Conversation re: Govinda Dasi's article

[PADA: Govinda Dasi has said that the GBC gurus are falling down:

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2014/11/destroyed-by-guru-game-govinda-dasi.html ]

Gauragopala Dasa: Nicely explained. Although in all fairness there has never been a Vaishnava organization as big as ISKCON that covers the entire world and it has only been going for 48 years, so there will obviously be growing and learning pains for such a big organization, the lessen here is NO ONE can imitate a pure devotee and if they try, it will NOT last because 'no lie can live forever!'

Mayesa Dasa: The problem is not knowing how to advance-we think it is a mental and an intellectual situation. And those around them also. So everyone doesn't understand. And where will you go to learn?

Saradiya Dasi: Srila Prabhupada's books have everything we need to know about the qualities of a pure devotee.

Gopinath Dasa: And ...so.... the show must go on...at any cost.

Saradiya Dasi: Whose responsible for disciples of gurus who have left their position?

Gopinath Dasa: according to the latest GBC foolosophy SP just became a "deliverer" acharya ... pretty much these modern day rubber-stamped reprobate wannabes get all the perks of as good as GOD worship, money, facilities,toys, etc... without any responsibilities to deliver their disciples....

Devarsirat Das: One can not negotiate round the watch and will of the Supreme Lord, who knows and sees everything. One should be on the look out for the genuine pure devotee and not be restricted by the walls of any institution and go and surrender to His Lotus feet.

Sanaka Rsi: Who's the newly fallen?

Kala Das: Thank you Govinda Dasi for your display of genuine compassion for all those affected by such situations.

Jayasri Radha DeviDasi Acbsp: "You all become guru" men, women, children. (All) Just as in Christianity. All of them bring others to Lord Jesus -- just as Srila Prabhupada confirmed as a bonafide process. The priest does the baptism and connects others with Jesus (mainly the Baptists do it when one is older) they use water ,,, whereas in vedic tradition we generally use fire. Same idea.... some official ceremony to connect and vows made..

Srila Prabhupada says that if one follows the priest who only speaks what Lord Jesus taught then at the end of life they will go to Lord Jesus.. Though some say it was never done in our Vaisnava Sampradaya. I don't think so ..... but even if that were true.. Srila Prabhupada has a right to do just as he did, as many other things that where not done before that he did.

He was not going against shastra or Vedic culture, its just not commonly done in our recent history.. Everyone is supposed to be a shiksha .. to help others according to our capacity.... then those who are designated can do the ritvic initiations as Srila Prabhupada said it in the question tape loud and clear.. but they wanted to misconstrue.

Its on the tape "Yes Ritvic" Its also in writing ... If anyone uses their God given intelligence we can see that the so called Zonal Acharya thing could not work.. Why?.... It was not set up by Srila Prabhupada. What he set up should be perfect then... Of course those Priests Brahmans were supposed to stay at one designation and initiate locals because they where just the formal initiation and of course they could take shiksha association from the priest.. (just as one does in the Christian tradition).

But instead they took it that they were the worship-able, deliverers ... hope they figure it out so the world can be saved. They will, when all the original disciples are not on the planet.. Then all will want to be connected with Prabhupada, as all are to be... that is the set up. Hare Krishna All glories to our Beloved Spiritual Master Srila Prabhupada Ki Jaya! We sing it every day in Guru puja.. He is our guru life after life! Hari bol

We also have to understand that all 11 were either all Acharyas appointed by Srila Prabhupada or not.. and we see not at all, so not.. The ritvic system set up makes more sense if anyone can understand this simple truth which will bring practically the whole world to Krishna consciousness when it is implemented as he directed. Hare Krishna.

Radhacaran Das: The Ritvik system is not part of Gaudiya Vaisnavism or for that matter part of the other 3 sampradayas, or even the Shankara line. However, what is part of our Gaudiya mission and it could not be more simple to understand is the "Every Town and Village" system which calls, not for a handful of big gurus to be in an ivory tower and disintegrate, but to have thousands of smaller gurus who can handle a handful of disciples in their localities. This perfectly matches Prabhupada's wish to see all his disciples become gurus. That makes sense and is durable, feasible, bonafide, blessed and ordered by Lord Caitanya.

Mayesa Dasa: Radhacaran das you do not know what an advanced devotee is.

Jayasri Radha DeviDasi Acbsp Yes all become shiksha gurus. Srila Prabhupada is the deliver. We are not interested in some sectarian thing.. Srila Prabhupada confirmed Ritvic and said thas what he wanted.. Its written and its on tape.. HE says the words..Im not going to argue. Thats just the instruction.. if devotees want to over ride with their own ideas then nothing can be done for them... Hope all come to their senses. Hare Krishna!

Dhritarastradas Tulasidasi: All iskcon books say " .ISKCON Founder Acarya" not just founder ... but Acarya. Srila Prabhupada was very insistent about this on all books, program posters, letters etc.

Patita Pavana Das: Wait a minute, the quote Mother Govinda dasi gave says that a guru will rise naturally. Mother Jayasri, Isn't your assertion a contradiction of this statement of our (your, mine, Govinda's) Guru Maharaja? I am trying to figure this out.

Dhritarastradas Tulasidasi: It seems even senior devotees could not really tell who was advanced. We know Srila Prabhupada is. Many we put faith in where fired up sincere, but not on highest platform. It seems iskcons approach is set up for failure by putting very sincere devotees in a position most can't maintain and as a result many devotees become discouraged or leave all together.

Srila Prabhupada tells everyone in his books to approach a bonafide spiritual master. so people coming to iskcon assume that the gurus presented by iskcon are the gurus described in His books. so when a guru falls the devotee feels cheated or misled or even lied to. This is a HUGE recurring PROBLEM. I don't see how this can be rectified and managed in a world wide movement under the approach iskcon is following. what is the answer?

Mahaksadasa Matt Johnson: Our line is the descending path, the guru is known for his service, not his mastery. Such a clear teaching, cant understand how it was missed.

Mahasrnga-Crawford Dasa: Unless one is a bona-fide guru, coming in disciplic succession and authorized by his guru the karma of his "disciples" stays with him and can't be passed up the line to Krsna. The GBC know that conditioned souls voting in other conditioned souls as "guru" is wrong, but when you bring it up their brain washed minds bring up the "ritvik" dance.

William: http://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/tfo.htm#July

Saradiya Dasi: So how many years has this debate been raging? Perhaps we need to see what the results have churned out. Actions speak louder than words. So of the original 11 or 12, who is still standing in the same spotlight? And the others, how are they faring? And how many of the disciples of the gurus are with them? How many gurus have the followers gone through? Anyone done a study of this?

Mahasrnga-Crawford Dasa: Paramatma is seeing and remembering everything. Shame some of the "present day" gurus don't believe. Study would be good but be careful of who you show it too.

Visnupriya-devi Dasi: Everyone will be judged at the time of death, GBC or otherwise.....

Mahaksadasa Matt Johnson: There is no controversy here at all. Guru tattwa is completely and perfectly taught in the second chapter of science of self realization. There is no go between, no artificial ecclesiastical gurus, nor is there any rebellious movements who deviaze unauthorized initiation SYSTEMS that serve any valid purpose in regard to guru disciple relationships. Guru is ultimately Lord Nityananda who resides in the heart of all who live as supersoul. He is the cause of initiation, it is He who manifests as guru and places the sincere candidate for devotional service at the feet of who HE decides will represent Him. It is Lord Balarama who disposes of the imposters with his kusa weapon and installs the proper One to hear from.

Masrnga-Crawford Dasa: Srila Prabhupada is a Uttama-Adhikari associating and acting on behalf of Lord Krsna in Kali Yuga. He observed the quality and ambition of his disciples and saw no one was qualified to be a diksa guru. Therefore being a perfect living being he set up the right system.

Padmagarbha Das Ir would like to take this opportunity to express by deepest apology to the victims of this particularly above mentioned most vile "soul-molester", and also to ALL those others previously and presently cheated and betrayed by these lying "iskcon" guru.

Mahasrnga-Crawford Dasa Very interesting perspective Padmagarbha prabhu. Hope a few get by sentiment to ponder over weakness and cheating.

Padmagarbha Das Well the fact that the guru system in ISKCON is bogus is beyond doubt for those who have some intelligence and who know the history of the GBC’s system – which has no precedence in India or our Gaudiya Vaisnava tradition or in the vani of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura or Srila Prabhupada for that matter.

