Sunday, June 30, 2013
RE: Uttama Sloka's (Ron Marinelli) "Realization of Your Eternal Identity" (jeeva tattva mash-up)
The Realization and Manifestation of Your Eternal Identity
by Ron Marinelli (Uttama sloka das)
Let me state for the record that my purpose in writing this book is not to make money from book sales, which is why I have made this book freely available to all Vaisnavas. I also have no intentions of using this book as a platform to establish myself as a diksa-guru and accept disciples. Nor am I trying to surpass any acaryas and their presentations, nor to improve upon them. There is no Vaisnava aparadha, guru aparadha, or ISKCON bashing in this book. It is my sincere Vaisnava seva and guru seva.
[PADA: OK fine except, when you claim in this book that we do not originate with Krishna in His lila or sport, you are trying to surpass the commentary given by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada on this very topic. You are writing a book which confutes the statements of our acharya? Why?
You are also confusing the whole topic (jeeva tattva) of our having an original PERSONAL connection to Krishna in His lila or sport; Our having an original personal rasa or loving relationship with Krishna; And our having an original position of service to Krishna (jivera swarupa haya -- nitya Krishna das) where we originated in the spiritual kingdom.
And you also fail to explain -- how we fell to here (as the mayavadis do as well)? Even the Christians have some better idea than yours. They at least know that Satan was once an important "leading angel" in the Kingdom of God. So we were all like that, we were all formerly important angels in the Kingdom of God, and we became envious of God, and thus fell from His Kingdom to become Satans.
There has to be some explanation for the cause for our fall down? And the cause of our fall is, envy of God. This is explained over and over by Srila Prabhupada, we became envious of Krishna, and that is the root cause of all our suffering. How did we become envious if we were not aware of who He is? This makes no sense.
You are also confusing the whole topic (jeeva tattva) of our having an original PERSONAL connection to Krishna in His lila or sport; Our having an original personal rasa or loving relationship with Krishna; And our having an original position of service to Krishna (jivera swarupa haya -- nitya Krishna das) where we originated in the spiritual kingdom.
And you also fail to explain -- how we fell to here (as the mayavadis do as well)? Even the Christians have some better idea than yours. They at least know that Satan was once an important "leading angel" in the Kingdom of God. So we were all like that, we were all formerly important angels in the Kingdom of God, and we became envious of God, and thus fell from His Kingdom to become Satans.
There has to be some explanation for the cause for our fall down? And the cause of our fall is, envy of God. This is explained over and over by Srila Prabhupada, we became envious of Krishna, and that is the root cause of all our suffering. How did we become envious if we were not aware of who He is? This makes no sense.
You are confusing the whole topic of our relationship with Krishna, while advertising that you are clearing it up? How can we clear up our relationship -- if we do not know what went wrong in our relationship with Krishna? Krishna loves us, full time and all the time, so who broke down that relationship? And then the falling process explained further, from our original envy of God, we deteriorated further into lust, anger, greed, loss of intelligence, loss of discrimination and so forth. "Buddhi nasa" -- loss of intelligence. How did all this get started in the first place? You have failed to give a reasoned explanation.
Anyway, goody for you, you are also not engaged in ISKCON bashing. OK, so does that mean you are one of the acquiesced people who has been compliant with the criminal take over of ISKCON? And were you one of those who acquiesced with the molester messiah's program? If people are going to "realize their eternal identity," the vehicle for that is supposed to be the ISKCON society. What happened to that vehicle? I am not seeing a track record of your protest of the regime that broke down ISKCON, albeit -- it may exist, but where is the paper trail of your protest of these criminals posing as ISKCON's messiahs? Please forward that to us if you have it.
Where have you been while ISKCON has been burnt to toast and made into a criminal enterprise? How can people re-establish their link to Krishna without the ISKCON society, the very vehicle that the acharya made for the process of advancing to Krishna? You are discussing linking to Krishna. Good! Apparently however -- you forgot how that was supposed to be done? We were supposed to do that con-jointly in our guru's society, not to allow Krishna's society hi-jacked by the molester messiahs project?
We were just interviewed for a TV show and that was one of the issues they wanted us to tell them about, how come only a few people were protesting the criminal take over? In short, where were were the "back up" people? Where were all the Uttamaslokas to help the protest? Well, apparently, our back up was too busy writing books about rasika-ness, while us devotees were being banned, beaten, molested and killed? And now the Narayan Maharaja people are printing their "Gopi Gita." Yes, after Narayana Maharaja supported the molester messiahs program, which had us banned, beat, molested and killed, these gopi-rasika people are now experts on gopi-ness? Really? The servants of the gopis are part of a support group of the criminal acharyas program, by omision or commission, as Narayana Maharaja was doing?]
==========================================
Brahmananda Puri Dasa: the cheaters fool themselves into thinking they are sincere....they are incapable of seeing the truth of their cheating desires. this applies to both cheaters and cheated.
PADA: Right, the Gaudiya Matha started the cheating guru business, and then people like Uttama Sloka went there and he decided they are higher authorities than Srila Prabhupada. So now he can challenge statements from Srila Prabhupada. ys pd
Brahmananda Puri Dasa: I'm not sure who you are referring to. Are you referring to Uttamasloka Dasa? What statements are you referring to, Tim?
Uttamasloka Dasa: Are you talking about me? I never went to anyone in the Gaudiya Matha - not Srila Narayana Maharaja nor Srila BR Sridhara Maharaja nor anyone else. Stop spreading lies. I never challenged any of Srila Prabhupada's statements in my book. I explained and validated them in their proper context related to the previous acaryas' teachings.
My book is based 100% on our Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas, whose books Srila Prabhupada encouraged us to study after studying his books, which I have done.
Every assertion I've made is fully backed up by these acaryas. If you have a problem with what is written by Rupa Gosvami, Jiva Gosvami, Sanatana Gosvami, Ramananda Raya, Lord Caitanya, Narottama Dasa Thakur, Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur or Bhaktivinoda Thakur, then that's something you'll have to come to terms with.
Mayesa Dasa Tim Lee you have misunderstood this verse. When Krsna appears on the core of heart one sees Him. He is sat-cit-ananda-so that is shared with the individual soul.
PADA: Dear Uttamasloka, ok Srila Prabhupada says we are all going "Back Home, Back to Godhead," and that we were originally in Krishna's lila or sport, you said that is not correct. That is also what the Gaudiya Matha says. And when me and Brahmananda Puri were discussing Uttamasloka's idea, I presented a whole bunch of quotes from Srila Prabhupada where he says the soul originates in Krishna's lila or sport, and he erased all of those quotes? If we are following Srila Prabhupada's ideas, why are we erasing his quotes? ys pd
Brahmananda Puri Dasa Because you are twisting them to suit your understanding, which, considering the WHOLE of Prabhupada's writings say otherwise. Well, I unblocked you to give you another chance Tim Lee, but it appears all you want to do is argue and hopefully not commit offenses against the devotees calling them names, etc. as you have done in many of your other posts.
Sila Salagram: SP Quotes:Srila Prabhupada: "As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are
covered by Maya. Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration. Therefore, many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time, it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. ...Unless one develops full devotional service to Krishna, he goes up only to brahma-sayujya but falls down. After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming.
Because he falls down from brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna."
(Part of a paper made by the GBC) "THE ORIGIN OF THE JIVA: BRAHMAJYOTI OR KRISHNA LILA", taken from an Australian conversation with Srila Prabhupada Transcribed as "Nectar of the Month," BBT Report, January, 1982.
"We have come from the spiritual world into this material world. We have forgotten our Father. So we have to revive this relationship with our Father, or God--or Krishna." Lecture, 10.07.75
"So, there is chance of falling down even from the personal association of God..." Room conversation, 9.19.73
"Yes. The conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus were with Krishna before being conditioned ...similarly, each soul has seen Krishna..." Letter to Jagadish, 2.25.70
Uttamasloka Dasa: Srila Prabhupada made many conflicting statements, so you can't just choose the one's you want and ignore the rest. That is not how we understand things properly. Plus, I did NOT say SP was incorrect. Do NOT distort my statements - that is dishonest and shows the weakness of your position. In that section of my book, I offered dozens of statements from our acaryas - not the Gaudiya Matha - whom SP represents, so we could objectively examine their statements as well.
Their statements contradict SP, not mine.
[PADA: OK, so you admit, you are in the business of finding quotes from some source or another to contradict Srila Prabhupada's statements.]
Uttamasloka: Sila Salagram: Here are some examples from my book, along with statements by SP that contradict what you presented.
After finishing their mock fighting, both the devotee and the Lord are again associated in the spiritual planets. That is very explicitly explained here. The conclusion is that “no one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planets, for it is the eternal abode”. SB, 3.16.26, Purport
Srila Prabhupada did make several rather conclusive statements in his purports to Sri Isopanisad, with no mention of being in the lila.
The all-pervading feature of the Lord-which exists in all circumstances of waking and sleeping as well as in potential states and from which the jiva-sakti (living force) is generated as both conditioned and liberated souls - is known as Brahman." SI, 16
Purport
As we have learned from previous mantras, the brahmajyoti emanating from the transcendental body of the Lord is full of spiritual sparks that are individual entities with the full sense of existence. Sometimes these living entities want to enjoy their senses, and therefore they are placed in the material world to become false lords under the dictation of the senses. SI, 17, Purport
Jaiva-dharma, Chapter 16, Jivas Possessed by Maya:
Babaji: …Innumerable jivas appear from Sri Baladeva Prabhu to serve Våndavana-vihari Sri Krsna as His eternal associates in Goloka Våndavana, and others appear from Sri Sankarsana to serve the Lord of Vaikuntha, Sri Narayana, in the spiritual sky.
Eternally relishing rasa, engaged in the service of their worshipable Lord, they always remain fixed in their constitutional position. They always strive to please Bhagavan, and are always attentive to Him. Having attained the strength of cit-sakti, they are always strong.
They have no connection with the material energy. In fact, they do not know if there is a bewildering energy called maya or not. Because they reside in the spiritual world, maya is very far away from them and does not affect them at all.
Always absorbed in the bliss of serving their worshipable Lord, they are eternally liberated and are free from material happiness and distress. Their life is love alone, and they are not even conscious of misery, death or fear.
There are also innumerable, atomic, conscious jivas who emanate as rays in Karanodakasayi Maha-Visnu’s glance upon His maya-sakti. Because these jivas are situated next to maya, they perceive her wonderful workings.
Although they have all the qualities of the jivas that I have already described, because of their minute and marginal nature, they sometimes look to the spiritual world, and sometimes to the material world. In this marginal condition, the jiva is very weak because at that time he has not attained spiritual strength from the mercy of the object of his worship (seva-vastu).
Among these unlimited jivas, those who want to enjoy maya become engrossed in mundane sense gratification and enter the state of nitya-baddha. On the other hand, the jivas who perform cid-anusilanam of Bhagavan receive spiritual sakti (cid-bala) by His mercy, and enter the spiritual world. JD, Chapter 16, Page 377-378
In Krsna Book, Srila Prabhupada also confirms the truth of a new beginning:
The mature devotees, who have completely executed Krsna consciousness, are immediately transferred to the universe where Krsna is appearing. In that universe the devotees get their “first opportunity to associate with Krsna personally and directly”. KB, Chapter 28, 6th paragraph
So it is not so cut and dried, and if you study the statements of the previous acaryas, you will not find one single confirming statement that we were with Krsna in His lila. There is absolutely no possibility of any material contamination existing in Vraja lila, so it is not possible for anyone there to become envious.
Brahmananda Puri Dasa: Also, it couldn't be any clearer than the prayer to the Spiritual Master, "I WAS BORN IN THE DARKNESS OF IGNORANCE".... can't argue with that.
