New Generation of Srila Prabhupada disciples emerging!

The poison issue (ISKCON) ys pd

Dear Prabhus,

Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. PAMHO. I hope your sadhana and bhajan are going well. Thanks Puranjana prabhu for reminding past mistakes concerning the poison issue - quite a double edged challenge. Double edged because we have Prabhupada's example, who later on stated that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja was poisoned. Same here, 1937, Mayapur, West Bengal, nobody was caught, nobody was put in prison.

[PADA: First of all India's court system are notoriously corrupt. It takes a lot of money to get any justice there and even if you have money, like Bangalore, you can still have problems getting actual justice. Srila Prabhupada was not a rich man in the 1930s -1960s and he would not have been able to get much going in court.

The idea that Srila Saraswati was poisoned was not brought out very much later, for example when we were in India in 1970 perhaps because, there was no point in starting a big war with them in 1970, when he was just trying to get established in India. He did tell us in 1970 that we should post a guard by his door since his God brothers might try to harm him. He did tell us that his guru died from disgust, and that SST was aware they were sitting around like vultures awaiting him to die.

He did say that they were envious of their guru, he did say they were all waiting for him to die so they could take over his seat, he did tell Brahmananda to inform the devotees not to eat at Tirtha's because "he poisoned my guru maharaja and he might poison you," he did say their whole idea was kill guru and become guru, and so on.

In other words while he was not emphasizing the issue, he did make it a back ground issue, we did understand that there was a big problem here. Srila Prabhupada also said that Tirtha ordered a doctor to give SST injections, which his guru did not want, and he died shortly after that. So yes, he did not want this to be the foremost issue, but he did give us powerful hints that there was a problem with the departure of his guru.

As for us, we have no precedent for this issue, ok except for Jesus. And we are not pure devotees who are trying to make our own mission, we are trying to pick up the pieces of our guru's mission, and if one of the pieces of the puzzle is that he was assassinated, that is an important piece. It also explains the whole take over very simply and succintly. Srila Prabhupada also says the reason Jesus is so famous is because he was killed for his preaching, I see no reason why Srila Prabhupada should not be equally famous.] 

GD: ** Prabhupada never mentioned the poisoning of his guru in public. For Prabhupada the poisoning of his guru was the same painful remembrance like for us concerning Srila Prabhupada. During all those years in India (1937-1965) Prabhupada never tried to expose the involved persons. Why Prabhupada never made any attempt to put those culprits under lock and key? Could it be that Prabhupada figured that this would destroy his preaching?

[PADA: We actually do not know, but I would agree that he had a larger preaching mission and it was not the most important thing for him to rectify or expose the criminals in the Gaudiya Matha, he was going ahead making his own Matha.]

GD: ** Prabhupada preached Sankirtan-yajna wherever he went, 24hrs, 365days a year.

[PADA: And this is why we never insisted that people had to help me expose, if they wanted to start independent preaching, I said do that. Some of our friends are concentrated in preaching, not everyone needs to be involved in expose, agreed.]

GD ** 1967, Tompkins Square Park, Prabhupada addressing New York. Mentioning that his guru was killed by his cash-hungry godbrothers who spent donated funds to file lawsuits against each other? No!

[PADA: Expose is specialized preaching, yes, it is not that all the devotees should stop preaching, agreed. The biggest problem is that the criminals have given Krishna such a bad name, because not enough people helped to expose them at the start of all this in 1978, so now it is hard to preach. The public has been fried to toast by all the crimes. For example, a group of concerned devotees could have helped me get rid of Jayatirtha in 1979, we all knew he was offering LSD to the shalagram deity and having sex with followers, but most of the devotees compromised and would not help me, they supported that JT was an acharya, and they started the idea that acharyas make mistakes and take LSD, so the rank and file devotees proved useless to expose this and so it all had to come to the point of all the newspapers in England blaring the headlines -- "Guru's Head Hacked Off," millions of people in the public thus had to help us expose this problem, that means, the public had to rectify and expose because the devotees did not. And this in turn fried the public, they had to deal with our dirty laundry because we kept sweeping it under the rug.]

GD ** When Prabhupada stated in Vrindavan, November 1977, that he is sure that someone administered him poison this statement spread like wildfire, leaked through,  i.e. thousands of arrived devotees heard it. Nobody went to police, no autopsy, no police questioning.

[PADA: Right, he was on another mission, he was not trying to pick up the pieces of the Gaudiya Matha, agreed.]

GD ** Same like US, Radhanatha & Kirtananda, meanwhile after 20 years nobody even wants to know circumstances, why thousands of devotees refused to give evidence - case is time-barred. 

[PADA: Right, this is why I never cared about courts and police. Krishna Kanta told me if I could get the courts to agree, then he would accept, becuase he only accepts the chicken tikka eating court room people and not Srila Prabhupada as his authority. He might have some feelings for Srila Prabhupada, if the cigar smoking court room leaders order him to do so. What a joker!]

GD ** In sum, going public with the poison issue, karmis have no understanding that nobody went to police. Rather figure that Hare Krishnas are psychopathic personalities.

[PADA: Well maybe except that poisoning is much harder to deal with. What really makes the devotees already look foolish is that they did not stop LSD offering fools who were stooping their married disciples, and protest when pedophile perverts were wearing silk clothes and gold crowns, sitting in golden seats covered with the hands of 60 boys? None protested, or hardly none, so the media had to expose it, the FBI had to raid New Vrndavana, the devotees did not fix this, the mundaners had to.]

GD ** We might vow, "These ladies with their dogs had actual concern, because they have some actual human consciousness and heart felt sentiment", but Kali-yuga moves.

[PADA: It means the devotees as a group did not care that Srila Prabhupada said he was poisoned, whereas an ordinary person does care because they have feelings of sympathy for someone who says they are being poisoned. It means that devotees as a group are a little like zombies, they do not emote like ordinary heart felt people would, they also did not care as a group when I said there was a mass molesting program, there is a lot of impersonalism and non-human robotism going on. That is changing, many of our people are getting on board with the poison issue and we are getting a new group of people who are concerned about poison, molesting etc. We are getting a better crop of devotees emerging right now.]

GD ** At one point the karmis will kick out Vaishnavism - no more Hare Krishnas in the West.

[PADA: Right, if we do not clean up our house, it might burn down from all the accumulated trash.]

GD ** What Krishnakant stated 10 years ago, not sure if meanwhile new insights have changed his understanding. Surely he will answer such questions.

[PADA: His complaints about the poison issue are still on his web site as far as I know?]

GD ** Don't bash other Prabhupadanugas on the basis of outdated information.

[PADA: KK has to offer an apolgy and clarification then, he has not done that.]

GD ** War between Rocana and ritviks - similar chaos. The excommunicated/ kicked out ex-ISKCONits are killing each other, a GBC man recently commented.

[PADA: Well Rocana is a GBC man, he still says they are diksha gurus, he never left them.]

GD ** Good for the false guru camp, when two fight the third one takes the prize.

[PADA: "It is what it is." Rocana compromises and supports the GBC gurus by saying they are diksha gurus, Krishna Kanta compromises on the poison issue, they are compromisers with Ravana, the people who compromised with Ravana were also killed, just like the people who compromised with Duryodhana were all killed etc. Compromisers are guilty parties by aiding and abetting the criminals. ys pd]  

GD ** May we be safely situated under the shelter of Srila Prabhupada's Lotus Feet, Those of our Guru Varga, the Vaisnavas, and Sri Sri Radha and Krsna.

With love, Your servant, Gopesh das

PADA: Jaya!
 

Bangalore Folk devotees (ISKCON) ys pd

FOLK has 12 hostels with 150 members. Notice these devotees are holding our book "Srila Prabhupada Siddhanta." (A ritvik manifesto). ys pd    

(Click on photo to enlarge)

RE: The poison issue and Prabhupada's chart (ISKCON) ys pd

Dear Prabhus, Srila Prabhupada's astrology chart was done by a famous astrologer, I think Asotosha, and the chart said -- you will live for many more years, if you can survive the next six months, but beware of danger from "juniors and subordinates." Later on, as Srila Prabhupada complained of being poisoned, he interjected "jyoti jnana" -- i.e. the jyotish knows (that my life is in danger from juinors and subordinates).

In addition, Srila Prabhupada said "yeh sab friends" (juniors and subordinates) were discussing poisoning him. Of course these same "juniors" just blurted it all out to Srila Prabhupada, that they were discussing gurus being killed with broken glass, poison and so forth. Krishna Kanta was later confronted with the "poison whispers" which are saying things like "the poison is going down," and he just said to me, this is the way people "talk normally." What!

Which "normal people" sit around "normally" saying -- the poison is going down? What amazed me in 1997 was that when I went out with an "I am being poisoned" leaflet at the Los Angeles Rathayatra, and most of the devotees ignored me, and a few attacked me, some "karmi" ladies -- dressed in bikinis and being pulled along on their roller skates by their dogs -- stopped and they wanted a leaflet. They were at once very upset.

