Thursday, March 31, 2011
Shaktiseer prabhu writes (we must forgive vaishnava offenses) ISKCON
I agree, but they are not saying they are kanishta / sadhaka vaishnavas with faults, they are saying they are acharyas without faults. Yes, the kanisthas and priests can fall, and we should forgive that, BUT you seem to forget, as soon as I said they are priests (ritviks) and not gurus, Sridhara and Tripurari said I was totally bogus, they said they are not priests (who can fall), they insisted that the GBC are gurus, and acharyas, and should be worshipped as rati keli, so they think the messiahs are fallen, that is the issue you keep forgetting, we already said the neophytes should be forgiven, you forgot that what they are saying is: that they are gurus not kanisthas, just like Kailasha has forgot the name of his live guru for the past 35 years. ys pd
Wednesday, March 30, 2011
Question of Guru Falldown (ISKCON)
From: ------ dasa
Subject: Re: Guru falling down answer
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 5:33 PM
Dear ----- Prabhu
Please accept my pranams. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thank you for your email. I also included several articles as attachments, read and study them. Basically there are several points for consideration.
1) Srila Prabhupada never gave most of these "fallen guru" quotes or elaborated on fallen acaryas or deviant gurus, rather His approach always was that the bona fide spiritual master does not fall down and is always perfectly situated.
2) None of Srila Prabhupada's predecessor acaryas in our disciplic succession have ever exhibited any symptoms of fallen souls or fallen down.
3) The kind of activities we have seen from some of these ISKCON gurus since post November 1977 include, but are not necessarily limited to, homosexuality, illicit sex with their own disciples, sex with children, intoxication, embezzlement, stealing from the temple, orchestrating beating devotees, kicking devotes out of the temples, and in some instances orchestrating the assassination of vaishnavas etc.
So the question comes to mind? Which previous Vaishnava acaryas have ever behaved like this? Answer: No one.
4) In 1996 Jayadvaita made a paper where he stated that "some of our ISKCON gurus had illicit sex with men, women and possibly children as well".
So Prabhu do the following exercise. Go to the original unrevised Bhagavad-Gita As It Is and go to the end of the introduction and the list if all the 32 spiritual masters in our disciplic succession. Did anyone of them ever exhibit "illicit sex with men, women and possibly children as well"? Did anyone of them ever engage in any of the deviant activities listed above?
5) These "fallen guru" quotes given by the previous acaryas do not refer to the bona fide acaryas given in our disciplic succession, they refer to sahajiyas, caste goswamis, professional bhagavatam reciters, and other deviants who pose as vaishnavas, but not bona fide vaishnava acaryas.
6) The following is from "Our Living Guru". I respectfully suggest that you carefully read this booklet again and study it.
2.4) Q. But in the Vedic scriptures, don't we find examples of liberated souls who seem to display material conditioning?
A. Seeming and being are, of course, two different things. As we are aware, the Vedic scriptures sing of the liberated eternal preceptor guru's character, his spiritual purity.
One the other hand, the "living gurus," fallen early into embarrassing manifestations of material conditioning or impurity, have strained to explain it all away by singing of the eternal preceptor's alleged character lapses.
For example, in their August 1980 GBC report, in an attempt to explain some deviant behaviors of some of the "living gurus" their advocates alleged, "Even Bhishmadeva, who was one of the great Mahajanas or authorities in understanding Krishna consciousness, was affected by this materialistic association (of women and money). If even Bhishmadeva can be affected by materialistic association, then what to speak of ourselves?"
Lest we be misled, Srila Prabhupada certifies Bhishma's absolutely liberated status, "Sri Bhishmadeva is a great devotee of the Lord in the relation of servitorship (an eternally pure relationship with God)." (SB 1.9.34)
"As a Mahajana or authority he was on the level of Brahma, Narada and Shiva, although he was a human being. Qualification on a par with the great demigods is possible only by attainment of spiritual perfection." (SB 1.9.34)
The 1980 G.B.C. report continued: "There are examples in the Srimad Bhagavatam of great devotees having difficulties... Lord Brahma was affected by sex attraction for his daughter." (!)
But Srila Prabhupada establishes Lord Brahma's liberated and pure status: "This extraordinary immorality on the part of Lord Brahma was heard to have occurred in some particular kalpa (epoch), but it could not have happened in the kalpa in which Brahma heard directly from the Lord the four essential verses of Srimad Bhagavatam, because the Lord benedicted Brahma, after giving him lessons on the Bhagavatam, that he would never be bewildered in any kalpa whatsoever. This indicates that before the hearing of Srimad Bhagavatam he might have fallen victim to such sensuality, but after hearing Srimad Bhagavatam directly from the Lord there was no possibility of such failures." (SB 3.12.28)
When did Lord Brahma experience some apparent sex attraction? Before hearing the essential Bhagavatam verses. Yet the GBC failed entirely to mention that Lord Brahma's illusion had occurred before he heard the Bhagavatam verses. The GBC implies, quite unfairly, that Brahma's illusion occurred after he had heard the Bhagavatam and had become a liberated eternal preceptor guru.
Srila Prabhupada further explains, with brilliant clarity, the nature of Lord Brahma's position in a letter, dated 23rd of March 1969, to Himavati devi dasi: "There are many other stories also, but such apparent falling is without any influence to very, very advanced devotees. A neophyte should always be careful. One should not discuss about such great devotee's apparent fall-down. Just like one should not discuss about the sun who evaporates urine from the earth; it is possible for the sun to do it, and still remains the sun, but for ordinary man if he lives in a filthy place he will be infected. So Lord Shiva or Lord Brahma, they are highly elevated devotees, and we should not try to criticize about their behavior even though it appears against the rules.
"...So far Lord Brahma and his attraction for his daughter; this illustration should be taken by conditioned souls, that even a person like Brahma is sometimes victimized, how much careful we should be. Not that even Brahma was enticed, so we shall become enticed more and more. This is an example set for us by great devotees."
It is thus clear that a progressing candidate on the path of devotional service must use the greatest caution while analyzing the exalted position of Brahma and other Mahajanas.
The GBC also claimed about another exalted liberated devotee, "Dhruva maharaja became overwhelmed by anger at the yakshas for killing his brother."
Srila Prabhupada clarifies, "Dhruva Maharaja was a liberated soul, and actually he was not angry with anyone, but because he was a ruler, it was his duty to become angry for some time in order to keep the law and order of the state." (SB 4.11.13)
This "living guru" tactic of devaluing the great liberated devotees has continued in an expanding pattern throughout the years. For instance, the GBC's "living guru" author, who wrote the "Guru Reform Notebook" says on page 15, "On studying Dhruva Maharaja's case, I do not see at first how it applies to me and my GBC guru Godbrothers. We didn't pursue an obvious material desire as did Dhruva..." In short, the living guru author tries to paint the GBC's guru project, with all of it's odious degradations, sectarian violence, and so on, as somehow higher than a factual pure devotee.
Srila Prabhupada writes, "Dhruva Maharaja was a maha-bhagavata, or a first class pure devotee..." (SB 4.12.8)
"It is our duty to remember always that in comparison to Dhruva Maharaja, we are very insignificant. We cannot do anything like what Dhruva Maharaja did for self realization, because we are absolutely incompetent to execute such service." (SB 4.8.73)
And "By associating constantly with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in his heart, Dhruva Maharaja naturally became equal to the greatest, Brahman, by His association and thus he became the heaviest, and the entire universe trembled." (SB 4.8.78)
The 1980 G.B.C. report even chides Arjuna, for outright "losing sight of Krishna": "Arjuna had difficulties in the beginning of the battle of Kuruksetra, but it was due to his losing sight of Krishna, not because of his accepting a superior position to Krishna. It was Arjuna's duty to accept the Supreme Lord as his chariot driver in his fight against Duryodhana's forces. Similarly, it is the duty of ISKCON's initiating gurus to sit on their Vyasasanas (high seats meant for pure devotees) and defeat the ignorance of the age by their strong preaching. Some of our men may have difficulties, but their problems are due to their having lost sight of Krishna for the moment, not due to sitting on a Vyasasana." The GBC's rather boldly compare the abominable illicit activities manifest in the "living guru" project to the so-called illusions of Krishna's eternally pure associate.
As recently as 7 January 1990, while giving a Bhagavatam class, prior to a temple president's meeting on the so-called guru issue, a "living guru" based in east India, (also one of the coauthors of the August 1980 GBC report) alleged that sometimes, for a few minutes, great eternally liberated guru devotees such as Bhishma and Arjuna fall under Mahamaya, the Lord's deluding energy, which covers those who are envious of the Lord.
Yet Srila Prabhupada has very different things to say: "Arjuna conquered both sleep and ignorance because of his friendship with Krishna. As a great devotee of Krishna, Arjuna could not forget Krishna even for a moment, because that is the nature of a devotee. Either in waking or sleeping, a devotee of the Lord can never be free of thinking of Krishna's name, form, qualities, and pastimes. Thus a devotee of Krishna can conquer both sleep and ignorance simply by thinking of Krishna constantly. That is called Krishna consciousness." (Bhagavad-gita As It Is 1.24)
And Srila Prabhupada also writes of Arjuna, "His intelligence could not be polluted at any time, because he was a devotee and constant companion of the Lord, as is clear in the fourth chapter of Bhagavad-gita. Apparently Arjuna's intelligence became polluted because otherwise there would not have been a chance to deliver the teachings of Bhagavad Gita for the good of all polluted conditioned souls engaged in material bondage by the conception of the false material body..." (SB 1.9.36)
Srila Prabhupada further illuminates Arjuna's awesome liberated status: "Although Arjuna is with Krishna in innumerable different material universes at one time, still there is only one spirit soul who is Arjuna. This spiritual soul expands into many different bodies, and thus you can understand that there are also incarnations of devotees as well as incarnation of Krishna. This is the power of the spirit soul, that it is unlimited. Such conception cannot be understood while one is in the conditioned state." (Letter, 12 December 1968)
Further the concept that a pure devotee (fully realized) may forget Krishna, even for a moment, is not supported by Srila Prabhupada and the previous acharyas. "As indicated by the word satatam and nityasah, which mean 'always,' 'regularly,' or 'every day,' a pure devotee constantly remembers Krishna and meditates upon Him....A pure devotee cannot forget the Supreme Lord for a moment, and similarly the Supreme Lord cannot forget His pure devotee for a moment." (Bhagavad-gita As It Is 8.14)
The author of the "Guru Reform Notebook" (pages 24-25) alleges that great liberated gurus and even the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself may also be great offenders, while he stretches even further the attempts to "explain away" the many discrepancies manifested in the GBC's "living guru" project: "Examples of great persons who considered themselves great offenders:
1. Lord Balarama, after killing Romaharshana Suta.
2. Parasurama, after killing the kshatriyas.
3. Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, who refused to take mango, saying, 'No, I am an offender.'
4. Srila Prabhupada, who begged forgiveness in his last days for offending his Godbrothers.
5. Narottama dasa and Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who lament in their songs not exactly for having committed offenses, but for wasting their lives in material life."
And how do we know that the great, liberated eternal preceptor gurus never become materially conditioned? Because the Vedic literature and Prabhupada's personal example confirm it.
