Thursday, January 31, 2013
Aindra feared "being burned at the stake" (Aindra pt.1)
AINDRA DASA: I only regret that, in a devotional society meant to instill fearlessness and individual thoughtfulness in its members, the atmospheric conditions are such that devotees opt to remain anonymous so as to circumvent the risk of being barbarously burned at the stake by the institutional powers that-be (the GBC gurus) for exercising their God-given right to freedom of pure devotional expression. Anyway, Krishna knows who they are, and I pray for His unreserved blessings upon them.
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AINDRA DASA: Several years ago, upon completing a major part of this treatise, I decided that I had better shelve the thing, despite my deep conviction about the need for this dimension of open and frank dissertation in contemporary Vaishnava society. I was thinking that perhaps the best place for it would be in a granthasamadhi (to be published after my death). After all, Srila Prabhupada had requested me to write a book. He didn’t say anything about taking it to the press. I thought it better to safeguard the peaceful prosecution of my bhajana by avoiding the likelihood of provoking certain anticipated institutional and interpersonal hostilities toward myself.
[PADA: Aindra frankly expresses that he is afraid to publish his book because it might "provoke certain institutional hostilities."
That means he is afraid that most likely there will be a hostile reaction by the "GBC GURU" leaders of the ISKCON institution against him for publishing his book.
Thus, at the very start of his book, he is saying he is worried that his bhajana will be disturbed if he speaks out against these ISKCON leaders, and that they will attack him in a hostile manner.
We are told that Aindra was crying to some of his associates that the GBC gurus wanted to "kick him out of his room." Well yes, that is how these bogus GBC GURUS treat those of us who disagree, "dissenters" are banned -- at the very least.
Aindra wanted to "safeguard" his service to Krishna, namely bhajana, by not speaking up about the issues surrounding these ISKCON leaders, but he finally decided to go ahead and release his book, despite being warned by these leaders not to publish his book or face some sort of punishment.
Aindra says in sum, that speaking the truth in ISKCON these days is a dangerous task since there will very likely be a hostile reaction by the leaders of ISKCON, and "hostile" of course could mean all kinds of things in the current ISKCON situation, but it may include: contrived excommunications, physical assaults, and possibly -- assassination. "Hostile acts" in the media often means, use of guns, shooting missiles, and in sum -- warfare and dead people. Therefore "hostile" is a very strong word for Aindra to use, to describe the potential actions and reactions of these leaders.]
AINDRA DASA: Perhaps after I’m dead and gone someone would unearth the manuscript and publish it as an assortment of novel Aindra-isms to be circulated among the curious. Otherwise, instead of shelving it, another idea was to author it incognito under a pen name.
[PADA: Aindra is afraid to have his name attached to his book because of the potential for hostile reactions from the GBC gurus. He is htinking he may have to publish as an incognito author, out of fear of GBC guru reprisals.]
AINDRA DASA: Subsequently, however, in a dream, I asked Srila Prabhupada whether he had any occasion to go through my book to which he replied, "We will see it when it is published."
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada personally encouraged Aindra to openly challenge these bogus GBC gurus, as he does in his book.]
AINDRA DASA: This indicated to me his intention that the book should not only be written but published as well. I consider it Krishna’s kind arrangement that a number of sober-minded, pure-hearted Vaishnavas and Vaishnavis came forward to selflessly assist me in the endeavor to produce this work. I am ever grateful to these individuals who sacrificed so much of their time and energy to help me. I only regret that, in a devotional society meant to instill fearlessness and individual thoughtfulness in its members, the atmospheric conditions are such that devotees opt to remain anonymous so as to circumvent the risk of being barbarously burned at the stake by the institutional powers that-be for exercising their God-given right to freedom of pure devotional expression. Anyway, Krishna knows who they are, and I pray for His unreserved blessings upon them.
[PADA: Yes, ISKCON is supposed to instill fearlessness, and instead it is making people fearful of the GBC GURU MAFIA. Even Aindra is fearfull of their possibly BURNING HIM AT THE STAKE. Very ironically, he was burnt to death by a so-called gas bottle stove accident. Of course in India gas bottle stove explosions are the number one method of killing unwanted brides, this is called the "burning bride syndrome." Brides are sleeping, and then a gas bottle stove is set alight to kill them. Was Aindra predicting his own death by burning when he was saying he would be, burned at the stake (by the malefic GBC guru sabha)? We are going to review some of Aindra's statements in the next parts of this series, to see why he would be a target for these bogus gurus. ys pd]
[BRIDE BURNING IN INDIA]
http://www.examiner.com/article/bride-burning-india-pakistan-and-bangladesh-is-acceptable-murder
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Wednesday, January 30, 2013
Tuesday, January 29, 2013
Tripurari mj against "over-glorification of Prabhupada"
[PADA NOTE: Tripurari swami has been reportedly going recently to places like North Carolina, to promote his own books. A few devotees called me from there to report that they are very upset that he is promoting his own books and not Srila Prabhupada's books. Apparently, he is also publicly criticizing the Prabhupadanugas and Bangalore's program and so on.
We are amazed that Tripurari still doesn't get it, his "Shiksha Guru" "BR Sridhara Maharaja" promoted a bi-sexual deviant as the acharya of the GAUDIYA MATHA in 1936, and that program failed miserably. Sridhara Maharaja's bogus guru (Ananta Vasudeva) fell down into illicit behavior and "dissenters" were beaten with bricks, has their faces pushed into dogs stools, and some were killed. All of this resulted in the ruination of the Gaudiya Matha mission, as Srila Prabhupada states over and over.
Oddly, one of the followers of NARYANA MAHARAJA (BV Suddhhadvaditi swami) is recently complaining that the followers of NM's "guru successor" aka Tirtha Maharaja, might have violent followers in Bengal who would attack people for criticizing Tirtha's illicit behaviors. In other words, these Gaudiya Matha folks tend to promote bogus gurus, and this results in potentially violent cults. And then after 1977, Sridhara Maharaja promoted the GBC's 11 bogus gurus, and that program has also failed. Tripurari swami simply does not seem to comprehend the fact that -- these bogus living gurus are being rejected all over the place. Moreover, a number of us have been compiling the criminal and violent out-croppings emanating from these bogus gurus, and this does not paint a pretty picture.]
19 Years Ago, the Swami Trips BY: DRAVINAKSA DAS
Regarding the recent article "Returning to the Fold: Letter from Swamis B.V. Tripurari and B.G. Narasingha", the hot button is in the 7th paragraph of Tripurari Swamis 1994 letter, where the Swami shares what he believes
We are amazed that Tripurari still doesn't get it, his "Shiksha Guru" "BR Sridhara Maharaja" promoted a bi-sexual deviant as the acharya of the GAUDIYA MATHA in 1936, and that program failed miserably. Sridhara Maharaja's bogus guru (Ananta Vasudeva) fell down into illicit behavior and "dissenters" were beaten with bricks, has their faces pushed into dogs stools, and some were killed. All of this resulted in the ruination of the Gaudiya Matha mission, as Srila Prabhupada states over and over.
Oddly, one of the followers of NARYANA MAHARAJA (BV Suddhhadvaditi swami) is recently complaining that the followers of NM's "guru successor" aka Tirtha Maharaja, might have violent followers in Bengal who would attack people for criticizing Tirtha's illicit behaviors. In other words, these Gaudiya Matha folks tend to promote bogus gurus, and this results in potentially violent cults. And then after 1977, Sridhara Maharaja promoted the GBC's 11 bogus gurus, and that program has also failed. Tripurari swami simply does not seem to comprehend the fact that -- these bogus living gurus are being rejected all over the place. Moreover, a number of us have been compiling the criminal and violent out-croppings emanating from these bogus gurus, and this does not paint a pretty picture.]
19 Years Ago, the Swami Trips BY: DRAVINAKSA DAS
Regarding the recent article "Returning to the Fold: Letter from Swamis B.V. Tripurari and B.G. Narasingha", the hot button is in the 7th paragraph of Tripurari Swamis 1994 letter, where the Swami shares what he believes
(Swami BV Tripurari) "...to be the greatest problem facing ISKCON today. Iskcon is suffering from, of all things, over glorification of Srila Prabhupada."
Then he says this breeds fanaticism, quoting and understanding Srila Prabhupada out of context.
[PADA: Right, Tripurari's guru Sridhara Maharaja wanted us to worship the 11 GBC "self appointed acharyas" as ISKCON's gurus, and the result was fanaticism and murders of dissenters, and so on and so forth. And Sridhara Maharaja spawned the same exact fanatical program in 1936 when he promoted a homosexual deviant as the guru there, and dissenters were also murdered and so on and so forth. And what exactly is "over glorification of Srila Prabhupada"? Does that mean we are failing to glorify Sridhara Maharaja and his bogus guru projects?]
DD: Actually this is not ISKCON's disease at all. (Even though misquoting Srila Prabhupada is not out of fashion amongst the management.) The real illness is the leaders not following Srila Prabhupada's instructions. For example: Srila Prabhupada said never to sell the 12 story New York temple. When the guru is away, the rats will play and the preaching has suffered to this day.
"Don't change the books". Now someone says that changing books is the way. Will the teachings be lost?
"A guru must be at the topmost level of Krishna consciousness." Now a guru is a conditioned soul. This cheating has caused so much suffering. I've seen grown men cry. Whole zones of devotees have deserted their posts, hundreds leaving the society all together.
"The children should not be hit... they should be well fed... they should not be forced to chant..." Who put the perverts in position and hid their sins until the gurukulas collapsed?
Here is a hot one: "No more sannyasa. It has become a farce." (1977) As usual, Srila Prabhupada is right on the button. The blooped swamis that I've met have suffered enormously. But the latest Srila Bankaccount Maharaja keeps the orange lungi cult alive.
If you examine ISKCON's problems and even your personal problems, the cause is one: disobeying the orders of the Acharya, Srila Prabhupada. And Srila Prabhupada is just trying to get us out of a miserable place to enjoy eternally with Krishna.
DD: Actually this is not ISKCON's disease at all. (Even though misquoting Srila Prabhupada is not out of fashion amongst the management.) The real illness is the leaders not following Srila Prabhupada's instructions. For example: Srila Prabhupada said never to sell the 12 story New York temple. When the guru is away, the rats will play and the preaching has suffered to this day.
"Don't change the books". Now someone says that changing books is the way. Will the teachings be lost?
"A guru must be at the topmost level of Krishna consciousness." Now a guru is a conditioned soul. This cheating has caused so much suffering. I've seen grown men cry. Whole zones of devotees have deserted their posts, hundreds leaving the society all together.
"The children should not be hit... they should be well fed... they should not be forced to chant..." Who put the perverts in position and hid their sins until the gurukulas collapsed?
Here is a hot one: "No more sannyasa. It has become a farce." (1977) As usual, Srila Prabhupada is right on the button. The blooped swamis that I've met have suffered enormously. But the latest Srila Bankaccount Maharaja keeps the orange lungi cult alive.
If you examine ISKCON's problems and even your personal problems, the cause is one: disobeying the orders of the Acharya, Srila Prabhupada. And Srila Prabhupada is just trying to get us out of a miserable place to enjoy eternally with Krishna.
Letter from Gadhadara dasa (Berkeley CA)
By Gadadhara das (Berkeley, CA)
Dear Bhakti Vikasha Maharaj,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Over the years I have noticed that you have stepped forward to speak with “frank” and “bold” statements regarding issues that you think stray from Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. I have also noticed that you wrote a book called, “On Speaking Strongly in Srila Prabhupada’s Service.” I have not read it, but Srila Prabhupada writes, “I want that you all my advanced disciples become very bold preachers and take up this task of saving the fallen humanity from its worst condition of sinfulness.”
Actually it is in line with this very quote and another misquote that I am writing you. I am writing you because I am surprised that you have fell victim to misrepresenting the verse “amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa”.
You write:
“What is the qualification?”
Especially as Srila Prabhupada’s statements about succession have been variously interpreted, we must be very careful to not introduce preconceptions or personal motivations when attempting to understand and explain the statements and intentions of our acarya. Yet the simple and clear understanding here, directly derived from Srila Prabhupada’s own words, is that the qualification to be a guru is to be a strict follower.
You and so many others have completely taken it out of context for so many years. This has been parroted by so many as a free ticket to Guru Stardom, but what is the context of the quote? That is the real question. In this part of the Chaitanya Charitamrta Lord Chaitanya has traveled to South India and is converting everyone to be Vaishnavas just by his glance. It is stated that the entire country of India became Vaishnavas. While in South India He meets a materially successful house holder named Kurma and goes to his house.
Kurma has everything, a beautiful wife, money, children. He begs Lord Chaitanya “My dear Lord kindly show me favor and let me go with You. I can no longer tolerate the waves of misery caused by material life.” In the purport to this verse Srila Prabhupada quotes Narottama das Thakur, “samsara-visanale, diva-nisi hiya jvale”. In this verse Narottama das Thakur writes about the burning in the heart caused by materialistic life and Srila Prabhupada goes on to say that at the end of life one should renounce all family life and go to the forest. THEN in the next verse Lord Chaitanya replies to Kurma, “Don’t speak like that again.”