PADA: OK, we all came from Krishna's lila or sport, whats to twist there? And that we do not originate there, that is the Gaudiya Matha's idea. And Srila Prabhupada says they are tinged with mayavada. Srila Prabhupada says we are GOING BACK TO HOME, Back To Godhead, ok that means -- we were once there. If I am going back to San Francisco, I was there before? Not going back home, bogus Gaudiya Matha said that, they criticized Srila Prabhupada, this Back To Godhead idea is bogus, yes, bogus Gaudiya Matha ideas. Why are we with them?
Vidura: Uttamasloka Dasa, why do you say Srila Prabhupada made many conflicting statements? And why do you say that our previous acharyas contradict some of Srila Prabhupada's statements? These are both very offensive things to say. There are no contradictions, maybe APPARENT contradictions, but no real contradictions.
And Srila Prabhupada cannot contradict Himself. That is not possible. He is above the three modes of material nature, and He is above the four defects. Perhaps you have not yet been able to comprehend all of the statements that Srila Prabhupada has made, or those of the previous acharyas for that matter.
Why do you all of a sudden think that you are on the level of spiritual realization as Srila Prabhupada? A submissive student may not understand everything at the time, but the student accepts the conclusion of the spiritual master in whatever subject matter. The conclusion that Srila Prabhupada gave us regarding our original position is that "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport." (Letter to: Madhudvisa -- Los Angeles 16 May, 1972)
And another simple but strong point made by PADA is that we are going BACK to Godhead. How can you therefore say that we were not once in Godhead? So it is easier to just accept the conclusions that Srila Prabhupada gave us instead of jumping all over the place and wasting our time and making offenses in the process.
Srila Prabhupada says:
"...best thing is that one should know he is in conditioned life and try to cure it. When a man is in diseased condition he should try to get out of diseased condition without harassing his brain when the disease has begun. But it is to be understood that the disease is not our constant companion, it is temporary. So the best thing is to cure the disease, and not waste our time to find out the date when it began. Forgetfulness of Krishna is the disease, so let us keep ourselves always in Krishna Consciousness, and get out of the disease, that is healthy life."
(Letter to: Aniruddha -- Los Angeles 14 November, 1968)
PADA: Uttama Sloka says: In that section of my book, I offered dozens of statements from our acaryas - not the Gaudiya Matha - whom SP represents, so we could objectively examine their statements as well. Their statements contradict SP, not mine.
[PD: So you are saying you are finding quotes to contradict the acharya? Writing a book with the purpose of contradicting what Srila Prabhupada says? That is what I thought you were saying. Srila Prabhupada said, we need to listen to the current acharya. You are finding "scholarly writings" to defeat Srila Prabhupada? Thats what Nitai was doing.
The Gaudiya Matha objected to the BACK TO GODHEAD idea of Srila Prabhupada, and so does Uttama das. Thats what I said at the start of all this, he is influenced by the Gaudiya Matha. And Srila Prabhupada said they do not believe in his Back To God idea because they are COVERT MAYAVADIS, they are "tinged with mayavada," that is what he told us in India. Good job Vidura, you are correct, this is an offense. ys pd]
Vidura: CHECK MATE.
PADA: Incidently, the Gaudiya Matha's Jaiva Dharam is one of the books we were told not to read because it was "edited after 1936 by my devious God brothers." Yep, bogus Gaudiya Matha ki jaya! ys pd
==========================================
Brahmananda Puri Dasa: the cheaters fool themselves into thinking they are sincere....they are incapable of seeing the truth of their cheating desires. this applies to both cheaters and cheated.
PADA: Right, the Gaudiya Matha started the cheating guru business, and then people like Uttama Sloka went there and he decided they are higher authorities than Srila Prabhupada. So now he can challenge statements from Srila Prabhupada. ys pd
Brahmananda Puri Dasa: I'm not sure who you are referring to. Are you referring to Uttamasloka Dasa? What statements are you referring to, Tim?
Uttamasloka Dasa: Are you talking about me? I never went to anyone in the Gaudiya Matha - not Srila Narayana Maharaja nor Srila BR Sridhara Maharaja nor anyone else. Stop spreading lies. I never challenged any of Srila Prabhupada's statements in my book. I explained and validated them in their proper context related to the previous acaryas' teachings.
My book is based 100% on our Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas, whose books Srila Prabhupada encouraged us to study after studying his books, which I have done.
Every assertion I've made is fully backed up by these acaryas. If you have a problem with what is written by Rupa Gosvami, Jiva Gosvami, Sanatana Gosvami, Ramananda Raya, Lord Caitanya, Narottama Dasa Thakur, Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur or Bhaktivinoda Thakur, then that's something you'll have to come to terms with.
Mayesa Dasa Tim Lee you have misunderstood this verse. When Krsna appears on the core of heart one sees Him. He is sat-cit-ananda-so that is shared with the individual soul.
PADA: Dear Uttamasloka, ok Srila Prabhupada says we are all going "Back Home, Back to Godhead," and that we were originally in Krishna's lila or sport, you said that is not correct. That is also what the Gaudiya Matha says. And when me and Brahmananda Puri were discussing Uttamasloka's idea, I presented a whole bunch of quotes from Srila Prabhupada where he says the soul originates in Krishna's lila or sport, and he erased all of those quotes? If we are following Srila Prabhupada's ideas, why are we erasing his quotes? ys pd
Brahmananda Puri Dasa Because you are twisting them to suit your understanding, which, considering the WHOLE of Prabhupada's writings say otherwise. Well, I unblocked you to give you another chance Tim Lee, but it appears all you want to do is argue and hopefully not commit offenses against the devotees calling them names, etc. as you have done in many of your other posts.
Sila Salagram: SP Quotes:Srila Prabhupada: "As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are
covered by Maya. Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration. Therefore, many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time, it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. ...Unless one develops full devotional service to Krishna, he goes up only to brahma-sayujya but falls down. After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming.
Because he falls down from brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna."
(Part of a paper made by the GBC) "THE ORIGIN OF THE JIVA: BRAHMAJYOTI OR KRISHNA LILA", taken from an Australian conversation with Srila Prabhupada Transcribed as "Nectar of the Month," BBT Report, January, 1982.
"We have come from the spiritual world into this material world. We have forgotten our Father. So we have to revive this relationship with our Father, or God--or Krishna." Lecture, 10.07.75
"So, there is chance of falling down even from the personal association of God..." Room conversation, 9.19.73
"Yes. The conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus were with Krishna before being conditioned ...similarly, each soul has seen Krishna..." Letter to Jagadish, 2.25.70
Uttamasloka Dasa: Srila Prabhupada made many conflicting statements, so you can't just choose the one's you want and ignore the rest. That is not how we understand things properly. Plus, I did NOT say SP was incorrect. Do NOT distort my statements - that is dishonest and shows the weakness of your position. In that section of my book, I offered dozens of statements from our acaryas - not the Gaudiya Matha - whom SP represents, so we could objectively examine their statements as well.
Their statements contradict SP, not mine.
[PADA: OK, so you admit, you are in the business of finding quotes from some source or another to contradict Srila Prabhupada's statements.]
Uttamasloka: Sila Salagram: Here are some examples from my book, along with statements by SP that contradict what you presented.
After finishing their mock fighting, both the devotee and the Lord are again associated in the spiritual planets. That is very explicitly explained here. The conclusion is that “no one falls from the spiritual world or Vaikuntha planets, for it is the eternal abode”. SB, 3.16.26, Purport
Srila Prabhupada did make several rather conclusive statements in his purports to Sri Isopanisad, with no mention of being in the lila.
The all-pervading feature of the Lord-which exists in all circumstances of waking and sleeping as well as in potential states and from which the jiva-sakti (living force) is generated as both conditioned and liberated souls - is known as Brahman." SI, 16
Purport
As we have learned from previous mantras, the brahmajyoti emanating from the transcendental body of the Lord is full of spiritual sparks that are individual entities with the full sense of existence. Sometimes these living entities want to enjoy their senses, and therefore they are placed in the material world to become false lords under the dictation of the senses. SI, 17, Purport
Jaiva-dharma, Chapter 16, Jivas Possessed by Maya:
Babaji: …Innumerable jivas appear from Sri Baladeva Prabhu to serve Våndavana-vihari Sri Krsna as His eternal associates in Goloka Våndavana, and others appear from Sri Sankarsana to serve the Lord of Vaikuntha, Sri Narayana, in the spiritual sky.
Eternally relishing rasa, engaged in the service of their worshipable Lord, they always remain fixed in their constitutional position. They always strive to please Bhagavan, and are always attentive to Him. Having attained the strength of cit-sakti, they are always strong.
They have no connection with the material energy. In fact, they do not know if there is a bewildering energy called maya or not. Because they reside in the spiritual world, maya is very far away from them and does not affect them at all.
Always absorbed in the bliss of serving their worshipable Lord, they are eternally liberated and are free from material happiness and distress. Their life is love alone, and they are not even conscious of misery, death or fear.
There are also innumerable, atomic, conscious jivas who emanate as rays in Karanodakasayi Maha-Visnu’s glance upon His maya-sakti. Because these jivas are situated next to maya, they perceive her wonderful workings.
Although they have all the qualities of the jivas that I have already described, because of their minute and marginal nature, they sometimes look to the spiritual world, and sometimes to the material world. In this marginal condition, the jiva is very weak because at that time he has not attained spiritual strength from the mercy of the object of his worship (seva-vastu).
Among these unlimited jivas, those who want to enjoy maya become engrossed in mundane sense gratification and enter the state of nitya-baddha. On the other hand, the jivas who perform cid-anusilanam of Bhagavan receive spiritual sakti (cid-bala) by His mercy, and enter the spiritual world. JD, Chapter 16, Page 377-378
In Krsna Book, Srila Prabhupada also confirms the truth of a new beginning:
The mature devotees, who have completely executed Krsna consciousness, are immediately transferred to the universe where Krsna is appearing. In that universe the devotees get their “first opportunity to associate with Krsna personally and directly”. KB, Chapter 28, 6th paragraph
So it is not so cut and dried, and if you study the statements of the previous acaryas, you will not find one single confirming statement that we were with Krsna in His lila. There is absolutely no possibility of any material contamination existing in Vraja lila, so it is not possible for anyone there to become envious.
Brahmananda Puri Dasa: Also, it couldn't be any clearer than the prayer to the Spiritual Master, "I WAS BORN IN THE DARKNESS OF IGNORANCE".... can't argue with that.
PADA: OK, we all came from Krishna's lila or sport, whats to twist there? And that we do not originate there, that is the Gaudiya Matha's idea. And Srila Prabhupada says they are tinged with mayavada. Srila Prabhupada says we are GOING BACK TO HOME, Back To Godhead, ok that means -- we were once there. If I am going back to San Francisco, I was there before? Not going back home, bogus Gaudiya Matha said that, they criticized Srila Prabhupada, this Back To Godhead idea is bogus, yes, bogus Gaudiya Matha ideas. Why are we with them?
Vidura: Uttamasloka Dasa, why do you say Srila Prabhupada made many conflicting statements? And why do you say that our previous acharyas contradict some of Srila Prabhupada's statements? These are both very offensive things to say. There are no contradictions, maybe APPARENT contradictions, but no real contradictions.
And Srila Prabhupada cannot contradict Himself. That is not possible. He is above the three modes of material nature, and He is above the four defects. Perhaps you have not yet been able to comprehend all of the statements that Srila Prabhupada has made, or those of the previous acharyas for that matter.
