Chandrashekhar / Cyril Wohrer / "Wearing Pants." 04 07 26

 

HIS REPLY:

CYRIL WOHRER to PADA:

Hey, since you called my argument, “Lame,“ then perhaps I can request you not to write to me again, since a man convinced against his will as of the same opinion still. And I don’t know how long it’s been since you’ve been to Los Angeles, but you are a little bit behind the times to say the least. All the best. Please don’t write back.

PADA: Various supporters of the Auschwitz for kids pedophile messiah's program regularly block me, since 1978. Nothing surprises me these days. I am not behind the times, Los Angeles temple still promotes Jayapataka, founder father of the Auschwitz for kids project. 

The LA temple just did a Vyasa pooja for JPS recently -- and I posted the photos. And you are claiming the Lokanath fan club's dress codes is dangerous, when the Lokanath guy you cite is promoting Lokanath, a pedophile messiah. Promoting pedophiles as messiahs is not the problem, because in their program children are found being starved, beaten and raped, and dissenters are being banned, beaten, sued and killed, pants are the problem! Told ya!

Yeah you do not have any explanation, that is fine. We will explain it for you.

 ys pd 

Chandrashekhar Cyril Wohrer, also known as Cyril Wohrer, is a public intellectual and Bhakti yoga teacher with a Master's in Religion from Oxford. He has been actively involved in discussions regarding ISKCON's adaptation to Western culture and has criticized the movement for its perceived lack of inclusivity and management practices. Wohrer has been vocal about the challenges faced by ISKCON in the West, emphasizing the need for societal adjustments to facilitate better integration and participation among its members.

PADA: This Cyril Wohrer fellow got off to a bad start with PADA when he told me "I have no idea who you are and I don't want to know." Well of course, he hangs out with Hrdayananda ilk and the other leaders of their Auschwitz for kids / homosexual and pedophile messiahs club. And he writes all the time about how we should allow people to wear pants in ISKCON -- if we want to attract people back to the society and re-populate the empty temples, which is Hrdayananda's main idea. Pants ki-jaya sir!

OK but his mentor Hrdayananda is the main person who orchestrated making the temples emptied out -- by forcing the society to worship their "illicit sex with men, women and children as acharyas" project. Hrdayandanda is also worldwide famous for helping re-instate Bhavananda as "Vishnupada" in 1986, at the same time it was well known Bhavananda was having oral sex with taxi drivers IN THE DHAM -- and he has been the main kingpin organizer of the Auschwitz for kids project especially in Mayapur. 

Hrdayananda's program simultaneously in 1986 excommunicated and demonized Sulochana (and me too de facto) which made Sulochana a target for assassination, and he was assassinated. And I too would have been assassinated by the Hrdayananda guru's fan club -- without help from the FEDS. And later I was in Los Angeles suing the Hrdayananda program for $400,000,000 while he was giving me the evil stink eye and avoiding me, and only talking to his lawyer pals all the time on Watseka. 

And they were getting the temple bouncers to follow me around and intimidate me. And that is why the LAPD police officers told me to AVOID WATSEKA, because these [Hrdayananda] people WANT TO KILL YOU. But it is all about pants, honest! 

OK their program demonizes anyone who is not promoting their homosexual and pedophile messiah's club. And they have us "dissenters" banned, beaten, sued and maybe killed -- and that chases people away in droves. And that is why the temples are empty and dissenters do not participate, they are not allowed to. Nor do they want to participate.

So a guy like Hrdayananda, whose program has to be sued for for $400,000,000 for orchestrating mass child abuse "in every nook and cranny of ISKCON" according to some victims, is now telling people the whole problem is - we do not allow people to wear pants in the temples. But there are almost no people in the temples of any stripe, either wearing pants, dhotis or any other national dress because -- the mass of people already rejected their homosexual and pedophile messiah's Auschwitz for kids program a long time ago and they jettisoned coming to ISKCON. 

OK a few Hindus might show up at the ISKCON temples on Sunday. And the Hindu men who come there mainly dress in pants for the most part. So the pants program is already accepted and allowed. But wearing pants is not -- and never was -- the issue. 

Some new age couple at the health food store said to me -- it is obvious why we can never attend ISKCON. It is self evidently a haven for criminals, pedophiles, and violent thug people. OK like Los Angeles' temple thug enforcer Ratnabushana etc. and the other pedophile messiah's enforcers -- those who support and protect the pedophile messiah's project. But none of this has caused the mass exodus from ISKCON? 

Then Chandrashekhar says Krishna Chaitanya swami is making a dangerous dress code for ISKCON, and that is the problem. OK except Krishna Chaitanya swami is always associated with, and promoting, Lokanath swami, a known pedophile who aggressed a 11 years old girl. In other words they are promoting pedophile's worship, which is not acceptable in human society. But dressing members of the pedophile messiah's project in dhotis or pants is the whole "dangerous issue." 

Sorry! No one cares if the pedophile messiah's society wear pants, dhotis or polka dot bikinis, no one wants to go there. Notice, Chandrashekhar is worried about the dangers of not wearing pants, and not the dangers of their program's worshiping pedophiles as messiahs, which subsequently bans, beats, molests, sues and kills Vaishnavas.

Many people, probably hundreds, write my blog telling me how disgusting it is that ISKCON promotes known pedophiles as its acharyas, and helps bury their previous homosexual and / or pedophile acharyas in samadhis in the holy dham -- like Kirtanananda. 

Chandrashekhar seems to have no idea, a society that worships pedophiles as God's successors will fail to attract any sane, moral, normal, rational, and civilized human beings. Then Chandrashekhar says he is going to the Svavasa Los Angeles ISKCON temple, where the founder father of the homosexual and pedophile messiah's club -- Jayapataka -- is worshiped there as acharya -- and JPS is the main leader of the Auschwitz for kids project in Mayapur. 

When Jayapataka saw me at the LA temple he angrily ran across the street towards me -- yelling and grunting like a wounded animal "raaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhrrrrrrr." He cannot even speak one word of English to explain why he is promoting his homosexuals and pedophiles as acharya's process. And Chandrashekhar also got angry with me? Instead of saying, wow, this pedophile pooja is a bad idea, they get angry at their program being exposed. And then the vulture glares -- and maybe baseball bats -- eventually come out.

JPS is the main acharya of the LA temple, and the main head honcho of Auschwitz for kids. So the leader of their anal reconstructive surgery for kids epidemic messiah's club, Jayapataka, is worshiped there are God's successor. But that is not an issue, wearing pants is the issue. 

A guy like JPS who can only yell, shout and make animal grunting noises is the acharya of the Jagat, because we challenged his illicit sex with men, women and children guru program that is also famous as Auschwitz for kids. And that is why some ex-kid victims in LA were telling me, we were abused in Mayapur and the temple here WORSHIPS the leaders of the program that abused us. OK the victims, probably in the thousands, are not worried about wearing pants or dhotis, they are gone from the society. 

One of the victims came to the Los Angeles temple, saw how his child beater and abuser Dhanurdar was being worshiped and glorified at the LA temple, and he went home and took his life. Does this victim -- or any other victim -- care if Dhanurdara is dressed in dhoti, pants, or ballet tutu dress. Nope. 

And we know of a number of other cases of victims taking their lives, and some who are suffering near fatal ailments NOW from taking drugs and abusing their health due to all the trauma. Some are in an out of hospitals etc. when they are only maybe 40-50 years old. A number of these victims now have cancer etc. 

OK! Many of them are fried, toasted, upset, angry, traumatized, they get little to no help, they are taking their own lives, or their lives are ending prematurely from the trauma now giving them fatal health issues, and all that is because -- they cannot wear pants in the temple?  

