PADA: Wow! We are really on the minds of people like Rocana, and similar ilk folks (such as the GBC's clones). They are constantly trying to find personal faults with the Prabhupadanugas / ritviks. Oh forsooth, some of the "Prabhupadanugas" are falling down, watching football, smoking cigarettes, maybe smoking dope, maybe selling dope too. Some have been gay, and some even died of AIDS. One was caught chasing prostitutes at the San Francisco wharf. Some of them were arrested and put in jail for various and sundry crimes.
Some of them have been drinking beer, eating frosted cakes and other products with eggs, going to Starbucks for coffee mocha-lattes, some died from alcohol poison, some are taking heroin, and some even died of overdose of these types of drugs. Some of them (more forsooth!) worship Lord Jesus by celebrating Christmas (not so sure why this is such a crime)? Some of them are not keeping the proper standards, etc.
Yep, the list here is endless! Except? Heard it all before, ooops, starting way back in the 1970s. Yes, as a matter of fact, many of these same deviations were going on all throughout the 1970s -- even when Srila Prabhupada was here. Devotees (and leaders) were falling down on a regular basis, and falling into illicit sex, drugs, crimes, sometimes even murders, etc. This was well known at the time. What does any of this have to do with the question: whether or not the acharyas are pure? OK nothing at all, its another of Rocana's spin doctor program.
If we read any Western history (and / or current USA newspapers) anywhere, we'll find that both at the present time -- and for past previous centuries -- many "Christians" have all these same problems as well, including burning witches, slavery, badly behaving priests, exploiting women and children, criminal activities, and so on, happening every day, day in and day out for centuries. In point of fact, USA jails are chock full of these guys. These things happen all the time among religious neophytes. And such neophytes have been having all these same problems going on now for centuries.
If we actually read the Bible, we'll find in the "Letters to the Corinthians," that some of the first wave of Christians were admonished for being some sort of "party animals" and "behaving far worse than the ordinary common people." The first wave of Hare Krishnas have not done much better. Fine, agreed, but that has nothing to do with the issue we are discussing with Rocana and his ilk. They keep side stepping the actual point of contention: we don't agree with the GBC -- Mayesvara -- Rocana -- Gaudiya Matha idea that acharyas are the persons falling into the above mentioned deviations. All these folks keep avoiding the actual question at hand, why are they saying acharyas are the ones falling into all these deviations?
The point we are discussing is not the fact that neophytes can and often do deviate -- fall down, in fact we have known that since we were five years old. Yep! Its a FACT: neophytes tend to fall down and fail. Got it already! What we are discussing is not that issue at all, rather its the fact that Rocana and his pals like Mayesvara are still promoting the GBC's guru program, and their idea that acharyas may and sometimes do fail in all these forms of deviations.
In sum, in their program, they say that gurus, saints, God's successors, parampara members and ACHARYAS etc. are often falling into -- all of the deviations listed above. The Rocana -- Mayesvara -- GBC team are juxtaposing all these failures listed above with the SUCCESSORS TO GOD. That is the real point they never seem to comprehend? They keep arguing that neophytes tend to deviate and fall down, something maybe every Christian five year old child in the USA knows already, ... because they may have seen their uncle Harry get drunk at the Christmas party or etc.?
Most ordinary children ALREADY know that the rank and file Christians fall and stumble from time to time, even at an early age. Rocana seems to think he has discovered some amazing little known fact, that neophytes take tumbles on a regular basis, something even most five years old children know already?
OK! No one else is even arguing about this, we all ALREADY accept that neophytes fail. Got it. That is not the issue we have been discussing since 1978? Rocana keeps avoiding the actual topic at hand. Yes, agreed, the neophytes have problems. Yes that means the post-1977 Prabhupadanugas have had problems. And yet what Rocana seems to be oblivious to is, -- the followers of Srila Prabhupada have had these same problems all along since the start, at the get go, in the 1960s. And for that matter, many Christians have had the same problems all along, and yes, for that matter many Hindus have had similar problems, we got that already. That has nothing to do with what we are discussing since 1978, that the acharyas do not have these problems?
What we are discussing is the fact that -- while Srila Prabhupada was here -- and up to the present day -- NONE of the SINCERE Prabhupadanugas has been saying what the GBC -- Rocana -- Mayesvara -- Gaudiya Matha team has been saying, that acharyas -- are -- were -- could have been -- "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children," as we find in the Rocana -- Mayesvara -- GBC's -- Gaudiya Matha's program's apa-siddhanta. Also notice! NONE of the SINCERE Christians, despite some of them being very fallen personally, believe that pure devotee like Jesus either are -- were -- or they become -- debauchees.