Its not that Kurma was necessarily wrong, because as Srila Prabhupada states, it is advised in the scriptures to do this type of thing in the Vedic literatures. But still Lord Chaitanya says, “Don’t speak like that again.”
This is the context of this famously misquoted verse “amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa.” The house holder Kurma wanted to renounce everything and go off with the Lord and become a renounced Guru, just like so many in today’s world. They wanted to join Srila Prabhupada, dress like him, and do what he did, just like Kurma wanted to join Lord Chaitanya. But Lord Chaitanya’s reply is, “Don’t speak like that again.”
Srila Prabhupada nails the meaning in the purport to verse CC. Madhya 7.127
“Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu further advised the brahmaṇa Kurma, “If you follow this instruction, your materialistic life at home will not obstruct your spiritual advancement. Indeed, if you follow these regulative principles, we will again meet here, or, rather, you will never lose My company.”
PURPORT
This is an opportunity for everyone. If one simply follows the instructions of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, under the guidance of His representative, and chants the Hare Krishna mantra, teaching everyone as far as possible the same principle, the contamination of the materialistic way of life will not even touch him. It does not matter whether one lives in a holy place like Vrindavana, Navadvipa or Jagannatha Puri or in the midst of European cities, where the materialistic way of life is very prominent. If a devotee follows the instructions of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he lives in the company of the Lord. Wherever he lives, he converts that place into Vrindavana and Navadvipa. This means that materialism cannot touch him. This is the secret of success for one advancing in Krishna consciousness.
So this is the real context of the verse, “Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Sri Krishna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land.” This means the one should stay in whatever position they are in and preach Krishna Consciousness and IN THAT WAY they become a spiritual master. It does not mean that they are instructed to take disciples. There is no instruction to take any disciples in this part of the Sri Chaitanya Caritamrita.
If one is preaching by their example, like it says in the purport before, by reading Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam, chanting with their families, and cooking prasadam for everyone, then they are at the front of the line in preaching and yes they are spiritual masters. But to give initiations to someone, they must have a personal specific instruction from the spiritual master.
Srila Prabhupada says,
“Nobody can be self-made anything. A medical practitioner, he cannot become self-made, that “I have studied all the medical books in my home.” No. “Have you ever gone to the medical college and taken instruction from the bona fide teachers?” Then, if you have got the certificate, then you are medical practitioner. Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. He must receive the order from the superior. And the superior must be bona fide. Then he’s bona fide, not self-made” (Vrindaban, Oct 31st 1972)
No one can become a self-made diksha guru just from this quote of Lord Chaitanya, that "everyone become guru." Lord Chaitanya gave a specific instruction to Kurma "don’t speak like that" when he was saying he wanted to give up everything and travel with Him. Kurma wanted to be "self-made." He wanted to go by his own idea. Lord Chaitanya says, "don’t speak like that." He says just stay here and chant Hare Krishna and read Gita and give out prasadam and in THAT WAY become a spiritual master. Otherwise what is the meaning of Diksha Guru? What is the distinction? There are different kinds of Gurus: siksha, diksha, mother, teacher, speaker: what are the distinctions? There are distinctions.
That is a different subject, but at least this one verse should be taken in context. As I quoted before, Srila Prabhupada writes, “I want that you all my advanced disciples become very bold preachers and take up this task of saving the fallen humanity from its worst condition of sinfulness.” (8/16/74) This is the same instruction.
Dear Bhakti Vikasha Maharaj,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Over the years I have noticed that you have stepped forward to speak with “frank” and “bold” statements regarding issues that you think stray from Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. I have also noticed that you wrote a book called, “On Speaking Strongly in Srila Prabhupada’s Service.” I have not read it, but Srila Prabhupada writes, “I want that you all my advanced disciples become very bold preachers and take up this task of saving the fallen humanity from its worst condition of sinfulness.”
Actually it is in line with this very quote and another misquote that I am writing you. I am writing you because I am surprised that you have fell victim to misrepresenting the verse “amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa”.
You write:
“What is the qualification?”
The answer to this is given by Srila Prabhupada himself in the famous conversation of April 22, 1977:
“Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that, amara ajnaya guru hana.’ You become guru.’ But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower.”
“Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that, amara ajnaya guru hana.’ You become guru.’ But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower.”
Especially as Srila Prabhupada’s statements about succession have been variously interpreted, we must be very careful to not introduce preconceptions or personal motivations when attempting to understand and explain the statements and intentions of our acarya. Yet the simple and clear understanding here, directly derived from Srila Prabhupada’s own words, is that the qualification to be a guru is to be a strict follower.
You and so many others have completely taken it out of context for so many years. This has been parroted by so many as a free ticket to Guru Stardom, but what is the context of the quote? That is the real question. In this part of the Chaitanya Charitamrta Lord Chaitanya has traveled to South India and is converting everyone to be Vaishnavas just by his glance. It is stated that the entire country of India became Vaishnavas. While in South India He meets a materially successful house holder named Kurma and goes to his house.
Kurma has everything, a beautiful wife, money, children. He begs Lord Chaitanya “My dear Lord kindly show me favor and let me go with You. I can no longer tolerate the waves of misery caused by material life.” In the purport to this verse Srila Prabhupada quotes Narottama das Thakur, “samsara-visanale, diva-nisi hiya jvale”. In this verse Narottama das Thakur writes about the burning in the heart caused by materialistic life and Srila Prabhupada goes on to say that at the end of life one should renounce all family life and go to the forest. THEN in the next verse Lord Chaitanya replies to Kurma, “Don’t speak like that again.”
Its not that Kurma was necessarily wrong, because as Srila Prabhupada states, it is advised in the scriptures to do this type of thing in the Vedic literatures. But still Lord Chaitanya says, “Don’t speak like that again.”
This is the context of this famously misquoted verse “amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa.” The house holder Kurma wanted to renounce everything and go off with the Lord and become a renounced Guru, just like so many in today’s world. They wanted to join Srila Prabhupada, dress like him, and do what he did, just like Kurma wanted to join Lord Chaitanya. But Lord Chaitanya’s reply is, “Don’t speak like that again.”
Srila Prabhupada nails the meaning in the purport to verse CC. Madhya 7.127
"It is not advisable in this Age of Kali to leave one’s family suddenly, for people are not trained as proper brahmacaris and grihasthas. Therefore Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu advised the brahmaṇa not to be too eager to give up family life. It would be better to remain with his family and try to become purified by chanting the Hare Krishna maha-mantra regularly under the direction of a spiritual master. This is the instruction of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. If this principle is followed by everyone, there is no need to accept sannyasa. In the next verse Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu advises everyone to become an ideal householder by offenselessly chanting the Hare Krishna mantra and teaching the same principle to everyone he meets."
Then the famously misquoted verse Madhya 7.128: “yare dekha, tare kaha ‘krsna’-upadesa amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa” -- “Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Sri Krishna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land.”
Srila Prabhupada again continues to make it clear in the purport:
“This is the sublime mission of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Many people come and inquire whether they have to give up family life to join the Society, but that is not our mission. One can remain comfortably in his residence. We simply request everyone to chant the maha-mantra: Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. If one is a little literate and can read the Bhagavad-gita As It Is and Srimad-Bhagavatam, that is so much the better.”
Srila Prabhupada goes on to write about chanting with ones family and following the 4 regulative principles and making prasadam for the Lord. And at the end, just so we understand, again Srila Prabhupada writes, “The Krishna consciousness movement is trying to elevate human society to the perfection of life by pursuing the method described by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His advice to the brahmaṇa Kurma. That is, one should stay at home, chant the Hare Krishna mantra and preach the instructions of Krishna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam.”
And then the next verse again it is explained:
Then the famously misquoted verse Madhya 7.128: “yare dekha, tare kaha ‘krsna’-upadesa amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa” -- “Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Sri Krishna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land.”
Srila Prabhupada again continues to make it clear in the purport:
“This is the sublime mission of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Many people come and inquire whether they have to give up family life to join the Society, but that is not our mission. One can remain comfortably in his residence. We simply request everyone to chant the maha-mantra: Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. If one is a little literate and can read the Bhagavad-gita As It Is and Srimad-Bhagavatam, that is so much the better.”
Srila Prabhupada goes on to write about chanting with ones family and following the 4 regulative principles and making prasadam for the Lord. And at the end, just so we understand, again Srila Prabhupada writes, “The Krishna consciousness movement is trying to elevate human society to the perfection of life by pursuing the method described by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His advice to the brahmaṇa Kurma. That is, one should stay at home, chant the Hare Krishna mantra and preach the instructions of Krishna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam.”
And then the next verse again it is explained:
“Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu further advised the brahmaṇa Kurma, “If you follow this instruction, your materialistic life at home will not obstruct your spiritual advancement. Indeed, if you follow these regulative principles, we will again meet here, or, rather, you will never lose My company.”
PURPORT
This is an opportunity for everyone. If one simply follows the instructions of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, under the guidance of His representative, and chants the Hare Krishna mantra, teaching everyone as far as possible the same principle, the contamination of the materialistic way of life will not even touch him. It does not matter whether one lives in a holy place like Vrindavana, Navadvipa or Jagannatha Puri or in the midst of European cities, where the materialistic way of life is very prominent. If a devotee follows the instructions of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he lives in the company of the Lord. Wherever he lives, he converts that place into Vrindavana and Navadvipa. This means that materialism cannot touch him. This is the secret of success for one advancing in Krishna consciousness.
So this is the real context of the verse, “Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Sri Krishna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land.” This means the one should stay in whatever position they are in and preach Krishna Consciousness and IN THAT WAY they become a spiritual master. It does not mean that they are instructed to take disciples. There is no instruction to take any disciples in this part of the Sri Chaitanya Caritamrita.
If one is preaching by their example, like it says in the purport before, by reading Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam, chanting with their families, and cooking prasadam for everyone, then they are at the front of the line in preaching and yes they are spiritual masters. But to give initiations to someone, they must have a personal specific instruction from the spiritual master.
Srila Prabhupada says,
“Nobody can be self-made anything. A medical practitioner, he cannot become self-made, that “I have studied all the medical books in my home.” No. “Have you ever gone to the medical college and taken instruction from the bona fide teachers?” Then, if you have got the certificate, then you are medical practitioner. Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. He must receive the order from the superior. And the superior must be bona fide. Then he’s bona fide, not self-made” (Vrindaban, Oct 31st 1972)
No one can become a self-made diksha guru just from this quote of Lord Chaitanya, that "everyone become guru." Lord Chaitanya gave a specific instruction to Kurma "don’t speak like that" when he was saying he wanted to give up everything and travel with Him. Kurma wanted to be "self-made." He wanted to go by his own idea. Lord Chaitanya says, "don’t speak like that." He says just stay here and chant Hare Krishna and read Gita and give out prasadam and in THAT WAY become a spiritual master. Otherwise what is the meaning of Diksha Guru? What is the distinction? There are different kinds of Gurus: siksha, diksha, mother, teacher, speaker: what are the distinctions? There are distinctions.
That is a different subject, but at least this one verse should be taken in context. As I quoted before, Srila Prabhupada writes, “I want that you all my advanced disciples become very bold preachers and take up this task of saving the fallen humanity from its worst condition of sinfulness.” (8/16/74) This is the same instruction.
Just give up your “own ideas” and surrender on to what your guru wants. In the same manner Krishna says to Arjuna, “Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.” In other words, just listen and stop making your own “varieties” and go out and chant Hare Krishna and read Gita and make prasadam and in that way “teach” others. So many Prabhupada disciples want to become like Kurma and do what THEY WANT TO DO for Srila Prabhupada, but hardly anyone wants to DO WHAT SRILA PRABHUPADA wants them to do.
Srila Prabhupada and Lord Chaitanya want them to just make it simple, BE WHO YOU ARE, Chant Hare Krishna, Read Bhagavatam, make Prasada and speak to others about what you heard : Sravanam Kirtanam. It is a simple process. ys Gadadhara dasa
[PADA NOTE: Yes, the GBC now says everyone can be a guru, except they first of all in 1977 said no, only 11 can be the gurus? Then they said, only those voted in by the 11 can be gurus, and so on, they never actually established a policy that all of the devotees could be gurus? No, you need to be voted in by persons most of whom have fallen in order to be a guru, that is their process. They do not allow "everyone" to be guru, they only allow people who agree to their principle that acharyas are most of the time fallen debauchees, and only if you agree to their bogus principle idea, can you be eligible for a vote. Of course guru by vote is another bogus idea itself, but that is another topic. ys pd]
Monday, January 28, 2013
Mahasringha das "call a spade a spade"
Mahasrnga-Crawford Dasa: Hare Krsna Mishra prabhu, ... But like the GBC, you think if you call a spade a spade, it's offensive. How about the fact that Tamal Krishna Goswami and his 10 other imitation "acharyas" drove out thousands of Prabhupada's disciples from his movement because they wouldn't worship them. It doesn't pain you when I criticize TKG 'goswami', it pains you when I reveal historical facts.
