Update on Prabhupadanugas temple Malaysia

 

Vaisesika's New "Abominable Acharyas" Preaching

 Don’t Criticize Devotees – Dandavats

PADA: OK here we go. Even when the GBC's acharyas are behaving badly -- engaging in illicit sex with men; women and children; drinking Vodka; having sex with a half dozen disciples; shooting at occupied buildings with 4 rifles; offering LSD to the shalagram etc. -- they should be forgiven. No one should criticize. OK that is how we got to the current mess, we allowed deviants to pose as acharyas. 

And dissenters / Prabhupada worshipers are not to be forgiven, ever. Indeed, the Prabhupada worshipers are to be banned, beaten, sued and assassinated. What could go wrong here pilgrims? 

And that is why Vaisesika has a mainly Hindu cultural hall program, and he cannot appeal to the Western folks. Western people are not interested in worshiping a cult of debauchees as their messiahs, much less being told to shut up and not criticize a bogus cult of debauchee acharas. 

When the town drunk says he is another Jesus, none should criticize. OK that is not what the Vedas are saying. This is the Veda Vada Rata class of deviation, making false acharyas, and it takes a person to hell. Of course Vaisesika is a diksha guru himself, which means he is as good as Jesus and he can absorb sins too. Ummm, nope, he takes those sins with him into the next life. ys pd

angel108b@yahoo.com  

Can Tulsi Gabbard's Suggestions Work?

 Tulsi Gabbard: US is pushing for 'more destruction' in Ukraine conflict | Fox News

[PADA: Tulsi Gabbard says that people who disagree should just sit down and negotiate. Negotiate with whom?, these dictator type regimes -- like Putin's regime, or maybe the Iranian Mullah's regime? Fine, but the people living inside Russia -- ok the actual citizens who live there -- cannot "negotiate" with these Russian leaders, at all. 

Indeed many people fear the FSB's secret police, which stomps jack boots on dissenters, poisons people, makes people have strange accidental deaths, arrests people -- and sends them to the gulag etc. Fine negotiators here.   

Now, a lot of RUSSIAN civilian folks are trying to escape. Tulsi does not seem to comprehend, people who resist the war effort in Russia are routinely beaten up, jailed or worse. For example, one protestor was tortured badly and he had his bones broken. Other protestors are being clubbed in the head and they have fractured skulls etc. 

How is Tulsi planning on sitting down and negotiating with these folks? And when is she going to do that?  

Ambulances with wounded protestors are taking the wounded -- to the police station -- not the hospital. OK these victims are going to suffer, or die, without getting proper treatment. And that is the plan, make them suffer or die. And that is how any ordinary person would be treated if they were a citizen there and protesting. She is not going to do any better at "negotiating" than the people who already live there. Or what is the plan?

So lets sit down and have tea and crumpets with these guys and "negotiate" some nice happy kumbaya party. Really? And for that matter, lets see how long any group of women would last in Iran without their head scarves. They round all of  these ladies up for jail. Evidently! Tulsi cannot negotiate anything with any of these people either, or she would have done so a long time ago. 

It is all sentimentalism. Lets all sit down and play patty cakes and act like nice kindergarten kids, with people holding sticks, clubs, mace and assault rifles, or who are even clubbing the heads of women with nightsticks. Won't work little cricket! 

Then Tulsi is upset with the broken pipeline causing environmental issues. OK true, but what about Russia's bombing chemical plants -- causing huge plumes of toxic materials? Or bombing industrial sites, oil refinery plants, electrical plants, sewer plants, schools, hospitals, dams etc. -- or their just leaving dead bodies all over the place that are being eaten by loose pets. 

And then again what about very foul smelling fluids draining off the remnants of dead bodies which is leeching into the water table, poisoning the water supply? Evidently that is not a big problem? But if the oil and gas is in trouble, it is worthy of mention. The whole of Ukraine is turning into an environmental mess, it is not just this one pipeline. Anway, lets see her negotiate anything with any of these people. Not holding my breath here.

And we had the same type issue in ISKCON. Well jeepers Mr. PADA why are you not just going to the GBC meeting and sorting all this out? Negotiating! I dunno, is it the banning, beating, suing and assassinating of dissenters that causes us to avoid them? This is all sentimentalism. 

When I was in Los Angeles working on the child abuse issue, all sorts of GBC folks were on the sidewalk chit chatting with their lawyers. They saw me all the time, and never once wanted to engage in a discussion. 

Then the Los Angeles police warned me, these people want to kill you. OK negotiating means, there has to be two parties interested in negotiating from the get go. If that is not happening, you might have to ask, is one side comprised of psychopathic narcissists, tyrants and imperious dictator types? If so, you go negotiate with them, first, and let me know how it turns out! ys pd   

angel108b@yahoo.com

Vaiyasaki Das: ISKCON's Guror Avajna

 Vaiyasaki Das

September 28, 2021

A few comments on how Prabhupada's ISKCON is developing.

1. Is ISKCON meant to present a philosophy only, or are we meant to present an alternative way of life as well?

Prabhupada directed us to show the example of a spiritual lifestyle based on the teachings and philosophy of Lord Caitanya. [namaste sarasvati deve gaura vani pracarine...]

This Gaura Vani is meant to be spread and replace the present worldwide nirvisesa sunyavadi lifestyle, in order to deliver Western people pascatya desa tarine from a hellish destination.

Prabhupada taught that Example is much more convincing than Precept. So when we only present precepts -- then we only give a theoretical presentation instead of a practical example.

When Prabhupada said that about varnasrama, 50% of his work was unfinished, he intended that we must finish it. Otherwise, ISKCON remains a theoretical movement lacking examples to establish it as a practical and viable alternative way of life. 

He instructed us to implement daivi varnasrama - rural communities for ISKCON members, based on krishi go-raksha principles. 

He wanted us to implement this catur varnyam maya srstam type of lifestyle for the benefit of the general public, as well as for the members of ISKCON. He gave us so many instructions on this matter.

By not implementing these instructions, we became guilty of guror avajna, and ISKCON will continue to suffer negative results until we finally implement his directives.

2. Is our goal to find a way to fit comfortably into the current flow of the modern world? Or are we meant to change the world’s cultural, social, and economical structures?

Consider the following point: If ISKCON leadership would have glorified and preached a grhastha lifestyle and encouraged couples to have many children, instead of glorifying and instituting a brahmacarya/sannyasa model, ISKCON would now have 4 or 5 times as many devotees! Moreover, many women and gurukulis would not have left ISKCON for other sangas.

If we had implemented Prabhupada's daivi varnasrama system in the ‘70s, we would today be in the vanguard showing the example of self-sufficiency, organic gardening, healthy living, and cow protection throughout the world.

We should be offering organic cruelty-free milk, fruit, and veggies to our Deities, instead of being fully dependent on ugra-karma factories supplying these things because we have not developed the resources to offer our Deities the best for Their eating pleasure.

By not following the instructions of the Founder Acharya, ISKCON loses instead of benefits. 

Every problem in spiritual life is a direct result of not following the instructions of guru - guror avajna.

3. Are we so eager to gain a seat at the table of established institutions that we are no longer willing to take a challenging position that is contrary to the established narrative?

When we joined ISKCON it was the movement to go back to Godhead in this life. It was not the movement to become an established religion alongside other faiths. It was not the movement to become an established institution in the material world. 

Rather, it was the movement to show the world that material life is NOT the answer to the world’s problems. Yes, it was the movement to rock the boat and explain that without a spiritual dimension, without devotional service, there is no solution to the problems of life.

We challenged - anyone can experience God consciousness by establishing a relationship with God via chanting His holy names. We challenged - come live with us and your life will become sublime. If we had stayed on track we would now have hundreds of successful krishi go-raksha communities worldwide.

But when Prabhupada left, we sold most of our rural land, or lost it via repossession, because we fell asleep at the wheel. ISKCON lost land that today is 100 times more costly to acquire. 

It was a great failure on our part, and the longer we delay in implementing this other 50% of Prabhupada’s mission, the more irrelevant ISKCON will become because other groups are now doing what we should have been doing decades ago!

So the example is always more convincing than the precept. A simple search for 'eco villages' on YouTube will reveal how many people, in so many countries, are going off grid and living self-sufficient lifestyles today. 

ISKCON should have been leaders in this field. Instead we are laggards. Others are implementing what Prabhupada wanted us to implement but they are doing so without devotional service to Radha and Krishna. 

PADA On Hindu Forum

PADA: ISKCON has been hi-jacked by false acharyas. They even publicly state that their acharyas lineage contains -- those engaged in illicit sex, drugs, drinking Vodka, shooting at occupied buildings with live ammunition in 4 rifles, watching porno, being sued for $400,000,000 for mass child abuse etc. That is why their gurus mostly fled the West and went to India, which is where they made into a sort of Hindu business over there, conducting car poojas, baby blessings, marriages and even funerals. 