Rocana just keeps playing the same recording over and over and over, ohhh booo freakin hooo, the neophytes are failing. Duh! Everyone knew that when we joined in 1970, the big leaders were falling left, right and center. The rank and file were failing, left, right and center. We all knew that in 1970? That has nothing to do with the apa-siddhanta being promoted by Rocana and his ilk, that it is THE ACHARYAS who are falling down left, right and center.
The only good news is that Rocana eventually figured out his post-1977 bogus gurus that he was supporting, were not working properly. And so, after Rocana started his Dr. Frankenstein's project of making a pile of bogus gurus, he decided in 1986 that he had to "fix and repair" his broken down acharyas so he launched his bogus "guru reform."
Yep, Rocana actually thought he could control and fix his broken down Dr. Frankenstein creations and "reform and fix" his falling down acharyas! Who put Rocana in charge of making Frankenstein acharyas? Who put Rocana in charge of fixing his Frankenstein acharyas? Who put Rocana in the post of declaring that acharyas are often debauchees, who need to go to reform school and be fixed and repaired? Rocana never explains any of this?
What we do know for sure is that after Rocana declared that he was in support of these Frankenstein gurus, there was a huge mass of banning, beating, molesting and some murders. Can Rocana fix and repair the thousands of victims to his policy of support of his deviant gurus? Nope. In short, people like Rocana are directly responsible for all the banning, beating, molesting and murders because they vociferously backed, supported and assisted the bogus "living gurus," and he still is supporting them by advertising their cheer leaders like Mayesvara. As soon as we said there is a child molesting program or anything else, Rocana's types attacked us all along, and that is how he helped cause all these problems in the first place.
He cannot fix his Frankenstein gurus that he manufactured in his garage, nor can he fix the thousands of victims of his policy of support of false gurus, he cannot fix a thing. All he can do now is start off by saying he has advanced to the point of being a five year old Christian, he has finally realized that neophytes deviate. We all knew that already?
Rocana is not addressing the main issue, we do not accept that he has had the authority to assist in making these gurus in the first place, nor to fix them later on, nor to join with those who declare that gurus deviate, like the rest of us neophytes. Rocana is juxtaposing our neophyte failings onto the acharyas, that was and is the problem we have had with Rocana since 1977. Saying we neophytes are prone to be deviated is something -- we all agreed to, in 1970? That is not what we are discussing NOW. ys pd
Some of them have been drinking beer, eating frosted cakes and other products with eggs, going to Starbucks for coffee mocha-lattes, some died from alcohol poison, some are taking heroin, and some even died of overdose of these types of drugs. Some of them (more forsooth!) worship Lord Jesus by celebrating Christmas (not so sure why this is such a crime)? Some of them are not keeping the proper standards, etc.
Yep, the list here is endless! Except? Heard it all before, ooops, starting way back in the 1970s. Yes, as a matter of fact, many of these same deviations were going on all throughout the 1970s -- even when Srila Prabhupada was here. Devotees (and leaders) were falling down on a regular basis, and falling into illicit sex, drugs, crimes, sometimes even murders, etc. This was well known at the time. What does any of this have to do with the question: whether or not the acharyas are pure? OK nothing at all, its another of Rocana's spin doctor program.
If we read any Western history (and / or current USA newspapers) anywhere, we'll find that both at the present time -- and for past previous centuries -- many "Christians" have all these same problems as well, including burning witches, slavery, badly behaving priests, exploiting women and children, criminal activities, and so on, happening every day, day in and day out for centuries. In point of fact, USA jails are chock full of these guys. These things happen all the time among religious neophytes. And such neophytes have been having all these same problems going on now for centuries.
If we actually read the Bible, we'll find in the "Letters to the Corinthians," that some of the first wave of Christians were admonished for being some sort of "party animals" and "behaving far worse than the ordinary common people." The first wave of Hare Krishnas have not done much better. Fine, agreed, but that has nothing to do with the issue we are discussing with Rocana and his ilk. They keep side stepping the actual point of contention: we don't agree with the GBC -- Mayesvara -- Rocana -- Gaudiya Matha idea that acharyas are the persons falling into the above mentioned deviations. All these folks keep avoiding the actual question at hand, why are they saying acharyas are the ones falling into all these deviations?
