Tuesday, April 30, 2013
Updates from ISKCON Times
Man is known by his company! If this is true why not Krishna' company?
It is often said that a man is known by his company, and if an ordinary man associates with devotees, he will certainly develop his dormant Krishna consciousness.
Srila Prabhupada: Two material tendencies - enjoyment and renouncement Part -2
Material happiness is nothing to a Krishna conscious person. He gets automatically by the grace of Krishna.
Little logic is required to understand the Lord's lilas!
By God's energy these big, big lumps of planet, they are floating in the air. So as He likes. That is called omnipotence. This simple logic will not strike the so called intellectual people in this world!
Jai Srila Prabhupada!
"Wellness Workshops" for GBC's gurus?
Now the GBC gurus are attending “wellness workshops.”
Of course, they do not care if any of the other devotees are well or not?
Yes, Harikesh has been living nicely after he left, he quite obviously took a lot of cash when he left. He was also living like a king when he was a guru, flying all over, using a big motor home, he had a big sound recording studio for his personal recording etc., and in sum he was living like a rock and roll star very opulently — meanwhile the children in his schools had hardly any blankets, proper clothes, and forget about heaters, air conditioners, …. or even soap, food and basic medical care.
Almost all the money that was meant for caring for the children was being spent on people like Harikesha for their jet set lifestyle. Some of these children have hardly any teeth now that they have grown up, since they were fed so poorly, they had malnutrition problems. Some have stunted growth, curved spines and so on. Meanwhile people like Tamal and Jayapataka were having huge feasts every day, its obvious the children’s money was being siphoned off for their personal jet set program.
Yes, lets all go and spend money on our own wellness programs, since we did such a good job mistreating everyone else. This is really getting silly. Rather oddly, some of these gurus have become very sick and some have died, apparently, from over-eating.
This is amazing, they were starving others and eating like hogs, so they are suffering from their own hog-like behavior, like Jayapataka is, from stuffing their faces too much. Starving others and stuffing oneself, this is what evil kingdoms, dictators, and bogus leaders have done for centuries. Kim Jong Un comes to mind, that is his program, he eats nicely, while his poor citizens get to eat dead cock roaches. It means these leaders have no sense of mercy or compassion, they have become the most self-centered and selfish people on the planet. The karma for this type of behavior is very, very, very, severe however. ys pd
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Wellness-workshop-held-for-ISKCON-monks/articleshow/19711591.cms?intenttarget=no
Keshava das departs his body in Los Angeles (Karandar's brother)
Dear PADA: I am sad to announce that our God brother and friend Kesava Prabhu (ACBSP) passed away today around 12:00 pm 4/30/2013. When he passed on he was surrounded by devotees, Srila Prabhupada was singing bhajana, he was wearing Rukmini Dwarkadesh's Maha garlands along with tilaka and tulsi mala.
Thank you all for your prayers and donations. We will have a memorial for him at New Dwarka L.A. Temple. Perhaps this weekend. I will let you know exactly when in the next few days. Hare Krishna
Thank you all for your prayers and donations. We will have a memorial for him at New Dwarka L.A. Temple. Perhaps this weekend. I will let you know exactly when in the next few days. Hare Krishna
Monday, April 29, 2013
Jagganatha deity in Bhadrak (North of Bhubanesvar)
Notice the lady poojari, she needs a step ladder to place the turbans.
Sunday, April 28, 2013
Now there is no money for the Vedic Planetarium?
http://youtu.be/ogikrO1p-G8
Right, there is however $15,000,000 for lawyers!
Right, there is however $15,000,000 for lawyers!
GBC "not caring for the devotees" update
http://www.youcaring.com/medical-fundraiser/save-the-kes-foundation/55391
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Dear SG, OK I have worked ordinary jobs with ordinary people. We have had many people there working who are 70, some have been over 80, and they are not only alive, they were still active and working. The average life span of the ordinary people is apparently -- way above -- what the so-called devotee level is.
This is the reverse of what should be happening, i.e. the devotees should be living longer due to healthy and stress free lifestyle.
Instead we find many devotees are getting incurable diseases, such as cancer, tumors, colon removal, kidney failure, heart attacks, nerve disorders, and of course we have had no small numbers of deaths from drug overdoses (one nice lady died of heroin overdose, just after she told me she was very depressed by the GBC goonda program). There has also been deaths from alcohol poison, and so on and so forth, none of which are normal deaths for devotees.
One nice devotee lady told me she “lost her will to live” and she died of cancer, that was in 1986. She died very young. There has also been a series of suicides. Of course another group of devotees has died from violence, getting shot and so on, due to engagement in criminal activity. And even some of the gurus have been attacked by disgruntled disciples. Most of the gurus complain of a wide variety of ailments, sickness etc., and premature deaths are happening there. Of course, I had to save one guru from getting his head blown off with a shot gun because he was having sex with a man’s wife, I had to restrain the shooter. This is another “cause of death” that is not normal for devotees.
Meanwhile, even my 70 year old neighbor is outside working hard, building fences and lifting big rocks out of his garden. Something is amiss here? It seems to me that SG is trying to say, who cares about Krishna’s devotees who are suffering and dying, let em all die, so our bogus guru program can survive? Its a little heartless to say all this dying and suffering is normal. It seems there is not an ounce of compassion for the suffering of others, which is the trade mark behavior of the GBC guru program all along. As for Nrshinghananda, he think I am making “overblown” statements and that there is not really a big problem here, no wonder, since he earns his livelihood supporting the bogus guru process, which is the real cause of all this suffering and death in my opinion. Not only the rank and file is getting sick and dying, the gurus are also getting sick and dying, like I said, its an epidemic.
What is even worse is, while there is always say for example $375,000 readily on hand to put various GBC gurus into the top of the line (i.e. most costly) Cedars Sinai Hospital (where some of them have gone in Los Angeles) … there are virtually no available MEDICAL funds to help “the peons” when they get sick. Notice, there is always some “emergency fund” to try to help the poor peon people. These “fund raisers” never collect more than a few thousand dollars from my experience. Meanwhile, the GBC does have a spare $15,000,000 (15 million) dollars of spare cash to sue us in court. Evidently, buying Mercedes for lawyers is the highest priority, and not taking care of Krishna’s devotees. Yep save the poor devotees, because all of their money is being spent on lawyers and not medical help for them. ys pd
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Dear SG, OK I have worked ordinary jobs with ordinary people. We have had many people there working who are 70, some have been over 80, and they are not only alive, they were still active and working. The average life span of the ordinary people is apparently -- way above -- what the so-called devotee level is.
This is the reverse of what should be happening, i.e. the devotees should be living longer due to healthy and stress free lifestyle.
Instead we find many devotees are getting incurable diseases, such as cancer, tumors, colon removal, kidney failure, heart attacks, nerve disorders, and of course we have had no small numbers of deaths from drug overdoses (one nice lady died of heroin overdose, just after she told me she was very depressed by the GBC goonda program). There has also been deaths from alcohol poison, and so on and so forth, none of which are normal deaths for devotees.
One nice devotee lady told me she “lost her will to live” and she died of cancer, that was in 1986. She died very young. There has also been a series of suicides. Of course another group of devotees has died from violence, getting shot and so on, due to engagement in criminal activity. And even some of the gurus have been attacked by disgruntled disciples. Most of the gurus complain of a wide variety of ailments, sickness etc., and premature deaths are happening there. Of course, I had to save one guru from getting his head blown off with a shot gun because he was having sex with a man’s wife, I had to restrain the shooter. This is another “cause of death” that is not normal for devotees.
Meanwhile, even my 70 year old neighbor is outside working hard, building fences and lifting big rocks out of his garden. Something is amiss here? It seems to me that SG is trying to say, who cares about Krishna’s devotees who are suffering and dying, let em all die, so our bogus guru program can survive? Its a little heartless to say all this dying and suffering is normal. It seems there is not an ounce of compassion for the suffering of others, which is the trade mark behavior of the GBC guru program all along. As for Nrshinghananda, he think I am making “overblown” statements and that there is not really a big problem here, no wonder, since he earns his livelihood supporting the bogus guru process, which is the real cause of all this suffering and death in my opinion. Not only the rank and file is getting sick and dying, the gurus are also getting sick and dying, like I said, its an epidemic.
What is even worse is, while there is always say for example $375,000 readily on hand to put various GBC gurus into the top of the line (i.e. most costly) Cedars Sinai Hospital (where some of them have gone in Los Angeles) … there are virtually no available MEDICAL funds to help “the peons” when they get sick. Notice, there is always some “emergency fund” to try to help the poor peon people. These “fund raisers” never collect more than a few thousand dollars from my experience. Meanwhile, the GBC does have a spare $15,000,000 (15 million) dollars of spare cash to sue us in court. Evidently, buying Mercedes for lawyers is the highest priority, and not taking care of Krishna’s devotees. Yep save the poor devotees, because all of their money is being spent on lawyers and not medical help for them. ys pd
ISKCON promoting Rocana's "sampradya acharya" idea?
http://www.prasadam.co.uk/articles/137-sampradaya-acarya.html
Rocana Dasa: Perhaps, maybe, missing link…..
By Hanuman Das
By keeping Srila Prabhupada at the center, the disciple is relieved of the potential for a great deal of bewilderment which can lead to a loss of faith.
(Rocana Dasa, “Sampradaya Acarya Transcends Siksa and Diksa”, published at Hare Krishna Centre, Leicester, UK)
Right, whenever a pseudo guru falls his disciples are destroyed. Although it happened past 35 years 43 times (54.2 percent failure rate) – what is never mentioned by Rocana Dasa – he even admits that there is great need to relieve the poor disciple of a bone-crushing load – from having faith in Rocana’s self-appointed living maha-bhagavat acaryas.
Rocana’s “bona fide physically present gurus” call for to be worshiped as good as God, being recognized as God’s direct representative and last but not least demand 100% full surrender. When we speak of “full surrender” this includes material possession as well.
According Srila Prabhupada, a diksha guru has to be appointed by previous acarya (“A guru can become guru when he’s ordered by his guru. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.”).
In this way previous acarya declares to be liable for this appointment. On principle the whole parampara back to Krishna is responsible for any loss in case such a guru is a failure. Therefore Krishna says: “In case of glanir (deviation) — at that time I descend Myself”.
Parampara system is fully perfect, it doesn’t have these four defects of material life. Parampara system means there is no deviation.
Being aware of all this, Rocana Dasa comes up with an obscure belittlement: Listen newcomer, in case one of our voted-in full-fledged uttama diksa guru – who took all your money – falls down, don’t lose faith, Prabhupada is still there to absorb the shock.
Rocana Dasa is getting subtle, you cannot have Prabhupada as your guru, but try to understand, Prabhupada is the real guru who will absorb any loss. Thus Rocana Dasa admits, having full faith in his living gurus only is of no good: “It might leave you with a loss of faith” (expensive trauma healing therapy).
Who is able to develop faith in questionable gurus who self-explanatory provided a complete fall down statistic of 50%?
This is what Srila Prabhupada says, never accept a teacher you cannot have 100% full trust.
