Tuesday, May 31, 2016
Gargamuni Sauces Down GBC's Gurus
[PADA: Who is changing the books and who is authorizing these changes? OK the whole GBC has authorized these changes. Srila Prabhupada is acharya number 32 and some of these GBC are thinking they are 33? OK GBC has allowed fools to claim they are number 33. Nope! Nice points. ys pd]
Yogesvara's New Prabhupada Biography
https://iskconnews.org/new-prabhupada-biography-gets-new-york-launch,5594/
[PADA: This is good news and bad news. At least these guys are emphasizing Srila Prabhupada more and more, and we think that is good news. Overall ISKCON is having to emphasize him and his seat and remove their bogus gurus and their seats. Bravo.
Yet! Yogesvara says ISKCON is failing and is marginalized because it needs a paradigm shift to relate to the general population better, and we thus need to study their problems like Global Warming and ISIS to relate to them better. Ummm what? Devotees need to read the karmi newspapers and this will help them preach better? We already have that problem with the anti-Monsanto, anti-vax, anti-chemtrails, anti-Bill Clinton and Bill Gates crowd. They can barely make devotees or programs, and almost no one cares about their constant kerfluffle over these issues. They have marginalized themselves.
And worse, Yogesvara makes is appear that the GBC and their illicit sex acharyas program, and resultant banning, beating, molesting, murders and crimes -- going on under the name of Krishna -- is not what is marginalizing the society? An ex-kuli told PADA (paraphrasing to avoid the colorful language): Yogesvara is living in an ivory tower, he has never understood our problems that we have had, nor does he ever mention our problems effectively, nor did he help us when we needed it. He is a person who has marginalized the society because all of them marginalized us.
Yep, Yogesvara appears to be a supporter of the illicit sex acharyas program, at least he is not protesting that program in any meaningful way that we know of. Another problem is that while these guys never seem to understand the real problems, meanwhile they write and promote their own books, like Satsvarupa, Guru das, and others, and they seem to be more about self promotion by being some sort of associate of Prabhupada rather than solving things realistically.
Anyway, the solution is to emphasize Srila Prabhupada more and get rid of the goonda bully commision program that is forcing people to worship fools as their messiahs, that will not attract people to Krishna -- and its not. That is the real issue and Yogesvara ilk will maybe some day figure that out. ys pd]
[PADA: This is good news and bad news. At least these guys are emphasizing Srila Prabhupada more and more, and we think that is good news. Overall ISKCON is having to emphasize him and his seat and remove their bogus gurus and their seats. Bravo.
Yet! Yogesvara says ISKCON is failing and is marginalized because it needs a paradigm shift to relate to the general population better, and we thus need to study their problems like Global Warming and ISIS to relate to them better. Ummm what? Devotees need to read the karmi newspapers and this will help them preach better? We already have that problem with the anti-Monsanto, anti-vax, anti-chemtrails, anti-Bill Clinton and Bill Gates crowd. They can barely make devotees or programs, and almost no one cares about their constant kerfluffle over these issues. They have marginalized themselves.
And worse, Yogesvara makes is appear that the GBC and their illicit sex acharyas program, and resultant banning, beating, molesting, murders and crimes -- going on under the name of Krishna -- is not what is marginalizing the society? An ex-kuli told PADA (paraphrasing to avoid the colorful language): Yogesvara is living in an ivory tower, he has never understood our problems that we have had, nor does he ever mention our problems effectively, nor did he help us when we needed it. He is a person who has marginalized the society because all of them marginalized us.
Yep, Yogesvara appears to be a supporter of the illicit sex acharyas program, at least he is not protesting that program in any meaningful way that we know of. Another problem is that while these guys never seem to understand the real problems, meanwhile they write and promote their own books, like Satsvarupa, Guru das, and others, and they seem to be more about self promotion by being some sort of associate of Prabhupada rather than solving things realistically.
Anyway, the solution is to emphasize Srila Prabhupada more and get rid of the goonda bully commision program that is forcing people to worship fools as their messiahs, that will not attract people to Krishna -- and its not. That is the real issue and Yogesvara ilk will maybe some day figure that out. ys pd]
Monday, May 30, 2016
GBC Resolutions 2016
Krishna No Longer Dictates to the Acharyas?
http://pratyatosa.com/GBCRES/GBCRES2016.htm
[PADA: Hrdayananda vows to no longer going to criticize the GBC body. The acharya cannot criticize the GBC? This is getting more ritvik-diculous. The fact that the GBC has to censure Hrdayananda at all means he is de facto a ritvik, and not an acharya. OK he is ritvik at best. Acharyas are never censured by the Church management, the priests are.
And we cannot read or distribute Bhakti Vikas swami books, oh great, we cannot read the books of the acharyas? I think this means the main body of GBC wants to vote in women as their new wave of acharyas? We cannot read the books of their own acharyas?
This is more meltdown mode every day.
This is pretty amazing. Krishna dictates to the acharyas, but the GBC says Krishna is doing a rotten job, so they have to kick Krishna off the "acharya management and dictation" post and make themselves the dictation to the acharyas. We need to remove Krishna, umm and take over His post, that is how we fell here in the first place.
ys pd]
A Book Distribution Story (Radharani Devi Dasi)
The Mercy of Lord Gauranga just in time
by Radharani Devi Dasi
This incident happened some years ago: I was distributing in Nevada USA. We stopped at a gas station to get some gas and water. When I got out of the van I saw one man that looked like he would be receptive to the mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So I approached him and explained the book to him, sure enough he was interested, gave a donation and took a book.
Then I went into the store, while I was in the store I heard shooting and then cars screaching out of the parking lot. After I heard that the shooting was over I went outside with some other people from the store. The man that got the book was laying dead on the seat of his car, his hand clutching onto the book.
Myself and another devotee were shocked about what had just happened, but then we thought, "this person received the mercy just in time". Another minute or two and he wouldn't have been so fortunate. Prabhupada said, "If they just touch the book so much benefit will be there". What to speak if they touch it, appreciate it, and give a donation for it.
Transcendental book distribution ki Jaya!!
[PADA: Yep, I really miss hearing these amazing stories. We used to hear these things all the time when the books were being distributed by the millions, so its real mercy if someone can get their hands on one of these books these days. Then again, we have the problem that the GBC folks not only halted the distribution of books on a massive level, they changed the books themselves. ys pd]
by Radharani Devi Dasi
This incident happened some years ago: I was distributing in Nevada USA. We stopped at a gas station to get some gas and water. When I got out of the van I saw one man that looked like he would be receptive to the mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So I approached him and explained the book to him, sure enough he was interested, gave a donation and took a book.
Then I went into the store, while I was in the store I heard shooting and then cars screaching out of the parking lot. After I heard that the shooting was over I went outside with some other people from the store. The man that got the book was laying dead on the seat of his car, his hand clutching onto the book.
Myself and another devotee were shocked about what had just happened, but then we thought, "this person received the mercy just in time". Another minute or two and he wouldn't have been so fortunate. Prabhupada said, "If they just touch the book so much benefit will be there". What to speak if they touch it, appreciate it, and give a donation for it.
Transcendental book distribution ki Jaya!!
[PADA: Yep, I really miss hearing these amazing stories. We used to hear these things all the time when the books were being distributed by the millions, so its real mercy if someone can get their hands on one of these books these days. Then again, we have the problem that the GBC folks not only halted the distribution of books on a massive level, they changed the books themselves. ys pd]
Sunday, May 29, 2016
GBC Gurus and Tantric Devil Worship? (Bhakta Amira)
All Glories to Beelzebub!
All glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga
Please accept my humble most obeisance at the lotus feet of the Vaishnava devotees of the Lord.
I have a reason to write and a reason to write incognito so please do not become disturbed because my real name does not come out here. I am not an old devotee I am a young devotee who has yet to take any type of diksha initiation and have been taking shelter of Prabhupada’s books, tapes and music and I am very satisfied. There is reason enough why I do not take diksha initiation from ISKCON guru. I am alone with my wife and child.
I am not a ritvik devotee because I see there too many problems in different camps.
[PADA: Right, this is one of the reasons we hope that people like Prahlad and HKC Jaipur folks begin to realize that their idea of starting giant cat fights among the so-called ritviks and Krishna devotees in public is not helping people surrender to Krishna and Prabhupada. As we see here, its turning people off, and we have had the same complaint from dozens of other people, if not more. These guys say they are the only ones preaching and no one else is, so its creating the same Gaudiya Matha "many different camps" mentality that disintegrated their mission.
So fine, they are preaching, but preaching what? That they are the only bona fide devotees and everyone else is bogus, which means, they are trying to make schisms, friction and fractures within the so-called ritviks, and then that means -- people like Amira do not want to participate. AT ALL!
Who wants to join people who are infighting all the time? Anyway, we are working on creating an alliance, and we are getting more and more good people on board, so its forming up gradually. And we hope to make a more unified presentation in the future. One devotee wrote to tell me, you guys are the circular firing squad, hee hee! So we need to work on solving that perception if we are going to make progress, or we will be rejected just like the GBC is being rejected.]
I do have special ability to research on internet and special ability to see things that maybe other devotees cannot see. I do not look for these things but they come to me. I have understood that the guru system of ISKCON is wrong. This I have never had problem with because if you are student of history you can see when you trace back history to see what happened and not simple acceptance of what is written or talked about today. If you study history the first gurus were illegal appointment by themselves. Second and third appointment based on first appointment idea or concoction is also illegal. So I do not do anything illegal.
[PADA: Well good, that is what we said in 1978, there was no appointment of gurus. Almost everyone thought we were crazy and offensive at the time, now the people who think there was a guru appointment are considered as the crazy ones. People might complain about our process and methods, but our process works, we got most people to agree on this issue.]
We have one son. He is a good boy of 4 years old. From my research into the Gurukula system of ISKCON I will not ever send our son there. First thing they do not follow Prabhupada in teaching and they use government system and we have taken to Krishna consciousness because we have given away the karmi system. Second as history student I see there has been too much abuse of the children in the ISKCON gurukula and the administration has turned a blind eye and there has been too much cheating and deceiving by them. So I am sorry I cannot trust the ISKCON and our child will not step his feet in any school we will train him at home.
[PADA: This has been perhaps the main cause celebre of PADA, the children issue, and again, nowadays just about everyone agrees with PADA on this issue, and thank God for that! Amira will take better care of his kid than anyone else can, and we fully applaud this idea.]
Changes have been made to Srila Prabhupada books which I feel in my heart is very bad so I have taken great trouble in finding some of the unedited books of Prabhupada which I believe is my right to do and my right to train our son in this way.
[PADA: Yep, our next cause celebre has been the changed books of the Satan-fraud acharyas, and now almost everyone is on board with us on this issue.]
Then I began to find out things that are very very bad about ISKCON and now make me frightened to see any devotee. I heard one talk by a Mata ji in Sridam Mayapura some years back she spoke of child abuse and Devil worship. Her name is Jvala Mukti devi dasi mataji and after listening to her something inside me pushed me to find out more and so I pray to Prabhupada and to Krishna inside my heart and I saw something very bad.
First, I understood that this mataji spoke truth. Then I saw inside my heart that some big diksha gurus and other leaders are doing this (devil) worship. I saw faces of these people who I cannot now say are devotee of Krishna. They dress and act and talk like devotee but they worship another God and they desire to destroy ISKCON from inside just like I heard that Prabhupada has said.
When I was little child I have experience of this kind of worship in my country. This is very bad and very great dangers but you can get power when you do this. Not good power but bad power. I went to my father home and spoke with my mother who is like you can say Clarevoyent, much more than me because I am devotee and have no need to develop this in me. My mother said that what I see is true. She say Prabhupada is very good man but many of his students are bad and lie. She said they are like Christian say Judas and they betray Prabhupada.
[PADA: OK that is our next cause celebre, we said Prabhupada was poisoned by some of his Judas leaders, and more people agree with this as well. Seems like we are on a roll here?]
I understand now very nicely why some guru devotees have much power and disciples. My mother also said that soon these devils will be having light shine on them and devotees will take sides and there will be a big problem in ISKCON. She said to me that I must warn devotees about this. So this is why I am writing.
You must understand that this is very old middle eastern worship and very many people think that these devils are God and but this God he is cheating them but their families have come from long line of worship this God and they have gotten strong faith and strong power from the worship.
My real name is not here because they must not know my name for power to do harm is when they know my name. You must already be knowing that demons or asuras are wanting this ISKCON destroyed and so they are here doing that and most of you have been cheated by them and think they are pure devotee with good heart and merciful but they are not.
You can call me crazy or what you like. I have seen their faces but they have not seen mine. I have seen what they have done to children, same as they have always done to children. You will not believe at first time but soon you will have big doubt. There are many very good hearted devotees that have come to this ISKCON but these demons have cheated them like milk that a serpent has tasted they poison their hearts.
Crazy or not but this has happened already and if you believe or not does not matter because they are working very hard to destroy ISKCON and to destroy you. As Prabhupada has said from within they can destroy from within and this is how they are destroying from within.