Some of their worst criminal gurus are buried in samadhi in India. That means India has to wake up and quit supporting them, they are not following Prabhupada. Prabhupada never said that Krishna's acharyas and successors are a pack of sexual predators, debauchees, drunks, drug addicts and etc. and India needs to reclaim their standards for acharyas and remove these deviants. 

They fled the West because in the West we know the acharya has to be like Jesus, a pure person, so they went to India to promote their debauchees guru system because -- India has accepted them, funds them, supports them, worships them etc. This is the problem we chased them out of the West, because in the West, no one is allowed to say God's successors are drunks and sexual predators, because Jesus is the standard for God's successor here and they cannot pull their foolish tricks here. 

Just look at the art of their acharyas and you tell me if they are pure as Krishna? Hinduism is being disrespected by saying that Hindu's and Krishna's acharyas are often drunks and debauchees, and it is an insult to Krishna. ys pd

Samkirtana in Kiev

Wow. Pretty nice!

Meanwhile some Russian devotees are reporting

feeling a little nervous about getting called up.

Wow, it is like the Viet Nam war pt. II.

Our devotees were afraid of being called up

in the 1960s! 

History keeps recycling.

Worshiping Goddess Durga at Navaratri

Goddess Durga Devi

Durga Devi is a very popular and revered deity in India, more so in Bengal and eastern India. She is also worshipped as Kali, Chandi, Kaushiki and is seen as a beautiful motherly woman riding a lion, with ten arms, each carrying a weapon. Those who worship her believe that she is the protector and the bestower of all opulence and prosperity. However, in truth, she is the deity in charge of the Lord’s material energy. Let us look into our scriptures to understand some interesting facts regarding the worship of Durga Devi and the right mood in which one should approach her.

Who Is Goddess Durga?

Goddess Durga is the deity in-charge of the Lord’s material energy.

The supreme Lord’s energy can be categorized as – internal energy (spiritual), marginal energy (all living entities) and external energy (material). The supreme Lord uses His material energy to accomplish creation – maintenance – destruction of the material world, and the personification of that shakti or material energy is Goddess Durga. 

She is the presiding deity of the Lord’s material energy and controls the entire material realm or the Devi dham which comprises of millions of universes. Durga literally means one who controls the durg, (durg in hindi means kila or fortress); and we living entities are trapped within this prison of the material world life after life. We are conditioned by the three modes of material nature (sattva guna, rajo guna, tamo guna) i.e we are influenced by maya and are under the spell of illusion. Maya means that which is not (ma - not, ya – this). We forget our true identity and are strongly made to believe that by fulfilling our material desires and sense gratification, we will be happy.

In the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna tells us that:

daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī
mama māyā duratyayā
mām eva ye prapadyante
māyām etāṁ taranti te

This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it.

-Srimad Bhagavad Gita 7.14

So the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes (gunas) of material energy and the only way to get free from the clutches of material nature is by surrendering at the lotus feet of Lord Krishna.

However common people are generally distracted under the influence of rajo and tamo gunas. To fulfill their material desires – prosperity, good health, wealth, fame etc. they approach various demigods and Durga devi; who in reality are controllers of specific departments under the Lord’s administration. It is generally believed that Goddess Durga bestows material wealth, opulence, fame, beauty etc. (rupang dehi, dhanang dehi, jayang dehi, yaso dehi). In our scriptures, there are recommendations for worshiping different Gods for different purposes. So they follow those rules eg. fasting on certain days, puja etc. to appease these demigods, for immediate fulfillment of their material desires.

kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ
prapadyante ’nya-devatāḥ
taṁ taṁ niyamam āsthāya
prakṛtyā niyatāḥ svayā

Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.

Srimad Bhagavad Gita 7.20

Although after appeasing Goddess Durga, our material desires might be fulfilled; actually her kindness is only a delusion, since we continue in the cycle of birth and death, because the wheel of karma is the instrument of punishment here. It is said that mother Durga is like the mistress of the prison where we living entities, are all prisoners. To escape from this prison we must surrender at the lotus feet of Krishna.

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ

After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare.

Srimad Bhagavad Gita 7.19

So we have already had millions of births and if we wish to escape from this bondage of birth and death, we should approach Lord Krishna and surrender unto Him.

The Greatness Of Lord Krishna

Thus Durga devi has been given the responsibility to oversee the creation, maintenance and destruction (sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya) of the material world and she performs these duties in accordance with the Lord’s will. This is clearly stated in the Brahma Samhita - a compilation of prayers spoken at the time of creation, by Lord Brahma, in the glorification of Lord Govinda (Sri Krishna).

sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā
chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā
icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

The external potency Māyā who is of the nature of the shadow of the cit potency, is worshiped by all people as Durgā, the creating, preserving and destroying agency of this mundane world. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda in accordance with whose will Durgā conducts herself

Brahma Samhita 5.44

So it is said that Lord Krishna engages Durga Devi or Maya (shadow or reflection of the cit shakti, the true substance); in creation, preservation and maintenance of the material world. Hence Lord Krishna engages His material energy through the agency of Goddess Durga. Krishna desires and mother Durga executes that will. She may execute His will as yogamaya or mahamaya. Yogamaya is that which connects a devotee in the loving transcendental service of the Lord and Mahamaya is that which brings the living entity under the spell of illusion, thereby making them forget Krishna. Lord Balaram was transferred from the womb of mother Devaki to the womb of mother Rohini, by this yogamaya shakti of the Lord. Goddess Durga is subordinate to the will of the supreme Lord. She is His pure, humble servant and she carries out His orders, as a pure exalted Vaishnavi.

The fact that Lord Krishna is the Supreme Controller and the other demigods assist Him, is also mentioned in the Chaitanya Charitamrita.

ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa, āra saba bhṛtya
yāre yaiche nācāya, se taiche kare nṛtya

Lord Kṛṣṇa alone is the supreme controller, and all others are His servants. They dance as He makes them do so.

Sri Chaitanya Charitamrita 5.142

The Goddess of fortune, Lakshmi, Brahmaji and Shiva are not independently powerful but are powerful as the expansions of the Lord and are engaged in His service. Lord Krishna states in the Bhagavad Gita that He is the supreme controller of the material world, though He remains aloof from it.

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ
sūyate sa-carācaram
hetunānena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate

This material nature, which is one of My energies, is working under My direction, O son of Kuntī, producing all moving and nonmoving beings. Under its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again.

Srimad Bhagaavd Gita 9.10

It is said that we the jivas, which are the Lord’s marginal energy (tatastha shakti), have forgotten our true identity and so life after life, we take birth within this material world which is a place of suffering. To get out of this prison, we must approach Lord Krishna and surrender unto His lotus feet. 

By worshiping Durga Devi, we cannot enter the kingdom of the Lord which is Goloka Dham and Hari Dham. Goddess Durga controls living entities in the material world or the Devi Dham. Above the Devi Dham is the Hari Dham and still above it is Goloka Dham which is the eternal abode of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krishna. Lord Krishna states in the Bhagavad Gita:

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā
yānti mad-yājino ’pi mām

Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; and those who worship Me will live with Me.

Srimad Bhagavad Gita 9.25

The Conclusion

So worship of Durga devi, can grant us temporary material opulence and benefits, but we continue to remain in the prison of this material world.

So our right understanding about Goddess Durga should be:

Goddess Durga is the personification of the supreme Lord’s material energy. She controls the material world under directions of the supreme Lord.

People desiring - wealth, prosperity good health and fame approach Durga devi, however this only leads to entanglement in the cycle of birth and death.

Worship of Durga devi cannot release us from the clutches of this material world.

Only by surrendering at the lotus feet of Lord Krishna, can we enter into the kingdom of the Lord.

==============================

Nava Durga in Navaratri

Navaratri is the most celebrated form of feminine worship ever. Different manifestations of that one supreme Goddess are worshiped during these days. The nine incarnations of Durga are majorly worshipped by everyone. 

These nine forms are colorful, ecstatic, vibrant, ferocious, benign and motherly at the same time. Each form exhibits a certain quality of Devi and it is said only by worshiping and imbibing her quality within will bring your transformation. These forms are abundant in energy and are ever blissful. They go in a sequence, the first one Shailputri, the Daughter of mountain king himavan. Being associated with a mountain she is known for her greatest strength.

Second is Bramhacharini, the lady known for her great penance. She is the ultimate yogi and a master in raising consciousness. Through her worship, a being realizes the presence of universal consciousness within themselves.