=======================================
Srila Prabhupada: So you cannot expect that ordinary person will come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You see? Because they have been trained to become flies, they will taste stool. You see? The modern education is to teach people to become flies, only stool. Not here, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But you make it a honeycomb. Those who are after, seeking after honey, they will find, "Here is something." You see? Don't make it a stool society. You see? Make it a honey society. At least, give chance, those who are seeking after honey. Don't cheat people. So they'll come. [...] [-690606SB.NV]
Srila Prabhupada: So you cannot expect that ordinary person will come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You see? Because they have been trained to become flies, they will taste stool. You see? The modern education is to teach people to become flies, only stool. Not here, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But you make it a honeycomb. Those who are after, seeking after honey, they will find, "Here is something." You see? Don't make it a stool society. You see? Make it a honey society. At least, give chance, those who are seeking after honey. Don't cheat people. So they'll come. [...] [-690606SB.NV]
European GBC meetings video
http://vimeo.com/58282042
PADA: Yup, this is where people all come together to support Jayadvaita and his idea that messiahs are engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children. Told ya! ys pd
PADA: Yup, this is where people all come together to support Jayadvaita and his idea that messiahs are engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children. Told ya! ys pd
Kali yuga: people will eat their own children?
http://news.yahoo.com/north-koreans-reportedly-turn-cannibalism-due-hidden-famine-122128957.html
A report from North Korea says people there are turning to cannibalism and even killing and eating their own children. If so, and the reporters on this story have been accurate in the past, this is one of the symptoms of KALI YUGA: that people will eat other people, and even kill their children to eat them. This verifies accounts from the statements of the Srimad Bhagavatam that cannibalism will begin in KALI YUGA. This is why Srila Prabhupada said, do not come back here, Kali Yuga will be getting more and more worse all the time. ys pd
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A report from North Korea says people there are turning to cannibalism and even killing and eating their own children. If so, and the reporters on this story have been accurate in the past, this is one of the symptoms of KALI YUGA: that people will eat other people, and even kill their children to eat them. This verifies accounts from the statements of the Srimad Bhagavatam that cannibalism will begin in KALI YUGA. This is why Srila Prabhupada said, do not come back here, Kali Yuga will be getting more and more worse all the time. ys pd
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Sunday, January 27, 2013
Siddhaswarupa and the WVA
http://www.jagadgurusiddhaswarupananda.org/2007/03/about-jagad-guru-siddhaswarupananda.html
Siddhaswarupa claims to be working with other Gaudiya Matha gurus? ys pd
Siddhaswarupa claims to be working with other Gaudiya Matha gurus? ys pd
Bhakti Vikas raises more questions than answers
HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami's Answer Begs More Questions
BY: SATTVIC DAS
Dear Bhakti Vikas Maharaja, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Thank you very much for your quick response. I am grateful for that. I am also grateful to Rocana prabhu for posting my questions. Your answer to my questions created more questions.
You quote: "Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that, amara ajnaya guru hana.' You become guru.' But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower."
Even though I agree that this verse by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu indicates that everyone should become guru, it does not necessarily means that it gives an order for everyone to become a Diksha guru. It also means a preacher, a person who teaches others the science of Krishna consciousness, like many of us who are not initiating spiritual masters but meet people in our lives and preaches to them.
In verse 130 of the same chapter Srila Prabhupada in the purport states: "One should not try to be an artificially advanced devotee, thinking, "I am a first-class devotee." Such thinking should be avoided. It is best not to accept any disciples."
My first question to you is this: Why would Srila Prabhupada state "It is best not to accept any disciples" when the order of Mahaprabhu states that everyone should be a guru?
You state that a guru should be a strict follower. True.
Without strictly following one cannot even be a disciple. It is a pre-requisite for initiation, as such one can say that even though one must be strictly following to be a guru, it is not enough. There must be more than that qualification to occupy the post of the spiritual master. Please allow me to quote Srila Prabhupada on this subject.
Maha-bhagavata-srestho brahmano vai gurur nrnam / sarvesam eva lokanam asau pujyo yatha harih / maha-kula-prasuto" pi sarva-yajnesu diksitah / sahasra-sakhadhya yi ca na guruh syad avaisnavah
"The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class."(C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)
"When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)
My next question. If to even aspire to be a disciple one must be strictly following, how is it that the qualification for becoming a diksha guru, ‘strictly following' is good enough? One may think, were the ISKCON authorized gurus strictly following when they were giving initiation? And after they fall down what happens to their disciples? Was their initiation bona fide? ISKCON in the past demanded they take re-initiation. Many did, just to experience the same trauma. Now they simply say take shelter of Srila Prabhupada or the senior Vaisnavas.
My next two questions to you: Can it be safely said that they are then disciples of Srila Prabhupada, since their diksha guru fell down and thereby is not ‘strictly following'? Who is taking the responsibility to take such unfortunate souls back home back to Godhead?
We sing daily the Guruvastakam to glorify our Spiritual Master. Srila Visvanatha Chakravarty Thakur's prayers are describing a highly elevated maha-bhagavata. One who is in direct relationship with Radha Madhava, who is assisting the Gopis. The English translation says that He offers his humble obeisances to the lotus feet of such a spiritual master. The word "such" creates a distinction.
My next two questions: Who are we singing this prayer to every morning in ISKCON? Are you asking your disciples to meditate on your good self at mangal arotik?
Conversation, May 27, 1977 - Vrindavana:
Bhavananda: There will be men, I know. There will be men who want to try and pose themselves as guru.
Tamala Krishna: That was going on many years ago. Your Godbrothers were thinking like that. Madhava Maharaja...
Bhavananda: Oh, yes. Oh, ready to jump.
Prabhupada: Very strong management required and vigilant observation. (background whispering, Tamala Krsna and Bhavananda) So you are foreign...
My next two questions: Bhavananda is telling Srila Prabhupada that there will be men who want to try and pose themselves as guru. Which kind of guru was he talking about?
Srila Prabhupada answers "Very strong management required and vigilant observation" - for What?
Dear Bhakti Vikas Maharaja, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Thank you very much for your quick response. I am grateful for that. I am also grateful to Rocana prabhu for posting my questions. Your answer to my questions created more questions.
You quote: "Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that, amara ajnaya guru hana.' You become guru.' But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower."
Even though I agree that this verse by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu indicates that everyone should become guru, it does not necessarily means that it gives an order for everyone to become a Diksha guru. It also means a preacher, a person who teaches others the science of Krishna consciousness, like many of us who are not initiating spiritual masters but meet people in our lives and preaches to them.
In verse 130 of the same chapter Srila Prabhupada in the purport states: "One should not try to be an artificially advanced devotee, thinking, "I am a first-class devotee." Such thinking should be avoided. It is best not to accept any disciples."
My first question to you is this: Why would Srila Prabhupada state "It is best not to accept any disciples" when the order of Mahaprabhu states that everyone should be a guru?
You state that a guru should be a strict follower. True.
Without strictly following one cannot even be a disciple. It is a pre-requisite for initiation, as such one can say that even though one must be strictly following to be a guru, it is not enough. There must be more than that qualification to occupy the post of the spiritual master. Please allow me to quote Srila Prabhupada on this subject.
Maha-bhagavata-srestho brahmano vai gurur nrnam / sarvesam eva lokanam asau pujyo yatha harih / maha-kula-prasuto" pi sarva-yajnesu diksitah / sahasra-sakhadhya yi ca na guruh syad avaisnavah
"The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class."(C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)
"When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)
My next question. If to even aspire to be a disciple one must be strictly following, how is it that the qualification for becoming a diksha guru, ‘strictly following' is good enough? One may think, were the ISKCON authorized gurus strictly following when they were giving initiation? And after they fall down what happens to their disciples? Was their initiation bona fide? ISKCON in the past demanded they take re-initiation. Many did, just to experience the same trauma. Now they simply say take shelter of Srila Prabhupada or the senior Vaisnavas.
My next two questions to you: Can it be safely said that they are then disciples of Srila Prabhupada, since their diksha guru fell down and thereby is not ‘strictly following'? Who is taking the responsibility to take such unfortunate souls back home back to Godhead?
We sing daily the Guruvastakam to glorify our Spiritual Master. Srila Visvanatha Chakravarty Thakur's prayers are describing a highly elevated maha-bhagavata. One who is in direct relationship with Radha Madhava, who is assisting the Gopis. The English translation says that He offers his humble obeisances to the lotus feet of such a spiritual master. The word "such" creates a distinction.
My next two questions: Who are we singing this prayer to every morning in ISKCON? Are you asking your disciples to meditate on your good self at mangal arotik?
Conversation, May 27, 1977 - Vrindavana:
Bhavananda: There will be men, I know. There will be men who want to try and pose themselves as guru.
Tamala Krishna: That was going on many years ago. Your Godbrothers were thinking like that. Madhava Maharaja...
Bhavananda: Oh, yes. Oh, ready to jump.
Prabhupada: Very strong management required and vigilant observation. (background whispering, Tamala Krsna and Bhavananda) So you are foreign...
My next two questions: Bhavananda is telling Srila Prabhupada that there will be men who want to try and pose themselves as guru. Which kind of guru was he talking about?
Srila Prabhupada answers "Very strong management required and vigilant observation" - for What?
Room Conversation, April 22, 1977:
Prabhupada: People complained against [a GBC for trying to appear as a guru]. ...You become guru, but you must be QUALIFIED FIRST of all. THEN you become. ...What is the use of producing some RASCAL GURU?
Tamala Krishna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are ALL CONDITIONED SOULS, so we CANNOT BE gurus. MAYBE someday it may be possible....
Prabhupada: Hm. [agrees]
Tamala Krishna: ...but not now.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall produce some gurus. I shall say who is guru, 'Now you become acharya. You become authorized.' I retire completely. But the training must be COMPLETE.
Tamala Krishna: The process of purification must be there. ...No rubber stamp.
Prabhupada: You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to be guru. A small temple and "guru." What kind of guru?
Prabhupada: People complained against [a GBC for trying to appear as a guru]. ...You become guru, but you must be QUALIFIED FIRST of all. THEN you become. ...What is the use of producing some RASCAL GURU?
Tamala Krishna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are ALL CONDITIONED SOULS, so we CANNOT BE gurus. MAYBE someday it may be possible....
Prabhupada: Hm. [agrees]
Tamala Krishna: ...but not now.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall produce some gurus. I shall say who is guru, 'Now you become acharya. You become authorized.' I retire completely. But the training must be COMPLETE.
Tamala Krishna: The process of purification must be there. ...No rubber stamp.
Prabhupada: You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to be guru. A small temple and "guru." What kind of guru?
Tamal Krishna accepts that he is a conditioned soul. He studied himself and all of his God brothers. Srila Prabhupada wants to produce some gurus. He says I shall say who is guru, 'Now you become acharya. You become authorized.' I retire completely. But the training must be COMPLETE.'
My next two questions: When was the training complete?
Has the training been completed even as we speak?
In conclusion: Your answer has created many more questions and I pray you can answer satisfactorily. I, like many other God brothers truly wish to work and co-operate within the Institution so kindly created by Srila Prabhupada for our quick reform and purification. I am saddened and am truly suffering that I am unable to work within the ISKCON framework, as it is not what we have joined so many years ago.
I hope you can throw some light on this very fundamental topic. Again I wish to thank Rocana prabhu for his kindness and for your friendship and prompt reply. Let us pray that by these healthy discussions the truth can be churned out for the benefit of all.
Always begging to remain your humble servant,
Sattvic das
My next two questions: When was the training complete?
Has the training been completed even as we speak?
In conclusion: Your answer has created many more questions and I pray you can answer satisfactorily. I, like many other God brothers truly wish to work and co-operate within the Institution so kindly created by Srila Prabhupada for our quick reform and purification. I am saddened and am truly suffering that I am unable to work within the ISKCON framework, as it is not what we have joined so many years ago.
I hope you can throw some light on this very fundamental topic. Again I wish to thank Rocana prabhu for his kindness and for your friendship and prompt reply. Let us pray that by these healthy discussions the truth can be churned out for the benefit of all.
Always begging to remain your humble servant,
Sattvic das
Saturday, January 26, 2013
Bhakti Vikas mj is the acharya's "manager"?
Guru to be a Strict Follower
BY: H.H. BHAKTI VIKASA SWAMI
Jan 25, 2013 — INDIA
Regarding the contention "that Srila Prabhupada authorized all his disciples to initiate after his physical departure," my old friend Sattvic Prabhu has questioned,
1) Did Srila Prabhupada accept that his disciples were qualified?
2) Did he expect them to become qualified in due course of time?
Which leads to Sattvic Prabhu's next query:
"What is the qualification?"
BY: H.H. BHAKTI VIKASA SWAMI
Jan 25, 2013 — INDIA
Regarding the contention "that Srila Prabhupada authorized all his disciples to initiate after his physical departure," my old friend Sattvic Prabhu has questioned,
1) Did Srila Prabhupada accept that his disciples were qualified?
2) Did he expect them to become qualified in due course of time?