And so these ladies said "This older man said he was being poisoned, that is terrible." These ladies on skates had more concern for Srila Prabhupada than Krishna Kanta probably ever will. This was a very good realization for me, people who have a heart are at once concerned for others, people with a stone heart do not, even if they dress as vaishnavas. Sorry, saying your guru is being poisoned is not "normal talk." These ladies with their dogs had actual concern, because they have some actual human consciousness and heart felt sentiment, and are not zombie bogus Krishna devotee robots. So these ladies will be blessed by Krishna for showing so much loving concern for His pure devotee, others, well not so much. Its really this simple, he said -- "Just as they killed Jesus, they may kill me also," ... and they did. ys pd   

Now Rocana is promoting the ritvik idea (ISKCON) yipeee!

I always remain your servant in Srila Prabhupada and the pure Vaishnava's seva. Please forgive any offense you may consider so during this exchange. Although offenses cannot ever be justified, I only appeal to my due rights as your friend and junior God brother, and present here various arguments that only aim to please our dearest and exclusive diksha-guru Srila Prabhupada. Please correct me if I'm wrong in any of the above... do not allow me to be ALWAYS wrong.

Sadhudasa Anudasa

PADA: this is what the ritviks have said all along, the exclusive diksha-guru is Srila Prabhupada. Rocana's writer AGREES! ys pd 

Madhu Pandit clears up legal issues (ISKCON) ys pd

Bangalore Correspondent Fails to Prove Charges

BY: MADHU PANDIT DASA

Jul 28, 2011 — BANGALORE, INDIA — The Bangalore Correspondent fails to prove his charges; and an explanation of the Hundi system of Bangalore Temple.

This is in continuation of my assurance to the readers that I would explain how the Hundi money is handled in ISKCON Bangalore Temple. The anonymous Bangalore Correspondent has been proved to be an irresponsible correspondent who has vested interest in maligning the leaders by alleging financial impropriety. He thinks that by telling a very big lie, nobody will doubt. He has failed miserably to prove his allegations, so much so that he does not even respond to the challenge put to him in his so-called reply. He simply brings up more big lies. Again he thinks that the readers will forget the challenge thrown to him to prove that the Hundi money of Bangalore temple is siphoned off to family trusts of myself.

And for his new allegations, the pramana or authority for him is again an anonymous website.

Just because we went against the deviations of their self-made gurus, these kind of individuals indulge in character assassination behind our back. This is an old trick. In these days of Internet communication it does not work. He is quickly exposed, being unable now to produce evidence to substantiate his specific allegations. Once he has been proved here to be lying he does not deserve any more replies to his new lies.

It is only after the guru issue was raised that I became a bad guy, fraud, thief, etc. This is evident from the letter issued by H.H. Jayapataka Swami giving me an excellent character certificate, just when the guru issue began in the year 1998. I am reproducing that letter at the end of this article.

The world is not too foolish to see the game played by the agents of the self-made gurus. The same person who vouched for my integrity, a year or so later was discussing in a Pamho.com conference how to take a criminal route to destroy my reputation in the public by foisting criminal cases which do not exist. He says "…Madhu Pandit Dasa has good reputation, but it doesn't take long to loose it, if we do criminal cases against him…" (Jayapataka Swami, PAMHO Text 4259580)

It is nothing but cowardice for the anonymous Bangalore Correspondent to hide behind anonymity, and create havoc in the society by making false allegations. In one sense while recognizing the reality that accusers are fearful of testifying against people who hold power, here is the case of a person who is given the liberty to remain anonymous and prove the charges to the readers. Yet he does not do so. So clearly he falls under the category of persons who are a menace to the society.

Having said this much for the benefit of the readers, I give below a summary of how securely the Hundi money in Bangalore Temple reaches ISKCON bank accounts, directly involving the Bank officials on a day-to-day basis.

Hundi handling system in Bangalore Temple:

The temple has small movable hundis and also big hundis. All these hundis are entered in a register and each hundi is given a specific identity code. The temple will install only those hundis which are recorded in this register and also having an identity code. This is required to ensure that there are no unauthorized hundis being installed in the temple.

The keys of all the Hundies are under the joint custody of Bankers, Finance Department, Chartered Accountant (CA) firm and Temple Administration. Hundi keys cannot be accessed by one of them in isolation and it can be accessed only when all of them are available together.

The Hundies are opened every day in the presence of the Bankers, Finance Department and CA firm, counted in their presence and the bank officers accept the money and give the receipt/challan there itself and take it with them for banking. In other words, everything that falls in the hundi is banked the same day directly by the bank officials.

CCTVs are also installed in the Hundi room for monitoring and supervision of the process of counting.

The Finance department records the same in the books of accounts on the same day and verifies with the bank statement the next day.

A report is sent to Temple Administration on the collections.

I will answer rest of the questions raised by him. Why are there so many trusts floated in Bangalore? These trusts are floated to handle different kinds of taxation issues specific to certain kinds of activities. Since ISKCON Society enjoys tax exemption, prasadam sales, book sales, paraphernalia sales, township development, themes park, etc., cannot be directly carried out by the ISKCON Bangalore Society, as it would endanger its tax exemption status. These activities involve paying commercial taxes and income taxes. ISKCON Society which runs the temple handles only donation money.

Proper tenant relationships are there for these trusts with ISKCON Bangalore Society, paying market rent to the Society. All these trusts comply with all the statutory requirements, pay taxes, both income tax and commercial taxes.

The surplus in these trusts are used either to expand the respective businesses and/or donated to ISKCON Bangalore Society at regular intervals. Further, each of these trusts are controlled/owned by a board of trustees, who are all the elected GBC members, the Temple President being only the Managing Trustee. The Bangalore Correspondent's statement that these are family trusts is just his masala for the readers -- another lie. There are ten missionary trustees in each of these trusts and they are all the elected GBC members of ISKCON Bangalore. Most of these trusts were floated between 1992 to 1999, during the Guru regime prior to the guru issue being raised by ISKCON Bangalore. In fact, H.H. Jayapataka Swami and H.H. Bhanu Swami were founding trustees for five of these trusts.

ISKCON Mayapur, ISKCON Mumbai and ISKCON Delhi also have several trusts functioning in their premises engaged in commercial activities. ISKCON Mayapur floated several trusts, nearly fifty of them, foolishly for the purpose of illegally circumventing the land ceiling laws of the West Bengal Government, where no single trust can hold more than about twenty acres of land. In fact, all the Mayapur lands, except a few acres surrounding where the temple is being built, are all now under the control of the West Bengal Government. The Government has found out that they have bought these lands in the name of these trusts just to circumvent the Land Ceiling Act. It is a big mess.

All the millions of dollars of BBT money that went into buying about 500 acres of land in Mayapur is under threat of seizure, if not already seized on paper by the Government. It is because of this goof up that the main temple is being built in the clear land in the name of ISKCON, the old fountain and park area, and not where it was planned.

Are the worldwide devotees aware of this failure of the GBC body in practically losing millions of dollars of BBT money donated to Mayapur during Harikesh's time to buy these lands, just by their foolish strategy? You cannot float trusts as a strategy to evade state laws. Sooner or later one will be caught. Even the source of funds for these lands are under scrutiny by government authorities. If what I say is not true, let the GBC clarify that they have not practically lost all the lands in Mayapur.

So goodbye to the Bangalore Correspondent, who has now lost all his credibility before readers. So the readers of Sampradaya Sun can expect more masala from this spineless agent of ISKCON Mumbai. Spineless, because he could at least say that he is reporting for ISKCON Mumbai and not ride on the neutrality of a correspondent that any reader would presume while reading his reports written under the banner of Bangalore Correspondent of Sun. I request the Editor of the Sampradaya Sun to rid him of this title as Bangalore Correspondent or regulate him to report rumor as a rumor, allegations of someone as allegations, and not mislead the readers as if the content of rumors and allegations are facts.

Madhu Pandit dasa

=====================

Typed true copy of Letter from Jayapataka Swami
(Download scanned copy)

International Society for Krishna Consciousness
Founder – Acharya : His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabupada

[LOGO]
Tridandi Goswami

Jayapataka Swami
Guru & Governing Body Commissioner
Mail: P.O. Box 16108, Circus Avenue, Calcutta 700 017 (WB) INDIA
Phones : +91 (3472) 45210 Fax : +91 (3472) 45277
Sri Dham Mayapur, 4th November, 1998

Dear devotees of Bangalore Yatra,

Please accept my blessings. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I understand that there has been a personal campaign against Madhu Pandit dasa by some congregation devotees that he has embezzled temple funds for acquiring personal property. I have been informed by the temple that some of them have approached the newspaper with this and other allegations of financial misappropriation by Madhu Pandit dasa. I have known him for 18 years and I stand for his personal integrity in this matter.

Madhu Pandit dasa has been the President of the Bangalore centre for the past 14 years. His dedication and contribution to the movement is laudable. He has maintained excellent standards ethically and morally. He is an asset to our leadership in ISKCON. He is very much respected by other leaders of our society. He has contributed immensely for the growth of the movement in Karnataka. Hence it is unfair and unethical on the part of the anyone who is indulging in this personal vilification campaign.