Having said that if we keep on harping on the term ‘rtvik’ we will run into trouble because as you know and Srila Prabhupada has taught that a rtvik is a priest who performs rituals related to a particular Veda. The only rtvik at a formal initiation would be the brahmin conducting the fire yajna. The nonsense espoused by Radhacarana dasa is useless verging on disingenuous in this issue - for Srila Prabhupada is the Acarya and he dictates sastra for mankind and he established the representative system and it was operational in his time and henceforward should have been operational.

To say that there is no sastric reference is foolish to say the least and offensive to Srila Prabhupada who established and operated such a system. “On your recommendation” has been the process in ISKCON... on the TP’s recommendation one is accepted as a aspiring disciple... On the recommendation of the Representative of the Acrarya for initiation Srila Prabhupada accepts the aspiring disciple as a disciple.

On your recommendation functions under the ‘representative of the acarya’ principle. Another point to consider in this whole fiasco is that why do devotees insist that Srila Prabhupada is dead and gone when he is on our altars in all our Temples as a arca vigraha Deity. He is worshipped morning to night, we all pay our obeisances to him multiple times a day and we sing his guru puja every morning in all our temples... So how is he not non different to Radha Shyamasundar on our altars?

Oh and where is it in sastra that one can sing ‘Gurudev’ to their bogus guru prior to Srila Prabhupada’s Gurupuja in an ISKCON Temple??? If they were gurus in their own right they would have gurupuja offered to them in the Temple and Srila Prabhupada would be only found on the altar? Of course the disciples can do anything they want with their bogus gurus. What would be the best scenario is that the gurus preach in new fields separate from ISKCON and open their own temples and then they can have their disciples worship them with all the pomp and ceremony they desire without restraint???

What is more - how can anyone say when we are invoking the devatas and the Visnu tattvas ect to any yajna that they do not come, if it is pure enough and the Hare Krsna mantra is being sung – so how can anyone think that Srila Prabhupada is not also present at these yajnas when or if he is invited???? That he is not present at the initiation yajna??? That he does not hear our prayers?
That he does not accept them?

These are all mundane minded devotees who do not accept the transcendental world... Anyway thought that I might have my say... Take care - Krsnacandra dasa

=================================

Miley Cyrus (Update)

Reading -- Science of Self Realization

Miley: How did I get chosen to be the one with this life? feeling f**king thankful & it's not the season. it's going to sleep in silence nothing but these baby angels and a book after a long loud day filled with making what I love. alone time but I'm not alone! I'll take a soul over a voice box forever

=============================================

See original post here:

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2014/11/miley-cyrus-reading-prabhupadas-book.html

=============================================

Rupa Vilas Gives GBC the Sauce

[PADA: The "ritvik debates." Of course we were not allowed to discuss the activities, and history, of the GBC's gurus, hee hee. ys pd]

Hare Krishna's Mid-life Crisis

http://brooklynquarterly.org/hare-krishna-movements-midlife-crisis/

[PADA: Yep! The ordinary USA citizens and media seem to be well aware of the mass exodus, giant mental break downs of the GBC's leaders, various scams and scandals, schisms and resulting downright empty ISKCON temples. When the book "Monkey On A Stick" came out, one GBC told me he brought the book to a GBC meeting. He wanted to alarm the other leaders how badly the movement was looking in the public eye.

According to this person, Ravindra Swarupa took the book and deposited it into a trash can. Ravindra then said, "We have no concern for what the foolish karmis think." Yep, no kidding, no concern for what the devotees think, no concern for what the karmis think, no concern for what Krishna thinks, just no concern for nuttin, except -- how high is my vyasa seat!

And this is still going on all the time up to today, the GBC makes a big lawsuit in India which results in their getting busted for fraud and contempt of court -- duly published in all the India newspapers. They even paid apparently $20 million dollars for this lawsuit -- so they could give the movement an even worse name, using the movement's own money to give it another black eye in the public. Yep, it only cost ISKCON $20 million dollars to make them look like a pack of crooks. Again!

Then we have some so-called Prabhupadanugas who make public web sites against us, taking the fight with us into the general public eye, so they can make the movement look more foolish than it already looks. How did you guess, they quote GBC cheer leaders like Hari Sauri, Bhakta das, and anti-ritviks like Rocana, and they even quote a site that says the Krishnas are demons, and they post that to the general public. Then these folks wonder why the movement looks foolish -- to the public? Duh! Yep the best way to fix the bad publicity is to promote the people who caused the bad publicity!

The only good news is that we are at least gaining some sane and sincere folks here and there, its just that we could use a little help instead in constant counter measures. The other really good news is that we just have to keep going and depend on Krishna, its all in His hands in the final analysis. Just do your job and do not be attached to the results, that's all there is to it, except we are encouraged, we get nice results all the time -- people thank us on a regular basis since 1978 for giving them Srila Prabhupada as their acharya. ys pd]      

Krishna's Paraphernalia is Also Krishna

http://iskcontimes.org/krishnas-paraphernalia
   

Destroyed by Guru Game (Govinda Dasi)

Another dear God brother and disciple of Srila Prabhupada destroyed by the Guru Game.

Such sincere disciples, but they attempt this Guru feat "as a service to Srila Prabhupada,"without really realizing the inherent dangers. Even the ones who do so sincerely, without any personal ambitions, seem to go down in flames, sooner or later.

So many have come and gone, over these past 30+ years--why can't they learn from the others who went before them? As soon as the conditioned soul, albeit so well meaning, and often with good intentions, allows himself to be adored and worshiped as a "pure devotee," the end is near.

If there is even a tiny shred of impurity, that tiny crack will be penetrated by Maya and filled with pride, and anger and lust and all the things that should not be present in the heart of a guru. Taking on the karma of others is a very risky business. It's like trying to cross a river with rocks piled high on one's back--there is a great chance of sinking.

Can this be avoided, I ask myself? Can a sincere disciple simply act as a life coach, a loving guide, an inspirational elder, without falling into the trap of being promoted as a "pure devotee?" I don't know. I've never seen it done. It always seem to end up the same way, in tragedy.

One of these "retired" gurus was so dear to me, just like a son, and always the most sincere and regulated disciple, with all brahminical qualities from the very beginning. But the worship, the adoration, the money, the power over other people's lives -- it eventually devastated him too. And now, just like all the rest, he lives hidden away in disgrace -- with the shattered lives of so many injured disciples ever in his mind. There should be a Guru Retirement home and those aspiring for Guruhood should go there for counseling.

Why can't we learn? Why not just do what our Srila Prabhupada said, and what his Srila Prabhupada said as well. The instructions are repeated in so many places. "Just go on with your service, don't try to become guru prematurely, whoever is meant to be guru will come out automatically in time."

Everyone has heard this, but somehow it gets lost in all the arguments for guruhood. Gaudiya Math forgot this instruction of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and Iskcon forgot it as well. Why not just remain simple, and go on with our service as we were when Srila Prabhupada was physically present? Why do devotees think they must do something which is beyond their nature, beyond their natural abilities?

In India there is a saying: The Guru Business is a Bad Business. They've had a few centuries of it to really understand--maybe that's what has to happen.

[PADA: Good, this is what he have been saying all along. One big problem is that if ISKCON is saying these gurus are their divine saviors from heaven, then, when the guru is destroyed -- so is the institution, which is what happened in the post-1936 Gaudiya Matha. ys pd]

Climate Change Due to "End Times"?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/28/extreme-weather-blame-the-end-times.html

[PADA: Apparently, many Christians are not alarmed by recent increases in severe weather, such as droughts, seven feet of snow, floods and hurricanes etc., nor are they worried too much about increases in polluted air and water, its all part of "the end times predicted in the Bible."

Yep, the end of the world is coming anyway, so who gives a hoot! One of my Christian friends has offered this explanation, yes, the world will no longer be habitable pretty soon, but that really does not matter anyway, because when the earth is no longer habitable, we will know how to fly to a new planet by then, and we will habitate the new planet.

It will be paradise again. Ya think so pilgrims! Sorry, Kali Yuga will progress, and people will be stuck here to deal with it. There is a new movie out now called "Interstellar" where they try to find a new planet for the humans, because the current world is no longer livable. Its almost like, -- they know what is coming here.

The various Christian's "End Time" explanation is called "climate change denial" in the article, and we think that's the fact. "Denial" has been a similar problem in the Krishna religion as well, oh well, its all temporary prabhu, who gives a hoot!

