Tuesday, December 31, 2013
Monday, December 30, 2013
OneISKCON Preaching that Gurus Are Debauchees (update)
http://www.oneiskcon.com/guru-tyaga-and-reinitiation-part-one-2/
[PADA: Oh, oh, here we go again, Danavir's site is once again saying that Lord Krishna's successor acharyas are always falling down into: Illicit sex, drugs, criminal behavior, guru tyagi, guru aparadha, less than sudra behavior, watching cheer leader's dancing on TV football, watching porno in their motorhomes, less than dog behavior, and so on.
No wonder their temples are empty?
(Q.) Who wants to worship less than sudras as gurus, or even less than dog's behavior?
(A.) Probably nobody, ok maybe a few folks if you give them salary.
This is good news, people are going to read this and say, hey, you mean your oneiskcon gurus are less than sudras, OK see ya later, I am leaving (just like everyone else ALREADY left). They are actually making an advertising against ISKCON, hey our gurus are totally bogus over here, do not bother to come over to this religion! And guess what, their temples are empty, its working! Notice that this is what happened in the Gaudiya Matha, as soon as they made bogus people into gurus, their place was a ghost town. ys pd
[PADA: Oh, oh, here we go again, Danavir's site is once again saying that Lord Krishna's successor acharyas are always falling down into: Illicit sex, drugs, criminal behavior, guru tyagi, guru aparadha, less than sudra behavior, watching cheer leader's dancing on TV football, watching porno in their motorhomes, less than dog behavior, and so on.
No wonder their temples are empty?
(Q.) Who wants to worship less than sudras as gurus, or even less than dog's behavior?
(A.) Probably nobody, ok maybe a few folks if you give them salary.
This is good news, people are going to read this and say, hey, you mean your oneiskcon gurus are less than sudras, OK see ya later, I am leaving (just like everyone else ALREADY left). They are actually making an advertising against ISKCON, hey our gurus are totally bogus over here, do not bother to come over to this religion! And guess what, their temples are empty, its working! Notice that this is what happened in the Gaudiya Matha, as soon as they made bogus people into gurus, their place was a ghost town. ys pd
How Akshaya Patra Feeds 1.3m Children Daily
http://youtu.be/6C5E5nzL6_4
ISKCON Times
Bangalore
Hare Krishna,
Adiga’s donates Rs 18.25 lakhs to Akshaya Patra
Vasudev Adiga’s, a restaurant chain in Karnataka, initiated campaign a month ago to raise funds to feed children of government schools. As a part of the same campaign, Vasudev Adiga’s donated Rs 18.25 lakhs to The Akshaya Patra Foundation.
Mysore temple to distribute 2 lakh ladoos on New Year
The Sri Yoganarasimhaswamy temple authorities here will distribute over two lakh ladoos on January 1 to commemorate the beginning of the New Year.
Sri Uddharana datta Thakura Tirobhava tithi (disappearance day) - December 30, 2013
Uddharana Datta Thakura, the eleventh among the twelve cowherd boys, was an exalted devotee of Lord Nityananda Prabhu. He worshiped the lotus feet of Lord Nityananda in all respects.
Sri Mahesha Pandita Tirobhava tithi (disappearance day) - December 30, 2013
Mahesha Pandita joined the festival performed by Sri Nityananda Prabhu at Panihati. Narottama dasa Thakura also joined in the festival and Mahesha Pandita saw him on that occasion. In the temple of Mahesha Pandita there are Deities of Gaura-Nityananda, Sri Gopinatha, Sri Madana-mohana and Radha-Govinda, as well as a salagrama-sila.
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Online Team
ISKCON TimesSunday, December 29, 2013
ISKCON Friendly Folks Waking Up! (ISKCON Leicester UK)
[PADA: The rebellion is inside the gates of the GBC's city now, hee hee! ys pd]
From ISKCON Leicester's UK web site:
"There is no new blood in this organization, things have become stagnated and dry, not dynamic and the offense of neglecting all their God brothers by excluding them from their spiritual birthright, they will have to answer to Srila Prabhupada for this aparadha"
http://www.prasadam.co.uk/articles/389-i-can-stay-100-years-many-times.html
From ISKCON Leicester's UK web site:
"There is no new blood in this organization, things have become stagnated and dry, not dynamic and the offense of neglecting all their God brothers by excluding them from their spiritual birthright, they will have to answer to Srila Prabhupada for this aparadha"
http://www.prasadam.co.uk/articles/389-i-can-stay-100-years-many-times.html
Saturday, December 28, 2013
Srila Prabhupada writes about Sridhara Maharaja
Sridhara Maharaja Helps GBC Gurus: http://youtu.be/oFjove-LKKE
http://www.iskcontimes.com/analysis-of-srila-prabhupada%E2%80%99s-letter-to-rupanuga%20
Srila Prabhupada: You are right about Sridhara Maharaja's genuineness. But in my opinion he is the best of the lot. He is my old friend, at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service. I do not wish to discuss about activities of my Godbrothers but it is a fact they have no life for preaching work. ALL ARE SATISFIED WITH A PLACE FOR RESIDENCE IN THE NAME OF A TEMPLE, THEY ENGAGE DISCIPLES TO GET FOODSTUFF BY TRANSCENDENTAL DEVICES AND EAT AND SLEEP.
http://www.iskcontimes.com/analysis-of-srila-prabhupada%E2%80%99s-letter-to-rupanuga%20
Srila Prabhupada: You are right about Sridhara Maharaja's genuineness. But in my opinion he is the best of the lot. He is my old friend, at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service. I do not wish to discuss about activities of my Godbrothers but it is a fact they have no life for preaching work. ALL ARE SATISFIED WITH A PLACE FOR RESIDENCE IN THE NAME OF A TEMPLE, THEY ENGAGE DISCIPLES TO GET FOODSTUFF BY TRANSCENDENTAL DEVICES AND EAT AND SLEEP.
They have no idea or brain how to broacast the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. My Guru Maharaja used to lament many times for this reason and he thought if one man at least had understood the principle of preaching then his mission would achieve success. In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja he was very disgusted. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more years.
Still he requested his disciples to form a strong Governing body for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math.
BUT SRIDHARA MAHARAJA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DISOBEYING THIS ORDER OF GURU MAHARAJA, AND HE AND OTHERS WHO ARE ALREADY DEAD UNNECESSARILY THOUGHT THAT THERE MUST BE ONE ACARYA.
IF GURU MAHARAJA COULD HAVE SEEN SOMEONE WHO WAS QUALIFIED AT THAT TIME TO BE ACARYA HE WOULD HAVE MENTIONED. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. HIS IDEA WAS ACARYA WAS NOT TO BE NOMINATED AMONGST THE GOVERNING BODY.
He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to be acarya even though they may be kanistha adhikari with no ability to preach. In some of the camps the acarya is being changed three times a year.
THEREFORE WE MAY NOT COMMIT THE SAME MISTAKE IN OUR ISKCON CAMP. ACTUALLY AMONGST MY GODBROTHERS NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO BECOME ACARYA. SO IT IS BETTER NOT TO MIX WITH MY GODBROTHERS VERY INTIMATELY BECAUSE INSTEAD OF INSPIRING OUR STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES, THEY MAY SOMETIMES POLLUTE THEM.
IF GURU MAHARAJA COULD HAVE SEEN SOMEONE WHO WAS QUALIFIED AT THAT TIME TO BE ACARYA HE WOULD HAVE MENTIONED. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. HIS IDEA WAS ACARYA WAS NOT TO BE NOMINATED AMONGST THE GOVERNING BODY.
He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to be acarya even though they may be kanistha adhikari with no ability to preach. In some of the camps the acarya is being changed three times a year.
THEREFORE WE MAY NOT COMMIT THE SAME MISTAKE IN OUR ISKCON CAMP. ACTUALLY AMONGST MY GODBROTHERS NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO BECOME ACARYA. SO IT IS BETTER NOT TO MIX WITH MY GODBROTHERS VERY INTIMATELY BECAUSE INSTEAD OF INSPIRING OUR STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES, THEY MAY SOMETIMES POLLUTE THEM.
This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them.
[PADA: OK "THEY" would include Sridhara Maharaja.]
===================================
Dear Puranjana. Pamho agt Srila Prabhupada.
Another interesting point regarding the letter you quoted from Srila Prabhupada to Rupanuga from 28th April 1974 in relationship to Sridhara Maharaja.
Srila Prabhupada: "You are right about Sridhar Maharaj's genuineness. But in my opinion he is the best of the lot. He is my old friend, at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service". I must say this statement of Srila Prabhupada really confused me for many years. He seemed to be making the point that Sridhar Maharaj was genuine and that he's the best of the lot and yet in the next breath he seems to be speaking sarcastically by saying "at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service".
This seeming contradiction lodged within my mind, and did not surface until many years later at a time when I was visiting Alachua with Jitarati and my wife Lokadrsti. Jitarati wanted to meet with Rupanuga so I took the opportunity to accompany him. During our discussions with him "this seeming contradiction" that had been stored up for many years in my mind resurfaced. So I took the opportunity and asked Rupanuga to kindly clear up my confusion.
Rupanuga said that In early 1974 he visited the Asrama of Sridhar Maharaj. He spent some time there and his realizations were very clear and strong about what was going on there. He stated that Sridhar Maharaja was trying to attract devotees away from Srila Prabhupada and Iskcon and over to himself. After crossing the Ganges and returning to the Iskcon Mayapura centre this fact was transmitted to Srila Prabhupada by mail.
Now for me the mystery was unraveled. Without insight into what Rupanuga had personally observed at Sridhar Maharaj's asrama and without knowing what he had conveyed to Srila Prabhupada by mail one would be excused thinking that when Srila Prabhupada said in his response to RUPANUGA "You are right about Sridhara Maharaj's genuineness" that he meant that Sridhara Maharaja was genuine.
This of course is not the case. Rupanuga had made it clear to Srila Prabhupada that Sridhara Mahararaj was going against vaisnava etiquete and he was not acting as a genuine well wisher of Srila Prabhupada or Iskcon. Thus one can understand that when Prabhupada said "you are right about Sridhar Maharaja's genuineness" he was referring to the lack of it. "Srila Prabhupada said "He's genuine and the best of the lot" (many ex Iskcon Sridhar followers would say) This very unfortunate misunderstanding is one of the main reasons so many Iskcon devotees went over to Sridhara Maharaj's camp.
Your servant
Kamsahanta dasa
[PADA: OK "THEY" would include Sridhara Maharaja.]
===================================
Dear Puranjana. Pamho agt Srila Prabhupada.
Another interesting point regarding the letter you quoted from Srila Prabhupada to Rupanuga from 28th April 1974 in relationship to Sridhara Maharaja.
Srila Prabhupada: "You are right about Sridhar Maharaj's genuineness. But in my opinion he is the best of the lot. He is my old friend, at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service". I must say this statement of Srila Prabhupada really confused me for many years. He seemed to be making the point that Sridhar Maharaj was genuine and that he's the best of the lot and yet in the next breath he seems to be speaking sarcastically by saying "at least he executes the regulative principles of devotional service".
This seeming contradiction lodged within my mind, and did not surface until many years later at a time when I was visiting Alachua with Jitarati and my wife Lokadrsti. Jitarati wanted to meet with Rupanuga so I took the opportunity to accompany him. During our discussions with him "this seeming contradiction" that had been stored up for many years in my mind resurfaced. So I took the opportunity and asked Rupanuga to kindly clear up my confusion.
Rupanuga said that In early 1974 he visited the Asrama of Sridhar Maharaj. He spent some time there and his realizations were very clear and strong about what was going on there. He stated that Sridhar Maharaja was trying to attract devotees away from Srila Prabhupada and Iskcon and over to himself. After crossing the Ganges and returning to the Iskcon Mayapura centre this fact was transmitted to Srila Prabhupada by mail.
Now for me the mystery was unraveled. Without insight into what Rupanuga had personally observed at Sridhar Maharaj's asrama and without knowing what he had conveyed to Srila Prabhupada by mail one would be excused thinking that when Srila Prabhupada said in his response to RUPANUGA "You are right about Sridhara Maharaj's genuineness" that he meant that Sridhara Maharaja was genuine.
This of course is not the case. Rupanuga had made it clear to Srila Prabhupada that Sridhara Mahararaj was going against vaisnava etiquete and he was not acting as a genuine well wisher of Srila Prabhupada or Iskcon. Thus one can understand that when Prabhupada said "you are right about Sridhar Maharaja's genuineness" he was referring to the lack of it. "Srila Prabhupada said "He's genuine and the best of the lot" (many ex Iskcon Sridhar followers would say) This very unfortunate misunderstanding is one of the main reasons so many Iskcon devotees went over to Sridhara Maharaj's camp.
Your servant
Kamsahanta dasa
PADA is "a radical nut job"?
Puranjana: Hare Krishna a devotee named Krishna Kirtan writes this: WHICH CONCLUSION DO YOU SUBSCRIBE TO? A WORD ON CONTROLLED OPPOSITION: THE SO CALLED TRUTH TELLERS And then there are the likes of those like Tim Lee (PADA, Puranjana, and others) whose job is to radicalize the message (indirectly or directly) and make anyone who knows what's going on look like lunatics, and at the same time they act like they are representing the group of awakened individuals. These so-called truth tellers are also never ready to offer any type of tangible and sensible solutions, but only more and more hate. They are there to simply add to the division and the destruction, so instead of working to destroy from within like the others, they do do it from the outside. Two sides of the same coin, that's all. Where are the spiritual solutions being championed by these so called truth tellers? That barely happens with them. Often everything seems to be continuously about problems,
[PADA: Great stuff except, Krishna Kirtan now says -- he agrees with me on -- the bogus guru appointment; He (apparently at least) agrees with me that I was right to protest the child molesting; He agrees with me I was right to protest the books being changed; He agrees with me that there is a poison complaint; He agrees with me on really, just about everything I have been writing and saying all along since 1978? And really, he is practically like my twin brother? I have no idea what he disagrees with me on? Nor has he ever told me once what he does not agree with me on? If he has a specific issue he does not agree with, what is it? I honestly do not have a clue, almost everything Krishna Kirtan writes is basically a carbon copy what I wrote 20 years ago. He protests our stuff, then repeats our stuff exactly? I am as baffled as you are. ys pd]
The Child Molesting Issue (update) 12/28/13
[PADA: Yes prabhu, the Prahlad team's newest authority and high priest "Bhakta das" was arrested for selling $6,000,000 worth of designer drugs in the USA, drugs that cause people to commit all kinds of crimes, go crazy, literally lose their minds (suffer nerve and brain damage) and suffer in so many ways no one can count. He made money by causing suffering to others. Later he was arrested in Puri, India where he spent six years in prison. He is one of the foremost opponents of the worship of Srila Prabhupada idea, saying this is cancer. And that is why Prahlad team has annointed Bhakta das as their new spokesman, great minds think alike. Here are some of the India newspaper accounts:
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2005-05-05/india/27864266_1_extradition-plea-bail-plea-iskcon
================================
Drug 'Dracula' held for Orissa gangrape
Ashutosh Mishra / Bhubaneswar
http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?m...t&counter_img=6
"Drug Dracula" William George Benedict alias Bhakta Das, currently lodged in Tihar jail and high on the wanted list of American government, had a dark past in Puri, where he was arrested in a gangrape case nearly five years ago.
Das, who was then living in the holy town, had been accused of sexually assaulting Tulsi, the minor daughter of a Austrian woman, Maria Shcmidova, along with seven others. Later, Das and others were acquitted by the court for want of evidence. The case had caused a sensation in the state.
Benedict alias Das, who might have been even sentenced to death for his offences in the US, sneaked into India, probably towards the end of 1999, just before the authorities in US decided to arrest him in January 2000, before a Maryland court. He lodged himself in Orissa and Bengal as an Iskcon devotee, who wanted to preach the Krishna cult.
===============================
[PADA: Thanks, yes when I said there is a mass child molesting program, people like the GBC's ilk and / or the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Pancali types, said "Puranjan is a liar," and that is how they caused all the molesting to take place in the first place. Correct. And they still say we are liars because they are proud that their policy of calling us liars -- caused all this child molesting.]
G: Thats very good Prahlad; its nice to see you quoting devotees instead of your quoting materialistic, meat-eating psychologists and psychopaths to hammer down your points. This a true sign of progress. If you ever need help unraveling the material knots in your life, just send me a line and I'll love to assist. Very good. but, your other perspiring thoughts on "poop smeller and bobo" (concepts from Bhakta das) must be rectified. Remember, Lord Krishna says, "Time I Am..." in that, in time you won't default to these childish attacks and quote even more devotees. Keep it up; gold star for the day.