How do we know that the "living gurus" are conditioned souls unqualified to hold the post of eternal preceptor gurus? Because, as seen above, they exhibit conditioned defects. They incorrectly misinterpret the Vedic scriptures by their imperfect senses. Some of them even boast that Krishna's pure parampara gurus, such as the "living guru" project's members, "make mistakes all the time."
Then they amalgamate those conditioned defects into larger illusions which they forward as position papers, (GBC philosophical reports) and such illusions are supposed to be "the absolute truth." This means that they are then exhibiting the cheating propensity. Finally, as described above, they shamelessly and unauthorizedly promote all their material defects as the qualifications of the great acharyas and Mahajanas.
Very dangerously, the "living gurus" portray the completely Krishna conscious eternal preceptor gurus as faulty, materially affected, mixed devotees. So again, Srila Prabhupada observes the great danger of this deviant philosophy: mixing the contaminated with the pure in Cc. Adi-Lila 7.72: "thus they clear their path to hell."
Srila Prabhupada clarifies the reasons for the false criticisms towards real acharyas: "Influenced by an envious temperament and dissatisfied because of an attitude of sense gratification, mundaners criticize a real acharya. In fact, however, a bona fide acharya is nondifferent from the Personality of Godhead, and therefore to envy such an acharya is to envy the Personality of Godhead Himself. This will produce an effect subversive to transcendental realization..." (Cc. Adi 1.46)
And he remarks in Sri Isopanisad, Mantra twelve, of the potential consequences of misleading innocent people by falsely posing as an eternal guru, "By a false display of religious sentiments, they present a show of devotional service while indulging in all sorts of immoral activities. In this way they pass as spiritual masters and devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acharyas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. To mislead the people in general, they themselves become so-called acharyas, but they do not even follow the principles of the acharyas.
"These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly stated in Bhagavad-gita (16. 19-20) that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell. Sri Isopanisad confirms that these pseudo-religionists are headed toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after the completion of their spiritual master business, which they conduct simply for sense gratification."
Srila Prabhupada's spiritual master Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, warned, in 1916 in a book titled Prakrita rasa sata dushani. "Mahajana pathe dosa kabhu guru deya na. The genuine spiritual master never finds fault with the devotional path shown by the great devotees (mahajanas)." Further he states, "guru mahajana vakye bheda kabhu haya na. There can never be any difference between the explanations of the bona fide spiritual master and the teachings of the great devotees (mahajanas)."
Thus, several fundamental of pillars of "living guru" projects_since time immemorial_are: 1) That pure devotees forget Krishna, for a moment or longer. 2) That the Personality of Godhead, Lord Balarama, Parasurama, and so on, may have committed errors or may be considered as offenders. 3) The maha-bhagavata acharyas, even including Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura or Srila Prabhupada himself, may have made been in illusion, committed mistakes, misrepresented things or may have even been offenders. All of these conceptions, as verbalized by the GBCs, are considered as forbidden by Srila Prabhupada.
How about the issue of bad gurus?
2.12) Q. Let's not be overly idealistic. We need gurus, but inevitably, as recent history has shown, sometimes a reasonably good guru can become a bad guru. Isn't that right?
A. Srila Prabhupada: "Well, if he is bad, how can he become guru? (Laughter) How can iron become gold? Actually, a guru cannot be bad, for if someone is bad, he cannot be a guru. You cannot say 'bad guru.' That is a contradiction...
"A guru cannot be bad. There is no question of a bad guru, any more than a red guru or a white guru. Guru means 'genuine guru.'" (Science of Self-realization, "Saints and Swindlers")
Before 1977 in the presence of the bona fide guru, Srila Prabhupada there was no question of a "bad guru." Or if there was one, such a silly concoction would create about a shower of laughter. But now the "living guru" project has created thousands of unanswered questions about their "bad gurus." And no one is laughing. Indeed, the "living guru" project will have one shunned, excommunicated, even threatened for the "sin" of repeating Prabhupada's clear instruction "there is no question of a bad guru."
Srila Prabhupada explains the incident of Lord Brahma.
5.1) Q. In Prabhupada's guru succession, the Brahma-Madhava-Gaudiya sampradaya, do we find any examples of anyone with material contamination?
A. Absolutely not. Many would-be-gurus, especially within the "living guru" project, emphatically claim otherwise, possibly to downplay their own mistakes, illusions, cheating and various material contaminations. For instance, after incidents of drug taking and homosexuality, the post-1977 guru project claimed, in their August 1980 GBC report: "There are examples in the Srimad Bhagavatam of great devotees having difficulties. ...Lord Brahma was affected by sex attraction for his daughter."
This offensive attack on the parampara is a continued theme. The notion that "Krishna's pure guru successors are subject to contamination" has expanded in the "living guru" project. For example, a "living guru" based in eastern India, lectured in January 1990, that sometimes, for a few minutes, Krishna's great successor gurus, such as Lord Brahma, become bewildered by maha-maya (mundane illusion).
Who is that rascal? In a morning walk conversation recorded on 10 December 1975, in Vrindavana, Srila Prabhupada turns this claim on its head:
Disciple: I was recently told by one devotee that the acharya does not have to be a pure devotee.
Prabhupada: What?
Disciple: That the acharya does not have to be a pure devotee.
Prabhupada: Who is that rascal? Who said?. . . Who is that rascal? The acharya does not have to be a pure devotee?
Disciple: Nitai said it... He said that Lord Brahma is the acharya in the Brahma sampradaya, but yet he is sometimes afflicted by passion. So therefore he is saying that it appears that the acharya does not have to be a pure devotee...
Prabhupada: He manufactured his idea. Therefore he's a rascal. Therefore he's a rascal. Nitai has become an authority?
Disciple: No. Actually he said that he thought...
Prabhupada: He thought something rascaldom, and he is expressing that. Therefore he is more rascal. These things are going on. As soon as he reads some books, he becomes acharya, whatever rascal he may be. These things are to be seen in this way, that, 'Such an exalted person_he sometimes becomes passionate, so how much we shall be careful.' That is the instruction. It is not that the acharya has become passionate. Therefore I shall become passionate. I am strict follower of the acharya. These rascals say."
The "rascal" devotee mentioned above, who maintained that the parampara could be contaminated, was later banned entirely from ISKCON by Srila Prabhupada himself. This extreme action by Prabhupada was so rare, few devotees recall any other similar banishment.
Clearly, Srila Prabhupada saw the "contaminated succession" idea as extremely dangerous and insidious, yet this idea now forms one of the primary pillars of the "living guru" project's philosophy.
In a letter dated 13 February 1968, Srila Prabhupada lists Krishna's sampradaya, His cent-percent uncontaminated (guru) successors: "My guru maharaja was in the 10th generation from Lord Chaitanya. We are eleventh from Lord Chaitanya. The disciplic succession is as follows: 1. Sri Krishna, 2. Brahma, 3. Narada, 4. Vyasa, 5. Madhva,... 19. Madhavendra Puri, 20. Ishvara Puri, 21. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, 22. (Swarupa, Sanatan) Rupa, 23. (Jiva) Raghunatha, 24. Krishna dasa, 25. Narottama, 26. Viswanatha, 27. (Baladeva) Jagannatha, 28. (Bhaktivinode) Gurakishore, 29. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, 30. Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta.
This letter may help you to undersand
Position of the bona fide spiritual master.
Srila Prabhupada letter, New Vrindaban, 10 June, 1969
London My Dear Mukunda,
Please accept my blessings. I thank you very much for your letter of June 3, 1969, and I have noted the contents carefully. Regarding Mataji Syamadevi's temple in Leicester, your version is all right, and I am not very interested to establish a Hindu temple. Perhaps you know from the very beginning I never described my movement as Hindu religion. Religion means the bona fide process by which we understand God and the first class religion is that which teaches people to develop love for God. To know or accept the authority of God is one thing, but to love God is another. Generally, people are interested in material comforts and they make God as the supplying agent. This kind of devotion is not purified. It is contaminated by material desires, but when one is elevated to the position of giving everything to God out of love and affection, that is the first class position. We are teaching this philosophy in the name of Krishna Consciousness, and it is applicable to all sober persons. The Bhagavat principle is that because we can be happy simply by developing our dormant love of God, this is our first business.
I understand that you have now three houses under consideration: two of them are immediately available, but one requires some money. Why don't you pay the money? What is the amount? If you are short of money and the house is very nice, then we can arrange for the money. You have stated that Mr. George Harrison will be seeing the Archbishop for granting us a church, and that is a very nice idea, but so far I see Mr. Harrison promised so many things which were not fulfilled practically. So instead of waiting for the church, if you can get one of the three houses now under consideration, that will be better. Your Sankirtana Movement is going on even with no house, so there is no cause of lamentation. You must go on with Sankirtana and selling our literature, never mind there is temple or not. I am very pleased that you have already sold 1,000 BTGs, and I assume that it will not be too difficult for you to sell 5,000 magazines. That will solve part of your financial problems.
The answer to your Istagosthi questions are as follows: Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance. And who is a liberated person? One who knows Krishna. It is stated in BG, fourth chapter, anyone who knows Krishna in truth is immediately liberated, and after quitting the present body, he immediately goes to Krishna. That means he becomes a resident of Krishna Loka. As soon as one is liberated he is immediately a resident of Krishna Loka, and anyone who knows the truth of Krishna can become Spiritual Master. That is the version of Lord Caitanya. So to summarize the whole thing, it is to be understood that a bona fide Spiritual Master is a resident of Krishna Loka.
Your next question, whether the Spiritual Master was formerly a conditioned soul, actually a bona fide Spiritual Master is never a conditioned soul. There are three kinds of liberated persons. They are called 1) sadhan siddha, 2) kripa siddha, and 3) nitya siddha. Sadhan siddha means one who has attained perfection by executing the regulative principles of devotional service. Kripa siddha means one who has attained perfection by the special mercy of Krishna and the Spiritual Master, and nitya siddha means one who was never contaminated. The symptoms of nitya siddha is that from the beginning of his life he is attached to Krishna, and he is never tired of rendering service to Krishna. So we have to know what is what by these symptoms. But when one is actually on the siddha platform there is no such distinction as to who is sadhan, kripa, or nitya siddha. When one is siddha, there is no distinction what is what. Just like when the river water glides down to the Atlantic Ocean nobody can distinguish which portion was the Hudson River or some other river. Neither is there any necessity to make any such distinction. Actually, every living entity is eternally uncontaminated, although he may be in the material touch. This is the version of the Vedas. Asanga ayam purusha—the living entity is uncontaminated. Just like when there is a drop of oil in water you can immediately distinguish the oil from the water, and the water never mixes with the oil. Similarly, a living entity, although in material contact, is always distinct from the matter.
You are correct when you say that when the Spiritual Master speaks it should be taken that Krishna is speaking. That is a fact. A Spiritual Master must be liberated. It does not matter if he has come from Krishna Loka or he is liberated from here. But he must be liberated. The science of how one is liberated is explained above, but when one is liberated, there is no need of distinction whether he has come directly from Krishna Loka or from the material world. But in the broader sense everyone comes from Krishna Loka. When one forgets Krishna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krishna he is liberated. I hope this will clear up these points. I hope this will meet you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
P.S. I am very much anxious to hear from Janaki why she does not write?