Third is ferocious Chandraghanta, considered a warrior but also gentle like moonlight, her worship brings inner balance.

Fourth is Kushmanda, the form of Devi is primordial where the universe is supposed to be born from her womb. She grants us her motherly nature and strength.

The fifth one is Skanda Mata, the mother of Skanda/Kartikeya. Kartikeya with the celestial powers and weapons granted by Mother Parvati brought down the demons in the war. This form gives inner strength and the capability to deal with difficulties in life.

The sixth one is fiery Katyayani, she appeared when the world was terrorized by evil forces. She fought and killed all the demons in war and brought relief to mankind. By her worship, you can become victorious upon your anger, depression, lust, greed, ego, high-handedness and rest of mental enemies.
Seventh is Kaal Ratri, the Devourer of time.

Kaal Ratri releases one from the continuous cycles of maya, which are birth & death. She grants liberation to her bhaktas.

Eighth is beautiful Maha Gauri, the blissful and gorgeous wife of Lord Shiva. Her bodily glow is beyond thousands of Suns combined. As she grants highest purity/sattva/crytal clear glowing perception to your awareness.

Ninth is Siddhidatri, the form of Mother who grants you the necessary siddhis/powers both material & spiritual ones to lead a stable & dharmic life. She gives you the ultimate empowerment to win over your obstacles.She also grants bramhavidya/highest realisation to her devotees.

Goddess Durga is sometimes worshiped as a 

"Stri rupa" or female form of Krishna,

because she has many of the potencies of Krishna and

is therefore almost same in quality as Krishna Himself. 

Russia's Wealthy High Priest / Women VS Men Fighters

Looks like ISKCON Guru?

Kirill's relationship with Putin may even come with some material benefits. In 2006, The Moscow News estimated Kirill's net worth at $4 billion. In 2012, the patriarch was photographed wearing a $30,000 wristwatch.

09/24/22. The head of the Russian Orthodox Church urged Russians not to fear death after some 300,000 reservists were called up to fight in Ukraine. “Go bravely to fulfill your military duty. And remember that if you lay down your life for your country, you will be with God in his kingdom, glory and eternal life,” Patriarch Kirill, a staunch ally of President Vladimir Putin, said in a sermon at the Zachatyevsky Monastery in Moscow on Wednesday.

Kirill, who has justified the invasion of Ukraine by arguing that Russians and Ukrainians were historically one people, said in his sermon that a person of “true faith” is not afraid of dying. According to the clergyman, a person becomes “invincible” when he stops fearing death.

PADA: Yep, help me add another billion to my bank account, help me buy my new Rolex and yacht, and you go to heaven. Except Srila Prabhupada says soldiers who die in military conflicts in Kali Yuga all go to hell, because these wars are not being fought on religious principles. 

Indeed, all sorts of horrible things are happening to innocent civilians in Ukraine due to this war, and this will not be forgiven by the higher authority. 

At the same time -- many, many, many people have told me ISKCON's whole problem is based on the same issue, some people are making a bundle of money from this whole guru scam, and that is why they defend and protect it. And that is why no one really cares about the victims, they are cannon fodder.

 

Women fighters vs:

Fleeing Men fighters

There you have it folks. Suppose PADA editor has to go to war with either 100 of these Iran ladies, or 100 of these fleeing Russian men. OK give me these ladies, they are more brave than all of these men here put together. 

These women are out there getting shot in the head, day after day, but they keep fighting. These men? They are fleeing the fighting. Yep, women can be better fighters than the men, especially in Kali yuga. 

These women might lose the battle, or might not, but its not from lack of fighting. These Iran women should not be engaged in any battle whatever, but they are not being protected by the men, that is another Kali Yuga symptom. Oh oh, same as ISKCON. A bunch of ladies are protesting molester guru Lokanath swami, where are all the brave men?  

ys pd 

angel108b@yahoo.com

Effects of Chanting Survey

 "Effects of Chanting Hare Krishna Mahamantra on various age groups and on Healthy Vs People with Disorders" (google.com)

Scary Things Kids Have Said (Yahoo)

 "This Is Where I Died Before": 32 Parents Shared The Scariest Things Their Kids Have Ever Said, And My Teeth Are Chattering (yahoo.com)

Purnacandra Swami on Lokanath's Issue

Dandavats.com

September 22 at 1:55 AM  

Judging Others & Jumping To Conclusions.

Purnacandra das Goswami: Westerners, in general, take too much for granted and are not careful enough in social dealings.

Modern Western society conditions one to artificially come too close, too soon without respect for one another. Modern Western society respects nothing beyond fame, money and sexual prowess; it is the antithesis of Vaishnava culture.

Prematurely judging others and jumping to conclusions are other negative traits found almost everywhere, which most of us must admit. These traits, born of the mode of passion, create dissension. We should seek to understand our fellow devotees and try to accommodate them. This principle is basic to all religious people and holds true even in mundane dealings.

Here is a story that illustrates the point of prematurely judging others and jumping to conclusions. Once, a man was sitting on a park bench, quietly reading a newspaper. A moment later, another man with three children came along and also sat down on the bench.

The man with the children looked morose and stared at the ground, but his children began to clamor for attention. The man ignored them and the children began to fight among themselves. The first man was trying to concentrate on his newspaper, but the children were making quite a disturbance. He thought, “Why doesn’t this man control his children?”

Ten minutes passed. Finally the first man suddenly put down his newspaper and turned to the second man and said, “Why the hell don’t you control your children? Can’t you understand that they’re creating a nuisance? It’s so disturbing!”

The second man slowly turned to the first, and with tears in his eyes, replied, “My wife has just died of cancer. I’ve come from the hospital. My children think that she’s gone to sleep. They don’t know that she’s dead, but they sense that something’s wrong. I don’t know how to explain it to them.” On hearing this, the first man realized that he had made a mistake. He acted too soon without properly understanding the situation.

Nowadays, if a devotee is accused of something, many jump to a conclusion and consider him guilty without knowing the details. And if a devotee is factually guilty of a crime or misbehavior, many hold it against him even twenty years later, never considering the possibility that he could have repented and become purified through devotional service. This closed-mindedness indicates a lack of faith in the process of bhakti and a lack of proper culture.

DF Dasi: Unfortunately, the traits he describes at the beginning are not exclusive to Western society. And I agree with you, MM Dasi: the last paragraph is heavy on the gaslight and spiritual manipulation.

If Lokanath Swami had repented or become purified, I believe he then would have stepped down as a spiritual leader. Holding leaders accountable for hurting others ir not having a closed-minded mentality.

MM Dasi: Thank you for your comment and validating that i’m not alone in what i was seeing.

I was pretty surprised to see this article coming from Dandavats as I considered it to be a somewhat impartial source of information but maybe i was just naive.

DF Dasi: If it helps in any way, this anecdote has been my beacon of light:

Yamuna: Srila Prabhupada, although we are very happy where we are, we are prepared to go wherever you would like to send us in order to have your blessings.

Srila Prabhupada: You westerners are always so restless. Why can’t you stay where you are?

Yamuna: But we have been told that because we don’t have the association of devotees, we cannot make any advancement.

Srila Prabhupada: Association can be two or two hundred. But you must be compatible. If you are two and are compatible, you can go back to Godhead. But if you are two hundred and not compatible [his eyes open widely], then no one will make any advancement.

Yamuna: But Srila Prabhupada, some of the leaders are saying that we have lost your mercy because we left ISKCON and without your mercy there is no meaning to our lives.

Srila Prabhupada: ISKCON is where you are chanting the Holy Names of Krsna. That is ISKCON. (Yamuna Devi, A Life of Unalloyed Devotion).

At this moment I'm not attending any ISKCON temple or program, although my friend and I do monthly kirtan programs in the downtown for people who are friendly and interested. We even did a book club about the book "Bhakti Shakti", from Pranada Comtois. None of the participants where part of ISKCON and it was truly inspiring hearing their spiritual realizations along the weeks.

I don't feel inspired at the moment to attend temples or conventional programs. I mostly connect with other like-minded vaishnavis and I've taken shelter mostly from senior vaishnavis. I don't think Prabhupada and Krishna are found exclusively in ISKCON, and it's liberating for me knowing that I can practice Bhakti from a place of freedom. I don't like organized religion or institutions... not much of a church goer! 

MM Dasi: Thank you for sharing this!

MD Dasi: As far as I know -- Dandavats was started by the GBC to provide the devotees worldwide exclusively with articles showing Srila Prabhupada's movement in a positive light. ISKCON critical articles are never posted. The website is replacing two previous websites, Chakra and Dipika, where devotees could freely write and express themselves also regarding negative topics and discuss them with others.

Dandavats claim to be impartial, but they also call themselves "GBC friendly"...

