Friday, November 30, 2012
Woman diksha gurus by Aditi Sinha
[PADA: Right, why are the ISKCON GBC members proposing to "vote in" women gurus, when their "men gurus" are in a constant tailspin of controversy and scandals?]
What Will Happen when Woman becomes Diksha Guru? BY: ADITI SINHA
The mother is the first guru! She teaches the child how to do almost everything, when the child -- all humans are born in ignorance -- cannot eat, defecate, converse, understand, etc. Does this mean that women should be formal diksha gurus? If so, why is that NOT the Vedic / Vaishnava tradition? The answer is clear: there are varying duties for the various members of society, in the varnashram concept of society. Srila Prabhupada propagated that society be based on varnashram. ISKCON too is a society.
My Views:- Hari-bhakti-vilasa (11.708) quotes from the Visnu Purana (3.12.30) regarding how a grhastha should work in this world: yosito navamanyeta/ na casam visvased budhah/ na caiversur bhavet tasu/ nadhikuryat kadacana : "A wise man should never insult women, nor should he trust them. He should never become jealous of women, nor should he ever appoint them.
Woman should not become diksha guru. Since Lord Caitanya's time no lady became diksa guru ..and that time also very few woman, only 5 in the Gaudiya line. That time was different. This should not be happen ... this is not prescribed duty for woman. It is not in our sastra and culture. Woman's place is in the home .... they should be protected. It will not look good if a woman will become diksha guru and preach all over the world. Women should not be formal diksha gurus. A pure devotee woman never wants to go all over the world, she is happy with making prasadam for devotees, serving them, dressing Radha Krishna Deities... plucking flowers and tulsi and after that offering those flower and tulsi to Krishna. She distributes books and preaches her family and friends and those who she wants to preach to.
What Will Happen when Woman becomes Diksha Guru? BY: ADITI SINHA
The mother is the first guru! She teaches the child how to do almost everything, when the child -- all humans are born in ignorance -- cannot eat, defecate, converse, understand, etc. Does this mean that women should be formal diksha gurus? If so, why is that NOT the Vedic / Vaishnava tradition? The answer is clear: there are varying duties for the various members of society, in the varnashram concept of society. Srila Prabhupada propagated that society be based on varnashram. ISKCON too is a society.
My Views:- Hari-bhakti-vilasa (11.708) quotes from the Visnu Purana (3.12.30) regarding how a grhastha should work in this world: yosito navamanyeta/ na casam visvased budhah/ na caiversur bhavet tasu/ nadhikuryat kadacana : "A wise man should never insult women, nor should he trust them. He should never become jealous of women, nor should he ever appoint them.
Woman should not become diksha guru. Since Lord Caitanya's time no lady became diksa guru ..and that time also very few woman, only 5 in the Gaudiya line. That time was different. This should not be happen ... this is not prescribed duty for woman. It is not in our sastra and culture. Woman's place is in the home .... they should be protected. It will not look good if a woman will become diksha guru and preach all over the world. Women should not be formal diksha gurus. A pure devotee woman never wants to go all over the world, she is happy with making prasadam for devotees, serving them, dressing Radha Krishna Deities... plucking flowers and tulsi and after that offering those flower and tulsi to Krishna. She distributes books and preaches her family and friends and those who she wants to preach to.
[PD: Correct, the main "women gurus" we see now are people like Mother Amma and others, not in the tradition vaishnavas. Of course if most of the MALE gurus they ALREADY certified tended to be debauchee men, what judgement does their group have?]
A real devotee woman never wants to leave her family, she always serves her family to think that Krishna gave her the opportunity to serve her husband and child . She thinks that this is work given by Krishna.... because Krishna gave this opportunity to ladies to become mother. Like in our home, mother always takes care of our needs in the home and our father goes outside to earn money for the family... so the same woman should do, bhakti in home and temple and only man should become diksha guru and preach all over the world.
If a lady wants to leave grahstha asrama and wants to become diksha guru then that woman is in maya ... this is for popularity. In the old days, only man used to go for work and woman never used to go ... but gone are those days. Now we see working woman who go for work ... but those ladies who are housewives, they maintain their family better than working woman and their children, and also get good sanskar. And their married life is better than working woman. Where both man and woman go for work most cases are divorce cases, or their child will be in bad association ..most of the cases I have seen ..... So what will happen when woman will become diksha guru? This should not be done.
[PD: Right, more society calamity, is that what we need?]
When a girls is born protected by father, when she is married she is protected by her husband and then woman is protected by her son..... So, authority jago … wake up… this responsibility is very huge. Don't ruin other peoples life. I think this is what is going to happen in the Kali yuga...... Krishna please save us ....chant Hare Krishna and jaldi chalo .... go back to godhead. I am not offending anyone, this is truth which I heard and told .... sorry if I hurt anyone.
[PD: Right, keep the programs simple and do not make all these concoctions, bravo!]
"Actually, Dhruva Maharaja's mother, Suniti, was his patha-pradarsaka-guru. Patha-pradarsaka-guru means "the guru, or the spiritual master, who shows the way." Such a guru is sometimes called siksa-guru. Although Narada Muni was his diksa-guru (initiating spiritual master), Suniti, his mother, was the first who gave him instruction on how to achieve the favor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is the duty of the siksa-guru or diksa-guru to instruct the disciple in the right way, and it depends on the disciple to execute the process. According to sastric injunctions, there is no difference between siksa-guru and diksa-guru,and generally the siksa-guru later on becomes the diksa-guru. Suniti, however, being a woman, and specifically his mother, could not become Dhruva Maharaja's diksa-guru." (Bhag. 4.12.32 purport)
"In the Manu-smrti it is stated that a woman should not be given independence, but should be given protection by her father, husband and elderly sons. In all circumstances a woman should remain dependent upon some guardian.Presently women are given full independence like men, but actually we can see that such independent women are no happier than those women who are placed under guardians. If people follow the injunctions given by the great sages, srutis and smrtis, they can actually be happy in both this life and the next. Unfortunately rascals are manufacturing so many ways and means to be happy. Everyone is inventing so many methods. Consequently human society has lost the standard ways of life, both materially and spiritually, and as a result people are bewildered, and there is no peace or happiness in the world. Although they are trying to solve the problems of human society in the United Nations, they are still baffled. Because they do not follow the liberated instructions of the Vedas, they are unhappy." (Bhag. 4.18.3 purport)
Nowadays, female goes into the office and man and woman work together....and most of the cases people who are already married, they do extra affair .....so this is the result of that change. What will happen when woman will become diksha guru? Now we have seen many ISKCON leaders fall down, like Prabhavishnu, ...this is not a good idea to make a lady diksha guru, no no no please no.
[PD: No no no please no. Hee hee, yes, as soon as the GBC gets another brain fart, everyone is going, no, no, no, no! Oh my God no!]
Western ladies remarry again and again, so this also should not be done .....A lady should be one man woman.... this is according to our culture. I think there is no difference between prostitute and those ladies who remarry again and again. According to shastra, when a lady does sex with 3 different men she is considered as prostitute.
A real devotee woman never wants to leave her family, she always serves her family to think that Krishna gave her the opportunity to serve her husband and child . She thinks that this is work given by Krishna.... because Krishna gave this opportunity to ladies to become mother. Like in our home, mother always takes care of our needs in the home and our father goes outside to earn money for the family... so the same woman should do, bhakti in home and temple and only man should become diksha guru and preach all over the world.
If a lady wants to leave grahstha asrama and wants to become diksha guru then that woman is in maya ... this is for popularity. In the old days, only man used to go for work and woman never used to go ... but gone are those days. Now we see working woman who go for work ... but those ladies who are housewives, they maintain their family better than working woman and their children, and also get good sanskar. And their married life is better than working woman. Where both man and woman go for work most cases are divorce cases, or their child will be in bad association ..most of the cases I have seen ..... So what will happen when woman will become diksha guru? This should not be done.
[PD: Right, more society calamity, is that what we need?]
When a girls is born protected by father, when she is married she is protected by her husband and then woman is protected by her son..... So, authority jago … wake up… this responsibility is very huge. Don't ruin other peoples life. I think this is what is going to happen in the Kali yuga...... Krishna please save us ....chant Hare Krishna and jaldi chalo .... go back to godhead. I am not offending anyone, this is truth which I heard and told .... sorry if I hurt anyone.
[PD: Right, keep the programs simple and do not make all these concoctions, bravo!]
"Actually, Dhruva Maharaja's mother, Suniti, was his patha-pradarsaka-guru. Patha-pradarsaka-guru means "the guru, or the spiritual master, who shows the way." Such a guru is sometimes called siksa-guru. Although Narada Muni was his diksa-guru (initiating spiritual master), Suniti, his mother, was the first who gave him instruction on how to achieve the favor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is the duty of the siksa-guru or diksa-guru to instruct the disciple in the right way, and it depends on the disciple to execute the process. According to sastric injunctions, there is no difference between siksa-guru and diksa-guru,and generally the siksa-guru later on becomes the diksa-guru. Suniti, however, being a woman, and specifically his mother, could not become Dhruva Maharaja's diksa-guru." (Bhag. 4.12.32 purport)
"In the Manu-smrti it is stated that a woman should not be given independence, but should be given protection by her father, husband and elderly sons. In all circumstances a woman should remain dependent upon some guardian.Presently women are given full independence like men, but actually we can see that such independent women are no happier than those women who are placed under guardians. If people follow the injunctions given by the great sages, srutis and smrtis, they can actually be happy in both this life and the next. Unfortunately rascals are manufacturing so many ways and means to be happy. Everyone is inventing so many methods. Consequently human society has lost the standard ways of life, both materially and spiritually, and as a result people are bewildered, and there is no peace or happiness in the world. Although they are trying to solve the problems of human society in the United Nations, they are still baffled. Because they do not follow the liberated instructions of the Vedas, they are unhappy." (Bhag. 4.18.3 purport)
Nowadays, female goes into the office and man and woman work together....and most of the cases people who are already married, they do extra affair .....so this is the result of that change. What will happen when woman will become diksha guru? Now we have seen many ISKCON leaders fall down, like Prabhavishnu, ...this is not a good idea to make a lady diksha guru, no no no please no.
[PD: No no no please no. Hee hee, yes, as soon as the GBC gets another brain fart, everyone is going, no, no, no, no! Oh my God no!]
Western ladies remarry again and again, so this also should not be done .....A lady should be one man woman.... this is according to our culture. I think there is no difference between prostitute and those ladies who remarry again and again. According to shastra, when a lady does sex with 3 different men she is considered as prostitute.
[PD: Same would apply for the man, men who marry many times are also prostitutes by this standard. Of course some of our devotee men have been married half dozen times, this is another societal disaster process.]
Once someone told me this world is according to 2 rajya: Ram rajya and Ravan Rajya. In Ram Raj a lady marries with only one Man, for Man same condition. In Ravan Rajya they marry so many persons.....so Europe, America and Australia are based on Ravan Rajya. See today their condition… they are finished. They remarry again and again. Nowadays in India also people give Divorce and remarry again ........ so this should not be done anywhere.