A devotee called me today to say basically the same thing, i.e. he and others have been "out of the loop," because once they knew "problems" were starting in ISKCON, they just abandoned ship. They still really do not even know NOW about all the problems ISKCON has been experiencing.

He was asking for "details" and was shocked to hear some of them, These folks smelled trouble, they saw the ISKCON ship was headed for the rocks, and so they just left and wandered off the reservation and let ISKCON go its own (wayward) way. A karmi media person told once us that ISKCON seems to be suffering from "cowardly lion syndrome." OK, well at least the Krishna's are not the only denial fanatics on the planet. ys pd]   

Seven Temples of Vrndavana

Bhakti Vriksha Kutir (Mayapura)

======================

Bhakti Vriksha Kutir: 

By the devotees, for the devotees, of the devotees, without any commercial motive.

Hare Krishna to all devotees worldwide. All glories to Srila Prabhupada, who built a house in which the whole world can live. We also want to become a small tool in that mission of Srila Prabhupada by making a small Kutir (next to proposed university) for devotees. Any devotee from anywhere - ISKCON or non-ISKCON - can come and stay (voluntary donation accepted) any time of the year, including prasadam (when arrangements are complete).



We are hopeful to be successful by the blessings of all the Vaisnavas, for we do not have any other ulterior motives then serving the devotees with love and affection, without any distinction of nationality, language, department or institution. We want the blessings of all of you so that we can achieve what is desired by our Spiritual beloved father, Srila Prabhupada - our inspiration.

[PADA: Well this is a good step in the right direction, a place for ALL of the children of Srila Prabhupada. That is what we needed all along. Lets see how this works in practice. At least people are finally advertising Srila Prabhupada more, and GBC's gurus -- less. We need to reverse the GBC's post-1977 policy of orchestrated banning, beating and even -- assassinating the devotees of Srila Prabhupada. If anyone has experiences from visiting this place and would like to make a report, lets us know at: angel108b@yahoo.com. ys pd] 

Initiations -- In the Future

Brahmananda Das (from GBC Vyasapuja homages 1982 found in 2003 Vedabase)

"I therefore implore all naive - hearted followers of Srila Prabhupada’s ungrateful sons: Don’t follow leaders who minimize Srila Prabhupada. They are cheating Srila Prabhupada, and they will also cheat you. There is no one equal to Srila Prabhupada, and there never will be. To try to nominate someone as being equal to Srila Prabhupada means one has to reduce Srila Prabhupada to fit alongside the less-important person. They are so envious of Srila Prabhupada that they cannot even utter his befitting name. If you allow yourselves to be misled, then it will be too unfortunate for you, because your chance for perfect spiritual life in this birth will have been spoiled. Come back to (the real) ISKCON, the original path of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada."

======================== [PADA: More and more people are "getting it," there never was any ISKCON "guru appointment" meant to continue post-1977. Rather, Srila Prabhupada was meant to continue as the acharya of ISKCON even after his physical departure. And subsequently Hansadutta, Jayatirtha, Kirtanananda and others eventually agreed, guru is not by appointment.

That is ALSO what all the documents state, and we have helped assemble these documents over the years and really, no one can contest these documents. This is why the GBC never asks us for a public debate, they will lose.

Of course the bogus GBC gurus and their allies ended up being upset with us because we helped collate these documents -- documents that ended up in the Supreme Court of India. These documents are very clear in -- ordering -- the continuance of Srila Prabhupada as the exclusive acharya of ISKCON.

There is simply NO counter documentation to support the idea that 11 of the ISKCON GBC had been appointed acharyas, or that the GBC has the role of appointing acharyas, etc. All the evidence supports our idea -- that Srila Prabhupada was meant to be the acharya of ISKCON "henceforward." That is what ALL the documentation supported ALL along. ys pd]

Caitanya Priya Das

PARTICULARLY AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US.
WE WANT TO KNOW HOW FIRST AND SECOND INITIATIONS WILL BE CONDUCTED

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUESTION-(28/may/1977)

Satsvarupa:

-INITIATIONS IN THE FUTURE,

-HOW FIRST AND SECOND INITIATIONS WILL BE CONDUCTED,

PARTICULARLY AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US.

ANSWER-(28/may/1977)

Srila Prabhupada:

"I SHALL RECOMMEND SOME OF YOU TO ACT AS OFFICIATING ACHARYA."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

28/5/1977

QUESTION:

Satsvarupa:

"Then our next question concerns INITIATIONS IN THE FUTURE, PARTICULARLY AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US. WE WANT TO KNOW HOW FIRST AND SECOND INITIATIONS WILL BE CONDUCTED."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANSWER:

Srila Prabhupada:

"Yes. I SHALL RECOMMEND SOME OF YOU. After this is settled up. I SHALL RECOMMEND SOME OF YOU TO ACT AS OFFICIATING ACHARYA."

Tamala Krishna: "Is that called RITVIK-ACARYA?"

Srila Prabhupada: "RITVIK.YES." (28/5/1977)

----------------------------------------------
Note: We must carefully analyze the essence of this short conversation for a proper understanding.

THE QUESTION:

Our next question concerns “INITIATIONS IN THE FUTURE”.

IN THE FUTURE = THAT TIME, WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US.

INITIATIONS = FIRST AND SECOND INITIATIONS

"IN THE FUTURE" the general meaning is: "from now on; henceforth, HENCEFORWARD" which means for ALL of the FUTURE; All of the time; From this moment on; From now on after this moment; Henceforward into the future (etc).

-They specify that the question refers to a specific and particular period of the future:
PARTICULARLY AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US.

They divided THE FUTURE in two periods,

The border or dividing point of these two periods was that particular moment,time,”WHEN you are no longer with us”,when you leave the body:

FIRST PERIOD:

From now,(28-may-1977),until the moment "when YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US",when you leave the body.

SECOND PERIOD:
”when you are no longer with us”,from the moment YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US, when you leave your body. HENCEFORTH, HENCEFORWARD

The question concerns to this particular "VERY LONG" second period of the future. “We want to know”

Why "our next question about INITIATIONS IN THE FUTURE" does not refer with the first period?

The first period means from that day,(28-may-1977),to the concrete or particular moment when Prabhupada would leave the body.

It means a period,future, when still Srila Prabhupada would be physically present.

They were not interested about “how first and second initiations will be conducted” during that first period,during Srila Prabhupada´s physical presence, because for that period already they knew what to do and in fact already they were doing these rittvik initiations on Prabhupada's behalf from a number of years ago.

Why ask about what you already know?.

You ask about what you do not know.
For that reason they said: ”WE WANT TO KNOW”.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The clear CONCLUSION is that

FIRST CONCLUSION :

The question about INITIATIONS during this first period,during Prabhupada presence, was unnecesary and did not happen. There was not any answer to a nonexistent question. There was no official document with a nonexistent answer to a nonexistent question. Everything about initiations during Srila Prabhupada presence it was clearly established from years ago.

SECOND CONCLUSION:

What they want to know, the question, the answer and the official document were exclusively related to:

“HOW FIRST AND SECOND INITIATIONS WILL BE CONDUCTED PARTICULARLY AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US.”

That means according to the clear question, INITIATIONS AFTER SRILA PRABHUPADA PHYSICAL DISAPPERANCE.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The immediate answer was very clear, "I SHALL RECOMMEND SOME OF YOU
TO ACT AS OFFICIATING ACHARYA "RITVIK, (28/May/1977),but the OFFICIAL answer WOULD ALSO COME few weeks later (July 9 th,1977).

.After this is settled up, ”I SHALL RECOMMEND SOME OF YOU …” (28/May/1977)

1.The form “I SHALL,we shall” is used before a verb in the infinitive to show something that will take place or exist in the future. The form “shall”(esp with: I or we as subject) is used as an auxiliary to make the future.Example; We shall arrive tomorrow.we shall see you tomorrow.
In the first person, shall is used to indicate simple futurity: I shall (not will) have to buy another ticket.