[PADA: This is simply more proof that the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad team are STILL working with Bhakta das, and he is the one who now says the ritviks "have no guru," worship of Srila Prabhupada is "a cancer," and that we cannot criticize the GBC gurus because this is "poop smelling." Right, we need to have fools, idiots, deviants and perverts sitting in Srila Prabhupada's guru seat, all because -- anyone who protests and criticizes is "poop smelling." These people clearly do not want "the bad smell" to be removed from the Krishna religion. They have not learnt a thing since 1978, we cannot allow bogus messiahs to go on, they and their "bad smelling odors" have to be exposed.]
G: Earlier this year Prahlad you were cited for quoting a UCLA psychologist, who happens to eat hamburgers and carne asada; when caught by Puranjana, you deleted all these posts. Why? Tell us.
http://Krishna1008: Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad/ support Gaudiya Matha deviant acharyas program. In case someone figures out why there is not so much response - it is from these devotees.
krishna1008: How Bhakta das (William Benedict) ruined Krishna's name worldwide.
We used to believe that those who joined ISKCON are highly advanced and spiritual. Not any more. I knew you would start researching PADA / Krishna1008 blog more, so this is great. I was just getting there, and you assisted me. Wonderful. You failed to mention that you quoted Swarupa Hebel, who was citing the psychologist. Its ok Prahlad. calm down and carry on. but, keep posting PADA blogs. again, great progress.
P: Prabhu when did all this stuff PADA talking bad about Mukunda and Sanat, this started with the Turley Lawsuit?
G: You know the truth , now young chap. Puranjana pulled this quote from a post that you agreed with Swarupa Hebel's psychologist friend trying to diagnose Puranjana. this is the fact. When you were spotted indirectly quoting a meat-eating psychologist, you got in a tiff; just as we see here. What did you say, "I'm starting to agree with the psychologist." you even call him accurate above.
P: And supposedly Sanat wrote a letter that said that? I agree with PADA on the ritvik stance, but it is true that he does write things that are untrue, like saying Prahlad das is a Radhanatha supporter, etc. nothing could be further from the truth.
G: You know Prahlad that you said this previously, now you deny you said this, but that is ok. that is what the GBC does: says one thing, denies it, and ask for proof that they whimsically eliminated.
P: If PADA wrote many blogs naming me in things I have no dealings with I would probably be angry with him too. Prahlad is not a bogus guru, he and Mukunda do not deserve to be defamed.
G: Prahlad was quoted to say these things about a meat-eating psychologist diagnosing Puranjana. our original stance, was why does one need to consort with a materialist on a Vaisnava's behavior. that is when Prahlad got defensive. Worse, he still hasn't answered the question, and he has been snapping at Puranjana ever since.
[PADA: Correct, Prahlad is quoting mundane psychotherapists, never mind that, he supports Mukunda's web sites that promotes meat eating illuminati nut-case speakers, using guns, promoting animal hunters, anti-semites etc. Of course even the mundane psychologists agree with PADA -- that the GBC guru process is bogus and dangerous.]
P: I would also believe PADA if I did not know you Prahlad, but I know you are just a regular devotee, and I will always like Mukunda dasa because that is where I first saw Prabhupada was on Mukunda's youtube videos.
[PADA: Thats is great -- that Mukunda got a few people interested in Srila Prabhupada, of course if anyone else gets people interested in Srila Prabhupada like we are doing, then he attacks them. So he apparently thinks he is the exclusive gate keeper for Srila Prabhupada. That is the same idea the GBC gurus have.
And Krishna Kanta / IRM -- to some extent -- have the same disease. For example, the IRM publicly attacks us for promoting the poison issue, molesting issue and other criminal issues, because they think they are the exclusive agents of the truth -- and we are wrong to address these crimes. Sorry, the poison issue is going on all around them, its being accepted more and more, even by their own members.
Anyway, there are many other people who are preaching about Srila Prabhupada, and we should cooperate together with them. Sulochana said the people who oppose us are helping the bad guys, plain and simple. The GBC also -- somewhat -- leads people to Srila Prabhupada -- in some indirect way or other -- but then they think they are the only gate keepers. We should not be making a monopoly on preaching about Srila Prabhupada, we should encourage ALL others who want to do that. That is why we are having so much success, we have many ritvik programs going on all over the place, because we encourage all of them.]
G: One who chooses not to answer is hiding the truth; this is played out in all history. the only reason, "i'm a fool," because you rely on writings that seem to be lost or deleted. does this make me a fool? When i still know the truth, as do you (but you are failing to admit / commit). Ask PADA if he quoted a meat-eating psychologist on behalf of Vaisnava behaviour? Prahlad. you need a rest your anger, its incinerating your clarity. Hopefully, next time you'll reveal the truth instead of abstracting it.
P: Ok this is on my agenda. I am going to call Turley, and try to get info from the case sent to me. I will ask him if i can, or will find out if Prabhupad was named as knowing that these abuses were going on. Of course we know Prabhupad is innocent, but I just want to find out if he was named in the case as as purported, which would definitely be a defamation of Prabhupad's good name. I just emailed Windle Turley, I guess we will see if his secretary gets back to me. If i don't hear anything within a week I will write a hand written letter and/or call them directly.
[PADA: What I really said is that Prahlad always cites Sanat as an authority, and Sanat is making videos with Bhakta das, and Bhakta das is promoting Radhanath swami and many other GBC gurus. Bhakta das is also promoting Gaudiya Matha's gurus like BV Puri, who promotes GBC gurus like Gopal Krishna swami and others. Bhakta das is, in other words, supporting the people whose program molested the children.
This proves that the Prahlad team is still compromised with the molester guru program, they are STILL promoting its biggest current cheer leaders. Of course Bhakta das was arrested in Puri for allegedly child porn, and this is the Prahlad team's new spokesman / hero / guru / savior? Really? So they want to promote people who are arrested for alleged child porn, but not those of us who oppose all this child exploitation?
As for the complaints of the children, they are just quoting people like Bhakta das, he said these gurus were authorized by Srila Prabhupada. And now the Prahlad team is agreeing with Bhakta das, i.e. they are blaming Srila Prabhupada for causing all these problems.]
P: Of course Prabhupad never authorized them. Wow that's a lot of defendents in that law suit.
[PADA: So why are Prahlad / Sanat / Mukunda citing Bhakta das on their site, when they know he is promoting the GBC's gurus, the people who orchestrated all the molesting? That's all I asked. And if people like Bhakta das brain washed the children to claim that Srila Prabhupada authorized all these bogus gurus, then Bhakta das is in part responsible for the children thinking that Srila Prabhupada wanted all this.]
P: Its a damn shame that people ike Ravindra didnt get put in jail
[PADA: 1,000 children signed up, but only 500 children were allowed to stay on the suit, but another 1,000 might have signed up if they had kept the list going. In other words, there may have eventually been nearly 2,000 complaintants.]
P: Why were they not allowed to stay on?
[PADA: The problem at the time was -- there was a growing suicide epidemic. More could not sign on because there would not have been enough money, normally molested kids get a million dollars each, there was not going to be enough millions, so the list was cut off at 500.]
P: Incredible
[PADA: So we wanted to stop the suicides, and the lawsuit did that. After the lawsuit was filed the suicides dropped way off to almost nil. Whereas Sanat and Mukunda were saying the suicides are great, let em all die. Notice: they do not want that the perps should all die? They want the perps to live and have a huge party, only the victims need to die. What is that?]
P: But really i think you shouldn't write bad about Prahlad and Mukunda I feel, simply because they are just regular people like me. They are not supporting any bogus guru or anything. There's bigger fish to fry no?
[PADA: First of all, "regular and normal people" never say that molestation victims should be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs like this Prahlad group has said. And now they are back to promoting Bhakta das, who is with the people who just buried Kirtananada in a samadhi. That is also not "regular and normal," supporting the people who are propping up criminals and molesters as messiahs? Worse, they are promoting Bhakta das on their group's web site.]
P: I dont know who Bhakta das is.
[PADA: Bhakta das is a GBC guru lover.]
P: Oh come on they are just normal people they don't want suicides come on. I don't believe that.
[PADA: Why do they say still today -- that they did not want the suicides to stop because they oppose the Turley suit? The Turley suit stopped the suicides, and they are STILL TO THIS DAY saying that is horrible, its horrible that children lived? And Bhakta das is the good guy, because he promotes the molester messiahs program? They are upset because we exposed the gurus whom Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad were all worshiping and supporting, and the grevious manner their program treated these children.]
P: Yeah I think alot of this is just misunderstanding, we are all reasonable people we should be able to come to a good conclusion
[PADA: Well now they are supporting GBC guru lover club leader, Bhakta das, why?]
P: Where exactly are they supporting Bhakta Das?
[PADA: Bhakta das is well known to be a total GBC guru supporter and he supports Radhanatha. Its on the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Pancali program's videos, their hero Muktipada made a video interviewing Bhakta das, and they are promoting him. And they have a huge thing on their web site saying we are living in a trailer park -- getting food stamps and etc. hee hee, they are going crazy. Why are they speculating like this? So now they are saying, people on food stamps are way more advanced than they are, because at least the food stamps folks know that molester guru programs are bad and have to be exposed?]
P: Question: Were ISKCON devotees who had children REQUIRED to give their children to the gurukula boarding schools?
[PADA: Not required, I kept my kids out and never put them in there. That is what Sanat and Mukunda should be doing instead of promoting Bhakta das, the person who brain washed the children, they should be working with us to clear all this up. Sanat also does not attend the Rathayatras anymore because some of the ex-kids said they'd not be happy if they ever see him again, since he said he has said he wanted their suicides. The ex-kulis basically hate these guys.]
G: This has been our whole stance: to help them by helping You clear this up; but, ones like Prahlad keep vilifying You, making it extremely difficult to make progress.
[PADA: Also Muktipada, their site editor, wrote me that he is having a discussion with his "second life avatar" -- he is talking to his video games? I think these people are having a meltdown ... Sanat said he wanted to "kick in the teeth" of Srila Prabhupada's children, so what happened next was, his post hole digger hit a rock and it crushed his whole face in, including all of his teeth. His entire head is now stitched and wired together and the doctor told him if you ever get hit in the head again, you may die. My friend saw his mashed up face at the time, he said its a miracle Sanat even lived. So they wanted to kick Srila Prabhupada's children in the teeth, and they got kicked in the teeth.
P: I dont really know this Steven Voith person anyways,
[PADA: He is Sanat, and his writings are still found on Mukunda's site. And Prahlad says he is with Sanat, and Pancali says she is with Prahlad, birds of a feather.]
P: I am reading the Turley pdf now, wow
[PADA: Yes, its pretty heavy, also when I was negotiating with Turley and some of the kids, at that time Sanat and Mukunda sent Turley an e-mail saying they wanted the children to be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs, so then Dallas folks said I could not discuss with the kids anymore, since they were getting death threats. Sanat and Mukunda stopped my negotiations by sending a death threat to the kids. This was no doubt recorded in the Dallas court documents, that the kids are now being threatened with death.]
P: Where could I find that? If it is in court documents that should be able to be found somewhere....
Wow the turley pdf...wow... Did any of these bogus guru defendents go to jail for any of this due to the result of this case or other similar ones? I am going through it because i am just curious about this, ive nver gone though it before.
[PADA: Good. Well since Sanat and Mukunda wrote to Turley that the ISKCON children need to be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs, I am sure that is still in their Dallas court documents and records. This was also sent to the FBI by me at the time, so it in their records. And I also sent a copy of their death threats to these ISKCON children to the Angelica New York Police department, where Sanat lives, probably that document is still in their records.
Anyway, the suit did stop the suicides almost totally, and that was the whole aim and object, we wanted these kids not to die. The people who wanted these kids to be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs wanted them to die, and they are angry some were saved, its that simple. And that is why Sanat no longer attends festivals, after saying he wanted to kill these children, they are looking for him at these festivals.]
G: Prahlad, do you really think Prabhupada approves of His children committing suicide? no. anyway, because Puranjana is fully surrendered to Prabhupada, His actions are sanctified by Prabhupada; he is doing the work Prabhupada has laid out for him since his initiation in the early 70s. we can still help you from anger and lust if you ever want it. Who else was there to make sure Prabhupada's children didn't commit suicide? no one. again, this was all sanctified.
[PADA: Yes, and this is why Sanat's face was bashed in with a post hold digger, he said he wanted to kick Srila Prabhupada's children in the teeth, so his whole head was kicked in. Now he is promoting Bhakta das, one of the persons who mislead the children. Yes, that is why, when Sanat and Mukunda wrote that these children need to be killed and chopped up, they are misrepresenting Srila Prabhupada. That was never the mood of Srila Prabhupada, ever. Where does Krishna and Srila Prabhupada say their children need to be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs? These folks are totally mis-representing Krishna and His idea of how to treat children.
Mukunda is still citing Sanat as his authority. And Prahlad says that he is with Sanat and Mukunda's view on this issue, so he also favors the suicides program. And the statement that the children need to be chopped up is a joint statement from Sanat and Mukunda, because Mukunda posted it on his site. Yep, chop em up, kill em. And lets save the perps.]
P: Well this Turley lawsuit makes ISKCON look very bad, but of course its not the lawsuits fault its the evil people that corrupted ISKCONs fault. ISKCON is in shambles even before the lawsuit.
[PADA: Thats right, we agreed to that, what the lawsuit did was to stop the suicides, that is what it did. So they wanted ISKCON to look worse, they wanted it to look like a child suicide program. They wanted the headlines of the "New York Times" to be, "ISKCON children's suicide epidemic," and they told me that is what they wanted at the time. They wanted the children suicides to get way worse, they told me that at the time, and they still wanted that, they are still saying we were wrong to curb the suicides, they want to see dead children, or what?]
P: Well yes better something (saving the children) is better than nothing
[PADA: Right, it was a rock and a hard place situation, we chose the hard place vs dying on the rocks. Sanat and Mukunda wanted them to die on the rocks. And they still do ... no change in attitude ever, they are still not happy that children did not die. And now Sanat is promoting Bhakta das, the cheer leader of the GBC gurus?]
P: just skimmed through the Turley PDF, from what i saw Prabhupad is not being blamed for anything there, the gurukula teachers, supervisors, bogus people like Keith Ham, etc are being blamed..... from what i could see in that pdf from here http://www.harekrsna.org/gurupoison/support/turley-case.pdf
[PADA: In any case, the Turley case was an emergency situation, the children were committing suicide. After the case was filed, the suicides dropped to almost nil. Before we can do anything else, we have to stop the bleeding, otherwise, the patients will die. And for Sanat and Mukunda to be posting an open letter on their site, and sending that letter to the New York Times, the Dallas law firm etc., saying that the ISKCON children needed to be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs, simply astonished people at the time for being so heartless and cruel to the victims, at the same time, not calling for any action to be taken against the perps.
Clearly theirs was a view that favored the perps and stepped jack boots all over the victims. That is why many of the ex-kulis got so angry with the Sanat / Mukunda team at the time, they were attacking these children victims in order to save the GBC gurus and perps.
And that is why Sanat avoids going to places where the kulis are now, the kulis hate his guts because they know he was publicly calling for them to die. Of course now that we see they are compromised with Bhakta das, this is all starting to make sense, they are compromisers with the victimizers. At the same time, Bhakta das was arrested for alleged child porn in Puri India, and is this the guy they want as their public spokesman? Yes, people who are arrested for alleged child porn are the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahald gurus, speakers and authorities, plain and simple. They have surrendered there. Anyway thanks for letting me clear this up, ys pd]
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2005-05-05/india/27864266_1_extradition-plea-bail-plea-iskcon
================================
Drug 'Dracula' held for Orissa gangrape
Ashutosh Mishra / Bhubaneswar
http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?m...t&counter_img=6
"Drug Dracula" William George Benedict alias Bhakta Das, currently lodged in Tihar jail and high on the wanted list of American government, had a dark past in Puri, where he was arrested in a gangrape case nearly five years ago.
Das, who was then living in the holy town, had been accused of sexually assaulting Tulsi, the minor daughter of a Austrian woman, Maria Shcmidova, along with seven others. Later, Das and others were acquitted by the court for want of evidence. The case had caused a sensation in the state.
Benedict alias Das, who might have been even sentenced to death for his offences in the US, sneaked into India, probably towards the end of 1999, just before the authorities in US decided to arrest him in January 2000, before a Maryland court. He lodged himself in Orissa and Bengal as an Iskcon devotee, who wanted to preach the Krishna cult.
