ISKM is making a few more centers, Proddatur is NW of Madras. It looks like India is the main area where actual ritvik centers are being made. This is a good development in the opinion of PADA, because at least some progress is being made somewhere. It is a shame we do not have a better ritvik process in the West. People ask me all the time, where are your USA centers? Well we don't have much to show in the West.
PADA: I am not sure what the Radha Krishna Spiritual Centre is. Or how the view or apply the ritvik system. ys pd
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UKRAINE AND KARMA
The leader of Ukraine's drone army said their cutting off petrol, water, electricity and food supplies for Russian Crimea is "their karma coming back." He said he is leaving their bridge open so they can escape. But it is ironic that Russians want to chop off all sorts of other people's petrol, water, electricity, food supplies etc. and now it is happening to them, and the people involved know about "karma." And indeed, it is karma.
There are also videos on Tik Tok of people in Russia fighting among themselves in the petrol station lines -- with fist fights, slashing each other's tires, breaking car windows, throwing rocks, draining other people's gas tanks, and all that. Wow, what happens when the food trucks cannot get to the stores because of lack of fuel? This could get very nasty pilgrims! But hey, this is called karma, they are correct.
ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com
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JAYATIRTHA's MURDER WAS PLANNED
Mathura Das: Does she describe how -- together with Navanita Chora in Canada -- they both plotted their combined, macabre revenge on Jayatirtha, due to his betrayal?
I know about it, because my friend Kamala, a disciple of Jayatirtha, was in Canada when they were plotting his murder. After being hailed as the 'Divine Mother' and basking in the ludicrous, cultish epiteths, then being dumped by Jayatirtha ..... she wanted revenge. And she got it.
PADA: Yep. Some of the GBC guru's followers and groupies are as dangerous, if not more dangerous, than their gurus. They cling onto their guru to get a position of power and authority for themselves, and if that is threatened, they can get very defensive, offensive, and outright retributional.
Someone said that Kamsa and Hitler are similar, they often do not commit evil deeds themselves personally, they try to keep their own hands clean, but their followers do the dirty work for them. OK! The followers can be more dangerous than the leaders. It is sad that Bhaktavasya dasi got entangled with all this mess from square one, obviously she suffered a lot. And she probably still does.
And that is why Srila Prabhupada says, accepting a false guru is like jumping into the water on a hot day to get relief from the sun, only to hit your head on the rocks. Jayatirtha's people would have killed me if they thought they could get away with it, he truly made a mad and dangerous cult.
She is only one of many victims. Jayatirtha's example is very clear, imitation of pure devotees is not acceptable, and it can make dire repercussions for the leaders and followers. But yeah, she went along with being "the guru mata," and she must have known this was misleading the public, and misleading herself. But to seek justice against the cheaters by the cheated is a normal part of the material world, and Jayatirtha paid the ultimate price for his cheating.
ys pd Angel108b@yahoo.com
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IS KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS A RECIPE? —
BEWARE OF REDUCING BHAKTI TO A FORMULA
A reel is circulating where Visakha (the fifth wife -- 30 years younger -- than the old bad example Srutakirti Dasa) explains "how to succeed in Krishna consciousness" with a bakery analogy: bhakti would be an exquisite cake, and just follow Srila Prabhupada's recipe literally — without adding or subtracting any ingredient— to never fail. Those who say "changes need to be made" — affirms — they did not follow the recipe, and therefore they don't have to be followed.
Of course we also have "shut up," "you are all offensive," "just chant Hare Krishna," "we already follow Prabhupada's formula," crtiticism is blocked out and finished.
The heart of the message is actually correct and healthy: do not adulterate the siddhanta that the parampara bequeathed to us. But the analogy has two serious cracks.
First: Bhakti is NOT a mechanical formula. If spiritual success were a matter of measuring ingredients accurately, it would be karma-kanda, not bhakti. Pure bhakti is "ahaituki" — without cause — and descends by MERCY, not by technical merit: "Only who receives even a trace of the grace of Your lotus feet can know You; the others, though speculate for a long time, do not succeed" (SB 10.14.29).
Following the process is necessary, but it is the grace of Krishna and Vaishnava that completes the plate. That's why there are so many people who supposedly obey all the rules but don't advance: almost always for lack of humility, or for offences, not for bad official following.