That means that Srila Prabhupada will make , in the near future, ("AFTER THIS IS SETTLED UP”), a official document in answer to that essential specific question, just as the document also confirms: “Srila Prabhupada indicated that SOON HE WOULD APPOINT some of His senior disciples”

THE CLEAR ANSWER TO THAT SPECIFIC AND CLEAR QUESTION (28/May/1977), would ALSO come in a very clear official document few weeks later ( July 9 th,1977).

http://www.harekrsna.org/gbc/themes/july9.htm 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE DOCUMENT ( July 9 th,1977) IS THE PUBLIC OFFICIAL CORRESPONDING ANSWER TO THE SPECIFIC QUESTION,(28/May/1977) as indicated at the beginning of the document:” RECENTLY,WHEN all of the GBC members were with His Divine Grace in Vrindavana, Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as "rittvik"-representative of the acharya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation.”

We can see clearly how the beginning of the document tells that this is the official public manifestation of what Srila Prabhupada anticipated at that meeting: "I SHALL RECOMMEND SOME OF YOU ..." (28 / May / 1977).

The essential point to remember is that THIS DOCUMENT IS THE ANSWER TO A VERY SPECIFIC QUESTION that was made to Srila Prabhupada on May 28, 1977.

What was that question that Srila Prabhupada answered that is now formalized in a document?

"WE WANT TO KNOW
HOW FIRST AND SECOND INITIATIONS WILL BE CONDUCTED
PARTICULARLY AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US."

Therefore the validity of this document relates especially to the specific period of time, after the physical departure of Srila Prabhupada, the system of initiations after the departure of Srila Prabhupada,a very long period of future.

“AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US.”,from that time forward,henceforward.

This entire document is a clear response to this clear question,THE SYSTEM OF INITIATIONS AFTER THE PHYSICAL DISAPPEARANCE OF SRILA PRABHUPADA.

And this is the description of the system according to the document,a clear answer to a clear question:

Vrindaban
9 July, 1977
77-07-09
To All G.B.C., and Temple Presidents
Dear Maharajas and Prabhus,
Please accept my humble obeisances at your feet.

*Recently when all of the GBC members were with His Divine Grace in Vrndavana,

*Srila Prabhupada indicated that
soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples
TO ACT AS RITVIK-REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ACARYA,
for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation.

His Divine Grace has so far given a list of eleven disciples who will act in that capacity:…............

*THE NEWLY INITIATED DEVOTEES ARE DISCIPLES OF HIS DIVINE GRACE A.C. BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA,

*THE ABOVE ELEVEN SENIOR DEVOTEES ACTING AS HIS REPRESENTATIVE.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOCUMENT 9/July/1977

Please note between parenthesis and capital letters are the corresponding text from 28/may/1977,to be observed the total similarity between the two documents where one (9/July/1977) is a strict and detailed response and replica of the first (28/May/1977).

*Recently,(9/July/1977),referring to 28/MAY/1977

*when all of the GBC members were with His Divine Grace in Vrindavana, (9/July/1977)

( OUR,the GBC,NEXT QUESTION CONCERNS-28/May/1977)”

*Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint -9/July/1977

("AFTER THIS IS SETTLED UP,I SHALL RECOMMEND….28/May/1977 ")

*some of His senior disciples-9/July/1977
( "SOME OF YOU.",28/May/1977)

*to act as "rittvik"-representative of the acharya, 9/July/1977
("TO ACT AS OFFICIATING ACHARYA.RITVIK-28/May/1977)”

*for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation. 9/July/1977

(“INITIATIONS IN THE FUTURE,
PARTICULARLY AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US.
We want to know
HOW FIRST AND SECOND INITIATIONS WILL BE CONDUCTED.” 28/May/1977)

*HisDivine Grace has so far given a list of eleven disciples9/July/1977

(I SHALL RECOMMEND SOME OF YOU. 28/May/1977)

*who will act in that capacity9/July/1977
(TO ACT AS OFFICIATING ACHARYA. 28/May/1977):

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may HENCEFORWARD send recommendation for first and second initiation…”

-henceforth or henceforwards or henceforward:
.henceforward, from this time forth; from now on;from this time forward;
example:"henceforth she will be known as Mrs. Smith"

Synonyms
from now on, in the future, hereafter, hence, herein after, from this day forward
British English: henceforth Henceforth means from this time onwards.
from this time forward : starting now
.-forth 1. Forward in time, place, or order; onward: from this time forth.

This means that this resolution or measure should be followed until a new different order to change it or abolish, coming from this same person,the authority,Srila Prabhupada.

What it means FROM NOW AND FOREVER, because once "disappeared" he will never change such order.

HENCEFORWARD means “IN THE FUTURE”, now on; henceforth”, ALL THE FUTURE,FROM NOW AND WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US.

According to the question asked, “PARTICULARLY AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US”,here HENCE FORWARD means “as much time as you're no longer with us”,FROM NOW AND FOREVER.

Prabhupada's Temple and Guest Rooms Vrndavana

http://prabhupadavision.com/temple/

BBC Show: Kumbha Mela 2013

ISKCON Mumbhai Crimes On TV

[PADA: Wow! We had this same program's criminal actions exposed on TV in the 1980s, over here in the USA, and its now finally getting on TV over there. Yep, they are crooks, plain and simple. Worse, these crooks are trying to empower an illicit sex guru program. Crooked and immoral all at once. DAYARAMA even sent me a message that its true, the GBC has been promoting deviants as acharyas.

Anyway, this is good "Jayapataka Sisya Samuha" is implicated as are the leaders of Bombay ISKCON. We are glad these folks are finally getting some (USA style) "court justice." I love the sort of "Satanic" music they keep playing in the background here, hee hee! Fits quite well.

Anyway, the GBC is really getting desperate to use these types of criminal manipulation tactics. Look at some of the criminal charges: Scandalizing the court; Subverting the Judicial; Blackmail; Unlawful influence of the Judiciary; Criminal contempt of Court; Theft of photos; Extortion; Cheating; Forgery; Forgery for purpose of cheating; Forgery of electronic record; Conspiracy with others, etc. ISKCON Bombay's Varada Krishna is also being charged, and the CID (India's FBI) is involved.. Yep, we said they are crooks, and they are. PADA's predictions are -- almost always -- proven correct. ys pd

Srila Prabhupada Disciples Legacy Project

PADA: Of course we helped formulate and document the idea that anyone who follows Srila Prabhupada today is -- or can be -- his disciple now -- whether pre-or post 1977. And a whole lot of people subsequently agreed with us, and thus the post-1977 "current Srila Prabhupada disciples" idea is being implemented almost worldwide in different examples. Anyway we hope this site brings forward some good nectar realizations and helps with some of the relevant issues of ISKCON today. ys pd 

http://www.spdisciples.com/

From: Nandalal Dasi

ATTENTION ALL DISCIPLES OF SRILA PRABHUPADA

INITIATED PRIOR TO NOV 14, 1977:

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

This notice is to inform you of the official launch on December 10th, of a fully interactive website designed specifically for you! YOU have been a vital participant in the creation of the Hare Krishna Movement. That makes you a most essential part of the History of Srila Prabhupada’s appearance on this planet.

One of the primary purposes of this website is to locate all of Srila Prabhupada disciples so they are ALL included as a part of that history! What if you are not included? Please take the time to sign in letting us know how to contact you by clicking on this link: http://www.spdisciples.com

What if you could be in contact with devotees you haven’t seen years? Srila Prabhupada’s complete disciples database will be fully interactive on this website, and you will be able to find old friends and devotees with just the click of a mouse!

Do you think every devotee should be included with a photo and profile? Currently there is no central place where a photo of every disciple of Srila Prabhupada is included with a brief profile. This website will do all of that, securely.

At the present time, we have worked to update the list of 4,720 initiated disciples, out of which we have contact info for about 1,500 devotees. This means that 3,220 names are missing contact information. Are you one those?

What about Memorials with photos for all those that have left their bodies? These are not being stored anywhere in a central location on an organized basis. This website will fill that void also!

Please pre-register here: http://www.spdisciples.com

Your servants at The Legacy Project.

For further questions you may contact:
legacy@spdisciples.com
706-232-6681

November 24, 2014

DISCLAIMER: The Legacy Project is a not directly affiliated with ISKCON or any organization, although we maintain all relevant relationships to accomplish the objectives. Since the project's inception the attempt has been primarily to compile a complete database of Srila Prabhupada's disciples, bring them together, and get their memories saved for the future.

Videos of Vrndavana Chandrodaya Speeches

http://news.vrindavantoday.org/2014/11/videos-vrindavan-chandrodaya-speeches/

[PADA: Really nice glorification of Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON by Pranab Mukherjee.] 