Why are they not participating in ISKCON? Is it because they have to wear a dhoti? Nope. This is a bait and switch program, we made thousands of children victims of abuse, and in a number of cases beatings and rapes, and they are not in ISKCON now -- because they want to wear pants? This is minimizing the victim's suffering. 

And when people see guys like Chandrashekhar giving these lame minimizing and apologist excuses for why the temples are emprty, it simply pours vinegar on their wounds. It is trivializing their suffering as some sort of wearing pants problem, when their society of orchestrated starving, beating, molesting and raping children, and worshiping the founder fathers of that process has been -- and still is -- the REAL problem and has been all along. Not pants! 

There is one good news where we have to give Chandrashekhar credit. He cites this:           

“This should be strictly outlawed, no more sannyasis. And those sannyasis who have fallen, you get them married, live like a... No more this showbottle, cheating. It is very ludicrous. Even there is a promise that "We shall not fall down again," that is also not believable. What is the use? Better go and speak philosophy in your grihastha dress, not this dress [saffron robes], but you have nice coat, pants, gentleman. Who says no? I never said. Rather I shall be glad to see that up-to-date gentlemen with tilaka and sikha are speaking. That is very prestigious everywhere. Why this false dress? What is the wrong to become grihastha?” (Srila Prabhupada, Room Conversation, January 7, 1977) 

"This is what we want, to preach in American dress. We should be known as 'American Krishnas.' (Satsvarupa Goswami, quoted in "Prabhupada Nectar") 

"Those who, *even while remaining situated in their established social positions,* throw away the process of speculative knowledge and with their body, words and mind offer all respects to descriptions of Your personality and activities, dedicating their lives to these narrations, which are vibrated by You personally and by Your pure devotees, certainly conquer Your Lordship, although You are otherwise unconquerable by anyone within the three worlds. (Srimad Bhagavatam 10.14.3)

PADA: Yep, we can preach dressed in pants, dhotis, ballet tutus, Santa Claus costumes, or whatever we like. But when people are "preaching" that their homosexual and pedophile messiah's club is bona fide, no one cares what those preachers are wearing. They are preaching evil and Satanic ideas, which is causing no small amount of harm to children, and is destroying ISKCON in the process. 

And this is the real reason the temples are empty. Blaming pants on this situation is acting as an apologist for the situation, it is making things worse. Yep. You and / or your peers were starved, beaten and raped, and you are no longer in ISKCON, because -- you cannot wear pants? WTF? 

This is intentional gaslighting, diluting, covering up and making a mockery of the real problem. And this is how the problem was covered up the whole time, and still is now, causing extreme peril to all the children on planet earth. 

Sulochana said -- "it does not matter how much sugar you add to the sweet rice. Once you put a piece of dog manure into the sweet rice, no one will want to take it. And worshiping homosexuals and pedophiles as acharyas is like placing dog manure in the sweet rice. Except, it is WAY worse than putting dog manure into the sweet rice, because it places children into severe danger." 

Yep, also places Sulochana in danger ...

And that is the real reason why the Hrdayananda program had to get rid of Sulochana. And for the record Sulochana was wearing pants when they killed him, because he was not wearing pants or a dhoti while promoting pedophile's worship, like this program has been doing all along since 1978, and still is now.    

ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com

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THE DILUTION OF STANDARDS IN ISKCON: The concerns raised regarding the dilution of standards in ISKCON—including dress code changes, lax temple etiquette, and deviations from established practices—highlight a significant, ongoing tension within the movement.

Many senior devotees and traditionalists share these concerns, arguing that ISKCON is drifting from the strict standards set by its founder-acharya, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. Here is a breakdown of the issues mentioned based on current discussions within the movement:

* Dress Codes (Saris and Western Clothing): While tradition emphasizes saris for women and dhotis for men to maintain a distinct, non-materialistic identity, some temples and devotees have adopted more relaxed approaches, particularly for those living outside the temple ashram. However, official guidelines maintain that saris are "spiritual uniforms" that help maintain focus, and revealing dress is considered taboo.

* Male Devotees with Long Hair/Beards: Srila Prabhupada instructed male devotees to be clean-shaven to distinguish themselves from the hippie culture of the 1960s/70s and to show detachment from bodily beauty. While some argue that keeping hair is not a barrier to internal devotion, the formal rule for residents of ISKCON temple ashrams is to be clean-shaven.

* Temple Etiquette and Behavior:Public displays of affection, such as kissing in a temple room, are generally considered inappropriate by Vaishnava etiquette, which requires the temple room to be a place of focused worship.

* "Mood of Vrindaban" and Program Changes: The "mood of Vrindaban" is sometimes invoked to justify deviations from structured programs. However, Srila Prabhupada emphasized disciplined, structured daily programs (like the Sunday Feast and early morning morning services) as the foundation for practicing bhakti-yoga.

* ISKCON and Hinduism: ISKCON is fundamentally part of the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition, which worships Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, not just a "blue boy God" of mythology.

* ISKCON presents itself as a spiritual science intended for all people regardless of birth, rather than a cultural identity restricted to Indian, regional, or caste lines.

* Demographic Shift: While early members were mostly young Western seekers, a significant portion of contemporary support—both in financial terms and temple attendance—now comes from the Indian immigrant community.

* Social Accommodation: As the movement matured, it moved away from its "rugged" fringe status toward becoming a socially accommodated organization for the middle class, resembling a traditional established religion.

* Cultural Integration: Indian devotees often bring their own cultural conditionings and broader religious perspectives, which can sometimes overshadow the specific Gaudiya Vaishnava traditions emphasized by founder Srila Prabhupada.
Debates Within the Movement

The trend toward hinduization is a point of contention among some senior devotees:

* Loss of Mission: Critics worry that focusing on the needs of the existing Hindu community (such as providing ritual services) has come at the expense of "preaching to the locals" and original outreach activities like book distribution.

* The "Hindu" Label: Srila Prabhupada often stated that Krishna Consciousness is a universal spiritual science (sanatana dharma) and not "Hinduism," which he sometimes viewed as a generic and misunderstood term.

* Western Identity: Some argue that ISKCON's primary purpose was to convert Westerners, and they view hinduization as a deviation from that original pioneering edge.

Regarding the desire to maintain the original, high standards, this point echoes the sentiment that the movement should focus on having one pure "moon" (a sincere disciple) rather than many "stars" (numerous, but less dedicated followers).

========

MISUSING THE INDEPENDENCE GIVEN AND DISOBEYING THE ORDER OF KRSNA FORCE ONE TO BECOME A VICTIM OF MAYA.

His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedantaswami Prabhupada:

So brahmādayaḥ, Brahma is ādi, ādi-kavi. He was instructed by Kṛṣṇa, tene brahma ādi-kavaye. Lord Kṛṣṇa, He instructed Brahma to spread knowledge, Vedic knowledge, all over the universe. Tene. Tene means broadcasted, expanded. So tene brahma, brahma means śabda-brahma, Vedas. Hṛda, one may question how Brahma was instructed. So that is also stated, hṛda. Hṛda means from within the heart.

So, therefore, Kṛṣṇa is also caitya-guru, a guru, spiritual master, within the heart. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭhaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says that "I am situated in everyone's heart." Sarvasya ca ahaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ. Sarvasya cāham hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). "From Me one can remember, one can forget." How is that? Kṛṣṇa helps one to remember and one helps..., He helps one to forget.

That is also replied in the Bhagavad-gītā, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). If you want to forget Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will give you facilities to forget Him forever. And if you want to remember Kṛṣṇa, He will give you facilities to remember Him.

That means Kṛṣṇa has given us little independence. Independence, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is fully independent, sva-rāṭ. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). He is fully independent.

But we are, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we have got also little independence. That quality is there. Kṛṣṇa does not touch that independence quality. You can utilize it. You can use it properly, you can misuse it also. That is independence. Kṛṣṇa does not force that "You must do this." He can give you instruction.