MM Dasi: Thank you for more info ...

NT Dasa: The story about the 2 men and the uncontrolled children is a story lifted from Stephen Covey, in his book and lectures on the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. Great story, great book, great material. I wish more of the world would interact on the platform of those basic principles. But what Swami Maharaj is also failing to mention is the many other core principles that Covey espouses. Like: 

Don't act duplicitous. Honor the absent. Keep your promises. The so called Western devotees are angry because the GBC has acted with duplicity over and over and over again- it's been a 40+ year sordid affair of duplicity. And people are fed up, just as they are in the current world of fractured polarizing politics. 

The GBC cabal fail to even acknowledge the fact that they do not keep their promises (which if I can remind you, is also a core Vaishnava trait) and that ratches up the anger exponentially. IT'S THE DUPLICITY, STUPID (ITDS) Swami Maharaj, you can't sing "Kumbaya, why can't we all get along" while stepping on my foot. Doing so makes you look like you are not steeped in reality or worse, that you are part of that manipulative cabal.

SF Dasi: "Westerners, in general" are usually familiar with at least basic human manners and with the meaning "sexual predator". Westerners know that it is socially unacceptable to stare and size - up women they don't even know , (unless they are soliciting prostitution / " exotic" dance ); nor do they openly "take women's measurements" with their eyes "( English?) in the place of worship.

The Westerners also don't push and shove and injure mothers with small children in order to have Deiteis Darsan on crowded holy Festival days. Most importantly, the Westerners are not desensitized to the level of thinking that groping women is normal; nor that sexual assault is just teasing. 

Unlike Asians (sadly still all Asians, it seems, with largest numbers in South Asia, but also East and SE Asia, apparently, with their" Eve -Teasing"). Westerners also know that preying in children for sexual activities of all sorts is pedophilia, (including hebephilia), and therefore criminal offence. They usually live in countries where you cannot bribe and nepotism - away any crime that easily. 

And many of them got tired of generation after generation of children being abused by hypocrites in religious cloth , and decided to call such clergy, and Churches, what they are.

DK Das: I knew Purnachandra Goswami were well. We used to have lenghty discussions on many topics. Definitely he was not a person who won't be in favor of child protection etc. He was a very straightforward and sometimes uneasy debate opponent. 

Once he gave a lesson on Sunday Feast saying this is the process where Arjuna had to reject and kill his Gurus, Parasurama had to kill his mother etc. He said this is not a sentimental process singing Radhe Radhe etc. but you will be challenged to do many things., After lesson he was asked never to give a lesson again hahaha.

N Das: Acaryas, Mahajanas are the seers of the truth and ultimate steering holders and not a condition souls with 4 defects. They have already given clear guidence that the principle is that a fallen sannyasi should not remain in that ashram what to speak of guru. 

MM Dasi: Seems so straightforward. the mental gymnastics and word jugglery to work around it is like a bunch of red herrings.

PADA: They promised the victim LS would not hold a post of authority. That was never done. Where is the repenting? Ys pd

angel108b@yahoo.com

Kailash Chandra Confirms Ritvik Order

Mahesh: Hare Krsna!

Simply -one- quote CC Madhya 24.330 demolishes Kailash Chandra's whole argument: NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided

The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.

Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse

MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho / brahmano vai gurur nrnam / sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih / maha-kula-prasuto 'pi / sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH /
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca / na guruh syad avaisnavah

The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ....When one has attained the topmost position of MAHA-BHAGAVATA, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY SUCH A PERSON IS ELIGIBLE TO OCCUPY THE POST OF A GURU.))

Note: The word DIKSITAH refers to Diksa and ONLY Maha Bhagavata is the one mentioned WHO give this BY DEFINITION.

PADA: Yes, there are many quotes like this one such as: the guru must be a resident of Krishna loka; the guru must be free of the four defects; the guru is an assistant of the gopis; the guru is an uttama adhikary etc. ad infinitum ... and if he is not ... there will be chaos and problems, as we have seen in spades. 

Meanwhile Kailash's whole idea that there will be a Madhyam guru emerging eventually -- who will have a limited amount of -- at best a dozen disciples -- does not solve the issue of how a world wide movement can continue. 

And since his "Madhyam guru" can only come from the stock of Srila Prabhupada's original disciples, he has not come up with a solution for what happens when all of them are dead and gone -- which will occur soon. Meanwhile, we have thousands of people following Srila Prabhupada now, and they are not sitting around waiting for the so-called Madhyam guru to emerge, a guru who can fall down even according to Kailash. The Prabhupadanugas are moving ahead without this phantasm Madhyam guru idea. The only good news is, it appears Kailash is moving closer to the ritvik idea. 

=====================

Hare Krsna!

ISKCON Authority: Where Did It Originally Come From? (And Where Does "ISKCON" Power Come From?)

BY: KAILASA CANDRA DASA

Sep 21, 2022 — USA (SUN) —

HARIḤ OM NAMAḤ

We find the following excerpt from an important room conversation between His Divine Grace Śrila Prabhupāda and members of his Governing Body Commission at the Krishna-Balaram temple on May 28, 1977 in Vṛndāvan, India:

Leading Secretary (1): The people who they give dīkṣā to, whose disciple are they?

Prabhupāda: They're his disciple.

Leading Secretary (1): They're his disciple.

Prabhupāda: Who is initiating. He is grand disciple.

Leading Secretary (2): Yes.

Leading Secretary (1): That's clear.

Leading Secretary (2): Then, we have a question . . .

Prabhupāda (interrupting): When I order, "You become guru," he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That's it.

A genuine dīkṣā-guru gives initiation. He takes on the sañchita-karma of his disciple when he initiates him or her. The rittvik does not give initiation. The rittvik conducts an initiation ceremony on behalf of the dīkṣā-guru, who must have first authorized him to conduct the fire sacrifice. The rittvik does not take on the sañchita-karma of the candidate for initiation. The guru who authorized the rittvik to conduct the fire sacrifice takes on that future karma.

[PADA: Wow. This is what we said all along. Unless one is a pure devotee who has sufficient brahmana tejyas to burn off sins, the neophyte or even intermediate (Madhyam) should not attempt to absorb sins from others. A Madhyam does not have sufficient brahman tejyas to burn the sins of others, and moreover Srila Prabhupada says it is possible for a Madhyam to once again become a demon if he hears Mayavada commentary. 

In sum, the Madhyam platform is not fully fixed, and Madhyama is still a conditioned soul who can fail, as Kailash admits further down. Therefore -- it is a mistake to make a Madhyam into a worshiped parampara member and diksha guru.] 

The dīkṣā-guru (who authorized the rittvik) is the one who is initiating. Either conducting the ceremony himself, or present from his vyāsasān, or not being physically present at all during the initiation ceremony, the people who Prabhupāda gave initiation to were and are his disciples. They were never any of the rittvik’s disciples, because the rittvik is not making disciples when conducting the ceremony.

Prabhupāda never ordered—at least, not officially and indisputably—any of his disciples to become a regular guru. There is no official record of it anywhere. That order was and remains required in order to be an initiating spiritual master in the Gauḍīya branch established by Prabhupāda. He only appointed rittviks in the second week of July, 1977.

Anyone, in any group or on his own, who preaches differently about the rittvik and the regular guru—or who calls the regular guru a rittvik—possesses no authority whatsoever in promoting the process of bhakti-yoga as espoused by any Vaiṣṇava disciplic succession. Such false propaganda should be rejected immediately. The regular guru is a dīkṣā-guru in his particular school of Vaiṣṇavism. The rittvik is no such thing and has never been such a thing.

True authority in devotional life comes from a Vaiṣṇava sampradāya or theistic Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa school. It consists of Absolute teachings and processes. It is validated by God-realized Ācāryas in an unbroken chain of disciplic succession. All gurus, representing and giving initiation into it as spiritual masters in that line, must be perfect men.

The guru, even if he is a madhyam-adhikārī or regular (regulated sadhaka) guru, must perfectly represent that line. Any functioning institution, one which actually initiates newcomers, is representing the previous Ācārya (capital “Ā”). That previous Ācārya is His Divine Grace Prabhupāda. The institution must consist of regular gurus, all of whom must perfectly represent the disciplic succession. Be assured, that perfect representation is not happening in “ISKCON.”

[PADA: There is no such thing as a regular / regulated / sadhaka diksha devotee performing the function of acharya, nor are any sadhaka diksha gurus listed by Srila Prabhupada in his list of acharyas. On the contrary, Srila Prabhupada says the guru must be an uttama adhikary, a resident of Krishna loka etc. 