===============================
[PADA: Thanks, yes when I said there is a mass child molesting program, people like the GBC's ilk and / or the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Pancali types, said "Puranjan is a liar," and that is how they caused all the molesting to take place in the first place. Correct. And they still say we are liars because they are proud that their policy of calling us liars -- caused all this child molesting.]
G: Thats very good Prahlad; its nice to see you quoting devotees instead of your quoting materialistic, meat-eating psychologists and psychopaths to hammer down your points. This a true sign of progress. If you ever need help unraveling the material knots in your life, just send me a line and I'll love to assist. Very good. but, your other perspiring thoughts on "poop smeller and bobo" (concepts from Bhakta das) must be rectified. Remember, Lord Krishna says, "Time I Am..." in that, in time you won't default to these childish attacks and quote even more devotees. Keep it up; gold star for the day.
[PADA: This is simply more proof that the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad team are STILL working with Bhakta das, and he is the one who now says the ritviks "have no guru," worship of Srila Prabhupada is "a cancer," and that we cannot criticize the GBC gurus because this is "poop smelling." Right, we need to have fools, idiots, deviants and perverts sitting in Srila Prabhupada's guru seat, all because -- anyone who protests and criticizes is "poop smelling." These people clearly do not want "the bad smell" to be removed from the Krishna religion. They have not learnt a thing since 1978, we cannot allow bogus messiahs to go on, they and their "bad smelling odors" have to be exposed.]
G: Earlier this year Prahlad you were cited for quoting a UCLA psychologist, who happens to eat hamburgers and carne asada; when caught by Puranjana, you deleted all these posts. Why? Tell us.
http://Krishna1008: Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad/ support Gaudiya Matha deviant acharyas program. In case someone figures out why there is not so much response - it is from these devotees.
krishna1008: How Bhakta das (William Benedict) ruined Krishna's name worldwide.
We used to believe that those who joined ISKCON are highly advanced and spiritual. Not any more. I knew you would start researching PADA / Krishna1008 blog more, so this is great. I was just getting there, and you assisted me. Wonderful. You failed to mention that you quoted Swarupa Hebel, who was citing the psychologist. Its ok Prahlad. calm down and carry on. but, keep posting PADA blogs. again, great progress.
P: Prabhu when did all this stuff PADA talking bad about Mukunda and Sanat, this started with the Turley Lawsuit?
G: You know the truth , now young chap. Puranjana pulled this quote from a post that you agreed with Swarupa Hebel's psychologist friend trying to diagnose Puranjana. this is the fact. When you were spotted indirectly quoting a meat-eating psychologist, you got in a tiff; just as we see here. What did you say, "I'm starting to agree with the psychologist." you even call him accurate above.
P: And supposedly Sanat wrote a letter that said that? I agree with PADA on the ritvik stance, but it is true that he does write things that are untrue, like saying Prahlad das is a Radhanatha supporter, etc. nothing could be further from the truth.
G: You know Prahlad that you said this previously, now you deny you said this, but that is ok. that is what the GBC does: says one thing, denies it, and ask for proof that they whimsically eliminated.
P: If PADA wrote many blogs naming me in things I have no dealings with I would probably be angry with him too. Prahlad is not a bogus guru, he and Mukunda do not deserve to be defamed.
G: Prahlad was quoted to say these things about a meat-eating psychologist diagnosing Puranjana. our original stance, was why does one need to consort with a materialist on a Vaisnava's behavior. that is when Prahlad got defensive. Worse, he still hasn't answered the question, and he has been snapping at Puranjana ever since.
[PADA: Correct, Prahlad is quoting mundane psychotherapists, never mind that, he supports Mukunda's web sites that promotes meat eating illuminati nut-case speakers, using guns, promoting animal hunters, anti-semites etc. Of course even the mundane psychologists agree with PADA -- that the GBC guru process is bogus and dangerous.]
P: I would also believe PADA if I did not know you Prahlad, but I know you are just a regular devotee, and I will always like Mukunda dasa because that is where I first saw Prabhupada was on Mukunda's youtube videos.
[PADA: Thats is great -- that Mukunda got a few people interested in Srila Prabhupada, of course if anyone else gets people interested in Srila Prabhupada like we are doing, then he attacks them. So he apparently thinks he is the exclusive gate keeper for Srila Prabhupada. That is the same idea the GBC gurus have.
And Krishna Kanta / IRM -- to some extent -- have the same disease. For example, the IRM publicly attacks us for promoting the poison issue, molesting issue and other criminal issues, because they think they are the exclusive agents of the truth -- and we are wrong to address these crimes. Sorry, the poison issue is going on all around them, its being accepted more and more, even by their own members.
Anyway, there are many other people who are preaching about Srila Prabhupada, and we should cooperate together with them. Sulochana said the people who oppose us are helping the bad guys, plain and simple. The GBC also -- somewhat -- leads people to Srila Prabhupada -- in some indirect way or other -- but then they think they are the only gate keepers. We should not be making a monopoly on preaching about Srila Prabhupada, we should encourage ALL others who want to do that. That is why we are having so much success, we have many ritvik programs going on all over the place, because we encourage all of them.]
G: One who chooses not to answer is hiding the truth; this is played out in all history. the only reason, "i'm a fool," because you rely on writings that seem to be lost or deleted. does this make me a fool? When i still know the truth, as do you (but you are failing to admit / commit). Ask PADA if he quoted a meat-eating psychologist on behalf of Vaisnava behaviour? Prahlad. you need a rest your anger, its incinerating your clarity. Hopefully, next time you'll reveal the truth instead of abstracting it.
P: Ok this is on my agenda. I am going to call Turley, and try to get info from the case sent to me. I will ask him if i can, or will find out if Prabhupad was named as knowing that these abuses were going on. Of course we know Prabhupad is innocent, but I just want to find out if he was named in the case as as purported, which would definitely be a defamation of Prabhupad's good name. I just emailed Windle Turley, I guess we will see if his secretary gets back to me. If i don't hear anything within a week I will write a hand written letter and/or call them directly.
[PADA: What I really said is that Prahlad always cites Sanat as an authority, and Sanat is making videos with Bhakta das, and Bhakta das is promoting Radhanath swami and many other GBC gurus. Bhakta das is also promoting Gaudiya Matha's gurus like BV Puri, who promotes GBC gurus like Gopal Krishna swami and others. Bhakta das is, in other words, supporting the people whose program molested the children.
This proves that the Prahlad team is still compromised with the molester guru program, they are STILL promoting its biggest current cheer leaders. Of course Bhakta das was arrested in Puri for allegedly child porn, and this is the Prahlad team's new spokesman / hero / guru / savior? Really? So they want to promote people who are arrested for alleged child porn, but not those of us who oppose all this child exploitation?
As for the complaints of the children, they are just quoting people like Bhakta das, he said these gurus were authorized by Srila Prabhupada. And now the Prahlad team is agreeing with Bhakta das, i.e. they are blaming Srila Prabhupada for causing all these problems.]
P: Of course Prabhupad never authorized them. Wow that's a lot of defendents in that law suit.
[PADA: So why are Prahlad / Sanat / Mukunda citing Bhakta das on their site, when they know he is promoting the GBC's gurus, the people who orchestrated all the molesting? That's all I asked. And if people like Bhakta das brain washed the children to claim that Srila Prabhupada authorized all these bogus gurus, then Bhakta das is in part responsible for the children thinking that Srila Prabhupada wanted all this.]
P: Its a damn shame that people ike Ravindra didnt get put in jail
[PADA: 1,000 children signed up, but only 500 children were allowed to stay on the suit, but another 1,000 might have signed up if they had kept the list going. In other words, there may have eventually been nearly 2,000 complaintants.]
P: Why were they not allowed to stay on?
[PADA: The problem at the time was -- there was a growing suicide epidemic. More could not sign on because there would not have been enough money, normally molested kids get a million dollars each, there was not going to be enough millions, so the list was cut off at 500.]
P: Incredible
[PADA: So we wanted to stop the suicides, and the lawsuit did that. After the lawsuit was filed the suicides dropped way off to almost nil. Whereas Sanat and Mukunda were saying the suicides are great, let em all die. Notice: they do not want that the perps should all die? They want the perps to live and have a huge party, only the victims need to die. What is that?]
P: But really i think you shouldn't write bad about Prahlad and Mukunda I feel, simply because they are just regular people like me. They are not supporting any bogus guru or anything. There's bigger fish to fry no?
[PADA: First of all, "regular and normal people" never say that molestation victims should be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs like this Prahlad group has said. And now they are back to promoting Bhakta das, who is with the people who just buried Kirtananada in a samadhi. That is also not "regular and normal," supporting the people who are propping up criminals and molesters as messiahs? Worse, they are promoting Bhakta das on their group's web site.]
P: I dont know who Bhakta das is.
[PADA: Bhakta das is a GBC guru lover.]
P: Oh come on they are just normal people they don't want suicides come on. I don't believe that.
[PADA: Why do they say still today -- that they did not want the suicides to stop because they oppose the Turley suit? The Turley suit stopped the suicides, and they are STILL TO THIS DAY saying that is horrible, its horrible that children lived? And Bhakta das is the good guy, because he promotes the molester messiahs program? They are upset because we exposed the gurus whom Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad were all worshiping and supporting, and the grevious manner their program treated these children.]
P: Yeah I think alot of this is just misunderstanding, we are all reasonable people we should be able to come to a good conclusion
[PADA: Well now they are supporting GBC guru lover club leader, Bhakta das, why?]
P: Where exactly are they supporting Bhakta Das?
[PADA: Bhakta das is well known to be a total GBC guru supporter and he supports Radhanatha. Its on the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Pancali program's videos, their hero Muktipada made a video interviewing Bhakta das, and they are promoting him. And they have a huge thing on their web site saying we are living in a trailer park -- getting food stamps and etc. hee hee, they are going crazy. Why are they speculating like this? So now they are saying, people on food stamps are way more advanced than they are, because at least the food stamps folks know that molester guru programs are bad and have to be exposed?]
P: Question: Were ISKCON devotees who had children REQUIRED to give their children to the gurukula boarding schools?
[PADA: Not required, I kept my kids out and never put them in there. That is what Sanat and Mukunda should be doing instead of promoting Bhakta das, the person who brain washed the children, they should be working with us to clear all this up. Sanat also does not attend the Rathayatras anymore because some of the ex-kids said they'd not be happy if they ever see him again, since he said he has said he wanted their suicides. The ex-kulis basically hate these guys.]
G: This has been our whole stance: to help them by helping You clear this up; but, ones like Prahlad keep vilifying You, making it extremely difficult to make progress.
[PADA: Also Muktipada, their site editor, wrote me that he is having a discussion with his "second life avatar" -- he is talking to his video games? I think these people are having a meltdown ... Sanat said he wanted to "kick in the teeth" of Srila Prabhupada's children, so what happened next was, his post hole digger hit a rock and it crushed his whole face in, including all of his teeth. His entire head is now stitched and wired together and the doctor told him if you ever get hit in the head again, you may die. My friend saw his mashed up face at the time, he said its a miracle Sanat even lived. So they wanted to kick Srila Prabhupada's children in the teeth, and they got kicked in the teeth.
P: I dont really know this Steven Voith person anyways,
[PADA: He is Sanat, and his writings are still found on Mukunda's site. And Prahlad says he is with Sanat, and Pancali says she is with Prahlad, birds of a feather.]
P: I am reading the Turley pdf now, wow
[PADA: Yes, its pretty heavy, also when I was negotiating with Turley and some of the kids, at that time Sanat and Mukunda sent Turley an e-mail saying they wanted the children to be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs, so then Dallas folks said I could not discuss with the kids anymore, since they were getting death threats. Sanat and Mukunda stopped my negotiations by sending a death threat to the kids. This was no doubt recorded in the Dallas court documents, that the kids are now being threatened with death.]
P: Where could I find that? If it is in court documents that should be able to be found somewhere....
Wow the turley pdf...wow... Did any of these bogus guru defendents go to jail for any of this due to the result of this case or other similar ones? I am going through it because i am just curious about this, ive nver gone though it before.
[PADA: Good. Well since Sanat and Mukunda wrote to Turley that the ISKCON children need to be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs, I am sure that is still in their Dallas court documents and records. This was also sent to the FBI by me at the time, so it in their records. And I also sent a copy of their death threats to these ISKCON children to the Angelica New York Police department, where Sanat lives, probably that document is still in their records.
Anyway, the suit did stop the suicides almost totally, and that was the whole aim and object, we wanted these kids not to die. The people who wanted these kids to be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs wanted them to die, and they are angry some were saved, its that simple. And that is why Sanat no longer attends festivals, after saying he wanted to kill these children, they are looking for him at these festivals.]
G: Prahlad, do you really think Prabhupada approves of His children committing suicide? no. anyway, because Puranjana is fully surrendered to Prabhupada, His actions are sanctified by Prabhupada; he is doing the work Prabhupada has laid out for him since his initiation in the early 70s. we can still help you from anger and lust if you ever want it. Who else was there to make sure Prabhupada's children didn't commit suicide? no one. again, this was all sanctified.
[PADA: Yes, and this is why Sanat's face was bashed in with a post hold digger, he said he wanted to kick Srila Prabhupada's children in the teeth, so his whole head was kicked in. Now he is promoting Bhakta das, one of the persons who mislead the children. Yes, that is why, when Sanat and Mukunda wrote that these children need to be killed and chopped up, they are misrepresenting Srila Prabhupada. That was never the mood of Srila Prabhupada, ever. Where does Krishna and Srila Prabhupada say their children need to be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs? These folks are totally mis-representing Krishna and His idea of how to treat children.
Mukunda is still citing Sanat as his authority. And Prahlad says that he is with Sanat and Mukunda's view on this issue, so he also favors the suicides program. And the statement that the children need to be chopped up is a joint statement from Sanat and Mukunda, because Mukunda posted it on his site. Yep, chop em up, kill em. And lets save the perps.]
P: Well this Turley lawsuit makes ISKCON look very bad, but of course its not the lawsuits fault its the evil people that corrupted ISKCONs fault. ISKCON is in shambles even before the lawsuit.
[PADA: Thats right, we agreed to that, what the lawsuit did was to stop the suicides, that is what it did. So they wanted ISKCON to look worse, they wanted it to look like a child suicide program. They wanted the headlines of the "New York Times" to be, "ISKCON children's suicide epidemic," and they told me that is what they wanted at the time. They wanted the children suicides to get way worse, they told me that at the time, and they still wanted that, they are still saying we were wrong to curb the suicides, they want to see dead children, or what?]
P: Well yes better something (saving the children) is better than nothing
[PADA: Right, it was a rock and a hard place situation, we chose the hard place vs dying on the rocks. Sanat and Mukunda wanted them to die on the rocks. And they still do ... no change in attitude ever, they are still not happy that children did not die. And now Sanat is promoting Bhakta das, the cheer leader of the GBC gurus?]
P: just skimmed through the Turley PDF, from what i saw Prabhupad is not being blamed for anything there, the gurukula teachers, supervisors, bogus people like Keith Ham, etc are being blamed..... from what i could see in that pdf from here http://www.harekrsna.org/gurupoison/support/turley-case.pdf
[PADA: In any case, the Turley case was an emergency situation, the children were committing suicide. After the case was filed, the suicides dropped to almost nil. Before we can do anything else, we have to stop the bleeding, otherwise, the patients will die. And for Sanat and Mukunda to be posting an open letter on their site, and sending that letter to the New York Times, the Dallas law firm etc., saying that the ISKCON children needed to be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs, simply astonished people at the time for being so heartless and cruel to the victims, at the same time, not calling for any action to be taken against the perps.
Clearly theirs was a view that favored the perps and stepped jack boots all over the victims. That is why many of the ex-kulis got so angry with the Sanat / Mukunda team at the time, they were attacking these children victims in order to save the GBC gurus and perps.
And that is why Sanat avoids going to places where the kulis are now, the kulis hate his guts because they know he was publicly calling for them to die. Of course now that we see they are compromised with Bhakta das, this is all starting to make sense, they are compromisers with the victimizers. At the same time, Bhakta das was arrested for alleged child porn in Puri India, and is this the guy they want as their public spokesman? Yes, people who are arrested for alleged child porn are the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahald gurus, speakers and authorities, plain and simple. They have surrendered there. Anyway thanks for letting me clear this up, ys pd]
Prabhupadanugas Acquire 80 Acres For New Temple
Dear All,
It gives us a great pleasure to announce that a beautiful hillside property of 80 acres in the heart of Silicon Valley of California, USA, has been acquired for the future residence of Sri Sri Krishna Balaram, Sri Gaura Nitai, Sri Srinivasa Govinda, Sri Prahlada Narasimha and Srila Prabhupada.