Just like Kṛṣṇa gives instruction, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Now it is my independence, I can give up everything, all other engagements, and I can simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And I cannot also, I may not. If I don't like, Kṛṣṇa does not interfere. Kṛṣṇa says, "Whatever you like, you do." Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). That is, Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, "Now whatever you like you do." So this independence is always there.

Now when we misuse this independence... Our relationship with Kṛṣṇa (is) to serve. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Therefore Kṛṣṇa orders, "You surrender!" Just like we sometimes order our servants or subordinates, sons, disciples, "You do this! Don't talk!" So Kṛṣṇa can order that because He is the Supreme. 

Any superior personality can order like that. But unfortunately, we misuse. We don't carry out the order of the superior.

That is misuse. So any subordinate who does not carry the order of the master, he is dangerous. He is dangerous. That is spoken by Canakya Pandita, bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ. Bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ. Bhṛtyaḥ, subordinate, servant, if he is giving reply. Cānakya Paṇḍita, you know Cāṇakya-śloka, he is a great politician as well as moral instructor. So he has said duṣṭā bhāryā, his wife is duṣṭa, polluted. Wife becomes polluted if she is attracted by somebody else more than her husband, she is called polluted. Duṣṭā bhāryā ṣaṭhaṁ mitram, and friend playing duplicity.

Duṣṭā bhāryā śaṭhaṁ mitraṁ bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ, and servant replying to the order. Master says, "You do this first!" "Sir, we have got so many business, this and that, we shall do it." Oh, that is a dangerous thing.

duṣṭā-bhāryā śaṭhaṁ mitraṁ
bhṛtyaś ca uttara-dāyakaḥ
sa-sarpe ca gṛhe vāso
mṛtyur eva na saṁśayaḥ

So these four things, unfaithful wife, a dupli..., a cheating friend, and servant disobeying order, and a snake within the room, all these things are causes or the..., will cause death at any time. At any time, they can do anything. There are many instances.

So these moral instructions are very nice given by Cānakya Paṇḍita. So all living entities who have disobeyed the order of Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), that is the principle. Every living entity must be obedient to Kṛṣṇa. But by misuse of his little independence, if he does not obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa, he immediately becomes arrested by māyā.

[Excerpt from Lecture on SB 7.9.8 -- Calcutta, March 5, 1972]

======

OH OH PILGRIMS! 

Banu Swami Destroys The Post of Guru / Nice Video from Mukunda UK 04 05 26

 

PADA: I don't even know where to start with all this Banu swami mish mash. There is a guru! He might be pure. He might only be somewhat good. He might be good and bad. He might be, according to Gaura Govinda maharaja, totally bad and be an asura. There is no longer any standard for pure devotees and gurus. 

Banu says some gurus are only giving shiksha, ok that is what the ritvik system is doing, but we are banned from ISKCON because we are not promoting asuras as our gurus? The ritviks are bogus because they only worship a pure devotee, and not the lesser class devotees, or even the asura class as gurus. And so Banu is in ISKCON Juhu, where they are spending another $20,000,000 suing the ritviks. OK not spending money on helping the abused gurukulis, or the elderly devotees in need of care etc.    

Anyway as you can see in his video, he tries to establish that there are all kinds of levels of gurus, when in fact Srila Prabhupada says only the uttama can be diksha and parampara guru. Meanwhile, us lesser gurus are being banned, beaten, sued and shot to death. Why are we being hunted? Because we say homosexuals and pedophiles cannot be gurus, nor can people voted into their system like Banu.

Banu is making it look like lesser devotees, or even asura devotees, can be considered as parampara gurus -- since 1978. It is creating nice opulent perks and benefits for the guru cabal, and hell and high water, and no small amount of their violent thugs kicking us out, for all of the rest of us. 

I was asked by a devotee in India, what should I tell the Jayapataka people when I go by their temple and they keep telling me "why not make Rupa Goswami your diksha guru"? Well because that was never ordered. But since your society ALREADY worships illicit sex with men, women and children as diksha gurus, why are you even mentioning the name of Rupa Goswami in your Vodka, LSD, oral sex, homosex, sex and sex, porno swami etc. guru process? 

Yeah, but he said -- if he tells them that, they will get angry and maybe violent. Right! They cannot argue their idea, it is always forcing people to worship their homosexual and pedophile messiah's club members. This Banu video is pretty much a good summary of their process, and this is where these Jayapataka people get their apa-siddhanta ideas of merging Rupa Goswami with Banu's illicit sex with men, women and children messiah's project. 

They juxtapose illicit sex with men, women and children gurus -- and the people voted into that pedophile messiah's parampara like Banu, with the actual parampara or people like Rupa Goswami. And in that way -- no one can actually tell what is pure, what is not, and even -- what is asura and what is not. And that keeps them able to shovel money into their pockets. 

This is all about keeping their guru business going. There is a guru, which is wonderful, except -- he might be an asura. You have to use caution when taking one of our gurus, because we take no caution in voting in these gurus. Or as Jayadvaita says, taking a GBC is like buying a used car, it might drive, it might explode and burn you to death, but we are not going to tell you which one is good and which one will explode. 

You have to take one of our gurus to participate in ISKCON, or you are out, and if we give you an exploding car, it is "your bad karma." Sheesh! ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com     

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I was listenin' to the ocean
I saw a face in the sand
But when I picked it up
Then it vanished away from my hands, da-da

I had a dream I was seven
Climbing my way in a tree
I saw a piece of heaven
Waiting impatient for me, da-da

And I was running far away
Would I run off the world someday?
Nobody knows, nobody knows

I was dancing in the rain
I felt alive and I can't complain

Lord take me home
Take me home where I belong
I can't take it anymore

I was painting a picture
The picture was a painting of you
And for a moment I thought you were here

But then again, it wasn't true, da-da
And all this time I have been lying
Oh, lying in secret to myself
I've been putting sorrow on the farthest place on my shelf
La-di-da

And I was running far away
Would I run off the world someday?
Nobody knows, nobody knows

I was dancing in the rain
I felt alive and I can't complain

Lord take me home
Take me home where I belong
I got no other place to go
Lord take me home

Take me home where I belong
I got no other place to go
Lord take me home
Take me home where I belong
I can't take it anymore

But I kept running for a soft place to fall
And I kept running for a soft place to fall
But I kept running for a soft place to fall
And I kept running for a soft place to fall
And I was running far away

Would I run off the world someday?

Lord take me home
Take me home where I belong
I got no other place to go
Lord take me home

Take me home where I belong
I got no other place to go
Lord take me home
Home where I belong
Lord, Lord
Lord take me home
Home where I belong
Home, home
Lord take me home
Home where I belong
Lord, Lord
Lord take me home
Home where I belong
I can't take it anymore

PADA: MUKUNDA UK is promoting this lady and her video i.e. "Take Me Home." Actually this is pretty sweet, and it may be a good sign he is sort of realizing fighting the Zionist bankers all his life is not helping him, or anyone else. It seems like he is having a mental meltdown after promoting Hitler as his shiksha guru for many years. 

He says we need to promote Hitler to combat the Zionist bankers who are running the world. OK except -- Srila Prabhupada orders his followers DO NOT DISCUSS HITLER. Then Mukunda's top disciple HKC Jaipur's Prahlad says -- Mukunda's promoting Hitler is great because "it gets lots of views." OK and so do Miami bikini contests get lots of views? 

Anyway, after saying the Zionist bankers have to be stopped, with no actual plan how to do that, Mukunda all of a sudden switches horses midstream. Now he says Trump is our savior because he is defending the Zionist regime's homeland. OK now he is simultaneous in favor of taking down, and helping, the homeland of the Zionist bankers. Lots of people said, he is having a mental meltdown.