Prabhupada: “If you cannot believe in the words of somebody whom you are going to appoint as your teacher, if you have no faith in his words, then what is the use of going to such teacher? There is no use. Don’t waste your time and don’t waste his time. Therefore those who are going to learn to become a disciple or teacher, he must believe in the words of teacher.
Or if you are doubtful, you should not go to such teacher. This is first qualification. If you do not believe somebody, then you find out someone else upon whom you can put your faith. “Yes, here is the right man who can teach me.” Otherwise there is no use of going to a teacher. This is the Vedic principle.”
(Melbourne, April 21, 1976)
In other words, is there any disciple who is fully convinced that his present GBC appointed guru was appointed by previous acarya? There is none. They all say the same thing, well, yes, what we learned so far it is rather unlikely that Prabhupada appointed any gurus, so many fell already, it might happen again, etc.
But de facto this is the real meaning of parampara system, it’s fully perfect, no material deficiency.
Rocana knows that he has a massive clientele within ISKCON in particular those who make their livelihood by this take-over, privatization of Prabhupada’s movement. All those victims of Rocana’s living guru idea – thousands of devotees – Rocana Das once again defines his position: Slam the door incredibly loud.
Rocana Dasa: Perhaps, maybe, missing link…..
By Hanuman Das
By keeping Srila Prabhupada at the center, the disciple is relieved of the potential for a great deal of bewilderment which can lead to a loss of faith.
(Rocana Dasa, “Sampradaya Acarya Transcends Siksa and Diksa”, published at Hare Krishna Centre, Leicester, UK)
Right, whenever a pseudo guru falls his disciples are destroyed. Although it happened past 35 years 43 times (54.2 percent failure rate) – what is never mentioned by Rocana Dasa – he even admits that there is great need to relieve the poor disciple of a bone-crushing load – from having faith in Rocana’s self-appointed living maha-bhagavat acaryas.
Rocana’s “bona fide physically present gurus” call for to be worshiped as good as God, being recognized as God’s direct representative and last but not least demand 100% full surrender. When we speak of “full surrender” this includes material possession as well.
According Srila Prabhupada, a diksha guru has to be appointed by previous acarya (“A guru can become guru when he’s ordered by his guru. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.”).
In this way previous acarya declares to be liable for this appointment. On principle the whole parampara back to Krishna is responsible for any loss in case such a guru is a failure. Therefore Krishna says: “In case of glanir (deviation) — at that time I descend Myself”.
Parampara system is fully perfect, it doesn’t have these four defects of material life. Parampara system means there is no deviation.
Being aware of all this, Rocana Dasa comes up with an obscure belittlement: Listen newcomer, in case one of our voted-in full-fledged uttama diksa guru – who took all your money – falls down, don’t lose faith, Prabhupada is still there to absorb the shock.
Rocana Dasa is getting subtle, you cannot have Prabhupada as your guru, but try to understand, Prabhupada is the real guru who will absorb any loss. Thus Rocana Dasa admits, having full faith in his living gurus only is of no good: “It might leave you with a loss of faith” (expensive trauma healing therapy).
Who is able to develop faith in questionable gurus who self-explanatory provided a complete fall down statistic of 50%?
This is what Srila Prabhupada says, never accept a teacher you cannot have 100% full trust.
Prabhupada: “If you cannot believe in the words of somebody whom you are going to appoint as your teacher, if you have no faith in his words, then what is the use of going to such teacher? There is no use. Don’t waste your time and don’t waste his time. Therefore those who are going to learn to become a disciple or teacher, he must believe in the words of teacher.
Or if you are doubtful, you should not go to such teacher. This is first qualification. If you do not believe somebody, then you find out someone else upon whom you can put your faith. “Yes, here is the right man who can teach me.” Otherwise there is no use of going to a teacher. This is the Vedic principle.”
(Melbourne, April 21, 1976)
In other words, is there any disciple who is fully convinced that his present GBC appointed guru was appointed by previous acarya? There is none. They all say the same thing, well, yes, what we learned so far it is rather unlikely that Prabhupada appointed any gurus, so many fell already, it might happen again, etc.
But de facto this is the real meaning of parampara system, it’s fully perfect, no material deficiency.
Rocana knows that he has a massive clientele within ISKCON in particular those who make their livelihood by this take-over, privatization of Prabhupada’s movement. All those victims of Rocana’s living guru idea – thousands of devotees – Rocana Das once again defines his position: Slam the door incredibly loud.
Saturday, April 27, 2013
RE: Drutakarma das
Right prabhu. First of all these people like Drutakarma gave Krishna a bad name, by saying Krishna's -- "Pure Devotee Representatives from Heaven" are criminals and debauchees. This gives Krishna a bad name by linking His Pure Representatives to bad and indeed extremely sinful activity.
God's representatives are evil sinners because God is Himself an evil sinner, that is their actual plan, to deride and degrade the name of Krishna. Now these self-same promoters of giving Krishna a bad name, like Drutkarma, are almost embarassed to even mention Krishna in public, because that reminds people who these folks like Drutakarma really are, they are the promoters of fools, criminals, debauchees, child molesters and murderers as the lord's messiahs.
They are embarassed to mention Krishna, because they are the ones who poured tons of garbage on Krishna's name. They gave Krishna's a bad name, so yes it is true, they poured so much garbage on Krishna's name even they are ashamed to be identified with that name. And that is why he rarely mentions Krishna and / or almost never mentions Srila Prabhupada in his presentations.
Of course since time immemorial the demons and atheists have been trying to tie Krishna to evil, while trying to paint themselves as the good guys, that is what their entire game is all about -- all along, for billions of years, the demons are trying to give Krishna a bad name, so they will look like the better person than Krishna. This is called envy of Krishna, plain and simple. This has been going on since the beginning of this universe. ys pd
Friday, April 26, 2013
Thursday, April 25, 2013
Srila Prabhupada "next leader, all nonsense"
They GBC never said that "all of the disciples" are going to be gurus? This is a straw man argument. They said they are only 11, and the rest of us 5,000 have to accept that debauchees are gurus, or we will be banned, beaten and killed. OK there are now those who were voted in by the 11, they expanded the guru franchise business.
This is also basically what Mr. Stalin did by the way, "everyone" is going to have a big house, opulent facility, many servants, golden tableware etc. just like Mr. Stalin has. Ooops, well sorry, first we need to kill 23 million people, THEN, and I promise!!!! Everyone ELSE will ALSO have a big house and servants like I have! We simply did not accept the Stalin siddhanta, therefore we were a problem for these gurus. Here is what Srila Prabhupada actually said:
Śrīla Prabhupāda Says - [On leadership in his ISKCON society]
"...after you, who will take the leadership?" And "Everyone will take, all my disciples. If you want, you can take also. (laughter) But if you follow. They are prepared to sacrifice everything, so they'll take the leadership. I may, one, go away, but there will be hundreds, and they'll preach. If you want, you can also become a leader. We have no such thing, that 'Here is leader.' Anyone who follows the previous leadership, he's a leader. 'Indian,' we have no such distinction, 'Indian,' 'European.' "
Brahmānanda: They wanted an Indian to be the leader?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) "Everyone, all my disciples, they are leaders. As purely as they follow, they become leader. If you want to follow, you can become a leader. You are Indian. But you don't want." I told them that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they probably wanted to propose somebody who would take over our movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Leaders. All nonsense. Leader means one who has become first-class disciple. He is leader. Evaṁ paramparā-prāpta... One who is perfectly following... Our instruction is ara na kariha mane asa **. You know this? What is that? Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete kariyā aikya, ara na kariha mane asa **.
Who is leader? A leader, to become leader, is not very difficult, provided one is prepared to follow the instructions of a bona fide guru.
[Room Conversation: Vṛndāvan 2 Nov 1977]
Wednesday, April 24, 2013
All of us are diksha gurus?
Dear Krishna das: Disciple of my disciple? OK, however they kicked out almost all us disciples? There were 5,000 disciples, and they kicked almost all of them out. Lokanatha swami wrote about that in 1988, the temples are all ghost towns, no one is left, where has everyone gone? That is what he noted in 1988, there was no one left hardly.
The GBC never said what you are saying now, that ALL of the disciples are now going to be their gurus? They said there are only 11 gurus. And when we said some of your gurus are debauchees and deviants, we were then banned, beaten and sometimes assassinated. They never implemented your idea that all of us disciples are going to have our own disciples? When was this implemented? Now they are fighting that women cannot be gurus, they never even said that all the women would be gurus, what to speak of the men?
They kicked out almost all the rest of the disciple group. They never implemented your idea that ALL of the disciples should be included in their process? Not only they banned, beat and / or assassinated most of us “disciples,” some of us (like me) were chased by GBC goondas with baseball bats, and I was saved at the last moment by the police, otherwise I would have been beaten to death.
Is this the way you folks treat your other co-gurus in your “we are all gurus” idea? Your party bans, beats and kills ALL the other gurus? If your idea is correct, all of us are gurus, this begs the question, why are you folks banning, beating and killing — thousands of other gurus?
You are then asking, why is this program not bona fide, the program that is violently expelling all the other people that you claim are also gurus? We are all gopi rasika acharyas, so lets kill the 5,000 other gopis and declare that 11 are the best or only gopis? Have you any idea what your program is doing here? You are essentially saying that gopi level devotees — ban, beat and kill off the other gopis? What is that?
I personally would have been killed without the FBI intervening, they arrested the GBC guru’s hit man who had a description of my pick up truck in his pocket, they were going after me next. To kill me. That is what the FBI told me. So I am also a gopi rasika guru like the GBC, so lets kill the other gopis?
I am not sue why you think this is the proper way to treat all of us co-gurus with the GBC, whom you claim are also — gurus, because all the disciples are gurus? Are you trying to tell us that your idea is that other gurus are supposed to be banned, beat and assassinated, so that only 11 can claim to be gurus and all the other gurus are supposed to be viciously oppressed?
The GBC never said what you are saying now, that ALL of the disciples are now going to be their gurus? They said there are only 11 gurus. And when we said some of your gurus are debauchees and deviants, we were then banned, beaten and sometimes assassinated. They never implemented your idea that all of us disciples are going to have our own disciples? When was this implemented? Now they are fighting that women cannot be gurus, they never even said that all the women would be gurus, what to speak of the men?
They kicked out almost all the rest of the disciple group. They never implemented your idea that ALL of the disciples should be included in their process? Not only they banned, beat and / or assassinated most of us “disciples,” some of us (like me) were chased by GBC goondas with baseball bats, and I was saved at the last moment by the police, otherwise I would have been beaten to death.
Is this the way you folks treat your other co-gurus in your “we are all gurus” idea? Your party bans, beats and kills ALL the other gurus? If your idea is correct, all of us are gurus, this begs the question, why are you folks banning, beating and killing — thousands of other gurus?
You are then asking, why is this program not bona fide, the program that is violently expelling all the other people that you claim are also gurus? We are all gopi rasika acharyas, so lets kill the 5,000 other gopis and declare that 11 are the best or only gopis? Have you any idea what your program is doing here? You are essentially saying that gopi level devotees — ban, beat and kill off the other gopis? What is that?
I personally would have been killed without the FBI intervening, they arrested the GBC guru’s hit man who had a description of my pick up truck in his pocket, they were going after me next. To kill me. That is what the FBI told me. So I am also a gopi rasika guru like the GBC, so lets kill the other gopis?