Why do you all of a sudden think that you are on the level of spiritual realization as Srila Prabhupada? A submissive student may not understand everything at the time, but the student accepts the conclusion of the spiritual master in whatever subject matter. The conclusion that Srila Prabhupada gave us regarding our original position is that "Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport." (Letter to: Madhudvisa -- Los Angeles 16 May, 1972)
And another simple but strong point made by PADA is that we are going BACK to Godhead. How can you therefore say that we were not once in Godhead? So it is easier to just accept the conclusions that Srila Prabhupada gave us instead of jumping all over the place and wasting our time and making offenses in the process.
Srila Prabhupada says:
"...best thing is that one should know he is in conditioned life and try to cure it. When a man is in diseased condition he should try to get out of diseased condition without harassing his brain when the disease has begun. But it is to be understood that the disease is not our constant companion, it is temporary. So the best thing is to cure the disease, and not waste our time to find out the date when it began. Forgetfulness of Krishna is the disease, so let us keep ourselves always in Krishna Consciousness, and get out of the disease, that is healthy life."
(Letter to: Aniruddha -- Los Angeles 14 November, 1968)
PADA: Uttama Sloka says: In that section of my book, I offered dozens of statements from our acaryas - not the Gaudiya Matha - whom SP represents, so we could objectively examine their statements as well. Their statements contradict SP, not mine.
[PD: So you are saying you are finding quotes to contradict the acharya? Writing a book with the purpose of contradicting what Srila Prabhupada says? That is what I thought you were saying. Srila Prabhupada said, we need to listen to the current acharya. You are finding "scholarly writings" to defeat Srila Prabhupada? Thats what Nitai was doing.
The Gaudiya Matha objected to the BACK TO GODHEAD idea of Srila Prabhupada, and so does Uttama das. Thats what I said at the start of all this, he is influenced by the Gaudiya Matha. And Srila Prabhupada said they do not believe in his Back To God idea because they are COVERT MAYAVADIS, they are "tinged with mayavada," that is what he told us in India. Good job Vidura, you are correct, this is an offense. ys pd]
Vidura: CHECK MATE.
PADA: Incidently, the Gaudiya Matha's Jaiva Dharam is one of the books we were told not to read because it was "edited after 1936 by my devious God brothers." Yep, bogus Gaudiya Matha ki jaya! ys pd
Singapore / Montreal / Fiji / Stonehenge / Narayan Mj -- Updates 6/30/2013
[ Biggest Ratha festival in the world outside of India is in Singapore ]
http://prabhupadanugas.blogspot.com/2013/06/prabhupadanugas-ratha-yatra-singapore.html
Montreal Ratha Festival (video): http://youtu.be/uO3-zaG8ovc
http://prabhupadanugas.blogspot.com/2013/06/prabhupadanugas-montreal-ratha-yatra.html
FIJI update: http://prabhupadanugas.blogspot.com/2013/06/vedic-village-review-25.html
Devotees at Stonehenge: http://www.itv.com/news/topic/wiltshire/
Star becomes devotee: http://www.irishcentral.com/ent/Once-star-becomes-a-Hare-Krishna-.html
New updates: http://vidya-vani.blogspot.com/2013/06/o-expert-and-thoughtful-men-relish-s-r.html
NARYAN MAHARAJA CAMP BECOMES SECTARIAN
There is a slow poison being introduced into Srila Gurudeva's sanga via many inlets, but especially during the speaking of Hari Katha, when all ears and hearts are open and accepting. It is clearly opposed to the siddhanta preached in Shastra. And it is clearly opposed to the example that Srila Gurudeva set by his own actions.
It clearly opposes one of the prominent teachings of Srila Gurudeva on Bhagavata Guru Parampara.
Most of us have heard it, and most of us don't do anything about it, either due to shyness or fear of questioning "senior" Vaishnavas.
For those of you who have listened to Srila Gurudeva's Harikatha over the years, I request you to debate the validity of the following statement: "Those who go to any other Mahabhagavata outside of our sanga are making aparadha to Srila Gurudeva."
Yes! This was spoken publicly to an audience of 1000 devotees by a "senior" Vaisnava in our sanga. And since that time, it has taken on many similar forms, coming from many mouths, and yet the message remains the same. I would like to open up a discussion on this issue with relevant quotes from Srila Gurudeva and evidence from Tattva Siddhanta.
[PADA: Right, first the Narayana Maharaja people said: we can all go outside the ISKCON camp to listen to other Vaishnavas, but some of their big leaders now say, no one should go outside their camp? Is this hypocrisy? ys pd]
======================================
My dear Lord, one who earnestly waits for You to bestow Your causeless mercy upon him, all the while patiently suffering the reactions of his past misdeeds and offering You respectful obeisances with his heart, words and body, is surely eligible for liberation, for it has become his rightful claim.
Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.14.8
Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.14.8
Saturday, June 29, 2013
How Bhakta das (William Benedict) ruined Krishna's name worldwide
[Dear Bhakta Jo Jo, Thanks for your sending me your comment about this article that: -- The GBC gurus are exploiters of ISKCON; Bhakta das is a criminal gangster who exploited ISKCON by using it as a vehicle for his drug business; And Mukunda das illuminati pada (oldham UK) is exploiting ISKCON by using it as a vehicle to promote and sell his bogus illuminati DVDs. When will Jesus drive these money changers from the temple? Hee hee, brilliant prabhu. Thanks pd]
PADA: If we want to know how ISKCON has became a criminal operation, all we have to do is look at one example (out of many such criminals) who filtered into ISKCON, such as Bhakta Das aka William Benedict. He has recently emerged as one of PADA's biggest critics. No wonder, he is one of the people who has been turning Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON into a criminal operation and giving ISKCON a a bad name in the public media worldwide. And now Bhakta das and his pal Swarup Hebel are ganging up to "defeat PADA"? And they are ganging up along with illuminati pada Mukunda das to "bring down pada." Hee hee! This is like watching the Saturday morning cartoon shows.
I sincerely wish them good luck with that, since we have all kinds of public media, police reports, court accounts, and many devotee eye - witnesses to back up our version of events.
Bhakta das has more recently been in Bangkok Thailand, with his pal Guru Kripa. Guru Kripa told me when he visited me in Santa Cruz in the early 1980s, the that anyone who went to the Gaudiya Matha was betraying Srila Prabhupada, was supporting bogus gurus since Srila Prabhupada said they are not fit to be gurus, and they were surrendering to the enemies of Srila Prabhupada. Guru Kripa also told me there is "a bunch of fags (homosexuals)" running ISKCON and acting as its gurus."
Of course, a few years later Bhakta Das and Guru Kripa went straight to -- the Gaudiya Matha, and they began to write letters to PADA saying we were in illusion for not supporting the Gaudiya Matha's "gurus." Guru Kripa had actually shown me the 1974 Rupanuga letter where Srila Prabhupada said -- none of my God brothers are fit to be acharyas, then he countermanded Srila Prabhupada and said, the God brothers are acharyas. That means he (and Bhakta das) are knowingly defying the statements of the acharya. Clearly, Bhakta das and Guru Kripa think they are superiors to Srila Prabhupada, so they can openly defy his direct orders.
Bhakta and Guru Kripa's Gaudiya Matha guru was BV Puri maharaja, who was later on the big cheer leader / supporter / apologist of GBC's annointed guru, Gopal Krishna swami. So that means these people are knowingly supporting their -- "a bunch of fags" -- guru parampara? Why are these people knowingly trying to make the children of ISKCON worship a guru lineage that contains -- homosexuals, pedophiles, and orchestrators of the murder of Vaishnavas? And after folks like Bhakta, Swarup Hebel, illuminati pada Mukunda das, etc. had the ISKCON children worship that molester messiah guru lineage by omission or commission, they blame PADA that the children have been turning against Krishna?
And Swarupa Hebel is also currently associated with many of these Gaudiya Matha compromisers as well. Yep, we need to be associated with the Gaudiya Matha's bogus acharyas founder fathers, who created the 1936 homosexual pooja. And then the same deviated Gaudiya Matha folks became supporters of the post 1977 bogus GBC's homosexual pedophile pooja. Then we wonder why there has been crimes of all types, mass molesting, murders and such? These people already know how all this malefic influence filtered into ISKCON -- when they look into a mirror every day.
Of course Bhakta das also started to tell us we needed to work with the GBC / ISKCON gurus like Trivrikrama swami. We need to "work with" the people who are voted in as gurus at the reinstatement of known homosexual pedophile acharyas, like Trivrikrama was?
Bhakta das' current associate is still Guru Kripa, who told me he had become almost an alcoholic and had "completely surrendered to maya." OK so while PADA is addressing all kinds of problems, these people are drinking and having a booze party?
When I met Bhakta das in the USA on a visit from Bangkok some years ago he said he was "f**king his brains out with the prostitutes there." Ok, so I am working to get rid of the criminality in ISKCON, including mass child molesting, and Bhakta das is out sporting in Bangkok bars having a party, while children are being mass molested? And he is associating with the people who are promoting the molester messiahs program like Trivrikrama swami?
Here is one of the instances where Bhakta das business "Balarama Enterprises" was raided by the Federal Authorities:
http://federal-circuits.vlex.com/vid/spaces-visalia-nescco-balarama-38430791
[This is the Federal court record of charges against Balarama Enterprises]
PADA: Bhakta Das aka William Benedict was, according to the court report above, selling "cocaine substitutes" (procaine)? These are also known as "designer drugs." Of course this is not an activity for any devotee of Krishna. According to Sulochana das, Bhakta das was also selling these drugs to agents from New Vrndavana (to finance and support Kirtanananda), and all of them were selling these designer drugs all over the USA as Sulochana told me. After Bhakta das business was "busted" by the Federal authority, this story was in the newspapers giving Hare Krishna a bad name as a criminal operation. Did we forget to mention that Sulochana was murdered for exposing these frauds?
Designer drugs are also well known to have very unpredictable effects, and are known to cause people awful side effects, such as having nervous breakdowns / nervous disorders, permanent mental problems, and of course sometimes people commit crimes including murders when taking these drugs, due to the mentally unstable condition these drugs can produce. Then again, some people sometimes simply die from these drugs since the chemicals in them have powerful effects on the body. Worse, some folks simply commit suicide after taking these drugs.
Designer drugs are well know to be "very dangerous":
http://www.examiner.com/article/designer-drugs-are-extremely-dangerous
Why are we making money by increasing others miseries? This is the same problem we have with Mukunda das illuminati pada of Oldham England, he is selling bogus illuminati DVDs, which simply make people more miserable, paranoid and full of anxiety. These people are making money by spreading misery on a mass scale.
And this is how Bhakta das was making his money? And after destroying people's lives with drugs, he and his pal Swarup are now the chief apologists for the criminal enterprise? And after publicly ruining Krishna's name in the news medias ALL OVER THE WORLD, Bhakta das is now emerging as PADA's advisor?
Bhakta das did not learn his lesson from having his place busted in the USA, later on Bhakta das was arrested in Puri India:
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2005-05-05/india/27864266_1_plea-drugs-racket-fbi
...inositol, quinine, procaine and mannitol - used for preparing heroin and cocaine.
PADA: If we want to know how ISKCON has became a criminal operation, all we have to do is look at one example (out of many such criminals) who filtered into ISKCON, such as Bhakta Das aka William Benedict. He has recently emerged as one of PADA's biggest critics. No wonder, he is one of the people who has been turning Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON into a criminal operation and giving ISKCON a a bad name in the public media worldwide. And now Bhakta das and his pal Swarup Hebel are ganging up to "defeat PADA"? And they are ganging up along with illuminati pada Mukunda das to "bring down pada." Hee hee! This is like watching the Saturday morning cartoon shows.