Which leads to Sattvic Prabhu's next query:
"What is the qualification?"
The answer to this is given by Srila Prabhupada himself in the famous conversation of April 22, 1977:
"Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that, amara ajnaya guru hana.' You become guru.' But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower."
[PD: And in that same conversation Srila Prabhupada says his followers will become guru when he orders, yet there is no evidence Srila Prabhupada "ordered" any diksha gurus? "Strictly following the order," but there is no order for the neophytes of ISKCON to take the post of guru, and imitate the acharyas thereby? Of course, the concept of "not imitating the acharya" is true in almost any religion. For example, as soon as someone in the Christian religion begins to think he is the successor to Jesus, generally, there is chaos and all kinds of cult meltdowns.
Of course recently the BVKS program is being criticized for burying a known homosexual pedophile in "a samadhi" the holy land of Vrndavana, because in the BVKS party they basically have the idea that just about any fool, clown, deviant and debauchee can become an acharya. This was never ordered by Srila Prabhupada, nor is this following strictly anything he ever said. Nor has there even been any example of known homosexual pedophiles being buried in samadhis and so on and so forth, in other words BVKS entire program is all based on NOT following strictly.
Tamal also admits in Topanga in December 1980, the idea that gurus have been appointed in ISKCON is "a myth." Hansadutta dasa and others have confirmed this, there was never any order from Srila Prabhupada for ISKCON's leaders to become gurus. So the ISKCON gurus keep saying they are strictly following the order of Srila Prabhupada, and the order is to be an ISKCON guru, except, there is no order for such neophytes to become gurus? Rather the order is, do not imitate the post of guru (which oddly BVKS quotes below).
Moreover in January of 1977 Srila Prabhupada was saying ISKCON needs to suspend sannyasa because his followers are not even fit for the renounced order, so -- why would he appoint the very same exact "unfit" people as gurus a few months later (in May of 1977)? And why doesn't BVKS know that people who are not fit for sannyasa, or barely fit, are not fit to be acharyas?
That Srila Prabhupada would have wanted, ordered or appointed conditioned souls and unqualified neophytes to the post of guru is simply saying that Srila Prabhupada makes mistakes. The entire BVKS program rests on the theory that Srila Prabhupada had wanted and ordered neophytes, or even less than neophytes, to take the post of acharyas aka "God's successor gurus." This is a direct attack on Srila Prabhupada's integrity. Then again, the Gaudiya Matha's folks said that Srila Saraswati had wanted and ordered neophytes to take the post of guru, BVKS is thus simply a disciple of these deviants.
Also in the same 1977 conversation BVKS quotes above, it says that when these GBC and ISKCON leaders deviate, they will have to be replaced. How can people who deviate and need to be replaced be -- gurus? This is another major problem with BVKS, he thinks that the "successors to Krishna" aka acharyas are (or they become) fools who deviate. And then the BVKS program has devised all kinds of concocted tools to "fix and repair" their fools posing as messiahs. For example, the BVKS program says their gurus need to be -- reformed, censured, admonished, rectified, removed and replaced (and so on) -- by the overseers of the acharyas, namely BVKS and his moderating council, ... the same "GBC" council of which BVKS is a contributor and backer?
How can a council of defective people dictate to, and in sum "fix and repair" the acharya?
And since (according to the quotes below) it is Krishna who dictates to the acharyas, how can BVKS claim to have replaced Krishna -- and BVKS is now taking over the post of dictating to the acharyas? When someone says he has overtaken Krishna's position, is that not the seed element of how we all fell into the material world in the first place? So BVKS in effect says, "I am a very humble man, therefore I have taken over the post of God Almighty, and I have kicked Him down the street and I am now doing His job, because God is quite a lousy manager of His acharyas, so I had to take over His job." Is this humility, or is this ego on steroids, or is this just plain criminal madness?
BVKS: Especially as Srila Prabhupada's statements about succession have been variously interpreted, we must be very careful to not introduce preconceptions or personal motivations when attempting to understand and explain the statements and intentions of our acarya. Yet the simple and clear understanding here, directly derived from Srila Prabhupada's own words, is that the qualification to be a guru is to be a strict follower.
[PD: Yet BVKS is always criticizing the other GBC gurus for not following strictly? So if the other gurus are not following strictly, how are they still gurus? This is called hypocrisy, which is why Jesus says "Oh ye hypocrites, sons of vipers."]
BVKS: Having said this, Srila Prabhupada continued, giving an idea of what constitutes strict following by citing an example of the opposite: "You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to become guru, and a small temple and guru. What kind of guru? No publication, no preaching, simply bring some foodstuff... My Guru Maharaja used to say, 'Joint mess,' a place for eating and sleeping."
Notwithstanding various fantastic interpretations of this conversation, I venture to aver that the whole gist is that Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples to be gurus and that he considered it quite possible that they could meet the qualification ("little thing, strictly follower"). In this conversation we also find Srila Prabhupada expressing doubt as to the level of readiness of his disciples. Still, Srila Prabhupada concluded (his discussion of this topic in this conversation) optimisticly, yet with a warning also:
"Stick to our principle, and see our GBC is very alert. Then everything will go on, even I am not present. Do that. That is my request. Whatever little I have taught you, follow that, and nobody will be aggrieved. No maya will touch you. Now Krsna has given us, and there will be no scarcity of money. You print book and sell. So everything is there. We have got good shelter all over the world. We have got income. You stick to our principles, follow the... Even if I die suddenly, you'll be able to manage. That's all. That I want. Manage nicely and let the movement go forward. Now arrange. Don't go backward. Be careful."
We cannot conclude from this conversation that Srila Prabhupada did not want his disciples to initiate. From Srila Prabhupada's words as quoted above, ISKCON's present travails can be explained as due to the GBC's unalertness regarding strict following and sticking to our principles.
To my understanding, this is the clear, straightforward understanding of these statements, that were never meant to cryptically indicate something else.
PD: This means BVKS has a mundane idea of the acharyas. He thinks the SUCCESSORS TO KRISHNA are under the control of of committee of defective people, whom he always has to admonish himself. And it is the "votes" of these faulty and defective neophytes which creates new acharyas by a Vatican type vote system. And in sum the acharyas are under the control of the dictates of people like BVKS and his GBC "acharya managers program." This is not the system ever found in Vaishnavism from time immemorial, rather the acharyas are always getting DIRECT dictation from Krishna, and not from defective people like the GBC and BVKS. (see quotes below in the regard).
This is pretty amazing, this means BVKS is hi-jacking a post which is HIGHER than God Almighty because: Normally what happens is that -- God is always (eternally) dictating to the acharya, but BVKS defies the normal system of religion and he removes God from the equation. In short, BVKS over-rides Krishna's authority to dictate to the acharyas, because BVKS replaces Krishna's authority (dictation to the guru) with dictations from BVKS and his bogus GBC "guru managers" council, who are now the persons allegedly dictating to the acharyas. How did BVKS party take over the post of God?
This is also what Sridhara Maharaja told the GBC: "Wait and see" -- as their acharyas deviate, because it is the job of the GBC to control their acharyas with some sort of "guru sanctions." That is what the followers of Narayana Maharaja are also NOW doing, they are trying to censure and control BV Tirtha swami, one of their "acharyas." In other words, Bhakti Vikas swami is backing the GBC idea that acharyas often are (or they often become) debauchees, and then they have to be replaced.]
NOTICE! That Bhakti Vikas Swami -- and Suddhadvaiti Swami of the NARAYAN MAHARAJA program -- are now promoting THE SAME IDENTICAL idea, that a defective committee of conditioned souls is in charge of: creating, controlling, advising, correcting and even removing the acharyas!
Suddhavaiti swami: Now this incident with TM is clearly telling us we do need some kind of an executive power to run the sanga and enforce resolutions.
[PD: This is exactly what the BVKS program does, they made a bogus executive "acharya board" in 1978, which claimed it was going to monitor and control their acharyas through the GBC's "executive powers." That is not the mandate or duty of the GBC, -- to vote in, create, manage, control, censure and remove acharyas. BVKS keeps telling us that he is strictly following Srila Prabhupada, ok so where was BVKS told by Srila Prabhupada to create, manage, and remove acharyas, and take over the post of Krishna?]
SS: As per today, and it's amazing, we don't. And that's why TM is able to continue doing as he pleases, still dressed as a swami. Our sannyasi council has demanded that he doesn't travel abroad and steps down as an initiating guru for a minimum of 5 years but we cannot force him.
[PD: This is identical to what the BVKS program is doing. The GBC tells their messiahs to "step down for five years" (the GBC's censured and suspended gurus idea). In sum BVKS says (a) we have to order around the acharyas as our bucket boys, (b) because we were ordered to order around the acharyas -- by the acharya? This makes no sense at all, and is not done in Vedic culture. The acharyas are deviating into debauchery, and then a "managerial council" censures, removes, suspends these acharyas --- which were voted in as acharyas by the "managerial committee" in the first place!]
SS: Sounds insane, uh? Well it is true that in Iskcon now they are enforcing rules on fallen leaders. it was not always the case, though and the lst or one of the last , PV, had been falling for years until they rectified him, uh?
[PD: This means BVKS has fully quit ISKCON and he has joined with the Gaudiya Matha's insane relativised guru program. Yes, ask anyone on the street, can the BVKS committee "monitor and regulate" God's personal associate messiahs? They will say, this is insane. The whole idea that ISKCON or Suddhadvaiti can "enforce rules" upon the acharyas is -- insane? Notice that BVKS and Suddhadvati are saying the same IDENTICAL thing, we have to monitor and control the acharya, they think they are better than God almighty who is the actual manager of the acharyas, they are thinking God is a lousy manager, I am better than God. This is also what Kamsa was thinking.]
SS: Anyway, I don't want to enter the ring of debate and fuel another big controversy on this thread, prabhu. Now, some of the Western sannyasis are speaking about creating a kind of GBC, which is needed.
[PD: The idea that the Lord's messiahs need to be managed is "a controversy"? No, its a foolish idea from square one and they do not want to discuss it in public because, it exposes BVKS and Suddhadvaiti as fools for thinking they can manage the acharyas in the first place. Acharyam mam vijnaniyam, Krishna says the acharya is as good as my very self, He does not say the acharya is as good as the committee selects and manages?]
SS: I , for myself, have resigned from the sannyasi council because I don't like to be a powerless authority figure, nor pass as someone covering scandals up in 'a good ol' boy club', as some have insinuated. I also envision that this attempt at creating a leadership with executive power, after so many years with Srila Narayana Maharaja doing without it, is going to meet with all kinds of opposition from a 20% "anarchists", even though I guess that 80% of the devotees want a shelter and are looking up to us for that."
[PD: Oh swell, we should monitor our rubber stamped gurus but we cannot since, they are anarchists. How is this going to work then? The guru will say, I am a guru, you are the committee, I am above you. BVKS is creating anarchy, and resulting murders, molesting and mayhem. BVKS is the person creating the anarchy in ISKCON by making false gurus, which their guru rubber stamper program admits themselves, are anarchists. ys pd]
[PD: A few quotes to consider:
Must be uttama-adhikari who can never fall down
“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari .” (The Nectar of Instruction, text 5, purport)
“There is no possibility that a first-class devotee will fall down, even though he may mix with non-devotees to preach. Conviction and faith gradually increase to make one an uttama-adhikari, a first-class devotee.” (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 22.71, purport)
Must be mahabhagavata
“When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.” (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 24.330, purport)
Must be liberated soul
“It is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. [...] Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore, only Lord Krishna, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can release the conditioned soul.” (Bhagavad-gita As It Is 7.14, purport, 1972 ed.)
Does not deviate at all
“A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord [...]”
(Bhagavad-gita As It Is, 4.42, purport)
Receives direct dictation from Lord Krishna
“A spiritually advanced person who acts with authority, as the spiritual master, speaks as the Supreme Personality of Godhead dictates from within. Thus it is not he that is personally speaking. When a pure devotee or spiritual master speaks, what he says should be accepted as having been directly spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the parampara system.”
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 5.71, purport)
“You are correct when you say that when the Spiritual Master speaks it should be taken that Krishna is speaking. That is a fact. A Spiritual Master must be liberated.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, June 10th, 1969)
Prabhupada: “Yes, because a devotee always consults Krishna and He gives order.”
Interviewer: “It’s a more direct communication.”