Yours in Srila Prabhupada's service
From: ------------
Subject: Guru falling down question
Dear ----------- prabhu,
Dandavat pranams. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
One friend of mine (disciple of RNS) sent me a document which has a section that 'gurus could fall down'. I was wondering if you could shed some light on this. It says the following :
====
The guru is a devotee serving as initiating and/or instructing spiritual master. There is no reason to believe that he or she cannot have problems. Srila Prabhupada explains: "A spiritual master must be very careful in this regard. Such business is going on all over the world. The spiritual master does not accept a materially opulent disciple just to advertise the fact that he has such a big disciple. He knows that by associating with such visayi disciples, he may fall down. One who accepts a visayi disciple is not a bona fide spiritual mas-ter. Even if he is, his position may be damaged due to association with an unscrupulous vitsayi."(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 24.330p)
Similar references are available for liberated souls and maha-bhagavatas.
In fact, what to do when a guru falls down or has difficulties is explicitly discussed in the book Krishna bhajanamrita written by Srila Narahari Sarakara, a close associate of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. This important book was referred to by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and its instructions form the basis of several ISKCON laws in regard to gurus’ falldowns, etc.
So guru fall down, though not common, is possible and has to be dealt with according to scriptural recommendations – not by rejecting the time-honoured guru system and resorting to the ritvika concoction.
====
Also there is another statement by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in Sri Harinama Chintamani, as below :
From Hari-nama-cintamani
by Thakura Bhaktivinoda
Sastha pariccheda: Gurvavagya Kon sthane guru tyaga korite haibe-
Now I will discuss the situation when one can give up one's spiritual master.
Tave jodi erupa ghatana kabhu haya.
Asatsange gurura jogyata haya ksaya..
It unfortunately happens sometimes that by bad association, the spiritual master looses his qualifications.
Prathame chilena tini sadguru-pradhana.
Pare nama-aparadhe haina hatagyana..
In the beginning when the guru gave initiation to the disciple, he was sadguru-pradhana or a very qualified bona-fide spiritual master but later due to get involved with the ten offenses, his knowledge was diminished.
Vaisnava vidvaya kori' chadi' nama-rasa.
Krame krame hana artha-kaminira basa..
He gave up relishing the chanting of the Holy Names due to his envy towards the Vaisnavas. Due to this he gradually came under the control of the desires for money and women.
Sei guru chadi' sisya Sri Krsnakrpaya.
Sadguru labhiya punah suddhanama gaya..
One should reject such guru and again accept an advanced bonafide spiritual master and thus again relish the pure chanting of the Holy Name.
Thank you.
Your servant,
-----------
Subject: Re: Guru falling down answer
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2011, 5:33 PM
Dear ----- Prabhu
Please accept my pranams. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada. Thank you for your email. I also included several articles as attachments, read and study them. Basically there are several points for consideration.
1) Srila Prabhupada never gave most of these "fallen guru" quotes or elaborated on fallen acaryas or deviant gurus, rather His approach always was that the bona fide spiritual master does not fall down and is always perfectly situated.
2) None of Srila Prabhupada's predecessor acaryas in our disciplic succession have ever exhibited any symptoms of fallen souls or fallen down.
3) The kind of activities we have seen from some of these ISKCON gurus since post November 1977 include, but are not necessarily limited to, homosexuality, illicit sex with their own disciples, sex with children, intoxication, embezzlement, stealing from the temple, orchestrating beating devotees, kicking devotes out of the temples, and in some instances orchestrating the assassination of vaishnavas etc.
So the question comes to mind? Which previous Vaishnava acaryas have ever behaved like this? Answer: No one.
4) In 1996 Jayadvaita made a paper where he stated that "some of our ISKCON gurus had illicit sex with men, women and possibly children as well".
So Prabhu do the following exercise. Go to the original unrevised Bhagavad-Gita As It Is and go to the end of the introduction and the list if all the 32 spiritual masters in our disciplic succession. Did anyone of them ever exhibit "illicit sex with men, women and possibly children as well"? Did anyone of them ever engage in any of the deviant activities listed above?
5) These "fallen guru" quotes given by the previous acaryas do not refer to the bona fide acaryas given in our disciplic succession, they refer to sahajiyas, caste goswamis, professional bhagavatam reciters, and other deviants who pose as vaishnavas, but not bona fide vaishnava acaryas.
6) The following is from "Our Living Guru". I respectfully suggest that you carefully read this booklet again and study it.
2.4) Q. But in the Vedic scriptures, don't we find examples of liberated souls who seem to display material conditioning?
A. Seeming and being are, of course, two different things. As we are aware, the Vedic scriptures sing of the liberated eternal preceptor guru's character, his spiritual purity.
One the other hand, the "living gurus," fallen early into embarrassing manifestations of material conditioning or impurity, have strained to explain it all away by singing of the eternal preceptor's alleged character lapses.
For example, in their August 1980 GBC report, in an attempt to explain some deviant behaviors of some of the "living gurus" their advocates alleged, "Even Bhishmadeva, who was one of the great Mahajanas or authorities in understanding Krishna consciousness, was affected by this materialistic association (of women and money). If even Bhishmadeva can be affected by materialistic association, then what to speak of ourselves?"
Lest we be misled, Srila Prabhupada certifies Bhishma's absolutely liberated status, "Sri Bhishmadeva is a great devotee of the Lord in the relation of servitorship (an eternally pure relationship with God)." (SB 1.9.34)
"As a Mahajana or authority he was on the level of Brahma, Narada and Shiva, although he was a human being. Qualification on a par with the great demigods is possible only by attainment of spiritual perfection." (SB 1.9.34)
The 1980 G.B.C. report continued: "There are examples in the Srimad Bhagavatam of great devotees having difficulties... Lord Brahma was affected by sex attraction for his daughter." (!)
But Srila Prabhupada establishes Lord Brahma's liberated and pure status: "This extraordinary immorality on the part of Lord Brahma was heard to have occurred in some particular kalpa (epoch), but it could not have happened in the kalpa in which Brahma heard directly from the Lord the four essential verses of Srimad Bhagavatam, because the Lord benedicted Brahma, after giving him lessons on the Bhagavatam, that he would never be bewildered in any kalpa whatsoever. This indicates that before the hearing of Srimad Bhagavatam he might have fallen victim to such sensuality, but after hearing Srimad Bhagavatam directly from the Lord there was no possibility of such failures." (SB 3.12.28)
When did Lord Brahma experience some apparent sex attraction? Before hearing the essential Bhagavatam verses. Yet the GBC failed entirely to mention that Lord Brahma's illusion had occurred before he heard the Bhagavatam verses. The GBC implies, quite unfairly, that Brahma's illusion occurred after he had heard the Bhagavatam and had become a liberated eternal preceptor guru.
Srila Prabhupada further explains, with brilliant clarity, the nature of Lord Brahma's position in a letter, dated 23rd of March 1969, to Himavati devi dasi: "There are many other stories also, but such apparent falling is without any influence to very, very advanced devotees. A neophyte should always be careful. One should not discuss about such great devotee's apparent fall-down. Just like one should not discuss about the sun who evaporates urine from the earth; it is possible for the sun to do it, and still remains the sun, but for ordinary man if he lives in a filthy place he will be infected. So Lord Shiva or Lord Brahma, they are highly elevated devotees, and we should not try to criticize about their behavior even though it appears against the rules.
"...So far Lord Brahma and his attraction for his daughter; this illustration should be taken by conditioned souls, that even a person like Brahma is sometimes victimized, how much careful we should be. Not that even Brahma was enticed, so we shall become enticed more and more. This is an example set for us by great devotees."
It is thus clear that a progressing candidate on the path of devotional service must use the greatest caution while analyzing the exalted position of Brahma and other Mahajanas.
The GBC also claimed about another exalted liberated devotee, "Dhruva maharaja became overwhelmed by anger at the yakshas for killing his brother."
Srila Prabhupada clarifies, "Dhruva Maharaja was a liberated soul, and actually he was not angry with anyone, but because he was a ruler, it was his duty to become angry for some time in order to keep the law and order of the state." (SB 4.11.13)
This "living guru" tactic of devaluing the great liberated devotees has continued in an expanding pattern throughout the years. For instance, the GBC's "living guru" author, who wrote the "Guru Reform Notebook" says on page 15, "On studying Dhruva Maharaja's case, I do not see at first how it applies to me and my GBC guru Godbrothers. We didn't pursue an obvious material desire as did Dhruva..." In short, the living guru author tries to paint the GBC's guru project, with all of it's odious degradations, sectarian violence, and so on, as somehow higher than a factual pure devotee.
Srila Prabhupada writes, "Dhruva Maharaja was a maha-bhagavata, or a first class pure devotee..." (SB 4.12.8)
"It is our duty to remember always that in comparison to Dhruva Maharaja, we are very insignificant. We cannot do anything like what Dhruva Maharaja did for self realization, because we are absolutely incompetent to execute such service." (SB 4.8.73)
And "By associating constantly with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in his heart, Dhruva Maharaja naturally became equal to the greatest, Brahman, by His association and thus he became the heaviest, and the entire universe trembled." (SB 4.8.78)
The 1980 G.B.C. report even chides Arjuna, for outright "losing sight of Krishna": "Arjuna had difficulties in the beginning of the battle of Kuruksetra, but it was due to his losing sight of Krishna, not because of his accepting a superior position to Krishna. It was Arjuna's duty to accept the Supreme Lord as his chariot driver in his fight against Duryodhana's forces. Similarly, it is the duty of ISKCON's initiating gurus to sit on their Vyasasanas (high seats meant for pure devotees) and defeat the ignorance of the age by their strong preaching. Some of our men may have difficulties, but their problems are due to their having lost sight of Krishna for the moment, not due to sitting on a Vyasasana." The GBC's rather boldly compare the abominable illicit activities manifest in the "living guru" project to the so-called illusions of Krishna's eternally pure associate.
As recently as 7 January 1990, while giving a Bhagavatam class, prior to a temple president's meeting on the so-called guru issue, a "living guru" based in east India, (also one of the coauthors of the August 1980 GBC report) alleged that sometimes, for a few minutes, great eternally liberated guru devotees such as Bhishma and Arjuna fall under Mahamaya, the Lord's deluding energy, which covers those who are envious of the Lord.
Yet Srila Prabhupada has very different things to say: "Arjuna conquered both sleep and ignorance because of his friendship with Krishna. As a great devotee of Krishna, Arjuna could not forget Krishna even for a moment, because that is the nature of a devotee. Either in waking or sleeping, a devotee of the Lord can never be free of thinking of Krishna's name, form, qualities, and pastimes. Thus a devotee of Krishna can conquer both sleep and ignorance simply by thinking of Krishna constantly. That is called Krishna consciousness." (Bhagavad-gita As It Is 1.24)
And Srila Prabhupada also writes of Arjuna, "His intelligence could not be polluted at any time, because he was a devotee and constant companion of the Lord, as is clear in the fourth chapter of Bhagavad-gita. Apparently Arjuna's intelligence became polluted because otherwise there would not have been a chance to deliver the teachings of Bhagavad Gita for the good of all polluted conditioned souls engaged in material bondage by the conception of the false material body..." (SB 1.9.36)
Srila Prabhupada further illuminates Arjuna's awesome liberated status: "Although Arjuna is with Krishna in innumerable different material universes at one time, still there is only one spirit soul who is Arjuna. This spiritual soul expands into many different bodies, and thus you can understand that there are also incarnations of devotees as well as incarnation of Krishna. This is the power of the spirit soul, that it is unlimited. Such conception cannot be understood while one is in the conditioned state." (Letter, 12 December 1968)
Further the concept that a pure devotee (fully realized) may forget Krishna, even for a moment, is not supported by Srila Prabhupada and the previous acharyas. "As indicated by the word satatam and nityasah, which mean 'always,' 'regularly,' or 'every day,' a pure devotee constantly remembers Krishna and meditates upon Him....A pure devotee cannot forget the Supreme Lord for a moment, and similarly the Supreme Lord cannot forget His pure devotee for a moment." (Bhagavad-gita As It Is 8.14)
The author of the "Guru Reform Notebook" (pages 24-25) alleges that great liberated gurus and even the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself may also be great offenders, while he stretches even further the attempts to "explain away" the many discrepancies manifested in the GBC's "living guru" project: "Examples of great persons who considered themselves great offenders:
1. Lord Balarama, after killing Romaharshana Suta.
2. Parasurama, after killing the kshatriyas.
3. Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, who refused to take mango, saying, 'No, I am an offender.'
