Thursday, October 31, 2019
Srila Prabhupada Disappearance Day 10/31/19
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2018/11/srila-prabhupadas-disappearance-day.html
GURU IS THE MERCY INCARNATION OF GOD.
Prajāpati: ...śaktyāveśa-avatāra?
Srila Prabhupāda: Guru is the mercy incarnation of God, mercy incarnation. God is kind to everyone, so He is teaching everyone from within, but still, to make it still more explicit, He sends His mercy in the form of guru.
Prajāpati: The śaktyāveśa-avatāra means Kṛṣṇa coming in a form of a living entity empowered by him for some special purpose.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Candanācārya: Guru is greater than śaktyāveśa-avatāra.
Prabhupāda: No, guru is considered as Kṛṣṇa Himself. Guru-rūpa kṛṣṇa hana avatāra. Just to teach the conditioned soul, guru comes himself, er, Kṛṣṇa comes Himself in the form of guru. Therefore we sing in the Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura's prayer, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ: "In every śāstra, guru is accepted as directly Kṛṣṇa." Sākṣāt. Sākṣāt means directly. Sākṣād-dharitvena: As Kṛṣṇa, is accepted in every śāstra, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ, it is said, uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ, and this statement is accepted by advanced devotees. It is not only statement, but it is accepted.
But the next question is: "Does it mean that guru is Kṛṣṇa? Therefore no more Kṛṣṇa wanted?" No. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya: "Guru is exalted because he is very confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa." Here it is clear. Not that he is respected as Kṛṣṇa, therefore he has become Kṛṣṇa. This is Māyāvāda: "He has become Kṛṣṇa." No. Kintu: "But don't think that there is no more Kṛṣṇa, finished. Guru is here." Just like the Māyāvādīs say, just like this rascal Guruji, that "I am Kṛṣṇa." Not that. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. He is the most confidential servant. Vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam.
This is clear explanation. Although he is respected as good as Kṛṣṇa, but he never says that "I am Kṛṣṇa." He says, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." And actually he is the most confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we distinguish in this line that sevya-bhagavān and sevaka-bhagavān: "worshipable God and worshiper God." You follow? God, but worshiper God.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Person Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Both of them God, but one God is worshipable, and another God is worshiper. So for the disciple, both of them are worshipable because both of them are God. That is the distinction. Sevya-bhagavān, sevaka-bhagavān.
Prajāpati: Therefore, when we hear the words of guru, we are actually hearing Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. If you please guru, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased because he is saying the same thing. Just like we are... What we are doing? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja BG 18.66 . We are saying that "You just surrender to Kṛṣṇa." We are inventing nothing. Therefore I am guru. Because I am saying Kṛṣṇa's words, not my words, therefore I am guru. As soon as I say my words, then I am not guru. This is the significance.
[Excerpt from Morning Walk Conversation-Los Angeles-December 15, 1973.]
=======================
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Person Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Both of them God, but one God is worshipable, and another God is worshiper. So for the disciple, both of them are worshipable because both of them are God. That is the distinction. Sevya-bhagavān, sevaka-bhagavān.
Prajāpati: Therefore, when we hear the words of guru, we are actually hearing Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. If you please guru, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased because he is saying the same thing. Just like we are... What we are doing? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja BG 18.66 . We are saying that "You just surrender to Kṛṣṇa." We are inventing nothing. Therefore I am guru. Because I am saying Kṛṣṇa's words, not my words, therefore I am guru. As soon as I say my words, then I am not guru. This is the significance.
[Excerpt from Morning Walk Conversation-Los Angeles-December 15, 1973.]
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Wednesday, October 30, 2019
Tuesday, October 29, 2019
REPLY to: Keeping the Disciplic Succession Alive (Hemasarira das)
Comment from Hemasarira das.
Prabhupada mentions "40 years of fighting" within the Gaudiya-matha camp where practically the GM crashed into a meaningless village organization. Same today, forty years of inner conflicts and splits turned ISKCON in the West into a meaningless cult no intelligent Westerner can take seriously.
Prabhupada mentions "40 years of fighting" within the Gaudiya-matha camp where practically the GM crashed into a meaningless village organization. Same today, forty years of inner conflicts and splits turned ISKCON in the West into a meaningless cult no intelligent Westerner can take seriously.
"Christianity won".
[PADA: Yes, well since we have people like Kamra devi telling the newcomers that they cannot worship a guru like Srila Prabhupada, because that would be like marrying the dead corpse of Amelia Earhart, the ISKCON devotees are chasing people away in droves. Who wants to participate in a religion that worships the equal of the dead corpse of Emilia Earhart? And worse, Kamra says the acharya is a dead / Emilia Earhart corpse program / is how she will "keep the succession alive."
Do people actually read what they write before they print it?
And that's why so many devotees like: GBC folks / Gaudiya Matha folks / Rocana / Kailash / Hanuman Croatia et al. tell us that our idea is the worship of the post samadhi, posthumous, post mortem dead party, aka the acharya of ISKCON Srila Prabhupada.
OK so we Prabhupadanugas are promoting worshiping the dead, which is like marrying the dead corpse Emilia Earhart according to folks like Kamra devi. Then people tell me the ISKCON temples are like an empty morgue. Well no kidding, you guys made it an empty morgue by declaring the guru is dead and gone, and the acharya is equal to the dead corpse of Emilia Earhart.
Thanks to God that I grew up as a Christian!
And thus I know that the theme "Jesus is a alive" is what keeps them going for 2,000 years. No Christian ever says Jesus is another dead corpse like Amelia Earhart. They know they have an eternal connection to their guru which has went on for 2,000 years because they understand the principle that the acharya is eternal.
So ISKCON has splintered in so many ways, but most of the splintered camps are seeking "the living person" and so they have run off to Sridhara Maharaja, Narayan Maharaja, and GBC gurus like Radhanath and so on. Very few people agreed with us that Srila Prabhupada is not the same as the dead corpse of Amelia Earhart -- and so they unitedly joined the dead guru sampradaya of Kamra and etc.
All glories to -- the dead corpse of Amelia Earhart, and then they wonder why their religion is empty? And you are right, they cannot attract people with discrimination because worshiping the living deviants process in not attractive.
Yes the Christian's won. Their police force, courts, media and FBI had to save me from the GBC's molester guru process. And almost cent percent of the "original devotees" also had to jettison ISKCON and go back to living in their "mundane society" of the Christians. That is because ISKCON has become nearly uninhabitable for most folks, whereas the Christian society is at least a whole lot more sane, safe and habitable -- and no small amount of more pious evidently.
And that is also why the ISKCON leaders are now desperate for support after losing most of the Westerners, trying to work out a deal with all sorts of Hindu congregation members and making Hindu types the legal registered temple authorities and so on, to keep their properties going. That is because the Westerners have largely abandoned their ship. One guru even said "we do not want to make Western devotees, its too much trouble." He just wants to pad his wallet with money from the Hindus.
In any case, the people who worship a bona fide acharya like Jesus will always be superior to the people who worship false gurus, at least that is the lesson many of us took from all this. Thus the Christian's police had to raid the GBC guru's criminal temples, and the Christian's court had to take down the GBC's child molesting process and so on. So, a blind uncle is better than none.
Do people actually read what they write before they print it?
And that's why so many devotees like: GBC folks / Gaudiya Matha folks / Rocana / Kailash / Hanuman Croatia et al. tell us that our idea is the worship of the post samadhi, posthumous, post mortem dead party, aka the acharya of ISKCON Srila Prabhupada.
OK so we Prabhupadanugas are promoting worshiping the dead, which is like marrying the dead corpse Emilia Earhart according to folks like Kamra devi. Then people tell me the ISKCON temples are like an empty morgue. Well no kidding, you guys made it an empty morgue by declaring the guru is dead and gone, and the acharya is equal to the dead corpse of Emilia Earhart.
Thanks to God that I grew up as a Christian!
And thus I know that the theme "Jesus is a alive" is what keeps them going for 2,000 years. No Christian ever says Jesus is another dead corpse like Amelia Earhart. They know they have an eternal connection to their guru which has went on for 2,000 years because they understand the principle that the acharya is eternal.