"A faithful wife is supposed to cooperate with her husband in fulfilling all material desires so that he can then become comfortable and execute spiritual activities for the perfection of life. If, however, the husband is progressive in spiritual advancement, the wife undoubtedly shares in his activities, and thus both the wife and the husband profit in spiritual perfection. It is essential, therefore, that girls as well as boys be trained to discharge spiritual duties so that at the time of cooperation both will be benefited. The training of the boy is brahmacarya, and the training of the girl is chastity." (Srimad Bhagavatam 3.14.17 purport)
"It is the duty of a faithful and chaste wife to help her husband in every respect, especially when the husband is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." (Srimad Bhagavatam 3.23.5 purport)
"Females are not meant for the renounced order of life; they should be faithful to their good husbands, for if a husband is competent for liberation, his wife will also achieve liberation with him. As stated in the śāstra, the results of a husband's pious activities are shared by his wife. Therefore a woman's duty is to be very chaste and faithful to her husband. Then without separate endeavor she will share in all the profit the husband earns." (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.6.1 purport)
"The relationship between husband and wife is firmly established when the wife is faithful and the husband sincere. Then even if the wife, being weaker, is unable to execute devotional service with her husband, if she is chaste and sincere she shares half of her husband's activities." (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.19.18 purport)
"A chaste woman must dress nicely and decorate herself with golden ornaments for the pleasure of her husband. Always wearing clean and attractive garments, she should sweep and clean the household with water and other liquids so that the entire house is always pure and clean. She should collect the household paraphernalia and keep the house always aromatic with incense and flowers and must be ready to execute the desires of her husband. Being modest and truthful, controlling her senses, and speaking in sweet words, a chaste woman should engage in the service of her husband with love, according to time and circumstances." (Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.26-27)
"A chaste woman should not be greedy, but satisfied in all circumstances. She must be very expert in handling household affairs and should be fully conversant with religious principles. She should speak pleasingly and truthfully and should be very careful and always clean and pure. Thus a chaste woman should engage with affection in the service of a husband who is not fallen." (Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.28)
"Although the duties of a woman are different from those of a man, a chaste woman is not meant to serve a fallen husband. If her husband is fallen, it is recommended that she give up his association. Giving up the association of her husband does not mean, however, that a woman should marry again and thus indulge in prostitution." (Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.28 purport)
"If a chaste woman unfortunately marries a husband who is fallen, she should live separately from him. Similarly, a husband can separate himself from a woman who is not chaste according to the description of the śāstra. The conclusion is that a husband should be a pure Vaiṣṇava and that a woman should be a chaste wife with all the symptoms described in this regard." (Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.28 purport)
"A chaste woman will never accept any man other than her husband, even if there be someone equally as handsome and qualified." (Srimad Bhagavatam 9.3.16 purport)
"A wife is always trained to be chaste and faithful to her husband, for this helps her achieve deliverance from any abominable material condition." (Srimad Bhagavatam 9.20.22 purport)
So please, woman become one man woman, and don't try to become diksha guru. This is not our job. This is very big responsibility. A woman who serve her husband and family, she is liberated already. Always remember Krishna, He is the real husband of all jivas. When Krishna is most handsome there is nothing is material man ....Krishna will never leave ...and normal jiva will leave you.
[PD: Very wise woman here!]
Historical Examples of Female Gaudiya Diksa-gurus. Sita Thakurani—The wife of Advaita Prabhu. According to the Prema-vilasa (vilasa 24) of Nityananda Dasa, Sita Thakurani gave diksa (krsna-mantra) to her two servants, Nandini and Jangali. The vaikuntha-svarupas of Nandini and Jangali are the well-known gatekeepers Jaya and Vijaya (Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika text 89). Their disciple-ship to Sitadevi, along with other interesting facts, is corroborated in the well-known and respected compilation namedGaudiya-vaisnava abhidhana and in the Sita-caritra by Lokanatha Dasa.
Jahnava Thakurani – The wife of Nityananda Prabhu. Jahnava Thakurani became one of the greatest leaders of our tradition in its second generation. Virabhadra and Ramacandra, the sons (biological and adopted respectively) of Nityananda Prabhu, were two of the most famous among her initiated disciples.
"Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura writes in his Anubhasya, ‘Virabhadra Gosani was the direct son of Srila Nityananda Prabhu and a disciple of Jahnava Devi.'" (Caitanya-caritamrtaAdi-lila 11.8 purport)
"Yadunandana Acarya's wife, Laksmi, was a very humble and submissive lady. She had two beautiful daughters named Srimati and Narayani. By the arrangement of Sri Isvari (Jahnava Devi), these two girls became the fortunate wives of Viracandra Prabhu. On the day of the wedding, Yadunandana took initiation from Viracandra, and Sri Jahnava happily accepted Srimati and Narayani as her disciples." (Bhakti-ratnakara, Ch. 13)
She is also confirmed as a diksa-guru both in the Gaudiya-vaisnava abhidhana (pg. 1246-47) and in the Prema-vilasa of Nityananda Dasa (vilasas 15 & 20).
Hemalata Thakurani – The eldest daughter of Srinivasa Acarya. Hemalata Thakurani, a contemporary of Jahnava, was one of the prominent leaders of the tradition at her time. Among her disciples, Yadunandana, the author of Karnananda, is particularly well-known (see Karnananda, Ch.2 &3] and the introduction [pg 12] to Krsna-karnamrta by Sambidananda Das Ph.D). She also had a wayward disciple named Rupa Kaviraja. (seeGaudiya-vaisnava abhidhana pg. 1422)
"Now the disciples of Sri Hemalata shall be described. Sri Suvala Chandra Thakura, and his nephew Sri Gokula Chakravarti were her disciples. Sri Radhavallava Thakura from Mandala village, Sri Vallavadasa of the Gosvami family, and Yadunandana Vaidya dasa of Malihati village were all disciples of Sri Isvari. Kanurama Chakravarti and his two servants Darpanayana and Candi, Ramacarana, Madhu Miswas, and Radha Kanta Vaidya were other disciples of Hemalata. Jagadisa Kaviraja and his follower, who was the brother of Radhavallabh Kaviraja were initiated by Hemalata." (Karnananda, Ch.2, last paragraph)
"One day my spiritual master, Sri Hemalata, revealed the glories of Ramacandra to me." "I shall describe another episode which I heard from my guru, Sri Isvari Hemalata." (Karnananda, Ch.3)
Gauranga-priya Devi – The second wife and disciple of Srinivasa Acarya (Gaudiya-vaisnava abhidhana pg. 1224) She was from a Cakravarti brahmana family, her father being Raghunatha Cakravarti, a resident of West Gopalapura. She initiated a number of disciples, one being Gurucarana Dasa, who wrote a book at her behest called Premamrta which is based on thePrema-vilasa (Gaudiya-vaisnava abhidhana pg. 1203).
"Srinivasa Acarya's first wife, Srimati Isvari Thakurani, was a highly devotional lady. Gauranga-priya, his second wife, also possessed exalted devotional qualities. In due course of time many persons became disciples of Srinivasa Acarya and his wives."( Karnananda, Ch.2)
Gangamata Gosvamini – A disciple of Haridasa Pandita Gosvami, the sevaite of Govindaji mentioned in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta. Among others, King Mukundadeva of Jagannatha Puri and a number of Lord Jagannatha's sevaites received diksafrom her. She was also an eloquent speaker and explained Srimad-Bhagavatam to large audiences. Gangamata Gosvamini's case is further confirmation that a woman can be a guru in a bona fide Gaudiya Vaisnava line. At least up to her point in the line, the line was bona fide because her guru is confirmed by Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami in the Caitanya-caritamrta (Adi 8.60). Her acceptance of disciples is confirmed in Gaudiya-vaisnava abhidhana (pgs. 1197-98) and by the present day mahanta, Balarama Das Gosvami, at the Gangamata Gosvamini Matha in Puri.
After Ganga Mata Goswamini that floated on the Ganga in Puri there has not been any bona fide female diksa gurus in our Gaudiya line....
Once someone told me this world is according to 2 rajya: Ram rajya and Ravan Rajya. In Ram Raj a lady marries with only one Man, for Man same condition. In Ravan Rajya they marry so many persons.....so Europe, America and Australia are based on Ravan Rajya. See today their condition… they are finished. They remarry again and again. Nowadays in India also people give Divorce and remarry again ........ so this should not be done anywhere.
"A faithful wife is supposed to cooperate with her husband in fulfilling all material desires so that he can then become comfortable and execute spiritual activities for the perfection of life. If, however, the husband is progressive in spiritual advancement, the wife undoubtedly shares in his activities, and thus both the wife and the husband profit in spiritual perfection. It is essential, therefore, that girls as well as boys be trained to discharge spiritual duties so that at the time of cooperation both will be benefited. The training of the boy is brahmacarya, and the training of the girl is chastity." (Srimad Bhagavatam 3.14.17 purport)
"It is the duty of a faithful and chaste wife to help her husband in every respect, especially when the husband is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." (Srimad Bhagavatam 3.23.5 purport)
"Females are not meant for the renounced order of life; they should be faithful to their good husbands, for if a husband is competent for liberation, his wife will also achieve liberation with him. As stated in the śāstra, the results of a husband's pious activities are shared by his wife. Therefore a woman's duty is to be very chaste and faithful to her husband. Then without separate endeavor she will share in all the profit the husband earns." (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.6.1 purport)
"The relationship between husband and wife is firmly established when the wife is faithful and the husband sincere. Then even if the wife, being weaker, is unable to execute devotional service with her husband, if she is chaste and sincere she shares half of her husband's activities." (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.19.18 purport)
"A chaste woman must dress nicely and decorate herself with golden ornaments for the pleasure of her husband. Always wearing clean and attractive garments, she should sweep and clean the household with water and other liquids so that the entire house is always pure and clean. She should collect the household paraphernalia and keep the house always aromatic with incense and flowers and must be ready to execute the desires of her husband. Being modest and truthful, controlling her senses, and speaking in sweet words, a chaste woman should engage in the service of her husband with love, according to time and circumstances." (Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.26-27)
"A chaste woman should not be greedy, but satisfied in all circumstances. She must be very expert in handling household affairs and should be fully conversant with religious principles. She should speak pleasingly and truthfully and should be very careful and always clean and pure. Thus a chaste woman should engage with affection in the service of a husband who is not fallen." (Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.28)
"Although the duties of a woman are different from those of a man, a chaste woman is not meant to serve a fallen husband. If her husband is fallen, it is recommended that she give up his association. Giving up the association of her husband does not mean, however, that a woman should marry again and thus indulge in prostitution." (Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.28 purport)
"If a chaste woman unfortunately marries a husband who is fallen, she should live separately from him. Similarly, a husband can separate himself from a woman who is not chaste according to the description of the śāstra. The conclusion is that a husband should be a pure Vaiṣṇava and that a woman should be a chaste wife with all the symptoms described in this regard." (Srimad Bhagavatam 7.11.28 purport)
"A chaste woman will never accept any man other than her husband, even if there be someone equally as handsome and qualified." (Srimad Bhagavatam 9.3.16 purport)
"A wife is always trained to be chaste and faithful to her husband, for this helps her achieve deliverance from any abominable material condition." (Srimad Bhagavatam 9.20.22 purport)
So please, woman become one man woman, and don't try to become diksha guru. This is not our job. This is very big responsibility. A woman who serve her husband and family, she is liberated already. Always remember Krishna, He is the real husband of all jivas. When Krishna is most handsome there is nothing is material man ....Krishna will never leave ...and normal jiva will leave you.