4. Srila Prabhupada, who begged forgiveness in his last days for offending his Godbrothers.
5. Narottama dasa and Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who lament in their songs not exactly for having committed offenses, but for wasting their lives in material life."
And how do we know that the great, liberated eternal preceptor gurus never become materially conditioned? Because the Vedic literature and Prabhupada's personal example confirm it.
How do we know that the "living gurus" are conditioned souls unqualified to hold the post of eternal preceptor gurus? Because, as seen above, they exhibit conditioned defects. They incorrectly misinterpret the Vedic scriptures by their imperfect senses. Some of them even boast that Krishna's pure parampara gurus, such as the "living guru" project's members, "make mistakes all the time."
Then they amalgamate those conditioned defects into larger illusions which they forward as position papers, (GBC philosophical reports) and such illusions are supposed to be "the absolute truth." This means that they are then exhibiting the cheating propensity. Finally, as described above, they shamelessly and unauthorizedly promote all their material defects as the qualifications of the great acharyas and Mahajanas.
Very dangerously, the "living gurus" portray the completely Krishna conscious eternal preceptor gurus as faulty, materially affected, mixed devotees. So again, Srila Prabhupada observes the great danger of this deviant philosophy: mixing the contaminated with the pure in Cc. Adi-Lila 7.72: "thus they clear their path to hell."
Srila Prabhupada clarifies the reasons for the false criticisms towards real acharyas: "Influenced by an envious temperament and dissatisfied because of an attitude of sense gratification, mundaners criticize a real acharya. In fact, however, a bona fide acharya is nondifferent from the Personality of Godhead, and therefore to envy such an acharya is to envy the Personality of Godhead Himself. This will produce an effect subversive to transcendental realization..." (Cc. Adi 1.46)
And he remarks in Sri Isopanisad, Mantra twelve, of the potential consequences of misleading innocent people by falsely posing as an eternal guru, "By a false display of religious sentiments, they present a show of devotional service while indulging in all sorts of immoral activities. In this way they pass as spiritual masters and devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acharyas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. To mislead the people in general, they themselves become so-called acharyas, but they do not even follow the principles of the acharyas.
"These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly stated in Bhagavad-gita (16. 19-20) that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell. Sri Isopanisad confirms that these pseudo-religionists are headed toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after the completion of their spiritual master business, which they conduct simply for sense gratification."
Srila Prabhupada's spiritual master Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, warned, in 1916 in a book titled Prakrita rasa sata dushani. "Mahajana pathe dosa kabhu guru deya na. The genuine spiritual master never finds fault with the devotional path shown by the great devotees (mahajanas)." Further he states, "guru mahajana vakye bheda kabhu haya na. There can never be any difference between the explanations of the bona fide spiritual master and the teachings of the great devotees (mahajanas)."
Thus, several fundamental of pillars of "living guru" projects_since time immemorial_are: 1) That pure devotees forget Krishna, for a moment or longer. 2) That the Personality of Godhead, Lord Balarama, Parasurama, and so on, may have committed errors or may be considered as offenders. 3) The maha-bhagavata acharyas, even including Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura or Srila Prabhupada himself, may have made been in illusion, committed mistakes, misrepresented things or may have even been offenders. All of these conceptions, as verbalized by the GBCs, are considered as forbidden by Srila Prabhupada.
How about the issue of bad gurus?
2.12) Q. Let's not be overly idealistic. We need gurus, but inevitably, as recent history has shown, sometimes a reasonably good guru can become a bad guru. Isn't that right?
A. Srila Prabhupada: "Well, if he is bad, how can he become guru? (Laughter) How can iron become gold? Actually, a guru cannot be bad, for if someone is bad, he cannot be a guru. You cannot say 'bad guru.' That is a contradiction...
"A guru cannot be bad. There is no question of a bad guru, any more than a red guru or a white guru. Guru means 'genuine guru.'" (Science of Self-realization, "Saints and Swindlers")
Before 1977 in the presence of the bona fide guru, Srila Prabhupada there was no question of a "bad guru." Or if there was one, such a silly concoction would create about a shower of laughter. But now the "living guru" project has created thousands of unanswered questions about their "bad gurus." And no one is laughing. Indeed, the "living guru" project will have one shunned, excommunicated, even threatened for the "sin" of repeating Prabhupada's clear instruction "there is no question of a bad guru."
Srila Prabhupada explains the incident of Lord Brahma.
5.1) Q. In Prabhupada's guru succession, the Brahma-Madhava-Gaudiya sampradaya, do we find any examples of anyone with material contamination?
A. Absolutely not. Many would-be-gurus, especially within the "living guru" project, emphatically claim otherwise, possibly to downplay their own mistakes, illusions, cheating and various material contaminations. For instance, after incidents of drug taking and homosexuality, the post-1977 guru project claimed, in their August 1980 GBC report: "There are examples in the Srimad Bhagavatam of great devotees having difficulties. ...Lord Brahma was affected by sex attraction for his daughter."
This offensive attack on the parampara is a continued theme. The notion that "Krishna's pure guru successors are subject to contamination" has expanded in the "living guru" project. For example, a "living guru" based in eastern India, lectured in January 1990, that sometimes, for a few minutes, Krishna's great successor gurus, such as Lord Brahma, become bewildered by maha-maya (mundane illusion).
Who is that rascal? In a morning walk conversation recorded on 10 December 1975, in Vrindavana, Srila Prabhupada turns this claim on its head:
Disciple: I was recently told by one devotee that the acharya does not have to be a pure devotee.
Prabhupada: What?
Disciple: That the acharya does not have to be a pure devotee.
Prabhupada: Who is that rascal? Who said?. . . Who is that rascal? The acharya does not have to be a pure devotee?
Disciple: Nitai said it... He said that Lord Brahma is the acharya in the Brahma sampradaya, but yet he is sometimes afflicted by passion. So therefore he is saying that it appears that the acharya does not have to be a pure devotee...
Prabhupada: He manufactured his idea. Therefore he's a rascal. Therefore he's a rascal. Nitai has become an authority?
Disciple: No. Actually he said that he thought...
Prabhupada: He thought something rascaldom, and he is expressing that. Therefore he is more rascal. These things are going on. As soon as he reads some books, he becomes acharya, whatever rascal he may be. These things are to be seen in this way, that, 'Such an exalted person_he sometimes becomes passionate, so how much we shall be careful.' That is the instruction. It is not that the acharya has become passionate. Therefore I shall become passionate. I am strict follower of the acharya. These rascals say."
The "rascal" devotee mentioned above, who maintained that the parampara could be contaminated, was later banned entirely from ISKCON by Srila Prabhupada himself. This extreme action by Prabhupada was so rare, few devotees recall any other similar banishment.
Clearly, Srila Prabhupada saw the "contaminated succession" idea as extremely dangerous and insidious, yet this idea now forms one of the primary pillars of the "living guru" project's philosophy.
In a letter dated 13 February 1968, Srila Prabhupada lists Krishna's sampradaya, His cent-percent uncontaminated (guru) successors: "My guru maharaja was in the 10th generation from Lord Chaitanya. We are eleventh from Lord Chaitanya. The disciplic succession is as follows: 1. Sri Krishna, 2. Brahma, 3. Narada, 4. Vyasa, 5. Madhva,... 19. Madhavendra Puri, 20. Ishvara Puri, 21. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, 22. (Swarupa, Sanatan) Rupa, 23. (Jiva) Raghunatha, 24. Krishna dasa, 25. Narottama, 26. Viswanatha, 27. (Baladeva) Jagannatha, 28. (Bhaktivinode) Gurakishore, 29. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, 30. Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta.
This letter may help you to undersand
Position of the bona fide spiritual master.
Srila Prabhupada letter, New Vrindaban, 10 June, 1969
London My Dear Mukunda,
Please accept my blessings. I thank you very much for your letter of June 3, 1969, and I have noted the contents carefully. Regarding Mataji Syamadevi's temple in Leicester, your version is all right, and I am not very interested to establish a Hindu temple. Perhaps you know from the very beginning I never described my movement as Hindu religion. Religion means the bona fide process by which we understand God and the first class religion is that which teaches people to develop love for God. To know or accept the authority of God is one thing, but to love God is another. Generally, people are interested in material comforts and they make God as the supplying agent. This kind of devotion is not purified. It is contaminated by material desires, but when one is elevated to the position of giving everything to God out of love and affection, that is the first class position. We are teaching this philosophy in the name of Krishna Consciousness, and it is applicable to all sober persons. The Bhagavat principle is that because we can be happy simply by developing our dormant love of God, this is our first business.
I understand that you have now three houses under consideration: two of them are immediately available, but one requires some money. Why don't you pay the money? What is the amount? If you are short of money and the house is very nice, then we can arrange for the money. You have stated that Mr. George Harrison will be seeing the Archbishop for granting us a church, and that is a very nice idea, but so far I see Mr. Harrison promised so many things which were not fulfilled practically. So instead of waiting for the church, if you can get one of the three houses now under consideration, that will be better. Your Sankirtana Movement is going on even with no house, so there is no cause of lamentation. You must go on with Sankirtana and selling our literature, never mind there is temple or not. I am very pleased that you have already sold 1,000 BTGs, and I assume that it will not be too difficult for you to sell 5,000 magazines. That will solve part of your financial problems.
The answer to your Istagosthi questions are as follows: Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance. And who is a liberated person? One who knows Krishna. It is stated in BG, fourth chapter, anyone who knows Krishna in truth is immediately liberated, and after quitting the present body, he immediately goes to Krishna. That means he becomes a resident of Krishna Loka. As soon as one is liberated he is immediately a resident of Krishna Loka, and anyone who knows the truth of Krishna can become Spiritual Master. That is the version of Lord Caitanya. So to summarize the whole thing, it is to be understood that a bona fide Spiritual Master is a resident of Krishna Loka.