So ISKCON has splintered in so many ways, but most of the splintered camps are seeking "the living person" and so they have run off to Sridhara Maharaja, Narayan Maharaja, and GBC gurus like Radhanath and so on. Very few people agreed with us that Srila Prabhupada is not the same as the dead corpse of Amelia Earhart -- and so they unitedly joined the dead guru sampradaya of Kamra and etc.
All glories to -- the dead corpse of Amelia Earhart, and then they wonder why their religion is empty? And you are right, they cannot attract people with discrimination because worshiping the living deviants process in not attractive.
Yes the Christian's won. Their police force, courts, media and FBI had to save me from the GBC's molester guru process. And almost cent percent of the "original devotees" also had to jettison ISKCON and go back to living in their "mundane society" of the Christians. That is because ISKCON has become nearly uninhabitable for most folks, whereas the Christian society is at least a whole lot more sane, safe and habitable -- and no small amount of more pious evidently.
And that is also why the ISKCON leaders are now desperate for support after losing most of the Westerners, trying to work out a deal with all sorts of Hindu congregation members and making Hindu types the legal registered temple authorities and so on, to keep their properties going. That is because the Westerners have largely abandoned their ship. One guru even said "we do not want to make Western devotees, its too much trouble." He just wants to pad his wallet with money from the Hindus.
In any case, the people who worship a bona fide acharya like Jesus will always be superior to the people who worship false gurus, at least that is the lesson many of us took from all this. Thus the Christian's police had to raid the GBC guru's criminal temples, and the Christian's court had to take down the GBC's child molesting process and so on. So, a blind uncle is better than none.
Even now sometime regular "karmi" people write me and they simply are appalled at the GBC idea that we need to worship deviants as some sort of gurus and messiahs. That is because they understand the first principle of spiritual life, we have to have a bona fide acharya as the foundation, whether it is Jesus or another pure devotee, or else nothing else will stand on a false foundation of worship of a conditioned soul as the guru. In the Vedas this is called "acharya upasanam," first, you need to take shelter of the acharya.]
Of course in India, any hodge-podge is accepted so long there is material opulence. Poor Indians throng to the ISKCON temples to improve their material condition.
[PADA: Correct. Some Hindus see opulent Western guys riding around in big cars, carrying around expensive Apple laptops, and they think, if we hitch ourselves to this wagon we might get some mundane benefits, salary, post and so on. And many have. At the same time, some of them are sincere and they get on board only to get disillusioned later, like some of the ex-GBC people who write me from India. Not everyone simply wants to hook up with a materially opulent program to get some sort of mundane benefit in the name of religion, but many will, because in India there are a lot of materially desperate people.]
Why the Russians take ISKCON seriously might be a kind of temporary excitement. Already there are devotees getting doubts about the management. There are of course — started by Prabhupada — quite some temple buildings in the West that attract visitors. Some are even mentioned in tourist brochures. So people go there to relax, "there is some good energy there". But Prabhupada's system of temple life is practically dead. So actually Prabhupada did not approve these year-long fights.
[PADA: Yes, a number of Russian devotees have been writing to PADA and they are totally losing faith in the GBC's guru process. Dhaneshvara das is also in Russia preaching about the "Divine and Demoniac" leaders of ISKCON, and that the GBC's core cadre poisoned Prabhupada, so they have defectors even from within their own camp over there.]
[PADA: Yes, a number of Russian devotees have been writing to PADA and they are totally losing faith in the GBC's guru process. Dhaneshvara das is also in Russia preaching about the "Divine and Demoniac" leaders of ISKCON, and that the GBC's core cadre poisoned Prabhupada, so they have defectors even from within their own camp over there.]
Prabhupada: But at the present moment, we'll go on talking for years together, and nobody is defeated; nobody is going to be disciple. Then what is the use of talking like that? So this kind of things will not do. We have to follow the Vedic principle that either remain without guru... And if you want to make a guru, first of all, be convinced that "He is fit to become my guru." (Honolulu, May 22, 1976)
In other words, if one party is unable to defeat the other party then Prabhupada says: If he is unable to defeat the opposing party, then the next step is that he should not just stand there meekly, but should give up his life. The third process is followed if he is unable to execute the above-mentioned two processes, and this is that one must leave the place and go away. If a devotee does not follow any of the above-mentioned three processes, he falls down from his position of devotion.
[PADA: Yes, shastra says if we cannot defeat the other party with superior arguments, we are advised to give up our life. I don't think Srila Prabhupada and Krishna want us to do that factually. However, that is happening anyway, in a sort of slow motion back door process -- in any case.
Many devotees are giving up their bodies prematurely, and we think it is connected to their depression over the dismantling of ISKCON. More than a few people told me they have "lost their will to live." For example, one woman told me that in 1986, she has lost her will to live. And 12 months later I was at her bedside as she was dying of terminal cancer. And she was unconscious for quite a while but as I left, I put my hand on her forehead. And she opened her eyes and said "Haribol Puranjan." She sort of let me know, she was checking out of here, and she did.
My friend's wife is a nurse of 20 years and she thinks the ISKCON "premature deaths" process is very much like the problem she has with some of her patients. These patients "lose their will to thrive." In other words, they no longer want to continue keeping their soul in this particular body, they have essentially given up hope. They would rather leave than stay.
And she says, the other nurses talk about the problem in the back room, "Patient X has no will to thrive, we cannot cure this patient." And so they sort of sit back and try to keep the patient as comfortable as possible, and almost all the time their predictions comes true, these patients pass away, nothing can be done to save them. So a lot of devotees have died from terminal illness, and some from drug and / or alcohol overdose and so forth, a lack of will to thrive.
I am not sure what the actual problem is here as far as standing up to the evil doers with good arguments? Anyone who says acharyas are not having illicit sex with men, women and children immediately has the superior argument. It seems to me a lot of people just do not want to apply the superior argument "to keep friends" with various ISKCON people. Sentimentalism.
However, Arjuna was told by Krishna that yes, you can go sit under a tree and avoid the battle, but the battle will consume your existence in other ways. And that has happened to so many uncountable folks who tried to avoid confronting the evil doers, but they got sucked into the battle or results of the battle anyway -- exactly as the Bhagavad Gita describes will likely happen.
Of course when people say that their idea of keeping the parampara alive is to compare the parampara to marrying a dead woman like Emilia Earhart, that is pretty depressing itself. Sheesh!
Even Madhu Pandit is now rejected by many ritviks, what is the point here?
PADA: Yes, we get complaints about the Bangalore program on a regular basis from various people. First of all, why are so many people even discussing Bangalore? Its because these folks have made at least some sort of project with at least some degree of success. Otherwise, if Bangalore was not making any large scale temples and akshaya patra and other programs, no one would have even notice they existed.
So that is really the first problem, most -- if not all -- of the critics of Bangalore cannot do something for preaching on a large scale themselves. Worse, most of these critics cannot even make a small scale -- anything of substance program -- such as a teeny little home sized preaching program themselves. Or its very rare.
And most of these critics have not made much progress since 1997 when Bangalore first broke off and started their process going. Ok they are probably not going to do much in this lifetime if they cannot get themselves into gear since 1997. Some of these critics have been going along since 1997, and what have they got to show as their alternate "better program" since then?
Let's ask for example, why aren't hardly any of them making a teeny little home preaching program, gathering of a small handful of people, making their house or apartment into a small temple? And did we forget to mention that the now very large Bangalore temple process itself started from a small rented property and it grew from there. The critics are barely not even starting the seedling process for the most part?
So Bangalore needs to "work with the other ritvik programs," which are far and few between self evidently, or don't even seem to exist practically on another level. And a lot of the ritviks are fighting like cats and dogs among themselves, why would someone with a successful program why to get entangled in all that?
Where are these alleged alternate programs?
Locally, Bangalore folks have made a nice temple here and they also made another one in New Jersey. There are nice kirtans, bhajans, preaching from Prabhupada's books and they even made a cow gaushalla here. So they may have their defects, but they also have their plus side as well. But having little or no program at all is another defect, it was the same defect as the "asara" (useless) 1936 Gaudiya Matha.
My main point is, when are "the other ritviks" going to make a few substantial programs and temples, which are full of thousands of people on festival days -- with Prabhupada being the worshiped guru for their program? And since the critics have complained about Bangalore since 1997, when are they finally going to get their act together and do something themselves after all this time?