Rumors are also afloat that temple officers have bought lands in their personal name. Let me make it clear that the Vice President and Secretary have only lent their names to purchase agricultural lands on behalf of the society by the profits of the incense business as ISKCON cannot hold land beyond a certain limit as per the Land Reforms Act of Karnataka. They have also lent their names as partners of the incense business with no personal gains from this business which is done exclusively for the benefit of the temple. The business is conducted in the name of GOLOKA since business activities in ISKCON India is usually not done under the banner of ISKCON. All this has been done in the interests of the society. Further these lands have been leased to the society by these officers of the Bangalore Branch. Thus everything is in order. It is unfortunate that some people are assigning ill motives against these officers.

No disciple has my approval or blessing for any such acts to malign the temple leaders in the name of service to guru. This is thoroughly condemned by me. I can only say that such persons are playing into the hands of Maya. If anyone has done such acts I am requesting that they do everything possible to undo it in the interests of preaching Krishna consciousness. During the last 14 years of his tenure as the President of Bangalore centre I have never received even one complaint of this sort.

I request everyone to maintain a mood of cooperation to continue preaching Krishna consciousness. Philosophical differences are being sorted out at higher levels. While I respect everyone's right as an individual in the matter of personal faith and convictions on the philosophical issues in ISKCON I would not appreciate anyone adopting low means of spreading falsehood about any vaishnavas.

Hope this finds you all in good health.

Your well-wisher,
Sd/-
Jayapataka Swami
(underline provided and not in original)

mad asraya (ISKCON)

Prabhupāda Vāṇī

Mad-āśraya. Either you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa... You cannot take shelter of Kṛṣṇa directly, that is not possible, but one who has taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, you can take shelter of him. That is mad-āśrayaḥ, one, mat-āśrayaḥ: "a person who has taken shelter of Me." That means His devotee, a pure Vaiṣṇava, a Vaiṣṇava guru. (PRABHUPADA Lecture SB 5:5:26 Vṛndāvana, November 13, 1976)

San Francisco Rathayatra advertisement

http://www.sanjose.com/san-franciscos-festival-of-the-chariots-e635651

Radhanatha swami helped Sulochana murder (ISKCON) ys pd

http://iskcontimes.com/radhanath-swami-helped-murder-sulochana-dasa

Great News, ISKCON Bangalore focusing on POISON ISSUE ys pd

http://iskcontimes.com/poison-issues

Rocana is THE sum total OF the sum total OF the demigods? ISKCON ys pd

Rocana and the SAMPRADAYA SUN NEWS (update)

Jul 27, 2011 — CANADA (SUN) — Brief quotes from past articles on guru-tattva.
ISKCON's Initiation Dilemma

ROCANA: So these gurus have to be very careful not to present themselves in a bluffing way.

[PADA: First of all, which "gurus" does Rocana keep refering to? For the past 35 years, Rocana consistenly continues making a reference to his [ISKCON GBC?] "gurus" as he is doing once again above. Yet, he has never explained -- when were his "gurus" appointed, selected or authorized to be gurus? As Srila Prabhupada explains, in 1936 "motivated fools" [ok like Rocana] simply rubber stamped the "guru" title upon conditioned souls. These "foolish and motivated disciples" [ok like Rocana] have never explained -- who gave them the authority to rubber stamp these gurus? In short, for the past 35 years Rocana and his ilk has never explains who authorized them to claim that some GBC are gurus?

Then Rocana "hopes against hope" that his overblown claim that these falling down individuals are "gurus" will stick, which is of course also what happened in the post-1936 Gaudiya Matha. In 1936, people like Rocana simply applied the "guru title" to many falling down people, and Srila Prabhupada says that the result of these "foolish disciples" like Rocana, and their concocted rubber stamping people as gurus, was "the breakdown of the Gaudiya Matha."

Srila Prabhupada says that these "motivated fools" [like Rocana] artificially designated fallen people as gurus in 1936 which resulted in a violent cult atmosphere in the Gaudiya Matha where "gurus" engaged in illicit sex and had dissenters murdered, which is exactly what Rocana and his ilk have orchestrated and generated in post-1977 in ISKCON, by their claiming that fallen people are "gurus." Rocana just comes out and says "these gurus" as if it is an established fact that they are gurus, did we forget to mention that Rocana's "gurus" are constantly being exposed in illicit behaviors, just as his post-1936 guru program did?

Worse, Rocana is now taking up the position of "advising the guru" because he thinks he is superior to the acharyas. We all know that Krishna's ACTUAL gurus are the sum total of the demigods, but notice how Rocana says these acharyas have to quit bluffing and start to behave better -- under his advice and authority. So, the guru is the sum total of the demigods, and now that Rocana is chastising and correcting the acharyas, that would make Rocana the "sum total -- of -- the sum total of the demigods." This is a little amazing, Rocana says he is the sum total of the sum total of the demigods, and then he advises others to "quit bluffing."

Rocana has contradicted himself all along. For example, Rocana sometimes says -- (a) initiations are not important. Why then did Srila Prabhupada say that initiations would continue by ritviks "in the future when you are no longer here"? Then Rocana says, (b) never mind worship of Srila Prabhupada, we should all just "wait for the next acharya." Again, when did Srila Prabhupada says to grind ISKCON to a halt and "wait for the next acharya to appear"? Sometimes Rocana says (c) that everyone can just be a guru now, (for example he says in this article that "there is nothing wrong with them being diksha gurus)."

Then Rocana says (d) we should follow his whack-doodle acharya Satsvarupa Dasa goswami who says "Srila Prabhupada's orders are vague" (except allegedly, according to Rocana -- Srila Prabhupada said no one would be accepting him as the guru anymore)? And -- we could go on and on and on here, but this is the whole problem with Rocana, he says all kinds of contrary things are true: simultaneously.

Of course Rocana's first real problem is that in 1986 he told everyone he is the sum total -- of -- the sum total of the demigods, and he was going to reform and fix his broken down bogus acharyas. Just as no one appointed Rocana's acharyas, no one appointed him to be the superior advisor to the acharyas? Notice, Rocana has never explained who or whom has appointed him to be a higher authority than all the demigods put together? Rocana is the superior authority to the acharyas because he was appointed by -- ok nobody.

Rocana is a bluffer, no one appointed him as the supervisor of the acharyas, he just made up their guru title and made up his own doctorate / reformer of the acharyas title, never mind while all Rocana's antics were going on, thousands of children were getting molested while Rocana was strutting around claiming to be the fix it doctor of the messiahs of the Jagat.

Krishna says: when the guru speaks, it is He PERSONALLY who dictates how the guru speaks. Shaksat Hari Tvena. In short, God dictates to His pure devotees and gurus. Notice how Rocana eliminates the need for Krishna because Rocana is removing Krishna from the equation, and thus Rocana is taking the post of dictating to the guru. Rocana says, who cares for Krishna's advising HIS OWN shaksat hari tvena gurus? "Lets kick Krishna out the window, who needs Krishna when we have brilliant overseers of Krishna like Rocana"? What! Rocana is taking the post that he is the superior advisor of Guru and God. What a humble man!

Krishna says it is an offense to advise the guru, Rocana says He does not need to listen to God at all, he will advise / reform the guru as he sees fit. And Rocana will kick Krishna's advise out into the trash. Rocana has self appointed himself as the boss of God. What a bluffer! Rocana has self appointed himself as the superior authority to Krishna, due to his association with other self appointed messiah fools.

This is amazing, Krishna says the guru is His "shaksat hari tvena" expansion, and Rocana says, "Right, and I am in control of Krishna's expansions and not Krishna, therefore I have to advise Krishna's expansions how to act." Rocana has apparently not been taking his medications again, of course there are other foolish mentally unstable people just like Rocana in Bellvue mental home, who also think they are the boss of God Almighty. There was one nutty fellow in Bellvue who held his hand up thinking this was keeping the sun away from the earth, and Rocana is now in league with this fellow.]

ROCANA: And that's what humility means.

[PADA: Yes, Rocana is so humble, he says we no longer need Krishna to dictate to the guru, Rocana is going to dictate to the guru, because Rocana is the reformer super-visor of Guru and Krishna.]

ROCANA: Our ISKCON gurus have to humbly admit, 'I'm not as advanced as Srila Prabhupada, and here's the philosophical explanation of 'how and why'. That doesn't mean they can't be diksa gurus.

[PADA: OK, if these gurus are not advanced enough to be gurus, that means they are ritviks. Of course since Rocana's messiahs and "gurus" cannot even keep their pants on in the presence of men, women or even children, Rocana's gurus are not even fit to be church sweepers? Anyway, yes these gurus should admit they are not fit to be gurus, that is what we said all along?

Except then Rocana says, ok they are not advanced, therefore, they are as good as Jesus and they can absorb sins by giving diksha? How does that work? They are not advanced, they cannot keep their pants on, but they are members of the parampara, diksha gurus, absorbing sins like Jesus? Therefore, Rocana needs to be the fix-it doctor / advisor to these people like Jesus and the parampara? This is all contrary.