Your next question, whether the Spiritual Master was formerly a conditioned soul, actually a bona fide Spiritual Master is never a conditioned soul. There are three kinds of liberated persons. They are called 1) sadhan siddha, 2) kripa siddha, and 3) nitya siddha. Sadhan siddha means one who has attained perfection by executing the regulative principles of devotional service. Kripa siddha means one who has attained perfection by the special mercy of Krishna and the Spiritual Master, and nitya siddha means one who was never contaminated. The symptoms of nitya siddha is that from the beginning of his life he is attached to Krishna, and he is never tired of rendering service to Krishna. So we have to know what is what by these symptoms. But when one is actually on the siddha platform there is no such distinction as to who is sadhan, kripa, or nitya siddha. When one is siddha, there is no distinction what is what. Just like when the river water glides down to the Atlantic Ocean nobody can distinguish which portion was the Hudson River or some other river. Neither is there any necessity to make any such distinction. Actually, every living entity is eternally uncontaminated, although he may be in the material touch. This is the version of the Vedas. Asanga ayam purusha—the living entity is uncontaminated. Just like when there is a drop of oil in water you can immediately distinguish the oil from the water, and the water never mixes with the oil. Similarly, a living entity, although in material contact, is always distinct from the matter.
You are correct when you say that when the Spiritual Master speaks it should be taken that Krishna is speaking. That is a fact. A Spiritual Master must be liberated. It does not matter if he has come from Krishna Loka or he is liberated from here. But he must be liberated. The science of how one is liberated is explained above, but when one is liberated, there is no need of distinction whether he has come directly from Krishna Loka or from the material world. But in the broader sense everyone comes from Krishna Loka. When one forgets Krishna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krishna he is liberated. I hope this will clear up these points. I hope this will meet you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
P.S. I am very much anxious to hear from Janaki why she does not write?
Yours in Srila Prabhupada's service
From: ------------
Subject: Guru falling down question
Dear ----------- prabhu,
Dandavat pranams. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
One friend of mine (disciple of RNS) sent me a document which has a section that 'gurus could fall down'. I was wondering if you could shed some light on this. It says the following :
====
The guru is a devotee serving as initiating and/or instructing spiritual master. There is no reason to believe that he or she cannot have problems. Srila Prabhupada explains: "A spiritual master must be very careful in this regard. Such business is going on all over the world. The spiritual master does not accept a materially opulent disciple just to advertise the fact that he has such a big disciple. He knows that by associating with such visayi disciples, he may fall down. One who accepts a visayi disciple is not a bona fide spiritual mas-ter. Even if he is, his position may be damaged due to association with an unscrupulous vitsayi."(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila 24.330p)
Similar references are available for liberated souls and maha-bhagavatas.
In fact, what to do when a guru falls down or has difficulties is explicitly discussed in the book Krishna bhajanamrita written by Srila Narahari Sarakara, a close associate of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. This important book was referred to by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and its instructions form the basis of several ISKCON laws in regard to gurus’ falldowns, etc.
So guru fall down, though not common, is possible and has to be dealt with according to scriptural recommendations – not by rejecting the time-honoured guru system and resorting to the ritvika concoction.
====
Also there is another statement by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in Sri Harinama Chintamani, as below :
From Hari-nama-cintamani
by Thakura Bhaktivinoda
Sastha pariccheda: Gurvavagya Kon sthane guru tyaga korite haibe-
Now I will discuss the situation when one can give up one's spiritual master.
Tave jodi erupa ghatana kabhu haya.
Asatsange gurura jogyata haya ksaya..
It unfortunately happens sometimes that by bad association, the spiritual master looses his qualifications.
Prathame chilena tini sadguru-pradhana.
Pare nama-aparadhe haina hatagyana..
In the beginning when the guru gave initiation to the disciple, he was sadguru-pradhana or a very qualified bona-fide spiritual master but later due to get involved with the ten offenses, his knowledge was diminished.
Vaisnava vidvaya kori' chadi' nama-rasa.
Krame krame hana artha-kaminira basa..
He gave up relishing the chanting of the Holy Names due to his envy towards the Vaisnavas. Due to this he gradually came under the control of the desires for money and women.
Sei guru chadi' sisya Sri Krsnakrpaya.
Sadguru labhiya punah suddhanama gaya..
One should reject such guru and again accept an advanced bonafide spiritual master and thus again relish the pure chanting of the Holy Name.
Thank you.
Your servant,
-----------
Tuesday, March 29, 2011
Conversations 3/29/11 (ISKCON)
Srila Prabhupada siddhanta: The bonafide gurus like A.C. Bhaktivedanta, Bhaktisiddhanta, Bhaktivinod, Rupa Gosvami etc are given the title `Prabhupada` How come none of the Iskcon gurus are addressed as `Prabhupad`? Because they are nowhere near bonafide...just cheap imitation of the real thing! All glory to the Ritvit Guru Acarja Srila Prabhupad!
SrilaPrabhupada Siddhanta NANDA KUMAR DAS! For knowledge we have to go to the right person, tattva darsi. Tattva darsi means, 'one who has actually seen or experienced the Absolute Truth. The reason why none of these Iskcon gurus are not addressed as Prabhupada is because they are not tattva darsi. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama adhikari. (Nectar of Instruction, txt 5) Hence the reason Srila Prabhupada set up the Rtvik Guru Acarya System to save us fron being cheated by fourth class Vaisnavas. "This book Nectar of Devotion, if you read regularly and try to understand, this means you are associating with Rupa Gosvami directly. And if you act accordingly, then you are serving their lotus feet" (N.O.D lecture, Oct 20, 1972, Vrndavan)
Similarly, by acting according to Srila Prabhupadas Rtvik order we are serving Him directly."Never think I am absent from you. Physical presence is not essential! Presence by message (hearing) is real touch...we feel always the presence of our past Acaryas simply by their immutable instructions." (Letter to students, August 2nd. 1967, Vrndavan)
Jack Prasad ....BG.4.2...'evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo vidhuh, all of you please read chaptr.4 of BG again and again this science of Krsna Consciousness has to be recieved in a disciplic succession @ rithviks..if you feel you can adhere to Srila Prabhupada's teaching without any adulterations and think you will maintain a common platform of devotional services without any defilement of the self so good luck to you all because krsna says BG4.34 that one must approach a 'vapu' not 'vani' form of spiritual master, there must be an interaction of enquires, there should be service....there should be a daily association of such personality in the sadhaka's life for guidance. Yes i agree that Prabhupada has given all that one requires to go back to Godhead so did Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, so did Narada Muni, so did Sri Krsna Himself, than where is the need of Srila Prabhupada in a rithviks life? Why dont just surrender to Narada, Vayasa, Krsna.....no no no! there parampara must go on for we are all supposed to become Gurus..'kiba vipra kiba sudhra
Silaprabhupada siddhanta .....one can not just start calling anyone "prabhupada" time and qualification is required be patient sir, even His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada was reluctant of this title and was awarded this towards the end of his physical presence be patient sir.
Jack Prasad ...and please do not block me from this page....i would like to see if you can convince me otherwise...thank you.
SrilaPrabhupada Siddhanta Jack Prasad, in a C.C. purport Prabhupad mentions that every acarja has his own(specific) way of conducting(his) movement. i.e. Bhaktisiddhanta Gosvami formed a GBC that was never herd of before.That was his own(specific)way. Prabhupad set ...up the Ritvik guru system according to his own(specific)ways etc. `Therefore, mental speculation or dry arguements cannot help receive knowledge.`B.G.4.34 purport. As far as physically approaching the spiritual master goes..thats nonsense too because so many devotees were initiated by Prabhupad who had and still have not physically met him! According to your understanding that makes their initiations null n void! Prabhupad wanted us to take shelter/guildance from our elder Ritvik godbrothers and recive the connection to his disciplic succession through them..officiating acarjas!So whether Srila Prabhupad is on the otherside of the world or in another universe,you can always hook up ji.Prabhupad is empowered to liberate the entire universe(Jagat-Guru),let alone a few.
PADA: Dear Jack prabhu, Srila Prabhupad wrote a letter once saying, anyone who says "all glories to Sri Guru" is a mayavadi. You have to give the name of your guru. So far, you have not given any name for your guru at all? So far we have no idea: Do you accept any guru at all? You are talking about guru, but it seems you have none at all? ys pd
SrilaPrabhupada SiddhantaJack Prasad, billion followers over next 10,000yrs as predicted in shastra. The problem is that 4th class Vaisnavs have taken it upon themselves to deny/defy his final orders..and as Prabhupad prophetically predicted himself 'When the ...acarja leaves, chaos enters!' Find out the destination of one who offends the bonafide acarja Jack? You try asking Tamal Krsna swami? Oh thats right, he entered Vaikunthas through the trunk of a tree and his last words were 'You ....... idiot!` Thats a transcendental way to go out eh? Was he talking to the taxi driver or himself? Jai Om Vishnupad!
SrilaPrabhupada Siddhanta NANDA KUMAR DAS! For knowledge we have to go to the right person, tattva darsi. Tattva darsi means, 'one who has actually seen or experienced the Absolute Truth. The reason why none of these Iskcon gurus are not addressed as Prabhupada is because they are not tattva darsi. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama adhikari. (Nectar of Instruction, txt 5) Hence the reason Srila Prabhupada set up the Rtvik Guru Acarya System to save us fron being cheated by fourth class Vaisnavas. "This book Nectar of Devotion, if you read regularly and try to understand, this means you are associating with Rupa Gosvami directly. And if you act accordingly, then you are serving their lotus feet" (N.O.D lecture, Oct 20, 1972, Vrndavan)
Similarly, by acting according to Srila Prabhupadas Rtvik order we are serving Him directly."Never think I am absent from you. Physical presence is not essential! Presence by message (hearing) is real touch...we feel always the presence of our past Acaryas simply by their immutable instructions." (Letter to students, August 2nd. 1967, Vrndavan)
Jack Prasad ....BG.4.2...'evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo vidhuh, all of you please read chaptr.4 of BG again and again this science of Krsna Consciousness has to be recieved in a disciplic succession @ rithviks..if you feel you can adhere to Srila Prabhupada's teaching without any adulterations and think you will maintain a common platform of devotional services without any defilement of the self so good luck to you all because krsna says BG4.34 that one must approach a 'vapu' not 'vani' form of spiritual master, there must be an interaction of enquires, there should be service....there should be a daily association of such personality in the sadhaka's life for guidance. Yes i agree that Prabhupada has given all that one requires to go back to Godhead so did Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, so did Narada Muni, so did Sri Krsna Himself, than where is the need of Srila Prabhupada in a rithviks life? Why dont just surrender to Narada, Vayasa, Krsna.....no no no! there parampara must go on for we are all supposed to become Gurus..'kiba vipra kiba sudhra
Silaprabhupada siddhanta .....one can not just start calling anyone "prabhupada" time and qualification is required be patient sir, even His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada was reluctant of this title and was awarded this towards the end of his physical presence be patient sir.
Jack Prasad ...and please do not block me from this page....i would like to see if you can convince me otherwise...thank you.
SrilaPrabhupada Siddhanta Jack Prasad, in a C.C. purport Prabhupad mentions that every acarja has his own(specific) way of conducting(his) movement. i.e. Bhaktisiddhanta Gosvami formed a GBC that was never herd of before.That was his own(specific)way. Prabhupad set ...up the Ritvik guru system according to his own(specific)ways etc. `Therefore, mental speculation or dry arguements cannot help receive knowledge.`B.G.4.34 purport. As far as physically approaching the spiritual master goes..thats nonsense too because so many devotees were initiated by Prabhupad who had and still have not physically met him! According to your understanding that makes their initiations null n void! Prabhupad wanted us to take shelter/guildance from our elder Ritvik godbrothers and recive the connection to his disciplic succession through them..officiating acarjas!So whether Srila Prabhupad is on the otherside of the world or in another universe,you can always hook up ji.Prabhupad is empowered to liberate the entire universe(Jagat-Guru),let alone a few.