They use the power of the devil whose name I cannot speak as is my family history but my family do not accept anymore this God. They do not accept any God but I do because my uncle he had very old copy of Bhagavad Gita and Isopanisad in Arabic from when he was boy and I first read Isopanisad and my mind was very much attracted and then after reading Bhagavad Gita I was fully convinced that I wanted to change my mind from my family mind. They are not angry with me but help me a lot.
Please I mean no offence to any good devotee and please forgive my English. Although I study in school and college English my writing is very bad.
Please be a student of history and see how much of ISKCON has been changed and then think how is it possible to have the power to do this. First power is given by the devil second power is given when you refuse to see the truth and you support the evil men and women. Only accept power from Prabhupada from his books and by his worship and then you can get Krishna.
Yours faithfully
Bhakta Amira
[PADA: Are the GBC using devil worship or tantric black magic? We have had a number of different reports on this, for example a "psychic" devotee told me he saw a horrible demon gargoyle on Tamal's shoulder, and Tamal was moving as the gargoyle moved, so he was being controlled by a demon entity. I personally felt that Jayatirtha was covered with a big black ball of the sins of his followers, because passing by him knocked my breath out. So these accumulated sins are making them go more and more mad.
Then again when Jayadvaita says that gurus are engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children, or he asks why in the hell are people chanting "Jaya Prabhupada," little hints of their real personalities come out.
A psychic reportedly told Satsvarupa he is also covered with a giant black ball of bad energy, just like Jayatirtha was. Satsvarupa's Lilamrta paints pure devotees as mundane men etc. Suhotra was allegedly a family member of the author of Satan's Bible. And I caught Hansadutta reading some totally bogus books about ghosts and spirits, and one of his books said Jesus is the king of the ghosts.
A psychic reportedly told Satsvarupa he is also covered with a giant black ball of bad energy, just like Jayatirtha was. Satsvarupa's Lilamrta paints pure devotees as mundane men etc. Suhotra was allegedly a family member of the author of Satan's Bible. And I caught Hansadutta reading some totally bogus books about ghosts and spirits, and one of his books said Jesus is the king of the ghosts.
Now at least a few ex-kulis think there are some actual Satanic ritual child killing sacrifices going on, who knows for sure. Its already not a good situation when some people feel that is their process. Of course we all know they already "sacrificed" many children to suffer other terrible abuses. One child told me he wished that he had been killed and sacrificed because that would have ended the pain.
We have heard these and many similar stories over the years. Of course "you become what you worship," so when the GBC makes little children worship their illicit sex and drugs deviants, what does that do? It corrupts these children, and that is their apparent purpose. OK! Its totally Satanic to make children worship illicit sex deviants. Anyway we could go on and on here, but you get the point.
A Bengali friend of PADA said there he was in Mayapura and there was a rumor that some GBC folks had hired a black magic tantric to have my head destroyed around the mid-1980s.
Then he said that what happened instead was -- the curse could not overtake me for some reason, so it reversed back to the GBC; and so Satsvarupa had headaches; Kirtanananda was whacked in the head with an iron pipe; Jayatirtha's head was chopped off; someone cut Jayapataka's neck badly -- and his head currently looks like a dried raisin -- and he can barely talk; and other GBC just went mad in the head because their heads quit working.
And then one of our critics named Sanat hit himself in the face with his post hole digger, which crushed his whole head in. And he almost died and had to get his head wired back together. So the Bengali friend said that if the curse cannot take down the victim, it comes back to the senders and their defender friends like Sanat, at least that was his take on all this.
And this Bengali man also said he is sure that Jvalamukhi is right, there are some black magic tantric or Satanic programs going on with these guys. I would not doubt that in any case. Anyone who would poison a pure devotee and then create a mass child abuse program, and orchestrate killing dissenters, is not a devotee of Krishna. He is a devotee of Beelzebub. Anyway good luck Amira, you got it figured out pretty much. ys pd]
PADA: @ angel108b@yahoo.com
We have heard these and many similar stories over the years. Of course "you become what you worship," so when the GBC makes little children worship their illicit sex and drugs deviants, what does that do? It corrupts these children, and that is their apparent purpose. OK! Its totally Satanic to make children worship illicit sex deviants. Anyway we could go on and on here, but you get the point.
A Bengali friend of PADA said there he was in Mayapura and there was a rumor that some GBC folks had hired a black magic tantric to have my head destroyed around the mid-1980s.
Then he said that what happened instead was -- the curse could not overtake me for some reason, so it reversed back to the GBC; and so Satsvarupa had headaches; Kirtanananda was whacked in the head with an iron pipe; Jayatirtha's head was chopped off; someone cut Jayapataka's neck badly -- and his head currently looks like a dried raisin -- and he can barely talk; and other GBC just went mad in the head because their heads quit working.
And then one of our critics named Sanat hit himself in the face with his post hole digger, which crushed his whole head in. And he almost died and had to get his head wired back together. So the Bengali friend said that if the curse cannot take down the victim, it comes back to the senders and their defender friends like Sanat, at least that was his take on all this.
And this Bengali man also said he is sure that Jvalamukhi is right, there are some black magic tantric or Satanic programs going on with these guys. I would not doubt that in any case. Anyone who would poison a pure devotee and then create a mass child abuse program, and orchestrate killing dissenters, is not a devotee of Krishna. He is a devotee of Beelzebub. Anyway good luck Amira, you got it figured out pretty much. ys pd]
PADA: @ angel108b@yahoo.com
Saturday, May 28, 2016
Sacinandan Swami Issue (Hanuman Das)
[PADA: Sacinandana swami was apparently recently "denied a visa to enter the USA." Or what? Hee hee, this letter below is sort of what happened to Tripurari swami, the local Anderson Valley newspapers followed him around and spotted him driving around with his "female secretary." Anyway, Sacinandana's alleged gal pal problem seems to persist:]
From: Hrvoje Marjanovic <hrvoje.marjanovic@gmail.com>
To: sesa.gbc@HIDDEN.com
Cc: "Badrinarayan Swami (San Diego - US)" <Badrinarayan.Swami@pamho.net>,
Bhakti Raghava Swami <Bhakti.Raghava.Swami@pamho.net>,
Bhakti-bhusana Swami <Bhakti-bhusana.Swami@pamho.net>,
Gopal Krsna Goswami <Gopal.Krsna.Goswami@pamho.net>,
Jayadvaita Swami <Jayadvaita.Swami@pamho.net>,
Kadamba Kanana Swami <Kadamba.Kanana.Swami@pamho.net>,
"Kavicandra Swami (GBC Japan)" <Kavicandra.Swami@pamho.net>, Lokanath Swami <Lokanath.Swami@pamho.net>,
Sacinandana Swami <Sacinandana.Swami@pamho.net>,
"Virabahu (das) ACBSP (GBC)" <Virabahu.ACBSP@pamho.net>, basughoshdas@gmail.com, sun@harekrsna.com,
"prahladananda.swami@pamho.net" <prahladananda.swami@pamho.net>
Dear Sesa prabhu,
please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
As a CEO of ISKCON, I know you are busy man, so I'll be short and concise.
We have a sannyasi in ISKCON who is living with his girlfriend for the last 5 years. I wrote him many letters and asked him to confirm or deny this fact.
Dear Sesa prabhu,
please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
As a CEO of ISKCON, I know you are busy man, so I'll be short and concise.
We have a sannyasi in ISKCON who is living with his girlfriend for the last 5 years. I wrote him many letters and asked him to confirm or deny this fact.
He never replied.
I also wrote to Prahladananda Swami, sannyas minister, and he didn't promise me quick investigation, he didn't promise me any investigation. He is giving me trouble with "quality" of my evidence.
Full history of this incident can be found here:
http://lastingimpression.info/ramesh_sacinandana/
Sacinandanda Swami is living on a private estate south west of Berlin, on a lake, his residence is called Gaurabhavan. His female unmarried disciple Bhanu Nandini is living there with him. Here is a photo of the Bhanu Nandini's profile (also attached to this email). This picture was taken from website http://www.snsdisciples.info/
Bhanu Nandini Dasi
Note the "Presently living in" section. So, now, since I can't get this resolved within ISKCON, I will ask help of outside entities, such as investigative journalists, private investigators and others. And you are currently only man in ISKCON who can prevent me from going outside and making maha ugra scandal of this issue.
Note the "Presently living in" section. So, now, since I can't get this resolved within ISKCON, I will ask help of outside entities, such as investigative journalists, private investigators and others. And you are currently only man in ISKCON who can prevent me from going outside and making maha ugra scandal of this issue.
Not only Sacinandanda Swami will be implicated, but all others who ignored me and failed to execute impartial investigation.
Srila Prabhupada said if we follow his instructions, we can turn this world into Vaikuntha. And look what have we turned into? Society where sannyasis with girlfriends are not only tolerated, by glorified as pure devotees.
Now, can you promise me a quick and impartial investigation?
Simple yes or no please. If I get a simple yes, I want ETA.
Also, Prabhupada's quote for inspiration, sent to me recently by Saraba prabhu:
"And this kind of hypocrisy—they have taken sannyasa and mixing with woman. This is not to be allowed. If you want woman you get yourself married, live respectfully.
We have no objection. But this hypocrisy should be stopped. There have been so many fallen down. First of all there will be no sannyasi anymore. I have got very bad experience. And at least, we are not going to create new sannyasis. And those who have fallen down, let them marry, live like respectable gentlemen. I have no objection. After all, young man, fallen down—that's all right. It is by nature's way. But marry that girl. That I am insisting from the very beginning, that no friendly liaison." Jan 7,1977,Mumbai.
So, if you and/or Prahladananda Swami think that my evidence is not "good enough", I will give this evidence to investigative journalists in Berlin so that they can play with it. Think twice before you make me do that.
Still hoping that we have some sanity left, your servant, Hanuman das
So, if you and/or Prahladananda Swami think that my evidence is not "good enough", I will give this evidence to investigative journalists in Berlin so that they can play with it. Think twice before you make me do that.
Still hoping that we have some sanity left, your servant, Hanuman das
Andhra Pradesh Minister Organizes Krishna Festival
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada is gradually emerging as Krishna's acharya, goody! If any Prabhupadanugas can attend, that would be nice. ys pd]
Friday, May 27, 2016
Cause of Dissension Among Devotees (Vidura Mahatma das)
And! The number of PADA readers is steadily on the increase as well, as is the development of newly affiliated web sites, and of course we are seeing more home programs, some rural projects, some new temples in India, as well as the building of the new temple here in Sunnyvale etc.
More people are sending us info to publish and we are getting more nice inquiries on these topics from all over the world. Some ex-kulis that we had only heard about previously are now in direct contact with us, so we are seeing some headway with this sector too.
We'd like to thank all of the people who helped us in the past and those who are recently coming forward to assist these efforts. Some big things might be moving ahead for us soon, at least that is what we anticipate, in any case -- Krishna is helping us along the way here. ys pd]
From: Vidura Mahatma Das
From: Vidura Mahatma Das
To: Subject: The Cause of Confusion and Dissension in the Krishna Consciousness Movement
1. Not following Srila Prabhupada's orders/discipline
1. Not following Srila Prabhupada's orders/discipline
"When disciples do not stick to the principle of accepting the order of their spiritual master, immediately there are two opinions. Any opinion different from the opinion of the spiritual master is useless. One cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is deviation. There is no scope for adjusting spiritual advancement to material ideas." (Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 12.9 purport)
"The Māyāvādī philosophers, they want to become one. "One" means you agree to the Supreme. That is oneness. Just like we are conducting this international society. We have got many workers, many disciples, but we are one. "One" means they are carrying their spiritual master's order. Therefore they are one." (Lecture on SB 3.26.25 -- Bombay, January 2, 1975)
"Unless one is firmly fixed in the regulative principles, one may perform mischievous acts, even if one is a member of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We therefore advise our disciples to strictly follow the regulative principles; otherwise the most important movement for the upliftment of humanity will be hampered due to dissension among its members. Those who are serious about pushing forward this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should remember this and strictly follow the regulative principles so that their minds will not be disturbed." (SB 5.14.35 : PURPORT)
"Śrī Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī, at the time of his passing away, ordered all his disciples to work conjointly to preach the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu all over the world. Later, however, some self-interested, foolish disciples disobeyed his orders. Each one of them wanted to become head of the mission, and they fought in the courts, neglecting the order of the spiritual master, and the entire mission was defeated." (CC Adi 7.95-96, Purport)
"Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, at the time of his departure, requested all his disciples to form a governing body and conduct missionary activities cooperatively. He did not instruct a particular man to become the next ācārya. But just after his passing away, his leading secretaries made plans, without authority, to occupy the post of ācārya, and they split into two factions over who the next ācārya would be. Consequently, both factions were asāra, or useless, because they had no authority, having disobeyed the order of the spiritual master. Despite the spiritual master's order to form a governing body and execute the missionary activities of the Gauḍīya Maṭha, the two unauthorized factions began litigation that is still going on after forty years with no decision." (CC Adi 12.8, Purport)
CC Adi 12.10, Translation and Purport: The order of the spiritual master is the active principle in spiritual life. Anyone who disobeys the order of the spiritual master immediately becomes useless.