The 80 acre hillside property is situated in the city of Milpitas and is at a comfortable and convenient distance from various corners of the bay area. The property located at 2425 Old Calaveras Road, Milpitas, CA is less than a mile from Milpitas city edge, 6 miles from Fremont and 15 miles from Cupertino. Though minutes away, the property oversees a major portion of the bay area and will provide breath taking views for the visiting devotees! The view is equivalent to being on top of a 40 to 50 story building. The property is surrounded by golf courses, scenic hills and is half a mile from Sandy Wool Lake and Ed Levin County Park.
It gives us a great pleasure to announce that a beautiful hillside property of 80 acres in the heart of Silicon Valley of California, USA, has been acquired for the future residence of Sri Sri Krishna Balaram, Sri Gaura Nitai, Sri Srinivasa Govinda, Sri Prahlada Narasimha and Srila Prabhupada.
The 80 acre hillside property is situated in the city of Milpitas and is at a comfortable and convenient distance from various corners of the bay area. The property located at 2425 Old Calaveras Road, Milpitas, CA is less than a mile from Milpitas city edge, 6 miles from Fremont and 15 miles from Cupertino. Though minutes away, the property oversees a major portion of the bay area and will provide breath taking views for the visiting devotees! The view is equivalent to being on top of a 40 to 50 story building. The property is surrounded by golf courses, scenic hills and is half a mile from Sandy Wool Lake and Ed Levin County Park.
Plans are in progress for a beautiful temple, a cultural complex, residences for devotees and a huge goshala. This will be a pride possession for Srila Prabhupada and his movement in the west. We seek all the devotees' prayers and good wishes to help us accomplish our plans.
We will keep you all updated about our progress on a regular basis.
Thanks one and all.
Yours in the service of Sri Krishna Balaram and Srila Prabhupada,
Vikram Krishna Das
President, Krishna Balaram Mandir - India Heritage Foundation, USA
Sri Krishna Balaram Mandir
India Heritage Foundation
1235 Reamwood Avenue
Sunnyvale California 94089
United States
www.kbmandir.org
India Heritage Foundation
1235 Reamwood Avenue
Sunnyvale California 94089
United States
www.kbmandir.org
Friday, December 27, 2013
Kshamabuddhi vs PADA RE:"Sridhara Maharaja"
[Dear PADA: Kshamabuddhi says he left ISKCON and surrendered to Sridhara Maharaja. And he still says that today.]
===========================
Khamabuddhi Dasa: You cannot judge anything. This is all cheap entertainment.... comedy theater...
PADA: I do not have to judge anything, Sridhara Maharaja said that 11 fools can "wear the guru uniform," that means, he has no respect for that uniform. As Srila Prabhupada says, you can dress a dog like a king, and put the dog on the king's throne with a golden crown, but as soon as you toss a bone, the dog jumps off the throne and goes for the bone. That means, you cannot dress a dog like a king, and then expect he will behave like a king, its foolishness, a concoction made by fools.
Sridhara Maharaja's 1936 guru went for both heterosex and homosex, that makes Sridhara the founder father of the worship of deviants as acharyas. And dissenters in 1940s were beaten and killed, just like we were beaten and killed by Sridhara's post-1977 gurus, and this is Kshamabuddhi's idea of "entertainment and comedy." Sridhara's victims are getting beaten, and killed. And its comedy hour theater, cheap entertainment for these people. Told ya! These fools think if you dress Satan like Jesus, then Satan becomes Jesus, even a five year old could defeat these idiots. ys pd
Kshamabuddhi Dasa: You are lying Puranjana. Sridhar Maharaja never said anything you claim he said. All is lies. you are the scum on the ISKCON septic system. See Puranjana, the 11 ritviks went to Sridhar Maharaja and told him that Prabhupada appointed them as gurus. Sridhar Maharaja didn't approve anything. He just tried to support what he was told Srila Prabhupada has ordered. Sridhar Maharaja had nothing to do with it. He just tried to support what Prabhupada wanted as he was told he wanted.
I will gladly debate Puranjana and any and all the ritviks anytime. Just let me know when you want to debate and I will shut you clowns down once and for all. Puranjana is such a vicious scoundrel that nobody will even bother to defeat the fool in a debate. Well, I will be glad to debate that reprobate derelict Puranjana anytime. You ritviks are defeated so easily that even a child could do it.
PADA: You have to read Sridhara's books and read his audio taped transcripts, such as his book "Sri Guru And his Grace." That book is made from the transcript of his talks with the GBC. He says in that book, "wear the guru uniform and it will show you what to do," and its in that book. The book also says acharyas go mad after money, women and followers. There are many other bogus statements like that, but never mind that, Srila Prabhupada says that Sridhara Maharaja is not qualified to be an acharya and that he is "very competant to harm our natural progress," and so -- he should be avoided.
And in 1977 Srila Prabhupada said Sridhara Maharaja is the founder of the "severe offenders" Bagh Bazaar party. And Srila Prabhupada says that Sridhara's 1936 guru is a bi-sexual deviant who had dissenters beaten and murdered. And when I challenged Jayatirtha in 1979, Sridhara Maharaja defended keeping Jayatirtha and he said "none should protest," I saw the transcript at the time. SM later defended keeping Ramesvara as guru in June of 1980, then he defended keeping Tamal and Hansadutta as gurus in December of 1980, and Satsvarupa circulated the tape of the GBC talking to Sridhara in early 1981, this tape was sent to all ISKCON temples.
In sum, SM said these deviants have to stay on as gurus. And SM was still propping up Hansadutta in 1985, I was there in Berkeley at the time. The devotees there also had many transcripts of their talks with Sridhara, he said to Hansadutta -- you have to stay in the guru seat, ask Hans if you have any doubts, Hansadutta was there.
I also got a boat load of transcripts way back in the 1980s myself with all these bogus statements, which I have reproduced over the years in my newsletters. And Sridhara says we came from the brahmajyoti, he is a mayavadi to boot! Kshamabuddhi could not even defend Sridhara's mayavadi quotes, where SM says we originated in brahmajyoti, that means he is a mayavadi, -- quotes which we gave way back in 1984, never mind anything else. And if Kshamabuddi agrees with Sridhara that we came from brahman, then Kshamabuddhi is a mayavada himself.
Srila Prabhupada says many of his God brothers thought we come from brahman because "they are tinged with mayavada." Anyway, wear the unform of a king, sit on a throne, what happens when we toss a bone? We already know, Sridhara's bogus gurus go for the bone.
Sridhara maharaja's bogus 1936 guru "homosex and everything" "sex and sex" (quoting Srila Prabhupada about Sridhara Maharaja and his bogus 1936 guru Ananta Vasudeva:) http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/.../sridhara-maharajas...
The child of Sridhara's guru was poisoned to death to "save the mission from scandal" because the child was asking about the wife of Ananta's Vasudeva's business as a prostitute. The child was going to expose that Ananata Vasudeva had married a prostitute, so he was killed. Nice comedy theater? Really!
Sridhara Maharaja was told that a dog was the king, so he said, put a king uniform on the dog and make him the king. (?) That is what we thought you were saying Kshamabuddhi. He did not inquire how these people became acharyas, he accepted the dog's saying they are kings without any verification? We did not accept, because we asked for verification. That means we know that dogs are not kings, and Sridhara does not.
And his 1936 guru problem was the same thing, he does not verify his acharyas.
Srimaya Das: Bogus gurus ALL OVER iskcon, IT IS A DISGRACE AND A FARCE!
===========================
Khamabuddhi Dasa: You cannot judge anything. This is all cheap entertainment.... comedy theater...
PADA: I do not have to judge anything, Sridhara Maharaja said that 11 fools can "wear the guru uniform," that means, he has no respect for that uniform. As Srila Prabhupada says, you can dress a dog like a king, and put the dog on the king's throne with a golden crown, but as soon as you toss a bone, the dog jumps off the throne and goes for the bone. That means, you cannot dress a dog like a king, and then expect he will behave like a king, its foolishness, a concoction made by fools.
Sridhara Maharaja's 1936 guru went for both heterosex and homosex, that makes Sridhara the founder father of the worship of deviants as acharyas. And dissenters in 1940s were beaten and killed, just like we were beaten and killed by Sridhara's post-1977 gurus, and this is Kshamabuddhi's idea of "entertainment and comedy." Sridhara's victims are getting beaten, and killed. And its comedy hour theater, cheap entertainment for these people. Told ya! These fools think if you dress Satan like Jesus, then Satan becomes Jesus, even a five year old could defeat these idiots. ys pd
Kshamabuddhi Dasa: You are lying Puranjana. Sridhar Maharaja never said anything you claim he said. All is lies. you are the scum on the ISKCON septic system. See Puranjana, the 11 ritviks went to Sridhar Maharaja and told him that Prabhupada appointed them as gurus. Sridhar Maharaja didn't approve anything. He just tried to support what he was told Srila Prabhupada has ordered. Sridhar Maharaja had nothing to do with it. He just tried to support what Prabhupada wanted as he was told he wanted.
I will gladly debate Puranjana and any and all the ritviks anytime. Just let me know when you want to debate and I will shut you clowns down once and for all. Puranjana is such a vicious scoundrel that nobody will even bother to defeat the fool in a debate. Well, I will be glad to debate that reprobate derelict Puranjana anytime. You ritviks are defeated so easily that even a child could do it.
PADA: You have to read Sridhara's books and read his audio taped transcripts, such as his book "Sri Guru And his Grace." That book is made from the transcript of his talks with the GBC. He says in that book, "wear the guru uniform and it will show you what to do," and its in that book. The book also says acharyas go mad after money, women and followers. There are many other bogus statements like that, but never mind that, Srila Prabhupada says that Sridhara Maharaja is not qualified to be an acharya and that he is "very competant to harm our natural progress," and so -- he should be avoided.
And in 1977 Srila Prabhupada said Sridhara Maharaja is the founder of the "severe offenders" Bagh Bazaar party. And Srila Prabhupada says that Sridhara's 1936 guru is a bi-sexual deviant who had dissenters beaten and murdered. And when I challenged Jayatirtha in 1979, Sridhara Maharaja defended keeping Jayatirtha and he said "none should protest," I saw the transcript at the time. SM later defended keeping Ramesvara as guru in June of 1980, then he defended keeping Tamal and Hansadutta as gurus in December of 1980, and Satsvarupa circulated the tape of the GBC talking to Sridhara in early 1981, this tape was sent to all ISKCON temples.
In sum, SM said these deviants have to stay on as gurus. And SM was still propping up Hansadutta in 1985, I was there in Berkeley at the time. The devotees there also had many transcripts of their talks with Sridhara, he said to Hansadutta -- you have to stay in the guru seat, ask Hans if you have any doubts, Hansadutta was there.
I also got a boat load of transcripts way back in the 1980s myself with all these bogus statements, which I have reproduced over the years in my newsletters. And Sridhara says we came from the brahmajyoti, he is a mayavadi to boot! Kshamabuddhi could not even defend Sridhara's mayavadi quotes, where SM says we originated in brahmajyoti, that means he is a mayavadi, -- quotes which we gave way back in 1984, never mind anything else. And if Kshamabuddi agrees with Sridhara that we came from brahman, then Kshamabuddhi is a mayavada himself.
Srila Prabhupada says many of his God brothers thought we come from brahman because "they are tinged with mayavada." Anyway, wear the unform of a king, sit on a throne, what happens when we toss a bone? We already know, Sridhara's bogus gurus go for the bone.
Sridhara maharaja's bogus 1936 guru "homosex and everything" "sex and sex" (quoting Srila Prabhupada about Sridhara Maharaja and his bogus 1936 guru Ananta Vasudeva:) http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/.../sridhara-maharajas...
The child of Sridhara's guru was poisoned to death to "save the mission from scandal" because the child was asking about the wife of Ananta's Vasudeva's business as a prostitute. The child was going to expose that Ananata Vasudeva had married a prostitute, so he was killed. Nice comedy theater? Really!
Sridhara Maharaja was told that a dog was the king, so he said, put a king uniform on the dog and make him the king. (?) That is what we thought you were saying Kshamabuddhi. He did not inquire how these people became acharyas, he accepted the dog's saying they are kings without any verification? We did not accept, because we asked for verification. That means we know that dogs are not kings, and Sridhara does not.
And his 1936 guru problem was the same thing, he does not verify his acharyas.
Srimaya Das: Bogus gurus ALL OVER iskcon, IT IS A DISGRACE AND A FARCE!
Ekadasi is Dec 29 And Other News
AM
Hare Krishna,
Saphala Ekadashi is on December 29, 2013Anyone who properly observes the glorious Saphala Ekadashi – even unknowingly, will become perfectly liberated at death and return to the spiritual abode of Vaikuntha.
Read More
Sri Uddharana Datta Thakura - Disappearance – December 30, 2013
Uddharana Datta Thakura, the eleventh among the twelve cowherd boys, was an exalted devotee of Lord Nityananda Prabhu. He worshiped the lotus feet of Lord Nityananda in all respects.
Read More
Sri Mahesha Pandita – Disappearance – December 30, 2013
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura writes in his Anubhashya, "The village of Mahesha Pandita, which is known as Palapada, is situated in the district of Nadia within a forest about one mile south of the Chakadaha railway station.
Read More
Sri Devananda Pandit – Disappearance, December 29, 2013
Sri Devananda Pandit used to live at Kuliya. He was a famous reciter of the Srimad Bhagavatam. One afternoon, hundreds of students were seated around Devananda Pandit, and Srivasa Pandita who was a very advanced devotee heard the sweet nectar of the Bhagavatam, he started to cry and roll on the ground.
Read More
Why Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed his life?
"Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us, but we are continuing the sinful activities." He told everyone, "Thou shalt not kill," but they are indulging in killing, thinking, "Lord Jesus Christ will excuse us and take all the sinful reactions."
Read More
Your Servants
Online Team
ISKCON Bangalore
Saphala Ekadashi is on December 29, 2013Anyone who properly observes the glorious Saphala Ekadashi – even unknowingly, will become perfectly liberated at death and return to the spiritual abode of Vaikuntha.
Read More
Sri Uddharana Datta Thakura - Disappearance – December 30, 2013
Uddharana Datta Thakura, the eleventh among the twelve cowherd boys, was an exalted devotee of Lord Nityananda Prabhu. He worshiped the lotus feet of Lord Nityananda in all respects.
Read More
Sri Mahesha Pandita – Disappearance – December 30, 2013
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura writes in his Anubhashya, "The village of Mahesha Pandita, which is known as Palapada, is situated in the district of Nadia within a forest about one mile south of the Chakadaha railway station.
Read More
Sri Devananda Pandit – Disappearance, December 29, 2013
Sri Devananda Pandit used to live at Kuliya. He was a famous reciter of the Srimad Bhagavatam. One afternoon, hundreds of students were seated around Devananda Pandit, and Srivasa Pandita who was a very advanced devotee heard the sweet nectar of the Bhagavatam, he started to cry and roll on the ground.
Read More
Why Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed his life?
"Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us, but we are continuing the sinful activities." He told everyone, "Thou shalt not kill," but they are indulging in killing, thinking, "Lord Jesus Christ will excuse us and take all the sinful reactions."
Read More
Your Servants
Online Team
ISKCON Bangalore
Thursday, December 26, 2013
Many Clips of the Poison Case Here
https://soundcloud.com/srila-bv-narayan-maharaja/sets/sppoi
[PADA: Thanks Isa prabhu for all this audio collection work. Includes Tamal speaking to Satsvarupa that "Srila Prabhupada wanted us to give him something to make him disappear." ys pd]
[PADA: Thanks Isa prabhu for all this audio collection work. Includes Tamal speaking to Satsvarupa that "Srila Prabhupada wanted us to give him something to make him disappear." ys pd]
Kshamabuddhi Types Do Not Get It?