Sacinandana Swami's Ramesh Baba Program

==================================

Sacinandana Swami Exposed as Sahajiya

BY: JAGANNATH DAS

I would like to present a very interesting conversation between Sacinandana Swami and Ramesh Babaji Maharaj. This video went viral after it was published by Ramesh Baba's Maan Mandir account on YouTube, but was swiftly removed within one day. Luckily it was saved and uploaded again. It perfectly displays all the main features of a sahajiya movement within ISKCON:

[PADA: The other GBC "gurus" most likely ordered Sacinandana Swami's folks to remove the videos that had been advertising their visiting Ramesh Babaji, because these videos would indirectly invite more and more ISKCON people to follow Sacinanadana's lead -- and run off to the Radha Kunda babajis.

All along since 1978 the GBC guru's program has been losing "rank and file" members to these "Indian gurus" left, right and center, thus NOWADAYS they have to try to squash advertising of their own LEADERS promoting and associating with various Gaudiya Matha and Babaji "gurus." At the same time, the GBC's "gurus" have already directly advertised for many "outside gurus" particularly from the Gaudiya Matha since 1978, and this has lead to a mass exodus from ISKCON to these "outside gurus" already.

Ramesh Babaji

Of course as soon as we say that ISKCON should NOT be associated with these Babajis, Gaudiya Matha gurus, Tantrics, Ghost Busters etc. ... then the GBC's "gurus" and their defenders like Bhakta Das say we SHOULD be associated with these outside folks, and we Prabhupada aligned devotees are "making offenses to great souls." Apparently, there is little (or none) notice from the GBC's gurus and their supporters that due to these "outside authorities" rubber stamping and endorsing the GBC's "guru system," this is creating havoc and deterioration for the ISKCON institution itself? 

Not only has the so-called GBC's ilk been upset with PADA for challenging their "guru" program, their sympathizers and disciples of Bhakta das like Prahlad and his HKC Jaipur folks (who are busy making videos of Bhakta das and promoting him as their spokesman and authority) are also infuriated we are opposing their hero and shiksha guru Bhakta das -- and we are thus challenging their ISKCON Gaudiya Matha and Babaji evolution program, never mind we exposed Bhakta's "guru's" Haitian Disco project way before anyone else even knew there was a problem. Yes, these people are even upset that we are exposing their Haitian Disco program, never mind their sahajiya infiltration problem. 

Did we forget to mention that Bhakta das promotes Mahanidhi's "Radha Kunda Babaji" program, and Bhakta's shiksha guru BV Puri promoted Gopal Krishna, Radhanath and Narayana Maharajas and so on? And Radhanath's program buried Kirtanananda's carcass in Vrdnavana? Radhanath swami is connected to the entire New Vrndavana criminal meltdown fiasco, why is he still "a saint" in Sacinandana's program?  

Why is Sacinananda swami connected to a program that promotes Radhanath as a saint, knowing that program buries dead deviants in the holy dham? And why doesn't Ramesh Babaji say, "Hey guess what, we cannot bury dead deviants in the holy dham, and we need to drive that program out of the holy dham"? 

Where is the interest in keeping the purity and integrity of the holy dham? And why is it that its almost always us fallen ex-mlecchas have to point out that we cannot bury bogus fools in the holy dham? And why is HKC Jaipur not over there in Vrndavana with signs protesting the burying of deviants in the holy dham, and instead they are protesting PADA because we want deviants NOT to be buried there? 

These guys could not organize a protest of the mis-use of a bag of peanuts, much less mis-use of the holy dham for the past 35 years. Yep, as soon as we say we should not bury deviants on the holy dham these guys protest -- us! Lets face it, all of these folks would rather have deviants worshiped in the holy dham than have us and Bangalore re-establish the worship of Srila Prabhupada in the holy dham. 

And thus, most of these people are united against PADA, including many from the GBC, various Gaudiya Matha folks, Bhakta das, HKC Jaipur etc, -- and they similarly ALL oppose Bangalore making a Srila Prabhupada centered temple in Vrndavana, because they are either with the Sacinandana swami /  Bhakta das / Radhanath program -- of burying dead deviants like Kirtanananda in the holy land -- or they would rather have that program take charge of the holy land than our Prabhupada centered program -- because they love the deviants more than Srila Prabhupada. 

In any case, these assembled folks would rather see the worship of illicit sex in the holy dham than the worship of Srila Prabhupada, because they ALL oppose those of us who want that process removed, and that is why the worship of illicit sex has been going on there.

They all know us and Bangalore oppose the process of polluting the holy dham with bogus acharyas. Why not join Bangalore and protest burying dead deviants in the holy land? Nope, they oppose Bangalore because they want the deviants to remain as the main source of political power and influence there.  

So all these various out croppings and influences are inter-connected, basically its the same people who invited in the Gaudiya Matha's gurus, and later invited in the Babajis, Fakir Mohan, the GBC's ghost buster Chitesvara etc. etc. And all of these outside influences were brought in by the GBC (and their hand maidens like Bhakta das)  to rubber stamp and empower their bogus GBC guru program, because they knew we (most of the God brothers) were not going to promote their guru program. And all of the GBC gurus, their Gaudiya Matha advisors, their Rasika teachers, Bhakta das and his disciples, etc. they all opposed PADA because we kept pointing out that their "servant of Radha" gurus are -- defective and unauthorized.     

OK, even we have to admit that its probably better to associate with Ramesh Babaji than to be watching football on TV with Satsvarupa, or to be watching a homosexual marriage at Krishna West, but the problem remains that ISKCON's GBC are not making a much better alternative to these Babaji programs, or the GBC program is a worse deviation than the Babajis and Gaudiya Matha's. At least some of these Gaudiya Matha folks try to follow the principles and live austere lives. 

The whole reason people are even discussing -- Sridhara Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja, BV and BP Puri, Ramesh Babaji, Ananta Vasudeva's disciples like Fakir Mohan, etc. is because the bogus GBC are driving their people over to these folks camps and telling the members of ISKCON that these folks are the GBC's "higher authorities" for ISKCON. We should not even be discussing these folks because we were told not to associate with them. 

Yes, people tell us all these folks are "nice guys," and "they are helping ISKCON people when they lose faith in the process," ... except these "nice guys" are causing the whole problem in ISKCON by supporting and endorsing the GBC's gurus. And thus, when people lose faith in the GBC gurus, they end up "taking shelter" of these "GBC rasika advisors." The GBC is the pied piper leading the entire society over to these "other" camps, then they wonder aloud why ISKCON has been over-taken by these other camps? Go look in a mirror!  

Indeed, at one time Narayan Maharaja was bragging that he has "more ISKCON people" in his mission than the GBC's have in the official ISKCON mission, and he may have been correct. In short, the GBC's "gurus" often spawn their own competition by advertising outside gurus as their "shiksha advisors" and so on. The GBC leaders already know -- by now -- this policy has been bleeding members away from the official ISKCON mission all along starting with Sridhara Maharaja in 1978, so they do not want to start another stampede over to the Ramesh Babaji program. 

And a devotee from North Carolina wrote to tell us Tripurari swami is siphoning off people from ISKCON, so this is a big problem for ISKCON, but this process was all started when the GBC itself told everyone they had to take shelter of all these outside programs.]

Not caring for Srila Prabhupada's instructions not to associate with Radhakunda babajis (Letter to Nitai - Los Angeles, 7 June 1976)

Insisting on feelings (as opposed to sastric quotes, sadhana and preaching)

Desire to enjoy (hard work and pushing yourself and others for Srila Prabhupada is not considered pleasurable)

Mayavadi oneness (discriminating shown as bad, all devotees need to be loved, doesn't matter what nonsense or deviation are they engaged in)

Only mentioning feelings to Radharani and feelings to material things (feelings toward Srila Prabhupada are nowhere to be found)

Having discussions on extremely low intellectual level (it's hard to believe that this is actually a disciple of the greatest preacher that came to western world, greatest senapati bhakta general Srila Prabhupada. Introductory books written by Srila Prabhupada such as Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers are unlimitedly more interesting than this conversation.)

It seems to be very hard, almost impossible to uproot sahajiyas from ISKCON, but at least we can show our disagreement by exposing them. And yes, you can laugh freely, this really looks like cheap soap opera.

Video Transcript

Ramesh Baba: I'm very lucky to see you!

Sacinandana Swami: Ha ha ha! Somehow you have chosen to give me your affection since a long time, and that affection is still, after a long time in your heart, and I also feel the same. I've visited you many years and you were always smiling on me, and I was always happy to feel your affection. Thank you very much! How is our lion of Braj? Health is...