Here is the opinion of Śrīla Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī. Persons who strictly follow the orders of the spiritual master are useful in executing the will of the Supreme, whereas persons who deviate from the strict order of the spiritual master are useless.
"We have got practical experience how a great institution was lost by whimsical ways. Without carrying out the order of the spiritual master, they manufactured something and the whole thing was lost." (Lecture on SB 1.2.11 -- Vrndavana, October 22, 1972)
"The central point is the order of the Spiritual Master, and I am very glad that you are trying to give importance to this aspect of management. The difficulty is sometimes things are interpreted in a manner dovetailing one's own sense gratification. I have got this personal experience in my Guru Maharaja's institution. Different Godbrothers took the words of Guru Maharaja in different interpretations for sense gratification and the whole mission disrupted. This is still going on for the last 40 years without any proper settlement." (Letter to disciple -- Tittenhurst 18 October, 1969)
"There may be different orders for different disciples, but a disciple should take the order of the spiritual master as his life: "Here it is, the order. So let me execute it without any deviation." That will make him perfect. Just see, the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, this is His instruction. He says, ei ājñā pāñā nāma la-i anukṣaṇa. He did not think, "Oh, My spiritual master thought Me a fool, rascal (CC Adi 7.71). Oh, why I am rascal? Let Me see Vedānta-sūtra. Why shall I not see?" Oh, that is rascaldom again. That is rascaldom again. You cannot deviate the order of the spiritual master by an inch if you really want success." (Lecture on CC Adi-lila 7.76-81 -- San Francisco, February 2, 1967)
2. Not reading Srila Prabhupada's books / Hearing from Srila Prabhupada
“All the devotees connected with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must read all the books that have been translated (Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā and others); otherwise, after some time, they will simply eat, sleep and fall down from their position. Thus they will miss the opportunity to attain an eternal, blissful life of transcendental pleasure.”
(Chaitanya-caritamrta Madhya-lila 25.278 (Original, Unrevised) : Purport by Srila Prabhupada)
"I think that the best thing for you is to study our books very carefully and then try to write something. Do not try to concoct your own theories. This is not the process. You must write just as you have heard from your Guru and nothing else. Otherwise, your writing is useless." (Letter to: Bhakta Dennis -- Mayapur 8 April, 1975)
"First thing is that one must understand Srimad-Bhagavatam fully. The first verse, if you simply explain, will take volumes and volumes. So, please study my books intensely and do not fail to chant 16 rounds daily following the four regulative principles strictly. This will make everything perfect." (Letter to: Aticandra -- Bombay 4 January, 1975)
"The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual master's instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple." (Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 1.35 Purport)
“If one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master. However, unless one follows the spiritual master’s instructions and the regulative principles governing chanting and hearing the holy name of the Lord, one cannot become a pure devotee. By one’s mental concoctions, one falls down. By associating with nondevotees, one breaks the regulative principles and is thereby lost.” (Cc Madhya-lila 19.157)
3. On the whole: Not serious about Krishna Consciousness
TEXT 41
vyavasāyātmikā buddhir
ekeha kuru-nandana
bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca
buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām
SYNONYMS
vyavasāyātmikā—resolute Kṛṣṇa consciousness; buddhiḥ—intelligence; ekā—only one; iha—in this world; kuru-nandana—O beloved child of the Kurus; bahu-śākhāḥ—various branches; hi—indeed; anantāḥ—unlimited; ca—also; buddhayaḥ—intelligence; avyavasāyinām—of those who are not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
TRANSLATION
Those who are on this path are resolute in purpose, and their aim is one. O beloved child of the Kurus, the intelligence of those who are irresolute is many-branched.
PURPORT
A strong faith in Kṛṣṇa consciousness that one should be elevated to the highest perfection of life is called vyavasāyātmikā intelligence. The Caitanya-caritāmṛta states:
'śraddhā'-śabde viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya
kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya
Faith means unflinching trust in something sublime. When one is engaged in the duties of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he need not act in relationship to the material world with obligations to family traditions, humanity, or nationality. Fruitive activities are the engagements of one's reactions from past good or bad deeds. When one is awake in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he need no longer endeavor for good results in his activities. When one is situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all activities are on the absolute plane, for they are no longer subject to dualities like good and bad. The highest perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is renunciation of the material conception of life. This state is automatically achieved by progressive Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The resolute purpose of a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is based on knowledge ("Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ") by which one comes to know perfectly that Vāsudeva, or Kṛṣṇa, is the root of all manifested causes. As water on the root of a tree is automatically distributed to the leaves and branches, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can render the highest service to everyone—namely self, family, society, country, humanity, etc. If Kṛṣṇa is satisfied by one's actions, then everyone will be satisfied.
Service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is, however, best practiced under the able guidance of a spiritual master who is a bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, who knows the nature of the student and who can guide him to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As such, to be well-versed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness one has to act firmly and obey the representative of Kṛṣṇa, and one should accept the instruction of the bona fide spiritual master as one's mission in life. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākur instructs us, in his famous prayers for the spiritual master, as follows:
yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo
yasyāprasādānna gatiḥ kuto 'pi
dhyāyaṁ stuvaṁs tasya yaśas tri-sandhyaṁ
vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam.
"By satisfaction of the spiritual master, the Supreme Personality of Godhead becomes satisfied. And by not satisfying the spiritual master, there is no chance of being promoted to the plane of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I should, therefore, meditate and pray for his mercy three times a day, and offer my respectful obeisances unto him, my spiritual master."
The whole process, however, depends on perfect knowledge of the soul beyond the conception of the body—not theoretically but practically, when there is no longer chance for sense gratification manifested in fruitive activities. One who is not firmly fixed in mind is diverted by various types of fruitive acts.
Bhagavad-gita As It Is 2.41
“After receiving the spiritual master’s mercy, one must repeat his instructions, and this is called śravaṇa-kīrtana-hearing and chanting. One who has not properly heard from the spiritual master or who does not follow the regulative principles is not fit for chanting (kīrtana). This is explained in Bhagavad-gītā (2.41): vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana. One who has not listened carefully to the instructions of the spiritual master is unfit to chant or preach the cult of devotional service. One has to water the bhakti-latā-bīja after receiving instructions from the spiritual master.” (CC Madhya 19.152)
The quotes used in this compilation have been taken from Srila Prabhupada's original, unrevised books and teachings.
"The Māyāvādī philosophers, they want to become one. "One" means you agree to the Supreme. That is oneness. Just like we are conducting this international society. We have got many workers, many disciples, but we are one. "One" means they are carrying their spiritual master's order. Therefore they are one." (Lecture on SB 3.26.25 -- Bombay, January 2, 1975)
"Unless one is firmly fixed in the regulative principles, one may perform mischievous acts, even if one is a member of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We therefore advise our disciples to strictly follow the regulative principles; otherwise the most important movement for the upliftment of humanity will be hampered due to dissension among its members. Those who are serious about pushing forward this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should remember this and strictly follow the regulative principles so that their minds will not be disturbed." (SB 5.14.35 : PURPORT)
"Śrī Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī, at the time of his passing away, ordered all his disciples to work conjointly to preach the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu all over the world. Later, however, some self-interested, foolish disciples disobeyed his orders. Each one of them wanted to become head of the mission, and they fought in the courts, neglecting the order of the spiritual master, and the entire mission was defeated." (CC Adi 7.95-96, Purport)
"Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, at the time of his departure, requested all his disciples to form a governing body and conduct missionary activities cooperatively. He did not instruct a particular man to become the next ācārya. But just after his passing away, his leading secretaries made plans, without authority, to occupy the post of ācārya, and they split into two factions over who the next ācārya would be. Consequently, both factions were asāra, or useless, because they had no authority, having disobeyed the order of the spiritual master. Despite the spiritual master's order to form a governing body and execute the missionary activities of the Gauḍīya Maṭha, the two unauthorized factions began litigation that is still going on after forty years with no decision." (CC Adi 12.8, Purport)
CC Adi 12.10, Translation and Purport: The order of the spiritual master is the active principle in spiritual life. Anyone who disobeys the order of the spiritual master immediately becomes useless.
Here is the opinion of Śrīla Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī. Persons who strictly follow the orders of the spiritual master are useful in executing the will of the Supreme, whereas persons who deviate from the strict order of the spiritual master are useless.
"We have got practical experience how a great institution was lost by whimsical ways. Without carrying out the order of the spiritual master, they manufactured something and the whole thing was lost." (Lecture on SB 1.2.11 -- Vrndavana, October 22, 1972)
"The central point is the order of the Spiritual Master, and I am very glad that you are trying to give importance to this aspect of management. The difficulty is sometimes things are interpreted in a manner dovetailing one's own sense gratification. I have got this personal experience in my Guru Maharaja's institution. Different Godbrothers took the words of Guru Maharaja in different interpretations for sense gratification and the whole mission disrupted. This is still going on for the last 40 years without any proper settlement." (Letter to disciple -- Tittenhurst 18 October, 1969)
"There may be different orders for different disciples, but a disciple should take the order of the spiritual master as his life: "Here it is, the order. So let me execute it without any deviation." That will make him perfect. Just see, the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, this is His instruction. He says, ei ājñā pāñā nāma la-i anukṣaṇa. He did not think, "Oh, My spiritual master thought Me a fool, rascal (CC Adi 7.71). Oh, why I am rascal? Let Me see Vedānta-sūtra. Why shall I not see?" Oh, that is rascaldom again. That is rascaldom again. You cannot deviate the order of the spiritual master by an inch if you really want success." (Lecture on CC Adi-lila 7.76-81 -- San Francisco, February 2, 1967)
2. Not reading Srila Prabhupada's books / Hearing from Srila Prabhupada
“All the devotees connected with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must read all the books that have been translated (Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā and others); otherwise, after some time, they will simply eat, sleep and fall down from their position. Thus they will miss the opportunity to attain an eternal, blissful life of transcendental pleasure.”
(Chaitanya-caritamrta Madhya-lila 25.278 (Original, Unrevised) : Purport by Srila Prabhupada)
"I think that the best thing for you is to study our books very carefully and then try to write something. Do not try to concoct your own theories. This is not the process. You must write just as you have heard from your Guru and nothing else. Otherwise, your writing is useless." (Letter to: Bhakta Dennis -- Mayapur 8 April, 1975)
"First thing is that one must understand Srimad-Bhagavatam fully. The first verse, if you simply explain, will take volumes and volumes. So, please study my books intensely and do not fail to chant 16 rounds daily following the four regulative principles strictly. This will make everything perfect." (Letter to: Aticandra -- Bombay 4 January, 1975)
"The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual master's instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple." (Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 1.35 Purport)
“If one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master. However, unless one follows the spiritual master’s instructions and the regulative principles governing chanting and hearing the holy name of the Lord, one cannot become a pure devotee. By one’s mental concoctions, one falls down. By associating with nondevotees, one breaks the regulative principles and is thereby lost.” (Cc Madhya-lila 19.157)
3. On the whole: Not serious about Krishna Consciousness
TEXT 41
vyavasāyātmikā buddhir
ekeha kuru-nandana
bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca
buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām
SYNONYMS
vyavasāyātmikā—resolute Kṛṣṇa consciousness; buddhiḥ—intelligence; ekā—only one; iha—in this world; kuru-nandana—O beloved child of the Kurus; bahu-śākhāḥ—various branches; hi—indeed; anantāḥ—unlimited; ca—also; buddhayaḥ—intelligence; avyavasāyinām—of those who are not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
TRANSLATION
Those who are on this path are resolute in purpose, and their aim is one. O beloved child of the Kurus, the intelligence of those who are irresolute is many-branched.
PURPORT
A strong faith in Kṛṣṇa consciousness that one should be elevated to the highest perfection of life is called vyavasāyātmikā intelligence. The Caitanya-caritāmṛta states:
'śraddhā'-śabde viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya
kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya
Faith means unflinching trust in something sublime. When one is engaged in the duties of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he need not act in relationship to the material world with obligations to family traditions, humanity, or nationality. Fruitive activities are the engagements of one's reactions from past good or bad deeds. When one is awake in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he need no longer endeavor for good results in his activities. When one is situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all activities are on the absolute plane, for they are no longer subject to dualities like good and bad. The highest perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is renunciation of the material conception of life. This state is automatically achieved by progressive Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The resolute purpose of a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is based on knowledge ("Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ") by which one comes to know perfectly that Vāsudeva, or Kṛṣṇa, is the root of all manifested causes. As water on the root of a tree is automatically distributed to the leaves and branches, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can render the highest service to everyone—namely self, family, society, country, humanity, etc. If Kṛṣṇa is satisfied by one's actions, then everyone will be satisfied.
Service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is, however, best practiced under the able guidance of a spiritual master who is a bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, who knows the nature of the student and who can guide him to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As such, to be well-versed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness one has to act firmly and obey the representative of Kṛṣṇa, and one should accept the instruction of the bona fide spiritual master as one's mission in life. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākur instructs us, in his famous prayers for the spiritual master, as follows:
yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo
yasyāprasādānna gatiḥ kuto 'pi
dhyāyaṁ stuvaṁs tasya yaśas tri-sandhyaṁ
vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam.