And then, after they do that -- with something to show for their preaching -- we might then discuss joining those programs with the Bangalore process, but we do not see their alternate programs happening hardly at all. In fact a number of so-called ritviks still attend GBC temples. Or worse, some so-called ritviks think we need to listen to GBC defenders like Bhakta das.
And way back in 1997 we had all sorts of problem with "other ritviks" such as Krishna Kanta who made a big complaint about us on his web site. And then the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Bhakta Peter / Janardan / Dayalu Nitai's HKC Jaipur people have been totally infuriated as soon as they found out that PADA was helping liberate hundreds of children from their favorite anal reconstructive surgery guru parampara, which beats children with bamboo rods that makes them black and blue and even breaks their bones. They love to see others suffering, especially children, and they are calling themselves worshipers of God? And then some of them write PADA, why aren't you working with us?
We cannot liberate children from that odious process -- without infuriating the defenders of that process like HKC Jaipur ilk. So they are defenders of a program Sulochan calls "putting children into a wood chipper." Who wants to "work with" these type of child abuse lovers and defenders?
And some other "ritviks" told me about how devotees cannot take donations from Monsanto folks, Microsoft folks, or Bill Clinton folks et al., but Srila Prabhupada had a policy that we could and did take donations from anyone, and he never excluded any donator that we know of. So they want the ritviks to agree with Srila Prabhupada's envious God brothers -- that ISKCON is bogus for taking money from sinful people. And thus Srila Prabhupada is bogus. Why are they siding with the people who despise Srila Prabhupada, and giving their exact arguments?
Of course some of these people said my taxi driving was bogus, "for moving meat groceries." Except Srila Prabhupada approves of Jayananda driving a taxi. They are always attacking the things Srila Prabhupada approved of. How can we "work with" the people who keep insisting that Srila Prabhupada is bogus, and his best disciples like Jayananda are bogus?
To sum then, many of these people have no interest in cooperating with anyone, whether PADA or others, never mind cooperating with one another to make a substantial preaching program. They are essentially a tempest in a tea cup. At the same time, various people from the Bangalore program cite PADA links in their preaching, and some of their members write us nice questions about the history of the GBC.
And meanwhile we get a lot of insults and harassing from many others claiming to be ritviks. So if people want to "defeat Bangalore" or "defeat PADA" that is fine, do something better and lets see how that works out. Its amazing that some suggest I should "work with" the people who wanted to see the child beater's process continue? In any case, Bangalore folks have done what should be done by others -- in that -- they made an independent program that worships Srila Prabhupada as the guru.
We think that is a good example of the principle, never mind it has flaws, its more than most others have done or ever will do. A blind uncle is better than none. That does not mean I am fully supporting anyone, in fact I did not "fully support" ANY of the leaders even when Srila Prabhupada was here. I worked with them to accomplish other things, but that does not mean I had fully surrendered to them, or fully agreed with them, or thought they were my factual authorities etc.
I am saying that we should all do what Bangalore is doing, make an independent program. And if they are the main example of doing that, it does not necessarily mean they are either good or bad, it means others cannot do better. Anyway, here below is a photo of an example of what they are doing. Do better, and we will advertise that.
And Bangalore has put the ritvik documents into the Supreme Court of India. That is one of the most important things that needed to be done, and no one else has done that. We need a legal paper trail of what the orders of the acharya were supposed to be, for historical and legal reference. And no one else ever will do that evidently. So if you want to defeat others, do better, and if you do better we will then advertise that for you. Keeping anything alive requires living people doing living things, and I am sorry that I have to point out the obvious.
ys pd
In other words, if one party is unable to defeat the other party then Prabhupada says: If he is unable to defeat the opposing party, then the next step is that he should not just stand there meekly, but should give up his life. The third process is followed if he is unable to execute the above-mentioned two processes, and this is that one must leave the place and go away. If a devotee does not follow any of the above-mentioned three processes, he falls down from his position of devotion.
[PADA: Yes, shastra says if we cannot defeat the other party with superior arguments, we are advised to give up our life. I don't think Srila Prabhupada and Krishna want us to do that factually. However, that is happening anyway, in a sort of slow motion back door process -- in any case.
Many devotees are giving up their bodies prematurely, and we think it is connected to their depression over the dismantling of ISKCON. More than a few people told me they have "lost their will to live." For example, one woman told me that in 1986, she has lost her will to live. And 12 months later I was at her bedside as she was dying of terminal cancer. And she was unconscious for quite a while but as I left, I put my hand on her forehead. And she opened her eyes and said "Haribol Puranjan." She sort of let me know, she was checking out of here, and she did.
My friend's wife is a nurse of 20 years and she thinks the ISKCON "premature deaths" process is very much like the problem she has with some of her patients. These patients "lose their will to thrive." In other words, they no longer want to continue keeping their soul in this particular body, they have essentially given up hope. They would rather leave than stay.
And she says, the other nurses talk about the problem in the back room, "Patient X has no will to thrive, we cannot cure this patient." And so they sort of sit back and try to keep the patient as comfortable as possible, and almost all the time their predictions comes true, these patients pass away, nothing can be done to save them. So a lot of devotees have died from terminal illness, and some from drug and / or alcohol overdose and so forth, a lack of will to thrive.
I am not sure what the actual problem is here as far as standing up to the evil doers with good arguments? Anyone who says acharyas are not having illicit sex with men, women and children immediately has the superior argument. It seems to me a lot of people just do not want to apply the superior argument "to keep friends" with various ISKCON people. Sentimentalism.
However, Arjuna was told by Krishna that yes, you can go sit under a tree and avoid the battle, but the battle will consume your existence in other ways. And that has happened to so many uncountable folks who tried to avoid confronting the evil doers, but they got sucked into the battle or results of the battle anyway -- exactly as the Bhagavad Gita describes will likely happen.
Of course when people say that their idea of keeping the parampara alive is to compare the parampara to marrying a dead woman like Emilia Earhart, that is pretty depressing itself. Sheesh!
Even Madhu Pandit is now rejected by many ritviks, what is the point here?
PADA: Yes, we get complaints about the Bangalore program on a regular basis from various people. First of all, why are so many people even discussing Bangalore? Its because these folks have made at least some sort of project with at least some degree of success. Otherwise, if Bangalore was not making any large scale temples and akshaya patra and other programs, no one would have even notice they existed.
So that is really the first problem, most -- if not all -- of the critics of Bangalore cannot do something for preaching on a large scale themselves. Worse, most of these critics cannot even make a small scale -- anything of substance program -- such as a teeny little home sized preaching program themselves. Or its very rare.
And most of these critics have not made much progress since 1997 when Bangalore first broke off and started their process going. Ok they are probably not going to do much in this lifetime if they cannot get themselves into gear since 1997. Some of these critics have been going along since 1997, and what have they got to show as their alternate "better program" since then?
Let's ask for example, why aren't hardly any of them making a teeny little home preaching program, gathering of a small handful of people, making their house or apartment into a small temple? And did we forget to mention that the now very large Bangalore temple process itself started from a small rented property and it grew from there. The critics are barely not even starting the seedling process for the most part?
So Bangalore needs to "work with the other ritvik programs," which are far and few between self evidently, or don't even seem to exist practically on another level. And a lot of the ritviks are fighting like cats and dogs among themselves, why would someone with a successful program why to get entangled in all that?
Where are these alleged alternate programs?
Locally, Bangalore folks have made a nice temple here and they also made another one in New Jersey. There are nice kirtans, bhajans, preaching from Prabhupada's books and they even made a cow gaushalla here. So they may have their defects, but they also have their plus side as well. But having little or no program at all is another defect, it was the same defect as the "asara" (useless) 1936 Gaudiya Matha.
My main point is, when are "the other ritviks" going to make a few substantial programs and temples, which are full of thousands of people on festival days -- with Prabhupada being the worshiped guru for their program? And since the critics have complained about Bangalore since 1997, when are they finally going to get their act together and do something themselves after all this time?
And then, after they do that -- with something to show for their preaching -- we might then discuss joining those programs with the Bangalore process, but we do not see their alternate programs happening hardly at all. In fact a number of so-called ritviks still attend GBC temples. Or worse, some so-called ritviks think we need to listen to GBC defenders like Bhakta das.