OK he has officially gone more bat manure cracker pots than he was previously. But now he is sort of maybe realizing, we just have to be done with our Hitler-anuga-ness, and then all of a sudden saving the Zionists-ness, and just try to go home with Krishna. That is a good start! 

Lets hope him and his Hitler-anuga partners start to come to a higher realization, and try to go home with Krishna instead of going home to the planet where Hitler now resides. Srila Prabhupada says Hitler is an asura, going where he is now will not be pleasant, and will be a trillion yojanas from going home to Krishna. 

Anyway this video is the most inspiring thing Mukunda has ever sent us. Lets hope he is starting to realize, his Hitler ideas, and his idea that PADA should NOT help children and PADA should NOT stop children from being beaten and raped and victimized, are ideas that are not helping his spiritual life, or anyone else's. 

And Mukunda's policy of NOT having children saved from being beaten and raped is placing children in peril, which I am sure this lady in the video would never agree with. And that is why people write and tell me, the hamburger eating people are a million times more advanced than most "Krishna devotees." 

But yeah, then Prabhupadanugas EU joined Mukunda, and Mathura Pati said Mukunda is right, PADA is bogus for saving children from being beaten and raped. Yep, any hamburger eating person is more advanced than this lot. And Bhakta Peter said "there is nothing wrong" with their aiding and abetting children being abused. OK all of this is a long, long, long way away from going home with Krishna. But maybe they are waking up a little bit here, this is a hopeful sign. 

Well yup.

ys pd   

   

PADA: Oh no pilgrims, this is not looking good. Taking out all the civilian infrastructure is going to hurt -- the civilians. These Jihadi guys have their supplies in underground bunkers and tunnels, and it takes years and years of work to get to these tunnels one at a time. 

And ground troops are needed to go after the tunnels. OK like in Gaza and Lebanon. A 2010 report said taking Iran would require 1,000,000 boots on the ground. So far we have not put in any. 

Escorting ships is also not going to work because hypersonic anti-ship missiles have no good defense. OK we are in a self created mess of our own choice. So all they can say now is "we did not know this would happen." But we did know, the 2010 report said we would need 1M boots, or it won't work. Guess what? We do not have 1M spare men to go there. But swearing and cursing won't fix anything at this stage. 

ys pd   

The Problem of Guruship / Hrdayananda 04 04 26

The real problem is guruship in our society. 

The real problem is -- the gurus -- who are residents of Krishna loka. OK the biggest problem in our society is, the residents of Krishna's planet are messing up our society!  

Yup! The biggest problem is that the gurus are supposedly sannyasas who are handling a lot of money. Right, so the main problem is NOT "gurus" being engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children. Nothing to see here!

Nor are gurus drinking Vodka while having sex with half dozen disciples a big problem. Nor is all the subsequent criminal banning, beating, molesting, suing and murders -- a real problem either. As per usual, the almighty dollar is the main problem. Is the GBC's orchestrated Auschwitz for kids any kind of problem at all? Nopey! Not even honorable mention. Nothing is ever a big problem for these guys, except, money.  

OK a sannyasa is not supposed to be handling a lot of money in the first place. Why is this allowed? And he says when our GBC tried to regulate guru daksine money, we failed. Well duh, the gurus want to control all the money of the society. Money is the apparent problem, and it is causing a boatload of lust, anger and greed in our gurus, but we cannot take this money out of their grubby and greedy hands. They won't allow that. 

OK that means your committee has no enforcement program. We all know money is contaminating these gurus, but we cannot remove it from their hands. What is the use of his committee then? And why would a guru need a committee to take money out of his hands?

This is rather amazing. Prahladananda swami says that the eternal servants of Krishna -- and the maid servants of the gopis, i.e. the residents of Krishna loka no less, are having constant problems handling money, women and followers. The residents of Krishna loka are commonly falling into material illusion. If we hand over some dollar bills to a resident of Krishna loka, that resident will want to start having illicit sex with men, women and children. Who knew! 

OK that is what they said in 1980, the Mahajanas (and / or the gopis) are prone to illusion. That means Prahladananda swami wants people to think the eternal servants of Krishna are -- often as not, in maya, and are therefore engaging in illicit sex, drinking Vodka, watching porno and etc.

Then he says his committee has no role in selecting gurus, that is done by another committee. OK so all the homosexual, pedophile, and / or illicit sex with men, women and children gurus were not made by us, we are not taking any responsibility. The Devil made these gurus, my hands are clean! 

Then he says his committee's main job is to act as the ambulance brigade, and fix and repair these gurus when they tailspin out of the sky and crash. Or as Bhakti Vikas swami says, our gurus are crashing Jumbo Jets. And Prahladananda swami never thinks it might be a good idea to inspect the Jumbo Jet before it takes off, and crashes. It is not his job to do a safety check on the Jumbo Jets, it is just his job to drive an ambulance to the crash sites. 

Worse, the persons being caught over and over engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children are -- "2/3's show of hands voting in more gurus." Umm, the people who are failing as gurus left and right, are voting in more gurus? 

Worse, the GBC says that the five years old children who got a bad guru (and were beaten or molested) made the wrong choice of guru! Trivrikram swami complained all the GBC rules for gurus amounts to "ritvik de facto." Of course he had a secret female lover on the side himself, so why would he want to be monitored? And notice Prahladananda swami is hanging out with India people, because the Western people have jettisoned his illicit sex with men, women and children "residents of Krishna loka" program a long time ago. Anyway, it is amazing that they still are propping up their idea that conditioned souls who are falling down left and right, are "residents of Krishna Loka." Sorry, they are resisents of Naraka. ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com

====

PADA: Yep, one of the leaders of the ISKCON Auschwitz for kids program went to Harvard. And that is why Srila Prabhupada says -- having a PHD does not mean you wll not take rebirth as a hog on a hog farm. Hrdayananda was giving me the stink eye on Watseka when we were suing his program for $400,000,000. He promoted and defended that program. ys pd 

Hrdayananda: Reluctant Hero or Ambitious Architect of His Own Vyasasana?

Hridayananda Das Goswami narrates in the interview a story of "imposition" as a guru which, upon analysis, turns out to be unconvincing and filled with contradictions, both from his own account and the historical context of ISKCON.

The Account of "Forced Reluctance"

Hridayananda describes a dramatic picture: after Srila Prabhupada's departure in 1977, he receives a letter informing him that "you are now a guru."

He claims that he "did everything in his power not to be one," confesses to an influential spiritual brother his disinterest —"I don't want to do this"— proposes to Latin American leaders to wait "a year or two, chanting 300 rounds daily" to qualify, and even begs Balavanta das (GBC of the southeast zone) not to assume the role.

However, he gives in: in Houston, he rejects a "great throne," but the temple president —"twice my size"— gently sits him down against his will. Zonal pressures corner him: "The Gaudiya Math would ruin Latin America without me." He sounds like a reluctant martyr, dragged into being a guru by an inexorable fate.

Why It Doesn't Make Sense: Internal Contradictions

This narrative clashes with the reality of his subsequent behavior. If he was so reluctant:

Why does he accept the title "Acharyadeva" —inspired by a purport from Chaitanya Charitamrita that Prabhupada reserved for "bona fide gurus”?
Why did he allow thrones, puja, and full glorification for years, traveling globally as a zonal diksha guru until the reforms of the 80s?

In the podcast itself, he boasts about achievements: supervising 20 countries, translating Bhagavatam Canto 10-12, and being praised by Prabhupada as "transcendental brain."

He was not a humble brahman overwhelmed by the weight of the role; he was an ambitious leader —president in Gainesville and Houston, GBC of Latin America since 1974— perfectly positioned for ascent.