I sincerely wish them good luck with that, since we have all kinds of public media, police reports, court accounts, and many devotee eye - witnesses to back up our version of events.
Bhakta das has more recently been in Bangkok Thailand, with his pal Guru Kripa. Guru Kripa told me when he visited me in Santa Cruz in the early 1980s, the that anyone who went to the Gaudiya Matha was betraying Srila Prabhupada, was supporting bogus gurus since Srila Prabhupada said they are not fit to be gurus, and they were surrendering to the enemies of Srila Prabhupada. Guru Kripa also told me there is "a bunch of fags (homosexuals)" running ISKCON and acting as its gurus."
Of course, a few years later Bhakta Das and Guru Kripa went straight to -- the Gaudiya Matha, and they began to write letters to PADA saying we were in illusion for not supporting the Gaudiya Matha's "gurus." Guru Kripa had actually shown me the 1974 Rupanuga letter where Srila Prabhupada said -- none of my God brothers are fit to be acharyas, then he countermanded Srila Prabhupada and said, the God brothers are acharyas. That means he (and Bhakta das) are knowingly defying the statements of the acharya. Clearly, Bhakta das and Guru Kripa think they are superiors to Srila Prabhupada, so they can openly defy his direct orders.
Bhakta and Guru Kripa's Gaudiya Matha guru was BV Puri maharaja, who was later on the big cheer leader / supporter / apologist of GBC's annointed guru, Gopal Krishna swami. So that means these people are knowingly supporting their -- "a bunch of fags" -- guru parampara? Why are these people knowingly trying to make the children of ISKCON worship a guru lineage that contains -- homosexuals, pedophiles, and orchestrators of the murder of Vaishnavas? And after folks like Bhakta, Swarup Hebel, illuminati pada Mukunda das, etc. had the ISKCON children worship that molester messiah guru lineage by omission or commission, they blame PADA that the children have been turning against Krishna?
And Swarupa Hebel is also currently associated with many of these Gaudiya Matha compromisers as well. Yep, we need to be associated with the Gaudiya Matha's bogus acharyas founder fathers, who created the 1936 homosexual pooja. And then the same deviated Gaudiya Matha folks became supporters of the post 1977 bogus GBC's homosexual pedophile pooja. Then we wonder why there has been crimes of all types, mass molesting, murders and such? These people already know how all this malefic influence filtered into ISKCON -- when they look into a mirror every day.
Of course Bhakta das also started to tell us we needed to work with the GBC / ISKCON gurus like Trivrikrama swami. We need to "work with" the people who are voted in as gurus at the reinstatement of known homosexual pedophile acharyas, like Trivrikrama was?
Bhakta das' current associate is still Guru Kripa, who told me he had become almost an alcoholic and had "completely surrendered to maya." OK so while PADA is addressing all kinds of problems, these people are drinking and having a booze party?
When I met Bhakta das in the USA on a visit from Bangkok some years ago he said he was "f**king his brains out with the prostitutes there." Ok, so I am working to get rid of the criminality in ISKCON, including mass child molesting, and Bhakta das is out sporting in Bangkok bars having a party, while children are being mass molested? And he is associating with the people who are promoting the molester messiahs program like Trivrikrama swami?
Here is one of the instances where Bhakta das business "Balarama Enterprises" was raided by the Federal Authorities:
http://federal-circuits.vlex.com/vid/spaces-visalia-nescco-balarama-38430791
[This is the Federal court record of charges against Balarama Enterprises]
PADA: Bhakta Das aka William Benedict was, according to the court report above, selling "cocaine substitutes" (procaine)? These are also known as "designer drugs." Of course this is not an activity for any devotee of Krishna. According to Sulochana das, Bhakta das was also selling these drugs to agents from New Vrndavana (to finance and support Kirtanananda), and all of them were selling these designer drugs all over the USA as Sulochana told me. After Bhakta das business was "busted" by the Federal authority, this story was in the newspapers giving Hare Krishna a bad name as a criminal operation. Did we forget to mention that Sulochana was murdered for exposing these frauds?
Designer drugs are also well known to have very unpredictable effects, and are known to cause people awful side effects, such as having nervous breakdowns / nervous disorders, permanent mental problems, and of course sometimes people commit crimes including murders when taking these drugs, due to the mentally unstable condition these drugs can produce. Then again, some people sometimes simply die from these drugs since the chemicals in them have powerful effects on the body. Worse, some folks simply commit suicide after taking these drugs.
Designer drugs are well know to be "very dangerous":
http://www.examiner.com/article/designer-drugs-are-extremely-dangerous
Why are we making money by increasing others miseries? This is the same problem we have with Mukunda das illuminati pada of Oldham England, he is selling bogus illuminati DVDs, which simply make people more miserable, paranoid and full of anxiety. These people are making money by spreading misery on a mass scale.
And this is how Bhakta das was making his money? And after destroying people's lives with drugs, he and his pal Swarup are now the chief apologists for the criminal enterprise? And after publicly ruining Krishna's name in the news medias ALL OVER THE WORLD, Bhakta das is now emerging as PADA's advisor?
Bhakta das did not learn his lesson from having his place busted in the USA, later on Bhakta das was arrested in Puri India:
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2005-05-05/india/27864266_1_plea-drugs-racket-fbi
FBI's most wanted is now in India
NEW DELHI: "Poppy priest" William George Benedict, alleged kingpin of an organised drugs racket in the US, remains pre-occupied with prayers in his Tihar cell.
It doesn't seem that his prayers are being answered though, as FBI and other law enforcement agencies in the US appear be to inching closer to him, with ministry of external affairs' assistance.
The "poppy priest," as the fugitive is allegedly known to investigators, is wanted for drug-related charges in the State of Maryland in the US. And now, the veils of suspense over his escape from the US to India and his alleged membership of ISKCON and conversion to Hinduism appear to be coming off.
The latest blow came when a city court, examining the US agencies' request for his extradition, rejected his bail plea. Satish Aggarwala, prosecutor for government, opposed the plea and said: "Benedict, if granted bail, may abscond and may never be available for questioning."
This could mean that the merits of the extradition plea may well be considered.
This was the second time that Benedict alias Bhakta Das, whose organisation in the US allegedly sold chemicals used in processing illegal drugs worth $6,00,000 in the 1980s, had sought bail.
Benedict based his plea on the grounds that the offences for which he was wanted invited death penalty in the US and as per the Indo-US treaty, he could not be extradited.
He was also arrested in 1989 in California when his organisation was found selling...
'Bhakta Das' is a self-proclaimed member of ISKCON and claims he is in India for preaching Krishna's teachings.
Aggarwala, however, claimed that Benedict deliberately fabricated cheating and other cases against himself in Orissa and other cities to earn a wanted tag in India.
"It seems he wanted to be involved in court cases in India to avoid extradition to the US," said Aggarwala.
One such fabricated case related to cheating a devotee in Behrampur in Orissa by collecting Rs 20,000 and promising to take him abroad for preaching Krishna's teachings.
Benedict was, till recently, lodged in Puri jail. He was shifted to Tihar in January after extradition proceedings were initiated against him.
To stall his extradition to the US, Benedict even claimed that his wife was based in Orissa and that he had built a temple in West Bengal, said Aggarwala.
Friday, June 28, 2013
Thursday, June 27, 2013
Investigation Discovery channel "Hare Krishna" show update
http://investigation.discovery.com/tv-shows/deadly-devotion/deadly-devotion-videos/krishna-recruiting.htm
Deadly Devotion: Krishna Recruiting : Video : Investigation Discoveryinvestigation.discovery.com
20-year-old Steve Bryant thinks he's found his calling among the peaceful, robe-wearing Hare Krishna community.
**** Prabhu, is this just the preview of the full episode yet to come?
PADA: Yes, its a short preview. The show had already interviewed GBC people, so I wanted to add at least some input from "the other side of the story" otherwise the GBC version would have not been challenged properly. ys pd
**** Prabhu, Ah. Thank you. It's gonna be an interesting episode. Can't wait! And I definitely agree! Good thing they found you so that you could set the record straight! So July 2nd is the full episode right?
Haribol!
PADA: July 2nd, at 9pm California time. I am not sure what the time will be in other USA states. Its Channel 260 on ATT U-Verse here in San Francisco area, Investigation Discovery Channel. There is another ad on TV, shows Kirtananda's picture and says, he was worshiped as the messiah, pretty much what happened. ys pd
Deadly Devotion: Krishna Recruiting : Video : Investigation Discoveryinvestigation.discovery.com
20-year-old Steve Bryant thinks he's found his calling among the peaceful, robe-wearing Hare Krishna community.
**** Prabhu, is this just the preview of the full episode yet to come?
PADA: Yes, its a short preview. The show had already interviewed GBC people, so I wanted to add at least some input from "the other side of the story" otherwise the GBC version would have not been challenged properly. ys pd
**** Prabhu, Ah. Thank you. It's gonna be an interesting episode. Can't wait! And I definitely agree! Good thing they found you so that you could set the record straight! So July 2nd is the full episode right?
Haribol!
PADA: July 2nd, at 9pm California time. I am not sure what the time will be in other USA states. Its Channel 260 on ATT U-Verse here in San Francisco area, Investigation Discovery Channel. There is another ad on TV, shows Kirtananda's picture and says, he was worshiped as the messiah, pretty much what happened. ys pd
Wednesday, June 26, 2013
ISKCON is no longer a preaching mission? (Krishna Kirti and One ISKCON)
Krishna Kirti on ONEISKCON site
ISKCON’S Ideology part 5
[Excerpts from “A Brief Exploration of the History of ISKCON’s Social and Ideological Conflicts and their Significance for ISKCON’s Emerging Constitution” By Krishna-kirti Das on the Appearance Day of Sri Advaitacharya, 13 February 2008, Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA.]
Then One Iskcon's folks ask: why is ISKCON fracturing into pieces, when they are the very same people making these fractures by dividing people into various guru camps. Where is the structure of authority here? There is none. Of course this leads to all kinds of problems, people can reject the ISKCON guru authority system when it suits them, and start their own guru tattva process, whimsically. This is already what is going on all over India, independent maverick gurus. And now, One Iskcon ALSO says, we can have independent maverick gurus and disciples as well, all over ISKCON.
ISKCON’S Ideology part 5
[Excerpts from “A Brief Exploration of the History of ISKCON’s Social and Ideological Conflicts and their Significance for ISKCON’s Emerging Constitution” By Krishna-kirti Das on the Appearance Day of Sri Advaitacharya, 13 February 2008, Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA.]
PADA: Krishna kirti das has ALREADY had "an ideological conflict" with ISKCON's gurus, such as Hrdayananda swami. Krishna Kirti already said that he could not agree with his "guru" on the "gay marriage" issue. Krishna Kirti thus ended up rejecting his "ISKCON guru." Why do the One Iskcon folks continue to promote the GBC's guru system, and its gurus like Hrdayananda, when they do not even accept that their own "gurus" and their process is bona fide? That means: the public (and us, the mass of devotees) should continue to be fooled into worship of One ISkcon's false gurus, and accept their false gold gurus, but One Iskcon refuses to buy their own product? Used car salesmen?
And why is One Iskcon's web site saying, we can challenge the guru and the Vaishnava parampara -- whenever we feel like it? One Iskcon is openly promoting anarchy from the guru parampara. Anyone who decides the instructions of guru are not to their liking, can reject the instructions of the guru. Anarchy from the parampara? One Iskcon never explains, why are they teaching people to oppose the gurus -- that they are simultaneously -- promoting?
Either that, or they have no idea what the parampara is? In any case, this is teaching people the wrong idea, (A) we have to accept that ISKCON and its guru parampara are authorized, but (B) whenever we feel like it, we can reject the iskcon guru parampara and launch our own idea, and become self-made gurus.