[PD: Very wise woman here!]
Historical Examples of Female Gaudiya Diksa-gurus. Sita Thakurani—The wife of Advaita Prabhu. According to the Prema-vilasa (vilasa 24) of Nityananda Dasa, Sita Thakurani gave diksa (krsna-mantra) to her two servants, Nandini and Jangali. The vaikuntha-svarupas of Nandini and Jangali are the well-known gatekeepers Jaya and Vijaya (Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika text 89). Their disciple-ship to Sitadevi, along with other interesting facts, is corroborated in the well-known and respected compilation namedGaudiya-vaisnava abhidhana and in the Sita-caritra by Lokanatha Dasa.
Jahnava Thakurani – The wife of Nityananda Prabhu. Jahnava Thakurani became one of the greatest leaders of our tradition in its second generation. Virabhadra and Ramacandra, the sons (biological and adopted respectively) of Nityananda Prabhu, were two of the most famous among her initiated disciples.
"Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura writes in his Anubhasya, ‘Virabhadra Gosani was the direct son of Srila Nityananda Prabhu and a disciple of Jahnava Devi.'" (Caitanya-caritamrtaAdi-lila 11.8 purport)
"Yadunandana Acarya's wife, Laksmi, was a very humble and submissive lady. She had two beautiful daughters named Srimati and Narayani. By the arrangement of Sri Isvari (Jahnava Devi), these two girls became the fortunate wives of Viracandra Prabhu. On the day of the wedding, Yadunandana took initiation from Viracandra, and Sri Jahnava happily accepted Srimati and Narayani as her disciples." (Bhakti-ratnakara, Ch. 13)
She is also confirmed as a diksa-guru both in the Gaudiya-vaisnava abhidhana (pg. 1246-47) and in the Prema-vilasa of Nityananda Dasa (vilasas 15 & 20).
Hemalata Thakurani – The eldest daughter of Srinivasa Acarya. Hemalata Thakurani, a contemporary of Jahnava, was one of the prominent leaders of the tradition at her time. Among her disciples, Yadunandana, the author of Karnananda, is particularly well-known (see Karnananda, Ch.2 &3] and the introduction [pg 12] to Krsna-karnamrta by Sambidananda Das Ph.D). She also had a wayward disciple named Rupa Kaviraja. (seeGaudiya-vaisnava abhidhana pg. 1422)
"Now the disciples of Sri Hemalata shall be described. Sri Suvala Chandra Thakura, and his nephew Sri Gokula Chakravarti were her disciples. Sri Radhavallava Thakura from Mandala village, Sri Vallavadasa of the Gosvami family, and Yadunandana Vaidya dasa of Malihati village were all disciples of Sri Isvari. Kanurama Chakravarti and his two servants Darpanayana and Candi, Ramacarana, Madhu Miswas, and Radha Kanta Vaidya were other disciples of Hemalata. Jagadisa Kaviraja and his follower, who was the brother of Radhavallabh Kaviraja were initiated by Hemalata." (Karnananda, Ch.2, last paragraph)
"One day my spiritual master, Sri Hemalata, revealed the glories of Ramacandra to me." "I shall describe another episode which I heard from my guru, Sri Isvari Hemalata." (Karnananda, Ch.3)
Gauranga-priya Devi – The second wife and disciple of Srinivasa Acarya (Gaudiya-vaisnava abhidhana pg. 1224) She was from a Cakravarti brahmana family, her father being Raghunatha Cakravarti, a resident of West Gopalapura. She initiated a number of disciples, one being Gurucarana Dasa, who wrote a book at her behest called Premamrta which is based on thePrema-vilasa (Gaudiya-vaisnava abhidhana pg. 1203).
"Srinivasa Acarya's first wife, Srimati Isvari Thakurani, was a highly devotional lady. Gauranga-priya, his second wife, also possessed exalted devotional qualities. In due course of time many persons became disciples of Srinivasa Acarya and his wives."( Karnananda, Ch.2)
Gangamata Gosvamini – A disciple of Haridasa Pandita Gosvami, the sevaite of Govindaji mentioned in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta. Among others, King Mukundadeva of Jagannatha Puri and a number of Lord Jagannatha's sevaites received diksafrom her. She was also an eloquent speaker and explained Srimad-Bhagavatam to large audiences. Gangamata Gosvamini's case is further confirmation that a woman can be a guru in a bona fide Gaudiya Vaisnava line. At least up to her point in the line, the line was bona fide because her guru is confirmed by Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami in the Caitanya-caritamrta (Adi 8.60). Her acceptance of disciples is confirmed in Gaudiya-vaisnava abhidhana (pgs. 1197-98) and by the present day mahanta, Balarama Das Gosvami, at the Gangamata Gosvamini Matha in Puri.
After Ganga Mata Goswamini that floated on the Ganga in Puri there has not been any bona fide female diksa gurus in our Gaudiya line....
[PD: Right, and of course since the GBC is making debauchees into gurus, this has no connection to any of these great woman devotees who are bona fide.]
But now no woman should copy these personalities ............
[PD: Excellent, imitation of the pure devotees is not for us neophytes!]
Govinda Dasi, Srila Prabhupada's first lady disciples said:- However, I do believe in "initiating" slugs, lizards, spiders, roaches and other such creatures, but that is on the order of my spiritual master Srila Prabhupada....
The fact is, Srila Prabhupada never appointed one single female temple president or GBC, and that says it all.....what to speak of being a diksa guru. If this will happen, then it is to the insult of Srila Prabhupada. So if you really love and respect Srila Prabhupada, then please don't let this happen ....
[PD: Excellent, imitation of the pure devotees is not for us neophytes!]
Govinda Dasi, Srila Prabhupada's first lady disciples said:- However, I do believe in "initiating" slugs, lizards, spiders, roaches and other such creatures, but that is on the order of my spiritual master Srila Prabhupada....
The fact is, Srila Prabhupada never appointed one single female temple president or GBC, and that says it all.....what to speak of being a diksa guru. If this will happen, then it is to the insult of Srila Prabhupada. So if you really love and respect Srila Prabhupada, then please don't let this happen ....
Hare Krishna Krishna's servant, Aditi Sinha
Thursday, November 29, 2012
More Prabhupadanuga web sites!
http://prabhupadabooks.com/
http://www.srilaprabhupad.com (lectures)
http://www.krishnafiles.com
http://www.hisdivinegrace.com
http://www.prabhupadavani.org
http://www.folknet.in
http://www.iskconbangalore.org
http://www.akshayapatra.org
http://www.srinivasagovinda.com
http://www.asitis.com
http://www.yourmatchlessgifts.com
http://www.krishnapath.org/free-audio-books/ (Srila Prabhupada books AUDIO and Aindra's book on AUDIO, plus other goodies.
http://www.srilaprabhupad.com (lectures)
http://www.krishnafiles.com
http://www.hisdivinegrace.com
http://www.prabhupadavani.org
http://www.folknet.in
http://www.iskconbangalore.org
http://www.akshayapatra.org
http://www.srinivasagovinda.com
http://www.asitis.com
http://www.yourmatchlessgifts.com
http://www.krishnapath.org/free-audio-books/ (Srila Prabhupada books AUDIO and Aindra's book on AUDIO, plus other goodies.
"Vrnda" sannyasis (in Spanish language)
http://eltamborrugiente.blogspot.com.es/2011/03/los-sannyasis-de-vrinda.html
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Wednesday, November 28, 2012
Fooling God Is Not Possible!
http://www.iskcontimes.com/Fools-Think-I-Can-Deceive-God
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ISKCON gurus: all about money (by Narayan mj)
http://youtu.be/oczdiWQJ6ns
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So why did he support them as gurus in the first place?
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So why did he support them as gurus in the first place?
Enver is a bluffer update
OK sound argument number one, where are we told to do nothing and wait for the next acharya? There is no order to do that, you are a bluffer. ys pd
Promoting HDG worship is "cowardly"?
Dear Enver, We are not being cowards, we are promoting the worship of the pure devotee, which can get people killed in case you have not noticed. No one cares about yours and Rocana's idea of "waiting for the next acharya." The GBC is laughing at that idea, this plays into their hands, this is the cowardly position. Our position is to confront them with the worship of the acharya idea, and that is why they are suing us and not suing you, they do not care about your idea because your idea -- helps -- their idea by diversions from the real issue. ys pd
Tuesday, November 27, 2012
Monday, November 26, 2012
Enver's waiting program update
Enver also said we need to sit around and wait for the next acharya, ok so -- why is he preaching anything then since he is waiting? Our thousands of Prabhupada devotees should stop all their preaching work, no more harinama and books distribution, and sit and wait? All our preaching has to be halted -- while we wait until Enver figures what he is doing? What! All deity worship in our temples has to stop, and we should stop all activity, and wait? Where was waiting process ordered? And why do we have to stop everything, because of Enver waiting? Where is it said, all preaching must be halted because Enver is waiting? And Rocana says the same thing, the Prabhupada preachers are bogus, we have to stop and wait for the next acharya, ... never mind we might be waiting until the next kalpa? ys pd
Sunday, November 25, 2012
Did this fellow take sannyasa from Dhanurdar?
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http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-12/editorials9356.htm
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http://eltamborrugiente.blogspot.com/2011/08/maestro-de-logica-e-inferencia.html
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What is the official position of the Costa Rica Farm? Have they disassociated from the GBC gurus, or what? Have they made an official position? ys pd
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http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-12/editorials9356.htm
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http://eltamborrugiente.blogspot.com/2011/08/maestro-de-logica-e-inferencia.html
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What is the official position of the Costa Rica Farm? Have they disassociated from the GBC gurus, or what? Have they made an official position? ys pd
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Saturday, November 24, 2012
Women gurus in Kali Yuga by Govinda Dasi
[PADA NOTE: This is her full article below, with NO COMMENTS or EDITS from PADA editor. These are ALL her WORDS below! We emphasized some of her comments in BOLD, because they are so striking!
Govinda dasi is with us on the book changes issue, however she has a more liberal view of the guru issue than we do, yet -- she makes some very important remarks herein. I think our ideas and her ideas are gradually coming together over time. Anyway she is standing up in her own way to the GBC's bogus guru's program, and so she deserves a lot of credit for her writing very boldly about their deviations. Bravo! I wish more of our men wrote like this! ys pd]
WOMEN GURUS IN KALI YUGA? by GOVINDA DASI
First let me say I am writing my opinions on this issue only because of repeated emails and postings. Frankly, I had hoped to stay out of it, but since some postings have even taken the liberty of expressing my opinions at a time when there were none, I have decided I must say something. My first response to this issue was, with mild disbelief, “Why would any woman even want to become a guru?!”
“Why would anyone want to take on someone else’s karmas?”
