Bhajan Clubbing / John Joeseph / Self Diksha Update 11 07 25

Bhajan Clubbing? Oh my! 

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SELF DIKSHA?

PADA to MD: Right, you are against Krishna Kant / IRM, but you agree with him that we should not conduct initiations of brahmanas. OK except Prabhupada said we need to have 50 initiated brahmanas in Berkeley to manage the deities pooja here. He never said that we should stop the process of making brahmanas to worship the deity, and stop the deity pooja. Now your plan is to have no deity pooja, which is minus the program made by the acharya for the pooja. 

Some form of initiations are required for deity pooja, he said that and ordered that. You are not his boss. To say we should break the habit of making poojaris for Krishna is - not what he ordered. He said these programs are needed, and you want to make a Prabhupada movement -- minus Prabhupada's orders, and minus deity pooja as he orders. 

The idea of worship of a pure devotee was also not made by 20 years ago by Krishna Kant, it was made by Krishna millions of years ago. That is what I thought you said, we should stop the process of worship of the deity -- as ordered by the acharya -- and have no one properly trained and initiated as brahmanas in the temple to worship the deity. The temple programs he ordered should cease. 

That was never ordered by the acharya. 

Sorry, you did not explain any of this. Rather, you keep saying the trillions of years process of making pure devotee pooja was made 20 years ago by Krishna Kant, which is not what happened. Krishna makes the process, not Krishna Kant. 

Sorry, we should be making qualified initiated people to do Krishna's pooja, that is the order of the acharya, which means it is the order of Krishna. He never said this order should be changed or jettisoned. Meanwhile, the ritviks are the main people printing and distributing original books, or any books. Your proposal seems to be missing how that will be done as well? How will people get the divyam jnanam, or the books, if no one (ok the ritviks) are printing and distributing them? 

ys pd

PADA: OK MD, so let me get this right. The ritviks are going to be the people printing and distributing books. And they are the main people making original books, and suing the BBTI. 

The ritviks are also going to be the people who make temples, train people in pooja, and are making programs for the deities. And this is also called training people how to worship Krishna, and how to make temple programs and functions for these deities. 

The ritviks are also the ONLY people who are going to be making court cases against the GBC for mass child mistreatment, no one else is. 

The ritviks are also the ONLY people who forwarded the 1977 p*ison complaint tapes. No one else did. 

Then, after the ritviks are doing all this heavy lifting of making all these things happen, you walk in and tell the same people that our process made into devotees, you did not need any of our help, you are sva-diksha, you only need yourself, you initiate yourself, and thus you will learn everything all by yourself. 

OK well I doubt you will find many people who are becoming devotees without help from other devotees. Srila Prabhupada simply never said that everyone will just become sva-diksha / self made devotees all by themselves -- with no help from others, that is simply NOT the system he made. But go ahead, lets see how many people become devotees without any instruction or input from other devotees. Lets see how your sva-diksha, initiating oneself with no help, works.

I get nice questions from devotees from all over the place, thus I should tell them not to ask questions to me, just sva-diksha yourself and be on your own authority, no need to associate with us, and figure it all out on their own. That is not the process, to abandon helping others and let them sva-everything on their own without our help, our job is to guide and help people, that is the proper process, and we are. 

Again, you keep saying that the ritviks are something made up from 20 years ago with Krishna Kant, but Vedic priests have been around since trillions of years. 20 years is not trillions of years. 

If you are saying that people do not need other devotees to give them instructions, then yes, that is not what Prabhupada teaches. He never said we can abandon ship and let everyone sva-advance on their own with no help, that is against his orders. 

He said it is our duty to help and guide others, not tell them to sva-help themselves and learn everything on their own. They won't bother with a program that tells them -- there is no one to teach and guide them. They are on their own -- it is all sva-diksha / self help / no help. How will you even know if anyone is following your idea if you are against advising your sva-no help others. 

And if there are no trained brahmanas to do the deity pooja, that is totally against his orders as well, and makes Krishna into a stone statue that requires no care. 

You are the person making all these 2.0 additions -- that were never ordered by the acharya. And since everyone shall sva-diksha on their own, there is now no need for preaching or samkirtana etc., the citizens will advance on their own without any of our help. These are all speculations. 

It seems to me, the ritviks do all the hard work, then you annoint the people we helped get to know all these things -- as having no need for us. Thus eliminating us and being on their own, without us. That means you do not want to give credit to the people doing the actual work on the ground, and you want to credit yourself for helping them by telling them -- there is no help -- you have to sva-diksha yourself without any system to train or guide them. 

And all of these so-called self realized by themselves sva-diksha -- without our help -- folks will be your followers, because you are giving people the guidance --not to have any guidance, be sva-realized on your own power. 

You want to stop us from giving guidance, making yourself the only licenced agent. But help yourself by yourself -- see God within -- on your own etc. -- is actually another idea of the mayavada, find out the God within on your own, this is a feature of the mayavadas. None of this was mentioned by the acharya.

ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com