates, that means he is still saying the diksha guru is a kanistha who often deviates. Why don't you folks know the parampara guru is a person who does not deviate? ys pd
Kailash says "we need to go back to living in ISKCON's basics." Fine. Then he says, we need to totally dismantle the basics, and stop initiating people -- so there will be no more cooks or poojaris? That means -- he has no plan to conduct even the ABC basics? Then he says, we need to stop making temples, preaching programs and devotees, and instead move to the desert for who knows how long, while waiting for the giant Tsunami he falsely predicted -- to take out the West Coast. Why? California's sinking into the ocean is something he maybe once saw in a disaster movie, and this is his source of absolute truth? Even children know, movie material is not real life material.
Worse! Why should we all live in fear in the desert's Moab Utah waiting for California to sink into the ocean -- at all? What kind of life is this anyway, being fearful of death for decades? This is bodily identification, we need to move away from the entire West coast -- due to fear of death? Where does Srila Prabhupada discuss that we need to hide in the desert for decades in fear for our bodies? Ok, that means these people forgot the basics, we are not these bodies ...
When the Berkeley / Mt. Kailash farm was sold off, Kailash drove off in a big truck with a huge cow trailer behind, taking with him half the farm sale's money and half of the cows. He said he would drive his half of the cows to TEXAS. Ok he apparently NOW lives in an apartment in Moab Utah, thus begging the question, where are all our Berkeley farm cows now?
Last known sighting of our Mt. Kailash Cows was in similar trailer, with Kailash at the wheel of the truck. Cows were never to be seen again!
We have seen no photos or any other evidence of any cow protection program that is currently being run and managed by Kailash, or has been run by him for the past decade or more? What many devotees here in Berkeley say, he is a cattle rustler / cow kidnapper. Why are Ajit and Torben promoting the person known locally as cattle rustler pada? Why won't Ajit and Torben explain where their shiksha guru stuck our temple's cows? Are they saying these cows just disappeared, and the money to maintain these cows also just disappeared? Or is it not more likely that their hero sold the cows commercially in Texas, if they even made it that far, which seems the most likely explanation?
Kailash also lives EXCLUSIVELY among and with the Christian ritviks in Moab, and he is part of their society EXCLUSIVELY. He does not EVER associate with ours or other's Vaishnava communities, at least we never hear about that, but instead he associates exclusively with the local Christian ritviks, full time all the time. There are no Vaishnavas or temples in Moab, its a Bible belt Christian town. OK its where the big wheel jeep rock driving contest takes place.
He has no public preaching programs, no book printing, no book distribution, no harinama, no program to make new devotees etc. We, on the other hand, have at least some temples and many nice new young couples with little kids coming to our Sunnyvale program. In sum, there is at least some life to our program. The good news is that Kailash now looks exactly like a good Christian Moab mountain man, he fits right in there! Moab is a Biblical name?
Kailash says that the GBC are wrong, the ritviks are wrong, and so therefore -- we should all just start moving into the desert, give up all Vaishnava associations, and surrender to living in the Christian ritviks program. Why do Ajit and Torben want everyone to follow Kailash, and move to the Bible belt and forget any sort of Vaishnava association, and stop all of our current programs?
Kailash also says we no longer need initiations because we should not give any, but Srila Prabhupada says only initiated people can cook and do deity worship. Why does Kailash want all the cooking and deity worship to stop? Oh, I almost forgot, he wants us to move to the Bible belt and forget about all these programs established by the acharya!
Rocana is basically the same way, he does not have any public preaching programs, he avoids our programs, and he is against having new people getting initiated to do the deity pooja. Whereas, we have a nice and growing program in Vancouver, but Rocana avoids our program, and he just sits at home writing about how awful our program is, while he is not making a better one himself.
Anyway, sorry, we are not going to run away to Moab to live with cattle rustler pada, waiting for the ocean to swallow California! Sorry. Hee hee. The good news is that Kailash's program is just as living dead as he is, no one is going to jump in their car to move to Moab and sit in the middle of a desert dust storm, its just not attracting anyone, ok except Torben and Ajit. Kailash's program also rustled his one and only follower from here, he stole one of the Berkeley devotees to be his funding servant. Anyway, we are just asking how this is the way forward? ys pd
Thanks Torben: No, I am quoting you and Ajit? You both said that neophyte kanisthas can be diksha gurus. The GBC, the Harikesha party, and now you and Ajit are ALL saying the same thing, kanisthas can be diksha gurus (and absorb sins like Jesus). OK Kanisthas can be diksha gurus, have their feet washed like Jesus, have bhogha offered to them, that is what you are both saying. That is also what the GBC has been saying!
I am asking you now why you are saying that? And if you don't support that, why did you say your did? The diksha guru is the person who absorbs the sins, so you are saying kanisthas can -- be like Jesus? What is the difference between you and the GBC? Rocana is still saying the same thing, the diksha guru shall be voted in by 2/3 show of hands votes, and he will be removed if he deviates, that means he is still saying the diksha guru is a kanistha who often deviates. Why don't you folks know the parampara guru is a person who does not deviate? ys pd
Thanks prabhu, Yes your are correct, its self evident that Kailash is a bit of a cracked kook, which begs the question, why are Torben and Ajit attracted to this type of person? Kailash thinks we neophytes are qualified to act as gurus and absorb sins like Jesus. That in itself is madness. Srila Prabhupada warned us not to even let other people touch our feet, or we would be acting like diksha gurus and taking their karma. He said if we did that, we would get sick, fall down, or both, so we had to touch the person's head and give them their karma back. A lot of these leaders have totally disregarded this instruction, they not only have had their feet touched a few times, they have had their feet washed on a regular basis, and have had people officially giving them their karma by accepting them as their gurus. How did you guess, there has been an epidemic of these leaders getting sick and falling down. Its actually amazing how much suffering and mental collapse some of these "gurus" have had to under take by not following this simple instruction, Srila Prabhupada also once told us the neophyte has little or no brahmana tejyas (spiritual effulgence) which burns the contamination off of a pure person, and that is why a pure person is not affected by such contaminations, but the person who does not have sufficient tejyas, he will have these contaminations -- stick to them. He warned us about this. I once passed Jayatirtha in a narrow hallway and my breath was taken away, he was covered with these accumulated contaminations and I could actually feel it and sense it. He failed to follow the simple ABC instruction, the neophyte cannot absorb the sins of others, its forbidden. Ramesvara had the same trouble no doubt. ys pd
ReplyDeleteYes I agree, simply the look of Kailash says it all. Anyway I did ask Torben and Ajit for a point for point rebuttal and we have not got any reply so far. ys pd
ReplyDeleteRight prabhu, some people simply need to have a living guru, its like a daddy complex. Formerly Torben and Ajit were already cheated by the madness of Harikesh, and so now they have moved on to another mad man. From the frying pan into the other frying pan.
ReplyDeleteThey probably don't know this but Kailash has no following in the USA except for one guy he stole from here. He has no model example of how his preaching program will work, because, its doesn't. Apart from that, Kailash has a bad reputation here for taking our temple's cows and the money meant to care for these cows.
In other words, he is another exploiter and yes, some people are attached to exploiters posing as messiahs, and they cannot live without that process. Several people have told me the photo of Kailash is all we need to see to know he is another charlatan messiah complex mad man. And yes, some folks are attracted to that type of hokey messiah and they need to worship these kinds of people, its called illusion, agreed. ys pd