So let me say early on, that I am in no way a contender for any such position, either in this life or the next. Frankly, I personally am much more interested in clearing my own remaining karmas and going back to Godhead than in taking on anyone else’s karmas. Regarding the issue, male vs. female: Such kinds of strong identification and attachment to the temporary male / female bodily identities are a great detriment to spiritual life. Srila Prabhupada taught us that this human life is very short, and so tiny and frail. We can be male today, female tomorrow, male again, female again, or even feline, canine or whatever. He never fostered the intense (and ridiculous) identification with gender that somehow grew up in the later years of Iskcon.
Srila Prabhupada, being a great saintly personality, saw with “equal vision” as so stated in the Gita. Thus he gave equal love, concern, respect, and often responsibilities to both his male and female disciples. Srila Prabhupada clearly saw the soul, and he based his dealings on that level. He wanted his female disciples protected, not exploited. And he wanted his male disciples to take up the yoke of responsibility he placed upon them.
All opinions aside, this is indeed Kali Yuga, and Kali’s world is replete with dozens of Gurus, Smurus, God-chasers, God-wannabes, and magicians posing as gurus.
The fact that charlatans abound is certainly well publicized. Even the high-end uptown swamis and gurus have run off with airline stewardesses and young female disciples. A short online search can produce numerous histories of such infamous gurus. It’s safe to say, “the water has been fouled by the few.”
Thus perhaps the main reason for the increasing clamor for female gurus is the widespread distrust of male power abuse, the patriarchal misuse of power that exists in the world today. After so much deception, power-mongering, and lechery, few spiritual aspirants feel safe in their choice of a male guru. This is across the board--not only in Iskcon, but in numerous other Vedantic societies, yoga margs, shamanic paths, etc.
Certainly, both within Iskcon and without, there are some very sincere and accomplished God brothers who are doing wonderful preaching work, and indeed sacrificing their lives to serve as guru to numerous disciples. I greatly admire those of my dedicated God brothers who travel continuously all over Eastern Europe, India, Asia, and elsewhere, preaching and leading wonderful kirtans wherever they go. They are truly living the sanyas dharma as taught by Srila Prabhupada. They travel continuously, sacrificing their time and energy, and often in spite of advanced age and ill health. They have no private life, or “down time.” This is praiseworthy, and not an easy path to follow. They are fulfilling the role of guru to the best of their ability.
It is undeniable, however, that in Iskcon, as elsewhere, we have seen our share of power politics and also sexual misconduct amongst gurus, GBC’s, and other leaders.
So has the Catholic church. So also has the Protestant revivalist culture. And so have the various Yoga/Hindu/Buddhist traditions as well. Perhaps it is for this reason that many sincere spiritual aspirants find it much easier to entrust their soul to an older woman who has been practicing years of sincere sadhana--(whatever sadhana: Yogic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc)--than to a male guru who may eventually jump into bed with an airline stewardess--or worse--one of his trusting young disciples. In Iskcon as well, older women are more likely to be stable and sense-controlled, and established in their bhakti due to years of humble practice. It is far more likely to see an old gray-haired 60+ year-old male going after a 20-something female than an older woman doing this. So the reason for the clamor is clear.
In fact, in today’s Western culture, often the very term “guru” is enough to bring up automatic associations with “danger” or “scandal.” Out of curiosity, I recently read a book by Dr. Mariana Caplan called “The Guru Question: The Perils and Rewards of Choosing a Spiritual Teacher.” In it she states, “I have spent time with gurus who are living proof that “guru” can be a four-letter word. Nobody has asked me to drink Cyanide-laced Kool-Aid, but I have been offered plenty of other substances. And most of the other types of crimes of power and passion one hears about in relation to purported gurus have been perpetrated upon me and people I know.
"After seventeen years of experience on four continents and ten years of research in the field, I am both personally and professionally all too familiar with the shocking abuses of power that have been committed in the name of spirituality.”
She also notes that, “Within spiritual circles in the United States, the argument can be summed up as follows: the gurus came West in the sixties; we believed in them; we gave them our money, lives, and souls, and they betrayed us with scandals involving money, sex, and power.”
Another important factor is this: Nowadays, the youth in America, and most of the Western world, have grown up (mostly) fatherless. Naturally, they are more inclined to trust and respect and hear from the senior women in their lives. After all, it was their mothers who remained steadfast, often struggling to support the children, while their fathers were either completely absent from home, or worse. Thus many young people simply do not trust male personalities due to their many bad experiences, either at home, in Gurukul, or in public schools or churches. This is a fact of modern life.
This is one reason that it is very likely that lady gurus will flourish in future. Female gurus are already prominent in various other spiritual paths, both in the East and the West. Some say this is because males in modern society have not lived up to the standards of manhood as set forth in the Vedas--and even common practical decency. It is a Kali Yuga fact.
So perhaps we should look at all this from the young bhaktas’ point of view. If they grew up in Iskcon, it was the matajis who fed them, clothed them, and protected them, and the male devotees who beat them, verbally assaulted them, and even sexually abused them.
In mainstream Western society, with its colossal divorce rate, it is the mothers who worked two jobs to feed the kids, send them to school, and counsel them, and who tried to protect them from taking wrong paths. More often than not, the fathers abandoned them, showed little signs of caring, paid little or no child support (unless forced to do so by the courts), and usually found a younger prettier wife as well. Realistically, how does this compare with the Vedic conception of “man’s duty and woman’s duty?”
So as a result of such upbringing, many young aspirants simply do not trust the male figure as a role model in Western society. He has lost his credibility.
In Dr. Caplan’s book, the author explores the horrors of trusting various gurus, and outlines the principle of “conscious discipleship.” Casually translated, this means, “educate yourself and understand the complexity of the student-teacher relationship, examine the teacher carefully, don’t be gullible, exercise spiritual discernment, and be very very cautious when choosing a guru.” Her own horrid experiences often echo ours within Iskcon. It shows there really is a problem, and we need to find a way to address it. We cannot be blind to the issues at hand.
We have to live in the times that we find ourselves placed, and do the best we can to spread Lord Chaitanya’s Sankirtan movement. We have to find a way to do this without getting too hung up or stuck in some temporary male/female, black/white, or green/pink identity. That is the crux of the matter. So the real issue is this: can this concept of female gurus be embraced by our spiritual lineage, and ordained by our line of Acharyas coming from Brahma? That is the important question.
The following quotes from Srila Prabhupada’s letters and conversations seem to verify that it can indeed be supported by the Acharya. “If a woman is perfect in Krsna consciousness ... Just like Jahnava devi, Lord Nityananda's wife, she was acarya. She was acarya. She was controlling the whole Vaisnava community.... It is not that woman cannot be acarya.” (Conversation 6/29/72)
Prof. O'Connell: Is it possible, Swamiji, for a woman to be a guru in the line of disciplic succession?
Prabhupada: Yes. Jahnava-devi was Nityananda's wife. She became. If she is able to go to the highest perfection of life, why it is not possible to become guru? But, not so many. Actually one who has attained the perfection, she can become guru. But man or woman, unless one has attained the perfection.... Yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya. The qualification of guru is that he must be fully cognizant of the science of Krsna. Then he or she can become guru. Yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei guru haya. In our material world is it any prohibition that woman cannot become professor? If she is qualified, she can become professor. What is the wrong there? She must be qualified. That is the position. So similarly, if the woman understands Krsna consciousness perfectly, she can become guru.” (Conversation 6/18/76)
In one of Srila Prabhupada’s letters to his disciple Hamsaduta in 1969, he states, “I want that all of my spiritual sons and daughters will inherit this title of Bhaktivedanta, so that the family transcendental diploma will continue through the generations. Those possessing the title of Bhaktivedanta will be allowed to initiate disciples. Maybe by 1975, all of my disciples will be allowed to initiate and increase the numbers of the generations.”
These statements seem to verify that female guruhood can indeed be supported by both the Acharya and the Disciplic Succession. However, I think the problem here may be the difference between our definition of guru, and Srila Prabhupada’s definition of guru. Srila Prabhupada’s statements seem to center on the spiritual wealth of Krishna Consciousness that he wanted to “continue through the generations” and increase "the numbers of the generations.”
Problems arise when our Iskcon definition of guru becomes more like “little kings” or “feudal lords” competing with one another for disciples, power, money, and fame. Srila Prabhupada’s definition of guru is clearly a spiritual one, one that focuses on teaching and inspiring spiritual aspirants along the path to Godhead.
Heralding an era of female gurus does seem to threaten some of the male disciples. It seems there may be some hesitancy on the part of insecure males due to their own feelings of inner worth, or feelings of insecurity regarding the superiority of their “maleness.” We hope it will be possible to get past this. The important thing is to live in the times that we find ourselves, and try to progress and promote Krishna consciousness however we can. That was always Srila Prabhupada’s perspective. He was always focused on getting the message of Lord Chaitanya out in the world, not on which person did it.
Here is one example of the times that we live in. One young devotee lady, second generation, Tulsi Gabbard, from Hawaii, was just recently elected to the US Congress in Washington D. C. President Obama endorsed and backed her campaign prior to the election. At her January inauguration, Tulsi will be sworn in on Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad Gita As It Is, Original Edition, as she publicly declares that she is a Hindu and a vegetarian. This is the kind of preaching work that will open up fields of interest all over the world--what to speak of in America. And from a spiritual perspective, just having people chanting the name “Tulsi” grants benefit. During the campaign, our highways were papered with signs and billboards bearing the words, VOTE TULSI.COM. This, I assure you, would delight Srila Prabhupada!
Folks, I think its time we move into the 21st century. As Srila Prabhupada once told an agitated brahmachary, if it bothers you to be around ladies, you should go to the forest! So my overall opinion is this: female gurus are inevitable. It will happen sooner or later. It is already happening in other spiritual lines; it is only a matter of time before it happens in our line. Perhaps it is just another consideration of Kali Yuga, and just doesn’t line up with our Vedic ideals, but what does? Srila Prabhupada was far more concerned with spreading Krishna Consciousness than sticking to ancient traditions.
He saw the need of the times, and he stepped forward into the 21st century. He initiated his female disciples with Gayatri mantra, encouraged them to perform arotiks and Deity worship, and to manage temples when needed. He saw that girls are educated in the same ways as boys in the Western countries, and instead of trying to suppress that, he encouraged his female disciples to do whatever they excelled in--whether it was art, music, Deity worship, public relations, management, or whatever. It was much later, due to the anti-woman sentiment of a few agitated leaders, that Iskcon became so lop-sided and averse to the spiritual welfare of the women and children.
In 1968, Srila Prabhupada did in fact list two of his female disciples to serve on the original GBC (Yamuna devi, and myself, Govinda dasi) but the opposition by some of his senior men prevented this. (Too bad--it could have saved millions in lawsuits and bad PR from the child abuse cases.) Now, years later, we see that there is at least one senior woman disciple on the GBC, as Srila Prabhupada originally intended.
However, in this guruhood issue, I see the real danger is the dark horse called ambition.
Srila Prabhupada repeatedly stressed that there is no place in spiritual life for personal ambition. So anyone, male or female, who decides to step in line for guruhood, should deeply question his or her inner motives. Is he or she inspired by a genuine desire to serve Srila Prabhupada, and to serve others, or is there some personal ambition lurking beneath the layers? Is he or she inspired by the desire for: Fame? Money? Adoration? Security? He or she must answer confidently, that he/she is not deceiving his/herself, but can actually uplift lost souls and place them at the lotus feet of the Lord. He or she must also be able take on the disciples’ past karmas, and purify them without losing his or her own purity. This is the real test.