"By satisfaction of the spiritual master, the Supreme Personality of Godhead becomes satisfied. And by not satisfying the spiritual master, there is no chance of being promoted to the plane of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I should, therefore, meditate and pray for his mercy three times a day, and offer my respectful obeisances unto him, my spiritual master."
The whole process, however, depends on perfect knowledge of the soul beyond the conception of the body—not theoretically but practically, when there is no longer chance for sense gratification manifested in fruitive activities. One who is not firmly fixed in mind is diverted by various types of fruitive acts.
Bhagavad-gita As It Is 2.41
“After receiving the spiritual master’s mercy, one must repeat his instructions, and this is called śravaṇa-kīrtana-hearing and chanting. One who has not properly heard from the spiritual master or who does not follow the regulative principles is not fit for chanting (kīrtana). This is explained in Bhagavad-gītā (2.41): vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana. One who has not listened carefully to the instructions of the spiritual master is unfit to chant or preach the cult of devotional service. One has to water the bhakti-latā-bīja after receiving instructions from the spiritual master.” (CC Madhya 19.152)
The quotes used in this compilation have been taken from Srila Prabhupada's original, unrevised books and teachings.
Los Angeles Prabhupada Festival May 28th and 29th
PADA: Good idea. Unfortunately, many times we see GBC gurus there show boating around the festival. Lets hope this festival gets more Prabhupada focus over time. Prabhupadanugas should go there and preach the real idea.
I recall at one festival there Prithu das (Peter Brinkman) was ripping up our literatures and he was tearing up our photos of Prabhupada and then stomping them onto the ground. And of course Svavasa was providing the goondas on hand to make sure these goonda gurus can do these types of things.
That has about summed up the program of the GBC gurus over there in Los Angeles: rip up Prabhupada's photo and his quotes and stomp on his face, so we can worship their illicit sex messiahs instead, ok like Prithu who was one of their gurus over there and he could not even keep the basic standards up.
Than again Hrdayananda was also there strutting around with his crowd of fawning women etc. So its a little pathetic that these Krishna West guys etc. come there and steal the show. Of course Bhavananda's main henchman Jayapataka shows up sometimes so that people can worship the founder father of the molester messiahs project. And, ripping up photos of Prabhupada and stomping on them, ok that is just about how they have treated his followers.
Thankfully! Things are changing gradually, in part because these anti-Prabhupada folks are all getting old, dying, they are incapacitated, or people have read PADA and figured out they are rotten eggs. And we are gaining some of the younger people gradually, so its turning around slow but sure.
Anyway! The sentiment is good, lets hope it gradually becomes the reality over there in LA. Sura das and Svavasa did a great job there lecturing against Jayadvaita there, pointing out that their GBC's gurus are falling down left, right and center, and that is a great step in the right direction. Bravo. We need to encourage more of that and get rid of these Prabhupada photo ripping up and stomping on his face people being worshiped there as their messiahs. ys pd
http://prabhupadafestival.com/
I recall at one festival there Prithu das (Peter Brinkman) was ripping up our literatures and he was tearing up our photos of Prabhupada and then stomping them onto the ground. And of course Svavasa was providing the goondas on hand to make sure these goonda gurus can do these types of things.
That has about summed up the program of the GBC gurus over there in Los Angeles: rip up Prabhupada's photo and his quotes and stomp on his face, so we can worship their illicit sex messiahs instead, ok like Prithu who was one of their gurus over there and he could not even keep the basic standards up.
Than again Hrdayananda was also there strutting around with his crowd of fawning women etc. So its a little pathetic that these Krishna West guys etc. come there and steal the show. Of course Bhavananda's main henchman Jayapataka shows up sometimes so that people can worship the founder father of the molester messiahs project. And, ripping up photos of Prabhupada and stomping on them, ok that is just about how they have treated his followers.
Thankfully! Things are changing gradually, in part because these anti-Prabhupada folks are all getting old, dying, they are incapacitated, or people have read PADA and figured out they are rotten eggs. And we are gaining some of the younger people gradually, so its turning around slow but sure.
Anyway! The sentiment is good, lets hope it gradually becomes the reality over there in LA. Sura das and Svavasa did a great job there lecturing against Jayadvaita there, pointing out that their GBC's gurus are falling down left, right and center, and that is a great step in the right direction. Bravo. We need to encourage more of that and get rid of these Prabhupada photo ripping up and stomping on his face people being worshiped there as their messiahs. ys pd
http://prabhupadafestival.com/
Thursday, May 26, 2016
Glories of Sri Ramananda Raya
Subject: Sri Ramananda raya tirobhava tithi [disappearance day]
compiled by Damaghosa dasa, Narasimha dasa and Yasoda nandana dasa
Srila Prabhupada explains the unique position of Sri Ramanada Raya
Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition : Cc. Adi-lila : Adi 10: The Trunk, Branches and Sub branches of the Caitanya Tree : Adi 10.84 : PURPORT :
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught His principles through four chief followers. Among them, Ramananda Raya is exceptional, for through him the Lord taught how a devotee can completely vanquish the power of Cupid. By Cupid's power, as soon as one sees a beautiful woman he is conquered by her beauty. Sri Ramananda Raya, however, vanquished Cupid's pride. Indeed, while rehearsing the Jagannatha-vallabha-nataka he personally directed extremely beautiful young girls in dancing, but he was never affected by their youthful beauty. Sri Ramananda Raya personally bathed these girls, touching them and washing them with his own hands, yet he remained calm and passionless, as a great devotee should be.
Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu certified that this was possible only for Ramananda Raya. Similarly, Damodara Pandita was notable for his objectivity as a critic. He did not even spare Caitanya Mahaprabhu from his criticism. This also cannot be imitated by anyone else. Haridasa Thakura is exceptional for his forbearance because although he was beaten with canes in twenty-two marketplaces, nevertheless he was tolerant. Similarly, Sri Sanatana Gosvami, although he belonged to a most respectable brahmana family, was exceptional for his humility and meekness.
Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition : Cc. Adi-lila : Adi 10: The Trunk, Branches and Subbranches of the Caitanya Tree : Adi 10.131 : PURPORT :
In Jagannatha Puri Lord Caitanya lived at the house of Kasi Misra, who was the priest of the king. Later this house was inherited by Vakresvara Pandita and then by his disciple Gopalaguru Gosvami, who established there a Deity of Radhakanta. The Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika (193) states that Kasi Misra was formerly Kubja in Mathura..Pradyumna Misra, an inhabitant of Orissa, was a great devotee of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Pradyumna Misra was born of a brahmana family and Ramananda Raya of a non-brahmaṇa family, yet Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu advised Pradyumna Misra to take instruction from Ramananda Raya. This incident is described in the Antya-lila,Chapter Five.
Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition : Cc. Adi-lila : Adi 10: The Trunk, Branches and Subbranches of the Caitanya Tree : Adi 10.131 : PURPORT :
Bhavananda Raya was the father of Sri Ramananda Raya. His residence was in Alalanatha (Brahmagiri), which is about twelve miles west of Jagannatha Puri. By caste he belonged to the karana community of Orissa, whose members were sometimes known as kayasthas and sometimes as sudras, but he was the governor of Madras under the control of King Prataparudra of Jagannatha Puri.
ramananda raya, pattanayaka gopinatha
kalanidhi, sudhanidhi, nayaka vaninatha
SYNONYMS
ramananda raya—of the name Ramananda Raya; pattanayaka gopinatha—of the name Pattanayaka Gopinatha; kalanidhi—of the name Kalanidhi; sudhanidhi—of the nameSudhanidhi; nayaka vaninatha—of the name Nayaka Vaninatha.
TRANSLATION
The five sons of Bhavananda Raya were Ramananda Raya, Pattanayaka Gopinatha, Kalanidhi, Sudhanidhi and Nayaka Vaninatha. Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition : Cc. Adi-lila : Adi 10: The Trunk, Branches and Subbranches of the Caitanya Tree : Adi 10.133
ei panca putra tomara mora priyapatra
ramananda saha mora deha-bheda matra
SYNONYMS
ei—these; panca—five; putra—sons; tomara—your; mora—Mine; priya-patra—very dear; ramananda saha—with Sri Ramananda Raya; mora—Mine; deha-bheda—bodily difference; matra—only.
TRANSLATION
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu told Bhavananda Raya, "Your five sons are all My dear devotees. Ramananda Raya and I are one, although our bodies are different."
PURPORT
The Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika (120-24) states that Ramananda Raya was formerly Arjuna. He is also considered to have been an incarnation of the gopi Lalita, although in the opinion of others he was an incarnation of Visakhadevi. He was a most confidential devotee of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, "Although I am a sannyasi, My mind is sometimes perturbed when I see a woman. But Ramananda Raya is greater than Me, for he is always undisturbed, even when he touches a woman." Only Ramananda Raya was endowed with the purogative to touch a woman in this way; no one should imitate him. Unfortunately, there are rascals who imitate the activities of Ramananda Raya. We need not discuss them further.
In Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu's final pastimes, both Ramananda Raya and Svarupa Damodara always engaged in reciting suitable verses from Srimad-Bhagavatam to pacify the Lord's ecstatic feelings of separation from Krsna. It is said that when Lord Caitanya went to southern India, Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya advised Him to meet Ramananda Raya, declaring that there was no devotee as advanced in understanding the conjugal love of Kṛṣṇa and the gopis. While touring South India, Lord Caitanya met Ramananda Raya by the bank of the Godavari, and in their long discourses the Lord took the position of a student, and Ramananda Raya instructed Him.
Caitanya Mahaprabhu concluded these discourses by saying, "My dear Ramananda Raya, both you and I are madmen, and therefore we met intimately on an equal level." Lord Caitanya advised Ramananda Raya to resign from his government post and come back to Jagannatha Puri to live with Him. Although Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu refused to see Maharaja Prataparudra because he was a king, Ramananda Raya, by a Vaisnava scheme, arranged a meeting between the Lord and the King. This is described in the Madhya-lila, Chapter Twelve, verses 41-57. Sri Ramananda Raya was present during the water sports of the Lord after the Ratha-yatra festival.
Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu considered Sri Ramananda Raya and Sri Sanatana Gosvami to be equal in their renunciation, for although Sri Ramananda Raya was a grhastha engaged in government service and Sri Sanatana Gosvami was in the renounced order of complete detachment from material activities, they were both servants of the Supreme Personality of Godhead who kept Krsna in the center of all their activities. Sri Ramananda Raya was one of the three and a half personalities with whom Śrī Caitanya Mahaprabhu discussed the most confidential topics of Krsna consciousness. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu advised Pradyumna Misra to learn the science of Krsna from Sri Ramananda Raya. As Subala always assisted Krsna in His dealings with Radharani in krsna-lila, so Ramananda Raya assisted Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His feelings of separation from Krsna. Sri Ramananda Raya was the author of Jagannatha-vallabha-nataka.
Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition : Cc. Adi-lila : Adi 10: The Trunk, Branches and Subbranches of the Caitanya Tree : Adi 10.134
Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition : Cc. Adi-lila : Adi 10: The Trunk, Branches and Subbranches of the Caitanya Tree : Adi 10.135-136
Prataparudra Maharaja, who belonged to the dynasty of the Ganga kings and whose capital was in Cuttack, was the Emperor of Orissa and a great devotee of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. It was by the arrangement of Ramananda Raya and Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya that he was able to serve Lord Caitanya. In the Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika (118) it is said that King Indradyumna, who established the temple of Jagannatha thousands of years ago, later took birth again in his own family as Maharaja Prataparudra during the time of Śrī Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Maharaja Prataparudra was as powerful as King Indra. The drama named Caitanya-candrodaya was written under his direction.
Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition : Cc. Adi-lila : Adi 10: The Trunk, Branches and Subbranches of the Caitanya Tree : Adi 10.137 : PURPORT :
In the Antya-lila of Caitanya-caritamṛta, Chapter Two, verses 104-106, there is a description of Madhavidevi. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu considered her one of the maidservants of Śrimati Radharani. Within this world, Caitanya Mahaprabhu had three and a half very confidential devotees. The three were Svarupa Gosani, Sri Ramananda Raya and Sikhi Mahiti, and Sikhi Mahiti's sister, Madhavidevī, being a woman, was considered the half. Thus it is known that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu had three and a half confidential devotees.
vidyapati, jayadeva, candidasera gita
asvadena ramananda-svarupa-sahita
SYNONYMS
vidyapati—the author of the name Vidyapati; jayadeva—of the name Jayadeva; candidasera—of the name Candidasa; gita—their songs; asvadena—tastes; ramananda—of the name Ramananda; svarupa—of the name Svarupa; sahita—along with.
TRANSLATION
The Lord used to read the books of Vidyapati, Jayadeva and Candidasa, relishing their songs with His confidential associates like Sri Ramananda Raya and Svarupa Damodara Gosvami.