Prabhupada: “Yes. And He gives order [...] Krishna will tell directly. A devotee always consults Krishna and Krishna tells him, “do like this.” Not figuratively [...] a devotee does not do anything without consulting Krishna.” (Interview, July 14th, 1976)
Always embraced by Krishna
“[...] Such an acarya, or spiritual master, should be considered nondifferent from Krishna—that is, he should be considered the incarnation of Lord Krishna’s potency. Such a personality is krsnalingita-vigraha—that is, he is always embraced by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna [...] He is the guru, or spiritual master, for the entire world, a devotee on the topmost platform, the maha-bhagavata stage, and a paramahamsa-thakura, a spiritual form only fit to be addressed as paramahamsa or thakura.” (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 25.9, purport)
Resident of the spiritual world
“Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance [...] So to summarize the whole thing, it is to be understood that a bona fide Spiritual Master is a resident of Krishna Loka.” (Srila Prabhupada Letter, June 10th, 1969)
Identified with God Himself
“`One should understand the Spiritual Master to be as good as I am,’ said the Blessed Lord [...] `the Spiritual Master is the sum total of all demigods.’ That is, the acarya has been identified with God Himself.” (Srila Prabhupada Lecture, February 1936)
Body is completely spiritual
“The spiritual master, or acarya, is always situated in the spiritual status of life. Birth, death, old age and disease do not affect him [...] therefore, after the disappearance of an acarya, his body is never burnt to ashes, for it is a spiritual body. The spiritual body is always unaffected by material conditions.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.4.20, purport)
Empowered to act as he likes
“The conclusion is that a spiritual master who is authorized and empowered by Krishna and his own guru should be considered as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. That is the verdict of Visvanatha Cakravarti: saksad-dharitvenasa. [...] As Hari is free to act as He likes, the empowered spiritual master is also free. As Hari is not subject to mundane rules and regulations, the spiritual master empowered by Him is also not subject.” (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 10.136, purport)
"Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that, amara ajnaya guru hana.' You become guru.' But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower."
[PD: And in that same conversation Srila Prabhupada says his followers will become guru when he orders, yet there is no evidence Srila Prabhupada "ordered" any diksha gurus? "Strictly following the order," but there is no order for the neophytes of ISKCON to take the post of guru, and imitate the acharyas thereby? Of course, the concept of "not imitating the acharya" is true in almost any religion. For example, as soon as someone in the Christian religion begins to think he is the successor to Jesus, generally, there is chaos and all kinds of cult meltdowns.
Of course recently the BVKS program is being criticized for burying a known homosexual pedophile in "a samadhi" the holy land of Vrndavana, because in the BVKS party they basically have the idea that just about any fool, clown, deviant and debauchee can become an acharya. This was never ordered by Srila Prabhupada, nor is this following strictly anything he ever said. Nor has there even been any example of known homosexual pedophiles being buried in samadhis and so on and so forth, in other words BVKS entire program is all based on NOT following strictly.
Tamal also admits in Topanga in December 1980, the idea that gurus have been appointed in ISKCON is "a myth." Hansadutta dasa and others have confirmed this, there was never any order from Srila Prabhupada for ISKCON's leaders to become gurus. So the ISKCON gurus keep saying they are strictly following the order of Srila Prabhupada, and the order is to be an ISKCON guru, except, there is no order for such neophytes to become gurus? Rather the order is, do not imitate the post of guru (which oddly BVKS quotes below).
Moreover in January of 1977 Srila Prabhupada was saying ISKCON needs to suspend sannyasa because his followers are not even fit for the renounced order, so -- why would he appoint the very same exact "unfit" people as gurus a few months later (in May of 1977)? And why doesn't BVKS know that people who are not fit for sannyasa, or barely fit, are not fit to be acharyas?
That Srila Prabhupada would have wanted, ordered or appointed conditioned souls and unqualified neophytes to the post of guru is simply saying that Srila Prabhupada makes mistakes. The entire BVKS program rests on the theory that Srila Prabhupada had wanted and ordered neophytes, or even less than neophytes, to take the post of acharyas aka "God's successor gurus." This is a direct attack on Srila Prabhupada's integrity. Then again, the Gaudiya Matha's folks said that Srila Saraswati had wanted and ordered neophytes to take the post of guru, BVKS is thus simply a disciple of these deviants.
Also in the same 1977 conversation BVKS quotes above, it says that when these GBC and ISKCON leaders deviate, they will have to be replaced. How can people who deviate and need to be replaced be -- gurus? This is another major problem with BVKS, he thinks that the "successors to Krishna" aka acharyas are (or they become) fools who deviate. And then the BVKS program has devised all kinds of concocted tools to "fix and repair" their fools posing as messiahs. For example, the BVKS program says their gurus need to be -- reformed, censured, admonished, rectified, removed and replaced (and so on) -- by the overseers of the acharyas, namely BVKS and his moderating council, ... the same "GBC" council of which BVKS is a contributor and backer?
How can a council of defective people dictate to, and in sum "fix and repair" the acharya?
And since (according to the quotes below) it is Krishna who dictates to the acharyas, how can BVKS claim to have replaced Krishna -- and BVKS is now taking over the post of dictating to the acharyas? When someone says he has overtaken Krishna's position, is that not the seed element of how we all fell into the material world in the first place? So BVKS in effect says, "I am a very humble man, therefore I have taken over the post of God Almighty, and I have kicked Him down the street and I am now doing His job, because God is quite a lousy manager of His acharyas, so I had to take over His job." Is this humility, or is this ego on steroids, or is this just plain criminal madness?
BVKS: Especially as Srila Prabhupada's statements about succession have been variously interpreted, we must be very careful to not introduce preconceptions or personal motivations when attempting to understand and explain the statements and intentions of our acarya. Yet the simple and clear understanding here, directly derived from Srila Prabhupada's own words, is that the qualification to be a guru is to be a strict follower.
[PD: Yet BVKS is always criticizing the other GBC gurus for not following strictly? So if the other gurus are not following strictly, how are they still gurus? This is called hypocrisy, which is why Jesus says "Oh ye hypocrites, sons of vipers."]
BVKS: Having said this, Srila Prabhupada continued, giving an idea of what constitutes strict following by citing an example of the opposite: "You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to become guru, and a small temple and guru. What kind of guru? No publication, no preaching, simply bring some foodstuff... My Guru Maharaja used to say, 'Joint mess,' a place for eating and sleeping."
Notwithstanding various fantastic interpretations of this conversation, I venture to aver that the whole gist is that Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples to be gurus and that he considered it quite possible that they could meet the qualification ("little thing, strictly follower"). In this conversation we also find Srila Prabhupada expressing doubt as to the level of readiness of his disciples. Still, Srila Prabhupada concluded (his discussion of this topic in this conversation) optimisticly, yet with a warning also:
"Stick to our principle, and see our GBC is very alert. Then everything will go on, even I am not present. Do that. That is my request. Whatever little I have taught you, follow that, and nobody will be aggrieved. No maya will touch you. Now Krsna has given us, and there will be no scarcity of money. You print book and sell. So everything is there. We have got good shelter all over the world. We have got income. You stick to our principles, follow the... Even if I die suddenly, you'll be able to manage. That's all. That I want. Manage nicely and let the movement go forward. Now arrange. Don't go backward. Be careful."
We cannot conclude from this conversation that Srila Prabhupada did not want his disciples to initiate. From Srila Prabhupada's words as quoted above, ISKCON's present travails can be explained as due to the GBC's unalertness regarding strict following and sticking to our principles.
To my understanding, this is the clear, straightforward understanding of these statements, that were never meant to cryptically indicate something else.
PD: This means BVKS has a mundane idea of the acharyas. He thinks the SUCCESSORS TO KRISHNA are under the control of of committee of defective people, whom he always has to admonish himself. And it is the "votes" of these faulty and defective neophytes which creates new acharyas by a Vatican type vote system. And in sum the acharyas are under the control of the dictates of people like BVKS and his GBC "acharya managers program." This is not the system ever found in Vaishnavism from time immemorial, rather the acharyas are always getting DIRECT dictation from Krishna, and not from defective people like the GBC and BVKS. (see quotes below in the regard).
This is pretty amazing, this means BVKS is hi-jacking a post which is HIGHER than God Almighty because: Normally what happens is that -- God is always (eternally) dictating to the acharya, but BVKS defies the normal system of religion and he removes God from the equation. In short, BVKS over-rides Krishna's authority to dictate to the acharyas, because BVKS replaces Krishna's authority (dictation to the guru) with dictations from BVKS and his bogus GBC "guru managers" council, who are now the persons allegedly dictating to the acharyas. How did BVKS party take over the post of God?
This is also what Sridhara Maharaja told the GBC: "Wait and see" -- as their acharyas deviate, because it is the job of the GBC to control their acharyas with some sort of "guru sanctions." That is what the followers of Narayana Maharaja are also NOW doing, they are trying to censure and control BV Tirtha swami, one of their "acharyas." In other words, Bhakti Vikas swami is backing the GBC idea that acharyas often are (or they often become) debauchees, and then they have to be replaced.]
NOTICE! That Bhakti Vikas Swami -- and Suddhadvaiti Swami of the NARAYAN MAHARAJA program -- are now promoting THE SAME IDENTICAL idea, that a defective committee of conditioned souls is in charge of: creating, controlling, advising, correcting and even removing the acharyas!
Suddhavaiti swami: Now this incident with TM is clearly telling us we do need some kind of an executive power to run the sanga and enforce resolutions.
[PD: This is exactly what the BVKS program does, they made a bogus executive "acharya board" in 1978, which claimed it was going to monitor and control their acharyas through the GBC's "executive powers." That is not the mandate or duty of the GBC, -- to vote in, create, manage, control, censure and remove acharyas. BVKS keeps telling us that he is strictly following Srila Prabhupada, ok so where was BVKS told by Srila Prabhupada to create, manage, and remove acharyas, and take over the post of Krishna?]
SS: As per today, and it's amazing, we don't. And that's why TM is able to continue doing as he pleases, still dressed as a swami. Our sannyasi council has demanded that he doesn't travel abroad and steps down as an initiating guru for a minimum of 5 years but we cannot force him.
[PD: This is identical to what the BVKS program is doing. The GBC tells their messiahs to "step down for five years" (the GBC's censured and suspended gurus idea). In sum BVKS says (a) we have to order around the acharyas as our bucket boys, (b) because we were ordered to order around the acharyas -- by the acharya? This makes no sense at all, and is not done in Vedic culture. The acharyas are deviating into debauchery, and then a "managerial council" censures, removes, suspends these acharyas --- which were voted in as acharyas by the "managerial committee" in the first place!]
SS: Sounds insane, uh? Well it is true that in Iskcon now they are enforcing rules on fallen leaders. it was not always the case, though and the lst or one of the last , PV, had been falling for years until they rectified him, uh?
[PD: This means BVKS has fully quit ISKCON and he has joined with the Gaudiya Matha's insane relativised guru program. Yes, ask anyone on the street, can the BVKS committee "monitor and regulate" God's personal associate messiahs? They will say, this is insane. The whole idea that ISKCON or Suddhadvaiti can "enforce rules" upon the acharyas is -- insane? Notice that BVKS and Suddhadvati are saying the same IDENTICAL thing, we have to monitor and control the acharya, they think they are better than God almighty who is the actual manager of the acharyas, they are thinking God is a lousy manager, I am better than God. This is also what Kamsa was thinking.]
SS: Anyway, I don't want to enter the ring of debate and fuel another big controversy on this thread, prabhu. Now, some of the Western sannyasis are speaking about creating a kind of GBC, which is needed.
[PD: The idea that the Lord's messiahs need to be managed is "a controversy"? No, its a foolish idea from square one and they do not want to discuss it in public because, it exposes BVKS and Suddhadvaiti as fools for thinking they can manage the acharyas in the first place. Acharyam mam vijnaniyam, Krishna says the acharya is as good as my very self, He does not say the acharya is as good as the committee selects and manages?]
SS: I , for myself, have resigned from the sannyasi council because I don't like to be a powerless authority figure, nor pass as someone covering scandals up in 'a good ol' boy club', as some have insinuated. I also envision that this attempt at creating a leadership with executive power, after so many years with Srila Narayana Maharaja doing without it, is going to meet with all kinds of opposition from a 20% "anarchists", even though I guess that 80% of the devotees want a shelter and are looking up to us for that."
[PD: Oh swell, we should monitor our rubber stamped gurus but we cannot since, they are anarchists. How is this going to work then? The guru will say, I am a guru, you are the committee, I am above you. BVKS is creating anarchy, and resulting murders, molesting and mayhem. BVKS is the person creating the anarchy in ISKCON by making false gurus, which their guru rubber stamper program admits themselves, are anarchists. ys pd]
[PD: A few quotes to consider:
Must be uttama-adhikari who can never fall down
“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari .” (The Nectar of Instruction, text 5, purport)
“There is no possibility that a first-class devotee will fall down, even though he may mix with non-devotees to preach. Conviction and faith gradually increase to make one an uttama-adhikari, a first-class devotee.” (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 22.71, purport)
Must be mahabhagavata
“When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.” (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 24.330, purport)
Must be liberated soul
“It is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. [...] Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore, only Lord Krishna, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can release the conditioned soul.” (Bhagavad-gita As It Is 7.14, purport, 1972 ed.)
Does not deviate at all
“A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord [...]”
(Bhagavad-gita As It Is, 4.42, purport)
Receives direct dictation from Lord Krishna
“A spiritually advanced person who acts with authority, as the spiritual master, speaks as the Supreme Personality of Godhead dictates from within. Thus it is not he that is personally speaking. When a pure devotee or spiritual master speaks, what he says should be accepted as having been directly spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the parampara system.”