The "reluctance" only emerges post-facto, after zonal scandals, as a convenient justification: "I was imposed, I followed Prabhupada out of caution."

But Prabhupada ordered "do not change anything" and act as ritviks (letter July 9, 1977), not to self-proclaim as absolute parampara with their own disciples.
The Historical Context: No One "Imposed," They Decided

There was no "imposition"; it was a collective decision of the GBC in May 1978, where the eleven zonals —including Hridayananda— were officially recognized as absolute gurus, ignoring the ritvik letter as temporary (which merely organized existing practices of presidents initiating in Prabhupada's name during his lifetime).

Critical sources (like debates in ISKCON post-ritvik) document his veiled ambition. His passion for leadership (temples, books) transformed into being a guru, with "GAD" (gain, adoration, distinction) as the driving force, as Max Weber himself explains in the podcast, ironically.

His own official biography (ISKCON GBC) paints him as "appointed by Prabhupada in 1977" —this is an exaggeration, as it was a list of ritviks, not diksha successors—.

The "zonal pressure" he claims did not exist, because it was his own zone (Latin America) that he directed.

Balavanta did not "impose"; he asked, and Hridayananda accepted, installing himself on a throne despite numerous complaints from spiritual brothers who ended up leaving. Either they accepted him as a guru at Prabhupada's level or they had to leave. This repeated in all zones.

The Emotional Fallacy

This story appeals to sympathy —"poor me, forced against my will"— and attempts to dilute his responsibility.

Does a true uttama-successor need "300 rounds" to qualify, or does he embody divya-jnana by grace of the parampara?

Srila Bhaktivinoda in his Jaiva Dharma describes the guru as rasa-nishta, not a victim of politics.

He conveniently confuses open siksha with binding diksha, allowing the innocent public to see him as "vehicle to the spiritual world," while simultaneously minimizing his role.

His narrative, far from innocent, perpetuates the zonalism he criticizes in others.
We invite you to discern: are you a reluctant hero or an ambitious architect of your own vyasasana?

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-NHJFeuLjQ
Spanish version: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=26941502615455649&set=a.7722918217740710

MB: 

You see, Hrdayananda is always smiling.

PD: Hrdayananda was one of the ISKCON leaders giving me stink eye on Watseka when I was having them sued for $400,000.000. Did I forget to mention he was always surrounded by a group of ladies in front of Watseka. And he trained these ladies to also give me the stink eye. The leaders would meet out there with their lawyers -- and avoided asking me anything -- about the mistreatment problem. 

In short, they lawyered up and were giving me the Omerta code of silence. Say nothing, admit nothing. And give the whistle blowers the stink eye and silent treatment. They are hiding something, actually hiding a lot of something. But he is one of the behind the scenes operators and manipulators, that is for sure. ys pd

DH: Thank you for your courage. Obviously sweeping problems under the rug has a long term detrimental effect and it’s again spring cleaning and time to shake out the rugs.

PDA: The work that he's done behind the scenes to discredit the victims and protect his friends who abuse children physically and mentally and not to mention who are child sex offenders. He is too worried about his and his friends reputation to really see the major issues that plagues Iskcon for decades now, this good old boys club. He will always be a muppet and a clown!

AD: Why is he still being named as a Maharaja? He is no longer a Maharaja or sannyasi. It degrades things even more. It's cheating. Just use Hridayananda Dasa. bas.

PD: Because when he resigned the GBC did not accept his resignation. Dravida wrote a complaint letter to the GBC around 1980 saying he was always alone in a room with his female secretary -- who had "large tah tahs." And that is why the GBC decided he is the sum total of the demigods and a resident of Vaikuntha. They could not let him go. Brahmananda said to me that "Mustang Sally" was also hanging out at his residence all the time. They cannot afford to get rid of the inner core guys, they know too much. ys pd

SH: So Harry D was sweet on Mustang Sally with big tah tahs! If not for the fact that such behavior is a blemish on Srila Prabhupada's mission, it would be the stuff of raucous comedy, the theater of the absurd.

AD: I've met some of his disciples who have rejected him, understandably, after seeing him in serious breach of the sannyasa ashram and basic guru standards that he once upheld so enthusiastically. Would Hridayananda Das go before a physically present Srila Prabhupada in his Western attire with followers dressed like him? He would get severely rebuked for sure, and he knows it.

But post-samadhi many don't believe Srila Prabhupada is still watching all of us every day. Addressing Hridayananda as a sannyasi, guru, or maharaja just makes a mockery of having any standards and sets a very dangerous sahajiya precedent for future generations.

Nowadays, many apa-sampradayas are emerging from ISKCON and the Krishna West thing, headed by Hridayananda Das, is one of the blatantly obvious ones.
And he wants to give advice on child protection? He is not qualified to speak on any topic wherein sense control is the most important issue.

GP: Thank you penning this well written letter addressing the most important issues facing our community today, and holding people in positions of responsibility and influence to account. many of whom have got away with bad behavior for to long.

RS: Making deals with devils isn’t a recommendation for success.

RSO: This guy has always been dodgy. So many red flags around him and so arrogant. My dealings with him in the early 80s left me with an uneasy feeling. Intelligent no doubt, contribution in terms of service yes but there's something creepy about him that is so evident. I try not to criticise people like him but it's hard to keep my mouth shut. They care only about themselves and those close to them. Victims of the disgusting acts are just not considered.

LB: I will never forgive and forget his irresponsible and pompous words during a class in Mayapur in defence of Bhavananda during the 500th anniversary “If drinking coke and sun tanning on the beach in Australia can help bring Laxmi for Mayapur, then let him drink Coke and sun bake." Such a foolish man.

BB: Defended Bhavananda all along, and that is why he is still a big wheel in Mayapur.

RSO: Jeez he said that? Therein lies their motive; money and power

LB: Yes he said that . Money talks . Anyway he wasn’t removed from GBC and Guru position for drinking Coke and sun baking. Lol. He was removed for a lot more serious stuff of which the leaders tried covering up. The Coke n sun baking Lila was a way the Bhav supporters used against the critics to make it look like they are petty faultfinders. Nice try, to belittle and make a joke of the honest reformers . That’s narcissistic behaviour. 

BB: Child molesting going on full tilt under Bhavananda, and Hrdayananda was protecting.

RSO: I agree with you. Making some silly comment about Coke and sunbathing is just a way of obfuscating what was really happening. The thing that upsets me most is all of the 'leaders' at the time who obviously knew yet hid the truth from we second generation devotees. Balarama, Chitta, Pratapana, Kurma, Atmaram, Ramai...they all knew but had us worshipping him like he was a deva. I find that the hardest thing of all, including the GBC. They're all complicit in my opinion.

LB: yes your right.

ASD: complicit fully.

RSO: correct.

DPD: This man gives me the creeps!

AMD: Would it be worthwhile to post a list of who has been, and are now being accused and investigated and their alleged crimes? It would be helpful if accompanied by a photo. This way everyone is informed and we aren't just fault finding.

I view corporal punishment and child molestation two very different crimes. Both crimes but excessive use of force, I believe can be tempered, I find it's usually perpetrated by an overwhelmed individual with no training in caring for children or teaching. The other is 100%intolerable and the person in question should be removed from being anything but a regular devotee. I read these posts and still don't know who is who.

ACD: Perfectly said. So, we know there's no "evidence" at least i do, because i was one of the girls who gave testimony. Nothing with the case was mishandled.
i find it very disturbing that someone could even think about spreading lies about something so important. these lies have basically destroyed any hope of child protection in iskcon.

it's beyond disgusting what these people are doing to srila prabhupada's movement. And the children of that movement.

DDO: I really appreciate the measured tone you're using consistently now while still being sharp and pointed. It lets your clarity about the situations you're addressing sit unavoidably front and center.