Not some “rubber stamp guru approval.” That hasn’t worked in the past, and it won’t work in the future.
I myself am very “old-school.” I still believe in the old-fashioned philosophy that Srila Prabhupada taught us, and that his Guru Maharaj taught him: That is: “Don’t anyone try to become guru prematurely, just go on with your service. Whoever is meant to become guru will come out automatically in time.” And that already is happening; many have come, and many have gone.
There are teachers, there are guides, and there are various types of gurus. There is a vast difference between such teachers, guides, and gurus--and the Acharya, like Srila Prabhupada. There is no harm in teaching and guiding others; but there can be great harm done if one accepts disciples prematurely, harm both to the “fallen guru” and to the disciples. This is the great danger.
If there is a need to fulfill, that is, people want diksha so they feel they “belong” to the “club” or the institution, we must be very clear on what type of guru is giving that kind of diksha. And by all means, we should not place so much importance on any Iskcon guru who seems to eclipse the importance of Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada is the Master Guru of us all. We are like small moons orbiting around the sun of Srila Prabhupada; he is giving us the spiritual light and we are reflecting that light into the world. We must always remember from where our light is coming, and pray to Krishna to always remain humble in his presence.
All this, and more, is why, my initial reaction remains, “Who, in their right mind, would want to take up the role of diksha guru?”
Putanas of the world by Srila Saraswati Thakura
Waiting for the second coming of Jesus?
Enver Ajonivic has been telling me that there is some order for us to wait for the next acharya to appear, and the ritviks are atheists for not accepting this order, but he has so far not shown me -- where this order was given? By the way this is Rocana's idea, we have to wait, and Enver has become a big fan of Rocana recently. Where were we told to wait for the next coming of Jesus or etc.? ys pd
Care giver needed for elderly Mataji
Care Givers for Padyavali Devi Dasi (ACBSP)
Hare Krishna!
PAMHO AGTSP
Padyavali Devi Dasi, is a long time fully dedicated senior disciple of Srila
Prabhupada who has been serving his ISKCON mission, mostly in Canada, since
the mid 70's. Her health is and has been poor for some time now and we are
looking for qualified female (preferred) care givers to help care for her.
M. Padyavali has been in the local hospital (Burnaby General) since November
7th, when she became unwell and was hallucinating. Since that time the
doctors have been working on stabilizing her medications, particularly the
ones for Parkinson's Disease, which can cause hallucinations if not given in
the right dosages. She is much better and will be ready for discharge
shortly.
We have been looking for appropriate care for M. Padyavali in her own home
but the reality has been that no matter how hard we try, the necessary
funding is not in place nor have we been successful in finding sufficient
care givers.
We are still advertising for female devotee care givers so that she can
return to her own home.
However, she cannot return without appropriate care in place, nor can any
"potential" Government funding be available until we have the appropriate
care givers in place.
M. Padyavali was advised by the doctors involved in her discharge, that if
we cannot arrange for the necessary funds and care givers she will have to
stay in a long-term care Gov't run facility. She is already on the list for
a bed. This is not an appropriate environment for any devotee.
Regarding care funding, we are trying different avenues for some Gov't
funding which may or not be available and if any will be in a limited
amount.
Any interested parties, please contact Bhavani Devi Dasi at
bhavani.sda@shaw.ca
Your aspiring servant,
Jaya Govinda Dasa
ISKCON Vancouver, Canada
Did Indradyumna mj. steal antique deity?
DEVOTEES IN PURI CRYING OVER STOLEN DEITY
Namaste jay Jagannath. I came in contact with this page and read my name ... mandalibhadra dasa (teo matteo) I can testify with also issuing evidence prove that Indradyumna swami years ago 'at all costs wanted to take possession of a narashinga deva murty, and bring out from an ancient temple more than 300 years old, categorically I refused to help Indradyumna sw, to such nasty activity by give big amount of money to bribe the two priests and make this trade.
I came to know that the bad business was being completed successfully by a devotee named Madhavavanda das, and American devotee (of Gaura Govinda maharaja) who lives in Bhubeneswar Orissa (from goplaju publication), and a close friend of Indradyumna named BB Govinda and Siva Ram. The same Madhavavanda made me discover a second pair of Murty that had been sold, radha and krishna, more antiques of that Siva rama SW.
That purchase from the temple of Svarupa Damodhara Goswami at puri was made, and so after that I started a long battle with the windmills (posting a wide range of evidence on this same site Facebook, also I was very ridiculed by their disciples, attracting against me a good deal of antipathy .. and threats.
The same indradyuma swami sent me a voice message by the President of the temple of Florence italy (that was when we were in Mayapur and he had tried a way of compromise) saying that if I pulled out this thing he would put me as his accomplice. Today I can 100% say that these so-called swamis love to show a collection for their personal gratification, by restricting the darsana of these valuable deities' to the whole world especially the Vaisnavas.
This' although I have never made a serious complaint to the police, but I always i have complaints with the authorities' institutional vaisnava and devotee, i was thing why make arrest them? That those swamis are still preaching krishna consciousness! This has been my thought if I denounced Indrayumna before at that time today he would not have so many followers because for this offense would be served at least 10 years in prison, and 'expulsion for life outside India. If someone today intends to do so I can testify. I like to remember you all that there is a special team that is able to recover stolen Murty after many years...in this case Indradyumna would remain locked in jaipur.... Right now.....
This' although I have never made a serious complaint to the police, but I always i have complaints with the authorities' institutional vaisnava and devotee, i was thing why make arrest them? That those swamis are still preaching krishna consciousness! This has been my thought if I denounced Indrayumna before at that time today he would not have so many followers because for this offense would be served at least 10 years in prison, and 'expulsion for life outside India. If someone today intends to do so I can testify. I like to remember you all that there is a special team that is able to recover stolen Murty after many years...in this case Indradyumna would remain locked in jaipur.... Right now.....
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Please note this conversation Indradyumna swami that I downloaded it from google This was the first version from google INDADYUMNA SW ADMIT: My Life and Soul 250 year old deity of Lakshmi-Nrimsha was stolen. I Took Longer to do my puja today as everyone is down at the Woodstock site setting up.
Some of my Lord's photos. Indradyumna Swami. this and 'self in a conversation Indrad.swmi give as proof of His false ego' Admitting That They Have foolishly in possession of deity Than 250 years old, when I began to frequent battle indradyuma and his company have done everything possible to eliminate the traces later appeared on google this.
There's a nice shot of Indradyumna Swami's Radha-vallabha, a deity worshipped for over 250 years. The gallery took me about half an hour to create. I'd like to hear your feedback. Ekadasi & Summer Solstice http://www.iskcon.net.au/2004/12/21#a1719 After further research I still retained some evidence ... one from a disciple of Siva ram swami. Siva ram where she admits that he has personally owned a Murty 400 years old. Another prove is that .bb govinda swami where he writes that the Deity of narashinga he was' stolen in the airport this was write in internet......
*I'll try to look for other evidence but I believe that my confession is more than enough with the photos of the temple indicated
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now read pleas the sense re irresponsibility of these swami far as it goes this is Restrictions on Exports from Indian governement..
ANTIQUES
Antiques which include sculpture, painting or other works of art and crafts, illustrative of science, art, crafts, religion of bygone ages and of historical interest which have been in existence for not less than one hundred years may not be exported out of India. Manuscripts, or other documents of scientific, historical, literary or aesthetic value in existence for not less than seventy-five years; art treasures-not necessarily antiques but of artistic and aesthetic value, also cannot be exported out of India. For clarification on the antiquity of an artifact, tourists can contact the following authorities and get information on the Acts and Rules governing Antiquities and Art Treasures Act, 1972.
New Delhi:
Director General, Archaeological Survey of India,
Janpath, New Delhi-110011
Telephone: 3019451, 3018879.
http://asi.nic.in/pdf_data/8.pdf
asi.nic.i************************************************************>>>>The Skanda Purana Warns That No One Should or sell by salagrama sila. One who puts a price on a salgram sila, sila sells to salgrama, ITS Gives His opinion on value, or examines one whit to estimate ITS salt value, all Such people will live in hell until time of universal destruction from Sri Padmanabha Goswami Vrindavana ....
4 minutes ago ·Like
Teo Matteo EVIDENCE FROM Journal of Religious Culture
Journal für Religionskultur
Ed. by / Hrsg. von Edmund Weber
in Association with / in Zusammenarbeit mit Matthias Benad
Institute for Irenics / Institut für Wissenschaftliche Irenik
Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universität Frankfurt am Main
ISSN 1434-5935- © E.Webe
Journal of Religious Culture - Shaligrams - Padmanabha Gosai:
http://www.uni-frankfurt.de/fb06/institute/irenik/relkultur33.html I'm sorry for my English please try the correction o all glories to Srila Prabhupada jay jagannath
ANTIQUES
Antiques which include sculpture, painting or other works of art and crafts, illustrative of science, art, crafts, religion of bygone ages and of historical interest which have been in existence for not less than one hundred years may not be exported out of India. Manuscripts, or other documents of scientific, historical, literary or aesthetic value in existence for not less than seventy-five years; art treasures-not necessarily antiques but of artistic and aesthetic value, also cannot be exported out of India. For clarification on the antiquity of an artifact, tourists can contact the following authorities and get information on the Acts and Rules governing Antiquities and Art Treasures Act, 1972.
New Delhi:
Director General, Archaeological Survey of India,
Janpath, New Delhi-110011
Telephone: 3019451, 3018879.
http://asi.nic.in/pdf_data/8.pdf
asi.nic.i************************************************************>>>>The Skanda Purana Warns That No One Should or sell by salagrama sila. One who puts a price on a salgram sila, sila sells to salgrama, ITS Gives His opinion on value, or examines one whit to estimate ITS salt value, all Such people will live in hell until time of universal destruction from Sri Padmanabha Goswami Vrindavana ....
4 minutes ago ·Like
Teo Matteo EVIDENCE FROM Journal of Religious Culture
Journal für Religionskultur
Ed. by / Hrsg. von Edmund Weber
in Association with / in Zusammenarbeit mit Matthias Benad
Institute for Irenics / Institut für Wissenschaftliche Irenik
Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universität Frankfurt am Main
ISSN 1434-5935- © E.Webe
Journal of Religious Culture - Shaligrams - Padmanabha Gosai:
http://www.uni-frankfurt.de/fb06/institute/irenik/relkultur33.html I'm sorry for my English please try the correction o all glories to Srila Prabhupada jay jagannath
Friday, November 23, 2012
Thursday, November 22, 2012
Gaura Hari dasa promoting Radhanatha swami?
CHANDRA SHAKER: Yes I have spent the last two days discussing this on a thread, and Gura Hari and his group now promote Radhanath swami as a great devotee, even suggesting he is the new Acharya, which due to my offenses and lack of spiritual advancment, I am unable to see...lol. GH craves attention and followers and will adopt any pseudo philosophy to meet this end, rather than present Prabhupada's teachings they distort the actual truth, ignore the facts and pretend they are advanced devotees on a platform above everyone else.