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya-lila 5.71, purport)
“You are correct when you say that when the Spiritual Master speaks it should be taken that Krishna is speaking. That is a fact. A Spiritual Master must be liberated.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, June 10th, 1969)
Prabhupada: “Yes, because a devotee always consults Krishna and He gives order.”
Interviewer: “It’s a more direct communication.”
Prabhupada: “Yes. And He gives order [...] Krishna will tell directly. A devotee always consults Krishna and Krishna tells him, “do like this.” Not figuratively [...] a devotee does not do anything without consulting Krishna.” (Interview, July 14th, 1976)
Always embraced by Krishna
“[...] Such an acarya, or spiritual master, should be considered nondifferent from Krishna—that is, he should be considered the incarnation of Lord Krishna’s potency. Such a personality is krsnalingita-vigraha—that is, he is always embraced by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna [...] He is the guru, or spiritual master, for the entire world, a devotee on the topmost platform, the maha-bhagavata stage, and a paramahamsa-thakura, a spiritual form only fit to be addressed as paramahamsa or thakura.” (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 25.9, purport)
Resident of the spiritual world
“Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance [...] So to summarize the whole thing, it is to be understood that a bona fide Spiritual Master is a resident of Krishna Loka.” (Srila Prabhupada Letter, June 10th, 1969)
Identified with God Himself
“`One should understand the Spiritual Master to be as good as I am,’ said the Blessed Lord [...] `the Spiritual Master is the sum total of all demigods.’ That is, the acarya has been identified with God Himself.” (Srila Prabhupada Lecture, February 1936)
Body is completely spiritual
“The spiritual master, or acarya, is always situated in the spiritual status of life. Birth, death, old age and disease do not affect him [...] therefore, after the disappearance of an acarya, his body is never burnt to ashes, for it is a spiritual body. The spiritual body is always unaffected by material conditions.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.4.20, purport)
Empowered to act as he likes
“The conclusion is that a spiritual master who is authorized and empowered by Krishna and his own guru should be considered as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. That is the verdict of Visvanatha Cakravarti: saksad-dharitvenasa. [...] As Hari is free to act as He likes, the empowered spiritual master is also free. As Hari is not subject to mundane rules and regulations, the spiritual master empowered by Him is also not subject.” (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 10.136, purport)
Thursday, January 24, 2013
Jadurani's "guru" "groping women's breasts, buttocks, genitals"?
[PADA: Suddadvaiti swami was (we are told) formerly Jayantakrt dasa, an ISKCON member. I remember writing him some years ago when he was interested in perhaps joining GAURA GOVINDA MAHARAJA's camp with our Prabhupadanuga idea. He originally favored our idea to a large extent, then he suddenly broke off and joined the Gaudiya Matha camp of Narayana Maharaja / Jadurani DD.]
[PADA: Tritha Maharaja is recognized as the current acharya successor to Krishna and Narayana Maharaja in the Jadurani dd preaching program, which begs the question, what kind of gurus is the Jadurani program promoting here? Jadurani said she left ISKCON because they are promoting bogus gurus (which they were doing all through the late 1980s and early 1990s under the "guidance" of Narayana Maharaja).
Now she joined the NM program that is apparently doing the same exact thing as the GBC gurus, promoting false gurus? What is her public explanation of all this? Why does she continue to promote the NM program, knowing it is promoting deviants as the Lord's guru successors (which is an insult to the real successors).
And since Suddhadvaita says there is no Governing Body to control these renegade messiahs, is this not exactly what has happened in ISKCON, the GBC has no powers over their bogus messiahs? When is Jadurani going to explain all this, of course she has never explained why NM supported the bogus GBC guru program and why NM was their "rasika advisor"?
Or do the people in the NM camp not know that promoting women abusers as messiahs is not bona fide? Or what is the real problem here? Can someone explain? ys pd]
========================
ABOUT BV SUDDHAVAIT MAHARAJA:
Sripad BV Suddhadvaiti Maharaja
Email: guydebelle@ymail.com
Biography
Maharaja was born as Guy Bouchié de Belle in 1953 in an ancient French, aristocratic family, with the title of Baron. From a young age he wanted to become a catholic priest, but starting the practice of yoga at 14 made him turn eastwards for his spiritual development. He studied and practiced Buddhism, then kriya-yoga in India, before taking up the path of bhakti in 1973. He received diksa initiation in 1974 under the name Jayantakrid das from Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, of whom he is one of the most senior French disciples.
He studied closely for 10 years under his beloved siksa-guru, Srila Gour Govinda Swami, the foremost disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Since Srila Gour Govinda Swami’s departure from this world in 1996, he has taken siksa from Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja, who nicknamed him Jayanta-Krishna.In March 2008 after thirty five years of practice and study on the path of bhakti, he received from Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja the renounced order of sannyasa and the name Bhaktivedanta Suddhadvaiti Swami.
Maharaja’s vast knowledge and long experience in teaching allows him to present the most esoteric subjects of the ancient wisdom of India in a way both captivating and easily understandable by his audience. His humor, friendly, empathic nature and deep knowledge of human psychology help make his presentation easy to catch. In his past ashram, Maharaja was head of a large family and can relate to the various challenges of practicing bhakti-yoga in family life in this modern era. Practiced in communication skills and EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique), he is always available for individual counseling, workshops and seminars.
He is presently finishing his PhD thesis in philosophy.================================================
NA GBC leaders meeting
http://gbc.iskcon.org/2013/01/14/north-american-leaders-annual-meeting-day-1/
Discussion on Srila Prabhupada's unique position?
===============================
Discussion on Srila Prabhupada's unique position?
===============================
Wednesday, January 23, 2013
Bhakti Vikas mj admits he violates the shastras
Justice, Chicken Coups, and Bitterness
BY: HH BHAKTI VIKASA SWAMI
Jan 19, 2013 — INDIA
[PADA: First of all, Bhakti Vikas Swami (BVKS) and his ilk are saying that since we Prabhupadanugas are worshiping "the departed guru" -- Srila Prabhupada -- we are bogus. Of course, in the BVKS program, they worship the dead body of their DEPARTED PEDOPHILE messiah named Kirtanananda swami, whom they buried in a "samadhi" in the Hare Krishna's holy land of Vrndavana. And the BVKS guru program STILL has that odious worship program going on in the HOLY LAND of Vrndavana today!
[ http://prabhupadavision.com/2011/11/fiskcon-attends/ ]
So, we and others cannot worship a "departed" pure devotee like Srila Prabhupada or Jesus, that is bogus. What is bona fide for the BVKS clan then? Right, their system, which worships departed pedophiles as the bona fide "samadhi level" successors to GOD almighty in Krishna's holy land.
And of course if anyone thinks worship of departed pedophiles is bogus, then BVKS calls them "ritvik tripe." OK, and that is how BVKS folks get us banned, beaten and killed, by calling us ill names like this. And our crime is, we do not want to worship their departed pedophile messiah's pooja program in the holy land, and we prefer to worship a real devotee of God like Srila Prabhupada.
In short BVKS' program is making worship of departed pedophiles the only moral, legal and justified program, whereas worship of pure devotees is immoral, illegal and unjustified -- in the BVKS program's scheme of things. Notice that BVKS sannyasa guru Jayapataka swami is recently glorifying Radhanatha swami, the "founder father" of the dead pedophile's pooja program (and that means the BVKS program defends the worship of dead pedophiles process).
Then again, one has to wonder what kind of trance samadhi a pedophile is having, either alive or dead? And why would the BVKS program want small children all over the world to worship a departed pedophile in the holy dham, and not have people worship a pure devotee instead? And is it not BVKS who is doing something highly immoral by forcing children to worship dead pedophiles as their "departed messiahs" all over (hi-jacked) ISKCON? And hasn't the BVKS program of worship of pedophiles and deviants already produced a huge program of rampant child abuse in ISKCON?
Also notice that HH Bhakti Vikas Swami (BVKS) often complains bitterly that the other GBC gurus are all nonsense because they are mainly preaching in India, and making "Hindus" into their followers. And therefore ISKCON is being gradually "Hindu-ized." At the same time, BVKS is almost always in India himself preaching to -- the "Hindus." And almost all of his followers are -- former Hindus. In other words, he is doing the same exact thing that the other GBC gurus are doing, i.e. concentrating almost all of his preaching efforts on converting Hindus in India.
At the same time a leader of the BVKS guru program, an ISKCON leader here in the USA, was arrested for importing HINDU people into the USA to exploit them. He was sentenced to jail for visa fraud. So the exploiting of Hindus / Hindu-ization is going on globally by the bogus GBC gurus, not only in India but here in the West as well.
SRILA PRABHUPADA: I don't want a Hindu temple. Our constitution is different. We want everyone. Krsna consciousness is for everyone. It is not a Hindu propaganda. People may not misunderstand. And actually, till now in our society there is not a single other Hindu than me. Srila Prabhupada in Moscow, June 22, 1971: Conversation with Professor Kotovsky
BVKS also complains there is hardly any varnasrama (communities of farms and so on), but he is not creating any realistic alternate programs? How is BVKS trying to re-start the varnasrama farms programs in the West, for example programs like Gita Nagari (which Srila Prabhupada wanted for Gita Nagari). Most people see very little difference between BVKS's "Hindu-ized" program and that of the other GBC gurus? In other words, his criticisms of the other GBC gurus seems to be mainly show-bottle and lacking substance: "I am not with them, but I am doing exactly as they are doing"? In short, "Do what I say, and not what I do."]
[ http://prabhupadavision.com/2011/11/fiskcon-attends/ ]
So, we and others cannot worship a "departed" pure devotee like Srila Prabhupada or Jesus, that is bogus. What is bona fide for the BVKS clan then? Right, their system, which worships departed pedophiles as the bona fide "samadhi level" successors to GOD almighty in Krishna's holy land.
And of course if anyone thinks worship of departed pedophiles is bogus, then BVKS calls them "ritvik tripe." OK, and that is how BVKS folks get us banned, beaten and killed, by calling us ill names like this. And our crime is, we do not want to worship their departed pedophile messiah's pooja program in the holy land, and we prefer to worship a real devotee of God like Srila Prabhupada.
In short BVKS' program is making worship of departed pedophiles the only moral, legal and justified program, whereas worship of pure devotees is immoral, illegal and unjustified -- in the BVKS program's scheme of things. Notice that BVKS sannyasa guru Jayapataka swami is recently glorifying Radhanatha swami, the "founder father" of the dead pedophile's pooja program (and that means the BVKS program defends the worship of dead pedophiles process).
Then again, one has to wonder what kind of trance samadhi a pedophile is having, either alive or dead? And why would the BVKS program want small children all over the world to worship a departed pedophile in the holy dham, and not have people worship a pure devotee instead? And is it not BVKS who is doing something highly immoral by forcing children to worship dead pedophiles as their "departed messiahs" all over (hi-jacked) ISKCON? And hasn't the BVKS program of worship of pedophiles and deviants already produced a huge program of rampant child abuse in ISKCON?
Also notice that HH Bhakti Vikas Swami (BVKS) often complains bitterly that the other GBC gurus are all nonsense because they are mainly preaching in India, and making "Hindus" into their followers. And therefore ISKCON is being gradually "Hindu-ized." At the same time, BVKS is almost always in India himself preaching to -- the "Hindus." And almost all of his followers are -- former Hindus. In other words, he is doing the same exact thing that the other GBC gurus are doing, i.e. concentrating almost all of his preaching efforts on converting Hindus in India.
At the same time a leader of the BVKS guru program, an ISKCON leader here in the USA, was arrested for importing HINDU people into the USA to exploit them. He was sentenced to jail for visa fraud. So the exploiting of Hindus / Hindu-ization is going on globally by the bogus GBC gurus, not only in India but here in the West as well.
SRILA PRABHUPADA: I don't want a Hindu temple. Our constitution is different. We want everyone. Krsna consciousness is for everyone. It is not a Hindu propaganda. People may not misunderstand. And actually, till now in our society there is not a single other Hindu than me. Srila Prabhupada in Moscow, June 22, 1971: Conversation with Professor Kotovsky
BVKS also complains there is hardly any varnasrama (communities of farms and so on), but he is not creating any realistic alternate programs? How is BVKS trying to re-start the varnasrama farms programs in the West, for example programs like Gita Nagari (which Srila Prabhupada wanted for Gita Nagari). Most people see very little difference between BVKS's "Hindu-ized" program and that of the other GBC gurus? In other words, his criticisms of the other GBC gurus seems to be mainly show-bottle and lacking substance: "I am not with them, but I am doing exactly as they are doing"? In short, "Do what I say, and not what I do."]
BVKS: In response to Gadadhar dasa: I sympathize with many of your concerns and I am not an apologist for everything that ISKCON does, but the way you have phrased your "queries" is in the manner of "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
[PADA: Yet BVKS does support the GBC's guru program and its main (bogus) pillar "siddhantas." And BVKS is a card carrying member of their program. And BVKS is voted in as one of their co-"guru" members. BVKS is therefore -- responsible for what their program is doing, because the GBC's guru program is also his program. And he is one of the GBC guru program's leading and prime participants in that program. If one is a leading member of the MAFIA, then one has to answer for all of the activities of that organization. That is also how karma is decided, people who support a bogus operation are held accountable for the actions of the entire operation.]