PADA: OK folks like Kshamabuddhi never seem to get it? He says we are way too heavy, if not bullies, while the victims always complain to us, we are acting like little crybabies and are not nearly heavy enough to contain their abusers. He has apparently no idea -- or even vague concept-- of what the victims feel like. How do the victims feel when these folks say its a waste of time trying to save these victims? The victims are not save-able because its like fixing the entire USA government. No wonder some of them end up alienated from the religion, the message here is -- saving them is a waste of time. He also does not get it: A few of us renegades are not capable of saving a worldwide institution at this stage. Thus, we are FIRST of all saving a few individual people here and there, we may or may not save the entire institution. We are FIRST of all getting SOME individual people to give up on the false gurus and worship the real guru Srila Prabhupada. Eventually, those people can grow into a much larger group and form an institution LATER on when they are sufficient numbers. When the entire Titanic ship is sinking, yes, you may not save the entire ship and all the passengers with a few buckets. Yet! You can save SOME of the people in a few of the lifeboats with a few buckets. So the Kshamabuddhi idea has been -- to let the entire ship and all the life boats go down, just give up altogether in hopelessness -- because he never understood the princjple that you FIRST need to save A FEW individuals. Then later! Much later! You can discuss organizing those individuals into an institution, when you have enough people to organize something. Right now we have a very nice temple here in Sunnyvale, and we have already outgrown it, its WAY too small. We are going to have to get a MUCH bigger place and they are working on that. So, start small and build from there, we never said you could save the Entire Titanic all at once with a few buckets, we said, save a few people at least, then later, maybe much later, after you build that group up to a much larger group, then you can launch a new ship. Later on! That is why they say, the longest journey starts -- with the first step. ys pd
RE: Dressing Krishna Like Santa Claus
Dressing Radha Krishna as Santa and Mrs. Claus
is a Deviation
BY: KAMALAKANTA DAS
Every year around this time we see devotees circulate pictures of Radha Krishna deities dressed as Santa Claus and Mrs. Claus. As I read many of the comments on these pics I see many in opposition to this (which is good) but also many comments like,"Oh so cute", "Beautiful", etc. So the real questions that must be asked are as follows. First off, have any of our previous acharyas done this or have they instructed us to do this? The answer is obviously no! Here are two quotes from Srila Prabhupada that confirm this:
"The Deity worship should be done just in the way it was carried out in my presence."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, November 13, 1970)
[PADA: Correct, we have to offer the bhogha to Srila Prabhupada. That was the first thing the GBC changed, they started saying we need to offer bhogha to the 11 gurus. Thus, the offerings were not being accepted and people were eating bhogha, and they still are.]
"The greatest danger to our movement will come when we manufacture and create our own process for worshiping the deities." (Srila Prabhupada Letter, April 1, 1973)
Were Radha and Krishna ever dressed as Santa and Mrs. Claus along with reindeer etc. in Prabhupada's physical presence? Absolutely not! Whenever there is a question or doubt about our philosophy, whether it be jiva tattva, guru tattva, our sadhana or whatever it may be, the three consulting authorities are guru, sadhu and sastra. This is confirmed by Srila Prabhupada in this Bhagavatam purport.
[PADA: And that is one reason PADA editor was kicked out of ISKCON, for complaining that we cannot change the process of offering bhogha to the pure devotee.]
"Sadhu-sastra-guru: one has to test all spiritual matters according to the instructions of saintly persons, scriptures and the spiritual master. The spiritual master is one who follows the instructions of his predecessors, namely the sadhus, or saintly persons. A bona fide spiritual master does not mention anything not mentioned in the authorized scriptures. Ordinary people have to follow the instructions of sadhu, sastra and guru. Those statements made in the sastras and those made by the bona fide sadhu or guru cannot differ from one another." (Srimad Bhagavatam 4.16.1 Purport)
Has any Guru is our Gaudiya Parampara authorized this or spoken about this? Absolutely not! Again to make it clear he says, "One has to test all spiritual matters according to the instructions of saintly persons, scriptures and the spiritual master". The worship of Sri Murti is certainly a spiritual matter and part of our worship in vaidhi-bhakti, and also for one who has attained the platform of raganuga-bhakti. Srila Prabhupada has said the greatest danger to our movement is when we manufacture our own process for deity worship. So there is the opinion of Guru. Srila Prabhupada is Jagat Guru and the siksa Guru for the whole world.
[PADA: And when Jayatirtha was offering LSD and Hash-hish to his shalagram, the GBC said he has to stay and we have to go for protesting these deviations. The GBC protected these deity worship deviators.]
This dressing Radha and Krishna up as Santa and Mrs. Claus is certainly manufacturing our own process. What do sadhus say about this? Many sadhus have said this is not at all proper. I don't have any written statements, but I know H.H. Bhakti Vikasa Swami has spoken out against this and it is recorded on his website.
[PADA: Except that Bhakti Vikas swami is part of the group that has changed the offerings to make bhogha never become prasadam by offering bhogha to deviants.]
What does sastra, scripture say about this? Well, Bhagavatam is a scripture that predates Christianity, but in the eleventh canto in the section known as Uddhava Gita, Sri Krishna speaks elaborately about deity worship. To my knowledge there is no mention of Santa Claus outfits.
Sri Krishna is Svayam Bhagavan, the original Supreme Personality of Godhead and sarva jña, knower of past present and future, surely He would mention this if it was His desire. What about scripture written after the time of Christ, like Chaitanya-caritamrita, Chaitanya Bhagavat, Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu, Upadesamrita, Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu Bindhu? What about Jaiva Dharma and all of the other books of Bhaktivinode Thakur? No mention whatsoever about dressing the deity up as Santa Claus or any other non-Vedic religious figures, real or mythological. So we can conclude that according to guru, sadhu and sastra it is not bona fide.
The final question must be asked for those who dress Sri Murti up in this way and for those who like, relish, and approve of this. And that question is: whose pleasure is it for? Is it for Krishna's pleasure that you want to see Radha and Krishna dressed as Santa and Mrs. Claus, or is it for your pleasure? Our philosophy stresses this one concept, that by giving Krishna pleasure we experience bliss. What makes Radha and the gopis happy? Giving pleasure to Krishna. Their sentiment is that even if the distress caused by separation from Krishna gives Krishna pleasure, then so be it, that distress is satisfying. Our acharyas have explained to us what pleases Krishna. We follow their instructions Also what is the definition of suddha-bhakti, pure bhakti, the topmost platform of uttama bhakti?
anyabhilasita-sunyam
jnana-karmady-anavrtam
anukulyena krsnanu-
silanam bhaktir uttama
"Uttama bhakti is the cultivation of activities that are meant exclusively for the benefit of Sri Krsna, in other words, the uninterrupted flow of service to Him, performed through all endeavours of the body, mind, and speech, and through the expression of various bhavas (spiritual sentiments). It is not covered by jnana (knowledge aimed at impersonal liberation) and karma (reward-seeking activity), yoga or austerities; and it is completely free from all desires other than the aspiration to bring happiness to Krsna."
Can we really be following in the anugatya of Srila Rupa Goswami Prabhupada and our Rupanuga Guru Varga if we dress the deity according to our own whims and concoctions not sanctioned by our acharyas? I think not.
[PADA: Worse, people like Narayan Maharaja supported the bogus GBC's program of offering bhogha to persons engaged in illicit behaviors. And he said our idea, to continue the worship as it was, is a deviation. So he endorsed these changers.]
Some may say well, Srila Prabhupada accepted Christ as the Son of God and a pure devotee, so what is wrong with a Christmas theme for the deities? First off, Prabhupada never sanctioned Interfaith crossovers such as changing dress from dhotis to Franciscan Monk robes, or worshipping a murti of yoga Jesus, as what went on in New Vrindavan. Srila Prabhupada has ordered us to be intelligent enough to know who is deviating and what constitutes deviation from our siddhanta and practices.
[PADA: And in 1986, when Satsvarupa was writing that Kirtanananda is the purest person, and he is like Jesus, Narayan Maharaja was "teaching rasika" to that identical Satsvarupa group.]
A devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating. Surrender by your intelligence, but don't surrender your intelligence." (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Bali Mardana, 1974)
Secondly, there is a movement among Christians to put Christ back in Christmas. They feel Santa Claus has little or nothing to do with Christmas and the focus has shifted to Santa and materialism, giving and receiving gifts and not celebrating the birth of Christ. Who was Santa Claus aka St. Nicholas? I am not gonna go into a long story, but in short, he was a Christian saint from the Fourth Century. He embodied the spirit of charity and giving. He was persecuted and imprisoned by the Roman Empire.
Aside from being charitable and doing mundane welfare work, what was his character? Was he a meat eater? Most likely he was a meat eater. What is the Santa we know today? He has been elevated to mythical status with all sorts of mystical powers. To top it off, that trademark red and white costume he wears are actually from a 1931 ad campaign by Coca Cola. The red and white are the corporate colors of Coca Cola. They still run ads this time of year with their holiday mascot. Why doesn't Pepsi or any other soda company use these colors? The reason is that it would be copyright infringement.
So there you have it, Radha and Krishna are sporting the colors and costume of a mundane corporation. Maybe we should dress them up as Fred and Wilma Flintstone and offer them Fruity Pebbles as bhoga. Where does the nonsense end? Bottom line is this is not sanctioned by guru, sadhu and sastra. It is ras abhas. There are no lilas of Radha and Krishna outside of Bharat Bhumi, and certainly not at the North Pole. Aprakat lila (unmanifest lila) is eternally going on in the Holy Dhama and these eternal lilas do not include snow, reindeer and Santa outfits. This nonsense should stop and these pictures should stop being circulated. I leave you with this last bit of Prabhupada Vani:
"Don't do this. Keep the old system strong, and if necessary repair it. Don't change from this to that. That is your American disease. This is very serious that you always want to change everything."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter to Bhakta dasa, Nov 24, 1974)
is a Deviation
BY: KAMALAKANTA DAS
Every year around this time we see devotees circulate pictures of Radha Krishna deities dressed as Santa Claus and Mrs. Claus. As I read many of the comments on these pics I see many in opposition to this (which is good) but also many comments like,"Oh so cute", "Beautiful", etc. So the real questions that must be asked are as follows. First off, have any of our previous acharyas done this or have they instructed us to do this? The answer is obviously no! Here are two quotes from Srila Prabhupada that confirm this:
"The Deity worship should be done just in the way it was carried out in my presence."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, November 13, 1970)
[PADA: Correct, we have to offer the bhogha to Srila Prabhupada. That was the first thing the GBC changed, they started saying we need to offer bhogha to the 11 gurus. Thus, the offerings were not being accepted and people were eating bhogha, and they still are.]
"The greatest danger to our movement will come when we manufacture and create our own process for worshiping the deities." (Srila Prabhupada Letter, April 1, 1973)
Were Radha and Krishna ever dressed as Santa and Mrs. Claus along with reindeer etc. in Prabhupada's physical presence? Absolutely not! Whenever there is a question or doubt about our philosophy, whether it be jiva tattva, guru tattva, our sadhana or whatever it may be, the three consulting authorities are guru, sadhu and sastra. This is confirmed by Srila Prabhupada in this Bhagavatam purport.
[PADA: And that is one reason PADA editor was kicked out of ISKCON, for complaining that we cannot change the process of offering bhogha to the pure devotee.]
"Sadhu-sastra-guru: one has to test all spiritual matters according to the instructions of saintly persons, scriptures and the spiritual master. The spiritual master is one who follows the instructions of his predecessors, namely the sadhus, or saintly persons. A bona fide spiritual master does not mention anything not mentioned in the authorized scriptures. Ordinary people have to follow the instructions of sadhu, sastra and guru. Those statements made in the sastras and those made by the bona fide sadhu or guru cannot differ from one another." (Srimad Bhagavatam 4.16.1 Purport)
Has any Guru is our Gaudiya Parampara authorized this or spoken about this? Absolutely not! Again to make it clear he says, "One has to test all spiritual matters according to the instructions of saintly persons, scriptures and the spiritual master". The worship of Sri Murti is certainly a spiritual matter and part of our worship in vaidhi-bhakti, and also for one who has attained the platform of raganuga-bhakti. Srila Prabhupada has said the greatest danger to our movement is when we manufacture our own process for deity worship. So there is the opinion of Guru. Srila Prabhupada is Jagat Guru and the siksa Guru for the whole world.
[PADA: And when Jayatirtha was offering LSD and Hash-hish to his shalagram, the GBC said he has to stay and we have to go for protesting these deviations. The GBC protected these deity worship deviators.]
This dressing Radha and Krishna up as Santa and Mrs. Claus is certainly manufacturing our own process. What do sadhus say about this? Many sadhus have said this is not at all proper. I don't have any written statements, but I know H.H. Bhakti Vikasa Swami has spoken out against this and it is recorded on his website.
[PADA: Except that Bhakti Vikas swami is part of the group that has changed the offerings to make bhogha never become prasadam by offering bhogha to deviants.]
What does sastra, scripture say about this? Well, Bhagavatam is a scripture that predates Christianity, but in the eleventh canto in the section known as Uddhava Gita, Sri Krishna speaks elaborately about deity worship. To my knowledge there is no mention of Santa Claus outfits.
Sri Krishna is Svayam Bhagavan, the original Supreme Personality of Godhead and sarva jña, knower of past present and future, surely He would mention this if it was His desire. What about scripture written after the time of Christ, like Chaitanya-caritamrita, Chaitanya Bhagavat, Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu, Upadesamrita, Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu Bindhu? What about Jaiva Dharma and all of the other books of Bhaktivinode Thakur? No mention whatsoever about dressing the deity up as Santa Claus or any other non-Vedic religious figures, real or mythological. So we can conclude that according to guru, sadhu and sastra it is not bona fide.
The final question must be asked for those who dress Sri Murti up in this way and for those who like, relish, and approve of this. And that question is: whose pleasure is it for? Is it for Krishna's pleasure that you want to see Radha and Krishna dressed as Santa and Mrs. Claus, or is it for your pleasure? Our philosophy stresses this one concept, that by giving Krishna pleasure we experience bliss. What makes Radha and the gopis happy? Giving pleasure to Krishna. Their sentiment is that even if the distress caused by separation from Krishna gives Krishna pleasure, then so be it, that distress is satisfying. Our acharyas have explained to us what pleases Krishna. We follow their instructions Also what is the definition of suddha-bhakti, pure bhakti, the topmost platform of uttama bhakti?
anyabhilasita-sunyam
jnana-karmady-anavrtam
anukulyena krsnanu-
silanam bhaktir uttama
"Uttama bhakti is the cultivation of activities that are meant exclusively for the benefit of Sri Krsna, in other words, the uninterrupted flow of service to Him, performed through all endeavours of the body, mind, and speech, and through the expression of various bhavas (spiritual sentiments). It is not covered by jnana (knowledge aimed at impersonal liberation) and karma (reward-seeking activity), yoga or austerities; and it is completely free from all desires other than the aspiration to bring happiness to Krsna."
Can we really be following in the anugatya of Srila Rupa Goswami Prabhupada and our Rupanuga Guru Varga if we dress the deity according to our own whims and concoctions not sanctioned by our acharyas? I think not.
[PADA: Worse, people like Narayan Maharaja supported the bogus GBC's program of offering bhogha to persons engaged in illicit behaviors. And he said our idea, to continue the worship as it was, is a deviation. So he endorsed these changers.]
Some may say well, Srila Prabhupada accepted Christ as the Son of God and a pure devotee, so what is wrong with a Christmas theme for the deities? First off, Prabhupada never sanctioned Interfaith crossovers such as changing dress from dhotis to Franciscan Monk robes, or worshipping a murti of yoga Jesus, as what went on in New Vrindavan. Srila Prabhupada has ordered us to be intelligent enough to know who is deviating and what constitutes deviation from our siddhanta and practices.
[PADA: And in 1986, when Satsvarupa was writing that Kirtanananda is the purest person, and he is like Jesus, Narayan Maharaja was "teaching rasika" to that identical Satsvarupa group.]
A devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating. Surrender by your intelligence, but don't surrender your intelligence." (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Bali Mardana, 1974)
Secondly, there is a movement among Christians to put Christ back in Christmas. They feel Santa Claus has little or nothing to do with Christmas and the focus has shifted to Santa and materialism, giving and receiving gifts and not celebrating the birth of Christ. Who was Santa Claus aka St. Nicholas? I am not gonna go into a long story, but in short, he was a Christian saint from the Fourth Century. He embodied the spirit of charity and giving. He was persecuted and imprisoned by the Roman Empire.
Aside from being charitable and doing mundane welfare work, what was his character? Was he a meat eater? Most likely he was a meat eater. What is the Santa we know today? He has been elevated to mythical status with all sorts of mystical powers. To top it off, that trademark red and white costume he wears are actually from a 1931 ad campaign by Coca Cola. The red and white are the corporate colors of Coca Cola. They still run ads this time of year with their holiday mascot. Why doesn't Pepsi or any other soda company use these colors? The reason is that it would be copyright infringement.