Runs like a new Cadillac!
And why is One Iskcon's web site saying, we can challenge the guru and the Vaishnava parampara -- whenever we feel like it? One Iskcon is openly promoting anarchy from the guru parampara. Anyone who decides the instructions of guru are not to their liking, can reject the instructions of the guru. Anarchy from the parampara? One Iskcon never explains, why are they teaching people to oppose the gurus -- that they are simultaneously -- promoting?
Either that, or they have no idea what the parampara is? In any case, this is teaching people the wrong idea, (A) we have to accept that ISKCON and its guru parampara are authorized, but (B) whenever we feel like it, we can reject the iskcon guru parampara and launch our own idea, and become self-made gurus.
Then One Iskcon's folks ask: why is ISKCON fracturing into pieces, when they are the very same people making these fractures by dividing people into various guru camps. Where is the structure of authority here? There is none. Of course this leads to all kinds of problems, people can reject the ISKCON guru authority system when it suits them, and start their own guru tattva process, whimsically. This is already what is going on all over India, independent maverick gurus. And now, One Iskcon ALSO says, we can have independent maverick gurus and disciples as well, all over ISKCON.
Of course this also means, we should buy a nice new Cadillac from One Iskcon, except all they are selling is -- broken down Ford Pintos? Krishna Kirti has become a cheating a used car salesman, he takes a car he ALREADY knows is bad and broken down, and he advertises it as a new car. He is not accepting the GBC guru system himself, but he is telling others they should. Is this not hypocrisy and cheating?
Incidently Hrdayananda invited one of our friends up to his place. He started going on and on and on, how more than ten years ago, he and other GBC gurus knew many people were leaving ISKCON, and so he was heading up a committee to bring these people back. Hardly any one is coming back, what happened?]
KK: Some influential ISKCON members as well as scholars both within and outside of ISKCON have made statements that underscore the conquest of Western culture. One sign of this is the shift in emphasis away from confrontation with ISKCON’s Western host culture. In the book The Hare Krishna Movement: Forty Years of Chant and Change, ISKCON devotee and director of the Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies Shaunaka Rishi Das is quoted thus:
The greatest jewel in the crown of ISKCON is the deity worship. . . but the devotees don’t yet know it. . . Krishna, Lord of senses, is worshipped with the senses. It is deity worship rather than book distribution or any other activity that that [sic] is the real jewel of ISKCON.
Srila Prabhupada’s books contain innumerable criticisms of modern civilization. No matter how nicely these books are distributed, at some level distributing them is necessarily confrontational. A shift in ISKCON’s emphasis away from book distribution toward Deity worship significantly avoids confrontation with ISKCON’s Western host culture and ends ISKCON’s primary identity as a preaching mission.
[PADA: The current GBC policies: ends ISKCON's identity as a preaching mission? And why are we going to the "Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies" at all? Srila Prabhupada said he does not want his mission to become a Hindu-ized hodge podge. Yet this is a good analysis, ISKCON is developing more and more as a Hindu cultural center program, and is walking back from its original root ideas of, harinama samkirtana, books, preaching, prasadam programs and so on. The Gaudiya Matha did the same thing, and Srila Prabhupada said they had a "showing of the deity business." Their preaching was stunted, they had some Hindus coming to give money to see the deity, same exact process as has now overtaken ISKCON.]
KK: Furthermore, the direction of intellectual and religious change in ISKCON has significantly been from the direction of Western culture to ISKCON but not significantly from the direction of ISKCON to Western culture. In her recent essay “For Love of Krishna, Dr. Anna S. King observes that within ISKCON,
... "scholarly devotees whose faith is undisputed have for a decade or more been applying perspectives derived from the wider society — postmodernist, feminist, pluralist, textual-historical, etc.—to Prabhupada’s transplanted and literalist tradition ( e.g. Goswami and Valpey 2004).
[PADA: Right, Tamal "Goswami" transplanted all kinds of Westernized ideas into ISKCON, for starters, by saying that the acharyas need to go to a Christian college. The paper cited is an example of the bogus GBC's teaching that acharyas need to attend mundane colleges to get bogus degrees and certificates.]
KK: This statement is also interesting because of the opposition King sets up between “perspectives derived from the wider society” and “Prabhupada’s transplanted and literalist tradition.” This opposition is significant because the perspectives King mentions (and others she implies) variously emphasize the subjective point of view more so than literalist traditions. The opposition is between the subjective and the objective, between humanism and theism.
[PADA: Tamal literally said that Bhavananda and Narayana Maharaja are his two favorite people on the planet. One was in charge of the molester messiahs program -- which was molesting children, and NM was teaching gopi rasika to the molester messiahs program. Why are these types of people like Tamal being cited as scholars and authorities by One Iskcon? One Iskcon often says they oppose Narayana Maharaja, but they cite the biggest cheer leader followers of NM, like Tamal? More hypocrisy.]
KK: This notion of the practitioner being the implied “final arbiter” (final interpreter among other interpreters) and being an active agent that “inevitably reinvents tradition” stands in stark contrast to Srila Prabhupada’s notion of the practitioner as a submissive recipient of tradition. In his introduction to Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Srila Prabhupada describes the method of submissive acceptance through the analogy of taking medicine:
[PADA: OK, except One Iskcon is acting as the final arbiter. They say for example that Hrdayananda is one of the Lord's messiah from heaven, and he can absorb sins like Jesus because he is a diksha guru, ok that is what One Iskcon wants you fools out there to accept, but personally, they think Hrdayananda is a deviant. So they are acting as their own authority, they promote what they say are fools as their messiahs, and in the back room, they do not accept their own messiahs. So they are making up all these rules as they go along. You have to accept their counterfeit money, they do not.]
KK: Goswami and Das, however, respond to anticipated objections to their alternative notion of the practitioner as a fourth, implied authority who inevitably reinterprets and reinvents tradition.
[PADA: That is what One Iskcon is doing, reinterpreting the tradition. In the real tradition, no gurus have supported gay marriage. No disciples have had to oppose their gurus for doing that. No one has ever rejected a guru for being a deviant, and then promoted the same bogus guru and his lineage anyway, as One Iskcon does, acting like extreme hypocrites. And so on. So One Iskcon has re-invented the tradition.]
KK: In the same way, if tradition’s “end user” is also granted a significant say in what the words left behind by guru, sadhu, and shastra mean, then it is possible that “legitimate” interpretations of tradition may not necessarily reflect the authorial intent of the guru, the sadhus, or of authors of shastra itself.
[PADA: Oneiskcon supports a guru lineage that is chock full of illicit sex with men, women and children, no guru, no sadhu, and no shastra supports their idea.]
KK: Indeed, Goswami and Das’s reinterpretation of Gaudiya Vaishnava theology was undertaken especially for the sake of rectifying some of ISKCON’s internal social problems. This purpose appears to have been the starting point for their own reinterpretation of tradition, and arriving at some of their conclusions would have been impossible through Srila Prabhupada’s own approach.
[PADA: OK, so Tamal is a speculator, and he is also the founder father of the One Iskcon / Danavir's guru line? Anyway yes, we think that shastra is literal, anyone who imitates the acharyas goes to the lowest planets in the universe. We agree with that idea. ys pd]
KK: Some influential ISKCON members as well as scholars both within and outside of ISKCON have made statements that underscore the conquest of Western culture. One sign of this is the shift in emphasis away from confrontation with ISKCON’s Western host culture. In the book The Hare Krishna Movement: Forty Years of Chant and Change, ISKCON devotee and director of the Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies Shaunaka Rishi Das is quoted thus:
The greatest jewel in the crown of ISKCON is the deity worship. . . but the devotees don’t yet know it. . . Krishna, Lord of senses, is worshipped with the senses. It is deity worship rather than book distribution or any other activity that that [sic] is the real jewel of ISKCON.
Srila Prabhupada’s books contain innumerable criticisms of modern civilization. No matter how nicely these books are distributed, at some level distributing them is necessarily confrontational. A shift in ISKCON’s emphasis away from book distribution toward Deity worship significantly avoids confrontation with ISKCON’s Western host culture and ends ISKCON’s primary identity as a preaching mission.
[PADA: The current GBC policies: ends ISKCON's identity as a preaching mission? And why are we going to the "Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies" at all? Srila Prabhupada said he does not want his mission to become a Hindu-ized hodge podge. Yet this is a good analysis, ISKCON is developing more and more as a Hindu cultural center program, and is walking back from its original root ideas of, harinama samkirtana, books, preaching, prasadam programs and so on. The Gaudiya Matha did the same thing, and Srila Prabhupada said they had a "showing of the deity business." Their preaching was stunted, they had some Hindus coming to give money to see the deity, same exact process as has now overtaken ISKCON.]
KK: Furthermore, the direction of intellectual and religious change in ISKCON has significantly been from the direction of Western culture to ISKCON but not significantly from the direction of ISKCON to Western culture. In her recent essay “For Love of Krishna, Dr. Anna S. King observes that within ISKCON,
... "scholarly devotees whose faith is undisputed have for a decade or more been applying perspectives derived from the wider society — postmodernist, feminist, pluralist, textual-historical, etc.—to Prabhupada’s transplanted and literalist tradition ( e.g. Goswami and Valpey 2004).
[PADA: Right, Tamal "Goswami" transplanted all kinds of Westernized ideas into ISKCON, for starters, by saying that the acharyas need to go to a Christian college. The paper cited is an example of the bogus GBC's teaching that acharyas need to attend mundane colleges to get bogus degrees and certificates.]
KK: This statement is also interesting because of the opposition King sets up between “perspectives derived from the wider society” and “Prabhupada’s transplanted and literalist tradition.” This opposition is significant because the perspectives King mentions (and others she implies) variously emphasize the subjective point of view more so than literalist traditions. The opposition is between the subjective and the objective, between humanism and theism.
[PADA: Tamal literally said that Bhavananda and Narayana Maharaja are his two favorite people on the planet. One was in charge of the molester messiahs program -- which was molesting children, and NM was teaching gopi rasika to the molester messiahs program. Why are these types of people like Tamal being cited as scholars and authorities by One Iskcon? One Iskcon often says they oppose Narayana Maharaja, but they cite the biggest cheer leader followers of NM, like Tamal? More hypocrisy.]
KK: This notion of the practitioner being the implied “final arbiter” (final interpreter among other interpreters) and being an active agent that “inevitably reinvents tradition” stands in stark contrast to Srila Prabhupada’s notion of the practitioner as a submissive recipient of tradition. In his introduction to Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Srila Prabhupada describes the method of submissive acceptance through the analogy of taking medicine:
[PADA: OK, except One Iskcon is acting as the final arbiter. They say for example that Hrdayananda is one of the Lord's messiah from heaven, and he can absorb sins like Jesus because he is a diksha guru, ok that is what One Iskcon wants you fools out there to accept, but personally, they think Hrdayananda is a deviant. So they are acting as their own authority, they promote what they say are fools as their messiahs, and in the back room, they do not accept their own messiahs. So they are making up all these rules as they go along. You have to accept their counterfeit money, they do not.]
KK: Goswami and Das, however, respond to anticipated objections to their alternative notion of the practitioner as a fourth, implied authority who inevitably reinterprets and reinvents tradition.
[PADA: That is what One Iskcon is doing, reinterpreting the tradition. In the real tradition, no gurus have supported gay marriage. No disciples have had to oppose their gurus for doing that. No one has ever rejected a guru for being a deviant, and then promoted the same bogus guru and his lineage anyway, as One Iskcon does, acting like extreme hypocrites. And so on. So One Iskcon has re-invented the tradition.]