And way back in 1997 we had all sorts of problem with "other ritviks" such as Krishna Kanta who made a big complaint about us on his web site. And then the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Bhakta Peter / Janardan / Dayalu Nitai's HKC Jaipur people have been totally infuriated as soon as they found out that PADA was helping liberate hundreds of children from their favorite anal reconstructive surgery guru parampara, which beats children with bamboo rods that makes them black and blue and even breaks their bones. They love to see others suffering, especially children, and they are calling themselves worshipers of God? And then some of them write PADA, why aren't you working with us?
We cannot liberate children from that odious process -- without infuriating the defenders of that process like HKC Jaipur ilk. So they are defenders of a program Sulochan calls "putting children into a wood chipper." Who wants to "work with" these type of child abuse lovers and defenders?
And some other "ritviks" told me about how devotees cannot take donations from Monsanto folks, Microsoft folks, or Bill Clinton folks et al., but Srila Prabhupada had a policy that we could and did take donations from anyone, and he never excluded any donator that we know of. So they want the ritviks to agree with Srila Prabhupada's envious God brothers -- that ISKCON is bogus for taking money from sinful people. And thus Srila Prabhupada is bogus. Why are they siding with the people who despise Srila Prabhupada, and giving their exact arguments?
Of course some of these people said my taxi driving was bogus, "for moving meat groceries." Except Srila Prabhupada approves of Jayananda driving a taxi. They are always attacking the things Srila Prabhupada approved of. How can we "work with" the people who keep insisting that Srila Prabhupada is bogus, and his best disciples like Jayananda are bogus?
To sum then, many of these people have no interest in cooperating with anyone, whether PADA or others, never mind cooperating with one another to make a substantial preaching program. They are essentially a tempest in a tea cup. At the same time, various people from the Bangalore program cite PADA links in their preaching, and some of their members write us nice questions about the history of the GBC.
And meanwhile we get a lot of insults and harassing from many others claiming to be ritviks. So if people want to "defeat Bangalore" or "defeat PADA" that is fine, do something better and lets see how that works out. Its amazing that some suggest I should "work with" the people who wanted to see the child beater's process continue? In any case, Bangalore folks have done what should be done by others -- in that -- they made an independent program that worships Srila Prabhupada as the guru.
We think that is a good example of the principle, never mind it has flaws, its more than most others have done or ever will do. A blind uncle is better than none. That does not mean I am fully supporting anyone, in fact I did not "fully support" ANY of the leaders even when Srila Prabhupada was here. I worked with them to accomplish other things, but that does not mean I had fully surrendered to them, or fully agreed with them, or thought they were my factual authorities etc.
I am saying that we should all do what Bangalore is doing, make an independent program. And if they are the main example of doing that, it does not necessarily mean they are either good or bad, it means others cannot do better. Anyway, here below is a photo of an example of what they are doing. Do better, and we will advertise that.
And Bangalore has put the ritvik documents into the Supreme Court of India. That is one of the most important things that needed to be done, and no one else has done that. We need a legal paper trail of what the orders of the acharya were supposed to be, for historical and legal reference. And no one else ever will do that evidently. So if you want to defeat others, do better, and if you do better we will then advertise that for you. Keeping anything alive requires living people doing living things, and I am sorry that I have to point out the obvious.
ys pd
Sunday, October 27, 2019
Keeping the Disciplic Succession Alive By Kamra Devi Dasi (ACBSP)
https://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2019/10/reply-to-keeping-disciplic-succession.html
Keeping the Disciplic Succession Alive
By Kamra Devi Dasi (ACBSP)
Ritvik or the Organization …. Is that the only choice?
Srila Prabhupada’s position is unique, not only that he is to be recognized as Founder-Acarya of the organization that he founded in order to spread Krsna Consciousness, but that he had to be vartma-pradarshika guru, diksa guru, and siksha guru. In other words, he had to fill every role, and he was the perfect personality to do so.
We have to be very astute in studying and analyzing what is real and what is not, in that so much that has been presented in the past regarding the spiritual master, the disciple, and the relationship, has not been properly understood. In fact, it has been grossly misunderstood. The truth is all there in Srila Prabhupada’s books, but it also must be realized.
In a system where the role of diksa develops naturally, there is first the relationship, and it flourishes and develops on its own accord to the point of mutual examination and possible spiritual initiation. It is not that the position is there first, and the disciples follow, but rather, the relationship is there and it grows to the point of spiritual initiation. This relationship cannot be orchestrated by any outside body.
[PADA: And if people want to accept Srila Prabhupada as their guru, no institution can check that either. In fact a number of people inside the institution write PADA and ask how they can become direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada because they do NOT accept the GBC gurus, and they only want Srila Prabhupada as their guru. And we encourage them to take shelter of Srila Prabhupada, and that is where their hearts are, thus it cannot be checked artificially.]
As far as Srila Prabhupada continuing to take disciples after his passing, it is not the fact. This misconception is actually impersonalism. Srila Prabhupada took the recommendations of his organizational authorities for accepting potential initiates. The last word was always his, whether the person was to be initiated or not.
Keeping the Disciplic Succession Alive
By Kamra Devi Dasi (ACBSP)
Ritvik or the Organization …. Is that the only choice?
We at Purely Prabhupada Inc have been asked if we are ritvik. We replied, "We are not of the ritvik camp. We do not, however, agree with the system of initiations as it currently exists within the organization of ISKCON. We recognize that the true guru / disciple relationship is deep, personal, and cannot be officialized, overseen or overridden by any managerial board."
And still, there were questions, like, if you are not ritvik, then who is the guru of your group, or how can you be presenting only Srila Prabhupada if you are not ritvik, or can Srila Prabhupada accept initiations since he is no longer with us. It seemed to warrant more explanation. There is another choice besides ritvik or the way that the organization has things set up. It is so apparent that we have become blind to it.
Srila Prabhupada’s position is unique, not only that he is to be recognized as Founder-Acarya of the organization that he founded in order to spread Krsna Consciousness, but that he had to be vartma-pradarshika guru, diksa guru, and siksha guru. In other words, he had to fill every role, and he was the perfect personality to do so.
He had an unprecedented position in the preaching lineage, taking Krsna Consciousness to foreign lands that were bereft of spiritual culture. He was on his own to work wonders in the hearts of the misguided souls of the western world. This unique position, this role, cannot be imitated, but it was, to great detriment.
His position was seen by neophyte, and even envious, followers, as just that, a position of power, rather than the expression of profound humility and surrender of the true acarya. The spiritual master-disciple relationship is one of deep friendship, a position of mutual reciprocation of service within the proper expression of etiquette and respect, not an official position of power. The spiritual master opens the door to the spiritual realm and serves his disciples by endeavoring to keep them on that path, and the disciple makes progress along that path by serving the instructions of the guru.
To bring a spiritual aspirant to the perfectional stage is a collective endeavor, including active participation on the part of the disciple. It takes spiritually based community, and Srila Prabhupada had to be a one man show, by dint of circumstances.
Not every spiritual master is an acarya, but every bona fide spiritual master will point his or her disciples to the feet and teachings of the predecessor acaryas. In our case, the books of Srila Prabhupada are to be the guiding light for the next 10,000 years, providing that they do not become adulterated. He is the shining light, and lives forever in his instructions.
We have to be very astute in studying and analyzing what is real and what is not, in that so much that has been presented in the past regarding the spiritual master, the disciple, and the relationship, has not been properly understood. In fact, it has been grossly misunderstood. The truth is all there in Srila Prabhupada’s books, but it also must be realized.
The Vaisnava culture presents the picture. It is there in Krsna Book, it is there in Caitanya Caritamrta, it is there in all the literatures, the culture, the etiquette, what is the role of the spiritual master, the disciple, the relationship. This can be studied and applied, and it will not be in the mood of deviating from Srila Prabhupada, because it is his teachings. Srila Prabhupada cannot be separated from his teachings, and thus, by following his teachings, we are connected to the greatest teacher.
We see practically in the literatures that the role of spiritual master was community oriented, that it was localized, that it was personal, that it was reciprocal. Historically, a person did not accept more disciples than he or she could properly sustain, considering the aggregate of factors. Srila Prabhupada wanted to see localized communities. He made big, big projects for big, big egos to engage those type persons, according to time and circumstance, but he stressed localized, sustainable, cooperative communities. He wanted varnasrama, and that included qualified brahmin teachers and spiritual guides.