None of the acharyas order us to worship a conditioned sadhaka who can fall down. Nor are any of these alleged ISKCON Madhyam devotees capable of writing all sorts of Vedic books like Srila Prabhupada has done etc. They do not have that level of divyam jnanam. There are limited abilities in the Madhyam platform, therefore he should only operate as an agent (ritvik).]

For the purposes in this presentation, the line of disciplic succession we are discussing is the Brahma-Madhva-Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava sampradāya. A. C. Bhaktivedānta Swāmi Prabhupāda, a mahā-bhāgavat and śaktyāveśa-avatār, established a branch of that line; it became incorporated as ISKCON in the mid-Sixties. He is now a departed spiritual master, the last uttama-adhikārī of his branch of disciplic succession originally represented by ISKCON.

Prabhupāda used the term “regular guru” at his headquarters in India, the Krishna-Balaram temple, on May 28, 1977. The term regular guru will be used repeatedly in this presentation, because he authorized it. Any dīkṣā-guru of his branch — and representing it as a regular guru via his authorization -- must be directly and specifically recognized as an initiating spiritual master by him.

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada does not describe a system where a regulated sadhaka can absorb the sins of other regulated sadhakas as a diksha guru. Diksha includes "ksha" -- which means to absolve or absorb the sins. A regulated sadhaka is still struggling to purify his own sins, he cannot encumber himself with other people's sins -- or he will suffer -- and they are suffering.]

In order to perfectly represent Prabhupāda as a dīkṣā-guru, such a regular guru must, of course, have been himself initiated by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedānta Swāmi, while he was physically manifest. 

[PADA: Well there you have it. As soon as all of the original Srila Prabhupada disciples are gone, there will be no more alleged "Krishna's successors" or gurus in ISKCON, either advertised as regulated sadhakas or full blown acharyas, or otherwise, because only his physically present current diksha disciples can perform the function of guru. 

That means -- ISKCON ends when they are all departed -- which is soon. We do not believe Srila Prabhupada intended that ISKCON would disappear once his original disciples disappeared. There has to be a system for the continuing of ISKCON for the long haul, maybe thousands of years, and relying on the original wave of "physically present original disciple gurus" is not going to work for ISKCON's long range future, or even for the short haul since most of them ALREADY deviated, failed, blooped, died etc.]

The Gauḍīya line is also known as the Caitanya sampradāya. In order to initiate new candidates into a connection with the disciplic succession of the Caitanya sampradāya, being initiated by Prabhupāda was nothing more than the first step in his branch.

The genuine guru, at bare minimum, must be fixed in the mode of goodness as a devotee of the Supreme Lord. In Prabhupāda’s branch, according to the injunction of His Divine Grace, such a regular guru must have received specific authorization from Prabhupāda in order to initiate. Having received the order, which also is a recognition, that disciple then—and then only--is a genuine dīkṣā-guru.

[PADA: No one got such an order, self-evidently, especially when we see all the chaos caused by the wanna-be acharyas running amok in ISKCON.]

He can initiate, and the newcomer becomes the disciple of that advanced disciple. Such a regular guru would require any sincere and serious candidate to have passed various tests before receiving initiation from him in order to secure connection to the sampradāya and the Holy Name.

[PADA: No, even an advanced sadhaka devotee cannot take the sins of another living entity. Apart from that, since the guru must be a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada when he was physically manifest, the pool of potential gurus is rapidly dwindling to zero under the Kailash idea. OK they are dying off, and more each day. 

So even if Kailash could establish one of the remaining "living disciples" as bona fide, he would not be here for very long anyway. They are mostly elderly, some very elderly, and many have already passed on. Others are on the verge of passing. So it is almost a mute point that one -- or some -- "living disciple" could or might be a guru, when he won't even be here long enough to have an impact.] 

Any and all other connections — in other words, any and all “connections” that do not meet this basic criteria -- are actually no connections at all. There are a preponderance of those at this time (e.g. “ISKCON,” Neo-Mutt, and Rittvik), and some of that will be detailed as the presentation proceeds.

[PADA: Generally, the disciples of Prabhupada give people books, people then read the books, and that is how they became connected to Krishna. Are we saying the books -- at one time in the past -- connected people to Krishna, but they no longer are connecting people to Krishna? And since Kailash never names the alleged Madhyam guru he proposes, he is the person with zero connection.]

Can a neophyte initiate a disciple into a connection with the guru-paramparā? It is a ridiculous idea, as verified by the following quote from Prabhupāda. During a platform lecture in New York City on March 2, 1966, Prabhupāda stated:

[PADA: Correct, the neophyte sadhaka is not capable of being a diksha guru, agreed.]

“In every step of his life the spiritual master guides him. . .he guides him so that he will--his life, his progress of life -- may be systematic. Now, to take such guidance means the spiritual master should also be a very perfect man.”

He made it clear very early in his movement that the neophyte cannot be guru, because the kaniṣṭhā-adhikārī is anything but a very perfect man. He is a third-class devotee.

On the other hand, the devotee known as a madhyam-adhikārī is elevated in advanced consciousness and is liberated from the susceptibility of being pierced by the lower modes of material nature. He is fixed in the mode of goodness, and, from that standpoint, he is a regular guru—a guru from nature’s study, one who must, however, still follow the rules and regulations of sādhana-bhakti.

[PADA: A person who is elevated to the modes of goodness is not yet perfect, he can still fall down to the lower modes because, as a matter of fact, the modes of goodness are still a material level of consciousness. The regulated devotee is still highly dependent on continuing the sadhaka following process, which is dependent on his continued pushing of himself forward in spiritual activity. 

That means as soon as he drops his guard, he can fail, and most of the devotees of Srila Prabhupada have dropped their guard and have failed -- either gross or subtle platform. Whereas the uttama devotee is on the spontaneous level, he performs service to Krishna automatically and is not struggling to stay on that platform. 

Moreover, since a regulated devotee cannot absorb sins without dire repercussions, he will be prone to fail just by the act of taking sins from others. Never mind all that, many people have been discussing this theoretical Madhyam devotee guru forever -- without ever showing any practical example of their idea in practice.] 

He can fall down. 

[PADA: Yep, Madhyama is not a fully fixed platform and is therefore not recommended for accepting as one's diksha guru. Meanwhile, no one ever identifies who is the advanced Madhyam guru.]

We find the following verification of the guru from nature’s study in an excerpt from a letter to one of Prabhupāda’s first temple presidents, dated April 26, 1968:

“The statements of Thakura Bhaktivinode are as good as scriptures, because he is liberated person. Generally, the spiritual master comes from the group of such eternal associates of the Lord, but anyone who follows the principles of such ever-liberated persons is as good as one in the above- mentioned group. The gurus from nature's study are accepted as such on the principle that an elevated person in Krishna consciousness does not accept anyone as disciple, but he accepts everyone as expansion of his guru.”

[PADA: Anyone who follows the guru will never take sins from others until he has the brahmana tejyas of an uttama devotee -- so he can help absorb / burn off the sins of his follower. A person who follows the principles is called a layman, and the layman cannot take the post of liberated acharya.]

That the madhyam-adhikārī can be an initiating spiritual master is verified in a purport to the Bhāgavatam, 2.3.21:

“The second-class devotees are therefore meant for preaching work, and . . . The second-class devotee accepts disciples from the section of third-class devotees or non-devotees.”

[PADA: Yes. Accepting disciples in the capacity of a shiksha devotee and not a diksha devotee. After all -- Kailash has just established that the Madhyama devotee can fall down, which means he is not a reliable anchor for one's spiritual position. Neither we should worship a person who can fall down in the first place, because by giving a conditioned soul false glory -- that boosts his ego -- and accelerates his falling down. Never mind -- loading up a sadhaka with sins accelerates his fall down.]

The uttama-adhikārī is the first-class devotee. The madhyam-adhikārī, the regular guru, is a second-class devotee who can initiate disciples. This spiritual law is validated. Any other abstruse philosophy is nothing more than a deviation, and should be fully rejected as soon as you hear it.

It is spiritual etiquette that a disciple, when qualified to initiate his own disciples, does not do so in the physical presence of his own spiritual master. This etiquette, however, is not in the category of spiritual law. If the spiritual master decides to recognize any of his disciples—or even all of them—to be regular guru (while he is still physically manifest), he can empower them as madhyams to initiate new people into a connection with the guru-paramparā.

Prabhupāda was prepared to do just that, and he explicitly made it known in excerpts from letters to two of his leading secretaries. In 1969, Prabhupāda wrote that he wanted not only his leading men but all of his disciples to assimilate the chief Vaiṣṇava sacred texts that he had translated (or was planning to translate). In that connection, he wanted examinations to be conducted—written and scored tests—on these sacred texts, (previously including Bhagavad-gita).