So there you have it, Radha and Krishna are sporting the colors and costume of a mundane corporation. Maybe we should dress them up as Fred and Wilma Flintstone and offer them Fruity Pebbles as bhoga. Where does the nonsense end? Bottom line is this is not sanctioned by guru, sadhu and sastra. It is ras abhas. There are no lilas of Radha and Krishna outside of Bharat Bhumi, and certainly not at the North Pole. Aprakat lila (unmanifest lila) is eternally going on in the Holy Dhama and these eternal lilas do not include snow, reindeer and Santa outfits. This nonsense should stop and these pictures should stop being circulated. I leave you with this last bit of Prabhupada Vani:
"Don't do this. Keep the old system strong, and if necessary repair it. Don't change from this to that. That is your American disease. This is very serious that you always want to change everything."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter to Bhakta dasa, Nov 24, 1974)
[PADA: And Bhakta Das is today supporting the GBC guru system and their changes.]
Rajneesh Poisoning Account
http://www.oshoworld.com/biography/innercontent.asp?FileName=biography10/10-16-poisoned.txt
[PADA: Claims he was being poisoned. OK, this does not mean PADA endorses Rajneesh, but the idea that different types of gurus from India are sometimes poisoned is something to consider. ys pd]
[PADA: Claims he was being poisoned. OK, this does not mean PADA endorses Rajneesh, but the idea that different types of gurus from India are sometimes poisoned is something to consider. ys pd]
Wednesday, December 25, 2013
Dusyanta Is Rudderless and Guru-less
The Ritvik Colour
BY: DUSYANTA DASA
I must write to concur with Prahlada Nrsimha Prabhu in his article about the IRM, Ritviks and all. Some Ritviks have now reached the point of no return in their perfectly non-transparent interpretations of English words on paper. They have coloured the enquiries and answers so much now that it is unlikely they will ever get to understand the Guru Tattva issue from an all-encompassing angle.
[PADA: Notice that Rocana, Dusyanta, Prahlad Nrsingha, Kailash chandra and similar other "Sampradya Sun" writers never mention the name of their so-called living guru. They imply that they are following and worshiping a living guru, but they are apparently -- not following any. Meanwhile, they insist that others follow their living guru, but they never explain -- who that is?
If they have a living guru, who is he? They speak of "guru tattva" but never mention the NAME of the guru they want us to worship. So we need to worship someone who is living, but, we have no idea who that might be? This is called mental speculation, ... could be, may be, might be, sorta should be -- a living guru. Yep and I should -- could -- maybe --- might -- buy a Cadillac next week because I "could be" a millionaire tomorrow? Speculation.
What is their actual idea? "You cannot worship a departed guru, rather you need to worship our living guru, oops -- but we forgot who that is"? They want to start a new spiritual movement based on their self-advertised process -- worship of the living guru -- but they never mention who is "the living guru" is. Thus, they really have no living guru, and hence no living guru's books, lectures, photos, temples, devotees, -- no nothing to show where their alleged "guru" and his worship idea is being implemented and is working?
Dusyanta and Prahlad Nrsingha simply say we cannot worship Srila Prabhupada now, that is a deviation. Instead, we need to worship their alleged living guru, or be fools on the hill along with them waiting for the next messiah. How is that going to work practically? We are going to tell people (a) join us in the worship our living guru, fine except (b) we are worshiping no living guru whatsoever, and never mention who that is?
What kind of religion is that?
We want you to worship the living guru, who may or may not even exist, and who may or may not appear soon -- and who may never ever -- appear -- ever? No wonder they have no programs, or process ongoing. This is like Doomsday cults asking people to wait for Jesus to take them away.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/17/harold-camping-dead-dies_n_4459716.html ]
DD: On the Prabhupadanuga.eu site I recently wrote a challenging article concerning their interpretation of the July 9th Letter. They seem to think that one word, "henceforward" is equal to the phrase "after Srila Prabhupada is no longer physically existing."
[PADA: What proof is there that the word "henceforward" does not apply to when he is not here physically? Where is the proof that 11 gurus were appointed? If Srila Prabhupada did NOT want his followers to act as his preachers, agents, priests / ritviks -- what else did he order then? And where was that order given?
We cannot simply say, "he did NOT order his followers to act as his agents and preachers, rather he wanted his followers to act as his acharya successors as soon as he departed" -- without citing any evidence where he ordered that? If he ordered one guru -- or eleven gurus, or someone else like Sridhara Maharaja to act as his successor acharya -- as soon as he departed -- where was this order given? Dusyanta says worship of the acharya is bogus because the acharya ordered us to worship the "living" pure person, --- what living pure person? Where is this living pure person? Is this living pure person a phantasm who does not even exist?]
DD: So I challenged that interpretation and offered up a more reasonable meaning, that "henceforward" referred more to the change in the initiations protocols and that the whole July 9th Letter was not so absolutely enforcing that protocol, rather it was a choice for the Temple Presidents of the day and a response to the huge queue of devotees waiting for initiation. Also that the word "henceforward" in the context of the July 9th Letter did not apply holistically to the whole letter.
[PADA: OK, what was ordered henceforward? That we should have joined Rocana in his support of the 11 after 1977? That we should have joined Rocana later on, when he claimed he was going to "reform" his bogus 11 gurus in 1986? Or that we should promote the worship of a phantom living guru as Dusyanta is doing? Where does Srila Prabhupada says, henceforward, we should follow Dusyanta's idea of promoting the worship of a non-existing living guru, who is a phantasm, who apparently does not even exist?]
DD: Then I quoted a piece from Srila Prabhupada's Cc 1.58, regarding the manifestation of a liberated Shiksa guru in front of the external senses of the devotee sent by Krishna Himself. This was to illustrate the need and actual help we all get from the Supersoul, Krishna, through His mercy via a physically present Spiritual Master.
[PADA: Fine except, Dusyanta does not have any "manifested" guru because he never tells us who that is? Its a phantasm. He thinks Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and his living guru are all "manfiested," ok but where are they manifested?]
DD: "Since one cannot visually experience the presence of the Supersoul. He appears before us as a liberated devotee. Such a Spiritual Master is no one other than Krishna Himself." (Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 1.58) And then the whole purport by Srila Prabhupada:
"It is not possible for a conditioned soul to directly meet Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Krishna sends an Instructing Spiritual Master to show him favour and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme. The preceptor appears before the external senses of the fortunate conditioned soul, and at the same time the devotee is guided from within by the caittya-guru, Krishna, who is seated as the Spiritual Master within the heart of the living entity."
This quote illustrates how Lord Krishna and the Spiritual Master work in tandem to help the conditioned souls on their journey back to Godhead. The liberated Shiksa guru appears before the external senses of the devotee. Or to put it another way, the Spiritual Master is physically present before the devotee sent by Lord Krishna and is no one other than Krishna Himself.
[PADA: OK, this is what these people keep saying, their spiritual master is physically present, he is appearing, he is manifesting, he is right here, he is right before your eyes, except --- they never tell us who this guru is, how can we meet him, where are his programs and so on? So this is like saying, I have a million dollars, but -- I cannot really show you where it is. That means, its useless, it cannot be seen, it has no value. Worse, if they really have a living guru, and they refuse to tell us where he is, then this is like saying -- we can save the world, but we are not going to, because we refuse to give people access to our living guru. "Hiding their light under a bushel."]
DD: The Prabhupadanuga devotees accused me of being a Vapuh vadi because of this statement from Srila Prabhupada's Cc. And that I was going to redefine Srila Prabhupada's clear ritvik order for the future initiations into Iskcon. Then they made up a whole article that essentially character assassinated me and called me names. Exactly what they criticise ISKCON leadership of doing... exactly the same.
[PADA: Well yes, since you cannot even identify your guru, that means you are saying worship of the actual pure devotee Srila Prabhupada is bogus, because we need to worship -- no one and nothing, so yes, that is rather ridiculous. Its not very intelligent to say we need to worship no one and nothing, so yes, you will be ridiculed for that since its very foolish. You cannot worship Jesus, you need to worship the live body.
OK, live body of whom? Well we do not know, you just need to worship the live body. Makes no sense? Worship of "the live body" is not found in any religion, since the body is considered as temporary illusion. That is what the GBC said to me in 1978, we need to worship Jayatirtha because he is the living body, that is total ignorance. The body is a lump of matter.]
DD: But I had written all this in a reply panel under an article they had written. The panel section is for invited readers to comment on good, bad or ugly and then that reply is published underneath the original article for all to see. Then more replies come in from others either supporting it or rebutting it. But they did not do this to my article, they just made up a whole new article that was not at all representative of what I wrote. They just took bits out of context and lambasted me. In fact, they did not represent me in truth and I wrote back again in a new panel linked with this article that lambasted me, saying how un-representative they had become and it was no good just character assassinating me and calling me names.
[PADA: Well then answer us here, who is your live bodied guru, where is your live bodied guru? Do you even have one? Or are you speaking about an alleged living person who does not even exist?]
DD: What they did not do was to publish the quotes from Srila Prabhupada's Cc Adi 1.58 and then prove that the Ritvik theory was still applicable, with substantial quotes from Srila Prabhupada. In fact they cannot do that, and now they have deteriorated so much that they have reverted to all the tactics they accused the GBC of years ago: character assassination, calling devotees names and pure mis-representation. What comes around goes around. And their example of how they deal with devotees and their relationship with devotees who don't agree with them exemplifies exactly how they have had no training with a Spiritual master, who has not guided them and chastised them. They are now out of control with themselves and a real danger to society.
[PADA: Well you have no guru's program, no guru's temples, no guru's books, no nothing, how is that helping anyone? You are telling people to not bother listening to you, since you are a rudderless person with no guru, that helps no one ever? You are at least admitting you are a lost soul, you have zero guru, fine, well then do not bother to tell people you are lost, that does not help them. We already know you are guru-less and lost, so first of all get yourself a guru and then you can help others.]
DD: Over the years I have submitted articles to the Sampradaya Sun, under the editorship of Rocana Prabhu and the Sun staff that have been challenging and with my own opinions intact. And they have been published with rebuttals from them. And in this dynamic of debate, which is exactly what we are engaged in here, then we either have to bite the bullet and realise what a mistake we have made or we just go awol in Krishna Consciousness, we sink or swim. If we take a humble path and try to work out exactly where we have gone wrong then that's acceptable to all devotees, we all make mistakes, but if we become so arrogant and puffed up with what we think is the Truth and in the face of monumental disagreement we don't back down then we just sink into the material ocean of illusion.
[PADA: Correct, people who do not have a guru like you are lost and are in the material ocean, correct.]
DD: Since "The Final Order" has been deconstructed by just about everyone on the other side of ISKCON, and if we go through the comprehensive booklet there are so many mistakes that it could all be re-written, isn't it about time that we just leave the Ritviks in their own bubble to enjoy being in that self-imposed illusion? There is no point in "debating" with some of them because they don't know how to debate. They don't know how to "hear" anymore, they have gone beyond hearing. And they have got hugely fanatic persons on the Ritvik side that think they can now imitate Srila Prabhupada Himself and even go beyond Him. They have got to be the most unfortunate souls on the planet; they could not be any more small-minded and merciless even if they tried to be.
[PADA: The ritviks at least can identify their guru, you do not. You cannot argue anything until you get a source of knowledge, you have none. If Srila Prabhupada ordered any other program except to read and follow his program after he departed, such as worship of the living body, where is this stated? ys pd]
BY: DUSYANTA DASA
I must write to concur with Prahlada Nrsimha Prabhu in his article about the IRM, Ritviks and all. Some Ritviks have now reached the point of no return in their perfectly non-transparent interpretations of English words on paper. They have coloured the enquiries and answers so much now that it is unlikely they will ever get to understand the Guru Tattva issue from an all-encompassing angle.
[PADA: Notice that Rocana, Dusyanta, Prahlad Nrsingha, Kailash chandra and similar other "Sampradya Sun" writers never mention the name of their so-called living guru. They imply that they are following and worshiping a living guru, but they are apparently -- not following any. Meanwhile, they insist that others follow their living guru, but they never explain -- who that is?
If they have a living guru, who is he? They speak of "guru tattva" but never mention the NAME of the guru they want us to worship. So we need to worship someone who is living, but, we have no idea who that might be? This is called mental speculation, ... could be, may be, might be, sorta should be -- a living guru. Yep and I should -- could -- maybe --- might -- buy a Cadillac next week because I "could be" a millionaire tomorrow? Speculation.
What is their actual idea? "You cannot worship a departed guru, rather you need to worship our living guru, oops -- but we forgot who that is"? They want to start a new spiritual movement based on their self-advertised process -- worship of the living guru -- but they never mention who is "the living guru" is. Thus, they really have no living guru, and hence no living guru's books, lectures, photos, temples, devotees, -- no nothing to show where their alleged "guru" and his worship idea is being implemented and is working?
Dusyanta and Prahlad Nrsingha simply say we cannot worship Srila Prabhupada now, that is a deviation. Instead, we need to worship their alleged living guru, or be fools on the hill along with them waiting for the next messiah. How is that going to work practically? We are going to tell people (a) join us in the worship our living guru, fine except (b) we are worshiping no living guru whatsoever, and never mention who that is?
What kind of religion is that?
We want you to worship the living guru, who may or may not even exist, and who may or may not appear soon -- and who may never ever -- appear -- ever? No wonder they have no programs, or process ongoing. This is like Doomsday cults asking people to wait for Jesus to take them away.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/17/harold-camping-dead-dies_n_4459716.html ]
DD: On the Prabhupadanuga.eu site I recently wrote a challenging article concerning their interpretation of the July 9th Letter. They seem to think that one word, "henceforward" is equal to the phrase "after Srila Prabhupada is no longer physically existing."
[PADA: What proof is there that the word "henceforward" does not apply to when he is not here physically? Where is the proof that 11 gurus were appointed? If Srila Prabhupada did NOT want his followers to act as his preachers, agents, priests / ritviks -- what else did he order then? And where was that order given?
We cannot simply say, "he did NOT order his followers to act as his agents and preachers, rather he wanted his followers to act as his acharya successors as soon as he departed" -- without citing any evidence where he ordered that? If he ordered one guru -- or eleven gurus, or someone else like Sridhara Maharaja to act as his successor acharya -- as soon as he departed -- where was this order given? Dusyanta says worship of the acharya is bogus because the acharya ordered us to worship the "living" pure person, --- what living pure person? Where is this living pure person? Is this living pure person a phantasm who does not even exist?]
DD: So I challenged that interpretation and offered up a more reasonable meaning, that "henceforward" referred more to the change in the initiations protocols and that the whole July 9th Letter was not so absolutely enforcing that protocol, rather it was a choice for the Temple Presidents of the day and a response to the huge queue of devotees waiting for initiation. Also that the word "henceforward" in the context of the July 9th Letter did not apply holistically to the whole letter.
[PADA: OK, what was ordered henceforward? That we should have joined Rocana in his support of the 11 after 1977? That we should have joined Rocana later on, when he claimed he was going to "reform" his bogus 11 gurus in 1986? Or that we should promote the worship of a phantom living guru as Dusyanta is doing? Where does Srila Prabhupada says, henceforward, we should follow Dusyanta's idea of promoting the worship of a non-existing living guru, who is a phantasm, who apparently does not even exist?]
DD: Then I quoted a piece from Srila Prabhupada's Cc 1.58, regarding the manifestation of a liberated Shiksa guru in front of the external senses of the devotee sent by Krishna Himself. This was to illustrate the need and actual help we all get from the Supersoul, Krishna, through His mercy via a physically present Spiritual Master.
[PADA: Fine except, Dusyanta does not have any "manifested" guru because he never tells us who that is? Its a phantasm. He thinks Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and his living guru are all "manfiested," ok but where are they manifested?]
DD: "Since one cannot visually experience the presence of the Supersoul. He appears before us as a liberated devotee. Such a Spiritual Master is no one other than Krishna Himself." (Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 1.58) And then the whole purport by Srila Prabhupada:
"It is not possible for a conditioned soul to directly meet Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Krishna sends an Instructing Spiritual Master to show him favour and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme. The preceptor appears before the external senses of the fortunate conditioned soul, and at the same time the devotee is guided from within by the caittya-guru, Krishna, who is seated as the Spiritual Master within the heart of the living entity."