Yes, Krishna dictates to the guru -- except when Rocana kicks out Krishna and takes over the post of Krishna. NOTICE! Rocana is saying "the guru has to do this, the guru has to do that," Rocana clearly thinks he is the over-riding authority over Krishna and his acharyas. Krishna says that the guru is HIS personal EXTERNAL manifestation, and now Rocana says, the external manifestation of God is his personal puppet, Rocana is in charge of God Almighty. What!]

ROCANA: "And what is ISKCON's answer to this dilemma? They rubber-stamp the gurus.

[PADA: Rocana is the main person now rubber stamping these people as gurus. Almost no one else is these days? We say these GBC are not gurus, whereas Rocana is STILL rubber stamping that they are gurus. As soon as we say homosexuals and pedophiles are not gurus, Rocana is screaming obscenities at us that we are "not following (his?) tradition" of worship of illicit sex. He is defending their homosexual and pedophile guru lineage while no one else is these days. He is a living dinosaur.

This is what Rocana has been doing for 35 years. He keeps saying the GBC are gurus, albeit rubber stamped and zonal gurus, but he never explains "how" they became gurus in the first place, other than in Rocana's fertile brain? The answer is simple, people like Rocana are the persons who rubber stamped the GBC as gurus. So Rocana is one of the prime leaders of the rubber stamp cadre.

Now Rocana complains that since he has vociferously suppressed our idea that these leaders are NOT GURUS, but only institutional managers or representatives (ritviks), that his deviations has created "institutional gurus," so at least he admits he is the caused this instititutional guru imbroglio.]

ROCANA: While in certain statements these gurus say, 'We're not on the same level as Srila Prabhupada', they never philosophically specify just who Srila Prabhupada is and who they are in relation to, or in comparison to Srila Prabhupada.

[PADA: And neither does Rocana. As soon as we say these "gurus" were not appointed as gurus, but only as proxies, Rocana says that is the bogus ritvik deviation. In other words Rocana still thinks Srila Prabhupada appointed gurus and not managers / priests.]

ROCANA: If you criticize them in any way, or suggest that they aren't what they are presenting themselves to be, you can expect to have problems with the institution. Never mind that Srila Prabhupada said fakers and bluffers are the worst kinds of people.

[PADA: Notice Rocana now says that we need to criticize his acharyas and diksha gurus in his parampara? And if we do criticize his acharyas, we will be tossed out. Rocana is such a fool he does not know that his whole idea -- that we need to criticize the acharyas, is bogus. In sum, Rocana is the number one supporter of their cheating and bluffing, he keeps saying they were not appointed as proxies, implying that they are gurus, and he even says they are gurus. Rocana is the prime promoter of all the "fakers and bluffers."]

ROCANA: From "Institutionalized Diksa is a Disaster" (2008)

[PADA: Meanwhile Rocana has no idea what arrangement was made? He simply says that the whole issue is vague, we cannot actually say what happened? Ooops! Except, what we do know is that Rocana's pedophile guru program is authorized? He says they are not fit for guru, then he says there is no problem for them being diksha gurus. Then he says he is the doctor of the acharyas and he will fix them. Then he says we should criticize Rocana's acharyas and anyone who disagrees to criticize the acharyas is a bogus ritvik. Rocana says it is fine that they become diksha gurus, when they were only appointed as ritviks? If the instructions are vague, why would Rocana complain about others when they disagee with his rubber stamped gurus? As soon as someone says they are not gurus, Rocana says they are the enemies ot the Sampradaya Sun? Nirvesesa means -- no specifics, its not this, its not that, its not that we should worship Srila Prabhupada, its not that we should worship the GBC, of course the GBC are ok to be diksha gurus, homosexuals are acharyas, but on no account can Srila Prabhupada be the acharya, and more contradictions, ad nauseum? The good news is that Rocana is un-ravelling, as are his bogus GBC gurus and their tradition of worshipping debauchees as acharyas. ys pd]

ISKCON Bangalore new video on "FAKE GURUS" ys pd

http://youtu.be/e8GXDYxE8v4

Dear Bangalore Correspondent (ISKCON) ys pd 07/29/11

Dear "Bangalore Correspondent"

Why if you (feel you) are writing honestly, and have conviction in what you're writing, would you not be using your name? The least you could do for readers is to explain why you are holding back in this way if you feel the information you are giving is "really factual."

There is also this to consider: "Bangalore Correspondent," you keep attacking Madhupandit prabhu with various accusations - stealing money from Krsna, doing this and that illegally - yet surely you must know about the illegalities going on within mainstream ISKCON, as well as those (so many) folks in "mainstream" ISKCON who are stealing CRORES money from Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON, keeping it for themselves, thus diverting such money from being used in service to Srila Prabhupada and Krsna, and are using it instead for their OWN SENSE GRATIFICATION. This includes SOME ISKCON GBC gurus/sannyasis using such money for going to PROSTITUTES (which the GBC knows), besides the other sense-gratificatory things such diverted money gets used for, non-Krsna consciously.

As Krsna Himself said, BG 3.21 yad yad acarati sresthas... (although Krsna was speaking about truly great men, but as we are in Kali Yuga, and the majority of people don't have a sense of what means "great man"), we see others within mainstream ISKCON, from "in-between," to "the low man on the totem pole," following in the footsteps of the "big" people; stealing money from KRSNA via the ISKCON channels - with some "brahmacaris" using it on prostitutes, as well as other forms of sense gratification. So what started at the top, has gone towards the bottom, with (so-called) brahmacaris, using/diverting Krsna's laksmi for their own sense gratification. I'm speaking about mainstream ISKCON.

You have SO MANY examples (of liars, cheaters and thieves and their activities) within mainstream ISKCON, so if you are that genuinely concerned about Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON, why not use your energies to write about, and address and/or expose the garbage going on there to help clean out the dirt from there, to get these people to use that laksmi FOR KRSNA, in HIS service, where such laksmi BELONGS!!! to help enable Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON to be the effective society Srila Prabhupada wanted for spreading Krsna consciousness.

Please do not think I'm writing this "to support Madhupandit prabhu because I'm 'a ritvik'." I'm NOT "a ritvik." I simply have a question about the validity regarding what you write and why if what you're writing is "factual," you won't "stand by it," by writing your submission using your name.

My dear "Bangalore Correspondent," there is a verse in Srimad Bhagavatam, spoken by Bali Maharaj (8.20.4), in which He makes His own statement, then quotes Mother Bhumi: "There is nothing more sinful than untruthfulness. Because of this, mother earth once said, 'I can bear any heavy thing except a person who is a liar'."

Please consider all of the above carefully...

Your servant,

B. Radha-Govinda
Hare Krsna

 

Send in Your Vyasa Pooja offerings HERE!! (ISKCON) ys pd

(Click On Photo To Enlarge)

ISKCON NYC festival announcement JANMASHTAMI 2011

(Click To Enlarge photo) 

Sent Your Srila Prabhupada Vyasa pooja offerings to:

a.krishnadas@hkm-group.org

 

Where they will be published by Bangalore temple devotees, ys pd

Rocana and George A Smith ATTACK Srila Prabhupada (update)

Don't Let ISKCON or the Rtviks Get the Better of You

BY: GEORGE A. SMITH Jul 25, 2011 — CALIFORNIA, USA (SUN) —
Prabhupada: "These are facts. Two parties there were. One party, to use guru as their instrument for self-aggrandizement, and another party left guru. So both of them are offenders. This Kunja Babu, this T?rtha Maharaja's party, he wanted to enjoy senses through guru. And the Bagh Bazaar party, they left.
Tamala Krsna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: So both of them are severe offenders."
(Room Conversation April 22, 197, Bombay)

GS: We see the situation manifesting today as being both similar and comparable to the situation that Srila Prabhupada was describing here, the situation of the Gaudiya Matha following his own Spiritual Master's disappearance. As they had done then, two separate groups emerged, neither of which were following the directions of their spiritual master and both contending with each other, as we have now, in the forms of ISKCON as it has become and in the Rtvik camp.

[PADA: Oh great, Rocana and George Smith are now saying our group of several thousand "Prabhupadanuga's" (aka ritvik's) and our idea -- "worship of Srila Prabhupada as the acharya" -- is a deviation and a severe offense. Worship of the pure devotee is part and parcel of the "severe aparadhis" offenders camp. Yet, if worship of the pure devotee is a severe offense, then whom are we supposed to worship instead? Ooops, is it Rocana or George Smith? Where in any scripture does it say we cannot worship the pure devotee or it is "a severe offense"?

Notice! (a) Worship of the GBC gurus is bogus. (b) Worship of Srila Prabhupada is bogus. Even if we accept that, Rocana and GS never tell us (c) "who else we should worship," or what program is superior to OUR idea of worship of Srila Prabhupada? They just attack the worship of pure devotees and Srila Prabhupada as the worst of demoniac offenses, while giving no alternative.