Wednesday, November 21, 2012
My guru garland is not big enough!
This is what we cannot comprehend, people are always criticizing us, but only sometimes or not at all criticizing these rogue gurus! Have we not seen enough already!
Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Grass roots process is best
PADA: Actually we are taking ISKCON back one brick at a time, one person at a time, one building at a time, it is happening. Small wonder the GBC's favorite topic is "the ritviks" because they know our idea is catching on. And when we convince even one person, like we did recently when a temple devotee talked to me for about 2 hours and he was totally shocked, he will gradually influence his other devotee friends and family and he will convert more and more people over time, ok a few at a time here and there.
Right now the GBC itself seems to be dwindling and bogging down with side tracked topics like, "Should we vote in a bunch of women gurus," with a big fight over that issue between Bhakti Vikas swami's GHQ camp and Ajamila's "feminist movement" and so on.
And meanwhile Radhanatha is under attack from various other GBC for being a mayavada and so on. Even some of the prominent women in ISKCON are attacking all sorts of the GBC's big leaders right now warning about all of this as deviation and so on.
So this means they are weakening as we continue to grow. In general, I do not think there will be one major swoop where we win in an instant, it is a gradual war of attrition. As we grow, and they diminish, we are taking over gradually.
That is called "grass roots take over" and that is really what I favor for the following reason: At the same time its good we are not taking over in an instant, we do not have sufficient manpower to manage even small programs hardly at present.
Even if the bogus GBC theoretically handed us over the keys today, we could not take over much of anything right now without enough people. So its better we develop gradually as grass roots and take over in manageable chunks, smaller bits we can chew one piece at a time.
If we try to take over a big project and then the deity situation etc. falls apart and so on, this will be another major mess and we will be blamed badly for that. So I am happy with the way its going now, we are gaining a few people here and there, so we are building a force that can take over gradually.
And even if we cannot take over in the end, then our force will become independent and dominant as we "out preach" them, just as Srila Prabhupada did with the Gaudiya Matha, he simply out did them and he won by default. So we will ALSO win by default if we are doing a better job, more and more people will come to us. And they are coming because our idea makes more sense. That is already happening, hence: grass roots is another form of revolution, but its slow motion, which is what works better.
For example, we have the only temple in one South Pacific area, the guru there told his people not to come to us, but since we have the only program there, the ISKCON folks come anyway, and they are adopting our ideas. So this gradual grass roots is the best way to do things, if we get too much too soon, we will not be able to manage and it will make us look foolish. We should focus on making our own small but efficient independent process and build brick by brick, that is the best process for us at the moment. Too much too soon will not work, Krishna is already arranging grass roots and that is the best thing anyway. At least, that is my idea. At the same time I am always ready to use our program to forward a better idea, if someone has one good one and can show us how that works in practice, we will promote it. Otherwise our idea is working already, because its producing practical result. ys pd
Right now the GBC itself seems to be dwindling and bogging down with side tracked topics like, "Should we vote in a bunch of women gurus," with a big fight over that issue between Bhakti Vikas swami's GHQ camp and Ajamila's "feminist movement" and so on.
And meanwhile Radhanatha is under attack from various other GBC for being a mayavada and so on. Even some of the prominent women in ISKCON are attacking all sorts of the GBC's big leaders right now warning about all of this as deviation and so on.
So this means they are weakening as we continue to grow. In general, I do not think there will be one major swoop where we win in an instant, it is a gradual war of attrition. As we grow, and they diminish, we are taking over gradually.
That is called "grass roots take over" and that is really what I favor for the following reason: At the same time its good we are not taking over in an instant, we do not have sufficient manpower to manage even small programs hardly at present.
Even if the bogus GBC theoretically handed us over the keys today, we could not take over much of anything right now without enough people. So its better we develop gradually as grass roots and take over in manageable chunks, smaller bits we can chew one piece at a time.
If we try to take over a big project and then the deity situation etc. falls apart and so on, this will be another major mess and we will be blamed badly for that. So I am happy with the way its going now, we are gaining a few people here and there, so we are building a force that can take over gradually.
And even if we cannot take over in the end, then our force will become independent and dominant as we "out preach" them, just as Srila Prabhupada did with the Gaudiya Matha, he simply out did them and he won by default. So we will ALSO win by default if we are doing a better job, more and more people will come to us. And they are coming because our idea makes more sense. That is already happening, hence: grass roots is another form of revolution, but its slow motion, which is what works better.
For example, we have the only temple in one South Pacific area, the guru there told his people not to come to us, but since we have the only program there, the ISKCON folks come anyway, and they are adopting our ideas. So this gradual grass roots is the best way to do things, if we get too much too soon, we will not be able to manage and it will make us look foolish. We should focus on making our own small but efficient independent process and build brick by brick, that is the best process for us at the moment. Too much too soon will not work, Krishna is already arranging grass roots and that is the best thing anyway. At least, that is my idea. At the same time I am always ready to use our program to forward a better idea, if someone has one good one and can show us how that works in practice, we will promote it. Otherwise our idea is working already, because its producing practical result. ys pd
Prabhupada forum in Russian language
http://guruprabhupada.forum24.ru/?1-2-0-00000069-000-0-0-1343003652
Форум последователей Его Божественной Милости А.Ч. Бхактиведанты Свами Прабхупады
=================================
Форум последователей Его Божественной Милости А.Ч. Бхактиведанты Свами Прабхупады
=================================
Sunday, November 18, 2012
How to maintain the parampara (by Vidura dasa)
How to maintain the Parampara
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition
Madhya-lila 7.128-130 - The Lord's Tour of South India:
TEXT 128
yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
TRANSLATION
"Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa as they are given in the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land."
Purport
This is the sublime mission of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. [...] If one is a little literate and can read the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that is so much the better. These works are now available in an English translation and are done very authoritatively to appeal to all classes of men. [...] The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to elevate human society to the perfection of life by pursuing the method described by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in His advice to the brāhmaṇa Kūrma. That is, one should stay at home, chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and preach the instructions of Kṛṣṇa as they are given in the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
TRANSLATION
"Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa as they are given in the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land."
Purport
This is the sublime mission of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. [...] If one is a little literate and can read the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that is so much the better. These works are now available in an English translation and are done very authoritatively to appeal to all classes of men. [...] The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to elevate human society to the perfection of life by pursuing the method described by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in His advice to the brāhmaṇa Kūrma. That is, one should stay at home, chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and preach the instructions of Kṛṣṇa as they are given in the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
"Simply read my books and repeat what I have written then your preaching will be perfect."
Letter to: Ksirodakasayi : 75-09-04
"There is nothing new to be said. Whatever I had to say, I have already said in my books. Now you must try to understand it and continue with your endeavors. Whether I am present or not does not matter."
Arrival Conversation, Vrindavan, 17/5/77
Reporter: What will happen to the movement in the United States when you die?
Srila Prabhupada: I will never die [Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!] (laughter) I will live from my books and you will utilize.
Press Conference, 16/7/75, San Francisco
"The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This is what I want.”
Letter to Madhudvisa, 4/8/1975
“I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and all the members of the Society, they’re supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually.”
Radio interview, March 12, 1968, San Francisco
"I also thank you very much for your appreciation of my books and letters and for my speaking in the meetings. They are not my words, as I have repeatedly informed you that I am simply the bearer of the message from Lord Caitanya through the disciplic succession and I do not make any addition or subtraction. Similarly, if you all carry these words successively, then the transcendental parampara system will be exactly maintained and people in general will be benefited."
Letter to: Bhagavan -- Los Angeles 10 January, 1970
Guest: Are you planning to choose a successor?
Srila Prabhupada: It is already successful.
Room conversation, 12/2/75 Mexico
Saturday, November 17, 2012
Srila Prabhupada disappearance Pondichery India
Not sure whose temple this here, but this is a nice rememberance of Srila Prabhupada!
Chitralekha dasi : women gurus problem
Fearful for the Future of ISKCON
BY: CHITRALEKHA DEVI DASI
Further discussion with Ajamila das on the issue of Female Diksa Gurus.
Dear Respected Ajamila Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. My comments below. You wrote:
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Ajamila (das) ACBSP (Goloka Books - UK) wrote:
Dear Citralekha d.d. Hare Krishna!! Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Your letter is an eye opener for sure, showing the perspective from a woman as yourself that a man cannot so easily see, your summary said it all:
BY: CHITRALEKHA DEVI DASI
Further discussion with Ajamila das on the issue of Female Diksa Gurus.
Dear Respected Ajamila Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. My comments below. You wrote:
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Ajamila (das) ACBSP (Goloka Books - UK) wrote:
Dear Citralekha d.d. Hare Krishna!! Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Your letter is an eye opener for sure, showing the perspective from a woman as yourself that a man cannot so easily see, your summary said it all:
>> To conclude, from this soul's (in a female body) point of view this whole
>> idea of female diksha guru is the essence of stupidity, a disaster for
>> ISKCON and Lord Caitanya's preaching mission.
I agree with you that female diksha gurus for ISKCON would be a disaster IF the wrong women are allowed to initiate. It appears you have not met any woman sufficiently qualified to be diksha guru, but have you met every woman in ISKCON?
I'm not going to name anyone but if betting was not against the regulative principles I would bet my bottom dollar that I could find at least a hand full in the big ISKCON world who would be sufficiently qualified and would honour ISKCON and Lord Chaitanya's preaching movement.
We don't need a Gangamata lime liberated soul, we only need a woman who has good sadhana, has attained nistha, is learned, a preacher, and can match in their own way what our existing male gurus in good standing are doing.
I find this disturbing. If Srila Prabhupada said it was a rare thing and that he had to strain his memory to come up with one example there must have been a reason for the rarity. And now we think that we know better that Bhaktisiddhanta who said we should not imitate exceptional cases. Now you want to ignore what Srila Prabhupada said. Why then for the last 500 plus years in bona fide sampradayas (not talking about sahajiya and apasampradayas who do all nonsense) have there been so few female diksha gurus. So few that HH Sridhar Svami said they could be counted on the fingers of one hand. And that these few female diksa gurus were actually exceptional. And why in our parampara (I don't care about other sahajiya apasampradayas) there are no female diksha gurus. There are none on the list of 32 published in Bhagavad Gita As It Is. Now you are saying we can just brush all this aside. This makes me very fearful for the future of ISKCON if we think we (who have so many scandals behind us) are wiser than our acaryas when in fact we are fools and ready to step into a minefield.
Another thing I find very strange is that the general body of devotees are not informed ahead of time as to who is being nominated to be a diksha guru unlike sannyasa candidates who are put on public waiting lists. I never knew till much later that Drutakarma and the late Purnachandra Goswami were diksha gurus till after they had started to initiate. Why all this secrecy?
I mention this because I just found out that the whole reason for this recent hue and cry about female diksha gurus was because another woman was secretly nominated. On inquiry I found it was Mother Narayani dd. This came as a real shock for me because just a few years ago when I was in Vrndavana the news was that Narayani mataji was totally desperate to get married and had even begged Kurma Rupa Prabhu (cow protection) to marry her. So how is it that a woman who is a desperado for male association is now fit to be a diksa guru? All I can say is this "Ladies you better lock up your husbands and sons when Narayani dd comes to town."