[PADA: Just because a person can pass a theoretical test on knowledge of shastra does not mean he is qualified to be a diksha guru. There are many scholarly devotees who later on blooped, started smoking cigarettes, started working as clerks in the liquor store, or even started to attack the Gaudiya process as bogus -- and so on.]

As has been quoted, he had referred to gurus from nature’s study being elevated persons in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. At that stage, they would be learned in the standard Vaiṣṇava scriptures. He was expecting them to initiate new disciples in his physical presence, with his official sanction. Here is verification of this hoped for program:

In a letter to Hansadutta, dated 1-3-69: “Maybe by 1975, all of my disciples will be allowed to initiate and increase the numbers of the generations. That is my program.”

In a letter to Kīrtanānanda, dated 1-12-69: “By 1975, all of those who have passed all of the above examinations will be specifically empowered to initiate and increase the number of the Krishna consciousness population.”

Please note: Prabhupāda was still with us in 1975. In reference to that final examination, Prabhupāda was referring to Teachings of Lord Chaitanya, Vedānta-sūtra, and Nectar of Devotion. He had not yet translated Vedānta-sūtra, but he was obviously planning to do so.

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada at the same time was saying his followers cannot be diksha gurus and take sins, which means, we would be acting as shiksha devotees (ritviks).]

The principle to glean from these excerpts is that His Divine Grace did not want a monopoly on initiation even during his physical presence. He instead wanted as many disciples as possible to become qualified enough to become regular gurus, recognized as dīkṣā-gurus by him.

[PADA: He never established such a system. Nor did he ever say any sadhaka, even an advanced one, could absorb sins. Nor does Kailash ever tell us who this imaginary Madhyam devotee is supposed to be.] 

He was hoping for that; indeed, it was his program. It was integral to his plan. Can Prabhupāda’s plan be succinctly summed up? In point of fact, it most certainly can, and His Divine Grace did so himself early on the movement.

Note the following principle of organization that he concisely gave—in effect, which he ordered—in this excerpt from a letter to Kīrtanānanda, dated 2-11-67:

“I wish that each and every branch shall keep their independent identity and cooperate, keeping the Ācārya in the center. On this principle, we can open any number of branches all over the world. The Ramakrishna Mission works on this principle, and, thus as organization, they have done wonderfully.”

[PADA: OK Rama Krishna mission makes Rama Krishna the center, and so we should make Srila Prabhupada the center. Making a bunch of conditioned souls into gurus or acharyas breaks down the mission.] 

Remember, just two years later, Prabhupāda had sent letters to two of his leading men--letters which clearly stated that he wanted his disciples (hopefully, by as soon as 1975)--to become initiating spiritual masters themselves after passing a final exam. That means that he expected them to soon become qualified initiating spiritual masters.

[PADA: He never implemented the process of having his disciples taking their own disciples. Nor did he ever explain how that would work, who would take the karma etc. The only thing he did say is, we could act as officiating ritviks. Not more. 

If he had wanted a system where we would be acting as some form of diksha gurus, he would have explained that process in detail. How would we take sins, how would we be worshiped, could the deity bhogha be offered to us etc. He didn't. He said -- do not change anything, and we should not.]

However, what kind of gurus? None of them were to become The Ācārya, because, as this excerpt from 1967 clearly demonstrates, all the centers were supposed to keep the Ācārya—meaning, of course, His Divine Grace Prabhupāda himself—in the center.

That he wanted his disciples to become gurus in his presence means that they were to become regular gurus, madhyam-adhikārīs. They were to transcend the neophyte stage and become learned, second-class devotees. That is not the greatest achievement in bhakti-yoga, of course. 

After having passed that final study exam (with those particular scriptures, just listed), they were to be awarded an elevated title indicating theistic achievement. Do not allow such a title to bewilder you—it was a form of encouragement.

[PADA: A person who has a potential tendency to fall down can not yet liberate himself, much less liberate others. He has not completed the process, so he cannot take others to the completed stage. A High School graduate cannot take another person to the PHD level.]

In that excerpt from 1967, he gives an example of what he wanted when he points out, as a model, the Ramakrishna Mission. It has kept, and still keeps, Ramakrishna at the center of its worship program, even though he has been deceased for a rather lengthy period of time.

[PADA: That is the ritvik system, there will be representatives and the acharya will be the main focus.]

If Prabhupāda’s disciples—one or some of them—became a regular guru, he (or they) would remain acting under his charge. The various centers would worship Śrila Prabhupāda, keeping him in the center. The regular guru would initiate followers who came to him, and he would be their dīkṣā-guru. They would become disciples of his disciple (re: May, 1977 room conversation in Vṛndāvan).

Simultaneously, the ISKCON Mission would keep Prabhupāda, the śaktyāveśa-avatār and Sampradāya-Ācārya, at the center of all congregational programs. Prabhupāda wanted this arrangement to be developed while he was still with us on the physical platform.

He indicated that he wanted other gurus in another place, in one of his earliest books, namely Easy Journey to Other Planets. This book was published in the Sixties. We find the following entry listed in Easy Journey to Other Planets as Point Thirteen of a twenty point series:

“He must not take on unlimited disciples. This means that a candidate who has successfully followed the first twelve items can also become a spiritual master himself, just as a student becomes a monitor in class with a limited number of disciples.”

[PADA: A class room monitor is not the PHD professor, and he should never sit in the professor's seat and use the professor's titles. A class room monitor is still a student. He may have a limited level of other students or his own subordinates of some type under his wing, but he can not claim to be a professor.]

The Ācārya (in the true sense of the term) takes on unlimited disciples, in the thousands. Prabhupāda did that, and he was fully qualified and able to do it. However, the monitor guru is not supposed to do that; he takes limited disciples.

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada said the Gaudiya Math had gurus with a dozen disciples, but that is what caused the schism in their mission. A bunch of people with a dozen disciples here and there is not the path he wanted us to follow.

A classroom monitor will also not be the proprietor of the disciples, they will always belong to Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON, and if the classroom monitor bloops -- the followers will stay in ISKCON. Will Kailash save ISKCON by finding one Madhyam who can have at most a dozen disciples? That is not going to fix the current mess.]

In Easy Journey, there are twelve stages that must first be secured and realized before the above-mentioned Thirteenth Stage is achieved. Those previous stages are not at all indicative of a devotee who is approaching the status of a mahā-bhāgavat at Stage Thirteen.

Indeed, the later Stages Fifteen and Sixteen of the series given in Easy Journey clearly prove this. They are as follows:

15. A regular and successful practice of the above fourteen items will enable the candidate to maintain mental equilibrium even amidst great trials of material loss and gain. 

16. In the next stage, the candidate does not become afflicted by lamentation and illusion.

First: Being eligible to become a guru—a guru like a monitor in class with limited disciples—that regular guru has not yet even become completely free from lamentation and illusion. Certainly, Stage Thirteen is not describing the attainment of the exalted uttama-adhikārī level of realization.

Aside from this, if a guru is a mahā-bhāgavat, he is not under any injunction (read, regulation) to only accept a limited numbers of disciples. Stage Thirteen requires that. Please note, as the aforementioned later Stage Fifteen attests, the term “regular practice” is used. How can that possibly refer to an uttama-adhikārī? It is referring to sādhana-bhakti, and it cannot even be referring to rāga-bhakti.

In sādhana-bhakti, the practitioner is under the injunctions of rules and regulations, because he is susceptible to fall down. Yet, he can become a dīkṣā-guru. This status also has sometimes been called a monitor guru, and it has, undeniably and definitively, been termed a regular guru in May of 1977 by His Divine Grace.

[PADA: This make no sense? A sadhaka bhakta can be worshiped as the sum total of the demigods, even though he is potentially -- or even prone to -- fall down? This was never implemented. How does the "regular" or classroom monitor guru function, this was never detailed either -- because Srila Prabhupada saw they were not ready for any more advanced level or position of authority.]

Some consider monitor guru by likening him to a professor who teaches a large class, giving full respect to Einstein as the superior source from whom he is teaching science. This is a faulty analogy, very prone to be misleading.

The much better analogy is that the uttama-adhikārī can be compared to the professor, who gives a lecture from the stage once per week to all the students in his course. He does so in a superior position, and the auditorium is usually full. After that, the students separately learn more.

They learn more by attending scheduled class with T.A.s or teaching assistants, advanced students of the professor from previous semesters. These classes have a limited number of students. The teaching assistant can be compared to the madhyam-adhikārī, as he is a monitor in the class representing the professor, who is superior to him in both knowledge and realization.

One final point about this sequence from Easy Journey: It lists twenty stages total. The attainment of monitor guru is Stage Thirteen. How can a lesser stage like that be the description of an uttama-adhikārī situated in bhāva or ecstasy?