PURPORT
Vidyapati was a famous composer of songs about the pastimes of Radha-Krsna. He was an inhabitant of Mithila, born in a brahmaṇa family. It is calculated that he composed his songs during the reign of King Sivasimha and Queen Lachimadevi in the beginning of the fourteenth century of the Saka Era, almost one hundred years before the appearance of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. The twelfth generation of Vidyapati's descendants is still living. Vidyapati's songs about the pastimes of Lord Krsna express intense feelings of separation from Krsna, and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu relished all those songs in His ecstasy of separation from Krsna.
Jayadeva was born during the reign of Maharaja Laksmana Sena of Bengal in the eleventh or twelfth century of the Saka Era. His father was Bhojadeva, and his mother was Vamadevi. For many years he lived in Navadvipa, then the capital of Bengal. His birthplace was in the Birbhum district in the village Kendubilva. In the opinion of some authorities, however, he was born in Orissa, and still others say that he was born in southern India. He passed the last days of his life in Jagannatha Puri. One of his famous books is Gita-govinda, which is full of transcendental mellow feelings of separation from Krsna. The gopis felt separation from Krsna before the rasa dance, as mentioned in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the Gita-govinda expresses such feelings. There are many commentaries on the Gita-govinda by many Vaiṣṇavas.
Candidasa was born in the village of Nannura, which is also in the Birbhum district of Bengal. He was born of a brahmaṇa family, and it is said that he also took birth in the beginning of the fourteenth century, Sakabda Era. It has been suggested that Candidasa and Vidyapati were great friends because the writings of both express the transcendental feelings of separation profusely. The feelings of ecstasy described by Candidasa and Vidyapati were actually exhibited by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He relished all those feelings in the role of Srimati Radharanī, and His appropriate associates for this purpose were Sri Ramananda Raya and Sri Svarupa DamodaraGosvamī. These intimate associates of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu helped the Lord very much in the pastimes in which He felt like Radharani.
Śri Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Ṭhakura comments in this connection that such feelings of separation as Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu enjoyed from the books of Vidyapati, Candidasa and Jayadeva are especially reserved for persons like Śri Ramananda Raya and Svarupa Damodara, who were paramahamsas, men of the topmost perfection, because of their advanced spiritual consciousness. Such topics are not to be discussed by ordinary persons imitating the activities of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. For critical students of mundane poetry and literary men without God consciousness who are after bodily sense gratification, there is no need to read such a high standard of transcendental literature.
Persons who are after sense gratification should not try to imitate raganuga devotional service. In their songs, Candidasa,Vidyapati and Jayadeva have described the transcendental activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Mundane reviewers of the songs of Vidyapati, Jayadeva and Candidasa simply help people in general become debauchees, and this leads only to social scandals and atheism in the world. One should not misunderstand the pastimes of Radha and Krsna to be the activities of a mundane young boy and girl. The mundane sexual activities of young boys and girls are most abominable. Therefore, those who are in bodily consciousness and who desire sense gratification are forbidden to indulge in discussions of the transcendental pastimes of Śrī Radha and Krsna.
Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition : Cc. Adi-lila : Adi 13: The Advent of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu : Adi 13.42
pandita-gosani adi yanra yei rasa
sei sei rase prabhu hana tanra vasa
SYNONYMS
pandita-gosani—Gadadhara Pandita; adi—headed by; yanra—whose; yei—whatever; rasa—transcendental mellow; sei sei—that respective; rase—by the mellow; prabhu—the Lord; hana—is; tanra—his; vasa—under control.
TRANSLATION
Personal associates like Gadadhara, Svarupa Damodara, Ramananda Raya, and the six Gosvamis (headed by Rupa Gosvami) are all situated in their respective transcendental humors. Thus the Lord submits to various positions in various transcendental mellows.
PURPORT
In verses 296 through 301 the emotional devoted service of Sri Nityananda, Sri Advaita Prabhu and others has been fully described. Describing such individual service, the Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika, verses 11 through 16, declares that although Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu appeared as a devotee, He is none other than the son of Nanda Maharaja. Similarly, although Sri Nityananda Prabhu appeared as Lord Caitanya's assistant, He is none other than Baladeva, the carrier of the plow. Advaita Acarya is the incarnation of Sadasiva from the spiritual world. All the devotees headed by Srivasa Thakura are His marginal energy, whereas the devotees headed by Gadadhara Pandita are manifestations of His internal potency.
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Advaita Prabhu and Nityananda Prabhu all belong to the visnu-tattva category. Because Lord Caitanya is an ocean of mercy, He is addressed as mahaprabhu, whereas Nityananda and Advaita, being two great personalities who assist Lord Caitanya, are addressed as prabhu. Thus there are two prabhus and one mahaprabhu. Gadadhara Gosvamī is a representative of a perfect brahmaṇa spiritual master. Srivasa Thakura represents a perfect brahmaṇa devotee. These five are known as the Panca-tattva.
Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition : Cc. Adi-lila : Adi 17: The Pastimes of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His Youth : Adi 17.301
rāja-ājñā lañā teṅho āilā kata dine
rātri-dine kṛṣṇa-kathā rāmānanda-sane
SYNONYMS
rāja-ājñā—the permission of the King, Pratāparudra; lañā—getting; teṅho—Rāmānanda Rāya; āilā—returned; kata dine—in some days; rātri-dine—day and night; kṛṣṇa-kathā—talks of Lord Kṛṣṇa and His pastimes; rāmānanda-sane—in the company of Rāmānanda Rāya.
TRANSLATION
Upon the order of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sri Ramananda Raya took leave of the King and returned to Jagannatha Puri. After he arrived, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu very much enjoyed talking with him both day and night about Lord Krsna and His pastimes.
Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition : Cc. Madhya-lila : Madhya 1: The Later Pastimes of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu : Madhya 1.128
Wednesday, May 25, 2016
HKC Jaipur Totally Baffled by "Karmi" Cop's Question
Dayalu nitai das (Dharmesh Sharma) president HKC Jaipur
Thanks Sudarsan Das Vanacari! You said we should not attack Dayalu Nitai's HKC Jaipur folks. OK fine, lets have a short review of the issues to see who is attacking whom?
1) Dayalu Nitai said Prahlad is his "senior devotee" and many of his HKC leading people have cited -- to both me and others -- Prahlad's website as their authority. In addition, Prahlad das was personally sending me death threats saying he is going to give my photo to the GBC's goondas, to have me killed (which we told all of you repeatedly).
2) Prahlad thus says he is helping the GBC's goondas target and kill devotees, and Dayalu Nitai said, he is the HKC Jaipur's "senior man." That means Dayalu Nitai is endorsing a person whose program is hunting and killing devotees, as we have pointed out here repeatedly.
3) Therefore, HKC Jaipur is aiding, abetting and authorizing a person who regularly visits their property who issues illegal death threats, probably right from their property site. This is aiding and abetting illegal activity, and worse, its being encouraged by many leading HKC people who all tell me how they love Prahlad's program (of making death threats and trying to kill Krishna's devotees). These are same threats we got from Kirtanananda's folks, why are your folks following that process?
4) Death threats are illegal, just like HKC's using the Akshaya Patra charity name is illegal, just like the other persons the HKC folks are promoting such as Bhakta das are doing all sorts of illegal things and etc. All of which we detailed here on this blog, i.e. the HKC is in bed with criminals and criminal actions, and is aiding and abetting such actions and worse, is encouraging the people engaged in such, including assisting hunting and killing Vaishnavas.
5) So the first question should not come from PADA, since you folks think we are biased against your program. Lets take the question we always get from our friends at the police! The police always ask me the same question, "Why is it that your vegetarian Krishna folk's are so envious of you, they want to drink your blood"?
Whereas! Unlike you guys who, according to some of our police friends, want to drink the blood of the Vaishnavas, the police want to protect us Vaishnavas. In other words, why is it that the hamburger eating police want to save the Vaishnavas, and your program wants to drink the blood of the Vaishnavas? And the police themselves have said this type thing to me many times, "We police are vastly more spiritually advanced than these people, because we want Krishna's devotees to live while these (HKC senior) people want the devotees of Krishna's to die." (unquote) So why is it that the hamburger eating police are more advanced than your guys? That is not even my question, its their question.
So just answer the police's one single point for starters. Meanwhile, Dayalu nitai, Prahlad, Sudarsan and others claim we have not replied to their points, nope, it is they who never replied to our points. And it seems that for starters, they cannot even reply to a simple square one question from the hamburger eating sector?
So this is baffling, the entire HKC folks and all their assembled scholars cannot even answer one simple question from the karmis, they are totally stumped with the simplest of questions, and yet they are pontificating on so many other points? It seems, the police are vastly more self realized than they are, and that is why the HKC and all their minions have not been able to answer this question from the police for years together. Or what? Unfortunately, we also have to tell the police that the sole reason all these people want me to die is, they support the child molester messiahs program, and thus they lick the boots of that agenda's defenders like Bhakta das and Hari Sauri.
This is why Prabhupada says, first become a human being, then later you can think about becoming a devotee. In sum, according to the police, people like HKC Jaipur who promote advocates of hunting and killing Vaishnavas, are not qualified to ask anyone anything else.
Even Sulochana said, the dogs around here run up and lick the Vaishnavas, while these guys who want us assassinated are not as advanced as these dogs. Since the HKC supports a person who wants to see Vaishnavas hunted -- and killed, Sulochana says they are not as advanced as dogs. And he would know!
Dogs have better Vaishnava acar than this? So if they want to dialogue, as they claim they want to, they first they need to change and quit supporting a person who says he wants to see Vaishnavas hunted and killed. Apparently, the police's question, why do they want to drink Vaishnavas' blood while the police want to save the Vaishnavas' blood, has them totally baffled, what to speak of our further questions!
Go HKC folks! Write us your reply to angel108b@yahoo.com. ys pd
One simple question from the cops baffles all the combined HKC Jaipur scholars.
Tuesday, May 24, 2016
Conversation About ISKCON Children (Update May 2016)
"These children are given to us by Krishna, they are Vaisnavas and we must be very careful to protect them. These are not ordinary children, they are Vaikuntha children, and we are very fortunate we can give them chance to advance further in Krishna Consciousness. That is very great responsibility, do not neglect it or be confused. Your duty is very clear."
(Srila Prabhupada letter, July 30, 1972)
======================
Jagat: The child abuse in ISKCON is once again a subject, with the release of Sanaka Rsi's film. I have been told by Bhakta Demian Martins to my face that I should go to prison for my involvement in the Gurukula when abuses were going on, especially those of the leaders of Mayapur Chandrodaya Mandir when I was headmaster there, as well as of the teachers who worked under me.
I have publicly admitted that I was abusive. I used corporal punishment, as did nearly every other Gurukula teacher in Dallas or in Mayapur. When I was severely thrashed by the Mayapura villagers in 1977, I took it as a direct sign from Mahaprabhu that I had done wrong and stopped.
I claim innocence and ignorance about the sexual abuse. It was beyond my comprehension that anyone could do such a thing. When the veil was uncovered, I saw how widespread the abuse was. I did not feel capable of changing things and felt it more important to pursue authentic bhakti, which I felt was no longer available in the ISKCON institution after Prabhupada left.
I have had the good fortune of meeting some of my students in the 37 years since I left and all of them them have been friendly and forgiving and even appreciative of my efforts as a teacher and headmaster despite the things that I did.
Just now I said, let's blame Prabhupada shall we? Of course, no one wants to blame Prabhupada and neither do I, but the king is responsible for his kingdom. Prabhupada thought it more important to build the movement quickly and to spread it at any cost.
He was the one who recognized that in the war against Maya there would be casualties, but he pushed forward anyway, putting incompetent individuals in positions of authority and pushing them to perform at any cost. If they fell away it was sad, but that was the cost of doing things the way he did them.
We were incompetent. Ignorant. Foolish children. What did I know of child sexual abuse? It was outside my realm of experience entirely. Physical abuse in the sense of corporal punishment I had known in my home and in school in Canada. And in India, corporal punishment was socially accepted and approved. Even Prabhupada himself allowed for it on occasion. It took me some time to come to that realization, even with Prabhupada personally admonishing me.
So if I am responsible for Bhavananda, for Tapomoy, for Nitai Chand, for Shatadhanya, for Venkat, for Ananta Rupa, for Sri galim, for Anirdeshya Vapu or any of the other Gurukula people with whom I worked who eventually became known for sometimes unspeakable and horrific acts of abuse, I accept.
I was in touch with them all. I knew them, and I knew nothing of the abuses for which they were accused in later days. When I found out, I washed my hands of the problem rather than fighting to protect the children. That is a dereliction of duty.
I left ISKCON in December 1979. I have never regretted that decision. Prabhupada inspired me to seek out authentic Vaishnavism and authentic spirituality. I am sorry for the students who suffered and I sincerely hope that good outweighs the bad. If they feel that blaming me is helpful to their personal progress, I cannot object. Jai Radhe Shyam.
I see child abuse as ISKCON's wake up call, and they still have not woke up.
[PADA: This is a good start for creating a dialogue over these issues and we commend some ex-kulis for addressing this, and also for Jagat's making this public. For a more complete healing of all this we need to understand these issue more clearly from all aspects, including from the victims perspective.