The brahmins were to initiate when that was called for, and the brahmins do not answer to a managerial class. They are qualified to have independence in their spiritual insights and decisions. In the early 1980s, I was looking at the “guru” system as it was introduced after the departure of His Divine Grace. I thought that my insights might be valued, but the powers that were thought them to be enough of a disturbance that I was physically brutalized.
At the time, I recognized that the system was incorrect, that it was a system of imitation rather than of empowering and enthusing the devotees, and I suggested that if anything, the GBC was to simply be a record-keeper, filling a clerk role, of who initiated who, according to proper relationship on a small and personal scale, rather than a determiner of who was authorized to hold the position of diksa guru.
No one at the time seemed to understand that it was not a matter of position, but of relationship, and it seemed that the goal of many of the organizational leaders was power, position, and control, rather than of authentic relationships and mentorship. It has become so ingrained as policy over time that the position of diksa guru is simply a formal role at the jurisdiction of the GBC, that it does not appear to be correctable any longer within the institution.
This is at the crux of the problem.
After the passing of Srila Prabhupada, many of his disciples were purposely alienated and disempowered by the organizational management. Instead of having their years of service and advancement recognized and honored, they were minimized. There was some confusion or misdirection around the procedures for initiating newcomers, but the gist of it was that those who were already trained, a most important resource in the propagation of the mission, who could lead people in their quest for Krsna Consciousness due to their own experience, association with Srila Prabhupada, and spiritual advancement, were minimized and driven away.
They were disempowered, and as would be expected in that situation, became disenchanted and uninspired. There is no need for a senior disciple of Srila Prabhupada to have to be scrutinized and approved to take disciples by a managerial board of less experienced and less advanced devotees who are often junior to them.
In a system where the role of diksa develops naturally, there is first the relationship, and it flourishes and develops on its own accord to the point of mutual examination and possible spiritual initiation. It is not that the position is there first, and the disciples follow, but rather, the relationship is there and it grows to the point of spiritual initiation. This relationship cannot be orchestrated by any outside body.
[PADA: And if people want to accept Srila Prabhupada as their guru, no institution can check that either. In fact a number of people inside the institution write PADA and ask how they can become direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada because they do NOT accept the GBC gurus, and they only want Srila Prabhupada as their guru. And we encourage them to take shelter of Srila Prabhupada, and that is where their hearts are, thus it cannot be checked artificially.]
It develops on its own accord, and the responsibility for it is a mature evaluation on the part of both the potential guru and the disciple. It is a decision made by two educated and knowledgeable participants, each taking full responsibility for the decision and the outcome. Since this is not the current system within the organization, it may have to be developed outside of it.
[PADA: Correct, many people want Srila Prabhupada as their guru because its developing on its own accord.]
[PADA: Correct, many people want Srila Prabhupada as their guru because its developing on its own accord.]
However, it is one thing to give spiritual lectures to thousands of people and quite another to take responsibility for individual mentoring. Both are important, but the real making of devotees is in the personal interaction and guidance, and for that, the mentor must be prepared to give of him or herself quite extensively, over and over. It is not a lightweight thing. It has no material reward, but is pleasing to Krsna. This all has to be considered in taking on such a relationship.
As far as Srila Prabhupada continuing to take disciples after his passing, it is not the fact. This misconception is actually impersonalism. Srila Prabhupada took the recommendations of his organizational authorities for accepting potential initiates. The last word was always his, whether the person was to be initiated or not.
Although there does not seem to be a record of any time that Srila Prabhupada refused such a recommendation, he always had that option. Ritvik initiations override Srila Prabhupada’s own independence in accepting or not accepting a disciple. He cannot be forced to accept anyone, nor is there any precedent in the vaisnava histories of this sort of initiation being valid. I have been challenged that this is the stupidest argument ever heard against ritvik initiations, but I stand by it as fact.
[PADA: Well its the GBC's argument, you need to worship anyone as your guru, as long as its not Srila Prabhupada.]
[PADA: Well its the GBC's argument, you need to worship anyone as your guru, as long as its not Srila Prabhupada.]
Go marry Emilia Erhart, if you can find her…. Has she consented?
[PADA: Wow, its the posthumous, post samadhi post mortem guru argument, no wonder so many people left ISKCON to find another guru. The ISKCON people are saying ISKCON is a post mortem morgue, then they wonder why people are fleeing in droves. The post mortem guru idea is how the Gaudiya Matha made their false gurus. Srila Prabhupada is a mundane person, like Amelia Erhart? Yes, go find another guru, at your peril ....]
There is a lot more to pay attention to in the ritvik discussion than simply the word “henceforward.”
[PADA: What is wrong with the word henceforward? Its the word used by the acharya. We have to worship a phantom non-entity henceforward?]
As far as Srila Prabhupada himself appointing 11 ritviks to perform initiations on his behalf after his passing, I am of the opinion that the general mass of devotees were not given full information due to some other agenda, and are therefore trying to derive conclusions from incomplete resources.
[PADA: Wow, its the posthumous, post samadhi post mortem guru argument, no wonder so many people left ISKCON to find another guru. The ISKCON people are saying ISKCON is a post mortem morgue, then they wonder why people are fleeing in droves. The post mortem guru idea is how the Gaudiya Matha made their false gurus. Srila Prabhupada is a mundane person, like Amelia Erhart? Yes, go find another guru, at your peril ....]
There is a lot more to pay attention to in the ritvik discussion than simply the word “henceforward.”
[PADA: What is wrong with the word henceforward? Its the word used by the acharya. We have to worship a phantom non-entity henceforward?]
As far as Srila Prabhupada himself appointing 11 ritviks to perform initiations on his behalf after his passing, I am of the opinion that the general mass of devotees were not given full information due to some other agenda, and are therefore trying to derive conclusions from incomplete resources.
This would not be unheard of. This is very common, even in the world media, and the population gets into a frenzy over false or incomplete information. There are several known instances of this in the organization. One well known example is how Srila Prabhupada’s request to have all his disciples with him at the time of his passing was purposefully not relayed, and caused extreme heartbreak to the disciples when the truth came out. (I was told by a devotee who was with Srila Prabhupada in his room at that time that he looked around and asked “Where are they all?”
What emotional devastation….) Another example is quite simple, seemingly benign, in that Srila Prabhupada answered a letter from a disciple regarding sleep, take 6-8 hours, whatever refreshed the body. This letter is nowhere to be found, as it did not serve the needs of the temple authorities who wanted the devotees to be out raising money.
Of course, we all know that Srila Prabhupada also said that sleep more than 6 hours is influenced by the mode of ignorance, and this quote was happily made widespread. Another example, which cannot be proven by hard evidence, but was “witnessed” by several psychics and remote viewers, and strongly suspected by Revatinandana, is that the death of Visnujana Swami was very likely not as recorded in the history of the organization.
And Tamal is not available for input. There are many more examples. I am also quite confident, therefore, that the mass of devotees was not fully informed, or even purposely misinformed considering the magnitude of the moment, in the instance of the 11 originally appointed “ritviks” or other very pertinent information that Srila Prabhupada may have given in this regard. We may never know, but we do have what Srila Prabhupada gave in his books.
It is understandable that many people have come to the conclusion that ritvik is the proper approach, but it often stems from the observation that those who were “authorized” by the organization to take disciples were most often personally unqualified, or even disqualified, by personal behavior. So, quite understandable, but not philosophically sound.
[PADA: Its not philosophically sound to worship the acharya?]
Srila Prabhupada’s books must be studied apart from organizational policies, and the truths will be revealed to the sincere seeker who is willing to put aside deeply ingrained mental constraints and paradigms. There will then be great revelations by hearing from the purest of pure devotees, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
[PADA: Its not philosophically sound to worship the acharya?]
Srila Prabhupada’s books must be studied apart from organizational policies, and the truths will be revealed to the sincere seeker who is willing to put aside deeply ingrained mental constraints and paradigms. There will then be great revelations by hearing from the purest of pure devotees, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada said to us that Jesus is still taking the sins of his sincere followers even now. That means a "departed" diksha guru is possible. Notice also that we are going to keep the disciplic succession alive, by not naming anyone as the current representative of the line? There is nothing that is "alive" unless there is a specific named person representing the living principle. Of course assuming that Srila Prabhupada is not alive has been the whole problem from square one.