KK: In the same way, if tradition’s “end user” is also granted a significant say in what the words left behind by guru, sadhu, and shastra mean, then it is possible that “legitimate” interpretations of tradition may not necessarily reflect the authorial intent of the guru, the sadhus, or of authors of shastra itself.
[PADA: Oneiskcon supports a guru lineage that is chock full of illicit sex with men, women and children, no guru, no sadhu, and no shastra supports their idea.]
KK: Indeed, Goswami and Das’s reinterpretation of Gaudiya Vaishnava theology was undertaken especially for the sake of rectifying some of ISKCON’s internal social problems. This purpose appears to have been the starting point for their own reinterpretation of tradition, and arriving at some of their conclusions would have been impossible through Srila Prabhupada’s own approach.
[PADA: OK, so Tamal is a speculator, and he is also the founder father of the One Iskcon / Danavir's guru line? Anyway yes, we think that shastra is literal, anyone who imitates the acharyas goes to the lowest planets in the universe. We agree with that idea. ys pd]
Sunday, June 23, 2013
Swarupa Hebel / Mukunda dasa (Mark Whitley) Prahlad das oppose PADA
FOLLOW UP ARTICLE FOUND HERE:
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2013/07/dear-gavin-and-prahlad-das-re-is.html
Mukunda dasa / Mark Whitley --- [aka prabhupada.org.uk -- Manchester / Oldham England]:
A small group of burnt remnants of sinister I.S.K.CON. led by Puranjana dasa who's supposed aim is to defend Prabhupada from defamation (Prabhupada Anti Defamation Association) but who actually work with various blasphemers who blame Srila Prabhupada for the crimes of sinister I.S.K.CON.
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2013/07/dear-gavin-and-prahlad-das-re-is.html
Mukunda dasa / Mark Whitley --- [aka prabhupada.org.uk -- Manchester / Oldham England]:
A small group of burnt remnants of sinister I.S.K.CON. led by Puranjana dasa who's supposed aim is to defend Prabhupada from defamation (Prabhupada Anti Defamation Association) but who actually work with various blasphemers who blame Srila Prabhupada for the crimes of sinister I.S.K.CON.
[PADA: First of all Mukunda beats up his own wife and she has to go to the police for help. Then he divorces her because she is complaining about being beaten. Then he goes to Vrndavana to have sex with a young woman there, and the children in the next room are hearing all the bumping and grinding and sex groans. And Prahlad das says we are offensive for not promoting this woman beating and sex in the holy dham program.
Sorry, we have to go to the police to deal with you guys, you attack women. Srila Prabhupada says people who have sex in the holy dham are no better than hogs and dogs, and they take birth as hogs and dogs. The GBC gurus have sex in the holy dham and so does this Mukunda program? Yes as a matter of fact, we have to go outside to curb you women and children attackers.
"Various" people were interested in helping ISKCON's molesting victims, who were starting to commit suicide? Nope. Hardly no one was interested at all. Windle Turley said we cannot allow them to commit suicide, and he helped. There were no various other people even interested in the issue? If "various other people" had taken steps to fix this, then Windle Turley would not have had to be involved at all.
PADA editor was also the person who made the audio and transcripts available of the poison case, and other folks (ok Mukunda das) have just copied (hi-jacked) our materials and posted on his site. I also sent the tape which eventually discovered the whispers, and so on and so forth. So we do all the heavy lifting, they take the credit, is that not what the GBC does?
Anyway, the people who blasphemed Srila Prabhupada in the Windle Turley case were -- the (ex) children of ISKCON. And they were trained up to think the GBC gurus were AUTHORIZED by SRILA PRABHUPADA -- by people like Sanat (Steve Voith) and Mukunda (Mark Whitely?). So let us get this straight, the people who polluted the children with these bogus ideas, ok like Sanat and Mukunda, are blaming us for polluting the children with these bogus ideas? Sorry, we were not there anymore, we were booted out in 1979. The people who brain washed the children were -- Sanat and Mukunda and ilk.
Sorry! This propaganda had nothing to do with us.
We were booted out of ISKCON in 1979, and had made our views clear to one and all, that we did not approve of these gurus, and that these gurus had NOT been APPOINTED by Srila Prabhupada. The persons who brain washed the poor ISKCON children into thinking Srila Prabhupada had authorized all these bogus gurus are -- people like Sanat and Mukunda. Thus, the people who helped cause the problems, are blaming us -- for causing the problems? Very handy!
When the Turley child molesting case was filed, Sanat and Mukunda wrote to DALLAS court people saying, these children need to be killed, chopped up and fed to dogs. Which simply proved to the court, and to the molestation victims, that there are so-called Hare Krishnas out there -- who hate children -- and would kill children if not for the legal enforcement process. Therefore Sanat and Mukunda simply convinced all kinds of people that there is an aggressive anti-children program afoot here. And by their doing that, it cut off one of our major communication lines to the children. Sanat and Mukunda said, we were wasting time trying to preach to these children, they just need to die.
How does that help things along?
Sanat and Mukunda wanted to convince the court that there are a number of Hare Krishnas out there who want to -- kill these ex-children victims of molesting? Their idea was and is, lets murder the molesting victims. And they stated that in public documents. That is their way of fixing things? And when some of the victims found out Sanat and Mukunda wanted to have them killed, they just got all the more wound up against Krishna. Again, not helping anything.
Sanat and Mukunda wanted to convince the court that there are a number of Hare Krishnas out there who want to -- kill these ex-children victims of molesting? Their idea was and is, lets murder the molesting victims. And they stated that in public documents. That is their way of fixing things? And when some of the victims found out Sanat and Mukunda wanted to have them killed, they just got all the more wound up against Krishna. Again, not helping anything.
Anyway, we now have thousands of people who worship Srila Prabhupada on our team, whereas Mukunda das is the burnt out group. We are advertising all kinds of positive preaching programs all the time, whereas Mukunda is advertising for, and selling DVDs for, the illuminati. Talk about nut jobs!
In any case, Mukunda das is now making money off selling illuminati DVDs, books and tapes, and this is all total speculation. He is selling beef eating speakers to make money. And its simply creating more and more fear and anxiety for people. He is making people feel increased anxiety, he is not helping them. And he is making money by spreading this mundane fear and paranoia process. At least we are advertising some positive preaching programs.]
==================================
Swarup Hebel When Puranjana declared war on me and spent a week focusing on what a horrible demon I am (for not fully agreeing with everything he believes to be absolutely true and also for suggesting that he was being less than truthful in many instances) .... I sent a link to his MySpace to a friend who teaches psychology at UCLA and asked him what he thought.
In any case, Mukunda das is now making money off selling illuminati DVDs, books and tapes, and this is all total speculation. He is selling beef eating speakers to make money. And its simply creating more and more fear and anxiety for people. He is making people feel increased anxiety, he is not helping them. And he is making money by spreading this mundane fear and paranoia process. At least we are advertising some positive preaching programs.]
==================================
Swarup Hebel When Puranjana declared war on me and spent a week focusing on what a horrible demon I am (for not fully agreeing with everything he believes to be absolutely true and also for suggesting that he was being less than truthful in many instances) .... I sent a link to his MySpace to a friend who teaches psychology at UCLA and asked him what he thought.
[PADA: Right, myself and Sulochana were out there risking our lives to expose the bogus gurus, and save the children from mass molesting and so on. Meanwhile, people like Swarup Hebel admitted to us, he was out of commission, and taking heavy duty drugs. How did that help ISKCON? He was not helping us at all, rather he was helping himself -- get high on drugs. And so the banning, beating, molesting and murders problems simply got worse because he and others were not helping us contain these issues. We discuss this very issue on the Jvalamukhi tape, we were not getting help from people like Swarup, this made all the problems become compounded.]
Swarup Hebel: After reading Lee's rants he got back to me with a response. He said that it was very apparent that the guy was a pathological liar, a paranoid sociopath, a narcissist and suffered from a severe case of arrested development (i.e. had the emotional maturity of a twelve year old angry boy). To say the least he has an exaggerated sense of his own intelligence and importance and the fact that he has somehow acquired admirers and followers only serves to fan the fires of his increasingly irrational, vocal (and annoying) personality and behavior.
[PADA: Right, again -- when all the banning, beating, child molesting and murders went on in ISKCON, as soon as I said there is a problem here, people like Swarup Hebel said -- its all lies, these dissenting people are making it all up. Swarup Hebel thereby caused these crimes to get worse by oppressing those of us who were exposing the crimes. And now, he is proud -- he suppressed us -- and aided and abetted all these crimes? And now that we are forwarding things like the poison issue, Swarup and Mukunda das want to oppress us, and help the poisoners? Calling is liars and offenders, great, this is how people like Swarup get us folks beaten and killed all along since 1977.]
Swarup Hebel: One observation I've had is that people like this Das Anudas who run around the internet repeating and emulating Tim Lee so often never exhibit an actual photo of themselves or reveal anything about who they are.
Swarup Hebel: One observation I've had is that people like this Das Anudas who run around the internet repeating and emulating Tim Lee so often never exhibit an actual photo of themselves or reveal anything about who they are.
[PADA: The FBI told us not to post photos of ouselves because, because we could get killed by Swarup's dangerous cult goondas. They know that -- not only is Swarup Hebel a nut bag -- but that his program is dangerously nut bags. Deadly in fact. Yep, Swarup thinks banning, beating, molesting and murders are like some kindergarten children playing in a sand box, no problem at all. And if we would get killed, he would be doing the happy dance because -- when we expose bogus ISKCON, we expose the compromiser like him and his pals.]
Swarup Hebel: I get the feeling that they are either hiding something or maybe we're dealing with the same person with multiple facebook accounts.
[PADA: This is paranoid delusions, I only have one facebook account.]
Swarup Hebel: Or maybe they actually have multiple personality disorder. It's so distasteful how they misuse Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy as weapons and have no problem invoking the Holy Name of the Lord, Srila Prabhupada and all the previous acaryas in our line to support their childish tantrums.
[PADA: Right, banning, beating, mass molesting of thousands of children, and murders, this is all some foolish lies, and childish nonsense. In other words, Swarup could care less if people are being banned, beaten, molested and killed, its simply a childish nuisance for him.]
Swarup Hebel: Who are these crazies and where do they come from? When I joined ISKCON even the "nuts" were sweet, amiable and respectful to others. This new breed who dwell on the Internet for hours a day screaming and yelling are something else altogether. Makes me sick. Makes me sad. Makes me angry.
[PADA: Right, banning, beating, mass molesting of thousands of children, and murders, this is all some foolish lies, and childish nonsense. In other words, Swarup could care less if people are being banned, beaten, molested and killed, its simply a childish nuisance for him.]
Swarup Hebel: Who are these crazies and where do they come from? When I joined ISKCON even the "nuts" were sweet, amiable and respectful to others. This new breed who dwell on the Internet for hours a day screaming and yelling are something else altogether. Makes me sick. Makes me sad. Makes me angry.
[PADA: Right, banning, beating, molesting and killing the devotees, and we are exposing that, and he is angry at those of us who are protesting. That means, Swarupa is de facto aiding and abetting them. Swarup did nothing to help us, we could have got killed. Apparently, the only reason he is angry now is, that he and his program did not get us factually killed, and so we are still kicking and alive, and on the internet. And we are testifying in court. And we are on TV. Etc. So, he is upset that we are exposing all the evil leaders and the compliant compromizers with the evil doers, ok like him. ys pd]
$400m lawsuit: http://youtu.be/TS2fhPefAFQ
Help devotees in July 4th parade (Mount Vernon, WA)
Hare Krsna Everyone,
Please accept our humble obeisances with all glories to Srila Prabhupada.