As one ex-kuli told PADA, we were like Srila Prabhupada's newly made flower garden -- and then the leaders -- and their bogus schools -- poured plant poison on us to kill us off. This ex-kuli also said, "Of all the crimes of the GBC's leaders, this is the worst, because they practically killed off ISKCON's future. Srila Prabhupada had tremendous hope for us children, and we were chopped down like unwanted weeds."
So this is one reason we are so much on the case of people like Rupanuga, Prithu, Trivrikrama swami, Sudheer Krishna swami, Tripurari swami, Gaura Govinda maharaja and others, they were apparently so much consumed with their bogus "guru issue" thus they had little time to help us address the child abuse issue going on right under their noses.
OK it does seem to us -- if the abuse was known to folks like Jagat by 1979, this was very early on in the situation. If this had been widely reported and challenged more publicly -- it could have saved a lot of other future children from being victims. Various people came to understand there was a crisis going on -- including some leaders, a number of parents, or some of the teachers, but for different reasons they chose to ignore this, or just leave the movement and not protest.
Hence, some of the ex-children are now saying it was a conspiracy of silence. Another ex-kuli told us -- none of the adults came to assist us, including our teachers or even our own parents, we were on our own, and none of our "adult supervisors" really assisted us when it was discovered we were right later on. Read: The issue was back pedalled or ignored.
This is the same sort of trouble we have had with the Sanat (Steve Voith, Angelica New York) / Mukunda / Prahlad group. Sanat's wife said to us she knew there was wide spread abuse in Satsvarupa's "guru" school where she was a teacher, and yet she did not bother to report this to the authorities, or alert the ISKCON society at large (other parents in the worldwide society). In fact we never heard her name connected to any public complaints on this issue, ever.
Sanat and his wife explained to PADA that their silence was because they could not prosecute the underage perp or perps. OK, that was really never the main issue, you'd need to go after the schools administration, i.e. the teachers and GBC's leaders.
Specifically, you'd go after the GBC leader for that school, namely Satsvarupa Das Goswami, and alert the rest of the society to this problem to save other kids from getting tossed into this situation. Had they gone to the police and registered a complaint against Satsvarupa and other leaders, that would have become known all over the place as well. We also heard of other meetings with Satsvarupa where parents argued with him, but none of them ever went to the police. So multiply this effect by hundreds and maybe even thousands of cases, and there was indeed a conspiracy of silence.
They and other parents and teachers failed to act, hence the next minor aged victims were sucked into the situation with no general awareness of the scope of the problem. A number of parents told me they knew about the problem, but they did not want to have their names connected to any public opposition.
Later on the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad group said the way to fix this is simple, to have the victims silenced by threatening them with death. OK that is exactly what some of the perps were already doing, making threats of violence to the victims. So they were all thinking alike, the perps and the persons covering up for the perps, lets re-victimize the victims. And that is why, again, many victims said -- this is a conspiracy of silence. Of course threatening victims is not silence, its active suppression of the crimes.]
AP: Honesty is the indispensable step towards the Truth ... appreciating your honesty...
JGW: But some time let us "unpack" and elaborate in detail what "moving on" really means to you and to the victims of child abuse who suffer from that abuse to this day ...
AU: Where can one see the film?
SR: www.krishnachildren.com
Krishna's Children. Historically the Hare Krishna Movement has had an unacceptably high tolerance for child… KRISHNACHILDREN.COM
JD: BTW, I signed the petition and agree that punishment in secular courts is the only way to go. To be honest, I doubt that I will leave India to face the music at this point (Indian courts are an option I guess), but certainly those who are still involved should be subjected to impartial external investigation and sanctions.
JGW: The key to indictments and prosecutions at this late date seem to be: What are the statutes of limitations on what crimes of child abuse? Also are there laws per country declaring aiding and abetting of child abuse to be a crime? Then what are the statutes of limitations of those laws?
The key to indictments and prosecutions at this late date seem to be: What are the statutes of limitations on what crimes of child abuse? Also are there laws per country declaring aiding and abetting of child abuse to be a crime? Then what are the statutes of limitations of those laws?
I suspect you have "only" to seek god's (and godess') forgiveness but in doing so you may also have to seek via our shared holy heart (param-atma/atmi w/in each of us) the forgiveness of each and every gurukuli whom you abused in any way.
DN: If I may ask, under what circumstances were you "severely thrashed by the Miapore villagers in 1977"?
DF: Does the past exist?........ Show me it.? ........Is it not all karma? ...... Does not everyone get what they deserve in this world so called good and bad? Does not all get harmonized by the great harmonizer krsna? .......... I am completely baffled by devotees or maybe its just me ............ is it not all providence? ........ Who can change the material environment? ...... Is the soul actually doing anything? Is it ever entangled? bg 13 32 ...........pleasure ... grief ....... happiness distress .. victory defeat .. whose grasping? ......... just questions. ............. krsnaaaaaaaaaaa
Jagat: He made a gamble. A play. He thought, The Holy Name is the real force. Let me spread the Name as far and wide as possible and the Name will take responsibility. I am just a servant of the Name. Jai Prabhupada.
NR: According to SP himself gambling is against Bhakti, so if he gambled with others' lives, as you say, he was contradicting himself. And isn't the usage of others (in the name of serving God) as harmful or more so than impersonalism? Contradictions must be addressed then, evidently.
Jagat: Good argument. If you have deep faith in the Holy Name, you accept. Those sinners who came into contact with the Holy Name were benefitted in absolute fashion. The sins of the material world they would probably have committed anyway, probably worse. They were benedicted by contact with the Holy Name and a Vaishnava, whatever happened. That was not a gamble. That was faith.
NR: So he gambled or not? "He made a gamble. A play." "That was not a gamble." Which one was it?
Jagat: Yes I am sorry. I was not paying attention to what you were responding to. But my answer should still clarify that Prabhupada had faith that whatever he asked his disciples to do in the service of the Holy Name would benefit them absolutely. That their karmas would likely have been worse as non-devotees anyway, and wherever they stood on the path of spiritual life, the presence of the Holy Name would either quickly or in a long time, be of Absolute Benefit in bringing their focus on the goal of prema. He warned about committing sin on the strength of chanting and the problems that will cause, but inherently, though externally it may have appeared to be a gamble, it was an act of deep faith and conviction.
Although I personally think that this method was like throwing a non-swimmer into the deep end and that there are many difficulties with the way I see what Prabhupada did, I accept the basic teaching, which is that the Holy Name is the form of God and to remain in the presence of the Holy Name constantly is the secret to blessedness in the age of Kali. And that everyone, saint or sinner, who has come into contact with the Holy Name, even briefly, is eternally benefited.
But our job is different. Our job now is to master the science of love, prema, and that is something that is going to take generations. And this child abuse thing is really LESSON ONE.
Meaning that purification of the self is a long and arduous journey that DOES take lifetimes to complete. Saying one Harinam rids you of all your sins is true, but show me your sinlessness, O mind!.
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada did not really think he would have to make a specific directive that children needed to be given proper food, and that children should not be beaten or abused etc., because this is common knowledge even in the ordinary mundane karmi society.
What is self evident is that the bulk of the leaders of ISKCON began using the society's money for their own opulent lifestyles, such as -- extensive travel, nice cars, many servants, big houses, costly hotel stays, big motorhomes, fancy clothes, sometimes expensive jewelry, guns, weapons, drugs, girlfriends, and so on and so forth. And thus the varnasrama programs, farms, restaurants, schools and other projects withered, dried out, were severely neglected -- if not curtailed or suppressed completely.
Of course! Every adult person in the USA already knows that its wrong to oppress children, beat children, starve children, molest children, etc. Srila Prabhupada also did not think he had to make a specific directive that we should not create a bunch of bogus gurus who would be living like five star hotel famous rock and roll musicians after he departed, while the kids were being fed rotten oatmeal -- this should have been self -- evident.
And! The proper way to take care of children is known to even the most illiterate persons on the planet. Yep! Even the most isolated and illiterate farmer on top of the most isolated farm in the boon docks takes care of their own children with care and attention. It does not seem that specific directives needed to be made on this topic. Its really not rocket science either, the funds and energy meant to care for the children was siphoned off to give a few elite men an opulent life.]
AK: To blame Srila Prabhupada is foolish. This should be obvious.
Jagat: It is not blame. But when things happen we have to understand how and why they happened.
Let me put it this way, the reason Prabhupada gambled in the way he did, i.e. he could have made four or five disciples, brought them back to India, trained them up to be proper Gaudiya Math brahmacharis and so on, but he did not do that.
He did the complete opposite. He took people who knew nothing, who had no samskara whatsoever and he gave them the EGO, "I am a servant of Krishna and his holy name, etc." And though on the one hand he taught the classical philosophy about humility, in practice, it was the opposite. He gave them his hubris.
[PADA: Really does not give anyone a licence for child abuse of any type.]
Now he justified that hubris in the name of his mission. But his disciples never had anything but the hubris that comes with ignorance and blind faith, with all the dangers that these entail. It is better to keep kanishta bhaktas in a box, but Prabhupada told them they were madhyamas by selling books in the street.
So we can justify Prabhupada's gamble, but we don't have any right to the hubris. Just because you are preaching does not make you better than the Brijvasi doing bhajan on the banks of Radha Kund. It may take you a thousand lifetimes of pretending to be a devotee in New Zealand or wherever before you can have that good fortune.
AK: I am just saying that it is not reasonable to claim that a pure devotee did anything wrong.
NR: Jagat, you still don't address the issue at hand and which is the fact that our children are not safe in the Hare Krishna movement. Why did Srila Prabhupada gamble with the lives of children? Are you saying Srila Prabhupada thought the spiritual future of his immediate, undeveloped young disciples was more important than the next generations'? What would be the use of spreading the holy name if the chanters were so dangerous? Didn't Srila Prabhupada also say to not hear the Name from the lips of serpents? I still think you defend the predators more than you are willing to sympathize with the children. Aren't you representing more yourself here than Srila Prabhupada?
DN: To assert that children "deserve" to be emotionally, physically, or sexually abused is despicable nonsense, DF, which not only implies that abusers should not be taken to task by temporal authorities, but also illustrates misunderstanding of what karma is, and a complete misunderstanding of the relationship of the embodied soul to Krishna.
KKD: In hindsight, was the abuse that took place mostly corporeal or sexual? My impression from the video is there was an emphasis of the sexual over the corporeal.
S Devi Dasi: Both and more.
Pratyatosa Dasa Corporeal punishment is not necessarily abuse. As far as I know, it's still permitted in some states in the US. On the other hand, sexual molestation / rape of helpless children by adults in positions of trust is a crime that even criminals consider abominable! How could anyone who takes a vow of "no illicit sex" stoop to such depths of degradation? Such a person should be in jail, not protected by the ISKCON leaders! Yes, ISKCON is still being run by incompetent, unqualified leaders, but the fact that some of these incompetent, unqualified rascals think that they are "gurus like Prabhupada" really takes the cake, doesn't it?
DL: I applaud your honesty, Jagat, and your willingness to move on from the past. I am so sorry you see Srila Prabhupada as partially to blame for what happened. I, as a tiny insignificant soul, am glad I don't.
P Dasi: I find the system that you are punished in your next life for what you did in a previous illogical. But if it is really like that, you will get punishment when you can't remember what you did anymore. The Mahabharata story about the dice game shows that if you know something bad is going on, but don't do anything about it, you share the punishment.
About not knowing. We have a horrifying history of 71 people was executed as witches in one day in Sweden, when the juridical authority was out travelling, and did not know what was going on. When he came home and heard about it he put a stop to witch burning permanently with his authority.
Using that as a good example, those leaders who want to clean out their part of the sin, should have used all their authority to stop it, as soon as they learned about it. That did not happen, and the sin has spread far and wide since. I think Harikesa was one of the few who were fighting for the right of the children, up till he resigned or got kicked out. But as for the others, they have their own Kuruksetra battle to look forward to get slaughtered in.
Those who think that they can get free of their wilfully committed sin, after having learned about the philosophy, by the power of the Hare Krishna mantra, are in illusion, their intelligence already stolen away. And we can see how it goes on and on spreading, since it was never stopped, never purged. Birds of a feather flock together, new child abusers know where to go, where the leaders will look the other way....
.
It is just sickening.
Pratyatosa Dasa: IMHO, completely eliminating child abuse within ISKCON is impossible as long as ISKCON is run by a "Good ol' Boys Club" with no accountability to anyone except themselves, and a "CPO" which is controlled by this same corrupt "Good ol' Boys Club!"
JDas: y demonio quien culpe a Prabhupada,deberian tener verguenza y callarse y dejar de insultar a Iskcon y dar motivos a los que odian el movimiento
Rascal and demon who blame prabhupada, should be ashamed and shut up and stop insulting iskcon and give reasons to those who hate the movement
CK: I would say that there are a number of recurring issues that contributed to these scenarios - we joined a society which encouraged a false sense of utopia - all the evils and shortcomings of human nature were 'out there' in the material world.