Save krishna children

AD: Two other sorts of action are needed.

1. Educating devotees. In three directions at least, to start with:

(a) the consequences of abuse on spreading Krishna consciousness (i.e., destructive effects). But it will be possible only in conjunction with

(b) "Bringing devotees closer to each other", as Śrīla Prabhupāda wrote in ISKCON goals. And the bigfest obstacle in it is the unspoken and totally overlooked fact, that WE ARE LIVING IN A WORLD OF CLOSED HEARTS. Locked and steel framed. Why? As a defensive stance, to avoid being hurt by others.

(c) Boycotting the wrongdoers. Or circumventing and ignoring them, in the organizational sense.

But the most important is to counteract tbe close-heartedness issue I mentioned above. Because it is the default attitude in prezent Kaliyuga social environment. Everyone is used to it and hence no one really understands how detrimental it is. Even unnatural for Vaisnavas.

Therefore we need education in this particular point. It won't be easy -- simply because it scary at first, when we try to be openhearted, which is a vulnerable position. Luckily, I have found an exact method for quickly learning how to do it safe way.

With spectacular results!

And I must solemnly state: trying to rectify the issues under discussion here, without learning to have openhearted association between devotees will give no lasting good effects. Only quarrels, due to which so many have already become bitter and left the Movement.

Openhearted association is actually such a huge topic, that it is easier to demonstrate in practice than to explain theoretically. Like explaining honey to one who has hardly ever tasted it...

MK: Violence on the battlefield and violence in the classroom are entirely different matters!!

AN Dasi: He is not maharaj!

PC: After all we've seen in the last 50ys i hope we can leave behind the so-called 'reverence' to so-called 'authorities' or 'renunciates' and deal with each other simply as human beings with mutual respect.

So, if Hridayananda has to earn respect i hope he won't keep silence when respectfully asked to substantiate his public statements 

MK: Unfortunately, this man was one of the "original 11" "zonal acaryas" who pulled the wool over everyone's eyes in 1978, claiming that Srila Prabhupada had appointed them as full-fledged, bona-fide gurus, magically attaining uttama status overnight! After that hoax fell apart, they've been trying to keep the sham going by various means and changes to their "guru appointment" program, all with much collateral damage along the way.

He is, unfortunately, too invested in maintaining their unbonafide system, their unauthorized status and their criminal takeover of Srila Prabhupada's Society (with all its assets) than in seeing that children are protected or justice is served. He is a very good word-smith, no doubt, but using that capacity to befool the devotees is actually unforgivable. 

MA: well said 

RD Dasi: These old people still have their position in ISKCON WHAT A DISGRACE!! Leaving Iskcon & ALL of its hypocrisy was the best thing I've ever done.

Here is a copy of all letter given to me by the temple president writen by Bob Cohen ABOUT me!! Fabricating how I was sexualy abused by his employee in BOB COHENS BUSINESS as a little girl. 

None of what he wrote is TRUE!! BUT HE DID THIS TO HELP LAKSHMIMONI WITH THE HELP OF THE ABOVE LIAR.

MM: Buona fortuna con le orecchie da mercante

PD: This has always baffled me and some of the victims. The victims are often told that a person who gets a bad guru in ISKCON, and is thus mistreated, is because "they made the wrong choice of guru." Why do Jayadvaita, Hridayananda, Mahatama and others keep saying in essence -- "the five years old children did not study the shastra properly and so they selected the wrong guru. 

The victims suffered from their own bad choices." Except, the GBC votes in and selects the gurus, not the five years olds? Apart from that, five years old children are depending on the adults to make the right choices for them. Then their program started saying -- these children have bad karma. But the GBC has no karma for making bad gurus for these children? ys pd

Krishna Conscious are entirely under your control! Morning class, May 6th, 2024 HG Mahatma Das www.mahatmadas.com'

AD: Not that I really believe this thread will be the place for clear thinking about improving CPO policies and procedures, but ...

>>Because from what we have seen, the new system that replaced the previous CPO appears weaker in protecting victims; this outcome cannot be separated from the role you played in bringing it about.<<

Can anyone be specific about what there is in the current system that is weaker in protecting children? I am just asking sincerely. Rather than make this thread about what everyone likes or does not like about ISKCON and Hrdayananda Das Goswami, can we have a constructive discussion of how to improve ISKCON's CPO?

Some questions:

Is the threat of being ostracized from ISKCON really much of a deterrent to sexual predators?

Are there better preventative measures to put in place to actually prevent children *before* they become victims?

Is it important to have standards of due process that protect devotees from false accusations?

Should corrective discipline be tailored to the specific types of offenses involved?
What are everyone's specific thoughts of areas for improvement, or of what things worked better before than now?

I know the tendency on Facebook is for people to just indulge in expressing strong feelings and criticizing people and institutions, but if we can have a serious constructive discussion it would be helpful. No ad hominem arguments or accusations of ill motivations please. Just practical analysis and suggestions for how best to protect children and deal with different types of wrongdoers.

SRD: Have you been following the recent developments with regards to how the new system handled the case of Sapna? I get the sense that you haven't. I invite you to watch this podcast, it should help clarify your first question with to the concerns with the new CPO system.

With regards to your question about whether the threat of ostracization would or could be sufficient to deter a hardened child sex predator. My personal view is that it is unlikely that such a would be very effective...

But I think your question omits an important consideration.

ISKCON shouldn't ban known child sex predators simply to try and deter other potential offenders, but primarily to create a safe environment for our children.
I wouldn't want the Hare Krishna movement to be known as a place where known child sex offenders are welcome...

I think your next question is important. Are there better preventative measures?
Probably, possibly, I think this is where ISKCON as a society ought to come together and hire professionals to help us identify what would be the most effective prevention measures we can implement.

I agree that it is essential to have standards of due process that protect devotees from false allegations.

The destructive circus that HDG set up does NOT achieve this end. Again, for what it is worth, my personal view is that corrective measures ought to be individually tailored to the degree and type of offense.

At the same time, we have to acknowledge that the CPO is very limited on the scope of punishments it can impose. For the most part, all the CPO has done, even with some of the most egregious offenders, has been a suspension (temporary or permanent) of privileges.

In the context of the gravity of the criminal offense that is child abuse, this is a ridiculously mild sanction. The old system was more victim centered. The new system doesn't seem to care about the victims at all, as if they don't even exist.
It is quite shocking to see how the victim was completely erased in the illegal review of Sapna's case.

AD: "ISKCON shouldn't ban known child sex predators simply to try and deter other potential offenders, but primarily to create a safe environment for our children. I wouldn't want the Hare Krishna movement to be known as a place where known child sex offenders are welcome..."

Yes, I very much agree. I think people who are actually pedophiles need to be immediately barred from ISKCON temples, even before the investigation is complete.

I will watch the podcast. I tend to be a little skeptical until I hear from both sides, because this issue is fraught with so much emotion. I know nothing about Sapna's case or even who Sapna is.

I also have not made an extensive study of Laxmimoni's case, but I have heard from reliable sources that although she was a mean teacher she was not a sexual predator. Of course, my sources could be wrong, but they said there was kind of a lynch mob mentality that influenced the case, where second generation students pressured their fellows to get the maximum sentence possible against her. What some people have said is, her scratching due to a physical condition was misconstrued as a sexual act, and that no one came forward with any claim that she approached them or groomed them for sexual conduct when they were a child (or even any adult).

But again, these cases have to be investigated in a responsible manner, and I was not involved in any way with the investigation.

Even being a mean teacher should require some suspension and requirement of training and genuine indication of understanding her mistakes, but a lifetime ban from temples is way too severe if that is all she really did.