Srila Prabhupada names only 32 people for a period of 5,000 year, that means there are often gaps in the system, and he says when such a gap appears we continue the worship of the last link (which would be him at this point). That is the "alive" process. There is no other process.
Srila Prabhupada names only 32 people for a period of 5,000 year, that means there are often gaps in the system, and he says when such a gap appears we continue the worship of the last link (which would be him at this point). That is the "alive" process. There is no other process.
And Srila Prabhupada also said that only an uttama can take sins because he has the sufficient BRAHMANA TEJYAS to burn off the sins, so he is not affected. It is the opinion of the PADA editor that no one else can take these sins, unless they are uttama themselves. And as we have seen in spades, people who take these sins without authority can get severely burned in the process, and they can burn down the institution along with themselves as they collapse in a heap.
And that is one reason why Srila Prabhupada says in the "Nectar of Instruction," the disciple must be careful to accept only an uttama guru. Because if the guru is not an uttama, the disciple will not have his sins absolved and resolved, and that will hold him back from making progress, which is also described in the NOD. I find it somewhat amazing that people make all sorts of analysis papers, without mentioning how they are going to remedy this issue, or even discuss this issue.
That includes Rocana / Torben / Hanuman Croatia and so on and so forth. So we need to read the books of Srila Prabhupada, but not accept him as our guru. That does not even seem to make any sense either. So we must read his books, but we do not offer the bhogha and the disciples to him, we have to offer the bhogha and disciples to some unknown and untested person. How can we know if the bhogha and disciples are accepted? Well that is called faith. Faith cannot be proven officially one way or the other, we either believe Srila Prabhupada can accept bhogha and disciples being offered to him, or not.
That we cannot make offerings to the acharya itself sounds very dangerous, what if offering the bhogha to people like Bhakti Vikas swami means, its not being accepted? Then people are eating bhogha. And same thing with the sins. If we worship someone like Bhakti Vikas swami as our guru, but he cannot absorb our sins, we are basically doomed to hold our sins going forward -- in this life and the next.
I don't see how this is a practical idea, at all. There needs to be a central acharya where the bhogha, the disciples, the buildings, the money, the assets, the entire organization -- is under his direct worship. I have many Christian friends and they offer the newcomers as disciples of the Church of Jesus. They also say grace (make offerings) to Jesus. And they -- in all respects -- accept that Jesus is the proprietor of the congregation, the buildings, the assets and etc. And more to the point, only Jesus can absolve the sins of the followers.
That is the correct understanding. Looking for someone else to fulfill that role is a fool's errand in our opinion, whether in the Church or in ISKCON. Notice also that Kamra and ilk do not mention who is going to keep the Disciplic Succession alive, that is impersonal right out of the gate. The disciplic succession will be kept alive, but by -- no named person? A phantom? A non-entity? How can we keep the disciplic line alive, by having some phantom person, an unnamed theoretical individual, as the successor? All glories to -- Srila Nobody-pada?
That is the correct understanding. Looking for someone else to fulfill that role is a fool's errand in our opinion, whether in the Church or in ISKCON. Notice also that Kamra and ilk do not mention who is going to keep the Disciplic Succession alive, that is impersonal right out of the gate. The disciplic succession will be kept alive, but by -- no named person? A phantom? A non-entity? How can we keep the disciplic line alive, by having some phantom person, an unnamed theoretical individual, as the successor? All glories to -- Srila Nobody-pada?
At least the ritviks know who is the person who is their link to the parampara, and that is how they keep the succession alive.
ys pd]
Saturday, October 26, 2019
ISKCON Alachua / Gainesville Sexual Predator Messiah's Project (Update)
PADA: Photo meme not made by us, but shows the growing consensus among many.
https://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2019/10/jvalamukhi-banned-from-alachua-iskcon.html
[PADA: Leaders of ISKCON Alachua / Gainesville Florida continue their repression of those of us who do not accept their homosexual pedophile / illicit sex with men, women and children "guru lineage from God." A guru lineage from God --- ooops, which had to be sued for $400,000,000 for mass children abuse, and has been involved in murders of those who dissented the child abuse, is "a chain of gurus coming from God"? Who knew!
Apparently, the only good news is that their "chain of God's successors" are not engaged in illicit sex with -- goats? Lets not forget that Alachua's "guru from heaven" Radhanath swami (Richard Slavin) helped bury a known sexual predator aka Kirtanananda (Keith Ham) in a "samadhi" in the Krishna's holy land of Vrndavana. We need to help bury sexual predators in samadhis -- so that little children can go there and worship a known sexual predator as a divine saint from heaven? Can anyone explain where "pedophiles in samadhi" is part of the religion of India, or anywhere else?
Ooops we almost forgot, does not include that these folks buried a "pornography watching swami" (Gunagrahi) in another samadhi over there? Yep, if there is one thing our little kids all need to do, its to worship sexual predators and porno swamis in samadhi! And no one seems to know, what is porno swami "samadhi" either? Pornography watching is really divine samadhi from heaven, and that is what we need to teach to little children?
And the biggest ongoing leaders of the sexual predator guru regime (like Jayapataka) are still worshiped as the current messiahs of ISKCON Alachua now. And when I said there is a CHILD ABUSE problem going on some years ago, I was kicked off the ISKCON property myself by a gang of four of these "God's successor gurus from heaven." Then, the death threats started coming. Then my associates started getting banned, beaten, sued and -- assassinated. Apparently I was lucky only to be chased with baseball bats, and to be offered witness protection from the FBI -- after my associate was murdered by their goon squad.
That is how the Alachua regime folks have defended, enabled, allowed, facilitated and empowered their whole "sexual predator guru regime" abuse process, and the ongoing worship of the leaders responsible for that process. Of course, this alleged "guru line" was referred to as "the anal reconstructive surgery epidemic for little boys" program by Sulochana, which is why he had to be murdered by their regime, as he was in 1986.
How did you guess, the number one leader of the regime that is associated with Sulochan's murder is Radhanath swami (Richard Slavin), who is also NOW worshiped in Alachua as one of their living guru / messiahs there. And Radhanath's involvement in the New Vrndavana criminal empire is well documented and analysed in Henry Doktorski's books and writings, as well as other documents and writings.
According to ISKCON ALACHUA's "God's successor guru" Jayadvaita swami (Jay Israel) the current ISKCON "chain of gurus from God" worshiped in Alachua Florida contains -- "illicit sex with men, women and possibly children" (ok really, sex with minors). A chain of gurus from God contains all sorts of variations of illicit sex (including oral sex with taxi drivers in the holy land of the Krishnas), and of course -- drug addicts, vodka drinkers, people who get arrested for shooting at occupied buildings, criminals, and persons implicated in murders of dissenters, and so on and so forth?
This is a chain of gurus from God in Heaven?
The best news we are hearing now is that the Alachua / Gainesville temples keep banning the people who do not want to worship their homosexual pedophile -- illicit sex with men, women and children "chain of gurus from God." We need as few people as possible to be participating in their process. And yet the fact they have to ban people means, they have no good argument for why little children should have to worship a lineage of drunkards, debauchees, sexual predators and assorted deviants as their "chain of gurus" and messiahs from heaven.
Sorry, but Krishna does not teach that His chain of guru successors contains illicit sex with men, women and children -- sexual predators, and / or any other forms of deviations. This is fraud to claim that this is part of God's teachings.
How many people accept that a chain of gurus from God contains illicit sex with men, women and children, for starters? And anyone who objects to the worship of their illicit sex and debauchees "chain of gurus from God" is being bullied out of ISKCON, including from the Alachua temple by "the authorities" there. OK lets review who are some of these Alachua "authorities."
Kalakantha Das
Brahma Tirtha Das (Robert Cohen)
Mukhya Dasi
Namamrita Das, a married disciple of Radhanath Swami in his thirties who balances a job as a commercial airline pilot with caring for his special needs daughter, has been working on the effort for the better part of a year.