Now they are saying that the bogus people from the Gaudiya Matha, actually the promoters of the worship of homosexual acharyas in the Gaudiya Matha, and our process of continuing the worship of Srila Prabhupada, are one and the same, "both are severe offenders" and similar deviations, so they are placing worship of Srila Prabhupada and the Gaudiya Matha's homosexual worship deviants on the same plane, "both are severe offenders." Worship of the pure devotee Srila Prabhupada is the same deviation as worship of the homosexual gurus in the Gaudiya Matha? Yep, Rocana and GS are having a meltdown, or maybe not, maybe their real colors are now being exposed.]

GS: ISKCON has duplicated the behavior of the first group of the Gaudiya Matha that Srila Prabhupada is describing here, claiming false positions as guru for their own self-aggrandizement, while the Rtviks have adapted the behavior of the latter -- not that they have just left ISKCON, but they have departed from the siddhanta, from the philosophical presentation of the Sampradaya Acarya in line with the presentation of all the previous acaryas from Lord Brahma on down, in favor of their own concoction. By so doing, both of these groups have become severe offenders and have become useless besides.

[PADA: Amazing, GS and Rocana are now saying anyone who worships Srila Prabhupada is "concocting" and is really a deviant, an offender, and a demon -- and moreover is equal to the followers of the severe offenders from the homosexual acharyas program of the Gaudiya Matha. They are lumping all of us in together: The worship of Srila Prabhupada -- with the worship of child molesters and deviants, as one and the same devation. And what is the right path, well they forgot, they have no siddhanta of their own.

GS and Rocana are now directly equating the deviated Gaudiya Matha program of worship of homosexual pedophiles with the worship of Srila Prabhupada, saying both are the same "offense." Worship Jesus, or worship Satan, its all the same? This program is what Rocana was doing all along when he supported the GBC and their homosexual pedophile worship, he said this homosexual pooja is the good program and the worship of Srila Prabhupada is the bad and evil program. Except now GS and ROCANA are saying both the GBC's deviant acharya's idea -- and our idea of Prabhupada's continued worship, are -- the same idea, "both are deviation"?

Rocana also de facto says the worship of homosexuals and pedophiles acharyas program that evolved after 1977 is Srila Prabhupada's fault, because according to Rocana Srila Prabhupada was "intentionally vague" about what he wanted post-1977? The exact opposite is true, Srila Prabhupada was crystal clear: He disapproved of bogus guru programs period, and appointed gurus, and zonal gurus, and homosexual gurus and so on. He said continue "as it is" and DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING (keep the ritvik system). There are thousands and thousands of quotes about what he wanted, and what he said was the level of guru etc, we cannot repeat all of this material herein but a number of these quotes are found on our site http://harekrsna.org ...

How did the the ritviks get lumped into Rocana's worship of homosexual acharya program? We were the people who all along opposed Rocana and his homosexual acharyas program? So first of all, how can Rocana say the worship of Srila Prabhupada is the same as the worship of homosexual child molesters (de facto the Gaudiya Matha's idea) and next, how can he say the ritviks are part of that bogus program of worship of Rocana's homosexual acharyas program, since we opposed it all along?

Rocana is directly comparing worship of Srila Prabhupada to the worship of the homosexuals and debauchees of the Gaudiya Matha. Krishna says you have to worship Me via my pure devotee, and Rocana is saying anyone who follows Krishna is a demon and severe offender. Of course Rocana never tells us who we should follow, he just says Krishna's idea is demoniac and offensive.]

GS: Both ISKCON and the Rtviks stress the importance of accepting initiation to one's spiritual life in such a way as to make those of us who are uninitiated think that we must take the shelter of one or another side, that we must accept either some diksa guru that ISKCON offers us or initiation through the Rtvik process in order for our spiritual lives even to begin, and certainly in order to gain entrance and acceptance into the tradition and to receive Srila Prabhupada's and Lord Krsna's mercy, favor and protection, and to advance.

[PADA: At least the ritvik's program is moving forward, making thousands of devotees of Srila Prabhupada worldwide, because our program follows the idea that we need to give people shelter of the pure devotee (acharya-upasanam). So, at least we have a program -- and our program works in terms of spreading the preaching. Whereas George Smith, Rocana, Kailasha chandra, Bhakta dasa et al., they are not making any devotees of anyone -- on the one hand, while they are simply criticizing anyone who wants to worship Srila Prabhupada as a demoniac deviation on the other hand.

Just look at the results of their program, someone gets inspired to worship Krishna via His pure devotee and Rocana says, give away your books and your deity, quit sewing outfits for Krishna, stop chanting, give it all up, you cannot worship a posthumous dead corpse, because worship of dead Krishna and His dead gurus is a waste of time, it is just as demoniac and offensive as the bogus people from the Gaudiya Matha, so go back and eat hamburgers and do not be an offender who worships Krishna. And Rocana's idea is working to some extent, he has discouraged thousands of people from worship of Krishna and has sent them back to eating hamburgers, of course in our previous article we showed how Rocana compares Srila Prabhupada to the meat eating bogus mayavadi gurus.

So all Rocana and GS are really doing is -- following the Gaudiya Matha folks who criticized Srila Prabhupada's program (like having ritvik initiations). The Gaudiya Matha criticized Srila Prabhupada's ritvik system in the 1970s, and their top disciple Rocana is still at it. Of course Srila Prabhupada says those who criticize him are the severe offenders.]

GS: Such presentations make us extremely uncomfortable, creating such an existential pressure that in order to relieve it, we are forced to decide between the one or the other, to accept initiation from ether one or the other of these two groups and to take their side.

[PADA: The ritviks are merely quoting Srila Prabhupada, and he says, either you worship a pure devotee (the ritvik idea) or you descend into naraka loka (hell). Rocana and his cry baby pal George Smith find that Srila Prabhupada's statements are too direct and not vague, at the same time, they criticize that the pure devotees are too vague? No, Srila Prabhupada is not vague, the pure devotees are saying people who opine that worship of a pure devotee is a severe offense, like Rocana and GS, they are gliding to hell. Period.]

GS: The question though, that we must ask ourselves foremost is, are either of these two groups right in their single assertion that we must accept formal initiation in order to spiritually advance, or whether to do so is both non-essential and also ill advised, for by doing so, no matter which of the two we choose we have actually positioned ourselves upon the wrong side?

[PADA: No, that is not what the ritviks are saying. The ritviks have thousands of members worldwide and maybe only twenty five percent are formally ritvik initiated. We are not forcing anyone to take a formal initiation from us, this is a complete lie. What we are saying is what Srila Prabhupada said, that reading his books -- books of the pure devotee -- is initiation, the ceremony is not required. We never said the ceremony was required. We also said that the ceremony itself is not enough, just look at all the people who blooped after being initiated even by Srila Prabhupada. We said that understanding his siddhanta is real initiation, and that will come from his books and teachings. Rocana and GS are making up straw man arguments here. I hereby offer George Smith a $1,000 reward if he can show any letter from me saying people need to get the formal ceremony.]

GS: Luckily we are not dependent upon ourselves for the answer to this question, Srila Prabhupada gives us all we need with the use of our intelligence to discover it from his purport to Verse 5 of the Nectar of Instruction, last paragraph of the purport: "In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. The devotee should also know his own position and should not try to imitate a devotee situated on a higher platform. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikari Vaisnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaisnavism.

One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master."

(The Nectar of Instruction, from Srila Prabhupada's purport to Text 5)

[PADA: And as soon as we accept an uttama as our guru GS says this is bogus?]

In the second to last sentence of Srila Prabhupada's purport we may find the answer to this question as to whether the acceptance of initiation through either ISKCON or the Rtviks is an absolute essential in order for our spiritual lives not only to begin, but also in order for us to spiritually advance.

[PADA: The ritviks are following this perfectly, they are giving people a connection to a pure devotee, who is Rocana and GS giving us a link to, they never say.]

GS: One of the things that we learned in logic was how to discern a truth from other truths that were provided by drawing what is referred to as being a valid inference. Inference is the act or process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true. The conclusion drawn is also called an inference.

[PADA: Right, there you have it, word jugglery ki jaya, GS cannot name the person we need to worship, as we can infer easily.]

GS: We accept Srila Prabhupada's statements to be true and thus whatever logical inferences drawn from them also become valid and truthful. Among the fascinating inferences that may be drawn from this portion of the purport is one that disputes both ISKCON and the Rtviks claim that some type of diksa (either through the method that ISKCON is offering, or through the Rtvik process) are mandatory for our spiritual advancement and salvation. It is drawn from this second to the last sentence of the purport: "A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance."

The valid inference that can be drawn from Srila Prabhupada's instruction is that those who are on the lower to middle level of devotional service, or those who are kanistha and madhyama level devotees and who go against his advice that they should not accept disciples until they are pure devotees, while they may accept disciples must be careful not to accept disciples who are not upon the exact same level of spiritual advancement as they themselves are.

Thus a kanistha level devotee should only give diksa to others who are also upon the same kanistha platform, as they are. Likewise a madhyama level devotee should be careful only to give diksa to those who are on the madhyama level of spiritual advancement.

Do you see it? It is this. One can attain to at least the madhyama stage of devotional service without undergoing any formal initiation process, otherwise there would not be any madhyama level uninitiated devotees out there for the madhyama level devotees who are already initiated to initiate.