>>The old system was more victim centered. The new system doesn't seem to care about the victims at all, as if they don't even exist.<<

Again, can you be more specific? It is understandable that victims want retributive justice and perhaps some compensation from the perpetrator. There ought to be a kind of sentencing guideline and a mature consideration of the nature of the wrong alleged and the circumstances of the case. Not every case is a case of sexual misconduct or even severe misconduct.

I do believe that in ISKCON's internal handling of these cases, the spiritual lives of the alleged perpetrators of milder misconduct should be considered, as well as whether they have reformed and the interests of ISKCON in their continued contribution to ISKCON's mission.

Remember, anyone who has a case that can be prosecuted in criminal or civil secular courts is encouraged to do so. The CPO is dealing primarily with cases that would be dismissed if brought in a secular court.

SRD: You say that you tend to be a little skeptical until you've heard both sides, in reference to Sapna's case, but then in the next paragraph you go on to share the very biased, one sided, version of Laxmimoni's advocates, that you describe as 'very reliable'. Where is your healthy skepticism here???
In her case, it doesn't appear that you have taken the trouble to listen to the other side...

Laxmimoni did not receive a lifetime ban from anything, except perhaps working with children.

She received a temporary suspension from the most lavish privileges available to senior ISKCON devotees. That's it!

Victim centered doesn't mean that the CPO does what the victims want.
It means that the CPO consults, informs and takes into account how their decisions will affect the victims.

Whereas the new system doesn't appear to be very concerned with the welfare or interests of the victims

If you watch the podcast about Sapna, you will have a better understanding of what I'm talking about.

I agree that the spiritual life of some minor offenders ought to be taken into account.

I don't agree that this should be a central focus for the CPO. And I certainly do not think that the interests of the perpetrators or the political interests of ISKCON should have priority over the interests of their victims.

Even when these perpetrators offer substantial contributions to the ISKCON.

=======

OIL CRISIS IS AN EVERYTHING CRISIS

PADA: Yep, we are super dependent on oil, and it is hard to see that until -- the supply is messed up. Someone said that when the USA says -- closing Hormuz is the hard part, now the rest of the world can open it up -- and do the easy part. That is 100% opposite of reality. Closing it is the easy part, opening it will be hard. And that is why we have not done it. 

Similar to when USA said NATO should escort ships. OK a ship going 3MPH is slower than a turtle and is an easy target for all sorts of projectiles, which is why, we took our ships out of there. We are giving advice, but not following it ourself. ys pd  

The global oil crisis is turning into an everything crisis

ISKCON Files VIDEO / Kailasha Chandra Parrot vs PADA 04 03 26

JAYAPATAKA BIRTHDAY CELEBRATION

Wow, maybe couple dozen people turned up at Los Angeles.

This temple used to have hundreds of people packing it out.

Then they decided to promote the worship of the leader of Auschwitz for Kids -- Jayapataka. And now it is a ghost town. Told ya!

KAILASHA CHANDRA PARROT VS PADA

ERIC JOHANSON: Pranams, Jaya Srila Prabhupada! My article was a challenge to your group's silly way of thinking. Rather than attempt to refute it you made some lame excuse not to read it and then went on with your usual internet bullying. If rittvik really is superior why can't you demonstrate it with philosophy? You mischaracterize what I think and then proceed to attack the straw man you have imagined. Besides I knew you in the early 80'sand you weren't known in Berkeley for preaching that Srila Prabhupada was still initiating. 

The first time I heard you preaching that was when we wrote in the 90's. Unfortunately kali yuga has progressed that many more years and you have fallen into an all too typical 21st century hole - that of rittvik's unofficial social media troll. You sit all day mightily behind your keyboard and smite any who dare to speak ill of your fanatically espoused sectarian cause. All foes are Krishna's enemies who are hardly worthy of even a hint of truth or courtesy or respect. They clearly aren't devotees. 

No doubt all your rudeness and lying or half-truths and putting words in other's mouths are all "worship of the pure devotee." I hate to point the obvious out, but these are the same techniques that are used in political party attack ads and on so-called news networks - pure politics. The idea is that if you can't prove you're position is superior then at least make your critics look worse. If spreading your example is making others Krishna consciousness I would rather go out in the woods. I write because Srila Prabhupada and Krishna put this stuff in my head and I am duty bound to tell others those truths. Let's see how you can mischaracterize this. ys, be

PADA: You have already wrote many articles, mainly about us. That means you are meditating on us and not making others into devotees, which we are doing. The goal of a devotee is to make others into devotees, and not join the GBC stopping our programs that are making Prabhupada's devotees. Now you are saying worshiping a pure devotee is sectarian, in addition to it being mundane politics. 

That means you think worship of a pure devotee is mundane. Which is a good admission on your part, that is what we thought you wanted to say -- and the truth finally emerges. We are demonstrating the philosophy, we are making others into devotees of a pure devotee. Now you are saying we have to prove the worship of a pure devotee is a good idea, because everyone is not worshiping who? Kailasa, the Madhyam messiah? 

Wow, we have to prove that worship of a pure devotee is bona fide and not politics. Yep, the truth is that worship of a pure devotee is mundane politics, that is also called atheist idea. We are also printing the books and giving the words of a pure devotee to people, and you think that is giving people mundane and political information. 

Again, atheist idea. We do not have to prove that worship of a pure devotee is bona fide, since that is the entire basis of the Krishna religion. I do not have to mischaracterize anything, you already admit there is no proof we should get people to worship a pure devotee, because you want them to stay here and rot in the material world and not be connected to Krishna. And now you are saying our making people connect to a pure devotee is mundane, that is what you should have said at the start. ys pd

ERIC JOHANSON: Just more trolling. btw - I've recently come to the conclusion that you and Kailasa actually are very similar in the way I have been writing here. ys, be

PADA: Yes Kailasa is infuriated when he sees people are worshiping a pure devotee, he says worshiping a pure devotee is mundane politics, and you are his sock puppet. We got that already. You cannot even come up with a new angle, you have to repeat his arguments. ys pd

ERIC JOHANSON: Prabhu, Pranams, Jaya Srila Prabhupada! I hate to tell you this but what you call "waiting for Jesus" is actually our parampara standard. It's why we have some big gaps between acaryas after Mahaprabhu. Gaudiya devotees did not create a rittvik system where Srila Rupa Goswami or even Mahaprabhu initiated after their departure. ys, be

PADA: OK so in 100 years you guys will still be waiting for Jesus to return. And meanwhile we will have thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of of people already worshiping Jesus. And by then we will have printed millions of books, made many more temples and so on. 

All glories to the non-existing, alleged, hopefully in future, maybe, speculative, soon to come or not come, possible, potential successor. He might come maybe. Srila Prabhupada says as soon as someone says "maybe," he is speculating and gambling, which is against our principles. Srila Prabhupada placed his murtis in his temples for his worship now. He never said wait for the next Jesus. 

There has already been many Christian preachers who said Jesus is coming next week, next year, etc. and they are all frauds because they have no way of making Jesus appear. Srila Prabhupada says -- Krishna makes the acharyas descend and appear, and this process is not made by us mere mortals on the mundane platform. We conditioned souls cannot order an acharya to appear. But yeah, when there is a gap worship the last acharya link in the chain, that is correct. Yes, when there is a gap, worship the last link, you got it. ys pd

Mahatma's Forgiving / Women Gurus / GGM / Alex Had Enough 03 31 26

WOMEN GURUS

PADA: Yes, there are a bunch of ladies out there who are complaining they have not been able to take karma like this guy. Why don't I take karma so I can look like this guy? Well maybe you should look like this guy, that would be a good lesson. 

March 28, 1975: “We are servant of [the] servant. That is Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s instruction. The more you become servant of the servant, the more you are perfect. And if you all of a sudden want to become master, then you go to hell. That’s all.” ys pd

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Srila Gour Govinda Mahārāja has stated many times, “There are three things that are very important to me.