A few other alleged "managers"
Anyway, we think that more people are rejecting these folks and more folks are asking us good questions about these bogus frauds posing as Krishna's devotees. We just went through a long "history review" session with an ex-follower of New Vrndavana and caught them up to speed on a lot of this, and we keep getting folks like this making nice inquiries on a regular basis. Oh no, we have not yet got their permission to publish their horror story while living under the Radhanath regime there, but we will see about that later. ys pd
Corrections and / or additions send to: PADA @ angel108b@yahoo.com
PS: Yes, Y Dasi you have my permission to send this article to government agencies in Alachua, Gainesville, the Charity Commission and around Florida for their review.
ISKCON of Alachua County, Inc.
17306 NW 112th Blvd.
Alachua, Fl 32616
(386) 462-2017
contact@alachuatemple.com
__________www.alachuatemple.com______________
The International Society for Krishna Consciousness
Founder-Acarya: His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
June 1, 2019
Dear Dhaneshvara prabhu,
Hare Krishna. We have noted your recently published book “Divine or Demoniac” proposing your personal theories and views on ISKCON. We find very problematic your skewed attempt to draw parallels between corruption of the Catholic Church and ISKCON, denigration of the GBC and ISKCON devotees. Specifically it is quite offensive when you propound a speculative theory that Prabhupada was poisoned by his disciples, that Prabhupada’s book were maliciously changed, the structure of ISKCON has been changed to that of a centralized corporate structure against the orders of Srila Prabhupada, the GBC has deliberately neglected Prabhupada’s instructions on Varnasrama, the GBC’s negligence in following Srila Prabhupada’s orders to make a constitution, and other speculations. This constitutes Vaishnava aparadha and devotees should not hear such things as it gravely effects one’s spiritual advancement.
Of course you have a right to your opinions, but your efforts to distribute this book here, and influence our temple and community to your offensive ideas cannot be tolerated. Our Board of Directors has decided you should not to come to our ISKCON temple, take advantage of our programs and projects or market your book to our community.
Therefore, please understand that effective immediately you will not be welcome or allowed to visit the temple in Alachua. We are a branch of ISKCON following His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada’s instructions and desires and we take the protection of those very seriously.
In service of Guru and Gauranga,
ISKCON of Alachua Board of Directors:
Tamohara dasa, chairman
Mukhya devi dasi, president
Mantrini devi dasi
Ranjit dasa
Radikesh dasa
Namamrita dasa
Sri Vrindavan devi dasi
Ekadasi Vrata devi dasi
Rasamrita devi dasi
Bhismadeva dasa
(Hanuman Croatia comment): Now, when you read the email like this, if you are normal person, you might get shocked. But I am not shocked. I am happy because now I am able to hunt down all the Gestapo officers who exposed themselves. By revealing their names, they bravely ended up on my website. And they all nicely signed themselves at the bottom of the email.
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2018/11/iskcon-alachua-fl-defends-molester.html
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2017/03/gainesville-krishna-house-defends-book.html
17306 NW 112th Blvd.
Alachua, Fl 32616
(386) 462-2017
contact@alachuatemple.com
__________www.alachuatemple.com______________
The International Society for Krishna Consciousness
Founder-Acarya: His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
June 1, 2019
Dear Dhaneshvara prabhu,
Hare Krishna. We have noted your recently published book “Divine or Demoniac” proposing your personal theories and views on ISKCON. We find very problematic your skewed attempt to draw parallels between corruption of the Catholic Church and ISKCON, denigration of the GBC and ISKCON devotees. Specifically it is quite offensive when you propound a speculative theory that Prabhupada was poisoned by his disciples, that Prabhupada’s book were maliciously changed, the structure of ISKCON has been changed to that of a centralized corporate structure against the orders of Srila Prabhupada, the GBC has deliberately neglected Prabhupada’s instructions on Varnasrama, the GBC’s negligence in following Srila Prabhupada’s orders to make a constitution, and other speculations. This constitutes Vaishnava aparadha and devotees should not hear such things as it gravely effects one’s spiritual advancement.
Of course you have a right to your opinions, but your efforts to distribute this book here, and influence our temple and community to your offensive ideas cannot be tolerated. Our Board of Directors has decided you should not to come to our ISKCON temple, take advantage of our programs and projects or market your book to our community.
Therefore, please understand that effective immediately you will not be welcome or allowed to visit the temple in Alachua. We are a branch of ISKCON following His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada’s instructions and desires and we take the protection of those very seriously.
In service of Guru and Gauranga,
ISKCON of Alachua Board of Directors:
Tamohara dasa, chairman
Mukhya devi dasi, president
Mantrini devi dasi
Ranjit dasa
Radikesh dasa
Namamrita dasa
Sri Vrindavan devi dasi
Ekadasi Vrata devi dasi
Rasamrita devi dasi
Bhismadeva dasa
(Hanuman Croatia comment): Now, when you read the email like this, if you are normal person, you might get shocked. But I am not shocked. I am happy because now I am able to hunt down all the Gestapo officers who exposed themselves. By revealing their names, they bravely ended up on my website. And they all nicely signed themselves at the bottom of the email.
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2018/11/iskcon-alachua-fl-defends-molester.html
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2017/03/gainesville-krishna-house-defends-book.html
Mass Extinction Crisis at Epidemic Level
https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/biodiversity/elements_of_biodiversity/extinction_crisis/?
[PADA: Hee hee, there are some devotees who write to tell me all the Delhi smog, droughts, floods, climate change fires, tornadoes and accompanied -- species reduction problems -- "were happening the same way 1,000 years ago." Ummm, nope. ys pd]
[PADA: Hee hee, there are some devotees who write to tell me all the Delhi smog, droughts, floods, climate change fires, tornadoes and accompanied -- species reduction problems -- "were happening the same way 1,000 years ago." Ummm, nope. ys pd]
Friday, October 25, 2019
Yudhisthira's Dog (Mahabharata)
The closing chapter narrates the tale of King Yudhisthira and his brothers (The Pandavas) making a pilgrimage to their final resting place.
The Pandavas were firm in their resolve to renounce their Kingdom and began the ascent of a mountain as part of their final journey. Yudhisthira led the way followed by Bheema, Arjuna, Nakula, Sahadeva and Draupadi. A dog also accompanied them through their journey.
The first one to fall along the way was Draupadi (Yajnaseni). “Why did she die first, Yudhisthira?” asked Bheema. “Was she not virtuous, possessing a good heart?” Yudhisthira replied without looking back. “That is true, but she was more attached to Arjuna. That was her failing.”
The next to falter and collapse was Sahadeva. “What was his failing, O Yudhisthira?” cried Bheema. Yudhisthira continued walking without looking back, and replied: “Pride in his intelligence was his failing.”
Next fell Nakula. “What wrong did he do, O Yudhisthira?” wailed Bheema. Yudhisthira spoke, without looking back: “He admired his own good looks. That was his failing.”
Arjuna collapsed soon after. “What wrong did Arjuna do, O Yudhisthira?” cried Bheema, overcome with grief. Yudhisthira was unmoved and kept walking: “He was brilliant but conceited and over confident. That was his failing.”
Bheema fell thereafter, unable to bear the sorrow of seeing his brothers die.
Yudhisthira spoke while walking on: “Bheema was boastful about his strength and ate in excess. That was his failing”
And now only Yudhisthira and the dog were left, continuing the journey together.
And finally, Indra descended in his chariot. He praised the extraordinary qualities of Yudhisthira and invited him into the chariot to ascend to heaven.
“The dog must come with me,” said Yudhisthira
“That is not possible,” said Indra. “All cannot attain heaven. The dog is old and thin and has no value.” “In that case, I do not seek heaven, “replied Yudhisthira. “The dog was my faithful companion and I cannot abandon it. It sought my help and gave me unconditional love. The pleasures of heaven will mean nothing to me in comparison to its grief. It has done nothing to deserve abandonment and had none of the weaknesses of my wife and brothers. If it does not deserve to go to heaven, then neither do I.”
And so he turned back. “Stop!” cried Indra. “None have the qualities that you possess, O Yudhisthira! The dog is Dharma, from whom you have descended!”
And indeed, the dog had transformed into the God of Dharma and blessed Yudhisthira for his complete lack of selfishness and dedication to righteousness in all circumstances. And thus rose Yudhisthira to heaven in the chariot of Indra.