Ramesh Baba: Small insect of Braj.

Sacinandana Swami: Ha ha ha! Hare Krishna! I was very, very happy when I listened to your talk in Govardhan, for two reasons. I like very much the bhava which you bring, this mood, like you sang: We only need Radharani! We only need Radharani! And you explained seven ashrayas which I have to go. I felt very, very happy and some almost like.. yes, great utsahan came in my heart. It was really a present which I took from that visit, that we only need Radharani. YES! It is true! I felt like this. And the second reason I was very happy that you pursue `The Yamuna cause` so strongly.

[PADA: Why do people need to get outside advice that "we only need to worship Radharani" from Ramesh Babaji? Srila Prabhupada taught us already that we need to pray for the mercy of both Radha AND Krishna together. Srila Prabhupada says we cannot worship Krishna without Radha and we cannot worship Radha without Krishna, why should this policy be changed? Then again, the worship of Radharani is done by the intimate gopis and sakhis in Krishna's inner circle of associates, so this is another sahajiya program, promoting the most advanced forms of worship among neophytes.]

Ramesh Baba: Yes!

Sacinandana Swami: I am very happy and I am always telling Madayanti she should make that her main work because she has some political understanding, and she can, maybe, help in some ways.

Today I want to ask very important question for me. I was visiting your yatra and I immediately could feel, there was so much affection between the devotees. Somehow, by your guidance, you have created a very affectionate relationship among the devotees. You also spoke about this. On the first day you said: trnad api sunicena. There should be no fights. Everyone should be humble, and then the yatra will be successful. I noticed that because, as you know, I am a member of a movement and when I come and visit you, my first reason is: I come to visit a person who I like so much, but then I also look how is he doing everything to be so nice. Like this...That interest is there.

[PADA: This is actually a real and huge problem for the contemporary Krishna devotees, there is little unity or "love and trust" and there are a number of divided camps. Unfortunately, Sacinandana swami is one of the persons responsible for the main cause of all these schisms by his support of the worst clique of all, the GBC's gurus. 

Instead of visiting with our Prabhupadanuga associates, Sacinandana is visiting with the Babajis. And instead of making "a nice friendly family of devotees" with us, the Sacinandana program is spending allegedly $20 million dollars suing the Prabhupada devotees to have our folks driven out of ISKCON. 

Where is his family mood? 

Worse, current and ex-members of Sacinandana's so-called ISKCON family have to keep posting "fundme" collections for those in dire need of basic material welfare, thus they cannot afford to get health care, housing, heating bills paid etc. -- but there is meanwhile apparently $20 million to spend on lawyers in Sacinandana's program to sue -- us? One temple sent us an advertisement where they were collecting money for a washing machine for the temple's clothes to be washed. They cannot afford to wash their devotee's clothes, but there is always plenty of money for Mercedes for their hokey gurus and millions for lawyers?

The main counter group that is organizing outside the GBC are the so-called ritviks, and this program is growing gradually. However, to be fair this is a valid point made by Sacinanandana swami, there seems to be little cooperation, love, trust and care among the various Krishna groups, and this is hampering the growth of the overall program, just like the Gaudiya Matha's schisms hampered if not destroyed their preaching. Some devotees recently reported how nice they felt going to a "Mother Amma" program because the people there were so nice, caring and affectionate. 

Yep, treating people nicely is attractive. 

Caring for one's fellow congregation members is also attractive. For example: in our hometown area, the Mormon Church has all sorts of outreach and support systems for their members. They have a food bank for their poor members; They send expert plumbers and carpenters (who are their own church's members) over to fix poor people's homes; They are sending young men over to the homes of the elderly in their church to assist the elderly etc. 

They even have an "elder watch" program that was visiting an elderly lady neighbor's house on our street, to make sure she was OK. Eventually, she died, and then they sent another crew of men over there with a big truck to clean up her house and help the relatives deal with the situation. In sum, they have love and concern for one another, that is something we are not seeing very much in the Krishna community. As one person told us, "You can judge a society by how well it treats its members, and the overall Krishna community does little or nothing to look after its members, unless one is in the upper crust management, in which case one will live like a Saudi Prince."] 

The second thing is - I've also noticed this bhava, so strong! It comes from you and your devotees picked it up, all these padayatris.

[PADA: That's the first problem, Srila Prabhupada wanted his devotees to be preaching in the West and not all the time going on "parikramas" and "padayatras" around Vrndavana, Goverdhan etc., which seems to be the main program nowadays. This is the result of this Babaji association, the preaching is going down and the ISKCON devotees are hanging out in Vrndavana trying to find some "rasika Babaji association" instead.] 

In my spiritual life I came to the level or to the understanding that I feel very strongly a need to feel like a relationship to Radha and Krishna; some sambandha. Because only then bhava can come. And I know, without bhava I (and I`m not speaking now about the stage before prema, just normal bhava) without this everything is just so much work and one needs to push himself and others.

[PADA: If one STILL needs to find a way to experience the bhava platform, then one is NOT yet self-realized, and one is NOT qualified to be in the post of guru. This is what we find all the time in ISKCON, the guru is "trying to find a way" to stop watching football, drink near beer, have illicit sex, and so on, because ISKCON is advertising neophytes as pure gurus, this is sahajiya on steroids.]

So, if you could be so kind to speak a little bit on the subject matter of sambandha, or relationship to Radha and Krishna, and to feel some feelings there. Because if there are no feelings for Radha and Krishna, these feeling will be for the material things. I believe that is your secret you have, and I'm coming as a beggar to beg some bhava from you, or some instructions.

[PADA: Its no secret, their not following Srila Prabhupada is causing these GBC gurus to fall down left, right and center. They are not experiencing the higher taste because they are trying to usurp the post of acharya, which is a material desire.]

Ramesh Baba: Relationship with Sriji... the source of relationship is only that we should love the lovers of Radharani, devotees. And without love to the devotees, there is nothing. One cannot achieve anything.

[PADA: Correct, declaring war on the Srila Prabhupada devotees and kicking them all out has made ISKCON into almost nothing. Even Lokanatha swami wrote in 1988 that ISKCON has become "a ghost town, where have they all gone"? Well, you and your program drove them all out. So this is quite correct, without love for the devotees, there is nothing, and ISKCON is a classic example of this, their temples are empty, because they have no love for the vaishnavas.] 

The main difficulty in our Vaishnava communities: the friction of..."We are Gaudiya, he is European, he is English, he is Indian, he is Bengali, he is Maharashtri..." These all things are the hindrances of Bhakti Marga. In Braja bhumi every yatra hates Bengalis, but we have great care and respect for Bengalis. There is no provinciality, no difference: sadhu, grihasti, there is no difference of caste, so the pure nectar of devotion runs in yatra.

[PADA: We have heard this complaint before that the Bengalis are not so much welcome in Vrndavana -- one reason -- because there has a number of Bengali "widows" there who are seen as a burden. Of course, Bengal is the birth place of Lord Chaitanya, so you'd think they would welcome these folks? This simply proves that there is still social status consciousness, class consciousness, caste and racial discrimination, even in the holy dham.]

There is no difference of money; "he is giving", "he's rich man", "we expect something". There is no difference. Everybody lives in the same tent and no facilities, lies on earth, sleeps on earth and the same food - prasad. Nothing superior in anything for anyone else. This is the main factor. No selfish motive from anybody.

[PADA: This is a good program, if this is how it works, all the members have equal facility. ISKCON used to work like that, all the brahmacharis lived in one room, the brahmacharinis lived in another, there was no special deal for the "big GBC gurus" to live in their own opulent private places.] 

Sacinandana Swami: Thank you. You have given very important instructions. First the relationship to devotees. Without that...

[PADA: That is always the question, how come Sacinandana's gurus drive out all of the Prabhupada devotees, then they go to the Babajis for association?]

Ramesh Baba: It is quite impossible. If you are not loving devotee, it is impossible for anybody. Whether he is educated, or he is non-educated ...

Sacinandana Swami: Yes, it makes a lot of sense. I think Sriji expects that Her devotees are full of daya, full of compassion, not full of bheda of making differences. Like always, you have given a lot of information in a short sentence.

Ramesh Baba: Everybody is narrow-minded. He is saint, he is grihasti, he is male gender, she is female gender, he is Gaudiya, he is ISKCON, he is not ISKCON...