I am not sue why you think this is the proper way to treat all of us co-gurus with the GBC, whom you claim are also — gurus, because all the disciples are gurus? Are you trying to tell us that your idea is that other gurus are supposed to be banned, beat and assassinated, so that only 11 can claim to be gurus and all the other gurus are supposed to be viciously oppressed?
I am not sure why you are saying we are all gurus and that the GBC guru party is authorized to exterminate all the rest of us gurus like we were termites who need to — die? Who authorized you to declare that we are gurus, and then — to exterminate all of us other people that you claim are also — gurus? This is not making much sense here? All of us are gurus, so call in the hit squad to exterminate all but 11 of the 5,000 group of gurus? Can you try to make sense of your idea — before you express it? I have never heard this before, there are 5,000 gopi rasika gurus here, so lets ban, beat and kill almost all the other gopis? Have you been taking your medications is of course the next self-evident question? ys pd
Tuesday, April 23, 2013
Sunday, April 21, 2013
Lets have -- nothing at all? (more examples of mayavada and sunnyavada infiltering)
Dear SG: The “proof” that accepting Srila Prabhupada as the current guru is a working idea is simple, all kinds of people are worshiping him all over the world and they are advancing in spiritual life under this process. They are now worshiping Krishna and reading Srila Prabhupada’s books etc., when they were not doing this formerly, what more “proof” do we need that this is a good idea?
And in sum, our Prabhupadanugas program is expanding. We are gaining more centers, more devotees, and so on and so forth.
What baffles us about your types of folks is: (A) you are agreeing that the GBC program is crumbling, that there are rats, bed bugs, cockroaches etc. infesting more than several of their temples, that the city authority is shutting down some of their kitchens, actually in more than several cases, due to code violations (because there is no money to fix the code problems). There are -- in more than several cases -- huge problems paying the electric bill etc., and there are even cases where their cows were sent to slaughter because there is no money to care for these cows. And now Niranjana swami is admitting he has neglected Boston temple because he is too busy hanging out in Poland, so he is letting all this happen intentionally, and so forth. Hence — their program is dying out. OK we all agree, their idea is dying on the vine.
Then you say (B) our program, which is growing, and which is having no problem here paying for our local Prabhupadanuga temple, is also bogus because “its not found in shastra.” OK so you also want to shut down our program. And this will leave us with your idea which is (C) Shut the GBC program down, and shut our program down, and in sum shut everything down, and then -- we will have nothing left standing at all?
Then you wonder why no one is in favor of your proposal and process?
And in sum, our Prabhupadanugas program is expanding. We are gaining more centers, more devotees, and so on and so forth.
What baffles us about your types of folks is: (A) you are agreeing that the GBC program is crumbling, that there are rats, bed bugs, cockroaches etc. infesting more than several of their temples, that the city authority is shutting down some of their kitchens, actually in more than several cases, due to code violations (because there is no money to fix the code problems). There are -- in more than several cases -- huge problems paying the electric bill etc., and there are even cases where their cows were sent to slaughter because there is no money to care for these cows. And now Niranjana swami is admitting he has neglected Boston temple because he is too busy hanging out in Poland, so he is letting all this happen intentionally, and so forth. Hence — their program is dying out. OK we all agree, their idea is dying on the vine.
Then you say (B) our program, which is growing, and which is having no problem here paying for our local Prabhupadanuga temple, is also bogus because “its not found in shastra.” OK so you also want to shut down our program. And this will leave us with your idea which is (C) Shut the GBC program down, and shut our program down, and in sum shut everything down, and then -- we will have nothing left standing at all?
Then you wonder why no one is in favor of your proposal and process?
Because it is mayavada and sunnyavada. Your idea is that -- "nothing" -- is better than what the GBC is doing, or what we are doing. This is mayavada. You will have the Titanic (ISKCON) sink, and now you want our ISKCON's lifeboats to sink, so there will be no survivors left at all? What kind of proposal is that? You are not presenting a working model of what we should do instead? You just want everyone else to stop. Sounds like very sour grapes indeed.
This is the same problem we have had for example with an ex-devotee who got upset that the Krishna's mistreat their children, so he went back to the JEHOVAH'S WITNESS program. Ooops! The Jehovah Witness program is being sued in more than several states for CHILD ABUSE because they sometimes do not take their sick and dying children to the hospital, and the children suffer and even die as as a result etc.
One lawsuit is even charging these folks with intentionally forcing CHILDREN to die as an "offering to God." So their church is also being charged with child abuse of the worst order, i.e. their children victims are even dying. So he objected to one situation of child abuse, ok fine, but then he simply ran off to another child abuse process, even worse order -- since their children are even dying?
This means, he has no better idea? In addition, these Jehovah's Witness people eat tons of meat daily and they and their children get all forms of severe suffering and illness and they DIE because of that. Why does this ex-devotee want children to eat meat and get cancer and heart diseases etc.? That means he has gone off to an even worse idea than ours. OK, then this ex-devotee wonders why all the Krishna devotees are not running off to join his program, never mind even the "worst case" Krishna devotees also do not want to torture and kill millions of animals every week?
This is all mayavada and sunnyavada, they have nothing better to offer, or even, their program is worse than ours. So our request is very simple, instead of saying everyone else is bogus, even if everyone else is bogus, you still have to show us A BETTER PLAN. Sour grapes is not going to attract anyone, nor will it save anyone. Its that simple. We see this all the time now, the GBC is bad, the ritviks are bad, the Gaudiya Matha has bogus gurus that they cannot control right now, so they are all bad, everything is bad, that is what some might call, a dead end.
A dead end of simply complaints -- about everyone and everything else -- is not a program, ok its against everyone else and their program, but it is not a program itself, it cannot go anywhere. You need to lead people out of the forest fire, not tell them there is no exit from the fire, where they will simply die in the fire? I have no idea what the point of all this is? So, like it or not, our program is attracting people to worship Lord Krishna and read the books of Srila Prabhupada, at least we have some proposal for people to follow. And its working. ys pd
Prabhupadanuga-ness is spreading despite all these naysayers!
Saturday, April 20, 2013
Friday, April 19, 2013
Many ISKCON temples deteriorating
[PADA: Atlanta temple was shut down for awhile by the health department. Other temples report problems like -- bed bugs, mice, cock roaches and so on. Cows on one farm were sent to slaughter because the cowherd devotee there was too depressed at the suffering of the cows, due to lack of funds to care for them. So he thought killing the cows would be more merciful. Another temple has exposed electrical wiring near the kitchen sink. This could actually kill someone. Boston has had a rat problem, including rats passing stools on the altars. We know one reason this is going on, the leaders are spending $15,000,000 suing Bangalore, and that is where a lot of their money is going. Why are they suing Bangalore? Because, there are no rats running on the altars there, they want to kick everyone out so they can bring in the rats on the altars program over there as well. ys pd]
BY: BHAKTA DAVE
I just wanted to report a very disturbing situation at the ISKCON Boston Temple. The city apparently shut down the Deity kitchen because of various violations several months ago, the main violation being the lack of fire protection gear. Basically, the city has forbidden ISKCON Boston to cook for any public events and the feasts instead have been cooked at various congregation members' houses. Not only is this a violation of the Deity standards, but this is dangerous in regard to the spread of pathogens. And this is also a further violation of city regulations.
At the same time, Niranjana Swami, the GBC for ISKCON Boston, wrote a letter to the congregation basically washing his hands of the responsibility of managing the temple. How can he let a situation like this degrade so badly that the Temple can't even legally have a public program? How can he let the Deity standard sink this low and take no responsibility? Isn't this the Temple he originally joined? I mean, he certainly has the money to fund his extensive traveling. Can't he spare the cost of some of his many plane tickets and get the kitchen fixed to serve the Deities Who Srila Prabhupada directly installed?
This Temple has been through so much. Niranjana Swami let the devotees live in bedbug infested squalor for years, staying at his sister's house nearby instead of addressing that issue. Now, there is no chance of a Ratha Yatra and the quality of the Sunday program, basically the only preaching done, is severely compromised.
Niranjana Swami should resign in shame and let someone else, who cares about the Deities and devotees, deal with it. It is just really sad to see how bad this landmark Temple has degraded while the GBC and Temple President do nothing about it.
Your servant,
Bhakta Dave
BV Narayan Maharaja is a mayavadi (update)
PADA: There are some God brothers and associates of Srila Prabhupada who never agreed with his idea -- that us jiva souls were -- originally -- in the SPIRITUAL WORLD and we fell down from the spiritual world -- to this mundane world. However, the idea that we "originally fell from the spiritual platform," is found all over Srila Prabhupada's writings and teachings. In fact that is the title of his flagship magazine "Back To Godhead," ... i.e. we have to GO BACK to our "original constitutional position" as Krishna's servants.
Yet people like BV Narayana Maharaja, BR Sridhara Maharaja, Gaura Govinda maharaja, BV Tripurari swami, and their dedicated followers like Uttama sloka prabhu and others think -- they have a better idea than Srila Prabhupada's. Their idea is -- that we originated somewhere else, for example BR Sridhara Maharaja says we originated in the brahmajyoti, therefore we have an impersonal origin.
Hence BR Sridhara's followers like BV Tripurari swami asked our associate "are you a brahmajyoti devotee"? (Do you agree with BR Sridhara that we came from the impersonal brahman?) Whereas Narayan Maharaja says we originated in the tatastha region, which is not a place or region at all. Rather tatastha describes how the souls can move from one region to another. We originated in -- moving? This does not even make sense from a grammatical point of view? We came from -- moving? These people lack even common sense?
None of this was ever the idea of Srila Prabhupada, who commonly says -- that we have to return home back to Godhead (return home, back to home, back to Godhead etc. means -- we were once there). We also have to revive our dormant Krishna consciousness; That we have to remember our original relationship with Krishna (that was existing previously etc.); We have lost our connection to Krishna due to envy of Him (how could we become envious of God if we never knew who He was?) and so on and so forth. There are hundreds if not thousands of similar quotes that he made in this regard. Here is merely one of many similar examples:
Srila Prabhupada, Bombay, January 1, 1975: ... originally we are all pure, Krishna conscious, but as we have got little independence -- because we are part and parcel of God, therefore -- God has got full independence -- so we have got independence according to the quantity.
[PADA: Notice, we were first of all serving Krishna in Vaikuntha, and then we decided to become independent. We MIS-USED our idependence. We were with Krishna and we decided to become INDEPENDENT of Him. We were living in a subservient position to God, as His servants. And THEN we decided to live independently. This is of course what happens in the material world when a married couple divorces, one party leaves and lives independent of the other. This is the same concept of: "living together" then "living independent." That means we did not originate in the tatastha region (which does not exist at all anyway), rather we originated in a post as Krishna's servants -- with Him. We were with Krishna and then we decided to be independent of Him.]
Yet people like BV Narayana Maharaja, BR Sridhara Maharaja, Gaura Govinda maharaja, BV Tripurari swami, and their dedicated followers like Uttama sloka prabhu and others think -- they have a better idea than Srila Prabhupada's. Their idea is -- that we originated somewhere else, for example BR Sridhara Maharaja says we originated in the brahmajyoti, therefore we have an impersonal origin.