JJY: I was there at that time. I never heard from someone that you have done some wrong and I did not notice anything wrong with you. But I witnessed also that things were going really wrong, that management was involved at the top level , and that's also why I left in 1980. Nothing did really change afterwards, at least for the next 5 or 6 years... But I left also because I noticed that I was surrounded by thieves and I became morose about that, specially when induced by superiors not to make waves...
PADA: Well as soon as we said there is a child abuse program, we were banned from ISKCON, then later threatened with death, and some of my associates were beaten and killed. They did not act responsibly, they covered it up and oppressed those of us opposing the program.
I even told some of them in 1980 that if they do not get the child abuse under control there will be a lawsuit, they said so what, sue us then, they wanted this lawsuit and they even told me they wanted this lawsuit. They wanted to be sued, they told me that!
MDE: Wow I had no idea
YAD: Srila Prabhupada concluded his meeting with Ramesvara by saying that the devotees should be very alert and intelligently defend the Krsna consciousness movement; but they should also understand that a higher principle was operating This opposition indicated the genuineness of ISKCON. Even Krsna Himself was sometimes the center of calamitous activities, such as when He fought with Kaliya and other enemies or when, as an infant, He fell into the Yamuna river.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => SPL 51: Chant Hare Krsna and Fight
PADA: I told Mukunda swami around 1980 that a mother disciple of Bhavananda was having a total nervous breakdown because she thought her five year old son was being asked too many times to "give massages to the guru." I said her therapist said he had never seen such a severe breakdown. Mukunda swami said so what, I have heard many worse stories than that. And of course we were booted out of ISKCON for bringing this topic up at all.
Ramesvara was later on "dating" his own female gurukula student and taking her to the mall, where witnesses saw him buying her a mini skirt. Another witness said he had young girls on his lap in his office, and etc. We reported these things for years and years and were shunned, ignored, threatened, chased with baseball bats etc. Narayana Maharaja also said we were poison for attacking this program and he said these children are just getting their karma, in other words he is authorized to promote this regime and we all have to get banned or children get molested and "its our karma." ys pd
======================
Dear K****** Devi Dasi
When Sulochana was in New Vrndavana in the early 1980s he told me that I was wasting my time criticizing Kirtanananda because there are 300 devotee couples living there (600 devotees total) and they all love Bhaktipada, and I should just accept the will of my God brothers. OK that means there were a lot of my God brothers and sisters who simply went along with the GBC's illusion of guru process without questioning, especially at that time. Think about it! Even I as an adult had MAJOR troubles trying to point out problems, what to speak if you were a child who was only five years old trying to point to the problems! The good news is -- we later helped Sulochana escape from that place ...
======================
Thanks Manjari, Well sorry, Ramesvara was dating a young gurukula student, he was seen by a group of devotees at the Santa Monica Mall with her buying her a miniskirt. He was also seen by other witnesses with other young girls seated on his lap.
His goonda group later told me Ramesvara was involved with Sulochana's murder, and his former henchmen are now my friends. They are eye-witnesses. I was next on their hit list, because I was reporting the child abuse program.
As for Narayana Maharaja, he was saying people like Ramesvara are gurus, despite they were dating their own disciples and engaging in other foolishness. He also said Tamal is a bona fide guru and Radha's dear Tamal tree etc., and he was spending time with Tamal in Dallas, at the same time the GBC reinstated Bhavananda, and all sorts of abuse was going on under the Bhavananda regime (which I was reporting from time to time in my newsletters).
Bhavananda was having sex with taxi drivers and he was reinstated as their guru, and this was well known to everyone and was reported to Narayana Maharaja and he still defended their guru program, and he said we are poison for objecting. I know because I was collating all the documents on this and was placing them on my web site harekrsna org.
I also helped other kulis including Raghunatha with the Turley lawsuit and was the person who advertised for affidavits and etc. The 11 gurus overall were living like opulent kings with fancy cars, French Riviera lifestyle, while the kids were being fed rotten green moldy oatmeal. I know all about this because I have read many statements from the victims and I also know many victims.
These 11 gurus were siphoning money meant to feed and care for children and using to live like kings, and they were all flying over to hang out with Narayana Maharaja, who was encouraging them and their regime. Narayan Maharaja was the best friend advocate of the enforced cult ritualistic worship of sexual predator acharyas, and I know because he often criticized us and he hung out exclusively with them.
Narayana Maharaja later on invited me to his ashram to talk, then he left me sitting for 10 hours avoiding me. Then he sneaked out the back door and left the property. He knew that I knew that he knew etc. He also was spitting mad at our associates and he said we are wrong to challenge Tamal, the founder father of the child abuse acharya's program.
I have way too many witnesses for this, and much of this is recorded on my sites, as well as in the affidavits submitted to the Dallas courts. NM also did say these children are just getting their karma, that means he thinks he is authorized to support a regime that is victimizing children and these children are just getting their karma. Or you tell me what that means?
So this is a little strange, many children went on later to accept Radhanath as their guru, never mind he was Kirtanananda's main henchman. Other children went on to accept Narayana Maharaja as their guru, and he was the main person who was the biggest cheer leader of the GBC's molester messiah's regime. This means, their parents are still to blame because they lead their children off to these dubious piped pipers.
ys pd]
(Srila Prabhupada letter, July 30, 1972)
======================
Jagat: The child abuse in ISKCON is once again a subject, with the release of Sanaka Rsi's film. I have been told by Bhakta Demian Martins to my face that I should go to prison for my involvement in the Gurukula when abuses were going on, especially those of the leaders of Mayapur Chandrodaya Mandir when I was headmaster there, as well as of the teachers who worked under me.
I have publicly admitted that I was abusive. I used corporal punishment, as did nearly every other Gurukula teacher in Dallas or in Mayapur. When I was severely thrashed by the Mayapura villagers in 1977, I took it as a direct sign from Mahaprabhu that I had done wrong and stopped.
I claim innocence and ignorance about the sexual abuse. It was beyond my comprehension that anyone could do such a thing. When the veil was uncovered, I saw how widespread the abuse was. I did not feel capable of changing things and felt it more important to pursue authentic bhakti, which I felt was no longer available in the ISKCON institution after Prabhupada left.
I have had the good fortune of meeting some of my students in the 37 years since I left and all of them them have been friendly and forgiving and even appreciative of my efforts as a teacher and headmaster despite the things that I did.
Just now I said, let's blame Prabhupada shall we? Of course, no one wants to blame Prabhupada and neither do I, but the king is responsible for his kingdom. Prabhupada thought it more important to build the movement quickly and to spread it at any cost.
He was the one who recognized that in the war against Maya there would be casualties, but he pushed forward anyway, putting incompetent individuals in positions of authority and pushing them to perform at any cost. If they fell away it was sad, but that was the cost of doing things the way he did them.
We were incompetent. Ignorant. Foolish children. What did I know of child sexual abuse? It was outside my realm of experience entirely. Physical abuse in the sense of corporal punishment I had known in my home and in school in Canada. And in India, corporal punishment was socially accepted and approved. Even Prabhupada himself allowed for it on occasion. It took me some time to come to that realization, even with Prabhupada personally admonishing me.
So if I am responsible for Bhavananda, for Tapomoy, for Nitai Chand, for Shatadhanya, for Venkat, for Ananta Rupa, for Sri galim, for Anirdeshya Vapu or any of the other Gurukula people with whom I worked who eventually became known for sometimes unspeakable and horrific acts of abuse, I accept.
I was in touch with them all. I knew them, and I knew nothing of the abuses for which they were accused in later days. When I found out, I washed my hands of the problem rather than fighting to protect the children. That is a dereliction of duty.
I left ISKCON in December 1979. I have never regretted that decision. Prabhupada inspired me to seek out authentic Vaishnavism and authentic spirituality. I am sorry for the students who suffered and I sincerely hope that good outweighs the bad. If they feel that blaming me is helpful to their personal progress, I cannot object. Jai Radhe Shyam.
I see child abuse as ISKCON's wake up call, and they still have not woke up.
[PADA: This is a good start for creating a dialogue over these issues and we commend some ex-kulis for addressing this, and also for Jagat's making this public. For a more complete healing of all this we need to understand these issue more clearly from all aspects, including from the victims perspective.
As one ex-kuli told PADA, we were like Srila Prabhupada's newly made flower garden -- and then the leaders -- and their bogus schools -- poured plant poison on us to kill us off. This ex-kuli also said, "Of all the crimes of the GBC's leaders, this is the worst, because they practically killed off ISKCON's future. Srila Prabhupada had tremendous hope for us children, and we were chopped down like unwanted weeds."
So this is one reason we are so much on the case of people like Rupanuga, Prithu, Trivrikrama swami, Sudheer Krishna swami, Tripurari swami, Gaura Govinda maharaja and others, they were apparently so much consumed with their bogus "guru issue" thus they had little time to help us address the child abuse issue going on right under their noses.
OK it does seem to us -- if the abuse was known to folks like Jagat by 1979, this was very early on in the situation. If this had been widely reported and challenged more publicly -- it could have saved a lot of other future children from being victims. Various people came to understand there was a crisis going on -- including some leaders, a number of parents, or some of the teachers, but for different reasons they chose to ignore this, or just leave the movement and not protest.
Hence, some of the ex-children are now saying it was a conspiracy of silence. Another ex-kuli told us -- none of the adults came to assist us, including our teachers or even our own parents, we were on our own, and none of our "adult supervisors" really assisted us when it was discovered we were right later on. Read: The issue was back pedalled or ignored.
This is the same sort of trouble we have had with the Sanat (Steve Voith, Angelica New York) / Mukunda / Prahlad group. Sanat's wife said to us she knew there was wide spread abuse in Satsvarupa's "guru" school where she was a teacher, and yet she did not bother to report this to the authorities, or alert the ISKCON society at large (other parents in the worldwide society). In fact we never heard her name connected to any public complaints on this issue, ever.
Sanat and his wife explained to PADA that their silence was because they could not prosecute the underage perp or perps. OK, that was really never the main issue, you'd need to go after the schools administration, i.e. the teachers and GBC's leaders.
Specifically, you'd go after the GBC leader for that school, namely Satsvarupa Das Goswami, and alert the rest of the society to this problem to save other kids from getting tossed into this situation. Had they gone to the police and registered a complaint against Satsvarupa and other leaders, that would have become known all over the place as well. We also heard of other meetings with Satsvarupa where parents argued with him, but none of them ever went to the police. So multiply this effect by hundreds and maybe even thousands of cases, and there was indeed a conspiracy of silence.
They and other parents and teachers failed to act, hence the next minor aged victims were sucked into the situation with no general awareness of the scope of the problem. A number of parents told me they knew about the problem, but they did not want to have their names connected to any public opposition.
Later on the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad group said the way to fix this is simple, to have the victims silenced by threatening them with death. OK that is exactly what some of the perps were already doing, making threats of violence to the victims. So they were all thinking alike, the perps and the persons covering up for the perps, lets re-victimize the victims. And that is why, again, many victims said -- this is a conspiracy of silence. Of course threatening victims is not silence, its active suppression of the crimes.]
AP: Honesty is the indispensable step towards the Truth ... appreciating your honesty...
JGW: But some time let us "unpack" and elaborate in detail what "moving on" really means to you and to the victims of child abuse who suffer from that abuse to this day ...
AU: Where can one see the film?
SR: www.krishnachildren.com
Krishna's Children. Historically the Hare Krishna Movement has had an unacceptably high tolerance for child… KRISHNACHILDREN.COM
JD: BTW, I signed the petition and agree that punishment in secular courts is the only way to go. To be honest, I doubt that I will leave India to face the music at this point (Indian courts are an option I guess), but certainly those who are still involved should be subjected to impartial external investigation and sanctions.
JGW: The key to indictments and prosecutions at this late date seem to be: What are the statutes of limitations on what crimes of child abuse? Also are there laws per country declaring aiding and abetting of child abuse to be a crime? Then what are the statutes of limitations of those laws?
The key to indictments and prosecutions at this late date seem to be: What are the statutes of limitations on what crimes of child abuse? Also are there laws per country declaring aiding and abetting of child abuse to be a crime? Then what are the statutes of limitations of those laws?
I suspect you have "only" to seek god's (and godess') forgiveness but in doing so you may also have to seek via our shared holy heart (param-atma/atmi w/in each of us) the forgiveness of each and every gurukuli whom you abused in any way.
DN: If I may ask, under what circumstances were you "severely thrashed by the Miapore villagers in 1977"?
DF: Does the past exist?........ Show me it.? ........Is it not all karma? ...... Does not everyone get what they deserve in this world so called good and bad? Does not all get harmonized by the great harmonizer krsna? .......... I am completely baffled by devotees or maybe its just me ............ is it not all providence? ........ Who can change the material environment? ...... Is the soul actually doing anything? Is it ever entangled? bg 13 32 ...........pleasure ... grief ....... happiness distress .. victory defeat .. whose grasping? ......... just questions. ............. krsnaaaaaaaaaaa
Jagat: He made a gamble. A play. He thought, The Holy Name is the real force. Let me spread the Name as far and wide as possible and the Name will take responsibility. I am just a servant of the Name. Jai Prabhupada.