BVKS: Obviously sastra does not state what the GBC should do, so it is silly to ask "Where does Sastra say that a group of GBCs can rubber-stamp Gurus?"
BVKS: Obviously sastra does not state what the GBC should do, so it is silly to ask "Where does Sastra say that a group of GBCs can rubber-stamp Gurus?"
[PADA: This is getting very interesting, BVKS is now finally admitting openly -- the Vedic shastra does not guide him nor the other GBC gurus? Who or what does guide them, perhaps Satan? BVKS is saying the GBC are exempt from following shastra? Indeed it is silly of us to expect that either BVKS or the GBC will follow shastra? The atheists are also saying they are exempt from following shastra too? Why is BVKS telling us, his guru party has no obligation to shastra, and it is even silly for us to expect the BVKS program would be committed to, and even remotely connected to, shastra?
For example: The GBC has voted in gurus like BVKS and many others. Why can't BVKS answer the simple question here, if the BVKS "guru voting system" (2/3 show of hands by the GBC members) is authorized by shastra, where is his "guru voting" process found in the shastra? OK, BVKS is now admitting, his entire program is not even found in the shastra. BVKS and the GBC borrowed their idea of "voting for the Pope" from the Vatican, then they borrowed their idea that acharyas are often debauchees from Sridhara Maharaja and the Gaudiya Matha, and so on and so forth, in sum -- none of their main ideas has any basis in shastra -- as BVKS admits to herein.
Notice that BVKS' admission (that his program is not following shastra) is confirmed on BVKS' ONEISKCON web site which says the same thing "gurus are not voted in," and their own web site says their own guru process is not found in any shastra. However, Srila Prabhupada says people who do not follow the shastra are pasandis and atheists. Yet the BVKS program is far worse than "not following shastra" because they are modifying the shastra, and conducting all sorts of ad hoc: additions, subtractions, concocting, plagarizing bogus sources, and so on, and then enforcing that we have to follow these bogus ideas by their other contrived process, namely banning, beating and assassinations of us "dissenters."
So BVKS and his program admits themselves, they are making up their own shastra with their own concocted ideas, such as guru voting, and they admit this openly -- their bogus ideas are not even found in ANY shastra. Is this not the number one thing Srila Prabhupada warned us about, do not concoct things?
The guidelines for the actions of the GBC are not found in shastra, amazing, that is a full admission from BVKS that he is not following the shastra!
Of course BVKS also cannot answer: Which previous acharyas were "2/3 show of hands voted in" by a managerial committee? Which previous acharyas were engaged in illicit behaviors? Which of the acharyas fell into taking drugs? Which of the acharyas had their heads chopped off for having illicit sex with the wives of their disciples? Which of the acharyas was arrested with a machine gun? Which of the acharyas was taking percodans and sleeping 23 hours a day? Which of the acharyas was a homosexual pedophile?, and so on and so forth ad infinitum.
We will never get any answer from shastra, because as BVKS now admits, the reason he does not have to explain any of this from shastra is, it is silly for us to even expect that he has to cite any shastra to explain his activities -- or the activities his program participates in. He is above shastra, he does not need any shastra, and it is silly for us to even expect he will need or even cite any shastra. OK, there is no shastra to back up all these deviations being found in the parampara, it is all BVKS' and his party's concoction, and none of this has any basis in shastra, and BVKS finally admits that.
The BVKS guru project and its / acharyas / messiahs are deviating into all kinds of bogus unwanted behaviors (anarthas), but where in shastra do we find that the people who are mostly full of highly sinful anarthas, are ... worshiped as the gurus and messiahs of the Vedas? Rather the Vedas say: Those who have multiple anarthas -- like the main body of BVKS messiahs -- are at best -- neophyte kanisthas. And if these anartha - filled neophytes pose as gurus, and juxtapose their anartahas with the acharyas, then they are the most obnoxious persons in the universe and destined for hell. Ooops, and so are their supporters, ok that would be BVKS and his ilk.
For example: The GBC has voted in gurus like BVKS and many others. Why can't BVKS answer the simple question here, if the BVKS "guru voting system" (2/3 show of hands by the GBC members) is authorized by shastra, where is his "guru voting" process found in the shastra? OK, BVKS is now admitting, his entire program is not even found in the shastra. BVKS and the GBC borrowed their idea of "voting for the Pope" from the Vatican, then they borrowed their idea that acharyas are often debauchees from Sridhara Maharaja and the Gaudiya Matha, and so on and so forth, in sum -- none of their main ideas has any basis in shastra -- as BVKS admits to herein.
Notice that BVKS' admission (that his program is not following shastra) is confirmed on BVKS' ONEISKCON web site which says the same thing "gurus are not voted in," and their own web site says their own guru process is not found in any shastra. However, Srila Prabhupada says people who do not follow the shastra are pasandis and atheists. Yet the BVKS program is far worse than "not following shastra" because they are modifying the shastra, and conducting all sorts of ad hoc: additions, subtractions, concocting, plagarizing bogus sources, and so on, and then enforcing that we have to follow these bogus ideas by their other contrived process, namely banning, beating and assassinations of us "dissenters."
So BVKS and his program admits themselves, they are making up their own shastra with their own concocted ideas, such as guru voting, and they admit this openly -- their bogus ideas are not even found in ANY shastra. Is this not the number one thing Srila Prabhupada warned us about, do not concoct things?
The guidelines for the actions of the GBC are not found in shastra, amazing, that is a full admission from BVKS that he is not following the shastra!
Of course BVKS also cannot answer: Which previous acharyas were "2/3 show of hands voted in" by a managerial committee? Which previous acharyas were engaged in illicit behaviors? Which of the acharyas fell into taking drugs? Which of the acharyas had their heads chopped off for having illicit sex with the wives of their disciples? Which of the acharyas was arrested with a machine gun? Which of the acharyas was taking percodans and sleeping 23 hours a day? Which of the acharyas was a homosexual pedophile?, and so on and so forth ad infinitum.
We will never get any answer from shastra, because as BVKS now admits, the reason he does not have to explain any of this from shastra is, it is silly for us to even expect that he has to cite any shastra to explain his activities -- or the activities his program participates in. He is above shastra, he does not need any shastra, and it is silly for us to even expect he will need or even cite any shastra. OK, there is no shastra to back up all these deviations being found in the parampara, it is all BVKS' and his party's concoction, and none of this has any basis in shastra, and BVKS finally admits that.
The BVKS guru project and its / acharyas / messiahs are deviating into all kinds of bogus unwanted behaviors (anarthas), but where in shastra do we find that the people who are mostly full of highly sinful anarthas, are ... worshiped as the gurus and messiahs of the Vedas? Rather the Vedas say: Those who have multiple anarthas -- like the main body of BVKS messiahs -- are at best -- neophyte kanisthas. And if these anartha - filled neophytes pose as gurus, and juxtapose their anartahas with the acharyas, then they are the most obnoxious persons in the universe and destined for hell. Ooops, and so are their supporters, ok that would be BVKS and his ilk.
Is this why BVKS' main spokesman Jayadvaita Swami says many of the members of the BVKS' messiahs program have fallen, and many of them have engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children, and other deviations, because they no longer have any need to heed even common morality, what to speak of heeding any shastra? Sorry, shastra says that the BVKS program's main idea: that the acharyas are severe deviants, that God's successor messiahs are constantly falling into illicit behavior, ... this is ALL a great offense to God, the acharyas, and to shastra. To say that GOD's perfectional gurus are often debauchees, ooop, I forgot, you folks do not care for any shastra, so you can attack God, guru, sadhu, shastra and the post of the acharyas -- the writers of the shastra?]
BVKS: In fact, sastra gives little or no guidelines for organization of religious groups.
[PADA: OK, so BVKS is giving himself a license to concoct whatever he wants to do without any basis in shastra. Thus, the BVKS child molester messiahs program is bona fide, because shastra does not tell us that process is forbidden? What shastra is BVKS reading? Shastra says: worship of deviants will take one to hell, that is found all over the Vedic shastras, indeed any scripture in the world will agree with this.]
BVKS: Nevertheless, all sampradayas and organizations that profess Vedic culture have procedures for choosing or appointing who will represent them as gurus.
[PADA: Right, BVKS admits herein that in his system they almost usually "choose and appoint" as their messiahs, ... persons inclined towards illicit sex with men, women and children and other deviations. That is whom he and his group hand select as their messiahs. So that means their worship of illicit sex with men, women and children as their messiahs' program, in ISKCON, is not an accident, that is what the BVKS party desires, wants, selects, chooses, and enforces, as BVKS admits herein.
Good admission, so the worship of illicit behavior is what -- the BVKS program has hand selected as their choice for the policy of ISKCON. It is his choice to support that regime, which says we all have to worship illicit sex or face being banned, beaten or killed. This did not happen by accident or chance, it is BVKS desire, his decision, his choice, his policy, he wanted that, he has hand selected this policy for ISKCON. Since he hand selected that program, and this is his choice of policy for ISKCON society, he is responsible for all the molesting, murder and mayhem that has resulted, because as he admits, he chooses and selects this policy.
In short, BVKS still wants your children to worship his child buggery messiahs program, and its odious messiahs whom are being "selected and chosen" to be buried in the holy dham. The BVKS guru program has mass molested children, because that is the policy that his party has "appointed and chosen." Good, that means he is finally admitting he has chosen that process, and not us, and not Srila Prabhupada, and not Krishna, its his deviation, he owns it.
Which Vedic procedures state that the messiahs are illicit sex with men, women and children, and anyone who disagrees that this is the standard of the messiahs, has to be kicked out?]
Good admission, so the worship of illicit behavior is what -- the BVKS program has hand selected as their choice for the policy of ISKCON. It is his choice to support that regime, which says we all have to worship illicit sex or face being banned, beaten or killed. This did not happen by accident or chance, it is BVKS desire, his decision, his choice, his policy, he wanted that, he has hand selected this policy for ISKCON. Since he hand selected that program, and this is his choice of policy for ISKCON society, he is responsible for all the molesting, murder and mayhem that has resulted, because as he admits, he chooses and selects this policy.
In short, BVKS still wants your children to worship his child buggery messiahs program, and its odious messiahs whom are being "selected and chosen" to be buried in the holy dham. The BVKS guru program has mass molested children, because that is the policy that his party has "appointed and chosen." Good, that means he is finally admitting he has chosen that process, and not us, and not Srila Prabhupada, and not Krishna, its his deviation, he owns it.
Which Vedic procedures state that the messiahs are illicit sex with men, women and children, and anyone who disagrees that this is the standard of the messiahs, has to be kicked out?]
BVKS: It is not that just anyone can claim to be a guru and be recognized as such in an established tradition. So in having a system, ISKCON is not unique or deviant from sastric tradition.
[PADA: Right, worship of departed pedophiles is "the established tradition." OK, at least according to BVKS program.]
BVKS: You have amply pointed out some of the severe problems with gurus and guruship in ISKCON. What is your formula for continuing the parampara?
[PADA: Now BVKS says that the messiahs from heaven have "severe problems"? What kind of problems? OK, illicit sex, gambling, meat eating, watching porno movies, this is what the messiahs from heaven are up to --- in the BVKS "tradition." Srila Prabhupada says it is the mad elephant aparadha to consider the guru ordinary, but the BVKS gurus are not even ordinary, they are criminals and perverts, way worse than the ordinary pious and humble man on the street.]
BVKS: Your concern with justice is laudable. Considering that ISKCON is (according to you) riddled with abuse, torture, molestation, and murder, you should inform civil authorities. Otherwise you will be guilty of abetment. You should be able to get evidence of at least one instance of these numerous crimes.
[PADA: Correct, while most of the ISKCON devotees are being banned, and some beaten and killed, and the ISKCON children are being mass molested, BVKS is "chosing and appointing" the orchestrators of all these crimes to be his messiahs, that makes him the "aid and abet assistant" to all these crimes.]
BVKS: Your calling on me to "correct the situation" is childishly simplistic, as if correction could be done just by wishing it. You might consider that you are not the only one who knows that ISKCON has problems, and that various devotees are doing what they can to serve and reform Srila Prabhupada's mission. If you or anyone else has a practical plan for quickly rectifying the situation, let's hear it.
[PADA: Well to start with, your party's idea that worship of a departed pure devotee is bogus, but the worship of a departed pedophile is bona fide, should be stopped, thats the bare minimum you folks need to have stopped if you want a shred of credibility. If you cannot be bothered to fix that, then never mind our other suggestions, it would be a waste of time if you cannot fix these odious out croppings.]
But don't bring in that Ritvik tripe. Apart from their appalling ideology (which DOR has thoroughly dismantled), the Ritvikites' inability to work together, their splintering into multiple groups, demonstrates that they have no solution to ISKCON's troubles.