Sacinandana Swami: (laugh of approval) Ja...

[PADA: Clearly, Sacinandana Swami is embarrassed to be known as a member of ISKCON. It has now become officially a joke to be a member of ISKCON, because the GBC has destroyed its credibility. Now people are making fun of how silly it is to be either -- a member -- or non-member of ISKCON, and the leaders are laughing too, because they know the mission has lost its credibility. 

If we would tell some Christians that it does not matter if they are members of their church or not, they would be highly offended because they are proud to be a member of their particular church. Thus, even the GBC leaders feel no pride in being a member of ISKCON, because they have driven the reputation down the drain, so even they are joking "who cares if one is a member of our church or not." Doesn't that means they never cared about the reputation of the movement the whole time?]

Sacinandana Swami: It seems, and I may ask question of this: I understand fully what you've said. I can see the truth in it, it seems that movements who have missionary goals in their eyes want money and they need money and they need people, and therefore because, they want to attain certain goals, they try to make their group strong so that they can reach their goals and at that time, they have this differentiation in there. I see that you, I know that you don't want to make a big movement, but so many people come on your yatra, more than anyone, and there is this goshala with 30,000 cows are there, I mean, it is now becoming something very big. Ramesh baba is not longer just...

Ramesh Baba: At the beginning there was just 5 cows, and now there is 30 000, more then, and every day increasing.

Sacinandana Swami: Yes, yes, every day and no cow is sent away. So, somehow, Ramesh babaji has also become a really big organisation, he may not have wanted it but it is growing and still you are able to have no differentiation. Don't you sometimes come in situation that you say:" I want to attain this, I want Yamunaji to come back to Braj, I need to have some people who work on this and I need some money and they should not go anywhere else." and then, I'm trying to say that in organizations who want to do good sometimes this idea of differentiation and "let's keep our own people", this is ISKCON, this is not ISKCON (laughter), and so on, that comes...

[PADA: Yes this is silly, being a member of ISKCON or not, its become a joke to be "one of the ISKCON men," and even the leaders are agreeing. The leaders have made ISKCON into such a joke, people no longer want to be identified as a member, including the leaders, even they are laughing at the concept of being or not being a member.]

Ramesh Baba: That situation came with me also. Due to lack of money, 2 years before I announced no yatra will be held. But it was only false words. My heart was singing: "no! Yatra will run." and see what happens, because people were giving money for help and they...

Some man: They were diverted actually.

Ramesh Baba: So our sources were... And without sources it was only a show. But who are saints living here, I called a meeting: "What should we do?" The saints answered that we will collect madhukari, begging, you know?

[PADA: Right, people are giving up on ISKCON and supporting other programs.]

Sacinandana Swami: Yes, yes, a few chapatis.

Ramesh Baba: And more than 10 000 yatris we will fulfill. The program was made, "I will give you a Jeep, and ten saints in this village, ten in second village, ten in third village". In this way, if we make more than 100 teams, that will be easy, no need of money, but Sriji gave the source, some money and it is again running.

Better to stop the yatra, not to share ? arrangement. We can not go doors to doors for donation. It is quite impossible.

Sacinandana Swami: Yes, Sriji has given you this nistha...

Ramesh Baba: Yatra is not a prestige point of Maan mandir. If it is not running, all right. As Sriji wants. If She is not wanting, stop that. We will collect madhukari, and not for begging money for anybody.

Sacinandana Swami: I very much admire your faith in Sriji and your absolute dependence on Her.

Ramesh Baba: The same is case is ? yatra. ? More than crores of rupies.

Man: Many crores.

Ramesh Baba: Means many dollars. But we don't go for collection. This yatra is the biggest of the previous yatras. More than 15 000.

Man: Baba, more than 17 point something registrations are already there. But there are many, many devotees who come every year, never do registration, so they are more than 2000-3000, so approximately, more than 20,000 this year.

Ramesh Baba: And, panditji said: "Do not run yearly, it should run on donating years.", but Radha can't say no if run yearly.

Sacinandana Swami: I remember when you were in Kamyavan and you were protesting against the exploitation of the mountains, you said: "We are in the government of Radharani". That's out government. Alla Beli? Alla belli means government? I remember still.

Ramesh Baba: "You need government, Alla belli".

Sacinandana Swami: Acca, yes, yes. I remember this. We are all trying to be devotees, when someone lives this full surrender: "We don't need anyone else than Radharani, only Radharani's will, the government of Radharani.", this is a dream, which we all have to live on that level, but I think it's only possible. You please correct me, but is my thinking correct, you can only make yourself totally dependent on Radharani and not make any own security arrangements when you are accepted like this by Radharani.

[PADA: Well this is good, we should only depend on Krishna, so why does the GBC depend instead on false guru appointments, and subsequent banning, beating and assassinating people to stay in power?]

Sacinandana swami: I want to give you an example: I had this very severe problem, shingle case, I came from Australia, and I had done my booking in the daily hospital. When I would come from Australia, I would go right into the daily hospital, Ayur Vedic hospital, for treating this problem, because it was so bad, the pain was so big, I couldn't sleep for 3 weeks. It was really bad.

[PADA: This is another pattern here, these gurus are almost always getting sick, falling down, or both. In fact these gurus chronic sickness is clearly an epidemic since, many (or most) of them have been -- or are -- currently sick, if not very sick, and a number have already died.]

Chronic Health Problems in GBC Gurus?

Then, I said, well, now I am in Delhi, I can't go directly to the hospital, let me go to Vrindavan, to Radhakund, let me do some bhajan, then I'll go to hospital. When I went to Radhakund, I felt, o Braj is so wonderful, do I really need to go to the hospital, and I said to myself, why don't I follow Ramesh baba's idea. Radharani is my hospital, I though like this, so for seven days, I didn't go to the hospital, but I stayed at Radha-kund, and I was hoping I would be able to stay the whole day and Radharani would give her injections and take care.

But, the pain became just so bad and so strong that the devotees who were with me, said: "You must go to the hospital. " Then, after one week, I went to the daily hospital and came back in the last week of Kartik.

So my question is: Does it work for everyone, that he says, Radharani is the only, I don't need the hospital and daily, Radharani is the only government and so on or does it only work for Ramesh baba? I am sorry to ask this question, in German, I hope I'm not impolite in speaking.

Ramesh Baba: Such type of faith and concentration was with Prahlad ji. When he was burned in fire, and ultimate weapons were used for Prahlada. And more than atomic weapons. Dangers. Digaraj, the Deities who are holding the whole direction. They were brought by the order of Hiranyakasipu. And all were in vain, only Prahlada succeeded. Such type of faith is in the hand of Sri Ji, not in the hand of any man. Human bodied.

Sacinandana Swami: It has to be given by Sri ji.

Ramesh Baba: Yes, she will give you, a day will come. In the same way, My yatra is ?, when all finances were stopped, every help was stopped. But due to mercy of Radharani it is alive.

Sacinandana Swami: Practical proof. Practical proof. Yes. Thank you very much for your ...

Ramesh Baba: If yatra is stopped, let it be stopped. But we are not going in the shelter of any rich person. If it is stopped, stop it.

Sacinandana Swami: Thank you very much, you satisfied my heart very much with your answers. Thank you very much. Very much appreciated, that you talked philosophically and practically. Yes. I understand.

Ramesh Baba: Locan bubble burst, and the wall was damaged. There are four walls in the heart, one of them was damaged. Eight doctors came here to see me, and they suggested for operation. But I was not in the mood of that. Better to die.

Sacinandana Swami: You have done many, many years of great seva here in Braj. You are very dear to Radharani. We can all see and respect that. Wonderful. Yes. No, we can all see it and we are very touched to see someone. And it was not easy, I remember, in the very begging when you stayed here, some bad people were coming with sticks. I believe, they didn't want you to be here. I've heard something, and I was staying here for the month of Kartik. You had to pay the price to Radharani. I am staying here. I will do my ...

Ramesh Baba: 60 years ago, Maan mandir was a place of dacoits.

[PADA: Well right, Srila Prabhupada mentions that dacoits sometimes live near the holy places to attack the pilgrims.]

Sacinandana Swami: And why did you come to Maan mandir?

Ramesh Baba: It was only one place in Vraja, alone, It was not occupied actually, and it was very sacred according to epics. No one was visiting this place because of dacoits. In the day, one can not come here in Maan Mandir. Daytime.