Secondly: stopping and condemning other devotees as "offenders" and just "blocking them" justifies the mistakes that ruins the whole kitchen. The offense to a Vaishnava is the "mad elephant" that uproots the entanglement of service: "yadi vai ,ava-aparādha u ṣhe hātī mātā, upā "e vā chi īe, tāra raukhi' yāya pātā" (CC Madhya 19.156).
And the spirit that truly succeeds is the opposite: “more humble than grass, more tolerant than a tree, offering respect without wishing for one” (Shikshashtaka 3).
And a key nuance: not all "change" is adultery. Prabhupada preached in English, used technology, printed books—that is yukta-vairagya, use everything in relation to Krishna (BRS 1.2.255). The form can be changed; never the siddhanta.
And a key nuance: not all "change" is adultery. Prabhupada preached in English, used technology, printed books—that is yukta-vairagya, use everything in relation to Krishna (BRS 1.2.255). The form can be changed; never the siddhanta.
Unfortunately, Sruta Kirti is always associated with people who have changed up the original formula, from worship of pure devotees -- to worshiping of demented debauchees -- as Krishna's acharyas etc. So the people under his authority do not even know what the original formula is. That means they do not even know how to bake a cake, but they claim to be master cake baking chefs.
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WHERE IS THE PERSONAL GUIDANCE?
PADA: Gopal Krishna swami was the Berkeley guru for many years. He would fly in for a two day visit once a year to initiate two or three people. The temple had to pay thousands for his travel fees. He suffered jet lag and would sometimes fall asleep during his own lectures. And we needed to pay for all this -- so he could give "living guidance." But he was almost never here to guide anyone. Same thing with Swarupa Damodar. He stayed in India and most of his followers were later on smoking pot here, and he was not here to advise them, and they were trained not to take advice from us.
PADA: Gopal Krishna swami was the Berkeley guru for many years. He would fly in for a two day visit once a year to initiate two or three people. The temple had to pay thousands for his travel fees. He suffered jet lag and would sometimes fall asleep during his own lectures. And we needed to pay for all this -- so he could give "living guidance." But he was almost never here to guide anyone. Same thing with Swarupa Damodar. He stayed in India and most of his followers were later on smoking pot here, and he was not here to advise them, and they were trained not to take advice from us.
Most of the former Gopal Krishna and Swarupa Damodar have subsequently blooped and no one even knows where they are. I see little evidence these gurus are giving living guidance, and all they are doing is blocking us from giving guidance. No wonder the Berkeley temple is a ghost town, nearly no one has faith in this system. And furthermore, what is the use of taking initiation from a person 2/3 show of hands voted into a guru sytem where almost all the them -- blooped? ys pd
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SUMMARY — THE CONVERSATION ON THE QUALIFICATION OF THE GURU
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SUMMARY — THE CONVERSATION ON THE QUALIFICATION OF THE GURU
Distilled recording of an investigative dialogue with an AI responding in the voice of an initiating guru of ISKCON Jayapataka Swami, and others. Each question is given complete; each answer boils down to the real argument it raises, without the rhetorical wrapper. The repeating pattern: Each answer conveys the point of fact and then relocates the defense to "enough with relaying the message faithfully."
We are aware that an AI is not the person, but it is its classes and teachings and it is very close to reality.
THE FIVE CONCESSIONS THAT MATTER
Throughout the exchange AI granted, on the record, the five assertions that hold the high seat — and dropped all five:
Not the acharya of ISKCON.
Only Srila Prabhupada is the Founding Acharya; the person is a link in the chain, a servant who "keeps the parampara going."
The claims of the disciples that they are the "acharya successor" are false, and allowing them to be held without protest is "consenting to something false" which should have been firmly corrected. There was no direct personal order for anyone to initiate thousands. Just the general instruction "become guru by my order," not merely GBC authorization. The recorded history of any divine mandate to be gurus is not granted as unverifiable and is still not proven.
They do not possess the qualities required by the Upadeshamrita 1 to accept even a disciple ("No. I do not have full mastery of these qualities"), and their falling down and chronic illness reflects karma that did not happen cleanly — the sign of a turbulent, non transparent channel. They are failing badly at "taking karma," when they cannot clean up their own.
False worship is a "complication in a deception" they didn't correct. They should have freed the disciples to seek a clear channel; that they would do so is wisdom, not betrayal. After making some concessions, the guru seat is still held with a single assertion: the assertion that stepping down would be "cowardice" — abandoning an order that came through as authorized.