PADA: Dear Jack prabhu, Srila Prabhupad wrote a letter once saying, anyone who says "all glories to Sri Guru" is a mayavadi. You have to give the name of your guru. So far, you have not given any name for your guru at all? So far we have no idea: Do you accept any guru at all? You are talking about guru, but it seems you have none at all? ys pd
SrilaPrabhupada SiddhantaJack Prasad, billion followers over next 10,000yrs as predicted in shastra. The problem is that 4th class Vaisnavs have taken it upon themselves to deny/defy his final orders..and as Prabhupad prophetically predicted himself 'When the ...acarja leaves, chaos enters!' Find out the destination of one who offends the bonafide acarja Jack? You try asking Tamal Krsna swami? Oh thats right, he entered Vaikunthas through the trunk of a tree and his last words were 'You ....... idiot!` Thats a transcendental way to go out eh? Was he talking to the taxi driver or himself? Jai Om Vishnupad!
People cannot identify their guru? ISKCON)
[PADA: This happens all the time, someone challenges me, then fails to identify their guru or lineage. Odd huh, they are experts on guru, but they have no guru! ys pd]
Srila Prabhupada Siddhanta Dear PADA, its obvious Jack Prasad doesn't have a guru and thinks himself an authority on our disciplic succession. Dont hold your breath for a reply.
PADA: Jack Prasad we are thankful, you finally admit, you have no guru at all, because notice, despite our asking, Jack still fails to identify: who his guru is. That means he thinks he is a messiah himself, everyone else has to listen to him and he does not need any teacher at all. Since Jack admits he has no guru at all, Srila Prabhupada says, this is impersonalism and mayavada. Now that Jack de facto admits he is a mayavavada and he has no guru at all, he should not comment on topics of guru. Srila Prabhupada says: a person who fails to indentify a guru means: he is his own guru, he thinks he is another messiah himself. Jack has no guru at all, he is a self appointed authority, told ya! ys pd
Srila Prabhupada Siddhanta Dear PADA, its obvious Jack Prasad doesn't have a guru and thinks himself an authority on our disciplic succession. Dont hold your breath for a reply.
PADA: Jack Prasad we are thankful, you finally admit, you have no guru at all, because notice, despite our asking, Jack still fails to identify: who his guru is. That means he thinks he is a messiah himself, everyone else has to listen to him and he does not need any teacher at all. Since Jack admits he has no guru at all, Srila Prabhupada says, this is impersonalism and mayavada. Now that Jack de facto admits he is a mayavavada and he has no guru at all, he should not comment on topics of guru. Srila Prabhupada says: a person who fails to indentify a guru means: he is his own guru, he thinks he is another messiah himself. Jack has no guru at all, he is a self appointed authority, told ya! ys pd
Was Gandhi bi-sexual?
http://www.samachar.com/Letters-suggest-Gandhi-was-bisexual-Pulitzer-Prize-author-ld3kPRcdhag.html
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
Sunday, March 27, 2011
ISKCON Bangalore Gaura Purnima (slide show). ys pd
http://www.iskconbangalore.org/photo-eassay/Sri_Gaura_Poornima_2011/
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
Do not change the books! (ISKCON) ys pd
http://www.causes.com/causes/496823-please-restore-shreela-prabhupad-s-original-as-it-is-books/about
CLCK HERE!
CLCK HERE!
Prabhupadanuga temple thriving in Singapore (ISKCON)
https://picasaweb.google.com/112897757096987392551/SriGauraPoornima201102#
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
Saturday, March 26, 2011
Hidden temple in NYC (an apartment converted to a temple) ISKCON
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/05/hidden-temple-in-east-vil_n_751561.html?ref=fb&src=sp
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
Giant mess in Germany detailed by the GBC itself (ISKCON)
http://news.iskcon.com/node/3524/2011-03-26/dina_sharana_dasi_becomes_second_ever_female_gbc_member
CLICK HERE!
[Result of their "living gurus" -- ISKCON Germany was bankrupted]
CLICK HERE!
[Result of their "living gurus" -- ISKCON Germany was bankrupted]
Friday, March 25, 2011
ISKCON suffers from -- too much Prabhupada? (says BV Tripurari)
http://www.chakra.org/discussions/PersonalJul06_06.html
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
I am the Lord of all I survey! (Jayatirtha / ISKCON bogus guru)
[PADA: Head chopped off for having sex with the wife of a disciple. ys pd]
Franco comments on BOOK CHANGES (ISKCON) ys pd
Franco Wells: "Dear senior devotees, how can some be so indiferent to the changes happening to Srila Prabhupada's original books? Don't turn your eyes the other way - like nothing is happening - like bob dylan said, how many times must a man turn his head and pretend that he just does not see? A karmi said this - many of you lived, ate, and chanted and served him and still act like everything is all right!
Anyone can write their version on the sastras, but they have to make it their own version, not over writing the original writer. His legecy belongs to all the human race and not to any group of persons. With all respect to Srila Bhaktivedanta, his devotional service given in these books should be allowed back to the streets again.
Any good devotee agrees with this but those in the system in control maybe dont want problems – and say that errors must be corrected, but as you anylize the original and the new version it has a different flavour of words, words he considerd nessary are missing for our understanding.
To obey the spiritual master is only for the neophyte ignorant begginers, or for all devotees? This is a bad example for new ones that listen to what he said clearly - stay with the originals - it is a good exercize to analize the changed and the original in case it seems proper gramaticly perhaps, but the point is the writers essence and rasa - I humble think and see many many Prabhupad s devotees want the original books reprinted again.
I AM NOT IN TO POLITICS - But this is not good for the movement Bhaktivedanta created. This creates divisions when the energy should be preaching lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu prophecy of sharing the holy name, its time retake the path - but as i see nothings gonna change the different views or interests on the table.
Someone most reprint them —-artificial impositions never are well taken. -Loyalty to Bhaktivedantas original holy books - for a better world.
-----Acchedya das PERMALINK March 25, 2011 IN HIS OWN WORDS Well said Locananada and Franco, they are both saying the right thing, why there must be this change to be done in Srila Prabhupada's books, it seems there most be more to it than only gramaticle short comings. Just imagine, here in germany we have a great poet his name is herman hesse, and his books are still the same since the time he wrote them, thats normal, and nobody would dare to change them, since thats the beauty of them, that we can read this peace of art, as the poet has laid them down for us.
In his own words we like to read Srila Prabhupada, just to smell the gentle
fragrance of Srila Prabhupada's own words. We liked it this way really,
since he is mutch more than only a good poet who wrote ” siddharta ” .
He is the real acarya of iskcon and his writings a the lawbooks for a long time. My hope is, that the real iskcon ” Srila Prabhupada’s iskcon ” will one day be united and the faithfull servants of truth will print the original books again. L"
Anyone can write their version on the sastras, but they have to make it their own version, not over writing the original writer. His legecy belongs to all the human race and not to any group of persons. With all respect to Srila Bhaktivedanta, his devotional service given in these books should be allowed back to the streets again.
Any good devotee agrees with this but those in the system in control maybe dont want problems – and say that errors must be corrected, but as you anylize the original and the new version it has a different flavour of words, words he considerd nessary are missing for our understanding.
To obey the spiritual master is only for the neophyte ignorant begginers, or for all devotees? This is a bad example for new ones that listen to what he said clearly - stay with the originals - it is a good exercize to analize the changed and the original in case it seems proper gramaticly perhaps, but the point is the writers essence and rasa - I humble think and see many many Prabhupad s devotees want the original books reprinted again.
I AM NOT IN TO POLITICS - But this is not good for the movement Bhaktivedanta created. This creates divisions when the energy should be preaching lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu prophecy of sharing the holy name, its time retake the path - but as i see nothings gonna change the different views or interests on the table.
Someone most reprint them —-artificial impositions never are well taken. -Loyalty to Bhaktivedantas original holy books - for a better world.
-----Acchedya das PERMALINK March 25, 2011 IN HIS OWN WORDS Well said Locananada and Franco, they are both saying the right thing, why there must be this change to be done in Srila Prabhupada's books, it seems there most be more to it than only gramaticle short comings. Just imagine, here in germany we have a great poet his name is herman hesse, and his books are still the same since the time he wrote them, thats normal, and nobody would dare to change them, since thats the beauty of them, that we can read this peace of art, as the poet has laid them down for us.
In his own words we like to read Srila Prabhupada, just to smell the gentle
fragrance of Srila Prabhupada's own words. We liked it this way really,
since he is mutch more than only a good poet who wrote ” siddharta ” .
He is the real acarya of iskcon and his writings a the lawbooks for a long time. My hope is, that the real iskcon ” Srila Prabhupada’s iskcon ” will one day be united and the faithfull servants of truth will print the original books again. L"
GBC reports document guru failures (ISKCON) ys pd
PADA: OK, apparently Akuranatha cannot keep track of his own statements? (1) He said he backs the current GBC, (2) the current GBC reports say -- over and over and over -- that their gurus have been corrected, monitored, censured and sometimes "rectified" for falling into illicit sex. This is all documented by the GBC. Their own documents say their gurus have resigned, been removed, censured, voted out, excommunicated, and out of the over 230 voted in since 1977, most have fallen away -- often into illicit sex and drugs and false Gaudiya Matha teachings, and all this is WRITTEN BY THEM and contained in the WRITTEN reports that the GBC have written since 1977. These GBC reports contain lists of all kinds of people being voted in as gurus, and there are NOW many missing names of the gurus who were voted in since, as we all know, they mostly BLOOPED. And even though they are voted in every year at Mayapura, the list of gurus gets smaller every year according to their own papers, and when the list of gurus is given, most of those voted in have now blooped. Now Akruranatha says, these GBC reports were not written by the GBC? He says all these reports about their Vishnupada acharyas etc. and in sum "gurus" falling down -- never happened? Where has he been! When is he going to actually read their papers, their papers say, they are making gurus, and their gurus are falling. Its all documented! ys pd
ISKCON gurus are kanisthas (Maha vishnu swami)
http://www.prasadam.co.uk/articles/167-iskcon-and-the-kaid-syndrome.html
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
Conspiracy theories (ISKCON)
To: diksa108@hotmail.com
Thanks prabhu, nice article. I recently discussed some devotees who are into Illuminati-ness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CVA3-xeR9s
Also, feel free to check out my blog: www.krishna1008.blogspot.com,
videos at www.youtube.com/pada1008, and some of my writings collated at www.harekrsna.org. Thanks, ys Puranjana dasa
Skyke: pada1008
Phone: 707-477-4102
Thanks prabhu, nice article. I recently discussed some devotees who are into Illuminati-ness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CVA3-xeR9s
Also, feel free to check out my blog: www.krishna1008.blogspot.com,
videos at www.youtube.com/pada1008, and some of my writings collated at www.harekrsna.org. Thanks, ys Puranjana dasa
Skyke: pada1008
Phone: 707-477-4102
Thursday, March 24, 2011
Gurus being managed by committee? ISKCON
PADA: Akruranatha does not seem to understand what a guru is? A guru is a person who is free of the four material defects, and anyone who says gurus are defective is a severe offender, gurusuh narah matih narakah sah, i.e. anyone who says gurus are defective is a resident of hell (narakah). Then Akrurantha says, these gurus are full of faults and defects --- ??? Worse, anyone who takes shelter of Srila Prabhupada like our devotees in Bangalore, they are sued? ys pd
Akruranatha Dasa >>A guru is a person who is free of the four material defects, and anyone who says gurus are defective is a severe offender, gurusuh narah matih narakah sah<<
Well, I think we all agree that Srila Prabhupada was such a guru, and Srila Prabh...upada established the GBC as ultimate managing authority of ISKCON. Why don't you accept it? Did he make a mistake? He should have appointed Puranjana (Tim Lee) as the authority instead?