[PADA: No, EVERYONE STILL needs to get initiated into the divyam jnanam which destroys sins (diksha) of the pure devotee, di means divyam jnanam, ok you do not need formal initiation, maybe not, but you do need to be getting genuine divyam jnanam from an uttama devotee, and that is being done by HIS books.]

GS: There are some other fascinating inferences that may be drawn from just this single excerpt, which like a precious jewel has so many different facets, but this single one should suffice to discredit any claim by ISKCON or the Rtviks or by anyone else that one must accept formal initiation for one's spiritual life to both begin and to advance, and this should be sufficient to relieve the existential pressure that might otherwise propel us into making a quick, and unfortunate decision.

In his article, "The Bangalore Drama, Rocana dasa presents the following paragraph, which provided me with the inspiration for this article: "We are left to wonder why it is that for so many years prior, Madhu Pandit das had been doing what I have suggested in my presentation – essentially promoting a Siksa environment, giving Srila Prabhupada full recognition as being a Sampradaya Acarya, and encouraging devotees to simply follow him, without institutionalizing a program that puts undue emphasis on diksa, while at the same time accepting the sastric basis for diksa." All glories to Srila Prabhupada, Hare Krsna Ys George Smith

[PADA: Well thanks for nothing George, you are saying that the ritviks are the same as the bogus gurus of the Gaudiya Matha, and you are still not telling us what ELSE then is the source of divyam jnanam which destroys sins in your idea? You have no source of diksha at all, we do, it is the books of Srila Prabhupada. The ceremonials are ONLY good if they are done properly, but they are not mandatory. Srila Prabhupada said he was going to have varnasrama where most people would be workers, and only a few would be brahmanas, so he was back pedalling on the idea that everyone would get brahmana initiations anyways. The main thing I wanted to say about this writing is that both Rocana and George Smith are not offering a shred of alternative to what the ritviks are doing, i.e. making thousands of devotees of Prabhupada, and anyone who opposes making devotees of Prabhupada is de facto helping the evil molester messiahs program. To say that homosexual worship is "both the same" as worship of the pure devotee is what is the severe offense here. ys pd]
　

No more gay gurus please! ys pd

http://nimaipandit.ning.com/profiles/blogs/please-no-more-gay-gurus-in

Discussion about BANGALORE ISKCON ys pd 07/23/11

FRANK: The battle of ISKCONs took an ugly turn on Friday as devotees of the Bangalore unit prevented the Mumbai bureau representatives from entering its premises. Foiled in their attempt to enter the temple, the Mumbai team left, declaring its intent to take legal recourse to gain control of the property. Apparently, the Mumbai team wanted to surprise the Bangalore ISKCON authorities as it landed without prior information in four cars. Madhupandit Das objected to the Mumbai ISKCON attempts to gain control of the city unit as the matter was still pending before the Supreme Court.

Bangalore: Mumbai Team Makes Vain Bid to Enter ISKCON Temple in City
Bangalore, Jun 3 (PTI): An attempt by a team from Mumbai ISKCON to enter the Bangalore unit temple was prevented by those managing it. Several activists owing allegiance ISKCON temple in the city blocked the entry of the Mumbai team headed by Varada Krishnadas, which came here in the aftermath of the state high court order which ruled that the city property was part of the Mumbai ISKCON.

Madhupandit Das, President of the Bangalore ISKCON, maintained he had approached the Supreme Court challenging the High Court order and till the apex court delivered its orders, Mumbai ISKCON cannot interfere in its working.

Passing orders on the property dispute between Mumbai ISKCON and the Bangalore branch, the court had last week given six week time for appealing against the verdict. A tense situation prevailed at the entrance of ISKCON temple complex at Mahalakshmi Layout where hundreds of activists of the Bangalore unit resisted Mumbai team attempts to enter it. The arguments between the two groups led to traffic blockade on the road, which has become a narrow in the wake of the on-going works for Metro Rail. Police intervened and brought the situation under control. The Mumbai team returned following protests.

Madhupandit Das objected to the Mumbai ISKCON attempts to gain control of the city unit as the matter was still pending before the Supreme Court.

Pasted from http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp​.asp?n_id=104283&n_tit=Bangalore%3A+Mumb​ai+Team+Makes+Vain+Bid+to+Enter+ISKCON+T​emple+in+City

Fisticuffs and abuse near Iskcon temple
TNN | Jun 3, 2011, 11.56pm IST

BANGALORE: It was an unprecedented and shameful street fight, and lasted a good half-hour, as temple members scuffled in front of the Iskcon temple, shattering its peace with loud shouts and foul language. To the two groups — members of Bangalore Iskcon and the supervisory committee from Iskcon Mumbai– it did not matter that it is a sacred space for lakhs of Bangaloreans.

Problems began after the supervisory committee appointed by Iskcon Mumbai decided to enter the temple premises for an inspection, in the background of the property dispute between Iskcon Bangalore and Mumbai. Hearing the news, the Bangalore members gathered at the gate and locked it. Loud speakers fixed along the walls aired bhajans. Vehicles and visitors were checked before anyone was allowed inside the temple, which was turned into a fortress.

When the convoy of the supervisory committee arrived, a truck used for the Akshaya Patra programme, parked by the gate, was moved to cover the gate and prevent the car from entering. The Bangalore members surrounded the car and jammed the doors to prevent them from disembarking. A scuffle began after they managed to get out of the car. Dayaram Das, committee president, tried to walk into the temple and was stopped near the barricades.

The committee members moved away to interact with the media, and Iskcon Bangalore members followed them. A restaurant nearby had to shut down as people came rushing.

NO POLICE DEPLOYED

When all hell was breaking loose outside the temple, there were only three traffic policemen to handle more than 100 people and clear the road for traffic. A few meters away, in a small alley, a Karnataka Reserve Police Force unit and local police were stationed, but they did not intervene. An hour after the supervisory committee members were forced out of the temple, police teams arrived, including ACP CT Ajjappa. By this time, things had settled down. 

Srinivas Kumar: ‎@Akruranatha , who would call his spiritual master to lick ****** and this was told by Frank Hallenstein. Who would tolerate this most degradable comment on Srila Prabhupada. If we / I have scolded Frank, there is a solid reason. Some times, there is a reason to scold someone. He says he is a veteran. Veteran comes in for re-establishing Srila Prabhupada in His original position not in killing His own guru. Kindly understand this. External etiquettes are not very important. I have had enough conversations with @ Frank and got fed up with his demoniac nature.

Dayamayi Radhika ‎@Akruranath, on what basis you are making such allegations on Madhu pandit prabhu? Those are all false. As u are from LAW background at least you should make statements which really makes sense. We have told n no. times that this fight is not between Mpp ... and Iskcon Mumbai but with IB and IM. And regarding the property we are ready to give all the property and also surrender to the present GBC system if they accept Srila Prabhupada as the only spiritual master and not the pedophiles, murderers to their own spiritual master, womanizers, etc.

PADA: I know that some temples even in ISKCON have some ritviks there, because some of them sneak out, rent computers at the coffee house, and talk to me. I think it is better to try to keep these people than keep kicking them out? They are doing good service, why not keep them? ys pd

Agrāṇi Kṛṣṇa Dāsa: Dear Akruranatha Dasa Prabhu, when court case is concerned, it will be dealt in the court. That you leave aside. I can show hundreds of such cases which ISKCON has been loosing after the physical departure of Srila Prabhupada. I can also show you the amount of negative publicity ISKCON has got due to these gurus right from 1978. Let us not debate on that. The whole point of debate is July 9th Letter. And not the court case. 

Frank Hallenstein: Factually the court case has offered us a reality check from a detached perspective. Madhu pandit was formerly a disciple of an iskcon guru whom was accepted as a temple president for iskcon bangalore by the iskcon authorities. Mumbhai iskcon being the delegated head office on behalf of Srila Prabhupadas wishes that in india they are supreme. Madhu pandit according to the judges failed to prove his rather grand ascertions that iskcon bangalore was a seperate institution. Mumbai Iskcon is the real thing, Bangalore body fake: Karnataka high court Published: Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 8:22 IST
By DNA Correspondent | Place: Bangalore | Agency: DNA ....

Technically this means there is no future in arguing this scenario in court. The Karnataka high court observed that Iskcon, Bangalore was to conduct its first general body within 18 months of its registration in 1978 and elect a governing body. However, it had not done so which was a clear violation under the Section 1(2) of the Karnataka Societies Registration Act.

So madhu pandit has committed fraud,he miserably failed to prove the legal existence of Iskcon, Bangalore as an independent autonomous body, it said... He fabricated documents and was falsely claiming its right over the properties. There was no evidence on record to show that the properties were built by Iskcon, Bangalore...  Mumbai Iskcon is the real thing, Bangalore body fake: Karnataka high court SO YOU HAVE NO LEGAL CASE TO ARGUE.......! I have had a basic three year law backgound, the only way forward for iskcon bangalore is to argue that mumbhai iskcon represents the devil incarnate! Which though high risk, could succceed, however if it does not, it could very much backfire on madhu pandit and co, by allowing the judges to basically withdraw their lenient position on bangalore temple and there antics.