NR: According to SP himself gambling is against Bhakti, so if he gambled with others' lives, as you say, he was contradicting himself. And isn't the usage of others (in the name of serving God) as harmful or more so than impersonalism? Contradictions must be addressed then, evidently.
Jagat: Good argument. If you have deep faith in the Holy Name, you accept. Those sinners who came into contact with the Holy Name were benefitted in absolute fashion. The sins of the material world they would probably have committed anyway, probably worse. They were benedicted by contact with the Holy Name and a Vaishnava, whatever happened. That was not a gamble. That was faith.
NR: So he gambled or not? "He made a gamble. A play." "That was not a gamble." Which one was it?
Jagat: Yes I am sorry. I was not paying attention to what you were responding to. But my answer should still clarify that Prabhupada had faith that whatever he asked his disciples to do in the service of the Holy Name would benefit them absolutely. That their karmas would likely have been worse as non-devotees anyway, and wherever they stood on the path of spiritual life, the presence of the Holy Name would either quickly or in a long time, be of Absolute Benefit in bringing their focus on the goal of prema. He warned about committing sin on the strength of chanting and the problems that will cause, but inherently, though externally it may have appeared to be a gamble, it was an act of deep faith and conviction.
Although I personally think that this method was like throwing a non-swimmer into the deep end and that there are many difficulties with the way I see what Prabhupada did, I accept the basic teaching, which is that the Holy Name is the form of God and to remain in the presence of the Holy Name constantly is the secret to blessedness in the age of Kali. And that everyone, saint or sinner, who has come into contact with the Holy Name, even briefly, is eternally benefited.
But our job is different. Our job now is to master the science of love, prema, and that is something that is going to take generations. And this child abuse thing is really LESSON ONE.
Meaning that purification of the self is a long and arduous journey that DOES take lifetimes to complete. Saying one Harinam rids you of all your sins is true, but show me your sinlessness, O mind!.
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada did not really think he would have to make a specific directive that children needed to be given proper food, and that children should not be beaten or abused etc., because this is common knowledge even in the ordinary mundane karmi society.
What is self evident is that the bulk of the leaders of ISKCON began using the society's money for their own opulent lifestyles, such as -- extensive travel, nice cars, many servants, big houses, costly hotel stays, big motorhomes, fancy clothes, sometimes expensive jewelry, guns, weapons, drugs, girlfriends, and so on and so forth. And thus the varnasrama programs, farms, restaurants, schools and other projects withered, dried out, were severely neglected -- if not curtailed or suppressed completely.
Of course! Every adult person in the USA already knows that its wrong to oppress children, beat children, starve children, molest children, etc. Srila Prabhupada also did not think he had to make a specific directive that we should not create a bunch of bogus gurus who would be living like five star hotel famous rock and roll musicians after he departed, while the kids were being fed rotten oatmeal -- this should have been self -- evident.
And! The proper way to take care of children is known to even the most illiterate persons on the planet. Yep! Even the most isolated and illiterate farmer on top of the most isolated farm in the boon docks takes care of their own children with care and attention. It does not seem that specific directives needed to be made on this topic. Its really not rocket science either, the funds and energy meant to care for the children was siphoned off to give a few elite men an opulent life.]
AK: To blame Srila Prabhupada is foolish. This should be obvious.
Jagat: It is not blame. But when things happen we have to understand how and why they happened.
Let me put it this way, the reason Prabhupada gambled in the way he did, i.e. he could have made four or five disciples, brought them back to India, trained them up to be proper Gaudiya Math brahmacharis and so on, but he did not do that.
He did the complete opposite. He took people who knew nothing, who had no samskara whatsoever and he gave them the EGO, "I am a servant of Krishna and his holy name, etc." And though on the one hand he taught the classical philosophy about humility, in practice, it was the opposite. He gave them his hubris.
[PADA: Really does not give anyone a licence for child abuse of any type.]
Now he justified that hubris in the name of his mission. But his disciples never had anything but the hubris that comes with ignorance and blind faith, with all the dangers that these entail. It is better to keep kanishta bhaktas in a box, but Prabhupada told them they were madhyamas by selling books in the street.
So we can justify Prabhupada's gamble, but we don't have any right to the hubris. Just because you are preaching does not make you better than the Brijvasi doing bhajan on the banks of Radha Kund. It may take you a thousand lifetimes of pretending to be a devotee in New Zealand or wherever before you can have that good fortune.
AK: I am just saying that it is not reasonable to claim that a pure devotee did anything wrong.
NR: Jagat, you still don't address the issue at hand and which is the fact that our children are not safe in the Hare Krishna movement. Why did Srila Prabhupada gamble with the lives of children? Are you saying Srila Prabhupada thought the spiritual future of his immediate, undeveloped young disciples was more important than the next generations'? What would be the use of spreading the holy name if the chanters were so dangerous? Didn't Srila Prabhupada also say to not hear the Name from the lips of serpents? I still think you defend the predators more than you are willing to sympathize with the children. Aren't you representing more yourself here than Srila Prabhupada?
DN: To assert that children "deserve" to be emotionally, physically, or sexually abused is despicable nonsense, DF, which not only implies that abusers should not be taken to task by temporal authorities, but also illustrates misunderstanding of what karma is, and a complete misunderstanding of the relationship of the embodied soul to Krishna.
KKD: In hindsight, was the abuse that took place mostly corporeal or sexual? My impression from the video is there was an emphasis of the sexual over the corporeal.
S Devi Dasi: Both and more.
Pratyatosa Dasa Corporeal punishment is not necessarily abuse. As far as I know, it's still permitted in some states in the US. On the other hand, sexual molestation / rape of helpless children by adults in positions of trust is a crime that even criminals consider abominable! How could anyone who takes a vow of "no illicit sex" stoop to such depths of degradation? Such a person should be in jail, not protected by the ISKCON leaders! Yes, ISKCON is still being run by incompetent, unqualified leaders, but the fact that some of these incompetent, unqualified rascals think that they are "gurus like Prabhupada" really takes the cake, doesn't it?
DL: I applaud your honesty, Jagat, and your willingness to move on from the past. I am so sorry you see Srila Prabhupada as partially to blame for what happened. I, as a tiny insignificant soul, am glad I don't.
P Dasi: I find the system that you are punished in your next life for what you did in a previous illogical. But if it is really like that, you will get punishment when you can't remember what you did anymore. The Mahabharata story about the dice game shows that if you know something bad is going on, but don't do anything about it, you share the punishment.
About not knowing. We have a horrifying history of 71 people was executed as witches in one day in Sweden, when the juridical authority was out travelling, and did not know what was going on. When he came home and heard about it he put a stop to witch burning permanently with his authority.
Using that as a good example, those leaders who want to clean out their part of the sin, should have used all their authority to stop it, as soon as they learned about it. That did not happen, and the sin has spread far and wide since. I think Harikesa was one of the few who were fighting for the right of the children, up till he resigned or got kicked out. But as for the others, they have their own Kuruksetra battle to look forward to get slaughtered in.
Those who think that they can get free of their wilfully committed sin, after having learned about the philosophy, by the power of the Hare Krishna mantra, are in illusion, their intelligence already stolen away. And we can see how it goes on and on spreading, since it was never stopped, never purged. Birds of a feather flock together, new child abusers know where to go, where the leaders will look the other way....
.
It is just sickening.
Pratyatosa Dasa: IMHO, completely eliminating child abuse within ISKCON is impossible as long as ISKCON is run by a "Good ol' Boys Club" with no accountability to anyone except themselves, and a "CPO" which is controlled by this same corrupt "Good ol' Boys Club!"
JDas: y demonio quien culpe a Prabhupada,deberian tener verguenza y callarse y dejar de insultar a Iskcon y dar motivos a los que odian el movimiento
Rascal and demon who blame prabhupada, should be ashamed and shut up and stop insulting iskcon and give reasons to those who hate the movement
CK: I would say that there are a number of recurring issues that contributed to these scenarios - we joined a society which encouraged a false sense of utopia - all the evils and shortcomings of human nature were 'out there' in the material world.
JJY: I was there at that time. I never heard from someone that you have done some wrong and I did not notice anything wrong with you. But I witnessed also that things were going really wrong, that management was involved at the top level , and that's also why I left in 1980. Nothing did really change afterwards, at least for the next 5 or 6 years... But I left also because I noticed that I was surrounded by thieves and I became morose about that, specially when induced by superiors not to make waves...
PADA: Well as soon as we said there is a child abuse program, we were banned from ISKCON, then later threatened with death, and some of my associates were beaten and killed. They did not act responsibly, they covered it up and oppressed those of us opposing the program.
I even told some of them in 1980 that if they do not get the child abuse under control there will be a lawsuit, they said so what, sue us then, they wanted this lawsuit and they even told me they wanted this lawsuit. They wanted to be sued, they told me that!
MDE: Wow I had no idea
YAD: Srila Prabhupada concluded his meeting with Ramesvara by saying that the devotees should be very alert and intelligently defend the Krsna consciousness movement; but they should also understand that a higher principle was operating This opposition indicated the genuineness of ISKCON. Even Krsna Himself was sometimes the center of calamitous activities, such as when He fought with Kaliya and other enemies or when, as an infant, He fell into the Yamuna river.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => SPL 51: Chant Hare Krsna and Fight
PADA: I told Mukunda swami around 1980 that a mother disciple of Bhavananda was having a total nervous breakdown because she thought her five year old son was being asked too many times to "give massages to the guru." I said her therapist said he had never seen such a severe breakdown. Mukunda swami said so what, I have heard many worse stories than that. And of course we were booted out of ISKCON for bringing this topic up at all.
Ramesvara was later on "dating" his own female gurukula student and taking her to the mall, where witnesses saw him buying her a mini skirt. Another witness said he had young girls on his lap in his office, and etc. We reported these things for years and years and were shunned, ignored, threatened, chased with baseball bats etc. Narayana Maharaja also said we were poison for attacking this program and he said these children are just getting their karma, in other words he is authorized to promote this regime and we all have to get banned or children get molested and "its our karma." ys pd
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Dear K****** Devi Dasi
When Sulochana was in New Vrndavana in the early 1980s he told me that I was wasting my time criticizing Kirtanananda because there are 300 devotee couples living there (600 devotees total) and they all love Bhaktipada, and I should just accept the will of my God brothers. OK that means there were a lot of my God brothers and sisters who simply went along with the GBC's illusion of guru process without questioning, especially at that time. Think about it! Even I as an adult had MAJOR troubles trying to point out problems, what to speak if you were a child who was only five years old trying to point to the problems! The good news is -- we later helped Sulochana escape from that place ...
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Thanks Manjari, Well sorry, Ramesvara was dating a young gurukula student, he was seen by a group of devotees at the Santa Monica Mall with her buying her a miniskirt. He was also seen by other witnesses with other young girls seated on his lap.
His goonda group later told me Ramesvara was involved with Sulochana's murder, and his former henchmen are now my friends. They are eye-witnesses. I was next on their hit list, because I was reporting the child abuse program.
As for Narayana Maharaja, he was saying people like Ramesvara are gurus, despite they were dating their own disciples and engaging in other foolishness. He also said Tamal is a bona fide guru and Radha's dear Tamal tree etc., and he was spending time with Tamal in Dallas, at the same time the GBC reinstated Bhavananda, and all sorts of abuse was going on under the Bhavananda regime (which I was reporting from time to time in my newsletters).
Bhavananda was having sex with taxi drivers and he was reinstated as their guru, and this was well known to everyone and was reported to Narayana Maharaja and he still defended their guru program, and he said we are poison for objecting. I know because I was collating all the documents on this and was placing them on my web site harekrsna org.
I also helped other kulis including Raghunatha with the Turley lawsuit and was the person who advertised for affidavits and etc. The 11 gurus overall were living like opulent kings with fancy cars, French Riviera lifestyle, while the kids were being fed rotten green moldy oatmeal. I know all about this because I have read many statements from the victims and I also know many victims.
These 11 gurus were siphoning money meant to feed and care for children and using to live like kings, and they were all flying over to hang out with Narayana Maharaja, who was encouraging them and their regime. Narayan Maharaja was the best friend advocate of the enforced cult ritualistic worship of sexual predator acharyas, and I know because he often criticized us and he hung out exclusively with them.
Narayana Maharaja later on invited me to his ashram to talk, then he left me sitting for 10 hours avoiding me. Then he sneaked out the back door and left the property. He knew that I knew that he knew etc. He also was spitting mad at our associates and he said we are wrong to challenge Tamal, the founder father of the child abuse acharya's program.
I have way too many witnesses for this, and much of this is recorded on my sites, as well as in the affidavits submitted to the Dallas courts. NM also did say these children are just getting their karma, that means he thinks he is authorized to support a regime that is victimizing children and these children are just getting their karma. Or you tell me what that means?
So this is a little strange, many children went on later to accept Radhanath as their guru, never mind he was Kirtanananda's main henchman. Other children went on to accept Narayana Maharaja as their guru, and he was the main person who was the biggest cheer leader of the GBC's molester messiah's regime. This means, their parents are still to blame because they lead their children off to these dubious piped pipers.
ys pd]