What do you say Puranjana? Why did Srila Prabhupada appoint the GBC? If it was not a mistake, why don't you follow? Why didn't he say, "GBC is ultimate authority until such time as Puranjana determines it is not following my instructions?" Would that have been a more perfect decision? Was it a mistake not to do so?
PADA: OK, now Akruranatha agrees with us: that the GBC was only appointed to be managers. OK, except they are saying they are gurus (people who receive direct dictation from God), not managers? Does Akruranatha think that the Church manager is an... acharya? The manager of the Catholic church down the raod, is a guru free from defects because he is a manager? No, a manager is a manager, since 1967 the ISKCON managers were always falling down in ISKCON, and this is why Srila Prabhupada said they are not fit for sannyasa and gurus. Now we have "managers" who control the acharyas -- and so every year the GBC's "managers" are, according to their documents: ... "2/3 show of hands" voting in, voting out, suspending, censuring, remanding, commanding, monitoring (gurus like Satsvarupa), and "managing" the acharyas? OK, Akruranatha has forgot the whole point, since the acharyas are under the direct control of Krishna (acharyam mam vijnaniya) and chaitya guru inspires and preaches through the guru, now Akruranatha says, no, Krishna does not dictate to the acharyas, the acharyas are "managed"? So this is the problem, under the Akruranatha idea, Krishna is no longer the manager of the acharyas, the GBC is? This is simply not possible, no one can take the place of God. ys pd
Akruranatha Dasa >>A guru is a person who is free of the four material defects, and anyone who says gurus are defective is a severe offender, gurusuh narah matih narakah sah<<
Well, I think we all agree that Srila Prabhupada was such a guru, and Srila Prabh...upada established the GBC as ultimate managing authority of ISKCON. Why don't you accept it? Did he make a mistake? He should have appointed Puranjana (Tim Lee) as the authority instead?
What do you say Puranjana? Why did Srila Prabhupada appoint the GBC? If it was not a mistake, why don't you follow? Why didn't he say, "GBC is ultimate authority until such time as Puranjana determines it is not following my instructions?" Would that have been a more perfect decision? Was it a mistake not to do so?
PADA: OK, now Akruranatha agrees with us: that the GBC was only appointed to be managers. OK, except they are saying they are gurus (people who receive direct dictation from God), not managers? Does Akruranatha think that the Church manager is an... acharya? The manager of the Catholic church down the raod, is a guru free from defects because he is a manager? No, a manager is a manager, since 1967 the ISKCON managers were always falling down in ISKCON, and this is why Srila Prabhupada said they are not fit for sannyasa and gurus. Now we have "managers" who control the acharyas -- and so every year the GBC's "managers" are, according to their documents: ... "2/3 show of hands" voting in, voting out, suspending, censuring, remanding, commanding, monitoring (gurus like Satsvarupa), and "managing" the acharyas? OK, Akruranatha has forgot the whole point, since the acharyas are under the direct control of Krishna (acharyam mam vijnaniya) and chaitya guru inspires and preaches through the guru, now Akruranatha says, no, Krishna does not dictate to the acharyas, the acharyas are "managed"? So this is the problem, under the Akruranatha idea, Krishna is no longer the manager of the acharyas, the GBC is? This is simply not possible, no one can take the place of God. ys pd
Post samadhi crew now says, guru lives?
The Narayana Maharaja folks claim that Srila Prabhupada is the post samadhi dead and gone guru, but their guru "lives forever." What! ys pd]
Dramatic drop in numbers of GBC at Mayapura (ISKCON)
http://prabhupadavision.com/2010/11/2009-mayapur-gbc-meetings/
CLICK HERE!
[ALSO explains "Good ole boys" child abuser club in Mayapura]
CLICK HERE!
[ALSO explains "Good ole boys" child abuser club in Mayapura]
Save Srila Prabhupada's original books (Brasil) ISKCON
http://www.orkut.com/Community?cmm=74830761
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
Book on deity worship needs help (ISKCON) ys pd
Hare Krsna Prabhus -- Pranams - Glories to Prabhupada, We are looking for Mother Silavati to help us in writing a book on sadhana bhakti -- Prabhupada refers to her in his letters, she, having written the first book on Deity Seva. Myself and a few others are in the process of writing a book on the complete process of sadhana bhakti as outlined in Prabhupadas instructions. If anyone out there can help us locate Mother Silavati,or that book, we would be greatly appreciative. thanks. damaghosa das
What is prasadam? ISKCON
This was my whole point in 1978, that if we offer bhogha to people who are lusty like Jayatirtha et al., then the bhogha will never become prasadam, rather it will become infused with lust and not pure prasadam. No one has ever defeated me on this point, its a fact, bhogha has to be offered exclusively to the pure devotee or else it becomes infused with mundane qualities and turns people into -- Pralambhasuras, hey, hey, hey. Srila Prabhupada personally told me that, if there is any impure thing in the offering of bhogha, it is never accepted by Krishna. We cannot offer bhogha to conditioned souls, that spolis the whole process, and this is forbidden in shastra. If we offer bhogha to lusty Pralambhasuras, we become what we eat. ys pd
Wednesday, March 23, 2011
Gaura Purnima in Hong Kong 2011 (ISKCON) ys pd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYjnKiODnGM
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
Sanat Got His Karma (hey, hey) ys pd (ISKCON)
Bhaktavatsaladasa Dasa I agree the last one did it for me! the guy who got his face caved in by the post hole digger and if that isnt karma I dont know what is. He wanted to kick on those innocent kids faces and lord krishna had it that he got his head smashed in!
ISKCON Guru hoax contradictions (from IRM site) ys pd
http://www.myspace.com/iskconrevival/blog/530816485
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
Bir Krishna and his electric Ferrari (ISKCON guru) ys pd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s21-j65OiII
CLICK HERE!
Wow talk about frivilous activity for the sum total of the demigds! ys pd
CLICK HERE!
Wow talk about frivilous activity for the sum total of the demigds! ys pd
Don't change my books! (ys pd)
Srila Prabhupada: So you… What you are going… It is very serious situation. You write one letter that “Why you have made so many changes?” And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to Satsvarupa that “This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim.” The next printing should be again to ...the original way. (Srila Prabhupada conversation, June 22, 1977, Vrindaban)
Srila Prabhupada: … So you bring this to Satsvarupada. They cannot change anything. (Srila Prabhupada conversation, June 22, 1977, Vrindaban
Srila Prabhupada: … So you bring this to Satsvarupada. They cannot change anything. (Srila Prabhupada conversation, June 22, 1977, Vrindaban
Tuesday, March 22, 2011
Russian devotees expose GBC guru hoax in Russian (ISKCON) ys pd
Russian devotees reveal ISKCON leader's falldowns
Русские преданные выявить falldowns ИСККОН лидера
PART 1 CLICK HERE FOR pt 1.
PART 2 CLICK HERE FOR pt. 2
PART 3 CLICK HERE FOR pt.3
PART 4 CLICK HERE for pt 4
Russian devotees exposing the falldowns of ISKCON's bogus gurus
If you want to contact us, please email or call us:
kkd63@mail.ru
007-913-720-73-75 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 007-913-720-73-75 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Русский преданных этому делу людей разоблачение falldowns из-за фальшивые но если вы хотите связаться с нами, пожалуйста e-mail или позвоните нам
CLICK FOR IRM RUSSIA
Русские преданные выявить falldowns ИСККОН лидера
PART 1 CLICK HERE FOR pt 1.
PART 2 CLICK HERE FOR pt. 2
PART 3 CLICK HERE FOR pt.3
PART 4 CLICK HERE for pt 4
Russian devotees exposing the falldowns of ISKCON's bogus gurus
If you want to contact us, please email or call us:
kkd63@mail.ru
007-913-720-73-75 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 007-913-720-73-75 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Русский преданных этому делу людей разоблачение falldowns из-за фальшивые но если вы хотите связаться с нами, пожалуйста e-mail или позвоните нам
CLICK FOR IRM RUSSIA
Monday, March 21, 2011
Lord Chaitanya Festival in Seattle WA (ISKCON)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1--sJcsU8mI
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
Umapati tries to re-write history (ISKCON)
http://jaganat.wordpress.com/2008/02/02/get-the-hell-out-of-my-life/
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
Sunday, March 20, 2011
RE: Jesus and Srila Prabhupada (ISKCON)
PADA: Yes, Srila Prabhupada says that "Jesus is my brother" "Jesus is our guru" "Jesus is still accepting the sins even today" "Jesus is shaktyavesha" and so many similar things. Actually the Christians are the largest religion because everyone unites to promote their acharya. We should learn from them and humbly be trying to do that too. ys pd 100 BRAND NEW disciples of Srila Prabhupada being initiated on Gaura Purnima, today! http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2011/03/iskcon-bangalore-initiating-100-new.html
Saturday, March 19, 2011
Dasaratha dasa opposes GBC gurus "corruption" (ISKCON)
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-11/editorials7108.htm
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
IRM and Krishna Kanta declare that Prabhupada was "confused" (ISKCON)
Krishna Kanta and the IRM has been against the poison issue all along. They think Srila Prabhupada was "confused" when he said "vahi bat, ye hamko poison diye" ... he was being poisoned. When I told Krishna Kanta that people were ALSO whispering "the poison is going down," he said "so what, that is what people talk about normally, there is nothing to be alarmed about"! Apparently, whenever Krishna kanta is eating, he says, "hey this is poison," its "normal"! ys pd
Supporter of molester messiahs program speaks out (ISKCON)
Dear Churangthaba Singh, Jayapataka's guru program has been described by Jayadvaita swami that -- in ISKCON their gurus have been caught engaged in "illicit sex with men, women and children." (quoted from a paper written by Jayadvaita swami) Why do you support a "guru lineage" that has illicit sex left, right and center? Don't you even know that acharyas do not engage in illicit sex? This Churangthaba Sing fellow has never even read the Vedas, he does not even know that Krishna's acharyas are NEVER engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children. Why does this Churangthaba Singh support people who have put homosexual pedophiles into the seat of acharyas? Here in America no one ever worships homosexual pedophiles as their acharyas, you are degrading to the India culture. ys pd http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmP-05eA0mQ
ISKCON Bangalore initiating 100 NEW Prabhupada devotees!