Easy Journey is bona fide source proving that the status of a spiritual master in Kṛṣṇa consciousness—both dīkṣā and śikṣā—can be attained previous to the rare and advanced stage of a great Ācārya in the true sense of the term, the mahā-bhāgavat, the uttama-adhikārī, The Successor.

TATTVAMASI

As was verified at the beginning of this presentation, following the disappearance of The Ācārya, his dedicated disciple must receive the order to initiate disciples from Prabhupāda before that man is empowered to legitimately initiate. This was stated in May of 1977:

“When I order, ‘You become guru,’ he becomes regular guru. That's all.”

This conclusion should be crystal clear to anyone and everyone, i.e. all who are without prejudice or bias. There is also supplemental evidence to further establish this siddhānta. A challenge was issued thirty years ago in this connection, and we shall reproduce part of it subsequently.

One such evidence is directly from His Divine Grace in a conversation with an Indian man. This conversation is not available to access within the Folio, which is most unfortunate. His Divine Grace was in Nairobi, Kenya from October 28th through November 2nd of 1975. This exchange would have taken place on one of those dates.

Your author considers what is being reproduced here to be bona fide. The gist of this conversation was already known by me decades ago. It is from page fifteen of the booklet entitled “Śrila Prabhupāda, His Movement, and You,” published (second edition) in 1993 by Hansadutta. Your author attained a copy of this booklet in 1988 from Hansadutta himself:

Indian Man: When did you become the spiritual leader of Krishna consciousness?

Prabhupāda: When my guru-mahārāj ordered me. This is the guru-paramparā. Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he’s ordered by his guru. That’s all. Otherwise, nobody can become guru.

Indian Man: When did he tell you to . . .?

Prabhupāda (interrupts) : What is this business, “when did he tell me?” And why shall I disclose to you? It is so very insignificant thing that I have to explain to you?

Indian Man: No, I am just curious . . .

Prabhupāda (interrupts): You should be curious within your limit. You should know that one can become guru when he is ordered by his guru. This much.

There are a number of important points to be gleaned from this stark exchange. First, it is verification that none of Prabhupāda’s disciples can be authorized to become an initiating spiritual master unless so ordered, directly and specifically, by His Divine Grace, The Ācārya.

Secondly, such an order would not be generic or casual or run of the mill or easily attainable by anyone and everyone. Such an order, as stated in the exchange, is personal and specific. This is indicated when Prabhupāda, through a rhetorical question, chastises the impudent Hindu by saying “It is so very insignificant thing that I have to explain to you?”

[PADA: Correct. There has to be a specific order, for a specific person -- to be guru, and no one got such an order, or they would have shown us by now. Neither will one Madhyam with an order to take a dozen disciples solve the larger worldwide problem, even if such a person exists theoretically.]

The next point is (somewhat) indirect: Don’t go very speedily. That order is what the eleven pretenders defied in the Spring of 1978. They almost immediately jumped on the opportunity to divide the world. They were each worshiped as mahā-bhāgavats by not only their own disciples, but by many (if not most) of their godbrothers and godsisters. They did it, because they knew that they had the power to do it.

Prabhupāda, on the other hand, did not move at all quickly to initiate new people into a connection with the guru-paramparā. If you interpret the order to have come from his spiritual master, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvātī Gosvāmī, upon one of their precious few meetings on the physical platform, Prabhupāda did not carry it out until decades later.

You may consider that the order came to Prabhupāda when Siddhānta Sarasvātī ordered him, in a dream, to take sannyāsa in the late Forties. If so, he only initiated one disciple in 1951 in India and, after that, did not initiate other disciples until the middle of 1966 in New York City.

In other words, any way you cut it, he proceeded cautiously and deliberately. As such, we have the most important verification: In order to become an initiating spiritual master, a direct disciple of Prabhupāda (1966-1977) must receive the order. In that verification, we realize that no one should have jumped the gun to initiate disciples in 1978 . . . and then, out of envy, imitate Prabhupāda in the process.

[PADA: The window of anyone from 1966-1977 becoming a guru is rapidly closing, since very soon none of these people will be left alive on the planet. And that has also stunted the GBC's guru process, they are very reluctant to add "newer people" to their alleged guru parampara. 

That means their "living guru" system dies out on its own -- due to the time factor eventually eliminating all of their "living gurus." Our idea is superior, the guru continues to be Srila Prabhupada going forward indefinitely. And all of us act as his agents, proxies, preachers or ritviks. Rama Krishna mission has a similar idea, he is the central focus and all the members promote him.]

Concerning those who then did jump the gun: Where was that order? Where did any of the eleven receive that order? Where is there indisputable proof of it? Nowhere! And, even if you foolishly claim that they did receive it—such a claim being entirely speculative—did any of them act as regular gurus? Remember, that’s all he authorized.

[PADA: But even the GBC gurus are "regular gurus" in the sense that they take regulation and orders from the GBC, who can censure, suspend, chastise, and remove them. They are trying to be both absolute and relative at the same time, and it is not working.]  

GENERICALLY, that’s all he authorized, but you need more than that! No disciple of Prabhupāda received anything that can be interpreted as an order to be guru. The generic order needs to be followed up by specific recognition, and no disciple received such official recognition.

[PADA: That means Kailash's Madhyam guru will never appear. It is a non-starter from the get go. No one got the specific order to be a Madhyam guru, and no one ever will, and none of them will be here soon in any case. If anyone had got the order to be a Madhyam guru, they would have shown that order a long time ago.]

Three years after the zonal scam and unauthorized uttama worship had been implemented, this fact was even admitted by The Machiavellian Manipulator himself. In the first week of December, 1980, T.K.G. (with Hansadutta in attendance) stated this fact at The Pyramid House in Topanga Canyon:

“Actually, Prabhupāda never appointed any gurus. He did not appoint eleven gurus. He appointed eleven rittviks. He never appointed them as gurus. Myself and the other G.B.C. have done the greatest disservice to this movement for the last three years, because we interpreted the appointment of rittviks as the appointment of gurus. . . If it had been more than that, you can bet your bottom dollar that Prabhupāda would have spoken for days and hours and weeks on and about how to set up this thing with the gurus . . . but he did not, because he already said it a million times. He said, ‘My guru-mahārāj did not appoint anyone. It is by qualification.’. . . You cannot show me anything on tape or in writing where Prabhupāda says, ‘I appoint these eleven as gurus.’ It does not exist, because he never appointed any gurus. This is a myth.”

[PADA: Tamal said they were only appointed as ritviks.]

As mentioned previously, in 1993 a challenge was made to any devotee to show proof positive that Prabhupāda recognized or appointed or ordered any of his disciples to be initiating spiritual masters. The poster read as follows:

“$108,000.00 cash reward money for any ISKCON guru who can show . . . from Śrila Prabhupāda’s hand, naming any person or persons specifically appointed to the position of full guru-acharya, authorized to initiate disciples as his own after the disappearance of Śrila Prabhupāda. . . Produce the written document, signed by Śrila Prabhupāda, ordering any devotee to act as guru-acharya of ISKCON.”

That Prabhupāda wanted some of his disciples to become regular gurus while he was present and afterwards—and that none of them appeared to him to be ready by qualification—was summed up near the end of his time with us. 

[PADA: OK so none of them were qualified to be regular / monitor gurus either, hence none were named. Correct.]

The exact date and place that this summary statement was made is not specified in the Folio, but it was reproduced in the first “Back to Godhead” issue of 1978, entitled: “Śrila Prabhupāda Speaks Out: His Final Instructions.”

He was asked, in either a room conversation or an interview, who would succeed him as leader of his branch of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and he replied as follows:

"All of my disciples will take the legacy. If you want, you can also take it. Sacrifice everything. I—one—may soon pass away, but they are hundreds, and this movement will increase. It's not that I'll give an order: 'Here is the next leader.' Anyone who follows the previous leadership is a leader. . . If you want to follow, then you can also lead, but you don’t want to follow. 'Leader' means one who is a first-class disciple. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam. One who is perfectly following. . .To become a leader is not very difficult, provided one is prepared to follow the instructions of the bona fide guru.”

There are definitive conclusions to be gleaned from this powerful summary statement. First, Prabhupāda did not name his Successor. Virtually no one disputes that. Secondly, he is referring to a regular guru, because the repeated context is one who is following, which logically entails the following rules and regulations, or, if you will, instructions.

[PADA: But no "regular guru system" was detailed or established -- nor was anyone named to be in that position. Therefore everyone was expected to continue the existing system, shiksha gurus, agents, priests, proxies or ritviks.]