Hence BR Sridhara's followers like BV Tripurari swami asked our associate "are you a brahmajyoti devotee"? (Do you agree with BR Sridhara that we came from the impersonal brahman?) Whereas Narayan Maharaja says we originated in the tatastha region, which is not a place or region at all. Rather tatastha describes how the souls can move from one region to another. We originated in -- moving? This does not even make sense from a grammatical point of view? We came from -- moving? These people lack even common sense?
None of this was ever the idea of Srila Prabhupada, who commonly says -- that we have to return home back to Godhead (return home, back to home, back to Godhead etc. means -- we were once there). We also have to revive our dormant Krishna consciousness; That we have to remember our original relationship with Krishna (that was existing previously etc.); We have lost our connection to Krishna due to envy of Him (how could we become envious of God if we never knew who He was?) and so on and so forth. There are hundreds if not thousands of similar quotes that he made in this regard. Here is merely one of many similar examples:
[PADA: There are many such citations, originally we are all pure and Krishna conscious beings, in sum -- "originally" -- we are ALL serving Krishna in Vaikuntha, and so on and so forth. How can we be "conscious of Krishna," and indeed be serving Him, if we are not with Him directly? Srila Prabhupada also describes our original spiritual position (svarupa) as "nitya Krishna das." The idea of Srila Prabhupada is very clear, we were originally serving Krishna, and then we became envious of Krishna, and then -- we fell down to this mundane platform. The only factor that Narayana Maharaja identifies in our origin is that -- we were moving at our origin. Moving -- where?
There is a further elaboration of these events by Srila Prabhupada, that just AFTER the living entities fall from their spiritual existence in the spiritual world, they first of all become demigods like Lord Brahma, and then they continue in a downward spiral to lower and lower species from there. The idea is: that we are still semi-pure when we originally fall, but as we become more and more entangled in the material existence, we become more contaminated into lower and lower births. Therefore, (a) we started out having a fully pure spiritual position, (b) we fell into a semi-pure state, and then (c) we degraded further as we entangled more and more into the material world. Therefore (d) we have to revive our original pure and spiritual condition.
Srila Prabhupada: Similarly, our material contamination means that, when we desire to live without Krishna consciousness: “Why we shall be subservient to Krishna? We shall live independently." That is going on.
There is a further elaboration of these events by Srila Prabhupada, that just AFTER the living entities fall from their spiritual existence in the spiritual world, they first of all become demigods like Lord Brahma, and then they continue in a downward spiral to lower and lower species from there. The idea is: that we are still semi-pure when we originally fall, but as we become more and more entangled in the material existence, we become more contaminated into lower and lower births. Therefore, (a) we started out having a fully pure spiritual position, (b) we fell into a semi-pure state, and then (c) we degraded further as we entangled more and more into the material world. Therefore (d) we have to revive our original pure and spiritual condition.
Srila Prabhupada: Similarly, our material contamination means that, when we desire to live without Krishna consciousness: “Why we shall be subservient to Krishna? We shall live independently." That is going on.
[PADA: Notice, we were first of all serving Krishna in Vaikuntha, and then we decided to become independent. We MIS-USED our idependence. We were with Krishna and we decided to become INDEPENDENT of Him. We were living in a subservient position to God, as His servants. And THEN we decided to live independently. This is of course what happens in the material world when a married couple divorces, one party leaves and lives independent of the other. This is the same concept of: "living together" then "living independent." That means we did not originate in the tatastha region (which does not exist at all anyway), rather we originated in a post as Krishna's servants -- with Him. We were with Krishna and then we decided to be independent of Him.]
Srila Prabhupada: Material life means everyone is trying to become victorious in the struggle of existence without God consciousness. That is our material disease. Krishna-bahirmukha hasa bhoga vascha kare. We may revolt. That independence we have got, little independence, and we can misuse it, that "Why shall I serve Krishna? Let me serve myself." "Let me serve myself" means, "Let me serve my different propensities, kama, krodha, lobha, moha, matsarya," like that. My independence means "I will not serve God; I will serve my lusty desires." You cannot become independent.
This is a concoction only, that "I will not serve Krishna." But you have to serve. What is that? "Then I serve my lusty desires." Indriya-trpti, indriya-trpti. Yad indriya-pritaye. Simply to satisfy … Krishna consciousness means there is no such thing as indriya-trpti, or sense gratification. Everything for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord. Hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Hrsika means the indriya, or the senses.
[PADA: Notice, we were serving but we decided "I shall not serve." The means we were serving and we gave up our service. We decided to serve ourselves (i.e. our own lusty desires). We also turned our face away from Krishna -- bahirmukha. How could we turn away our face away from Krishna -- if we were not there with Him?]
Narayana Maharaja is criticizing Srila Prabhupada, who says, we ALL originated in Krishna's lila or sport. NM said "no vaishnava will ever say that." That means NM does not even think Srila Prabhupada is a vaishnava? He is insulting the acharya. Srila Prabhupada told us NOT to read the Gaudiya Matha's version of "Jaiva Dharma" because it was re-edited by his God brothers after 1936, he said it is not authorized.
He also said his God brothers are tinged with mayavada, so they have the idea we come from brahman and not Krishna's lila or sport. NM's clan are not answering any of these points, and neither could NM, so he left me sitting for 10 hours without seeing me, he has no answer. And now there is a woman groping fool posing as an acharya in their group, and nothing is being done, and we posted the letters from their groups' leaders in this regard on our blog. They are doing what the GBC gurus are doing, making debauchees into their messiahs.
http://youtu.be/hTaPnym7QZI
Srila Prabhupada says we come from "Krishna's lila or sport." But here we find people like Jadurani and Narayana Maharaja saying that these statements from Srila Prabhupada are bogus. Narayana Maharaja says we originated in "Tatastha sakti." Tatastha is not a place, it is a definition of how the jivas can move from one place to another.
NM says we started in the middle (brahmajyoti), and they can go to Krishna or Maya from there. This is bogus, we are with Krishna and we chose to defy His authority. Srila Prabhupada says we BECAME ENVIOUS of Krishna, and we fell. Narayana Maharaja says we came from brahman, because he is a mayavada. NM also has no explanation for how we fell here? How could the people who do not know who Krishna is, reject Him?]
We do not come from Goloka Vrindavan (11/13)
S Dasi: PADA your interpretation of Srila Prabhupada's words is false, anyone can (and has) used scripture in any which twisted way, for even the killing of animals. That you misinterpret having no submission to living spiritual guidance, is very understandable. There is nowhere where Srila Prabhupada states that we ALL (that is every single living entity in existence), come falling down from Sri Krishna's Lila pastimes in the spiritual world - the place from whence no-one ever falls - which are Sri Krishna's words of total assurance in Srimad Bhagavad Gita.
[PADA: You are not quoting what Srila Prabhupada said? He said only those in the material world fell, not that all beings have fallen? Yes, after we return we do not generally fall back here again. Srila Prahbupada says we will have some faint recollection of being in the material world after we go back home, like having our hand burnt in a fire, so we will generally not come back here. So yes, after we return most likely we will very likely never come back here, this is all explained by Srila Prabhupada. You are avoiding his detailed instruction on this matter. NM has avoided the point that we originated in the lila or sport.]
S Dasi: Of course you are the first to say that Maya is more attractive and stronger to draw living entities away from Sri Krishna.
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada said that we become envious and fall. You are attacking his statements. NM has avoided the point that we originated in the lila or sport.]
S Dasi: People like yourself also blasphemed my own Srila Gurudeva's love of the Bhagavad Gita - ie until his Bhagavad Gita was published and the truth could not be denied. Rather than criticising, Srila Narayana Maharaja was praising Srila Prabhupada with these words, but you like a small ignorant child have missed that, as all of our acaryas are saying the same thing, that the jivas who come into the material worlds appear from Tatastha region.
You love to assign others as critical by your twisting and juxtaposing others words and their moods expressed through them, but, this does not alter the truth and this is obviously something that doesn't concern you due to extreme prejudices you have preconcieved, planted as seeds, watered as weeds, and grown fruits so bitter they cannot be eaten. These Weeds appear so so thick and strong that not even the Absolute Truth coming from the lotus lips of a bona fide spiritual master can penetrate nor cut them.
[PADA: Narayan Maharaja is the person who says that SRILA PRABHUPADA'S idea that we originated in "Krishna's lila or sport" is something that would not be said by any vaishnava. NM clearly says, Srila Prabhupad is not even a vaishnava? Sorry, that is what NM says. This is not praise? That is a direct attack on the pure devotee. NM has avoided the point that we originated in the lila or sport.]
S Dasi: the tatastha region is both the viraj river and a state of consciousness that we have never crossed, otherwise we would be permanently situated on the other side 'never to have to take birth in these material worlds again. Yes we can move from one to the other and in fact by one moments Honest association with a pure devotee of the Lord. Hare Krishna. Only the pure devotees of Sri Krishna are able to move at will in all the regions, those such as Narada Muni. They can even come down from the uttama adhikari state to the madhyama to preach!
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada states from the Bhagavatam, 2.3.19 in Los Angeles, June 15, 1972: "He is fallen already from Vaikuntha PLANET. He is fallen in this material world and he again trying to make progress."
NM has avoided the point that we originated in the lila or sport. He is defying the acharya.]
Also consider:
Disciple: When the souls that were never conditioned at all…do they also have the independence?
Prabhupada: Yes, but they have not misused.
Disciple: Could they ever misuse it?
Prabhupada: Yes they can misuse it also. That power is there.
Disciple: Well I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and goes to Krsnaloka, there's no possibility of falling back.
Prabhupada: No there is a possibility.
(from a conversation after a lecture on Caitanya-caritamrita in San Francisco on February 18, 1967)
Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.25:
Yathagnina hema malam jahati / Dhatam punah svam bhajate carupam
Atma ca karmanusayam vidhuya / Mad bhakti bhajaty yogena atho mam
"Just as gold, when smelted in fire, gives up its impurities and returns to its pure brilliant state, similarly, the spirit soul, absorbed in the fire of bhakti yoga, is purified of all contamination caused by previous fruitive activities and returns to its original position of serving Me in the spiritual world."
Srila Prabhupada - "Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti 'sadhya' kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada -"The living entity should become purified and regain his svarupa, his original identity" Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48
SRILA PRABHUPADA: "As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration. Therefore, many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time, it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned . . . Unless one develops full devotional service to Krishna, he goes up only to brahma-sayujya but falls down. After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming. Because he falls down from brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna." THE ORIGIN OF THE JIVA: BRAHMAJYOTI OR KRISHNA LILA?
Australian conversation with Srila Prabhupada (Transcribed as Nectar of the Month, BBT Report, January, 1982.)
[PADA: There you also go again saying there is a tatastha "region." Sorry, the word tatastha means that the souls can move from the spiritual world to the material world and vice verse, its not a place, its a means of describing how we can move from one region to the other. We jiva souls are a place called tatastha? No, we are the souls who can move, we are not "a place." At all? The word tatastha means borderline. The word tata means a shore or bank, like the shoreline of an ocean; and the verbal root stha means to be situated. The shore is not part of the ocean, yet it is not part of the land which borders the ocean.