This year we are participating in 4th July Parade in Mountvernon, WA USA to celebrate/ distribute Krsna’s names Prasaadam and lots of Prabhupada books.
We cordially invite everyone to join us in this auspicious life time opportunity to please Guru and Gauranga….cause there is nothing much we can do to please Them other than distributing this Nectar/treasure that Srila Prabhupada has mercifully given to us.
We look forward to dancing/chanting and hearing from you. If you plan on visiting from another country/town and state – we will have plenty of living and prasaad arrangements for you and your friends/family members - Here is an even information
http://krishnaconsciousnessmovement.com/?ai1ec_event=4th-july-hare-krsna-parade&instance_id=
Kindly RSVP
Damaghosa Das
360.856.5411
or KanhaiyaDasAnudas
425.508.7138
"I will never die. I shall live from my books, and you will utilize."
Please accept our humble obeisances with all glories to Srila Prabhupada.
This year we are participating in 4th July Parade in Mountvernon, WA USA to celebrate/ distribute Krsna’s names Prasaadam and lots of Prabhupada books.
We cordially invite everyone to join us in this auspicious life time opportunity to please Guru and Gauranga….cause there is nothing much we can do to please Them other than distributing this Nectar/treasure that Srila Prabhupada has mercifully given to us.
ya idam paramam guhyam mad-bhaktesv abhidhasyati bhaktim mayi param krtva mam evaisyaty asamsayah
TRANSLATION
For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.
“……Anyone, however, who tries sincerely to present Bhagavad-gita as it is will advance in devotional activities and reach the pure devotional state of life. As a result of such pure devotion, he is sure to go back home, back to Godhead.”
We look forward to dancing/chanting and hearing from you. If you plan on visiting from another country/town and state – we will have plenty of living and prasaad arrangements for you and your friends/family members - Here is an even information
http://krishnaconsciousnessmovement.com/?ai1ec_event=4th-july-hare-krsna-parade&instance_id=
Kindly RSVP
Damaghosa Das
360.856.5411
or KanhaiyaDasAnudas
425.508.7138
Hari Bol
Your Humble Servant
-Kanhaiya DasAnudas
"He reason ill who tells that Vaisnavas die, When thou art living still in sound!
The Vaisnavas die to live, and living try, To spread the Holy Name around !"
The Vaisnavas die to live, and living try, To spread the Holy Name around !"
(Poem by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura)
"I will never die. I shall live from my books, and you will utilize."
His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
(Interview, July 16th, 1975, Berkeley, California)
More devotees preaching independently (Gauridasa pandit report)
Atmarama Prabhu from Spain just had a Great Kirtan Concert at the Siva Temple Farm in Grass Valley CaL. Tonight. He is traveling all over America and the world expenses paid by the Siva Temples. Atmarama told me that ISKCON has all the big gurus and they don't need him; so he does most of his events outside of ISKCON.
I heard about the concert earlier today when I was at a shopping center and I heard someone yell out HariboL! It was FB Friend Annabelle Younger who drove three hours from her home in Nevada with her mother and two kids. She was so happy to see devotees in such a small town. She kept saying, "See how Krsna works!" Sending us to meet her and all go to Atmarama's concert.
I was very impressed with his performance. It was all old school ISKCON Kirtans. He started out with Srila Prabhupada's Pranam Mantras, then the Pancatattva Mahamantra and the Hare Krsna Mahamantra quite a few times. He talked nicely and not too much. His classical guitar playing was exceptional adding interesting embellishments to the chanting. He started out playing the Harmonium and finished out with the guitar. By the time it ended many devotees were off their asanas dancing like jubilant peacocks. So it was a great way to end an already good/God day. Guru, Sastra and Sadhu's Ki Jaya! \o/
I heard about the concert earlier today when I was at a shopping center and I heard someone yell out HariboL! It was FB Friend Annabelle Younger who drove three hours from her home in Nevada with her mother and two kids. She was so happy to see devotees in such a small town. She kept saying, "See how Krsna works!" Sending us to meet her and all go to Atmarama's concert.
I was very impressed with his performance. It was all old school ISKCON Kirtans. He started out with Srila Prabhupada's Pranam Mantras, then the Pancatattva Mahamantra and the Hare Krsna Mahamantra quite a few times. He talked nicely and not too much. His classical guitar playing was exceptional adding interesting embellishments to the chanting. He started out playing the Harmonium and finished out with the guitar. By the time it ended many devotees were off their asanas dancing like jubilant peacocks. So it was a great way to end an already good/God day. Guru, Sastra and Sadhu's Ki Jaya! \o/
Saturday, June 22, 2013
Bombay vs Bangalore ISKCON analysis (Dayaram das / Jayapataka swami et al.)
ISKCON (reg.) Mumbai to Appeal ICAI Decision
BY: DAYARAM DASA
======================
PADA: Dayaram is a follower of Jayapataka swami, who is the -- founder father -- of the child molester acharya's regime. Dayaram has emerged as the biggest defender of that guru lineage, but he has apparently told people he is aware that his guru lineage contains all kinds of deviations. I wrote to his web site once and they replied, well yes, we know all about the bogus GBC's gurus deviations. OK, so why still support that lineage? This is what baffles us, they know their guru program is full of defects, deviations, perversions, even criminals, and who knows what other abominations -- and they still defend that guru lineage. Why?
That means, these Dayaram folks and other people are knowingly defending a bogus gurus lineage (just like Danavir recently admits he KNOWS he is defending a bogus guru lineage). That certainly saves the Yamaduttas a lot of time. They do not have to even ask, "did you commit these sins knowingly"? Nope, these people already admitted that they are defending a molester messiahs program -- knowingly.
Jayapataka is a messiah because -- he orchestrated the "management" behind the mass starving and abuse of many of the children in ISKCON's schools. And he was eating as much as a pack of fifty pigs. Thus, he weighed as much as five elephants. As a result, he had a massive STROKE, from over-eating. This is DAYARAMA'S MESSIAH, and Bhakti Vikas swami's "sannyasa guru." Fat-as-a-circus tent mahajara, also founder father of the deviants for messiah's club. As soon as Dayarama finds a nice founder father of the molester acharya's club, he licks his boots, he has found his master!
And now Dayaram is defending their odious "guru sick session," because he actually believes the world -- and its children -- need to worship their illicit sex messiahs project. Meanwhile he says, he knows about their deviations. That simply means, he is a sick individual himself, because he is knowingly deviating.
He wants the world to worship illicit sex -- as its messiahs lineage -- for what reason? And he has dedicated his life to making the children of the world worship his illicit sex acharya's process. Of course we also have other assorted apologists / scholars like Danavir, Bhakti Vikas swami, Bhakti Shushir Katote, Jayadvaita swami (Jay Israel), Hrdayananda swami etc., who also defend this regime, and who are its apologists/ cheer leaders / supporters / followers etc.
BY: DAYARAM DASA
======================
PADA: Dayaram is a follower of Jayapataka swami, who is the -- founder father -- of the child molester acharya's regime. Dayaram has emerged as the biggest defender of that guru lineage, but he has apparently told people he is aware that his guru lineage contains all kinds of deviations. I wrote to his web site once and they replied, well yes, we know all about the bogus GBC's gurus deviations. OK, so why still support that lineage? This is what baffles us, they know their guru program is full of defects, deviations, perversions, even criminals, and who knows what other abominations -- and they still defend that guru lineage. Why?
That means, these Dayaram folks and other people are knowingly defending a bogus gurus lineage (just like Danavir recently admits he KNOWS he is defending a bogus guru lineage). That certainly saves the Yamaduttas a lot of time. They do not have to even ask, "did you commit these sins knowingly"? Nope, these people already admitted that they are defending a molester messiahs program -- knowingly.
JAYAPATAKA SWAMI.
Jayapataka is a messiah because -- he orchestrated the "management" behind the mass starving and abuse of many of the children in ISKCON's schools. And he was eating as much as a pack of fifty pigs. Thus, he weighed as much as five elephants. As a result, he had a massive STROKE, from over-eating. This is DAYARAMA'S MESSIAH, and Bhakti Vikas swami's "sannyasa guru." Fat-as-a-circus tent mahajara, also founder father of the deviants for messiah's club. As soon as Dayarama finds a nice founder father of the molester acharya's club, he licks his boots, he has found his master!
And now Dayaram is defending their odious "guru sick session," because he actually believes the world -- and its children -- need to worship their illicit sex messiahs project. Meanwhile he says, he knows about their deviations. That simply means, he is a sick individual himself, because he is knowingly deviating.
He wants the world to worship illicit sex -- as its messiahs lineage -- for what reason? And he has dedicated his life to making the children of the world worship his illicit sex acharya's process. Of course we also have other assorted apologists / scholars like Danavir, Bhakti Vikas swami, Bhakti Shushir Katote, Jayadvaita swami (Jay Israel), Hrdayananda swami etc., who also defend this regime, and who are its apologists/ cheer leaders / supporters / followers etc.
What the Dayaram program does not know is, even if they would spend two hundred trillion dollars on endless lawsuits to promote their illicit sex messiah's pooja idea, the world is not ever going to interested in their worship of an illicit sex guru lineage. Ever! Its just not going to happen! These people are simply dreaming in color. The world is not EVER going to accept their idea of worship of illicit sex messiahs, despite all the GBC gurus and their endless propaganda, lawsuits, or whatever effort they want to make. Their idea is doomed from the get go.
Anyway, this is all moving in our favor no matter what. More people are now starting to look at the bogus GBC's guru program that is behind all these harassing techniques, and more people are figuring out what we figured out a long time ago, these people are corrupt, and their idea of worship of illicit sex, is Satanic. Which is also why Jvalamukhi and others are hinting, or sometimes even starting to ask publicly, is the GBC guru program a child sacrifice demon process?
Well anyway, history is unforgiving, as the saying goes. So, they will all be exposed in time, and are being exposed every day as time goes on. We are winning. Anyway, court cases are the way the same group of Kali chelas ran down the Gaudiya Matha, they sold the printing press to pay lawyers, and our GBC gurus are doing exactly the same thing proving, they are also Kali chelas. ys pd
The good news is, as the bogus GBC's goondas like Dayaram das try to force people to worship their illicit sex messiahs program, by their gangster process of contrived excommunication, coercion, lawsuits and their endless supply of other bully boy tactics, including having our devotees beaten and killed, the end result is -- more and more people are becoming disgusted, and they are rejecting, resisting and opposing these folks.
And, more folks are -- no small amount of -- exposing them. For example I recently talked to a nice Hindu couple and their teen age children from Delhi, and told them the whole story from top to bottom, and their jaws dropped. They could not believe the levels of deviation going on with this group. So they will go back to India and talk to their friends ... and so on and so forth. So its merely a question of time and everyone will know, because time is on our side.
And thus more and more people every day are joining with our idea, there never was any "guru reform." Nothing has improved, and in sum -- the GBC's gurus are just as much the same gangster thug bullies they always were. Thus, more and more people are alienating from the GBC's gurus. And in fact, more folks than ever are cursing and cussing at these GBC gurus, in part thanks to Dayarama and these lawsuits -- which is alienating another huge wave of people away from the GBC's guru process. The GBC has already created the impression that they are bullies, and this lawsuit -- simply cements in that idea in stone. It convincing people all the more -- yes, they are bullies.
And, more folks are -- no small amount of -- exposing them. For example I recently talked to a nice Hindu couple and their teen age children from Delhi, and told them the whole story from top to bottom, and their jaws dropped. They could not believe the levels of deviation going on with this group. So they will go back to India and talk to their friends ... and so on and so forth. So its merely a question of time and everyone will know, because time is on our side.