In essence they could be seen as completely unfit as preists and gaurdians of basic iskcon values, hence removed and made bereft of all opportunitys to progress as local iskcon representitives. Tim Lee seems very naieve, the response from my few Temple president friends is one of anger and determined resolve to simply get these ritvik-proxy people out of iskcon, no matter the cost! MADHU PANDIT AND CO, had fabricated documents and was falsely claiming its right over the properties. There was no evidence on record to show that the properties were built by Iskcon, Bangalore....

The court case is everything ...... we win it, you guys are gone, why should we have bangalore ritvik-proxy devotees in iskcon? They are not iskcon devotees they are ritvik-proxy followers of sahajiyaism, let them follow there hearts elsewhere....!

Agrāṇi Kṛṣṇa Dāsa ‎@Frank: If as per you Madhu Pandit Prabhu and Co had fabricated the documents, then how come we won in the trial court?

Krishnawatie Krishnapriya: I believe Madhu Pandit prabhu has been the intelligence and driving force in realising the Bangalore Temple. Now seeing such an opulent Temple being occupied by devotees who solely worship Srila Prabhupada as their Guru is the thorn in the ... eyes of the pseudo guru business guru's and their chamchas. That is the reason why they went to court to fight over the property. Factually the property belongs to Sri Sri Radha Krsna, as belongs everything else in the world to Them. Isavasyam idam sarvam ..... Now you people want to use these property to worship your gundas in grand style instead of Srila Prabhupada exclusively.

Dayamayi Radhika, Radhika Jsp and Srinivas Kumar like this

Agrāṇi Kṛṣṇa Dāsa On May 29th 39 devotees took shelter of Srila Prabhupada by taking initiation from him through the bonafide ritvik system. On Gaura Purnima around 300 devotees took initiation from Srila Prabhupada. And very soon another batch is being planned.. All bonafide RITVIK Initiations.

Krishnawatie Krishnapriya: You know what I would like to see: that all over the world simple villages were constructed where ritvik devotees would live and practise their Krsna consciousness, as was the case in the old ages, when individual gurus had their asramas. What use are such opulent Temples in the city if it results only in fights in the courts as to whom the earth and marmer belongs to?

Krishnawatie Krishnapriya grhe thako vane thako sadaa hari bole dhako.....
Krishnawatie Krishnapriya aa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje.

Agrāṇi Kṛṣṇa Dāsa Prabhupada desired that the temples should be the attraction of the city. ISKCON Blore is not just earth and marmer, it is the home for Prabhupada. And we should do everybit to save it from these money lingering monsters.

Krishnawatie Krishnapriya: Ahaituky apratihata ye atmaa suprasidati...unmotivated / ​unconditional ..it is pleasing to the soul - that is the real business of the devotees, not fighting in courts. But of course when the Mumbai demons challenge the Bangalore devotees, they are obliged to respond. In fact they do not want anything but glorify SRILA PRABHUPADA AS DIKSA GURU OF ISKCON and practise the teachings of His Divine Grace. Just bear in mind Agrani Krsna prabhu, that even if the supreme court, corrupted as they are in India - manage to give Bangalore Temple to these rogues, it should not stop the true devotees to continue their devotional service under whatever circumstances they find themselves. As Duryodhana managed to cheat the Pandavas out of their opulently established Indraprastha, even if these rogues manage to steal away Bangalore Temple, you must remain strong in spirit and prepared to build everything from scratch if necessary, but especially never to become despondent. I am not saying this will happen, but best to have considered the worst scenario you may possibly find yourself. 

I AM NOT SAYING THAT MPP and RITVIK DEVOTEES IN Bangalore should offer everything to these rogues on a serving tray!!!!!!!!

Srinivas Kumar: ‎Krishnawatie Krishnapriya mataji ... don't worry... We won't lose the War... Even if we lose the temple, Devotees will start from scratch and maintain SP as the centre of Iskcon. This bogus people only want to remove SP in IB and loot the property. It is not going to happen so easily at all.

Abhaya Charanaravinda Dasi: You people never obeyed srila prabhupadas ritvik order and that belongs to ISKCON! why are u only concernced about srila prabhupadas properties.?? If srila prabhupada was here in vapu hed kik on your faces for turning his iskcon into a bogus society of guru frauds! and thats why mandhu pandit had to do what he did! none of the bogus iskcon follow the pure devottees final order all your concernced with his prabhupadas property!! and also prabhupada and lord chaitanya said its spritually illegal to ban anyone from temples! "Yes. Temple is open for everyone. Let them come and sit down, chant Hare Krsna, hear Bhagavad gita. We don’t say, “Oh, are you potter? No. You are not allowed.” We don’t say that. “Are you cobbler? Oh, you are not allowed.” No. We don’t say that. Everyone is welcome. Come on.” (Srila Prabhupad Room Conversation, 16th July 1968, Montreal).

Krishnawatie Krishnapriya likes this Abhaya Charanaravinda Dasi “Similarly, the members of this Krsna consciousness society are sometimes refused entrance into some of the temples in India […]
Such dogmatic prohibitions were not approved by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.” (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 1:63, purport) The joke is if the banlagore temple was just a mud hut u wouldnt even want it u only want it becuz u are envoius and u want the deitys with all the expensive jewleery u hate to see a temple being run by the true ritvik folowers an especially one like bangalore but my bet is if it was a mud hut u wouldnt even care for it even if it did belong to iskcon lmao your just greedy lusty asuras.

Akruranatha Dasa: ‎>>and regarding the property we are ready to give all the property and also surrender to the present GBC system if they accept Srila Prabhupada as the only spiritual master<<

Well, they are not going to accept your ritvik theory, which is a...pasampradaya, so you may never "surrender" to the GBC. Fine. But what gives you the right to put conditions on giving back ISKCON's property? How did it become IB's property? It is IM's property. Also, what gives you the moral right to use the name "ISKCON" if you are in open defiance of the GBC?

Akruranatha Dasa Dear Agrani Krsna, you say: >>>Dear Akruranatha Dasa Prabhu, when court case is concerned, it will be dealt in the court. That you leave aside. <<< Why should I leave it aside? It is the very topic of discussion. If IB wants to leave it aside... they should not have contested it in the first place. If IB wants to leave it aside, why is it appealing to the Supeme Court? That is my point. Whatever you think about parampara, about ritvik, about guru tattva, about which devotees you respect and which ones you revile, should have nothing to do with whether you are honest in the matter of leaving ISKCON's property in the hands of ISKCON's authorized governance. 

Otherwise, you are essentially justifying stealing on the basis of your ideology about ritvik. Yes, possession may be 9/10th of the law, but the other 1/10th is actual property rights. The property rights question does not depend on ritvik versus parampara belief. You can go to the Bank of India and demand 50 crores on the basis of your belief in ritvik or in this guru, that guru, but they won't give you the cash unless you have a valid deposit account.

I agree they are two separate issues, but the issue of the property is important, and is completely unrelated to how you interpret the July 9th letter. 

Lenny Sislac: Right if ISKCON Bangalore would be a ruined skeleton temple like meanwhile so many western temples they wouldnt care a fig. Although everybody can see that this Prabhupada temple is attracting millions of people they want to destroy it and ...and to have a conditioned soul as guru installed. Because it is aparadha to think that Prabhupada can still initiate new devotees..When you ask them, how come prabhu that Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta both considered Jesus and his ritvik system of worship as bonafide: No thats not true we consider Jesus as humbug. To mention Jesus in present ISKCON is just about getting excommunicated. 

Akruranatha Dasa ‎>>I can show hundreds of such cases which ISKCON has been loosing after the physical departure of Srila Prabhupada.<< I am not claiming that winning or losing a court case proves anyone's being favored or disfavored by Krishna. I am actually trying to get you to disentangle the two issues: whether or not IB has a right to claim ownership and manage the property is, I agree, a completely separate issue from whether the parampara is supposed to stop with Prabhupada.

Even if you believe the latter, it does not follow that IB ows the property. It is apples and oranges.

I can imagine someone who is a thoroughly convinced ritvik-vadi, who nevertheless believes in turning the Hare Krishna Hills property over to ISKCON Mumbai. Such a person would have integrity, and be a hero in that sense. 

Lenny Sislac: ‎@Akruranatha Dasa: "Well, they are not going to accept your ritvik theory, which is apasampradaya" The only thing what is apasampradaya is to think that Prabhupada appointed Harikes, Bhagavan, Jayatirtha, Kirtananda &co to be successor acaryas, full fledged diksa-gurus. In other words, kanisthas who blooped, cheated and stole millions of laxmi. Thats an apasampradaya, what turns Prabhupada into someone who commits mistakes, conditioned soul. 