This quote illustrates how Lord Krishna and the Spiritual Master work in tandem to help the conditioned souls on their journey back to Godhead. The liberated Shiksa guru appears before the external senses of the devotee. Or to put it another way, the Spiritual Master is physically present before the devotee sent by Lord Krishna and is no one other than Krishna Himself.
[PADA: OK, this is what these people keep saying, their spiritual master is physically present, he is appearing, he is manifesting, he is right here, he is right before your eyes, except --- they never tell us who this guru is, how can we meet him, where are his programs and so on? So this is like saying, I have a million dollars, but -- I cannot really show you where it is. That means, its useless, it cannot be seen, it has no value. Worse, if they really have a living guru, and they refuse to tell us where he is, then this is like saying -- we can save the world, but we are not going to, because we refuse to give people access to our living guru. "Hiding their light under a bushel."]
DD: The Prabhupadanuga devotees accused me of being a Vapuh vadi because of this statement from Srila Prabhupada's Cc. And that I was going to redefine Srila Prabhupada's clear ritvik order for the future initiations into Iskcon. Then they made up a whole article that essentially character assassinated me and called me names. Exactly what they criticise ISKCON leadership of doing... exactly the same.
[PADA: Well yes, since you cannot even identify your guru, that means you are saying worship of the actual pure devotee Srila Prabhupada is bogus, because we need to worship -- no one and nothing, so yes, that is rather ridiculous. Its not very intelligent to say we need to worship no one and nothing, so yes, you will be ridiculed for that since its very foolish. You cannot worship Jesus, you need to worship the live body.
OK, live body of whom? Well we do not know, you just need to worship the live body. Makes no sense? Worship of "the live body" is not found in any religion, since the body is considered as temporary illusion. That is what the GBC said to me in 1978, we need to worship Jayatirtha because he is the living body, that is total ignorance. The body is a lump of matter.]
DD: But I had written all this in a reply panel under an article they had written. The panel section is for invited readers to comment on good, bad or ugly and then that reply is published underneath the original article for all to see. Then more replies come in from others either supporting it or rebutting it. But they did not do this to my article, they just made up a whole new article that was not at all representative of what I wrote. They just took bits out of context and lambasted me. In fact, they did not represent me in truth and I wrote back again in a new panel linked with this article that lambasted me, saying how un-representative they had become and it was no good just character assassinating me and calling me names.
[PADA: Well then answer us here, who is your live bodied guru, where is your live bodied guru? Do you even have one? Or are you speaking about an alleged living person who does not even exist?]
DD: What they did not do was to publish the quotes from Srila Prabhupada's Cc Adi 1.58 and then prove that the Ritvik theory was still applicable, with substantial quotes from Srila Prabhupada. In fact they cannot do that, and now they have deteriorated so much that they have reverted to all the tactics they accused the GBC of years ago: character assassination, calling devotees names and pure mis-representation. What comes around goes around. And their example of how they deal with devotees and their relationship with devotees who don't agree with them exemplifies exactly how they have had no training with a Spiritual master, who has not guided them and chastised them. They are now out of control with themselves and a real danger to society.
[PADA: Well you have no guru's program, no guru's temples, no guru's books, no nothing, how is that helping anyone? You are telling people to not bother listening to you, since you are a rudderless person with no guru, that helps no one ever? You are at least admitting you are a lost soul, you have zero guru, fine, well then do not bother to tell people you are lost, that does not help them. We already know you are guru-less and lost, so first of all get yourself a guru and then you can help others.]
DD: Over the years I have submitted articles to the Sampradaya Sun, under the editorship of Rocana Prabhu and the Sun staff that have been challenging and with my own opinions intact. And they have been published with rebuttals from them. And in this dynamic of debate, which is exactly what we are engaged in here, then we either have to bite the bullet and realise what a mistake we have made or we just go awol in Krishna Consciousness, we sink or swim. If we take a humble path and try to work out exactly where we have gone wrong then that's acceptable to all devotees, we all make mistakes, but if we become so arrogant and puffed up with what we think is the Truth and in the face of monumental disagreement we don't back down then we just sink into the material ocean of illusion.
[PADA: Correct, people who do not have a guru like you are lost and are in the material ocean, correct.]
DD: Since "The Final Order" has been deconstructed by just about everyone on the other side of ISKCON, and if we go through the comprehensive booklet there are so many mistakes that it could all be re-written, isn't it about time that we just leave the Ritviks in their own bubble to enjoy being in that self-imposed illusion? There is no point in "debating" with some of them because they don't know how to debate. They don't know how to "hear" anymore, they have gone beyond hearing. And they have got hugely fanatic persons on the Ritvik side that think they can now imitate Srila Prabhupada Himself and even go beyond Him. They have got to be the most unfortunate souls on the planet; they could not be any more small-minded and merciless even if they tried to be.
[PADA: The ritviks at least can identify their guru, you do not. You cannot argue anything until you get a source of knowledge, you have none. If Srila Prabhupada ordered any other program except to read and follow his program after he departed, such as worship of the living body, where is this stated? ys pd]
Discussion On Ritviks (by Padmagarbha das)
[PADA would like to offer our sincere appreciation to all these devotees like Padmagharbha dasa who, over the past decades, have supported our effort to re-establish Srila Prabhupada as the acharya. Our eternal thanks! ys pd]
[From Padmagarbha das] Dear Gopta,
Thank you for your kind and 'sentimental' letter. I too am quite 'sentimental', I even often tear up in sentimental movies. Only when it comes to the philosophy of Krsna consciousness, and specifically the words and teachings of Srila Prabhupada, as well as loyalty to Srila Prabhupada, I fanatically try to avoid sentimentality!
You feeling 'unworthy' and unqualified in weighing-in on the matter of Patita Pavan, Bhakta dasa and others who are rejecting SP's orders due to you not practicing strictly, is a reflection of your feelings of guilt as well as your humility. However, there is an ocean of difference between weakness and cheating, as stated perfectly by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja:
"Cheating and weakness are two separate things. Persons devoid of a cheating propensity achieve perfection in life, but a cheater is never successful. Vaisnavism is another name for simplicity. Cheaters are non-devotees. Sincere persons can be weak, but they are not cheaters. Cheaters say something but do something else. Weak people are embarrassed by their defects, whereas cheaters are maddened by their achievements. I will cheat the acharya,I will deceive the doctor,I will nourish the poisonous snake of my sinful propensity with banana and milk, hiding him in the hole of my cheating propensity, and I will demand name and fame from the people while posing as a saint [a senior devotee].
These are not symptoms of weakness but of utter deceitfulness. Such cheaters will never achieve any good. By hearing humbly from saints with a sincere attitude, however, one will gradually attain auspiciousness. After accepting tridandi-sannyasa if one remains busy with worldly activities, thinking that family life is more important than spiritual life or maintaining the sinful mentality of kidnapping Sita from Rama [stealing SP's disciples] as Ravana did even while dressed as a devotee, then one is a self-killer. We are far from the worship of Hari. Even if we have weakness and have enough anarthas to last us for millions of years, we are not as misfortunate as if we possessed a cheating propensity. It is better to take birth as animals or birds than to take shelter of cheating."
Gopta, by rejecting SP's orders [final] on the issue of Guru Tattva the leaders of iskcon AND their enablers are not only cheating the unsuspecting newcomers, but they are cheating the entire universe out of being able to take shelter at SP's lotus feet!
[PADA: Correct. People like Patita Pavan das, Bhakta das, the Gaudiya Matha folks etc., they are enabling the GBC's gurus to continue with their cheating, by promoting these cheaters as gurus.]
Had they kept SP at the center of this movement, most likely tens of millions of jivas would have taken shelter of this movement by now. Srila Prabhupada stated, "if the leaders follow strictly [his instructions], this movement will spread like wildfire." It is most disheartening and most offensive for Patita [and others] to reject, and to contradict SP's clear and well documented instructions on the ritvik-arrangement by quoting one of SP's godbrothers.
Toronto, 9 Nov. 1975
"My dear Visvakarma das,
Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated September 3, 1975 with the enclosed statement about Van Maharaja. So I have now issued orders that ALL my disciples should avoid ALL of my God brothers. They should not have ANY dealings with them nor even correspondence, nor should they give them any of my books or should they purchase any of their books, neither should you visit any of their temples. Please avoid them."
Those 'first generation' Prabhupada disciples who have rejected SP's 'final order', are usually those who are either extremely envious and ambitious, or often those who disobeyed SP's orders not to associate with his devious God brothers.
Bhakta das and Patita's claim that the 'ritviks' are impersonalists and atheists, as well as a cancer on the Sampradaya is a MOST outrageous and a MOST offensive direct attack on Srila Prabhupada.
Actually, what Patita endorses, the present iskcon guru tattva position, THAT is impersonalism and IT is a cancer on the Sampradaya!
The spiritual master and the body that he manifests in this material realm are to be worshiped, to be considered on the same level as the Supreme Lord. Just like red hot iron is considered fire, the body of the "bona fide" spiritual master is considered spiritual. In several letters SP stated that he IS present in his picture, therefor the worship of his picture, or murti is non-different from worshiping SP directly.
SP is personally present to accept the worship, to accept the bhoga that is being offered to his pictures.
In all iskcon centers, as well as in the homes of the "disciples" of iskcon's "gurus" arotics and offerings of bhoga are being performed to pictures of conditioned souls. Those individuals are NOT present in their pictures, they are NOT there to accept the offerings. All there is on the 'altar', is a piece of paper with pigments on it depicting the material form of a conditioned soul.
A body made of material elements, combined only to resemble the shape of a real person. The 'material' body is NOT the person! So, I firmly belief that since neither the pictures, nor the actual material bodies of conditioned souls posing as gurus are 'spiritual', are they to be accepted as 'persons' [what to speak of being spiritual masters]. Therefore, such very practice must be considered "idol worship", and that actually is "impersonalism"! Propogating the belief that conditioned souls [bodies], many of them guilty of behaviors not even acceptable by "karmis", are to be worshiped as good as the Supreme Lord, THAT I feel is a "cancer on the Sampradaya"!
"One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari [the highest stage of spiritual realization] " (The Nectar of Instruction, text 5, purport)
"There is no possibility that a first-class devotee will fall down, even though he may mix with non-devotees to preach. Conviction and faith gradually increase to make one an uttama-adhikari, a first-class devotee." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 22.71, purport]
"When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY such a person is eligible to occupy the
post of a guru." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 24.330, purport)
"It is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. [...] Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore, only Lord Krishna, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can release the conditioned soul." (Bhagavad-gita As It Is 7.14, purport, 1972 ed.)
"A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord [...]" Bhagavad-gita As It Is, 4.42, purport)
"A spiritually advanced person who acts with authority, as the spiritual master, speaks as the Supreme Personality of Godhead dictates from within. Thus it is not he that is personally speaking. When a pure devotee or spiritual master speaks, what he says should be accepted as having been directly spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the parampara system." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 5.71, purport)
"You are correct when you say that when the Spiritual Master speaks it should be taken that Krishna is speaking. That is a fact. A Spiritual Master must be liberated." (Srila Prabhupada Letter, June 10th, 1969)
".... such an acarya, or spiritual master, should be considered non-different from Krishna, that is, he should be considered the incarnation of Lord Krishna's potency. Such a personality is Krsnalingita-vigraha, that is, he is always embraced by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna [...] He is the guru, or spiritual
master, for the entire world, a devotee on the topmost platform, the maha-bhagavata stage, and a paramahamsa-thakura, a spiritual form only fit to be addressed as paramahamsa or thakura." (Sri Caitanya-
caritamrta, Madhya-lila 25.9, purport)
"Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance [...] So to summarize the whole thing, it is to be understood that a bona fide Spiritual Master is a resident of Krishna Loka." (Srila Prabhupada Letter, June 10th, 1969)
"One should understand the Spiritual Master to be as good as I am, said the Blessed Lord [...] `the Spiritual Master is the sum total of all demigods. That is, the acarya has been identified with God Himself." (Srila Prabhupada Lecture, February 1936)
"The spiritual master, or acarya, is always situated in the spiritual status of life. Birth, death, old age and disease do not affect him [...] therefore, after the disappearance of an acarya, his body is never burnt to ashes, for it is a spiritual body. The spiritual body is always unaffected by material conditions." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.4.20, purport)
"The conclusion is that a spiritual master who is authorized and empowered by Krishna and his own guru should be considered as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. That is the verdict of
Visvanatha Cakravarti: saksad-dharitvenasa. [...] As Hari is free to act as He likes, the empowered spiritual master is also free. As Hari is not subject to mundane rules and regulations, the spiritual master empowered by Him is also not subject." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 10.136, purport)
"Unless one takes shelter of a bonafide, fully Krsna conscious spiritual master, there is no chance of understanding Krsna... ....Only one who has surrendered to a pure devotee of Krsna can understand Krsna." [SB 7-5-32]
"Unless one is initiated by a bonafide spiritual master, ALL his devotional activities are USELESS. A person who is not properly initiated can again descend into the animal species." [Madhya Lila 15 .
"One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is AUTHORIZED by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called dikshan-vidhana. [SB 4.8.54]
"A siksa guru [instructing guru or priest] who instructs against the instructions of the spiritual master
he is not a siksa guru. He is a demon! Sometimes the diksa guru [initiating guru] is not present always. Therefor one can take learning, instructions from an advanced devotee. That is called siksa-guru.
But siksa-guru does not mean he is speaking something against the teachings of the diksa-guru. He is not a siksa-guru. He is a rascal. Because that is offense. Guru avajna, defying the authority of guru.
This is the first offense. So, one who is offensive, how can he make advance in chanting? He cannot make. Then everything is finished, in the beginning!" [Bg. 17:1-3, 07-4-74, Hawaii]
"Guru cannot be self-made. No. There is NO such single instance throughout the whole vedic literature.
And nowadays, so many rascals they are becoming guru without any authority. That is NOT guru. You MUST be authorized!" [Bg. 4.2]
"As for your next question, can only a pure devotee deliver others, ... anyone if he is a pure devotee he can deliver others, he can become spiritual master. But unless he is on that platform he should not attempt it. Then both of them will go to hell, like the blind man leading the blind." [letter to Tusta Krsna dasa, 12-14-72]
"Therefore, having a bona fide spiritual master and serving him, and pleasing him, and getting his mercy is essential. Otherwise there can be NO advancement in Krsna consciousness. And unless the spiritual master is a pure devotee of Krsna, then he has no potency to give Krsna. He is simply a cheating rascal!
So, in fact, above all the rules and regulations and offenses I have mentioned, the most important thing, the essential thing, which is required, if you want to come to the stage of purely chanting the Hare Krsna mantra,
is, you MUST have a bonafide spiritual master, who is a pure devotee of Krsna. Without having a bona fide spiritual master you can chant Hare Krsna forever, but will not be able to advance, because Krsna does
not reveal Himself in this way. He ONLY reveals Himself to those devotees who surrender to, and serve, and please His pure devotee!" [letter to his London disciples, July 1969]
"Unless one takes shelter of a bona fide, fully Krsna conscious spiritual master, there is no chance of understanding Krsna.... Only one who has surrendered to a pure devotee of Krsna , and has taken the dust of his lotus feet can understand Krsna..... One must take shelter of a self-realized spiritual master, that is the way to return home, back to Godhead." [SB 7.5.32 purport]
"It is illegal to become a spiritual master if one is unable to deliver the disciple". [S.B. 28.7]
May 28, 1977, Vrndavan
Satsvarupa Maharaja:"Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, PARTICULAR AT THE TIME WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US . We want to know how initiations would be conducted."
Srila Prabhupada:"Yes, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya." [ 'Officiating' is the performance of a function on behalf of another]
Tamal Krsna Maharaja: "Is that called ritvik-acarya?"
Srila Prabhupada: "Ritvik. Yes".
Gopta, the leaders of iskcon, the gbc, the sanyasis, and most of all, the "gurus", they have rejected outright a multitude of Srila Prabhupada's orders: "The order NOT to change his books; the order to sign the 'Oath of Allegience'; the order not to associate with his God brothers; the order to implement the "DOM"; the order to create self-sufficient farming communities; and most of all the order to continue the "ritvik initiation" process "Henceforth".
Outright rejection of, and even contradicting the orders, the very teachings of ones spiritual master I belief to the ultimate act of "being critical", of "finding fault" with the Acarya. And the following is what Srila Bhaktisiddhanta says of those who engage in such behavior:
"I do not want to see the faces of vile persons who criticize my Gurudeva, or who support those who criticize him. They are the cause of all inauspiciousness."