Another Miami Temple Sale Approved
The first permanent temple was the 10+ acre temple in Coconut Grove across the street from the 50,000+ student population of Florida International University (FIU), the ideal location for preaching. Srila Prabhupada had visited there just before coming to Atlanta in March of 1975.
That temple was an eternal place of pilgrimage.
The temple was moved to a nice 7 or 8 story building directly on the ocean in Miami Beach. Then Genius temple managers decided to move (flip) the temple again. What ever happened to the Collins Ave - on the beach temple?
Well it became a boutique hotel with a 1st class indoor / outdoor Cafe that is visited by many many people who stroll up and down the boardwalk (the boardwalk was built a couple of years later). The most recent temple, on Virginia Ave, is located on the border between Coconut Grove and Miami.
The temple was being managed by a South American Swami for several years.
The technique used to force the sale of an ISKCON temple is simple. The managers / authorities create policies that will drive OUT the resident devotees and the regular congregation away from Srila Prabhupada's temple.
The seller/managers then approach the gbc body to claim that no one is coming to the temple and therefore... The temple must be sold and moved to a "better (and often smaller) location."
Just like 55th street in Manhattan NYC; Brooklyn, NY; Ireland; etc, etc, etc.
As long as the right people are paid, all is well, GBC permission is granted , and the cycle begins again.
- - - o - - -
The 4 defects that are exhibited by ordinary human beings and devotees who are not fully 100% God conscious unalloyed pure uttama-adhikari devotees are:
1 - Bhrama: the propensity to commit mistakes
2 - Karanpatava: the living entity's senses are imperfect
3 - Pramada: the propensity to be inattentive or illusioned
4 - Vipralipsa: the propensity to cheat
- - - o - - -
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta
CC Madya 19.167:
anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaḿ
jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam
ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-
śīlanaḿ bhaktir uttamā
"When first-class devotional service develops, one must be devoid of all material desires, knowledge obtained by monistic philosophy, and fruitive action. The devotee must constantly serve Krsna favorably, as Krsna desires."
The temple was moved to a nice 7 or 8 story building directly on the ocean in Miami Beach. Then Genius temple managers decided to move (flip) the temple again. What ever happened to the Collins Ave - on the beach temple?
Well it became a boutique hotel with a 1st class indoor / outdoor Cafe that is visited by many many people who stroll up and down the boardwalk (the boardwalk was built a couple of years later). The most recent temple, on Virginia Ave, is located on the border between Coconut Grove and Miami.
The temple was being managed by a South American Swami for several years.
The technique used to force the sale of an ISKCON temple is simple. The managers / authorities create policies that will drive OUT the resident devotees and the regular congregation away from Srila Prabhupada's temple.
The seller/managers then approach the gbc body to claim that no one is coming to the temple and therefore... The temple must be sold and moved to a "better (and often smaller) location."
Just like 55th street in Manhattan NYC; Brooklyn, NY; Ireland; etc, etc, etc.
As long as the right people are paid, all is well, GBC permission is granted , and the cycle begins again.
- - - o - - -
The 4 defects that are exhibited by ordinary human beings and devotees who are not fully 100% God conscious unalloyed pure uttama-adhikari devotees are:
1 - Bhrama: the propensity to commit mistakes
2 - Karanpatava: the living entity's senses are imperfect
3 - Pramada: the propensity to be inattentive or illusioned
4 - Vipralipsa: the propensity to cheat
- - - o - - -
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta
CC Madya 19.167:
anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaḿ
jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam
ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-
śīlanaḿ bhaktir uttamā
"When first-class devotional service develops, one must be devoid of all material desires, knowledge obtained by monistic philosophy, and fruitive action. The devotee must constantly serve Krsna favorably, as Krsna desires."
[Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada]
[PADA: Anyone with more details should send to:
angel108b@yahoo.com]
Thursday, October 24, 2019
Tripurari Swami and others on "Female Diksha Gurus"
Tripurari swami:
1. Lineage descending from Jahnava Thakurani and Narayani Devi down to Prana Gopal Goswami, a respected acarya of the sampradaya in the early 1900's in Bengal: 2 men, 9 ladies.
2. Lineage descending from Lokanatha Gosvami and Narottama Das Thakura down to Siddha Sakhicaran Das Babaji: 10 men.
3. Lineage descending from Advaita Acarya and his son Krishna Mishra down to Nikunja Gopal Goswami of Navadvip: 6 men, 6 ladies.
4. Lineage descending from Jahnava Thakurani and Dhananjaya Pandit down to Kunjabihari Das Babaji: 13 men, 1 lady.
5. Lineage descending from Lokanatha Gosvami and Narottama Das Thakura down to Jnanananda Cakravarti Thakura: 10 men, 7 ladies.
6. Lineage descending from Jahnava Thakurani down to Tinkadi Goswami: 14 men.
7. Lineage descending from Jahnava Thakurani down to Bhaktivinoda Thakura: 8 men, 4 ladies.
This makes a total of 62 men and 27 ladies— 30% ladies out of the total 89 gurus in the lines given above. It should give us an idea of the general pattern one will find throughout the Gaudiya lineages.
[PADA: OK and where does Srila Prabhupada validate any of these lineages? And why did Sridhara Maharaja want the GBC to vote in more acharyas, after being told they were deviating? How can deviating people vote in acharyas?]
AD: So why should we take those apa-sampradayas as a role-models? If Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur and Srila Prabhupada showed us the real siksa lineage is all men and 0 ladies?
DK: Srila Prabhupada never -- ever -- gave any attention to Bipin Bihari Goswami and his "guru line" where all these so-called female acaryas appeared. I would just like to warn anyone who ventures into such nonsense to remember how Srila Prabhupada dealt with his first sanskrit editor Nitai whom he rejected and called 'a venomous serpent' after Nitai mixed with the babajis and other sampradayas. In some way at least those who went out of ISKCON are better off than those who want to remain in ISKCON, and turn ISKCON into an apa-sampradaya.
JN: I find it amazing that ISKCON gurus are now looking to the Caste Goswamis and other non-valid lines for how the "tradition" is supposed to be done. "This makes a total of 62 men and 27 ladies ... making up mostly a bunch of bogus apa sampradayas."
RN: The List of Acaryas in Srila Prabhupada's Gita shows: zero female acaryas. He did not support that idea.
YOUTUBE.COM
Aindra Prabhu on female gurus
ND: I want that all of my spiritual sons and daughters will inherit this title of Bhaktivedanta, so that the family transcendental diploma will continue through the generations. Those possessing the title of Bhaktivedanta will be allowed to initiate disciples. Maybe by 1975, all of my disciples will be allowed to initiate and increase the numbers of the generations. That is my program.”
(Letter to Hamsaduta—Los Angeles 3 December, 1968)
“So I hope that all of you, men, women, boys and girls, become spiritual master, and follow this principle. Spiritual master, simply, sincerely, follow the principles and speak to the general public. Then Krsna immediately becomes your favorite. Krsna does not become your favorite; you become Krsna’s favorite. Krsna says in theBhagavad-gita, na ca tasmad manusyesu kascin me priya-krttamah: ‘One who is doing this humble service of preaching work, Krsna consciousness, nobody is dearer than him to Me.’ So if you want to become recognized by Krsna very quickly, you take up this process of becoming spiritual master, present the Bhagavad-gita as it is. Your life is perfect. Thank you very much.”
(Vyasa-puja Lecture—London, August 22, 1973)
(Letter to Hamsaduta—Los Angeles 3 December, 1968)
“So I hope that all of you, men, women, boys and girls, become spiritual master, and follow this principle. Spiritual master, simply, sincerely, follow the principles and speak to the general public. Then Krsna immediately becomes your favorite. Krsna does not become your favorite; you become Krsna’s favorite. Krsna says in theBhagavad-gita, na ca tasmad manusyesu kascin me priya-krttamah: ‘One who is doing this humble service of preaching work, Krsna consciousness, nobody is dearer than him to Me.’ So if you want to become recognized by Krsna very quickly, you take up this process of becoming spiritual master, present the Bhagavad-gita as it is. Your life is perfect. Thank you very much.”
(Vyasa-puja Lecture—London, August 22, 1973)
[PADA: Will be able to initiate in the capacity of priests and not acharyas. Of course this was never implemented because there were too many troubles even getting a few people to the priest stage. ys pd]