One situated on the shoreline is known as tatastha. He is situated neither within the ocean, nor on the land. -- This means we can move from one world to the other, the banks of a river can move, and so can we, its not "a place," its a description of how we souls can move from one world to the other world, just like the banks of a river can move. In any case, Srila Prabhupada says we are going to "return home back to Godhead," return means -- we were once there. Srila Prabhupada says we fell from Vaikuntha, and now we have to return home, that is what he says. NM has no authority to challenge the acharya. Once again you are defying the statement of the acharya, he says we were formerly with Krishna in His lia or sport. For you to say that the tatatstha region (which does not even exist) is the lila or sport origin means, you do not even know what is the lila or sport? You are trying to say the Vaikuntha planets from where we originated is impersonal, this is called mayavada.]
Srila Prabhupada: ". . . so the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there." Letter to Rayarama, 12.2.68
"So, there is chance of falling down even from the personal association of God . . ." Room conversation, 9.19.73
"The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature. And this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." Letter to Jagadish, 4.25.70
"When the living entities desire to enjoy themselves, they develop a consciousness of duality and come to hate the service of the Lord." Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53
"When the living entity thus turns away from the Supreme Lord, he also forgets his own constitutional position as a servant of the Lord." Srimad Bhagavatam 11.2.37
"Yes. The conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus were with Krishna before being conditioned . . . similarly, each soul has seen Krishna . . ." Letter to Jagadish, 2.25.70
"We are all originally Krishna conscious entities . . ." Address to large audience -- Srila Prabhupada on the Hare Krishna album.
"Regarding your questions concerning the spirit soul’s falling into maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krishna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually, anyone who has developed his relationship with Krishna does not fall down in any circumstances, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence. But his relationship with Krishna is never lost. Simply it is forgotten by the influence of maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name . . ." Letter to Jagadish, 4.25.70
[PADA: The relationship HAS TO BE REVIVED, it was existing previously.]
Srila Prabhupada - We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on August 6, 1973 ...73/08/06 London, Bhagavad-gita 2.6
[PADA: OK I think by now you get the point, Srila Prabhupada is saying we were with Krishna and we became envious and that is how we have fallen. That is also the reason we fell. NM says this idea is not right, that means, he is defying the acharya. ys pd]
Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down.”. July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada does says when we go back we generally do not return to here again "like a person who has burnt his hand in a fire wants to avoid fire." However, that is after we return. And now, since we agree with the acharya, NM says we are not even vaishnavas? That means he is not only attacking the acharya, he is attacking anyone who follows the acharya. He is mass attacking tens of thousands of devotees. This is very grevious! ys pd]
S Dasi SB 5.11.12 PURPORT "This ordinary living being is of two kinds -- nitya-baddha or nitya-mukta. One is eternally conditioned and the other eternally liberated. The eternally liberated living beings, are in the Vaikuntha jagat, the spiritual world, and they NEVER fall into the material world.'
[PADA: You are taking a quote out of the context of other quotes.]
Sometimes it is asked how the living entity falls down from the spiritual world to the material world. Here is the answer. Unless one is elevated to the Vaikuntha planets, directly in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is prone to fall down, either from the impersonal Brahman realization or from an ecstatic trance of meditation.'
[PADA: OK except, you are taking a few quotes out of the context of the quotes we cited, nor have you even explained the quotes we cited.]
S Dasi: Krishna Book, Chapter 28: Releasing Nanda Maharaja from the clutches of Varuna (p. 186)
'The mature devotees, who have completely executed Krishna consciousness, are immediately transferred to the universe where Krishna is appearing. In that universe the devotees get their FIRST opportunity to associate with Krishna personally and directly.'
[PADA: Right, after being in the material world for billions of years, we have to be re-trained to associate with Krishna, and so we are going to see Him when He appears in the material world as our training. That will be the first time we see Him in a long time. This means you are ignoring the other citations. You are taking a quote out of the context of the other quotes.]
SB 7.1.35 TRANSLATION "The bodies of the inhabitants of Vaikuntha are completely spiritual, having nothing to do with the material body, senses, or life air. Therefore, kindly explain how associates of the Personality of Godhead were cursed to descend."
[PADA: OK, so some of the living entities in the spiritual world were cursed to come here, that means people there can come here. Correct. You said that is not possible. Now you are contradicting yourself.]
S. Dasi: Poor mundane PADA sees a mundane world in a mundane way, every which way you turn they are sooo mundane but you are the only one following everything properly and above question ie until I see with your mundane deficiency till then I cannot have a leg to stand on. And your speculations as to the standards of etiquette of muslim jewish and Christian meat-eaters is another of your whitewash or should I say black wash statements that still do not truly give the reasons you were ignored. Maybe this aggressive preconcieved offensiveness is the reason you find yourself floundering around without any faith that there is anyone higher than you on this planet at this moment.
This is a concoction only, that "I will not serve Krishna." But you have to serve. What is that? "Then I serve my lusty desires." Indriya-trpti, indriya-trpti. Yad indriya-pritaye. Simply to satisfy … Krishna consciousness means there is no such thing as indriya-trpti, or sense gratification. Everything for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord. Hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Hrsika means the indriya, or the senses.
[PADA: Notice, we were serving but we decided "I shall not serve." The means we were serving and we gave up our service. We decided to serve ourselves (i.e. our own lusty desires). We also turned our face away from Krishna -- bahirmukha. How could we turn away our face away from Krishna -- if we were not there with Him?]
Narayana Maharaja is criticizing Srila Prabhupada, who says, we ALL originated in Krishna's lila or sport. NM said "no vaishnava will ever say that." That means NM does not even think Srila Prabhupada is a vaishnava? He is insulting the acharya. Srila Prabhupada told us NOT to read the Gaudiya Matha's version of "Jaiva Dharma" because it was re-edited by his God brothers after 1936, he said it is not authorized.
He also said his God brothers are tinged with mayavada, so they have the idea we come from brahman and not Krishna's lila or sport. NM's clan are not answering any of these points, and neither could NM, so he left me sitting for 10 hours without seeing me, he has no answer. And now there is a woman groping fool posing as an acharya in their group, and nothing is being done, and we posted the letters from their groups' leaders in this regard on our blog. They are doing what the GBC gurus are doing, making debauchees into their messiahs.
Notice in the video below that Jadurani is confused, she says we have to follow NM's idea that we do not originate with Krishna, at the same time, we need to try to "go back to God" (return home to where we came from). She is contradicting herself:
Srila Prabhupada says we come from "Krishna's lila or sport." But here we find people like Jadurani and Narayana Maharaja saying that these statements from Srila Prabhupada are bogus. Narayana Maharaja says we originated in "Tatastha sakti." Tatastha is not a place, it is a definition of how the jivas can move from one place to another.
NM says we started in the middle (brahmajyoti), and they can go to Krishna or Maya from there. This is bogus, we are with Krishna and we chose to defy His authority. Srila Prabhupada says we BECAME ENVIOUS of Krishna, and we fell. Narayana Maharaja says we came from brahman, because he is a mayavada. NM also has no explanation for how we fell here? How could the people who do not know who Krishna is, reject Him?]
We do not come from Goloka Vrindavan (11/13)
S Dasi: PADA your interpretation of Srila Prabhupada's words is false, anyone can (and has) used scripture in any which twisted way, for even the killing of animals. That you misinterpret having no submission to living spiritual guidance, is very understandable. There is nowhere where Srila Prabhupada states that we ALL (that is every single living entity in existence), come falling down from Sri Krishna's Lila pastimes in the spiritual world - the place from whence no-one ever falls - which are Sri Krishna's words of total assurance in Srimad Bhagavad Gita.
[PADA: You are not quoting what Srila Prabhupada said? He said only those in the material world fell, not that all beings have fallen? Yes, after we return we do not generally fall back here again. Srila Prahbupada says we will have some faint recollection of being in the material world after we go back home, like having our hand burnt in a fire, so we will generally not come back here. So yes, after we return most likely we will very likely never come back here, this is all explained by Srila Prabhupada. You are avoiding his detailed instruction on this matter. NM has avoided the point that we originated in the lila or sport.]
S Dasi: Of course you are the first to say that Maya is more attractive and stronger to draw living entities away from Sri Krishna.
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada said that we become envious and fall. You are attacking his statements. NM has avoided the point that we originated in the lila or sport.]
S Dasi: People like yourself also blasphemed my own Srila Gurudeva's love of the Bhagavad Gita - ie until his Bhagavad Gita was published and the truth could not be denied. Rather than criticising, Srila Narayana Maharaja was praising Srila Prabhupada with these words, but you like a small ignorant child have missed that, as all of our acaryas are saying the same thing, that the jivas who come into the material worlds appear from Tatastha region.
You love to assign others as critical by your twisting and juxtaposing others words and their moods expressed through them, but, this does not alter the truth and this is obviously something that doesn't concern you due to extreme prejudices you have preconcieved, planted as seeds, watered as weeds, and grown fruits so bitter they cannot be eaten. These Weeds appear so so thick and strong that not even the Absolute Truth coming from the lotus lips of a bona fide spiritual master can penetrate nor cut them.
[PADA: Narayan Maharaja is the person who says that SRILA PRABHUPADA'S idea that we originated in "Krishna's lila or sport" is something that would not be said by any vaishnava. NM clearly says, Srila Prabhupad is not even a vaishnava? Sorry, that is what NM says. This is not praise? That is a direct attack on the pure devotee. NM has avoided the point that we originated in the lila or sport.]
S Dasi: the tatastha region is both the viraj river and a state of consciousness that we have never crossed, otherwise we would be permanently situated on the other side 'never to have to take birth in these material worlds again. Yes we can move from one to the other and in fact by one moments Honest association with a pure devotee of the Lord. Hare Krishna. Only the pure devotees of Sri Krishna are able to move at will in all the regions, those such as Narada Muni. They can even come down from the uttama adhikari state to the madhyama to preach!
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada states from the Bhagavatam, 2.3.19 in Los Angeles, June 15, 1972: "He is fallen already from Vaikuntha PLANET. He is fallen in this material world and he again trying to make progress."
NM has avoided the point that we originated in the lila or sport. He is defying the acharya.]
Also consider:
Disciple: When the souls that were never conditioned at all…do they also have the independence?
Prabhupada: Yes, but they have not misused.
Disciple: Could they ever misuse it?
Prabhupada: Yes they can misuse it also. That power is there.
Disciple: Well I believe you once said that once a conditioned soul becomes perfected and gets out of the material world and goes to Krsnaloka, there's no possibility of falling back.
Prabhupada: No there is a possibility.
(from a conversation after a lecture on Caitanya-caritamrita in San Francisco on February 18, 1967)
Srimad Bhagavatam 11.14.25:
Yathagnina hema malam jahati / Dhatam punah svam bhajate carupam
Atma ca karmanusayam vidhuya / Mad bhakti bhajaty yogena atho mam
"Just as gold, when smelted in fire, gives up its impurities and returns to its pure brilliant state, similarly, the spirit soul, absorbed in the fire of bhakti yoga, is purified of all contamination caused by previous fruitive activities and returns to its original position of serving Me in the spiritual world."