And if you don't think women can exploit their positions then here is another "eye opener" for you:
Boys on Street Sexually Exploited by Women
and female teachers who really love their students:
Female Pedophiles
Considering that some women are teaching the brahmacaris "Bhakti sastra" courses at the VIHE (reported to me by a brahmacari who was being taught by Prasanta dd in 2009) this can only lead to trouble. Or do you actually think that it is only men who have sex desires and we women never think of such things? As I said before "you men are such simple things." The fact that the leaders in ISKCON are not extra vigilant to protect our vital mission for the upliftment of humanity is really depressing.
Yours in the service of the Vaisnavas,
Citralekha dd
>> idea of female diksha guru is the essence of stupidity, a disaster for
>> ISKCON and Lord Caitanya's preaching mission.
I agree with you that female diksha gurus for ISKCON would be a disaster IF the wrong women are allowed to initiate. It appears you have not met any woman sufficiently qualified to be diksha guru, but have you met every woman in ISKCON?
I'm not going to name anyone but if betting was not against the regulative principles I would bet my bottom dollar that I could find at least a hand full in the big ISKCON world who would be sufficiently qualified and would honour ISKCON and Lord Chaitanya's preaching movement.
We don't need a Gangamata lime liberated soul, we only need a woman who has good sadhana, has attained nistha, is learned, a preacher, and can match in their own way what our existing male gurus in good standing are doing.
I find this disturbing. If Srila Prabhupada said it was a rare thing and that he had to strain his memory to come up with one example there must have been a reason for the rarity. And now we think that we know better that Bhaktisiddhanta who said we should not imitate exceptional cases. Now you want to ignore what Srila Prabhupada said. Why then for the last 500 plus years in bona fide sampradayas (not talking about sahajiya and apasampradayas who do all nonsense) have there been so few female diksha gurus. So few that HH Sridhar Svami said they could be counted on the fingers of one hand. And that these few female diksa gurus were actually exceptional. And why in our parampara (I don't care about other sahajiya apasampradayas) there are no female diksha gurus. There are none on the list of 32 published in Bhagavad Gita As It Is. Now you are saying we can just brush all this aside. This makes me very fearful for the future of ISKCON if we think we (who have so many scandals behind us) are wiser than our acaryas when in fact we are fools and ready to step into a minefield.
Another thing I find very strange is that the general body of devotees are not informed ahead of time as to who is being nominated to be a diksha guru unlike sannyasa candidates who are put on public waiting lists. I never knew till much later that Drutakarma and the late Purnachandra Goswami were diksha gurus till after they had started to initiate. Why all this secrecy?
I mention this because I just found out that the whole reason for this recent hue and cry about female diksha gurus was because another woman was secretly nominated. On inquiry I found it was Mother Narayani dd. This came as a real shock for me because just a few years ago when I was in Vrndavana the news was that Narayani mataji was totally desperate to get married and had even begged Kurma Rupa Prabhu (cow protection) to marry her. So how is it that a woman who is a desperado for male association is now fit to be a diksa guru? All I can say is this "Ladies you better lock up your husbands and sons when Narayani dd comes to town."
And if you don't think women can exploit their positions then here is another "eye opener" for you:
Boys on Street Sexually Exploited by Women
and female teachers who really love their students:
Female Pedophiles
Considering that some women are teaching the brahmacaris "Bhakti sastra" courses at the VIHE (reported to me by a brahmacari who was being taught by Prasanta dd in 2009) this can only lead to trouble. Or do you actually think that it is only men who have sex desires and we women never think of such things? As I said before "you men are such simple things." The fact that the leaders in ISKCON are not extra vigilant to protect our vital mission for the upliftment of humanity is really depressing.
Yours in the service of the Vaisnavas,
Citralekha dd
Srila Prabhupada disappearance day
===============================================
http://www.iskcontimes.com/Disappearance-day-of-Srila-Prabhupada
===============================================
SONG FOR DEPARTED VAISHNAVAS: http://youtu.be/ZuOCPuPjH5Y
================================================
http://www.iskcontimes.com/Disappearance-day-of-Srila-Prabhupada
===============================================
SONG FOR DEPARTED VAISHNAVAS: http://youtu.be/ZuOCPuPjH5Y
================================================
Friday, November 16, 2012
PADA Letter to Enver 11/16/12
Dear Enver,
1) The charge that Madhu Pandit "stole the Bangalore property" is because he is using this property for the worship of Srila Prabhupada, and of course the child molester gurus project disagreed and they claimed he is a thief, and you agree MPD is a thief. That means you are agreeing with the molester acharyas program's view of things. I have no idea why you accept any of the "facts" and legal arguments provided by the molester acharyas program, or its lawyers, courts and so on?
And worse, you are also quoting Rocana, who ALSO accepts the molester acharyas program's "legal facts," because he is more in favor of the molester acharyas program and he is anti-ritvik. Why are these people our authorities? At all?
2) You say you accept the court's claims. You accept a court that says child molester gurus programs can enter their court and validly charge anyone with anything? This is a bogus court, but you and Rocana say you accept the claims of this court? Why are you accepting a court that validates a homosexual and pedophile guru process? Rocana's writers says the same thing as you, the court has "got the goods" on MPD, except if they did, why have they never arrested him since 1997? That means they do not have the goods, and why would we accept the statements of the molester acharyas program, or the bogus courts that supports them, anyway?
3) You and Rocana can accept a court that allows pedophile acharya's programs in their court as valid, whereas I do not accept such parties as valid. You and Rocana are quoting the legal side from the pedophile acharyas program, why are they valid? And why should we accept such a court, Rocana and you never explain?
4) You said that the Madhu Pandit program is making money, false, the temple here has $4,500 monthly expenses, the leaders here have to pay the rest because they do not get enough donations to pay these expenses.
5) You still have not explained why we should listen to Rocana when he has no program at all? Is this the example we need to follow, no temples, no deities, no preaching, no harinamas, no making devotees, no nothing?
6) Moreover you say we need to listen to Rocana, who says our worship of Srila Prabhupad program is apa-siddhanta and poisonous. That means you are publicly and openly promoting a severe offender. Therefore, what kind of discrimination do you have is the real question?
7) Madhu Pandit and his people are getting out the story of the molester gurus, the poison issue, the changed books issue, and so many other issues, all over the public media in India. They are exposing these bogus gurus to millions of people, whereas you and Rocana have zero impact on the media in India. Zero. The story is getting out because of these people, and they are risking their lives doing that. You support cowards like Rocana who backed off the poison case. Well we support the brave people who are getting the job done. Waiting for you folks, this job would never get done, ever.
ys pd
======================
Dear Enver, You said Rocana has something important to say, and he says worship of Prabhupada is poison. That makes him invalid. Rocana says a court in India that accepts homosexual pedophile acharyas is a valid court, and you said you agreed with their legal claims, that means you accept a court that allows homosexual pedophile acharyas in the door in the first place.
1) The charge that Madhu Pandit "stole the Bangalore property" is because he is using this property for the worship of Srila Prabhupada, and of course the child molester gurus project disagreed and they claimed he is a thief, and you agree MPD is a thief. That means you are agreeing with the molester acharyas program's view of things. I have no idea why you accept any of the "facts" and legal arguments provided by the molester acharyas program, or its lawyers, courts and so on?
And worse, you are also quoting Rocana, who ALSO accepts the molester acharyas program's "legal facts," because he is more in favor of the molester acharyas program and he is anti-ritvik. Why are these people our authorities? At all?
2) You say you accept the court's claims. You accept a court that says child molester gurus programs can enter their court and validly charge anyone with anything? This is a bogus court, but you and Rocana say you accept the claims of this court? Why are you accepting a court that validates a homosexual and pedophile guru process? Rocana's writers says the same thing as you, the court has "got the goods" on MPD, except if they did, why have they never arrested him since 1997? That means they do not have the goods, and why would we accept the statements of the molester acharyas program, or the bogus courts that supports them, anyway?
3) You and Rocana can accept a court that allows pedophile acharya's programs in their court as valid, whereas I do not accept such parties as valid. You and Rocana are quoting the legal side from the pedophile acharyas program, why are they valid? And why should we accept such a court, Rocana and you never explain?
4) You said that the Madhu Pandit program is making money, false, the temple here has $4,500 monthly expenses, the leaders here have to pay the rest because they do not get enough donations to pay these expenses.
5) You still have not explained why we should listen to Rocana when he has no program at all? Is this the example we need to follow, no temples, no deities, no preaching, no harinamas, no making devotees, no nothing?
6) Moreover you say we need to listen to Rocana, who says our worship of Srila Prabhupad program is apa-siddhanta and poisonous. That means you are publicly and openly promoting a severe offender. Therefore, what kind of discrimination do you have is the real question?
7) Madhu Pandit and his people are getting out the story of the molester gurus, the poison issue, the changed books issue, and so many other issues, all over the public media in India. They are exposing these bogus gurus to millions of people, whereas you and Rocana have zero impact on the media in India. Zero. The story is getting out because of these people, and they are risking their lives doing that. You support cowards like Rocana who backed off the poison case. Well we support the brave people who are getting the job done. Waiting for you folks, this job would never get done, ever.
ys pd
======================
Dear Enver, You said Rocana has something important to say, and he says worship of Prabhupada is poison. That makes him invalid. Rocana says a court in India that accepts homosexual pedophile acharyas is a valid court, and you said you agreed with their legal claims, that means you accept a court that allows homosexual pedophile acharyas in the door in the first place.
Even a 5 years old child knows your logic is bogus, how can we accept a court that validates child molester messiahs? I do not accept such fools into a court. Then, when we said the court is promoting homosexual pedophile acharyas, you tried to say Srila Prabhupada would agree with such a court. This is trying to link him to your and Rocana's bogus claims.
The criminal act here is Rocana: accepting homosexual pedophile gurus into the court in the first place, and that is why Rocana is for that court, and now you are citing him. The leader of the people who are propping up the pedophile acharyas court, and you are quoting him?
You said Madhu Pandit program is making money, its not, the leaders here have to make up the difference in not enough donations. You said our program is bogus, but you have nothing to replace it with, which is what Rocana says, you are talking like him, quoting him and so on and so forth. So you can work with him, and have nothing. We are also having a nice festival for Srila Prabhupada here at the Sunnyvale temple, and all the ritvik temples like Bangalore, whereas Rocana is having, nothing nowhere.