[PADA: It does not matter if the ritviks are all gambling in Reno, the parampara is eternally uncontaminated, that is the eternal principle, it does not matter if this earth explodes into dust today, that principle will continue forever. Our appalling ideology is, we do not worship departed pedophiles and we want to worship pure devotees instead, yes how appalling is that. And now you are raising small children into the process of worship of dead pedophiles? What is that all about? It means you are the killers of the soul mentioned in the Isopanisad.]
BVKS: Your mention of chicken coups is alarming. Do you plan an insurgency of militant chickens? Thank you for wishing me well. You might think that you are well, but your writing is laced with bitterness. Bitterness is not a Vaisnava quality. None of the numerous sastric accounts of devotees being mistreated describes them as becoming bitter. For instance, although the Pandavas had all reason to become bitter with Dhrtarastra, they didn't. Similarly, although he strongly criticized his godbrothers, Srila Prabhupada was never overcome by lamentation (socati iti sudra), nor did he let the misdeeds of others obstruct his service. Bitterness clouds the vision, saps the vitality, and means the end of bhakti.
You may take this letter as a generic response to any future points that you might address to me. I may not reply to any more.
[PADA: We do not really need your further reply, you are a defender of the worship of dead pedophiles messiahs program, which hates the worship of pure devotees, you choose that, you select that, you want that, and you want to contaminate children of the world by forcing them to bow down to your dead pedophiles pooja process, we got it already. ys pd]
[PADA: Right, worship of departed pedophiles is "the established tradition." OK, at least according to BVKS program.]
BVKS: You have amply pointed out some of the severe problems with gurus and guruship in ISKCON. What is your formula for continuing the parampara?
[PADA: Now BVKS says that the messiahs from heaven have "severe problems"? What kind of problems? OK, illicit sex, gambling, meat eating, watching porno movies, this is what the messiahs from heaven are up to --- in the BVKS "tradition." Srila Prabhupada says it is the mad elephant aparadha to consider the guru ordinary, but the BVKS gurus are not even ordinary, they are criminals and perverts, way worse than the ordinary pious and humble man on the street.]
BVKS: Your concern with justice is laudable. Considering that ISKCON is (according to you) riddled with abuse, torture, molestation, and murder, you should inform civil authorities. Otherwise you will be guilty of abetment. You should be able to get evidence of at least one instance of these numerous crimes.
[PADA: Correct, while most of the ISKCON devotees are being banned, and some beaten and killed, and the ISKCON children are being mass molested, BVKS is "chosing and appointing" the orchestrators of all these crimes to be his messiahs, that makes him the "aid and abet assistant" to all these crimes.]
BVKS: Your calling on me to "correct the situation" is childishly simplistic, as if correction could be done just by wishing it. You might consider that you are not the only one who knows that ISKCON has problems, and that various devotees are doing what they can to serve and reform Srila Prabhupada's mission. If you or anyone else has a practical plan for quickly rectifying the situation, let's hear it.
[PADA: Well to start with, your party's idea that worship of a departed pure devotee is bogus, but the worship of a departed pedophile is bona fide, should be stopped, thats the bare minimum you folks need to have stopped if you want a shred of credibility. If you cannot be bothered to fix that, then never mind our other suggestions, it would be a waste of time if you cannot fix these odious out croppings.]
But don't bring in that Ritvik tripe. Apart from their appalling ideology (which DOR has thoroughly dismantled), the Ritvikites' inability to work together, their splintering into multiple groups, demonstrates that they have no solution to ISKCON's troubles.
[PADA: It does not matter if the ritviks are all gambling in Reno, the parampara is eternally uncontaminated, that is the eternal principle, it does not matter if this earth explodes into dust today, that principle will continue forever. Our appalling ideology is, we do not worship departed pedophiles and we want to worship pure devotees instead, yes how appalling is that. And now you are raising small children into the process of worship of dead pedophiles? What is that all about? It means you are the killers of the soul mentioned in the Isopanisad.]
BVKS: Your mention of chicken coups is alarming. Do you plan an insurgency of militant chickens? Thank you for wishing me well. You might think that you are well, but your writing is laced with bitterness. Bitterness is not a Vaisnava quality. None of the numerous sastric accounts of devotees being mistreated describes them as becoming bitter. For instance, although the Pandavas had all reason to become bitter with Dhrtarastra, they didn't. Similarly, although he strongly criticized his godbrothers, Srila Prabhupada was never overcome by lamentation (socati iti sudra), nor did he let the misdeeds of others obstruct his service. Bitterness clouds the vision, saps the vitality, and means the end of bhakti.
You may take this letter as a generic response to any future points that you might address to me. I may not reply to any more.
[PADA: We do not really need your further reply, you are a defender of the worship of dead pedophiles messiahs program, which hates the worship of pure devotees, you choose that, you select that, you want that, and you want to contaminate children of the world by forcing them to bow down to your dead pedophiles pooja process, we got it already. ys pd]
ISKCON troubles are not ours (by Hasti Gopal das)
ISKCON's Troubles Are Not The Troubles Of The Prabhupadanugas (by Hasti Gopala dasa)
It's very easy to run a society that has vast fortunes pilfered over the years from the founding acharya Srila Prabhupada and his disciples while driving them out with sticks and threats. With a large cadre of bogus gurus established as Diksa gurus and the foundation of lies and deception, managing the perception of peace and co-operation is relatively easy.
It's very easy to run a society that has vast fortunes pilfered over the years from the founding acharya Srila Prabhupada and his disciples while driving them out with sticks and threats. With a large cadre of bogus gurus established as Diksa gurus and the foundation of lies and deception, managing the perception of peace and co-operation is relatively easy.
Look at communist China for example. They appear to be very together with their vast wealth and political power as well as a powerful military machine yet suffer hundreds of small rebellions a month and manage slave labor camps. No empire in Kali Yuga manages to stay in power for more than 2 to 3 hundred years save and except the Roman Empire. The present ISKCON will also fade or suddenly drop from sight.
With no wealth what to speak of, a scattered and destroyed population of devotees thanks to the criminal minds in ISKCON, have had their original books banned from the world and suffered from other sordid historical crimes by ISKCON. Of course they appear to be peaceful and well organized while we Prabhupadanugas struggle for some semblance of peace and co-operation.
Just like the other day someone said that I was envious of a particular swami. I said, "You're God d**** right I am!" If I had his bank account, time and staff I could feed 10,000 people a year prasadam here in Toronto as well as provide three Gita classes a week with books and paraphernalia for new Bhaktas at %75 of the cost. The only reason the Prabhupadanugas seem to be in dis-aray, which I do not agree with, is because we are free to speak, free to question, free to debate, free to freely critique and are free to associate with those we like to.
ISKCON, members cannot do any of the above because they live in a closed society. ISKCON temples are not independent and cannot even on a personal level make any decision on anything unless they contact their GBC, lots of peace with that process. There are thousands of REAL ISKCON devotees everywhere. ISKCON does not decide who is who, who is right, who is wrong, who can be banned, who can be worshiped, who gets money or who gets anything, in their case Maya does. ISKCON's expert psyop all these years has been to convince everyone that "they" are authorities, ( they have no authority ) and that Srila Prabhupada is dead and gone, therefore no disciple of Srila Prabhupada's has any longer an on going relationship with him, that is the illusion. The rest bought into it and we did not because we are more intelligent than they are. Srila Prabhupada is the authority not the bogus ISKCON.
HH BhaktiVikas Swami admits here that ISKCON is not the peaceful society that they portend to be, “the Ritvikites' inability to work together, their splintering into multiple groups, demonstrates that they have no solution to ISKCON's troubles.”
It is again a designed general sweeping statement that the Prabhupadanugas do not have the ability to work together which is not true, most of us are. ISKCON does not approve of independence as Prabhupada did so we are labeled as "splinter groups", again a clever misleading use of words. Ask yourself why what we do as the most dedicated followers of Srila Prabhupada on the planet would have any interest in solutions for ISKCON's troubles? If ISKCON has troubles then why would we be interested in solving them, we apparently,according to him, we have enough troubles of our own. That it has been declared by this boob that we have "no solution" is an outright lie. Let him get off his duff, take his donated money and go to every ISKCON temple on the planet and invite every local Prabhupadanugas to that ISKCON temple and have a 7 days free and open bitching session.
HH BhaktiVikas Swami admits here that ISKCON is not the peaceful society that they portend to be, “the Ritvikites' inability to work together, their splintering into multiple groups, demonstrates that they have no solution to ISKCON's troubles.”
It is again a designed general sweeping statement that the Prabhupadanugas do not have the ability to work together which is not true, most of us are. ISKCON does not approve of independence as Prabhupada did so we are labeled as "splinter groups", again a clever misleading use of words. Ask yourself why what we do as the most dedicated followers of Srila Prabhupada on the planet would have any interest in solutions for ISKCON's troubles? If ISKCON has troubles then why would we be interested in solving them, we apparently,according to him, we have enough troubles of our own. That it has been declared by this boob that we have "no solution" is an outright lie. Let him get off his duff, take his donated money and go to every ISKCON temple on the planet and invite every local Prabhupadanugas to that ISKCON temple and have a 7 days free and open bitching session.
He can't because THE GBC GURUS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE NO SOLUTIONS! You know why? Because they have disconnected themselves for 37 years from the leadership of Srila Prabhupada, we have not. We may rock the boat but we are all on the same boat.
IF EVERYONE IS THINKING THE SAME THEN NO ONE IS THINKING
IF EVERYONE IS THINKING THE SAME THEN NO ONE IS THINKING
General George S. Patton Jr.
No one should ever again compare Prabhupadanugas with ISKCON, there is no comparison, that can be admitted, in our favour, it is simply a futile exercise designed by ISKCON and it's sympathizers to try and weaken the resolve of those who are the only ones really helping the world and who are still really in contact with Srila Prabhupada on a daily basis. Use of that energy can be better spent following Srila Prabhupada's teachings and instructions. We have a new Gita Guide coming out, a new Bhakta Handbook, and are preparing to have a special series of Prabhupada lectures digitized. We have three people a month here at home, so we are doing at least something, and we are ISKCON.
If Someone Tells You Or Treats You Like You Are Not In ISKCON, Tell Them That Prabhupada Said That "ISKCON IS Where You Are Chanting Hare Krishna"
Mother Yamuna says: "After settling in Oregon with my Godsister Dinatarine, Srila Prabhupada, while pronouncing us 'independent' to a concerned God brother, at the same time twice rebuked us when we approached him to leave. 'You westerners are so restless,' he admonished. 'Why can't you remain in the same place? Stay where you are.' We questioned, 'But Srila Prabhupada, they are saying that if we aren't in ISKCON, we lose your blessings and cannot make advancement.' Prabhupada replied, 'ISKCON is where you are chanting the holy name - that is ISKCON.' We rejoined: 'They are saying we don't have any association here and are therefore in maya.' He replied: 'Association can be two or two hundred. If you are two and compatible, you can become perfect in Krsna consciousness. If you are 200 and are not, then no one will make advancement.'"
Srila Prabhupada is our leader, the holy name is our main weapon
And the original Bhagavad Gita As It Is, is our war plan. And for the support of Srila Prabhupada, with a firm reliance on the protection of Krsna, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honour.
The Oath of Honor for The First Hanuman Rangers.
Ys Hasti Gopala Dasa
No one should ever again compare Prabhupadanugas with ISKCON, there is no comparison, that can be admitted, in our favour, it is simply a futile exercise designed by ISKCON and it's sympathizers to try and weaken the resolve of those who are the only ones really helping the world and who are still really in contact with Srila Prabhupada on a daily basis. Use of that energy can be better spent following Srila Prabhupada's teachings and instructions. We have a new Gita Guide coming out, a new Bhakta Handbook, and are preparing to have a special series of Prabhupada lectures digitized. We have three people a month here at home, so we are doing at least something, and we are ISKCON.
If Someone Tells You Or Treats You Like You Are Not In ISKCON, Tell Them That Prabhupada Said That "ISKCON IS Where You Are Chanting Hare Krishna"
Mother Yamuna says: "After settling in Oregon with my Godsister Dinatarine, Srila Prabhupada, while pronouncing us 'independent' to a concerned God brother, at the same time twice rebuked us when we approached him to leave. 'You westerners are so restless,' he admonished. 'Why can't you remain in the same place? Stay where you are.' We questioned, 'But Srila Prabhupada, they are saying that if we aren't in ISKCON, we lose your blessings and cannot make advancement.' Prabhupada replied, 'ISKCON is where you are chanting the holy name - that is ISKCON.' We rejoined: 'They are saying we don't have any association here and are therefore in maya.' He replied: 'Association can be two or two hundred. If you are two and compatible, you can become perfect in Krsna consciousness. If you are 200 and are not, then no one will make advancement.'"
Srila Prabhupada is our leader, the holy name is our main weapon
And the original Bhagavad Gita As It Is, is our war plan. And for the support of Srila Prabhupada, with a firm reliance on the protection of Krsna, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honour.
The Oath of Honor for The First Hanuman Rangers.
Ys Hasti Gopala Dasa