Following the instructions of The Ācārya means you are engaged in sādhana-bhakti. Following rules and regulations is not applicable to an uttama-adhikārī. Only a great devotee on that rare and extremely advanced platform could possibly become the next Ācārya, the next Successor.

Disciple means discipline. Uttamas are beyond such discipline. When Prabhupāda says “perfectly following” and “first-class disciple,” he is not referring to the perfection of the mahā-bhāgavata. He is also not referring to a first-class devotee, who is the uttama-adhikārī. Instead, he is referring to a first-class disciple—one who is perfectly following his instructions, a major difference.

Third, this conclusion is further validated when he says that it is not very difficult to perfectly follow. It is very difficult to become that rare, empowered uttama-adhikārī. From his perspective, it is not very difficult to become a madhyam-adhikārī, a regular guru. However, from the platform of a conditioned soul, such is not the case, as even attaining the status of regular guru requires great effort.

Transcending kaniṣṭha is not at all easy!

Fourth, he clearly states: “but you don’t want to follow.” Herein, he indicates that nobody was qualified to become a spiritual master from the stock of his disciples at the time he made this statement. He had (a bit earlier) verified the same fact in April, 1977 in Bombay when talking to T.K.G. Near the very end of his time with us, nobody was qualified to be recognized by him to be an initiating spiritual master.

With these realizations assimilated, you are now to consider something which requires more careful analysis. Nobody can, with sane mind and intelligence, deny that Prabhupāda only appointed rittviks in 1977.

[PADA: Yep no one can deny, he only appointed ritviks. Agreed.]

Yet there is another idea, a conversion theory, that is believed by some. It appears to have teeth superficially, but your author is never interested in such analyses. If you actually want to take advantage of this presentation, neither should you be interested in any such superficiality.

The theory is that Prabhupāda removed the rittvik status for his eleven men just before he departed and, indirectly, converted them into gurus. Taking place in his room at the Krishna-Balaram temple on October 18th, less than a month before he would depart, here is the conversation’s transcription which is used to push this idea:

Prabhupāda: So, I have deputed some of you to initiate.

Leading Secretary (1): Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, I think Jayapatākā can do that if he likes. I have already deputed. Tell him.

Leading Secretary (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So, deputies, Jayapatākā's name was there?

Leading Secretary (2): It is already on there, Śrīla Prabhupāda. His name was on that list.

Prabhupāda: So, I depute him to do this at Māyāpura, and you may go with him. I stop for the time being. Is that all right?

Leading Secretary (1): Stopped doing what, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: This initiation. I have deputed my disciples. Is it clear or not?

Bombay Temple President: It's clear.

Prabhupāda: You have got the list of the names?

Leading Secretary (1): Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: And if, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, I recover from this condition, then I shall begin again, or I may not be pressed in this condition to initiate. It is not good.

At the very least, a sincere (read, honest) follower or disciple of Prabhupāda readily admits that any interpretation of rittvik being dropped and converted into dīkṣā-guru in this exchange is far from solid . . . and very short of proof positive.

The conversation is undeniably equivocal. It does not clearly establish that he converted the rittviks into gurus at that time, although one theory postulates that. It can be misinterpreted like that, granted, but such an interpretation is not conclusive, and it is far, far from proved.

“The condition to initiate.” What does it mean? Does it mean accepting new disciples as of this date—that he no longer wished to accept them as his disciples? That is one interpretation, but that is not the only one.

If that interpretation was actually right, then he did convert the status of his rittviks to that of regular guru. However, if that was his intent, why did not he just come right out and say so and order it? It could have been stated unequivocally in one sentence, but nowhere in this transcript is it.

He says that he deputed his disciples. This, of course, is in reference to the July list of eleven deputies, rittviks. However, please note that the conversation began with the following statement: “So, I have deputed some of you to initiate.”

In the July document (sent to all the leaders of his movement), it was made clear that those deputies were conducting initiation ceremonies as rittviks on behalf of Prabhupāda. In October, Prabhupāda uses the phrase “to initiate,” in reference to the list of eleven from the previous July, substantiated by the first line of the conversation.

He was referring to rittviks! They remained nothing more than that. As such, in the context of how this conversation began, the phrase “to initiate” cannot mean to initiate new people for themselves, because the phrase is used to refer to eleven deputies, all of whom were still rittviks!

As such, when Prabhupāda says, “I may not be pressed in this condition to initiate,” logically, it must be referring to something else. What could be that something else? Could it not be that he is referring to conducting the initiation ceremony himself . . . or witnessing it? That is not at all illogical, although it is a bit awkward.

Do you take it to mean that Jaya Pataka was converted into a regular guru? There is no clear indication in the conversation. In point of fact, the Bombay President states that he clearly understood the meaning, and T.K.G., at the afore-mentioned Pyramid House talks in early December of 1980, revealed how he came to understand that October, 1977 conversation:

[PADA: They were only to act as ritviks, no other order was given, agreed.]

“Now I understand that what he did was very clear. He was physically incapable of performing the function of initiating. Therefore, he appointed officiating priests to initiate on his behalf. He appointed eleven, and he said very clearly, ‘Whoever is nearest, he can initiate.’ This is a very important point, because, when it comes to initiating, it is not whoever is nearest. It is wherever your heart goes—to whom you can repose you faith. But, when it is officiating, it’s ‘whoever is nearest,’ . . . ‘Whoever is nearest will check you out. Then, on my behalf, they will initiate . . .’”

We see in this statement from T.K.G. (and his analysis of that 1977 room conversation, which took place late in Prabhupāda’s lifetime) that T.K.G. did not interpret Prabhupāda as having then converted any rittvik from July to the much, much higher and more powerful status of dīkṣā-guru.

The conclusion is that there are arguments to be made from either angle of vision, but a man who was there, less than three years later, confirmed that Prabhupāda had no such intention to elevate anyone on the rittvik list to dīkṣā-guru. The reason TKG gives for his realization is quite cogent, and that should also be taken into account.

However, there is another consideration far more important than that one. We find the following statement in a purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam, 8.9.28:

“The demons or atheists have faith in their own endeavors, but, although they work very hard day and night, they cannot get any more than their destiny. The devotees, however, can surpass the reactions of karma and achieve wonderful results, even without effort. It is also said, phalena-paricīyate: One's success or defeat in any activity is understood by its result.”

If you conclude, wrongly, that Prabhupāda converted his eleven rittviks into dīkṣā-gurus in that equivocal room conversation with three of his leaders, what was the result of such a so-called conversion? Answer: The devastation of his branch of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness less than a half year later.

If you come to such a mal-interpretation (that the rittviks were converted into gurus), then Prabhupāda would be responsible for what he (through the back door, so to speak) allegedly ordered in the third week of October, 1977. However, he did not authorize such a conversion, and you cannot pin the zonal ācārya debacle on him.

Time changes things. When the movement is transformed, such an event always is based upon deviation through the agency of time. Prabhupāda’s leading secretaries deviated from his orders concerning guru, initiation, and how the movement was to be run after he departed. None of the eleven rittviks was appointed as an initiating spiritual master (or a regular guru or a monitor guru), what to speak of those eleven being appointed as Successors.

The colossal hoax known as the fabricated, so-called “ISKCON” confederation is a pseudo-spiritual scam. Prabhupāda’s actual movement achieved its authority and power from the guru-paramparā; it achieved its authority from guru, sādhu, and śāstra, with Prabhupāda as its great Founder and spiritual master.

On the other hand, its perverted reflection, “ISKCON,” received—and still receives--its power through bureaucratic manipulation, the deception that Prabhupāda actually appointed dīkṣā-gurus in advance (when he only appointed rittviks), and the failure of his Governing Body Commission to prevent the hijacking and degradation of his movement by eleven of the G.B.C.’s most narcissistic commissioners.

SAD EVA SAUMYA

[PADA: Yup, Srila Prabhupada only ordered ritviks, and nothing more. And even if he had wanted someone to be a monitor or regular diksha guru, that too would require a specific order to a named person, and an explanation of how that system would work in terms of accepting karma etc. -- and it was never detailed or ordered either. 

He did not see anyone as qualified, correct. It was never "the order." Nor would Srila Prabhupada have changed his original order than none of us should take karma without a lot of detailed explaining how we could do so. 

Ritvik was the order, still is the order, and nothing was ever added. And new people who are coming now are going to be the future ritviks and future disciples of Srila Prabhupada, that is the only system he made, and it is what should be done now and in future. 

In any event, Kailash's phantom Madhyam guru has never manifested. And since he needs the specific order to be named to take that post from Srila Prabhupada (according to Kailash) he never will manifest, because all of the details of how that system would work would also have to manifest, and it clearly this is not happening. It won't manifest because, it is not what he ordered. Kaliash agrees, the only verified order is for ritviks.

ys pd] 

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