And he is our authority? He is simply envious that we have something and he has nothing, and that is why he is promoting the pedophile acharyas in court claim against us. And that is why he says worship of Prabhupada is poison, he is envious of Prabhupada as well as us. He should not be cited as an authority, and the fact that you are citing him will discredit you along with him. Anyway, this is what our people are doing, while your people, oh I forgot, you have no people.http://www.iskcontimes.com/Disappearance-day-of-Srila-Prabhupada
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11/17/12 Update: I never said the Akshaya program was ordered? I said it has protected them from your program, having those devotees going to jail and having no offerings to Prabhupada going on today worldwide. So thank goodness for Akshaya Patra, or you folks would shut everything down and have nothing. You idea is to have nothing, plain and simple, and that is why you are with Rocana. All glories to nothingness pada. Whatever the Bangalore folks had to do to protect themselves from the GBC gurus and their cheer leaders like Rocana had to be done. And Akshaya Patra is the first ever good publicity Krishna and ISKCON ever got in the West in 40 years, another reason you people do not like it, it FINALLY gives Krishna a good name after Rocana's supporting the bogus gurus gave KRISHNA a bad name for the past 40 years. Yes, Krishna and ISKCON finally got some good publicity from Akahaya Patra, so you guys immediately want to shut it down, that means you want the bad publicity for Krishna to win. That is what I thought you were saying, you are against Krishna getting good publicity like the GBC, Rocana etc. You are with them. ys pd
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11/17/12 Update: I never said the Akshaya program was ordered? I said it has protected them from your program, having those devotees going to jail and having no offerings to Prabhupada going on today worldwide. So thank goodness for Akshaya Patra, or you folks would shut everything down and have nothing. You idea is to have nothing, plain and simple, and that is why you are with Rocana. All glories to nothingness pada. Whatever the Bangalore folks had to do to protect themselves from the GBC gurus and their cheer leaders like Rocana had to be done. And Akshaya Patra is the first ever good publicity Krishna and ISKCON ever got in the West in 40 years, another reason you people do not like it, it FINALLY gives Krishna a good name after Rocana's supporting the bogus gurus gave KRISHNA a bad name for the past 40 years. Yes, Krishna and ISKCON finally got some good publicity from Akahaya Patra, so you guys immediately want to shut it down, that means you want the bad publicity for Krishna to win. That is what I thought you were saying, you are against Krishna getting good publicity like the GBC, Rocana etc. You are with them. ys pd
Rocana attacks HDG's worship as "poisonous"
Ritviks and ISKCON: The Line is Beginning to Blur
BY: SUN STAFF (Rocana dasa)
Nov 12, 2012 — CANADA (SUN) — Over the years, the Ritvik-vada adherents have always made an effort to boldly differentiate themselves from the GBC-run ISKCON. Pointing to the many ways in which ISKCON is compromising Srila Prabhupada's standards, they have tirelessly preached the notion that bogus guru-tattva philosophy is at the bottom of all the problems, and if ISKCON would just get on board with their Ritvik-vada, everything would come right.
[PADA: No one ever said "everything will be all right"? When Srila Prabhupada was being worshiped in the 1970s -- that means everything was all right? No! Rocana is dreaming in colors? Sorry! It is a well known fact -- that EVEN when Srila Prabhupada was here AND he was being worshiped, there were STILL major problems manifesting all the time. Hence: we never said his worship would end all "the troubles"? What we are doing is converting individuals to worship HDG, but we are not telling them "all the troubles will end" thereby? This is Rocana's foolish speculation.
What we ALWAYS said was -- even when Srila Prabhupada was here -- there were problems. HOWEVER, unless people worship a pure devotee they will not go back to Godhead. That is all we ever said. Re-establishing HDG's worship is simply a start to get things on track, we never said -- this will "make everything all right." What we are discussing is: establishing the right siddhanta, that we have to worship a pure devotee as our guru namely HDG, ... not whether or not devotees have "troubles"? For that matter, the Pandavas, Prahlad maharaja, Mother Sita and of course people like Lord Jesus had all kinds of "troubles" despite being nice devotees, are we better than they are, that we can expect no troubles at all?]
RD: But in fact, as the poisonous influence coming from ISKCON Bangalore spreads, forming little pockets of asiddhantic Ritvikism around the world, we can now see that just the opposite is true: the problems in ISKCON are not being solved by the Ritviks, but rather are being replicated.
[PADA: OK, so now Rocana says that the worship of Srila Prabhupada is "poisonous apa-siddhantic." That is what the GBC gurus say, -- as does the Gaudiya Matha etc. Worship of pure devotees is poison? Yes, Narayana Maharaja ALSO said the ritviks are poison. Rocana is just a disciple of the Gaudiya Matha. That means Rocana wants us to worship -- Rocana? He thinks he is the higher authority since he claims -- the process of worship of the pure devotee is bogus. Rocana wants us to worship his idea and not HDG's idea. Clearly Rocana is just as envious of Srila Prabhupada as are the bogus GBC's gurus, many of them ALSO say that worship of the pure devotee is poison. NOTICE: Rocana repeats some of the GBC guru's and NM's slogans, hence -- they are birds of a feather.]
RD: Climbing onto the Ritvik platform was apparently seen by Madhu Pandit das and the Bangalore leaders as a move of political expediency, and it did serve to temporarily get them out from under the fist of ISKCON leaders.
[PADA: Worship of the pure devotee is good for "political expediency"? Rocana is making Srila Prabhupada's worship into a mundane political issue. Of course, that is also what Tamal said, the Prabhupadanuga worship idea is "politics." Rocana is a disciple of Tamal. Also notice that Rocana admits his living guru idea is "living under an iron fist"? Why is Rocana promoting the main theme of the iron fisted folks against our devotees, the living guru idea? That means, Rocana is part of the iron fisted process himself.]
RD: (Except, of course, for the very costly lawsuit they've been saddled with.) But there are other drivers behind the Bangalore Ritvik phenomenon besides just guru-tattva, and two of these are Hindu Culture and Money. These two popular catalysts have been well known in the devotee community for many years.
[PADA: OK, so the ritviks are at times organizing the Hindus to help their program of worship of the pure devotee, this might be every bad -- except Rocana has no program at all? We have nothing to compare the ritvik program vs Rocana's program because -- Rocana has no temples, no devotees, no programs, no nothing. At least the ritviks have something to show for their preaching? Rocana's idea is clear, he wants to have no programs, no temples, no preaching, no books going out, nothingness? This is sunnyavada (atheist), "nothingness" is the highest ideal. The ritviks have some program at least, whereas Rocana has never had any, and that is why most of the people posting articles on his site are concocted made up names, he has no followers so he has to make their names up.]
RD: Nowhere is the proliferation of Hinduism in ISKCON more regularly criticized than here in the Sun.
[PADA: Rocana's living guru idea is itself coming from Hinduism?]
RD: Fortunately, many devotees are moved to write about the manifestation of this blight on Srila Prabhupada's movement, and thousands of readers appreciate hearing what these writers have to say. And what they say is something we all know very well… money is the honey, and in ISKCON, the Indian community is where the honey comes from.
[PADA: True, except right now -- the Western devotees are mostly gone, and thus there is hardly anyone collecting money from selling books. Thus, most current temples are running on Hindu donations. Agreed. Yet Rocana does not say, where is the money to maintain the temples going to come from instead? Rocana has no better plan? Rocana de facto says, stop making money altogether and shut down all the temples. OK, then the deities will have no temples, no garlands, no food offerings, no money to support the preaching etc., Nothingness is better than something? Sour grapes! Rocana just wants everything to stop. What kind of plan is this, just stop the whole program that is going on now and have no income at all? Shut the whole thing down and have nothing like Rocana does, what kind of plan is that? Rocana wants no temples, no deities, no books, no devotees being made, nothing at all, that is his better plan?]
RD: So despite all the efforts the Bangalore Ritviks make to put themselves above the rest of ISKCON, by watching the programs that go on in their local centers, one can see that the very same problems are there.
[PADA: Corporate ISKCON worship the molester messiahs program, no, we do not have that problem at all?]
RD: Take for example the recent invitation featured on the Ritvik website, Prabhupadanugas.eu, for an upcoming program at the Sri Krishna Balaram Mandir in Sunnyvale, California. This was the first Bangalore-supported Ritvik temple to be launched in the U.S. In photos of the temple's early days, e.g., at the inauguration festivities, we saw local Ritvik granddaddy, Yasodanandana dasa, standing benignly behind a beaming crowd of Indian-bodied devotees. What we didn't see, however, were pictures of Yasodanandana actually preaching from the asana. Given that Yasodanandana is California's governor of Ritvik-vada, we were surprised not to see him promoted as one of the key preachers.
If one keeps an eye on the periodically advertised activities going on at the Sunnyvale temple, they will see a slate of activities very reminiscent of Hari Vilasa's ISKCON Seattle temple: one Hindu festival after another, after another, punctuated by non-Gaudiya Vaisnava Indian cultural events, Mayavadi and New Age preaching, and all manner of offensive goings-on in front of the Deities.
We have long taken great exception to ISKCON Seattle's style of advertising promo pieces, which devotees in their congregation regularly send to us. The devotees are appalled by the grossness of disregard temple management shows for Srila Prabhupada's standards. Over and over, we have seen flyers for temple events that combine a festival Srila Prabhupada established, along with whatever Hindu event was falling close to that date on the calendar. Repeatedly we have seen Seattle posters that give prominence to the Hindu festival, putting the Vaisnava event at the bottom of the page, where a tiny picture of Lord Caitanya and Srila Prabhupada is found, dwarfed by some other Hindu figure or symbol.
[PADA: Rocana has no documents advertising anything to send out to anyone, he has nothing at all going on. Zero.]
RD: Today we read the promo piece from the Sunnyvale Ritvik temple event -- not billed as Deepotsava or the Festival of Lord Damodar, but rather as Deevali. And tacked onto the agenda after the offering of lamps and arati to Damodar is "Rama Taraka Yajna". But when did Srila Prabhupada include the chanting of Rama mantras during a festival in honor Lord Damodar?
[PADA: OK again, Rocana's program has no temples, no deities, no programs at all, no chanting to either Lord Damodara or Lord Rama or anyone else, no nothing. Why is nothing better than some non-standard "chanting to Lord Rama"? At least these people are chanting to Lord Rama, whereas in Rocana's program -- no one is chanting anything to anyone? At least chanting to Lord Rama is better than no chanting whatsoever?]
RD: Last month's workshop offering at Sunnyvale was also similar to typical ISKCON temple fare these days. A seminar called "Art of Mind Control" made reference to Arjuna and the Upanishads, but promised to deliver a solution that doesn't come from Bhagavad-gita or Srila Prabhupada's instructions. Instead, they are selling "never-before-heard-of strategies and never-before-used applications". But what was wrong with the techniques and strategies Sri Krsna provided to Arjuna for controlling the mind and senses, which are ageless and perfect?
[PADA: Well for the record, the Sunnyvale temple tells people to chant Hare Krishna as a means of mind control. Not sure what is the harm of that? Rocana has no program to help anyone, he is not helping one single person do anything of value whatsoever. At least we have some program where we tell people to control the mind by chanting HARE KRISHNA, we have something going on at least, Rocana has nothing at all going on.]
Sunnyvale's 'Art of Mind Control' Workshop: "The Upanishads say that for one who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his mind will remain the greatest enemy. Arjuna characterized the mind to be restless, turbulent, obstinate and very strong, and thought subduing it would be more difficult than controlling the wind.
Be trained in making this powerful phenomenon as a friend to achieve inconceivable feats. Take charge of this subtle weapon at one's disposal waiting to be unleashed. Discover never-before-heard-of strategies and never-before-used applications."
[PADA: Right, the never heard before process is to chant Hare Krishna. Apparently, Rocana has never heard of this either. ys pd]