Tim Lee: The amazing thing is that in 1988 Lokanatha swami complained openly, in his Vyasa pooja offering to Srila Prabhupada, that there is a terrible mass exodus of the devotees from the ISKCON temples, he said -- the temples are now "empty, skele...ton crew" and he asked "where have all the devotees gone, the temples look like ghost towns?" Even he was complaining at the time that the GBC's gurus were ruining the movement. And the same people who made these temples into ghost towns want to now simply make some more temples into ghost towns. For example, the Long Island temple was renting out their hall to a Haitian Disco, which had dancing girls, booze and serving meat, and they had to shut that down due to so many complaints from the neighbors, now they are renting the temple hall as a bingo hall, all this because they kicked out all the devotees who used to run the place. I am not sure where Srila Prabhupada said he wanted to remove all the devotees and make his temples into Haitiian Discos and Bingo Halls? And now they want to make Bangalore into another Bingo Hall? ys pd

Akruranatha Dasa: ‎>> I can also show you the amount of negative publicity ISKCON has got due to these gurus right from 1978. Let us not debate on that.<< "These gurus" lumps every one of Srila Prabhupada's disciples who have made their own disciples into the... same category.

I will be the first to agree that those who serve as gurus and other leading figures of ISKCON (sannyasis, preachers, TPs, GBCs) should be advanced devotees of impeccable character, and such devotees may in fact be very rare. Srila Prabhupada needed people to come forward and help him. He wanted them to be first class. He was trying to train some to be first class. I believe he did a very good job and was immensely successful. Still, a highly advanced Vaisnava fir to be worshiped by the whole world is a very rare thing in this day and age, or really in any day and age.

Nevertheless, we should respect every Vaisnava -- Rupa Goswami says to respect anyone who even pronounces the name "Krsna" -- and there is no call for the very low-class, sleazy, envious attacks on the character of every disciple of Srila Prabhupada who has committed what appears to be the cardinal sin in the mind of ritviks: namely, the sin of inspiring others to chant Hare Krishna worship Krishna and read Prabhupada's books.

I am so disgusted by some of the links on this site, which pronounce things like, "Bhakti-Tirtha Swami: Dead" Do you think that a person leaving his body makes him worthy of contempt? Or a person having a stroke or other infirmity? If that were the case, none of the departed Vaisnava acaryas would be worthy of respect. Nobody is saying you have to worship anyone you have no faith in or who does not inspire you, but why should you be upset that *others* are inspired bvy Srila Prabhupoada's disciples, many of whom have walked the razor's edge of strict Vaisnava discipline for decades?

Please read Prabhupada's books. Read Necatar of Instruction. Read Caitanya Caritamrta. Such envy of Vaisnavas is always condemned. 

Lenny Sislac: These are affected devotees who have got their lifes spoiled, what else should they say? Ok, there is the option of joining the GM and there you are told to never look back. These are the real devotees who never criticize? Unfortunately they are guru-tyagis who reject Prabhupada of having installed a disastrous managerial system. Thats what ISKCON accomplishes, a trial of devastation, thousands of Western devotees left and still they speak of apasampradaya, teaching what is right and wrong? 

Akruranatha Dasa: ‎>> The whole point of debate is July 9th Letter. And not the court case.<<

I agree they are two separate points, and should be addressed separately. I do not agree that the property question should not be addressed. I can see why you would ...want to leave it aside, because IB clearly has no legal right to the property and you do not want to admit that your cause is wrong and immoral on that question, which clearly it is.

As to the debate about the July 9th letter, I doubt there is anything new to be said. As far as I am concerned, "henceforward" in the context of the letter simply meant "from now until Srila Prabhupada's departure or any other intervening change". If Srila Prabhupada had wanted Tamal Krishna Maharaja to write that he was establishing a ritvik system for after his departure, it would have had to be a much more explicit letter.

Moreover, it would be expected to explain and defend what would appear to be a departure from the entire Gaudiya Vaisnava tradition and from everything Srila Prabhupada had written and spoken of about guru tattva and parampara for years. Srila Prabhupada always said he was not inventing something new but giving exactly the teachings he had received from his Guru Maharaja, without adding or subtracting anything. Therefore I cannot accept any interpretation of the July 9th letter that suggests that with a stroke of a pen -- Not even his own pen but TKG's -- and without any defense or justification on the basis of guru, sadhu and sastra, Srila Prabhupada would perpetuate such a departure from tradition.

But I admit, you and I will probably never agree about that. What I would like you to agree to, and I think you should admit, is that IB has no legal right to usurp the property of ISKCON, namely the temple on Hare Krishna Hills, and shouold graciously accept that the temple should be turned over to management that is loyal to the GBC and ISKCON. You may not agree with ISKCON or want to have any part of it. I can accept that. But then, why should you use its name and unlawfully usurp its rightful property? And why are you unwilling to discuss that specific issue?

Tim Lee: And lets not forget that two women wrote to me saying they are never going to the Boston temple because of the rats they saw there, nevermind hundreds of others who never go there period anymore. Lets face it, the GBC is putting Krishna into a ghetto on purpose so they can spend millions and millions and millions making sure lawyers have nice Mercedes. One of their followers told me recently -- they will spend more and more millions in the courts "for the next 100 years" -- so they can have the deity live with rats? Why not spend millions getting these deities out of the ghetto conditions they created? Where does Prabhupada say, put the deity into a ghetto and buy new Mercedes for lawyers? Sorry Akruranatha, the July 9th letter does not say vote in 230 gurus, most of whom would subsequently bloop. Where is that stated in the July 9th letter? ys pd

Lenny Sislac Thanks Tim Lee, that looks like property sharks who only care about real estate prices? Waiting till the price goes up and having a bold real estate business running. Those who live within the temples are of no interest for years.

Dayamayi Radhika ‎@ Frank, it is waste of time to reply to ur comments. we have many times defeated you. But you are such a (no words to describe you) that you keep repeating the same things. @ Akruranath:<<But what gives you the right to put conditions on giving back ISKCON's property? How did it become IB's property? It is IM's property.>>

Bhumi says Prabhupada's order is vomit (ys pd)

PADA: Dear prabhus, First of all, the current BBT "book editor" is Jayadvaita swami, and he has been chopping up the books of Srila Prabhupada without ANY authority for years now, despite that Srila Prabhupada said he is a "rascal editor" (unquote) and that HIS books needed to be published in the original (un-edited) way. That was and is HIS order, that of Srila Prabhupada, and he made Yasodanandan promise him he would keep track that HIS books would not be edited, and so the first thing Jayadvaita team did was -- to kick out Yasodanandan dasa SO THEY COULD CHANGE THE BOOKS!

Of course then they put in a bunch of molesters at the school where Yasodanandan was teaching in Vrndavana, so they changed that order as well, the DIRECT ORDER from Srila Prabhupada that Yasodananadana was to remain there at the school TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN.

Jayadvaita hated to see that the children were being protected so he helped remove their protector. And this is a bona fide editor? People who toss out the orders of their guru are not qualified to edit on iota of anything. And just to let you know what is the quality of the person the GBC selects to re-write all the books, Jayadvaita swami (Jay Israel) has also wrote a paper for the GBC saying that his gurus are often "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children."

Is this the SAME person we want to have editing our books? Lets debate this, which previous acharyas said that they could edit the books of their guru, after he ordered that the books not be edited? Which previous devotee from any religion says that the gurus in that religion are having illicit sex with men, women and children?

Jayadvaita swami also told me that Srila Prabhupada was not in his books, anymore than Krishna is in the wall, and all the devotees laughed their heads off, and one of them said, Hiranyakasipu ALSO said Krishna was not in the walls, everyone was amazed that Jayadvaita was quoting Hiranyakasipu.

Anyway, where is the direct order to change the books, that was made after he ordered them not to be changed? And why do we want people who say acharyas are illicit sex to even speak at our temples, what to say of them altering our scriptures?

The really good recent news? Jayadvaita's team has spent MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS in India on lawyers (not on books as they were ordered but instead Jayadvaita has been paying to have his lawyers buy Mansions so the lawyers can put the deity in a ghetto Bingo hall like he has done in NYC) and the result is that just now some of my web site was printed out and submitted to the SUPREME COURT court of India and NOW the HIGH COURT JUDGES are reading my site, all thanks to Jayadvaita, he has finally spent a few million dollars giving me free publicity, so at least he has done something right.

Jayadvaita has paid millions giving me free publicity so that the highest judges could start to read my site. Maybe he feels guilty and just wants the truth to come out now and that is why he is spending millions to advertise our web site? This is amazing, Jayadvaita swami has not printed books as he was ordered to do, he spent millions on lawyers instead, and the result is, he is giving me free publicity? Why didn't he spend these miilions on books instead of helping lawyers buy beef steaks? Where was Jayadvaita ordered to contribute millions to the beef steaks for lawers fund, and quit using that money for books? These are just a few questions, I could go on for two more hours, lets start here. ys pd

BHUMI DASI: Severe vomit alert!

PADA: Srila Prabhupada ORDERED that his books should be printed in the original way, and Bhumi says Srila Prahbupada is in her opinion, a piece of vomit. Why does Bhumi say Srila Prabhupada is vomit? I told you all this way going on, these people like Bhumi are saying Srila Prabhupada is vomit, what more needs to be added here? ys pd
Kara Middleton LOL