Sacinandana Swami: Night, no question? We thank you very much. We brought present from your dear beloved Sri ji, from Sri Ji Mandir this morning, she was wearing. Can I give? Thank you very, very much, we wish you all success. I will not take more of your time.

And thank you also for your kindness to allow us use your hall. I spoke today in the begging about your nistha, that the Holly name brings Krishna. Badri-vishal prabhu, he told me that ten months ago, the Deities in Sankit were actually stolen, and you were asked to make the installation or the prana pratistha ceremony for newly purchased Deities. And you said: "No, no. Better you do harinam and that will bring Krishna." Then later, the Deity was found by some policemen who checked one man who was on a bicycle and he found out he had the bag with Deities on his bicycle. And this way by the chanting the Deity came back.

I told them: "This is Ramesh baba, who is giving us hall for this day, has said: "the Nam brings Radha and Krishna."

I thank you very much, for your nistha, it is a great joy for all the Vaisnavas to hear what you say on the nistha and to see how you move. You are inspiring, not only the yatris but really everywhere, you give so much inspiration and especially because you don't make this bheda. This difference. That is a very good point. Somehow your heart does not know "this Vaisnava, or that Vaisnava". It is very good. We can all learn a lot from this example.

Thank you much. I will not take more of your time. You are studying, you are now with the sastras and I should not take more time. You've given already so much santosh to my heart. I wish you all the best. Good health, may you stay many years amongst us because we need good examples. We need such good examples.

With your permission, I will go.
Hare Krishna.

[PADA: Right, we should not make distinctions based on bodily platform, except, as soon as someone does not want to worship the GBC's debauchee guru program they should be sued and kicked out. Oh no, and Sacinandana Swami is in charge of this program?:] 

==================================

Bhaktivedanta College a Feminist Stronghold

BY: KRISHNA DASA

It is not surprising that Bhaktivedanta College in Radhadesha is so confused about the questions that Haladhara Prabhu asked in Reflections on Vaisnavi-dharma. They actually reject what Srila Prabhupada and sastra say about women's duties and concoct their own idea. How has this come about? By the influence of feminists like Urmila dd, Laxmimoni dd, Annuttama Prabhu and his wife Rukmini, Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu and Sacinandana Swami.

[PADA: Women as a class have been alienated from post-1977 ISKCON due to mistreatment and exploitation. Then again, almost all the men have almost all left as well. Then again the second generation of ISKCON gurukula children have almost all been alienated and have left as well. The GBC are trying to encourage the few remaining women they have left, by offering them a post as gurus and shastric advisory leaders, otherwise they won't have practically anyone left.]   

Sacinandana Swami has a big influence at Bhaktivedanta College because the husband of Anupama dd, Dinadayal Prabhu is a disciple of Sacinandana Swami. Dinadayal Prabhu is one of the heads at Bhaktivedanta College plus has a big role in the Euro GBC.

[PADA: Correct, Sacinanandana Swami is clearly part of the Radha Kunda babaji sahajiya culture of ISKCON, and so the GBC makes him the leader of their biggest Bhaktivedanta College program, because the whole GBC group is compromised with the babaji sahajiya culture.]

This nonsense about women having their own varna with their own duties is especially promoted by Urmila dd, (who considers herself a brahmana in her own right and promotes herself as an acarya and guru). Why is it nonsense? Because the only duty that the woman has is to serve her husband as explained by Narada Muni in Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.25:

"To render service to the husband, to be always favorably disposed toward the husband, to be equally well disposed toward the husband's relatives and friends, and to follow the vows of the husband — these are the four principles to be followed by women described as chaste."

[PADA: Well yes, women in the West were previously almost always in the role of a house-wife, and this was the case all along in Christian culture even up to the 1960s. And these women were seen as dependent on their "male wage earner" partners. Such roles are changing in Western society, and even in Christian culture today, but overall Srila Prabhupada encouraged women to be married (as the Christians have done up to recently).] 

To understand what I mean by rebellious and unchaste (recalling Narada Muni's definition of a chaste woman SB 7.11.25) take a look at this text by Pratyatosha Prabhu, Urmila's former husband. He explains how Urmila dd developed an unchaste relationship with another man, Bir Krsna Goswami, and conspired with him to have her husband Pratyatosa Prabhu removed from the board of directors of the school they had started. She then forced him into a legal separation. He writes:

"In 1996, she obtained a restraining order and a legal separation from me against my wishes. Now that I've been gone for over 3 years, BKG is more than likely still doing things for her that a husband would normally do."

[PADA: Right, we heard the cottage of Urmila and Bir Krishna were not far apart in the woods and they could easily be with one another. In any case Bir Krishna became Urmila's confidential advisor.]

Yet she claims in her application to be a guru that: "My situation has been stable for some time. I'm living separated from husband as vanaprastha since 1996; we have a legal separation agreement. I'm under the authority of our sons and son-in-law. I will soon have own cabin for residence."

(urmiladasi.wordpress.com)

In vanaprastha it s the husband who is the vanaprastha, not the wife, she continues to serve him. But in Urmila's typical twisted logic she is the "vanaprastha" and having an unchaste relationship with another man forces her husband to leave. She has violated sastra by renouncing her prescribed duties Bg 18.7-8.

Thus to rationalize her adharmaic and unchaste behavior Urmila dd has concocted a bogus philosophy that women have their own varna and duties so that she can act independently. And since she is allowed to have an influence in ISKCON by fellow feminists in the NA GBC (Bir Krsna Goswami (her mentor and maybe more), Anuttama, Malati, Bhakti Marga Swami, Ravindra Swarupa et al.) who all have a major influence at the Bhaktivedanta College. She then teaches her concocted appasiddhantic ideas at the Bhaktivedanta College and it is then no wonder why the college is philosophically at odds with sastra and put women in charge of teaching men.

[PADA: Its more than that really, the Shastric Advisory Committee (SAC) also advises the GBC's gurus, so these people are not just advising men, they are advising the GBC's messiahs. And they expect to be rewarded for their aiding the GBC guru process, by being voted in as "female gurus."]

So here we have textbook example of an unchaste woman*, Urmila dd, being promoted by the leadership of the NA GBC to be a diksha guru in ISKCON. She is now also the Chairman of the SAC (Sastra Advisory Committee), and is using this position along with other corrupt members of SAC like Yadunanda Swami (principle of Bhaktivedanta College), Drutakarma, Madana Mohana, Caitanya Charan (Pune) et al. to persuade the GBC to install Female Diksha Gurus. She of course wants to be one of them.

[PADA: Right, not many people are stepping up to take the post of messiah for the GBC these days, if they can get some women on board that will help keep the hokey messiah's program moving along for a little longer, otherwise it is dying out.]

So considering all the secular influences on this school it is not surprising that in such a short time Bhaktivedanta College has already become useless. Any student who attends this college will be permanently scarred spiritually and it will take a great deal of effort for them to ever have the correct understanding of siddhanta.

Respected universities like Oxford and Cambridge started out as schools of theology but over time compromised with secular society and are now bastions of atheism. If in such a short time secular culture has gotten such a strong grip at Bhaktivedanta College, the future doesn't look good. And considering that the sentimentalist sahajiya Sacinandana Swami has a strong influence there we can only imagine what this strange brew will produce.

[PADA: Right, concocted "voted in" women gurus, sahajiya culture, this is going to create a whole new wave of further problems for ISKCON, and it will take it even further away from Srila Prabhupada's teachings.]

*We would never allow a sannyasi,** vanaprastha, grhasta or brahmacari who didn't follow the dharma of their respective ashrama to give class. Why then should we allow an unchaste woman (Urmila dd) who rejects Stri-dharma to give classes in ISKCON, what to speak of being a teacher at Bhaktivedanta College or chairperson of the SAC!

**Maybe that is changing since Sacinandana Swami is practically, for all intents and purposes, married to his girlfriend Bhanunandini dd.

[PADA: Oh boy, this does not sound good, does Sacinandana Swami have a "female assistant" like some of these other GBC gurus? ys pd]

==================================

[PADA: Previous story, Sacinandana swami connection to Mahanidhi's Radha Kunda Babaji program:

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2013/08/mahanidhi-scandal-expands-other-iskcon.html]

=====================================

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2013/06/how-bhakta-das-william-benedict-ruined.html

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2014/02/bv-puri-maharaja-all-over-map.html

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2014/09/gaudiya-matha-and-iskcon-brief-history.html