And thus more and more people every day are joining with our idea, there never was any "guru reform." Nothing has improved, and in sum -- the GBC's gurus are just as much the same gangster thug bullies they always were. Thus, more and more people are alienating from the GBC's gurus. And in fact, more folks than ever are cursing and cussing at these GBC gurus, in part thanks to Dayarama and these lawsuits -- which is alienating another huge wave of people away from the GBC's guru process. The GBC has already created the impression that they are bullies, and this lawsuit -- simply cements in that idea in stone. It convincing people all the more -- yes, they are bullies.
GOONDA BULLY COMMITTEE (GBC)
In other words, Dayarama is giving us the best argument we could have possibly had, to prove our statement: the GBC's gurus are bullies. A lot of people did not believe us -- when we told them that the GBC's gurus are bullies, that they have had no actual reform, and so on. Yet as of today, thousands of more people now do believe us, in part thanks to Dayarama and his lawsuit.
Its convincing more and more people every day, we were (and are) right when we say -- these people are goondas. And its making thousands more people reject the GBC gurus and their authority system, with more folks rejecting every day. We are thus getting more confirming e-mails, phone calls, skype calls etc., all the time, with people saying, yep, they are the the goonda enforcers of the molester messiah's program, now using vicious sharp lawyer's teeth. Many folks are not even surprised anymore.
The lawsuit has simply convinced more and more people to withdraw their support for the GBC gurus and their programs and projects. And instead, to support our programs and projects. Even Amuburish prabhu is fried with this lawsuit program, and he thinks the bad media publicity all over India is making other supporters withdraw help, service and monetary support. Correct, the more the GBC tries to force people to accept their bogus pooja program by coercion, the more supporters they will lose, and they are losing more supporters daily.
Its convincing more and more people every day, we were (and are) right when we say -- these people are goondas. And its making thousands more people reject the GBC gurus and their authority system, with more folks rejecting every day. We are thus getting more confirming e-mails, phone calls, skype calls etc., all the time, with people saying, yep, they are the the goonda enforcers of the molester messiah's program, now using vicious sharp lawyer's teeth. Many folks are not even surprised anymore.
The lawsuit has simply convinced more and more people to withdraw their support for the GBC gurus and their programs and projects. And instead, to support our programs and projects. Even Amuburish prabhu is fried with this lawsuit program, and he thinks the bad media publicity all over India is making other supporters withdraw help, service and monetary support. Correct, the more the GBC tries to force people to accept their bogus pooja program by coercion, the more supporters they will lose, and they are losing more supporters daily.
That is natural psychology, people will reject coercion tactics. So this is actually quite a blessing in disguise for us. We could not normally get so many people to vehemently resist the GBC's authority with such tremendous grit and determination, as many are now. That means, the GBC's gurus and their clones came along to help us, they are spending $15,000,000 to harass us vaishnavas with lawsuits, and this is giving us a great "cause celebre" to show everyone how the GBC gurus are simply gangster bullies. That ends up helping our cause.
The GBC gurus could not find any shastra to convince us to worship their illicit sex guru process, so now they foolishly think they will be able to convince us -- if they sue us. Nope! Its back-firing, the lawsuit is convincing more and more people that the bogus GBC's program are unrepentant bullies, and that it is indeed a fact: they are a bogus molester messiah's program, otherwise they would try to convince us by shastra and reason, but they cannot.
The lawsuit proves that. They have a few weak scholars, ok like Danavir, Bhakti Vikas swami, Sushir Katote etc., but none of them has even a teeny clue how to debate with us. As soon as we say, homosexual pedophile guru programs are bogus, they are totally stopped and stumped. Lawsuits are the only option left for them.
And more and more people are realizing that. These fools have not even got a shred of shastra to defend their idea that debauchees and child molesters are in a parampara chain of God's successors, so there is no support for their main pillar ideas -- from shastra. That means, in one sense, they have to sue us, there is no other way for them to defend their bogus ideas -- except -- to make some convoluted property dispute, since they lost the siddhanta dispute a long time ago. That means they are on the run. As Srila Prabhupada says, these Kali chelas will use the INDIA courts to establish their bogus acharyas, but they are simply disciples of Kali Yuga. And Kali Yuga wants people to worship illicit sex, so they have the defenders of their regime coming forward with lawsuits, since they could not debate any form of shastra with a dead turtle.
The GBC gurus could not find any shastra to convince us to worship their illicit sex guru process, so now they foolishly think they will be able to convince us -- if they sue us. Nope! Its back-firing, the lawsuit is convincing more and more people that the bogus GBC's program are unrepentant bullies, and that it is indeed a fact: they are a bogus molester messiah's program, otherwise they would try to convince us by shastra and reason, but they cannot.
The lawsuit proves that. They have a few weak scholars, ok like Danavir, Bhakti Vikas swami, Sushir Katote etc., but none of them has even a teeny clue how to debate with us. As soon as we say, homosexual pedophile guru programs are bogus, they are totally stopped and stumped. Lawsuits are the only option left for them.
And more and more people are realizing that. These fools have not even got a shred of shastra to defend their idea that debauchees and child molesters are in a parampara chain of God's successors, so there is no support for their main pillar ideas -- from shastra. That means, in one sense, they have to sue us, there is no other way for them to defend their bogus ideas -- except -- to make some convoluted property dispute, since they lost the siddhanta dispute a long time ago. That means they are on the run. As Srila Prabhupada says, these Kali chelas will use the INDIA courts to establish their bogus acharyas, but they are simply disciples of Kali Yuga. And Kali Yuga wants people to worship illicit sex, so they have the defenders of their regime coming forward with lawsuits, since they could not debate any form of shastra with a dead turtle.
And their continual process of harassing us is making more, if not most devotees, to put it bluntly, hate the GBC all the more. Almost everyone we know of is praying for the day they will all simply all die and go to hell as soon as possible. A big problem for them is, when thousands and thousands of Vaishnavas are praying that you will die and go to hell, Krishna tends to fulfill the wishes of His devotees.
Of course, almost everyone hated these bogus people ALREADY for their creating all the banning, beating, molesting and murders they had done previously. So all they are doing now is digging their hole deeper, by giving us greater and greater wedge issue arguments: that they have not reformed, they have not improved, they are the same gangster bullies they always were. So now they are suing people.
We could not convince some people of their deviousness previously, but thanks to their lawsuit, almost everyone is finally agreeing -- they are simply bullies, whose only program is -- they want children to worship their illicit sex messiahs process, and so now they are trying to force us to do that in the courts. They are indeed forcing people to take a stand, but its back firing on them because, more people are agreeing with --- us!
Of course, almost everyone hated these bogus people ALREADY for their creating all the banning, beating, molesting and murders they had done previously. So all they are doing now is digging their hole deeper, by giving us greater and greater wedge issue arguments: that they have not reformed, they have not improved, they are the same gangster bullies they always were. So now they are suing people.
We could not convince some people of their deviousness previously, but thanks to their lawsuit, almost everyone is finally agreeing -- they are simply bullies, whose only program is -- they want children to worship their illicit sex messiahs process, and so now they are trying to force us to do that in the courts. They are indeed forcing people to take a stand, but its back firing on them because, more people are agreeing with --- us!
In point of fact, when people are being forced to worship anything, they will tend to resist. That is normal human psychology. So the result of the GBC's lawsuit process, trying to force us to worship their illicit sex acharya's program, is that its giving all of us a great cause celebre argument against the GBC gurus; that they have no shastra to prove that worship of illicit sex is bona fide, so they have to resort to lawsuits to try to force people to worship their odious concoctions.
In sum, they could not convince us to worship their illicit sex with men, women and children messiahs program by using shastra, so now are trying to force us to worship that odious program -- by bully boy tactics. That is simply infuriating more and more and more members of the mass of devotees, and is creating more and more enemies for the GBC's gurus every day.
The result of all these bully tactics is, its simply convincing thousands and thousands of more people, that the GBC's illicit sex messiahs are simply gangster bullies, in addition to their being perverts for wanting children to worship their illicit sex messiahs project. Now they are trying to force your children to worship their illicit sex messiahs program with lawsuits, ok fine, but what is happening instead is -- they are alienating and offending more and more people every day.
Whereas we keep adding new friends, who are simply appalled at the major expense and waste of the time the GBC are doing to oppress the Prabhupadanuga worship program with these lawsuits, because the GBC gurus program wants the children of the world to worship their illicit sex with men, women and children saviors. Amazing, they are totally dedicated to having people worship their illicit sex guru process, so they are wasting literally millions of dollars thinking that will convince people to adopt it, but its not working. Its turning people off.
Yes, this begs the question, after being sued for $400,000,000 for starving children, now they want to starve -- another wave of children, by getting rid of the managers of the biggest free food for children program in India? Why is it that children are always at the blunt object receiving end of Jayapataka's tender mercies? The only good news here is, this is convincing people more and more than the GBC gurus are anti-children. OK, they are behaving like evil Satans.
Dayarama has been pushing ISKCON to keep spending millions and millions of ISKCON's dollars on lawsuits to defend their child molester guru lineage program. Meanwhile, there are temples with not enough money to get rid of the rats, cock roaches, bed bugs and so on. And of course there is hardly any money to take care of elderly devotees etc. Worse, there was "not enough money" for some ISKCON cows at one farm, so the cows were sold for slaughter. So Dayaram is siphoning money meant for other important programs, including that many devotees, temples and deities are not being taken care of properly, so Dayaram can instead make his lawyers fat and help them buy them nice chicken tikkas, cigars, and new Mercedes. Dayarama is simply a devotee of lawyers.
Meanwhile, some of the ISKCON deities living are in ghettos with rats, mice, bed bugs, cock roaches, and no money to fix the temple buildings properly. As soon as the Dayarama program sees that some temples have a few devotees left to take care of the deities, the GBC wants to kick them all out so there is no one there, like their program already did to so many other temples. Dayarama's program simply wants to remove more of the few people who are still left serving the deity, and so they are buying mansions for lawyers so they can put Krishna into worse ghetto conditions.
Again, this is alienating more people away from the GBC gurus, and more folks are being convinced our of arguments more and more. Goody!
There is another issue here, that Dayaram keeps saying he wants to have the leaders of India's biggest free food for children program put into jail. Makes perfect sense! First, they had many of the several thousand children in Jayapataka's schools claim they were being starved, beat and molested, spreading misery to children. And now Dayarama's pals want to expand their program of misery to children! Yes, we only had a small number of children starved, so lets get rid of the free food program, which is feeding 1.5 million children, so we can starve even more children! We do not want to see children eating! That has to be stopped!
GBC is spending millions on courts, so the legal system workers can buy nice chicken tikkas, meanwhile, the bogus guru program has had to send some of their cows to slaughter because "there is no money."
Dayarama GBC's is spending millions on courts so that lawyers can buy new Mercedes.
Dayarama wants to have the leaders of the free food program put into jail
DAYARAMA WANTS CHILDREN TO LOOK LIKE THIS?
Anyway, this is all moving in our favor no matter what. More people are now starting to look at the bogus GBC's guru program that is behind all these harassing techniques, and more people are figuring out what we figured out a long time ago, these people are corrupt, and their idea of worship of illicit sex, is Satanic. Which is also why Jvalamukhi and others are hinting, or sometimes even starting to ask publicly, is the GBC guru program a child sacrifice demon process?
Well anyway, history is unforgiving, as the saying goes. So, they will all be exposed in time, and are being exposed every day as time goes on. We are winning. Anyway, court cases are the way the same group of Kali chelas ran down the Gaudiya Matha, they sold the printing press to pay lawyers, and our GBC gurus are doing exactly the same thing proving, they are also Kali chelas. ys pd