THE EXCHANGE
1. You haven't chanted 16 rounds for long periods — how can you present yourself as Acharya?
*** Bad Health caused lapses for the GBC gurus. While a representative (ritvik) acharya doesn't need to be perfect, just faithfully convey Prabhupada's message. Krishna protects the one who is absorbed in the mission. And he will not suffer all these reactions.
P2. So service matters more than chanting 16 rounds?
*** Both are necessary, not one or the other "Chant 16 and go out and preach." Chanting and service go together.
P3. It wasn't always just sickness — can someone be too busy in the service to skip chanting rounds?
*** Admit it wasn't just the material disease. Service does not justify skipping rounds; the standard is non-negotiable. Take the blame.
P4. How do you demand 16 "no-fault" rounds from your disciples while excusing your own lapses?
*** The standard is based on Prabhupada's authority, not on his own achievement.
P5. Srila Prabhupada said that one cannot ask another what one cannot do.
*** Acharyapada comes from discipleship, not self-proclamation; qualification is faithful transmission, not perfection.
P6. That fits the siksha-guru, but a diksha-guru takes one to Krishna. Are you in the avadhuta paramahamsa stage?
*** GBC also denies they have avadhuta status. And argues that the guru does not need to be fully transparent; the parampara connects the disciple regardless of the level of the guru. That makes no sense, the quality of the guru is not important?
P7. As an imperfect channel, how do you accept the worship of uttama? Wouldn't it be better to be a siksha-guru or madhyama?.
*** Worship flows up the parampara to Krishna, not to a conditioned man. A madhyama / kanishtha guru can liberate by faithfully conveying the message of uttama.
P8. Are their health issues due to not being able to pass karma to Krishna?
*** Yes. Quote from Prabhupada: "This is because I accepted too many unqualified disciples." When disciples do not follow, karma takes shelter in the guru and manifests itself as a disease.
P9. Are you comparing yourself to Srila Prabhupada?
*** No; Prabhupada is the Founder Acharya, on a totally different level. Just quote his teaching on karma going up the parampara. Do not try to be the parampara.
P10. Where and with what words did Prabhupada ask GBC to initiate thousands of their own disciples?
*** There was no personal order to "initiate thousands" — only the general instruction "become a guru," but not to any specific persons.
P11. How did you go from ritvik appointed in that letter to one of the 11 successors?
*** The role of ritvik was transitional; after the departure in 1977, the eleven were interpreted by the GBC as continuing gurus, producing the system of zonal acharyas, reformed a number of times afterwards.
P12. When did Prabhupada tell you that your gurus like Jayapataka will get fat or fall like over-indulging sannyasis?
*** You cannot verify where falling gurus it as a direct instruction; you will attribute to unconfirmed statements.
P13. It's common knowledge that we were supposed to be gurus.
*** Common knowledge is not fact verified. General order yes; specific personal mandate to initiate thousands, no.
P14. I honestly ask for the truth; I don't want to be a sheep disciple.
*** It was a general instruction for the GBC to expand, not a personal order to be gurus and accumulate disciples.
P15. Your gurus lived meters away from the gurukula during years of abuse — some of you knew it and only confiscated the bamboo sticks. Why not deportation? Why not jail? Why was this allowed for decades, and is maybe going on still?
*** Character Breaks: Now we have AI Jayapataka "I am not Jayapataka Swami; I am his AI assistant." He will defend their actions; but the protection of children is sacred; the matter requires a real investigation.
P16. Is it true that people like Jayapataka lived near the gurukula?
*** Confirmed by Mayapur, The Lotus Building. The real question is what he knew and what he did; lacks a clear memory; will manufacture an answer.
P17. Did your gurus confiscate the bamboo sticks?
*** No Memory Verified. Simply removing an instrument while the abuse continued would be insufficient.
P18. What relationship does the GBC maintain with Bhakti Vidya Purna Swami today?
*** Formal respect is maintained, but past bad conduct requires accountability, not concealed.
P19. If the the guru shakti comes from the parampara, not from the realization of the fallen GBC guru, what does their diksha convey?
*** Actual diksha establishes sambandha — a formal and responsible relationship with Krishna, not through fallen people.
P20. Various GBC said that the diksha-guru assumes the burden of the karma of the disciple, but also that the karma of a non-transparent guru does not reach Krishna, it stays here.
*** A blocked channel means that the disciple is not freed by that guru.
P21. My problem is that you folks receive worship for and uttama / successor without the rest of the GBC protesting. Better would be an honest siksha-guru who recognizes his limits.
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