Srila Prabhupada - "Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti 'sadhya' kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha". Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4- Mayapur, February 18, 1977
Srila Prabhupada -"The living entity should become purified and regain his svarupa, his original identity" Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.48
SRILA PRABHUPADA: "As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly, we were with Krishna in His lila or sport, but this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration. Therefore, many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time, it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned . . . Unless one develops full devotional service to Krishna, he goes up only to brahma-sayujya but falls down. After millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krishna consciousness, this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming. Because he falls down from brahma sayujya, he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that, before that even, he was with Krishna." THE ORIGIN OF THE JIVA: BRAHMAJYOTI OR KRISHNA LILA?
Australian conversation with Srila Prabhupada (Transcribed as Nectar of the Month, BBT Report, January, 1982.)
[PADA: There you also go again saying there is a tatastha "region." Sorry, the word tatastha means that the souls can move from the spiritual world to the material world and vice verse, its not a place, its a means of describing how we can move from one region to the other. We jiva souls are a place called tatastha? No, we are the souls who can move, we are not "a place." At all? The word tatastha means borderline. The word tata means a shore or bank, like the shoreline of an ocean; and the verbal root stha means to be situated. The shore is not part of the ocean, yet it is not part of the land which borders the ocean.
One situated on the shoreline is known as tatastha. He is situated neither within the ocean, nor on the land. -- This means we can move from one world to the other, the banks of a river can move, and so can we, its not "a place," its a description of how we souls can move from one world to the other world, just like the banks of a river can move. In any case, Srila Prabhupada says we are going to "return home back to Godhead," return means -- we were once there. Srila Prabhupada says we fell from Vaikuntha, and now we have to return home, that is what he says. NM has no authority to challenge the acharya. Once again you are defying the statement of the acharya, he says we were formerly with Krishna in His lia or sport. For you to say that the tatatstha region (which does not even exist) is the lila or sport origin means, you do not even know what is the lila or sport? You are trying to say the Vaikuntha planets from where we originated is impersonal, this is called mayavada.]
Srila Prabhupada: ". . . so the potency to fall under the influence of the lower energy is always there." Letter to Rayarama, 12.2.68
"So, there is chance of falling down even from the personal association of God . . ." Room conversation, 9.19.73
"The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature. And this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." Letter to Jagadish, 4.25.70
"When the living entities desire to enjoy themselves, they develop a consciousness of duality and come to hate the service of the Lord." Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.53
"When the living entity thus turns away from the Supreme Lord, he also forgets his own constitutional position as a servant of the Lord." Srimad Bhagavatam 11.2.37
"Yes. The conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus were with Krishna before being conditioned . . . similarly, each soul has seen Krishna . . ." Letter to Jagadish, 2.25.70
"We are all originally Krishna conscious entities . . ." Address to large audience -- Srila Prabhupada on the Hare Krishna album.
"Regarding your questions concerning the spirit soul’s falling into maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krishna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually, anyone who has developed his relationship with Krishna does not fall down in any circumstances, but because the independence is always there, the soul may fall down from any position or any relationship by misusing his independence. But his relationship with Krishna is never lost. Simply it is forgotten by the influence of maya, so it may be regained or revived by the process of hearing the Holy Name . . ." Letter to Jagadish, 4.25.70
[PADA: The relationship HAS TO BE REVIVED, it was existing previously.]
Srila Prabhupada - We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." - Lecture on August 6, 1973 ...73/08/06 London, Bhagavad-gita 2.6
[PADA: OK I think by now you get the point, Srila Prabhupada is saying we were with Krishna and we became envious and that is how we have fallen. That is also the reason we fell. NM says this idea is not right, that means, he is defying the acharya. ys pd]
Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down.”. July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada does says when we go back we generally do not return to here again "like a person who has burnt his hand in a fire wants to avoid fire." However, that is after we return. And now, since we agree with the acharya, NM says we are not even vaishnavas? That means he is not only attacking the acharya, he is attacking anyone who follows the acharya. He is mass attacking tens of thousands of devotees. This is very grevious! ys pd]
S Dasi SB 5.11.12 PURPORT "This ordinary living being is of two kinds -- nitya-baddha or nitya-mukta. One is eternally conditioned and the other eternally liberated. The eternally liberated living beings, are in the Vaikuntha jagat, the spiritual world, and they NEVER fall into the material world.'
[PADA: You are taking a quote out of the context of other quotes.]
Sometimes it is asked how the living entity falls down from the spiritual world to the material world. Here is the answer. Unless one is elevated to the Vaikuntha planets, directly in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is prone to fall down, either from the impersonal Brahman realization or from an ecstatic trance of meditation.'
[PADA: OK except, you are taking a few quotes out of the context of the quotes we cited, nor have you even explained the quotes we cited.]
S Dasi: Krishna Book, Chapter 28: Releasing Nanda Maharaja from the clutches of Varuna (p. 186)
'The mature devotees, who have completely executed Krishna consciousness, are immediately transferred to the universe where Krishna is appearing. In that universe the devotees get their FIRST opportunity to associate with Krishna personally and directly.'
[PADA: Right, after being in the material world for billions of years, we have to be re-trained to associate with Krishna, and so we are going to see Him when He appears in the material world as our training. That will be the first time we see Him in a long time. This means you are ignoring the other citations. You are taking a quote out of the context of the other quotes.]
SB 7.1.35 TRANSLATION "The bodies of the inhabitants of Vaikuntha are completely spiritual, having nothing to do with the material body, senses, or life air. Therefore, kindly explain how associates of the Personality of Godhead were cursed to descend."
[PADA: OK, so some of the living entities in the spiritual world were cursed to come here, that means people there can come here. Correct. You said that is not possible. Now you are contradicting yourself.]
S. Dasi: Poor mundane PADA sees a mundane world in a mundane way, every which way you turn they are sooo mundane but you are the only one following everything properly and above question ie until I see with your mundane deficiency till then I cannot have a leg to stand on. And your speculations as to the standards of etiquette of muslim jewish and Christian meat-eaters is another of your whitewash or should I say black wash statements that still do not truly give the reasons you were ignored. Maybe this aggressive preconcieved offensiveness is the reason you find yourself floundering around without any faith that there is anyone higher than you on this planet at this moment.
[PADA: OK, so now you are saying your idea, that we originated in "moving" is the spiritual idea, whereas Srila Prabhupada's idea is the mundane idea. I am quoting Srila Prabhupada and Narayana Maharaja and his followers are saying the direct words of the acharya are "mundane meat eating Muslim, Jewish and Christian ideas." No, the idea that we did not have association with God, which is Narayan Maharaja's idea, is the same as the Christian, Muslim, Jewish idea. The jiva souls think we sort of landed here, we did not have previous association with God. Narayan Maharaja is preaching the Christian, Jewish, Muslim idea, of course his idea that we orignated in "moving" is laughable even to mundane religions.]
S Dasi: Tim, it appears you have some kind of a personality disorder that causes you to get a lot of energy from just plain hating people, it is offensive to hate any living entity for all are part and parcel of Krishna. That you seem to thrive on controversy with bad feelings to to the enth of hate in your being, so they come your way naturally. I just thank Sri Hari Guru and vaisnavas that I do not hate any other vaisnavas who spend their lives chanting Hare Krishna. It is sad how you reveal such misgivings that I thought only materialists felt about others due to the grossest kind of bodily conception producing the fool who reveals himself by his own words to be so asslike as to form prejudices against every single person who chooses to do things a little differently to their own concocted idea in a conception of what they think is The Absolute Truth.
[PADA: You and Jadurani and friends are spending your entire life trying to "prove" that Srila Prabhupada's jiva tattva is bogus.]
S. Dasi: PURPORT: The Hari-bhakti-vilasa cites the following quotation from Skanda Purana concerning the blaspheming of a Vaisnava:
In this conversation between Markandeya and Bhagiratha, it is said: "My dear King, if one derides an exalted devotee, he loses the results of his pious activities, his opulence, his reputation and his sons. Vaisnavas are all great souls. Whoever blasphemes them falls down to the hell known as Maharaurava. He is also accompanied by his forefathers. Whoever kills or blasphemes a Vaisnava and whoever is envious of a Vaisnava or angry with him, or whoever does not offer him obeisances or feel joy upon seeing a Vaisnava, certainly falls into a hellish condition."
The Hari-bhakti-vilasa (10.314) also gives the following quotation from Dvaraka-mahatmya:
In a conversation between Prahlada Maharaja and Bali Maharaja, it is said, "Those sinful people who blaspheme Vaisnavas, who are all great souls, are subjected very severely to the punishment offered by Yamaraja."
In the Bhakti-sandarbha (313) there is a statement concerning the blaspheming of Lord Visnu.
"One who criticizes Lord Visnu and His devotees loses all the benefits accrued in a hundred pious births. Such a person rots in the Kumbhipaka hell and is bitten by worms as long as the sun and moon exist. One should therefore not even see the face of a person who blasphemes Lord Visnu and His devotees. Never try to associate with such persons."
[PADA: Great, this is how Narayan Maharaja gets people killed, we have to disagree with Srila Prabhupada or we are offenders. This is how NM helped the GBC get people killed. And now one of his own sannyasas says he is in fear of violence because another NM program sannyasa is falling, and he might get beaten for exposing that. NM is creating violent cults with his type of preaching.
S Dasi: Actually it is simple for the simple ones: if the living entities were coming from Krishna's abode then Krishna in Bhagavad gita 8-16 would have said: "but one who RETURNS to my abode will not take birth again" but He says "but one who ATTAINS my abode"
[PADA: OK so now you are saying the whole idea of BACK TO GODHEAD is bogus. You also said previously that the lila or sport might refer to the material world, since this is also Krishna's lila or sport, that is exactly the philosophy of the Mayavadas. In addition, you are saying some souls start out with Krishna -- and some do not because Krishna is biased against some souls (this is the same as the Christians who say some souls start out in heaven -- and are there with God all along -- and some of us "inferior souls" are put here by God's un-equal justice). In other words, God has un-equal justice.
S Dasi: Tim, it appears you have some kind of a personality disorder that causes you to get a lot of energy from just plain hating people, it is offensive to hate any living entity for all are part and parcel of Krishna. That you seem to thrive on controversy with bad feelings to to the enth of hate in your being, so they come your way naturally. I just thank Sri Hari Guru and vaisnavas that I do not hate any other vaisnavas who spend their lives chanting Hare Krishna. It is sad how you reveal such misgivings that I thought only materialists felt about others due to the grossest kind of bodily conception producing the fool who reveals himself by his own words to be so asslike as to form prejudices against every single person who chooses to do things a little differently to their own concocted idea in a conception of what they think is The Absolute Truth.
[PADA: You and Jadurani and friends are spending your entire life trying to "prove" that Srila Prabhupada's jiva tattva is bogus.]
S. Dasi: PURPORT: The Hari-bhakti-vilasa cites the following quotation from Skanda Purana concerning the blaspheming of a Vaisnava:
In this conversation between Markandeya and Bhagiratha, it is said: "My dear King, if one derides an exalted devotee, he loses the results of his pious activities, his opulence, his reputation and his sons. Vaisnavas are all great souls. Whoever blasphemes them falls down to the hell known as Maharaurava. He is also accompanied by his forefathers. Whoever kills or blasphemes a Vaisnava and whoever is envious of a Vaisnava or angry with him, or whoever does not offer him obeisances or feel joy upon seeing a Vaisnava, certainly falls into a hellish condition."