- One is that I want to preach to the preachers. It causes me so much pain to see the devotees falling down and going away.

PADA: Yes, but GGM has declared that the "gurus" who are forcing the devotees go away -- and leave ISKCON -- are Krishna's acharyas, successors and gurus. GGM is supporting the people who are making the mass exodus -- claiming they are acharyas. 

As soon as Gaura Govinda maharaja finds a nice program that is banning, beating, molesting, suing and killing Vaishnavas, he thinks he has found the residents of Vaikuntha gurus of the jagat.   

- The second point is that I want to show how everything is in Śrīla Prabhupāda’s books. Those persons who are saying that Śrīla Prabhupāda only gave ABC, cause me so much pain in my heart, thus I want to make them silent.

PADA: Make who silent? GGM supported the GBC people who lead everyone over to the rasika express train of Sridhara Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja. GGM is promoting the GBC rasika-ness people, then complaining about the rasika infiltration.   

- The third thing is that I want to show how all the tattvas, higher teachings, are in ISKCON, so there is no need to go anywhere else.”

PADA: But GGM cites all kinds of alleged shastra to prove that Back to Godhead is bogus because we were never with Godhead. He is the person trying to change the tattvas. 

Harivilas dās: What happens when the guru leaves this world?

Gour Govinda Swami: Guru means a pure devotee vaiṣṇava. Guru means a very, very intimate associate of Lord Krishna. Then, he is a real guru, a bona fide spiritual master. His instructions are of course there. Nevertheless, there is vapu rūpa and vāṇī rūpa. When he is physically present, that is his presence is manifested here below. But in aprakaṭa līlā, when he physically disappears, at that time one should not think that guru is not there. He is always present, as Krishna is always present. If you have the eyes to see, you can see Krishna and you can see Sri Guru!

Vanisanga – Quotes from Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami
Darshan in Maisons-Alfort, France - July 18, 1986

PADA: But the pure devotee cannot be worshiped now because we need to worship the living lips GBC people. And they are engaged in illicit affairs left, right and center. ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com


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Well duh, that is why we are pulling our ships out.

And then telling NATO to bring their ships in.

We want them to lose their ships. Right!

These people seem to have no strategy here, except

lots of vociferous rhetoric.

ALEX JONES HAS HAD ENOUGH

On Tuesday, longtime MAGA pundit Alex Jones had some hard words for supporters of President Donald Trump: “He’s gone, and that’s it.” While Jones has been an avid Trump backer since his first campaign for office, he now says that the president’s health, polls, and actions in Iran make him unfit for leadership.

Following news that Trump’s approval rating has sunk to a career low, Jones asserted that the numbers don’t bode well for MAGA’s upcoming electoral chances, saying, “Trump is in freefall, and that means we’re in freefall in the midterms.”

According to Jones, Trump’s health is a major issue. The president’s massively swollen ankles, Jones said, are a sign of “heart failure. And he does look sick. And he does babble and sound like the brain’s not doing too hot.”

These health problems, guessed Jones, may be contributing to Trump’s erratic decision-making in regard to the war in Iran, which in turn reflects poorly on the wider MAGA movement.

“We have to say too bad. Trump’s run off the edge of a cliff, and I don’t think he’s coming back from it,” said Jones. “Triage him, isolate him, and explain that we’re not him and we’re morally against this blowing up of Iranian water supplies he’s talking about. War crime any way you cut it. Put pressure on him not to do that, and just continue on the moral, proper way to behave.”

Related video: Pathological liar, incompetent, deeply corrupt: Ex-CIA director blasts Trump as protests grow (MS NOW)

Jones has expressed displeasure with the war previously, pointing out in early March how it conflicted with the messaging that landed Trump a second term.

"This is supposed to be America First," Jones said at the time. "We’re not supposed to be running around doing this anymore.” What’s more, Jones suggested he’s not the only Trump ally to notice a problem, saying, “You can see Hegseth and the press secretary freaking out. They’re just being loyal. They think it’s the lesser of two evils, ok, but Trump needs an intervention. He needs to take some time off.”

Jones’s advice to his fellow MAGAs is simple: it’s time to move on. “We cut bait on Trump and we mobilize against the democrats,” said Jones. “Trump is just a minor figure.”

PADA: Saw some interesting comments. Someone was asking, "We need to get to the bottom of this! Who actually influenced and caused our government to make the ill advised Iran invasion war. And we need to find the people responsible for the collapse of the world economy and causing great harm to the USA in the process. And we need to hold them to account for their disastrous bad advice." 

And the answer was, "You don't know who caused this? Everyone who voted for MAGA. That is who! They are the people who caused all of this, because they all voted for this. And they are 100% responsible. I hope they all go and look into a mirror when they want to know 'who' the people responsible for all this mayhem are. It is they ... themselves." 

Hee hee.  

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MAHATMA SQEAKS UP

[…] ~*Mahatma Das: - When devotees tell me that so and so hurt me so deeply that they just can’t forgive them, at least not completely, I say, “Okay, how about forgiving them totally just for one day and see how you feel – see how that helps you.

If the resentment is so deep that you don’t even think you can do that, then how about forgiving them totally for an hour, or even for one minute – just to get some relief from this pain. That will hopefully inspire you to continue with forgiveness. Remember, no thought lives in your mind rent-free. […]
{ https://mahatmadas.com/choosing-forgivness/ }

Learn to Forgive

Choosing to Forgive - Mahatma Das

PADA: Oh oh, here we go again. When I am in Los Angeles having his program sued for $400,000,000, these guys are standing around with their lawyers and giving me the stink eye. Even the Los Angeles LAPD constables are telling me to avoid Watseka if I value living. 

"Well why not report things prabhu"? Ummm, because we will be banned, beaten, sued and killed and -- chased out of ISKCON and then hunted like dogs to be placed into the cemetary. Duh! And then given lots of stink eye! Honestly! We cannot make this up! Sorry! Those of us making reports are the first people to get the axe. Jayapataka kicked me out, and then yelled at me like a wild animal when I was suing him. These guys do not listen to our complaints.

ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com

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ILLUSION HAS CHEATED ME

My lord, surely I have been solidly cheated by the insurmountable illusory energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for in spite of having obtained your association, which gives liberation from material bondage, I did not seek such liberation.

PURPORT

An intelligent man should utilize good opportunities. The first opportunity is the human form of life, and the second opportunity is to take birth in a suitable family where there is cultivation of spiritual knowledge; this is rarely obtained. The greatest opportunity is to have the association of a saintly person. Devahūti was conscious that she was born as the daughter of an emperor. 

She was sufficiently educated and cultured, and at last she got Kardama Muni, a saintly person and a great yogī, as her husband. Still, if she did not get liberation from the entanglement of material energy, then certainly she would be cheated by the insurmountable illusory energy. Actually, the illusory, material energy is cheating everyone. 

People do not know what they are doing when they worship the material energy in the form of goddess Kālī or Durgā for material boons. They ask, "Mother, give me great riches, give me a good wife, give me fame, give me victory." But such devotees of the goddess Māyā, or Durgā, do not know that they are being cheated by that goddess. 

Material achievement is actually no achievement because as soon as one is illusioned by the material gifts, he becomes more and more entangled, and there is no question of liberation. One should be intelligent enough to know how to utilize material assets for the purpose of spiritual realization. 

That is called karma-yoga or jñāna-yoga. Whatever we have we should use as service to the Supreme Person. It is advised in Bhagavad-gītā sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya: (BG 18.46) one should try to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead by one's assets. There are many forms of service to the Supreme Lord, and anyone can render service unto Him according to the best of his ability. - Srimad-Bhagavatam - Third Canto - Chapter 23: Devahūti's Lamentation - Verse 57