The point we are discussing is not the fact that neophytes can and often do deviate -- fall down, in fact we have known that since we were five years old. Yep! Its a FACT: neophytes tend to fall down and fail. Got it already! What we are discussing is not that issue at all, rather its the fact that Rocana and his pals like Mayesvara are still promoting the GBC's guru program, and their idea that acharyas may and sometimes do fail in all these forms of deviations.
In sum, in their program, they say that gurus, saints, God's successors, parampara members and ACHARYAS etc. are often falling into -- all of the deviations listed above. The Rocana -- Mayesvara -- GBC team are juxtaposing all these failures listed above with the SUCCESSORS TO GOD. That is the real point they never seem to comprehend? They keep arguing that neophytes tend to deviate and fall down, something maybe every Christian five year old child in the USA knows already, ... because they may have seen their uncle Harry get drunk at the Christmas party or etc.?
Most ordinary children ALREADY know that the rank and file Christians fall and stumble from time to time, even at an early age. Rocana seems to think he has discovered some amazing little known fact, that neophytes take tumbles on a regular basis, something even most five years old children know already?
OK! No one else is even arguing about this, we all ALREADY accept that neophytes fail. Got it. That is not the issue we have been discussing since 1978? Rocana keeps avoiding the actual topic at hand. Yes, agreed, the neophytes have problems. Yes that means the post-1977 Prabhupadanugas have had problems. And yet what Rocana seems to be oblivious to is, -- the followers of Srila Prabhupada have had these same problems all along since the start, at the get go, in the 1960s. And for that matter, many Christians have had the same problems all along, and yes, for that matter many Hindus have had similar problems, we got that already. That has nothing to do with what we are discussing since 1978, that the acharyas do not have these problems?
What we are discussing is the fact that -- while Srila Prabhupada was here -- and up to the present day -- NONE of the SINCERE Prabhupadanugas has been saying what the GBC -- Rocana -- Mayesvara -- Gaudiya Matha team has been saying, that acharyas -- are -- were -- could have been -- "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children," as we find in the Rocana -- Mayesvara -- GBC's -- Gaudiya Matha's program's apa-siddhanta. Also notice! NONE of the SINCERE Christians, despite some of them being very fallen personally, believe that pure devotee like Jesus either are -- were -- or they become -- debauchees.
Rocana just keeps playing the same recording over and over and over, ohhh booo freakin hooo, the neophytes are failing. Duh! Everyone knew that when we joined in 1970, the big leaders were falling left, right and center. The rank and file were failing, left, right and center. We all knew that in 1970? That has nothing to do with the apa-siddhanta being promoted by Rocana and his ilk, that it is THE ACHARYAS who are falling down left, right and center.
Rocana's guru reform workshop
The only good news is that Rocana eventually figured out his post-1977 bogus gurus that he was supporting, were not working properly. And so, after Rocana started his Dr. Frankenstein's project of making a pile of bogus gurus, he decided in 1986 that he had to "fix and repair" his broken down acharyas so he launched his bogus "guru reform."
Yep, Rocana actually thought he could control and fix his broken down Dr. Frankenstein creations and "reform and fix" his falling down acharyas! Who put Rocana in charge of making Frankenstein acharyas? Who put Rocana in charge of fixing his Frankenstein acharyas? Who put Rocana in the post of declaring that acharyas are often debauchees, who need to go to reform school and be fixed and repaired? Rocana never explains any of this?
What we do know for sure is that after Rocana declared that he was in support of these Frankenstein gurus, there was a huge mass of banning, beating, molesting and some murders. Can Rocana fix and repair the thousands of victims to his policy of support of his deviant gurus? Nope. In short, people like Rocana are directly responsible for all the banning, beating, molesting and murders because they vociferously backed, supported and assisted the bogus "living gurus," and he still is supporting them by advertising their cheer leaders like Mayesvara. As soon as we said there is a child molesting program or anything else, Rocana's types attacked us all along, and that is how he helped cause all these problems in the first place.
He cannot fix his Frankenstein gurus that he manufactured in his garage, nor can he fix the thousands of victims of his policy of support of false gurus, he cannot fix a thing. All he can do now is start off by saying he has advanced to the point of being a five year old Christian, he has finally realized that neophytes deviate. We all knew that already?
Rocana is not addressing the main issue, we do not accept that he has had the authority to assist in making these gurus in the first place, nor to fix them later on, nor to join with those who declare that gurus deviate, like the rest of us neophytes. Rocana is juxtaposing our neophyte failings onto the acharyas, that was and is the problem we have had with Rocana since 1977. Saying we neophytes are prone to be deviated is something -- we all agreed to, in 1970? That is not what we are discussing NOW. ys pd
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