The Hari-bhakti-vilasa (10.314) also gives the following quotation from Dvaraka-mahatmya:
In a conversation between Prahlada Maharaja and Bali Maharaja, it is said, "Those sinful people who blaspheme Vaisnavas, who are all great souls, are subjected very severely to the punishment offered by Yamaraja."
In the Bhakti-sandarbha (313) there is a statement concerning the blaspheming of Lord Visnu.
"One who criticizes Lord Visnu and His devotees loses all the benefits accrued in a hundred pious births. Such a person rots in the Kumbhipaka hell and is bitten by worms as long as the sun and moon exist. One should therefore not even see the face of a person who blasphemes Lord Visnu and His devotees. Never try to associate with such persons."
[PADA: Great, this is how Narayan Maharaja gets people killed, we have to disagree with Srila Prabhupada or we are offenders. This is how NM helped the GBC get people killed. And now one of his own sannyasas says he is in fear of violence because another NM program sannyasa is falling, and he might get beaten for exposing that. NM is creating violent cults with his type of preaching.
S Dasi: Actually it is simple for the simple ones: if the living entities were coming from Krishna's abode then Krishna in Bhagavad gita 8-16 would have said: "but one who RETURNS to my abode will not take birth again" but He says "but one who ATTAINS my abode"
[PADA: OK so now you are saying the whole idea of BACK TO GODHEAD is bogus. You also said previously that the lila or sport might refer to the material world, since this is also Krishna's lila or sport, that is exactly the philosophy of the Mayavadas. In addition, you are saying some souls start out with Krishna -- and some do not because Krishna is biased against some souls (this is the same as the Christians who say some souls start out in heaven -- and are there with God all along -- and some of us "inferior souls" are put here by God's un-equal justice). In other words, God has un-equal justice.
He gives some souls a free pass and others have to suffer to get their pass, if they get one at all. This means you think God is mundane and He pre-selects some of His children for the kingdom of heaven, while others are pre-selected for the kingdom of hell. In other words, you have the same identical problems the mayavada siddhanta has had all along, they cannot explain why some would have to fall and suffer.
In any case, you have not explained things from the Vaishnava viewpoint? The Vaishnavas say that being in Krishna's lila or sport is -- being with Krishna direct, in His lila or sport means being with Him in the spiritual world. They do not consider (as the mayavadis do) that the material world is the Lila and sport of God, rather the Vaishnavas say -- those who are saying the material world is the Lila or sport of God are in severe illusion. And this begs questions like, why would God make His own Lila a Lila one of suffering and death?
This is all the more proof that you folks are mayavadas, you do not even understand what is the Lila of the Lord. Srila Prabhupada says after we return its still possible we could come back here because we always have free will, although its unlikely because we will have some faint recollection of being in the material fire, so it is not likely we will be re-attracted. However, we will always have free will. You are also trying to strip away the "free will" element of the living entities and make us into robot zombies, basically saying all the residents of the spiritual world have no free will, they stay there forever because they cannot chose otherwise, its a mechanical arrangement, in other words, you have not understood, what to speak of explained, any or all of these matters at all.]
In any case, you have not explained things from the Vaishnava viewpoint? The Vaishnavas say that being in Krishna's lila or sport is -- being with Krishna direct, in His lila or sport means being with Him in the spiritual world. They do not consider (as the mayavadis do) that the material world is the Lila and sport of God, rather the Vaishnavas say -- those who are saying the material world is the Lila or sport of God are in severe illusion. And this begs questions like, why would God make His own Lila a Lila one of suffering and death?
This is all the more proof that you folks are mayavadas, you do not even understand what is the Lila of the Lord. Srila Prabhupada says after we return its still possible we could come back here because we always have free will, although its unlikely because we will have some faint recollection of being in the material fire, so it is not likely we will be re-attracted. However, we will always have free will. You are also trying to strip away the "free will" element of the living entities and make us into robot zombies, basically saying all the residents of the spiritual world have no free will, they stay there forever because they cannot chose otherwise, its a mechanical arrangement, in other words, you have not understood, what to speak of explained, any or all of these matters at all.]
http://youtu.be/QyHtEhps9vk
Notice that Narayana Maharaja calls the worst deviants of the Gaudiya Matha "Prabhupada," but he still refuses to call AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada with that title. He still calls our Prabhupada "swami mahararaja." NM was one of the people who attacked Srila Prabhupada for using the Prabhupada title in 1971. And notice that Tamal Krishna swami, the founder father and leader of introducing the Narayana Maharaja program into ISKCON, is not objecting to this serious aparadha, rather he is saying this is "most important work." ys pd
Srila BV Narayan Maharaja defends our parampara during a meeting with ISKCON GBC P1
Please Visit www.Pur
Notice that Narayana Maharaja calls the worst deviants of the Gaudiya Matha "Prabhupada," but he still refuses to call AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada with that title. He still calls our Prabhupada "swami mahararaja." NM was one of the people who attacked Srila Prabhupada for using the Prabhupada title in 1971. And notice that Tamal Krishna swami, the founder father and leader of introducing the Narayana Maharaja program into ISKCON, is not objecting to this serious aparadha, rather he is saying this is "most important work." ys pd
Srila BV Narayan Maharaja defends our parampara during a meeting with ISKCON GBC P1
Please Visit www.Pur
Wednesday, April 17, 2013
They are not my words (Srila Prabhupada)
"The material defects of mistakes, illusions, cheating and sensory inefficiency do not exist in THE WORDS of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
(C.C. Adi 7.107)
"They are NOT MY WORDS, as I have repeatedly informed you that I am simply the bearer of the message from Lord Caitanya through the disciplic succession and I DO NOT MAKE ANY ADDITION OR SUBTRACTION. Similarly, IF YOU ALL CARRY THESE WORDS successively, then the transcendental parampara system will be exactly maintained and people in general will be benefited."
(Letter to: Bhagavan - Los Angeles 10 January)
Tuesday, April 16, 2013
No need to identify our guru?
Puranjana prabhu, there never came a need for me to identify my Guru. So, this can’t be considered as an evidence that I am a mayavadi. How does it make a difference whether I identify my Guru or no? I can definitely assure you that one of the ISKCON devotees that the GBC has accepted as a bonafide spiritual master is my Guru. That has nothing to do with the issue at hand, it is just a means to distract the attention of readers.
PADA: Because Srila Prabhupada says unless we give the name of our guru, we are a mayavada. We are personalists, we use names. Your guru does not teach that, because he is bogus. Now you are saying, following Srila Prabhupada's ideas is not important? That proves your guru is bogus. You are saying there is a bona fide guru, but you do not want to tell the world who that is -- so they will suffer, that is also mayavada, they say they have to keep their mantra secret and so on, while the world suffers.
That means, your guru is bogus. Sorry, for you to say that following Srila Prabhupada is "a distraction" means, your guru is bogus for sure. You think following Srila Prabhupada's idea is a distraction, because you are not following his ideas. You are concocting. If your guru is with the Jayadvaita party that says gurus engage in illicit sex with men, women and children, where is his public recantation of these odious ideas? If he is not protesting, then he is implicated with these ideas. Srimate Draupadi said, anyone who does not speak up is just as bad as Dusasana is. And Srila Prabhupada says, all those who did not speak up, had to be killed because they made Krishna angry for not speaking up. ys pd
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Monday, April 15, 2013
Mayesa wants Krishna to live in the ghetto
Mayesa, no first the GBC lost, then they appealed? Then they won, and we appealed, because we did not want our deity to live in the GBC guru temple standards -- of having rats passing stools on the altars in some of their temples, holes in the roof over the deity in some cases, health department shutting their temple down from bad plumbing in other cases etc?
We wanted to protect our deity from these problems that exist in the GBC's mis-managed temples. Why would we not want to put our deity in their ghetto like this?
Why are you saying we should neglect the deity, like the GBC program is doing, and put Krishna with the rats passing stools on the altars program? Why do you want Krishna to be living in the ghetto? What kind of devotee are you? You want Krishna to live in the ghetto, this is very sinful, and I am sorry you do not even know that. ys pd
We wanted to protect our deity from these problems that exist in the GBC's mis-managed temples. Why would we not want to put our deity in their ghetto like this?
Why are you saying we should neglect the deity, like the GBC program is doing, and put Krishna with the rats passing stools on the altars program? Why do you want Krishna to be living in the ghetto? What kind of devotee are you? You want Krishna to live in the ghetto, this is very sinful, and I am sorry you do not even know that. ys pd
RE: Mahanidhi swami
PADA: Yes thanks prabhu, so we can conclude by saying that Mahanidhi swami is saying that the eternal gurus, the acharyas, the gopis, the assistants of Radha etc, are engaging in illicit sex, are taking drugs, are fighting like cats and dogs, are engaged in name calling, and are fighting among one another like jungle animals, and are calling each other bogus sahajiyas and so on. This is the standard of behavior of the acharyas, and assistants to the gopis, according to Mahanidhi swami. Got it! That does end it pretty much? I'm speechless after hearing their proposal myself, it is clearly the end! ys pd
Unauthorized Book Changes by Bhakta Mark prabhu
UNAUTHORIZED BOOK CHANGES
By Bhakta Mark | April 12, 2013
There are many fools who blindly regurgitate the following slogans which were concocted by the Zoned out Acaryas and their GBC (Gangster Boy Cheerleaders) of Iskcon, including their BBT (Butlers of Better Truth).
Referring to the Ritvik initiation system, they say there is no such thing as “post samadhi initiation” or “posthumous Diksa”. that it is asiddhanta and not part of the Gaudiya Tradition.
So I am surprised that Jayadwaita and his BBT book mangling crew have yet to edit Jagannatha das Babaji’s name out from the list of disciplic succession in the “new improved” Bhagavad Gita. After all, according to the parampara list as written by Srila Prabhupada in CC Adi Lila chapter 1, “Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji”, even though Visvanatha was “post samadhi” by a hundred years.
I hate to give our misguided pre-samadhi editors any more “bright” ideas, but that edited Gita is ruined already, so Jay might as well just continue to show the world what he really thinks about the ideas of the one he claims to be a disciple of.
THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION
Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh. (Bhagavad-gita, 4.2) This Bhagavad-gita As It Is is received through this disciplic succession:
1) Krishna, 2) Brahma, 3) Narada; 4) Vyasa, 5) Madhva, 6) Padmanabha, 7) Nrhari, 8) Madhava, 9) Aksobhya, 10) Jayatirtha, 11) Jnanasindhu, 12) Dayanidhi, 13) Vidyanidhi, 14) Rajendra, 15) Jayadharma, 16) Purusottama, 17) Brahmanyatirtha, 18) Vyasatirtha, 19) Laksmipati, 20) Madhavendra Puri, 21) Isvara Puri, (Nityananda, Advaita), 22) Lord Caitanya, 23) Rupa (Svarupa, Sanatana), 24) Raghunatha, Jiva, 25) Krsnadasa, 26) Narottama, 27) Visvanatha, 28) (Baladeva) Jagannatha, 29) Bhaktivinode, 30) Gaurakisora, 31) Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, 32) His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
(Bhagavad Gita INTRO)
Of course J.Swa will need to attack the Bhagavatam next…
Brahma is the direct recipient of Vedic knowledge from the Personality of Godhead, and anyone discharging his entrusted duties in disciplic succession from Brahma is sure to gain fame in this life and salvation in the next. The disciplic succession from Brahma is called the Brahma-sampradaya, and it descends as follows: Brahma, Narada, Vyasa, Madhva Muni (Purnaprajna), Padmanabha, Nrhari, Madhava, Aksobhya, Jayatirtha, Jnanasindhu, Dayanidhi, Vidyanidhi, Rajendra, Jayadharma, Purusottama, Brahmanyatirtha, Vyasatirtha, Laksmipati, Madhavendra Puri, Isvara Puri, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Svarupa Damodara and Sri Rupa Gosvami and others, Sri Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, Krsnadasa Gosvami, Narottama dasa Thakura,Visvanatha Cakravarti, Jagannatha dasa Babaji, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Gaurakisora dasa Babaji, Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami.
(SB 3.13.8 : PURPORT )
Might as well edit a few taped lectures while he is at it…
“One who has accepted acarya, he knows things as they are.” Acaryavan puruso veda. So we are receiving knowledge through the acaryas. Krishna spoke to Arjuna, Arjuna spoke to Vyasadeva. Arjuna actually did not speak to Vyasadeva, but Vyasadeva heard it, Krishna speaking, and he noted down in his book Mahabharata. This Bhagavad-gita is found in Mahabharata. So we accept the authorities of Vyasa. And from Vyasa, Madhvacarya; from Madhvacarya, so many disciplic succession, up to Madhavendra Puri. Then Madhavendra Puri to Isvara Puri; from Isvara Puri to Lord Caitanyadeva; from Lord Caitanyadeva to six Gosvamis; from six Gosvamis to Krsnadasa Kaviraja; from him, Srinivasa Acarya; from him, Visvanatha Cakravarti; from him, Jagannatha dasa Babaji; then Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji; Bhaktivinoda Thakura; my spiritual master. The same thing, we are preaching. That is Krishna consciousness movement. It is nothing new. It is coming down from the original speaker, Krishna, by disciplic succession.
(Lectures : Bhagavad-gita 2.13 — Pittsburgh, September 8, 1972)
That is guru. Means one who has seen the truth. How he has seen the truth? Through the parampara system. Krishna said this, and then Brahma said the same thing, then Narada said the same thing, Vyasadeva said the same thing, and then disciplic succession, Madhvacarya, Madhavendra Puri, Isvara Puri, Lord Caitanya, Sad-gosvami, Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, Srinivasa Acarya, Narottama dasa Thakura, Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. In this way. Jagannatha dasa Babaji, Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. Then we are speaking. The same thing.
(Lectures : Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.4.1 — Los Angeles, June 24, 1972)
J. and cohort Dravida das already edited the Parampara list in CC Adi 1, but failed to properly address the false post samadhi Diksa that Jagannatha received when Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti accepted him as servitor. Instead he our Mangler in Chief focused on editing Srila Prabhupada’s “bogus” idea that Bhaktivinode was initiated by Jagannatha dasa, and that Bhaktivinode initiated Srila Gaurakishor das Babaji.
“The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti as his servitor. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, who initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self.”
(Original CC Adi Chapter 1)
“The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti as his servitor. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn accepted Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self.”
(Changed CC Adi Chapter 1)
I know, I know, so many changes to make, so little time. Perhaps some one of J. Swa’s divine stature could make an appeal to Kala, the presiding Deity of time, in the form of a request to slow things down a bit so His Magnificence will be able to properly wield his editorial scalpel and undo all the errors Srila Prabhupada left us with and save the entire Jagat from being so grossly misinformed.
By Bhakta Mark | April 12, 2013
There are many fools who blindly regurgitate the following slogans which were concocted by the Zoned out Acaryas and their GBC (Gangster Boy Cheerleaders) of Iskcon, including their BBT (Butlers of Better Truth).
Referring to the Ritvik initiation system, they say there is no such thing as “post samadhi initiation” or “posthumous Diksa”. that it is asiddhanta and not part of the Gaudiya Tradition.
So I am surprised that Jayadwaita and his BBT book mangling crew have yet to edit Jagannatha das Babaji’s name out from the list of disciplic succession in the “new improved” Bhagavad Gita. After all, according to the parampara list as written by Srila Prabhupada in CC Adi Lila chapter 1, “Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji”, even though Visvanatha was “post samadhi” by a hundred years.
I hate to give our misguided pre-samadhi editors any more “bright” ideas, but that edited Gita is ruined already, so Jay might as well just continue to show the world what he really thinks about the ideas of the one he claims to be a disciple of.
THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION
Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh. (Bhagavad-gita, 4.2) This Bhagavad-gita As It Is is received through this disciplic succession:
1) Krishna, 2) Brahma, 3) Narada; 4) Vyasa, 5) Madhva, 6) Padmanabha, 7) Nrhari, 8) Madhava, 9) Aksobhya, 10) Jayatirtha, 11) Jnanasindhu, 12) Dayanidhi, 13) Vidyanidhi, 14) Rajendra, 15) Jayadharma, 16) Purusottama, 17) Brahmanyatirtha, 18) Vyasatirtha, 19) Laksmipati, 20) Madhavendra Puri, 21) Isvara Puri, (Nityananda, Advaita), 22) Lord Caitanya, 23) Rupa (Svarupa, Sanatana), 24) Raghunatha, Jiva, 25) Krsnadasa, 26) Narottama, 27) Visvanatha, 28) (Baladeva) Jagannatha, 29) Bhaktivinode, 30) Gaurakisora, 31) Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, 32) His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
(Bhagavad Gita INTRO)
Of course J.Swa will need to attack the Bhagavatam next…
Brahma is the direct recipient of Vedic knowledge from the Personality of Godhead, and anyone discharging his entrusted duties in disciplic succession from Brahma is sure to gain fame in this life and salvation in the next. The disciplic succession from Brahma is called the Brahma-sampradaya, and it descends as follows: Brahma, Narada, Vyasa, Madhva Muni (Purnaprajna), Padmanabha, Nrhari, Madhava, Aksobhya, Jayatirtha, Jnanasindhu, Dayanidhi, Vidyanidhi, Rajendra, Jayadharma, Purusottama, Brahmanyatirtha, Vyasatirtha, Laksmipati, Madhavendra Puri, Isvara Puri, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Svarupa Damodara and Sri Rupa Gosvami and others, Sri Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, Krsnadasa Gosvami, Narottama dasa Thakura,Visvanatha Cakravarti, Jagannatha dasa Babaji, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Gaurakisora dasa Babaji, Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami.
(SB 3.13.8 : PURPORT )
Might as well edit a few taped lectures while he is at it…
“One who has accepted acarya, he knows things as they are.” Acaryavan puruso veda. So we are receiving knowledge through the acaryas. Krishna spoke to Arjuna, Arjuna spoke to Vyasadeva. Arjuna actually did not speak to Vyasadeva, but Vyasadeva heard it, Krishna speaking, and he noted down in his book Mahabharata. This Bhagavad-gita is found in Mahabharata. So we accept the authorities of Vyasa. And from Vyasa, Madhvacarya; from Madhvacarya, so many disciplic succession, up to Madhavendra Puri. Then Madhavendra Puri to Isvara Puri; from Isvara Puri to Lord Caitanyadeva; from Lord Caitanyadeva to six Gosvamis; from six Gosvamis to Krsnadasa Kaviraja; from him, Srinivasa Acarya; from him, Visvanatha Cakravarti; from him, Jagannatha dasa Babaji; then Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji; Bhaktivinoda Thakura; my spiritual master. The same thing, we are preaching. That is Krishna consciousness movement. It is nothing new. It is coming down from the original speaker, Krishna, by disciplic succession.
(Lectures : Bhagavad-gita 2.13 — Pittsburgh, September 8, 1972)
That is guru. Means one who has seen the truth. How he has seen the truth? Through the parampara system. Krishna said this, and then Brahma said the same thing, then Narada said the same thing, Vyasadeva said the same thing, and then disciplic succession, Madhvacarya, Madhavendra Puri, Isvara Puri, Lord Caitanya, Sad-gosvami, Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, Srinivasa Acarya, Narottama dasa Thakura, Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. In this way. Jagannatha dasa Babaji, Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. Then we are speaking. The same thing.
(Lectures : Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.4.1 — Los Angeles, June 24, 1972)
J. and cohort Dravida das already edited the Parampara list in CC Adi 1, but failed to properly address the false post samadhi Diksa that Jagannatha received when Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti accepted him as servitor. Instead he our Mangler in Chief focused on editing Srila Prabhupada’s “bogus” idea that Bhaktivinode was initiated by Jagannatha dasa, and that Bhaktivinode initiated Srila Gaurakishor das Babaji.
“The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti as his servitor. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, who initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self.”
(Original CC Adi Chapter 1)
“The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti as his servitor. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn accepted Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self.”
(Changed CC Adi Chapter 1)
I know, I know, so many changes to make, so little time. Perhaps some one of J. Swa’s divine stature could make an appeal to Kala, the presiding Deity of time, in the form of a request to slow things down a bit so His Magnificence will be able to properly wield his editorial scalpel and undo all the errors Srila Prabhupada left us with and save the entire Jagat from being so grossly misinformed.
RE: BV Narayana Maharaja
PADA: RE: Narayana Maharaja said that the GBC are gurus, he also said they are monkeys. He does not know that monkeys are not gurus? And he said that they need to be seen as rati keli, he said that in answer to a question from Jayadvaita in 1978. Monkeys are not rati keli siddhas, I am surprised you do not know this. He was giving the GBC gurus rasika classes, and he was telling them about the colors of the gopis saris and all that, while the GBC was worshping deviants and perverts as their acharyas. And NM said our idea of worship of Srila Prabhupada is "ritvik poison." He was supporting them, and harassing us, and that means he helped the child molesting -- because we were trying to check that problem, and he was checking us, that means he helped the child molesting program by oppressing us critics of the molesting issue. He invited me to his ashram and left me sitting for 10 hours. He was not banned until 1993, from 1977 - 1993 he was their rasika guru, shiksha guru, biggest defender and cheer leader. He wanted to have Srila Prabhupada boycotted in 1972 in Mayapura, he was associated with the Gaudiya Matha folks who opposed Srila Prabhupada using the title of "Prabhupada." I was there, you seem to forget that? And NM was calling him "swami maharaja" then, in defiance of calling him "Prabhupada," and he did that the whole time up to his departure, he did that the whole time. One the other hand, NM said that the Gaudiya Matha folks who made homosexuals into gurus are his "Poojyapada, Prabhupada" acharyas and so on, he was doing that all along, and his followers still call Srila Prabhupada "swami maharaja" because they too are part of this program of insulting the acharya. ys pd
Sunday, April 14, 2013
Saturday, April 13, 2013
Commemoration in Bangalore
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