"May I never see the wicked face of that evil person who maligns [defames] the lotus feet of my Sri Gurudeva, or anyone who countenances [supports, approves] such a slanderer."
So, Gopta, do I want to engage with Patita in a debate on this issue? No, I don't think it would serve any purpose. Even if Srila Prabhupada gave me the intelligence, the right words and arguments to "defeat" Patita, I don't belief he would accept it. It would be like 'casting pearls before swines'.
This subject has been expertly debated and presented for years by prabhus much more qualified than me, and I am sure Patita, Bhakta Dasa, and all the other "enablers" have seen all the evidence,and they have heard all that can be said on this issue. Yet, they won't accept. "It is simple for the simple, and crooked for the crooked!"
It is ironic, the person Patita quotes, to support his argument, HH Puri Maharaja, not only had he publicly stated that iskcon's gurus are not "qualified" for their posts, but Puri Maharaja also can be heard on one of Siddhanta dasa's "Memory" tapes confirming Srila Prabhupada ordering for"ritviks" to succeed him after his departure.
In the debate on facebook, when confronted with the argument that over forty iskcon "gurus] have already 'fallen down', all Patita came back with is that this does not mean that 'they' are all unqualified. He is hereby proclaiming that Srila Prabhupada set up a system of "transcendental Russian Roulette", whereby the aspiring initiates in iskcon are to select a guru, while keeping their fingers crossed, hoping they chose one who is not going to fall down. Pure insanity, I say!
One of the main arguments of those rejecting the 'ritvik' system of initiations, is that it is "against tradition", that it is not part of our Sampradaya. And that Srila Prabhupada would never 'break' tradition. Never mind that he did, and that the Acarya has the authority to do so!
Instead, those ney-sayers insist that Srila Prabhupada set up a system by which unqualified, conditioned souls, still posessing unspeakable anarthas [pedophelia, homosexual behavior, whore-mongering, adultery, thieving, lying, and even the murdering of Vaisnavas, including the poisoning of their own spiritual master], that SP wanted such individuals to continue the disciplic succession, to continue being Acaryas in the Sampradaya. Is that the tradion, the behavior of spiritual masters in our, or any Sampradaya?
So, if Srila Prabhupada was faced with making some "practical" adjustment in the "tradition" of our Sampradaya, it shouldn't be difficult at all, which one he would choose!
I personally was there when Rohini Kumar Swami [one of iskcon's fallen gurus] related being present, in New York, when Srila Prabhupada was asked by a reporter, "who is going to be the next Acarya?" And Rohini Kumara told us that SP's answer was, "After me there won't be another Acarya." Hoping this finds you in progressing Krsna consciousness, your friend, Padmagarbha dasa
[From Padmagarbha das] Dear Gopta,
Thank you for your kind and 'sentimental' letter. I too am quite 'sentimental', I even often tear up in sentimental movies. Only when it comes to the philosophy of Krsna consciousness, and specifically the words and teachings of Srila Prabhupada, as well as loyalty to Srila Prabhupada, I fanatically try to avoid sentimentality!
You feeling 'unworthy' and unqualified in weighing-in on the matter of Patita Pavan, Bhakta dasa and others who are rejecting SP's orders due to you not practicing strictly, is a reflection of your feelings of guilt as well as your humility. However, there is an ocean of difference between weakness and cheating, as stated perfectly by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja:
"Cheating and weakness are two separate things. Persons devoid of a cheating propensity achieve perfection in life, but a cheater is never successful. Vaisnavism is another name for simplicity. Cheaters are non-devotees. Sincere persons can be weak, but they are not cheaters. Cheaters say something but do something else. Weak people are embarrassed by their defects, whereas cheaters are maddened by their achievements. I will cheat the acharya,I will deceive the doctor,I will nourish the poisonous snake of my sinful propensity with banana and milk, hiding him in the hole of my cheating propensity, and I will demand name and fame from the people while posing as a saint [a senior devotee].
These are not symptoms of weakness but of utter deceitfulness. Such cheaters will never achieve any good. By hearing humbly from saints with a sincere attitude, however, one will gradually attain auspiciousness. After accepting tridandi-sannyasa if one remains busy with worldly activities, thinking that family life is more important than spiritual life or maintaining the sinful mentality of kidnapping Sita from Rama [stealing SP's disciples] as Ravana did even while dressed as a devotee, then one is a self-killer. We are far from the worship of Hari. Even if we have weakness and have enough anarthas to last us for millions of years, we are not as misfortunate as if we possessed a cheating propensity. It is better to take birth as animals or birds than to take shelter of cheating."
Gopta, by rejecting SP's orders [final] on the issue of Guru Tattva the leaders of iskcon AND their enablers are not only cheating the unsuspecting newcomers, but they are cheating the entire universe out of being able to take shelter at SP's lotus feet!
[PADA: Correct. People like Patita Pavan das, Bhakta das, the Gaudiya Matha folks etc., they are enabling the GBC's gurus to continue with their cheating, by promoting these cheaters as gurus.]
Had they kept SP at the center of this movement, most likely tens of millions of jivas would have taken shelter of this movement by now. Srila Prabhupada stated, "if the leaders follow strictly [his instructions], this movement will spread like wildfire." It is most disheartening and most offensive for Patita [and others] to reject, and to contradict SP's clear and well documented instructions on the ritvik-arrangement by quoting one of SP's godbrothers.
Toronto, 9 Nov. 1975
"My dear Visvakarma das,
Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated September 3, 1975 with the enclosed statement about Van Maharaja. So I have now issued orders that ALL my disciples should avoid ALL of my God brothers. They should not have ANY dealings with them nor even correspondence, nor should they give them any of my books or should they purchase any of their books, neither should you visit any of their temples. Please avoid them."
Those 'first generation' Prabhupada disciples who have rejected SP's 'final order', are usually those who are either extremely envious and ambitious, or often those who disobeyed SP's orders not to associate with his devious God brothers.
Bhakta das and Patita's claim that the 'ritviks' are impersonalists and atheists, as well as a cancer on the Sampradaya is a MOST outrageous and a MOST offensive direct attack on Srila Prabhupada.
Actually, what Patita endorses, the present iskcon guru tattva position, THAT is impersonalism and IT is a cancer on the Sampradaya!
The spiritual master and the body that he manifests in this material realm are to be worshiped, to be considered on the same level as the Supreme Lord. Just like red hot iron is considered fire, the body of the "bona fide" spiritual master is considered spiritual. In several letters SP stated that he IS present in his picture, therefor the worship of his picture, or murti is non-different from worshiping SP directly.
SP is personally present to accept the worship, to accept the bhoga that is being offered to his pictures.
In all iskcon centers, as well as in the homes of the "disciples" of iskcon's "gurus" arotics and offerings of bhoga are being performed to pictures of conditioned souls. Those individuals are NOT present in their pictures, they are NOT there to accept the offerings. All there is on the 'altar', is a piece of paper with pigments on it depicting the material form of a conditioned soul.
A body made of material elements, combined only to resemble the shape of a real person. The 'material' body is NOT the person! So, I firmly belief that since neither the pictures, nor the actual material bodies of conditioned souls posing as gurus are 'spiritual', are they to be accepted as 'persons' [what to speak of being spiritual masters]. Therefore, such very practice must be considered "idol worship", and that actually is "impersonalism"! Propogating the belief that conditioned souls [bodies], many of them guilty of behaviors not even acceptable by "karmis", are to be worshiped as good as the Supreme Lord, THAT I feel is a "cancer on the Sampradaya"!
"One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari [the highest stage of spiritual realization] " (The Nectar of Instruction, text 5, purport)
"There is no possibility that a first-class devotee will fall down, even though he may mix with non-devotees to preach. Conviction and faith gradually increase to make one an uttama-adhikari, a first-class devotee." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 22.71, purport]
"When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY such a person is eligible to occupy the
post of a guru." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 24.330, purport)
"It is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. [...] Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore, only Lord Krishna, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can release the conditioned soul." (Bhagavad-gita As It Is 7.14, purport, 1972 ed.)
"A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord [...]" Bhagavad-gita As It Is, 4.42, purport)
"A spiritually advanced person who acts with authority, as the spiritual master, speaks as the Supreme Personality of Godhead dictates from within. Thus it is not he that is personally speaking. When a pure devotee or spiritual master speaks, what he says should be accepted as having been directly spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the parampara system." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 5.71, purport)
"You are correct when you say that when the Spiritual Master speaks it should be taken that Krishna is speaking. That is a fact. A Spiritual Master must be liberated." (Srila Prabhupada Letter, June 10th, 1969)
".... such an acarya, or spiritual master, should be considered non-different from Krishna, that is, he should be considered the incarnation of Lord Krishna's potency. Such a personality is Krsnalingita-vigraha, that is, he is always embraced by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna [...] He is the guru, or spiritual
master, for the entire world, a devotee on the topmost platform, the maha-bhagavata stage, and a paramahamsa-thakura, a spiritual form only fit to be addressed as paramahamsa or thakura." (Sri Caitanya-
caritamrta, Madhya-lila 25.9, purport)
"Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance [...] So to summarize the whole thing, it is to be understood that a bona fide Spiritual Master is a resident of Krishna Loka." (Srila Prabhupada Letter, June 10th, 1969)
"One should understand the Spiritual Master to be as good as I am, said the Blessed Lord [...] `the Spiritual Master is the sum total of all demigods. That is, the acarya has been identified with God Himself." (Srila Prabhupada Lecture, February 1936)
"The spiritual master, or acarya, is always situated in the spiritual status of life. Birth, death, old age and disease do not affect him [...] therefore, after the disappearance of an acarya, his body is never burnt to ashes, for it is a spiritual body. The spiritual body is always unaffected by material conditions." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.4.20, purport)
"The conclusion is that a spiritual master who is authorized and empowered by Krishna and his own guru should be considered as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. That is the verdict of
Visvanatha Cakravarti: saksad-dharitvenasa. [...] As Hari is free to act as He likes, the empowered spiritual master is also free. As Hari is not subject to mundane rules and regulations, the spiritual master empowered by Him is also not subject." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 10.136, purport)
"Unless one takes shelter of a bonafide, fully Krsna conscious spiritual master, there is no chance of understanding Krsna... ....Only one who has surrendered to a pure devotee of Krsna can understand Krsna." [SB 7-5-32]
"Unless one is initiated by a bonafide spiritual master, ALL his devotional activities are USELESS. A person who is not properly initiated can again descend into the animal species." [Madhya Lila 15 .
"One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is AUTHORIZED by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called dikshan-vidhana. [SB 4.8.54]
"A siksa guru [instructing guru or priest] who instructs against the instructions of the spiritual master
he is not a siksa guru. He is a demon! Sometimes the diksa guru [initiating guru] is not present always. Therefor one can take learning, instructions from an advanced devotee. That is called siksa-guru.
But siksa-guru does not mean he is speaking something against the teachings of the diksa-guru. He is not a siksa-guru. He is a rascal. Because that is offense. Guru avajna, defying the authority of guru.
This is the first offense. So, one who is offensive, how can he make advance in chanting? He cannot make. Then everything is finished, in the beginning!" [Bg. 17:1-3, 07-4-74, Hawaii]
"Guru cannot be self-made. No. There is NO such single instance throughout the whole vedic literature.
And nowadays, so many rascals they are becoming guru without any authority. That is NOT guru. You MUST be authorized!" [Bg. 4.2]
"As for your next question, can only a pure devotee deliver others, ... anyone if he is a pure devotee he can deliver others, he can become spiritual master. But unless he is on that platform he should not attempt it. Then both of them will go to hell, like the blind man leading the blind." [letter to Tusta Krsna dasa, 12-14-72]
"Therefore, having a bona fide spiritual master and serving him, and pleasing him, and getting his mercy is essential. Otherwise there can be NO advancement in Krsna consciousness. And unless the spiritual master is a pure devotee of Krsna, then he has no potency to give Krsna. He is simply a cheating rascal!
So, in fact, above all the rules and regulations and offenses I have mentioned, the most important thing, the essential thing, which is required, if you want to come to the stage of purely chanting the Hare Krsna mantra,
is, you MUST have a bonafide spiritual master, who is a pure devotee of Krsna. Without having a bona fide spiritual master you can chant Hare Krsna forever, but will not be able to advance, because Krsna does
not reveal Himself in this way. He ONLY reveals Himself to those devotees who surrender to, and serve, and please His pure devotee!" [letter to his London disciples, July 1969]
"Unless one takes shelter of a bona fide, fully Krsna conscious spiritual master, there is no chance of understanding Krsna.... Only one who has surrendered to a pure devotee of Krsna , and has taken the dust of his lotus feet can understand Krsna..... One must take shelter of a self-realized spiritual master, that is the way to return home, back to Godhead." [SB 7.5.32 purport]
"It is illegal to become a spiritual master if one is unable to deliver the disciple". [S.B. 28.7]
May 28, 1977, Vrndavan
Satsvarupa Maharaja:"Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, PARTICULAR AT THE TIME WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US . We want to know how initiations would be conducted."
Srila Prabhupada:"Yes, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya." [ 'Officiating' is the performance of a function on behalf of another]
Tamal Krsna Maharaja: "Is that called ritvik-acarya?"
Srila Prabhupada: "Ritvik. Yes".
Gopta, the leaders of iskcon, the gbc, the sanyasis, and most of all, the "gurus", they have rejected outright a multitude of Srila Prabhupada's orders: "The order NOT to change his books; the order to sign the 'Oath of Allegience'; the order not to associate with his God brothers; the order to implement the "DOM"; the order to create self-sufficient farming communities; and most of all the order to continue the "ritvik initiation" process "Henceforth".
Outright rejection of, and even contradicting the orders, the very teachings of ones spiritual master I belief to the ultimate act of "being critical", of "finding fault" with the Acarya. And the following is what Srila Bhaktisiddhanta says of those who engage in such behavior:
"I do not want to see the faces of vile persons who criticize my Gurudeva, or who support those who criticize him. They are the cause of all inauspiciousness."
"May I never see the wicked face of that evil person who maligns [defames] the lotus feet of my Sri Gurudeva, or anyone who countenances [supports, approves] such a slanderer."
So, Gopta, do I want to engage with Patita in a debate on this issue? No, I don't think it would serve any purpose. Even if Srila Prabhupada gave me the intelligence, the right words and arguments to "defeat" Patita, I don't belief he would accept it. It would be like 'casting pearls before swines'.
This subject has been expertly debated and presented for years by prabhus much more qualified than me, and I am sure Patita, Bhakta Dasa, and all the other "enablers" have seen all the evidence,and they have heard all that can be said on this issue. Yet, they won't accept. "It is simple for the simple, and crooked for the crooked!"
It is ironic, the person Patita quotes, to support his argument, HH Puri Maharaja, not only had he publicly stated that iskcon's gurus are not "qualified" for their posts, but Puri Maharaja also can be heard on one of Siddhanta dasa's "Memory" tapes confirming Srila Prabhupada ordering for"ritviks" to succeed him after his departure.
In the debate on facebook, when confronted with the argument that over forty iskcon "gurus] have already 'fallen down', all Patita came back with is that this does not mean that 'they' are all unqualified. He is hereby proclaiming that Srila Prabhupada set up a system of "transcendental Russian Roulette", whereby the aspiring initiates in iskcon are to select a guru, while keeping their fingers crossed, hoping they chose one who is not going to fall down. Pure insanity, I say!
One of the main arguments of those rejecting the 'ritvik' system of initiations, is that it is "against tradition", that it is not part of our Sampradaya. And that Srila Prabhupada would never 'break' tradition. Never mind that he did, and that the Acarya has the authority to do so!
Instead, those ney-sayers insist that Srila Prabhupada set up a system by which unqualified, conditioned souls, still posessing unspeakable anarthas [pedophelia, homosexual behavior, whore-mongering, adultery, thieving, lying, and even the murdering of Vaisnavas, including the poisoning of their own spiritual master], that SP wanted such individuals to continue the disciplic succession, to continue being Acaryas in the Sampradaya. Is that the tradion, the behavior of spiritual masters in our, or any Sampradaya?
So, if Srila Prabhupada was faced with making some "practical" adjustment in the "tradition" of our Sampradaya, it shouldn't be difficult at all, which one he would choose!
I personally was there when Rohini Kumar Swami [one of iskcon's fallen gurus] related being present, in New York, when Srila Prabhupada was asked by a reporter, "who is going to be the next Acarya?" And Rohini Kumara told us that SP's answer was, "After me there won't be another Acarya." Hoping this finds you in progressing Krsna consciousness, your friend, Padmagarbha dasa