Dear Devotees, ISKCON Bangalore is pleased to announce that it will be conducting Harinam Diksha ceremony on the auspicious occasion of Sri Gaura Poornima. The ceremony will be conducted according to Prabhupada’s July 9th, 1977 directive. This will be the first ever Harinam diksha ceremony, in which disciples formally accept Srila Prabhupada as their diksa Guru in ISKCON post Nov 1977. Over hundred devotees are expected take part in the ceremony and formally accept Harinam diksha. Watch the Harinam Diksha ceremony live on www.harekrishnablog.com and www.iskcontimes.com at 10 am IST on Saturday, March 19th Gaura Purnima 2011.
For more details of the entire process of the ceremony, visit our websites. Your servants, Web Team,
ISKCON Bangalore. MAR-19-LIVE-INITIATION-CEREMONY
For more details of the entire process of the ceremony, visit our websites. Your servants, Web Team,
ISKCON Bangalore. MAR-19-LIVE-INITIATION-CEREMONY
ISKCON guru admits ISKCON's guru hoax (Maha vishnu swami)
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/?p=18515
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
World's biggest collection of Lord Chaitanya's pictures? (ISKCON)
https://picasaweb.google.com/dinaanu/LordCaitanya02#
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
Friday, March 18, 2011
Yuga Avatar dasa defeated again (ISKCON)
PADA: Dear Yuga, the GBC (eg their spokesman Jayadviata swami) says their gurus are found to be "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children" because they really are saying vaishnava gurus are worse than ordinary people. Even the karmis offer their food to Jesus, they would never offer their food to sexual deviants, drug addicts, perverts and criminals like the GBC does. So this is all foolishness. ys pd
Abhaya Charanaravinda: Dear Yuga / Earl you obviously think Prabhupada is an ordinary person otheriwse why did u jump right over his head and try to become another GBC self procalimed nonesensical guru, whom are in actual fact *jackals.* You can only become a guru when get the order. “A guru can become guru when he’s ordered by his guru. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.” -Srila Prabhupada, Oct 28th, 1975
Prabhupada said not to accept disciples Srila Prabhupada writes, “It is best not to accept any disciples:’ (Cc. Madhya 7.130, purport). "If everyone just initiates, then there will only be a contradictory result. As long as it goes on, there will be only failure." (From Phalguna Krishna Pancami, Srila Prabhupada's 1961 poem honoring the appearance day of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura).
Instead, Srila Prabhupada viewed this imitative tendency as a pillar of disaster: "One who tries to imitate the Mahajanas just to become an imitative spiritual master is certainly far away from following in the footsteps of the Mahajanas." (Cc. ML 17.185) "So don't try to imitate. My Guru maharaja has strictly forbidden."
Abhaya Charanaravinda: Dear Yuga / Earl you obviously think Prabhupada is an ordinary person otheriwse why did u jump right over his head and try to become another GBC self procalimed nonesensical guru, whom are in actual fact *jackals.* You can only become a guru when get the order. “A guru can become guru when he’s ordered by his guru. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.” -Srila Prabhupada, Oct 28th, 1975
Prabhupada said not to accept disciples Srila Prabhupada writes, “It is best not to accept any disciples:’ (Cc. Madhya 7.130, purport). "If everyone just initiates, then there will only be a contradictory result. As long as it goes on, there will be only failure." (From Phalguna Krishna Pancami, Srila Prabhupada's 1961 poem honoring the appearance day of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura).
Instead, Srila Prabhupada viewed this imitative tendency as a pillar of disaster: "One who tries to imitate the Mahajanas just to become an imitative spiritual master is certainly far away from following in the footsteps of the Mahajanas." (Cc. ML 17.185) "So don't try to imitate. My Guru maharaja has strictly forbidden."
Los Angeles Lord Chaitanya festival reminder (ISKCON)
Saturday, March 19, 2011 5:00 PM 3722 Delmas Terrace, No 5, Los Angeles, CA 90034
Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu Avirbhava tithi- Gaura Purnima - sacred appearance day celebration of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu Avirbhava tithi- Gaura Purnima - sacred appearance day celebration of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Bangalore Gaura Purnima 2011 (ISKCON)
http://harekrishnablog.com/index.php/festival-a-reports.html
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
"Take me home" Trance song by Chandra Shekhara dasa
PADA: I like it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQ0yGO901w
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
Srila Prabhupada warning about Sridhara Maharaja
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToNsEfz3msI
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
Spawning the GBC princes (ISKCON)
ROCANA prabhu does some good work here, but he never explains how the "zonal gurus" became gurus in the first place. He admits this herein, he has never properly researched how this deviation originated. Rocana keeps calling them "zonal gurus," but he never explains how they got the "guru" title. OK, they subverted the ritvik order and self appointed themselves as gurus, Rocana still does not know what happened at the root. ys pd
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-11/editorials7103.htm or:
CLICK HERE
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-11/editorials7103.htm or:
CLICK HERE
Better to get Krishna than His material opulence (ISKCON)
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/?p=18572
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
Ramai swami covers for molesters (bogus ISKCON)
Cameron wrote: "Here Ramai Swami claims to know of one act of child sexual abuse, here he lies because he knew of many, and should therefore immediately resign from the GBC due to his mis-management!!! LOL Ramai Swami is from Egyptian background and that could be where his selfish dictatorial totalitarian ‘controlling’ natural comes from as most Arab countries are dictatorships http://www.facebook.com/l/16805/www.harekrsna.org/gbc/black/ramai-swami.htm"
PADA: Right on!
PADA: Right on!
ISKCON History repeats (BV and BP Puri, NM and SM)
Right prabhu, so all of them: BV Puri, BP Puri, Sridhara maharaja, Narayana Maharaja et al., they all wanted to throttle back the ritvik order so they could forward and promote their molester messiah GBC's guru friends -- and so they ALL propped up the bogus GBC gurus program (just as they promoted their own homosexual guru project in 1936), and they self appointed themselves as the rasika and shiksha gurus for the GBC's molester messiahs project. And thus ALL them promoted themselves as the collective "living gurus" who would compete and halt the worship of Srila Prabhupada, however, they all knew this was wrong because none of this was ordered by Srila Prabhupada. So, they were all knowingly committing these sins of subverting the ritvik order on the strength of the chanting, very serious aparadha. Of course the "PADA" type people who were protesting their 1936 bogus guru project in India were beaten and killed, and this was in the newspapers of India, so they wanted all of us protesters to be beaten and killed, and create terrible news publicity again, so they wanted to have this history repeated. ys pd
All the bogus GBC gurus assembled together (ISKCON)
NOTICE, how FEW of them are left. Several hundred sannyasas /gurus / GBC have been voted in since, most of them has "blooped." CLICK on photo to enlarge. ys pd]
Thursday, March 17, 2011
BV Puri maharaja endorses ritvik idea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sue4rhBssvg
CLICK HERE to view video
CLICK HERE to view video
New Web site exposes GBC gurus
http://wn.com/BR_Sridhara_assists_bogus_ISKCON_gurus_ISKCON_
CLICK HERE!
CLICK HERE!
Wednesday, March 16, 2011
Bangalore ISKCON centers
INDIA HEAD QUARTERS: ISKCON Sri Sri Radha Krishna Chandra Mandir Hare Krishna Hill, Chord Road, Rajaji Nagar
Bangalore-560010 (Karnataka)
Phone: 080-23471956/080-23578346
e-mail:bangalore.info@harekrishna-movement.org
OTHER CENTERS:
ISKCON Sri Krishna Balaram Mandir / Shankar Gudda colony, Sandur Bellary Road, Toranagallu-583123
(Bellary Dt., Karnataka) Phone:08395-250651/52/53/54
TeleFax : 08395-250655
e-mail:bellary.info@harekrishna-movement.org
Hare Krishna Movement, Chennai / No.63, 1st Seaward Road,
Valmikinagar, Thiruvanmiyur, Chennai-600041(Tamil Nadu)
Phone: 044-2455100/09789057105
Website : www.hkm-chennai.org
e-mail: info@hkm-chennai.org
Hare Krishna Movement, Delhi / H4/5,House No.3, Suvidha Marg, pitampura, Near Bhagavan Hospital, / New Delhi-110034
Phone: 09650499732
Hare Krishna Movement, Gandhinagar
Akshaya Patra, plot no:B-152/153, GIDC, Sector-25,
Gandhinagar-382044 (Gujarat)
Phone:079-64511105, Telefax:079-23287304
e-mail:ahmedabad.info@harekrishna-movement.org
Hare Krishna Movement, Hyderabd / No 12-71/1,Sri Krishna Nilayam, Shanti Nagar, Patancheruvu, Hyderabad-502319 (Andhra Pradesh) Phone: 09379156083
ISKCON Sri Krishna Balaram Mandir Pune-Bangalore Road
Rayapur Dharwad-580009 (Karnataka)
Phone:0836-2224108.2324108
email:hubli.info@harekrishna-movement.org
Hare Krishna Movement, Jaipur / Akshaya Patra Campus, C-6 to C-11, Mahal Scheme opp.Gyan Vihar Universtity / Goner Road, Jagatpura / Jaipur (Rajasthan) Phone: 09928099901
email:jaipur.info@harekrishna-movement.org
ISKCON Nava Brindavan Dham / No.31, 18th cross / Jayanagar
Mysore-570014 (Karnataka) / Phone:0821-2500582
e-mail:mysore.info@harekrishna-movement.org
Sri Vrindavan-Chandra Mandir / Chhatikara Road/ Vrindavan – 281121 / U.P., India / Ph: 91-565-2913 095 / 6000 727
http://harekrishna-movement.org/
Hare Krishna Movement, Mumbai / Kukreja Residency, 1st Floor ”A” Wing / 101, opp Dukes Company / Waman Tukaram Patil Marg, Deonar, Borla (Near RK Studios), Chembur, Mumbai (Maharashtra) Phone: 09928099901
ISKCON Sri Krishna Balaram Mandir / Arya Samaj Road, Balmatta
Mangalore-575003 (Karnataka) Phone:0824-2410722
e-mail:mangalore.info@harekrishna-movement.org
HOLY PLACES OF PILGRIMAGE
Hare Krishna Movement, Puri / Akshaya Patra / Grand Road, Balagandi / Puri-752001(Orissa)
Phone:09937057524
email:puri.info@harekrishna-movement.org
Hare Krishna Movement, Tirupati / Sri Radha Gopinath Mandir
Bhaktivedanta Swami Satsang / 18-3-58/6, Khadi colony
Shanti Nagar / Tirupati-517507
Phone:09379156083
e-mail:tirupati.info@harekrishna-movement.org
FARM: Hare Krishna Farm / Mahadevapura / Srirangapatana Taluk (Mandya DT., Karnataka) Phone: 080-6250391/92/93
WORLD HEAD QUARTERS-USA / International Society for Krishna Conciousness INC., New York 197 S Ocean Ave., Freeport, Long Island, NewYork-11520 (USA) Phone: (516)223-4909 e-mail: contact@iskconny.com
Bangalore-560010 (Karnataka)
Phone: 080-23471956/080-23578346
e-mail:bangalore.info@harekrishna-movement.org
OTHER CENTERS:
ISKCON Sri Krishna Balaram Mandir / Shankar Gudda colony, Sandur Bellary Road, Toranagallu-583123
(Bellary Dt., Karnataka) Phone:08395-250651/52/53/54
TeleFax : 08395-250655
e-mail:bellary.info@harekrishna-movement.org
Hare Krishna Movement, Chennai / No.63, 1st Seaward Road,
Valmikinagar, Thiruvanmiyur, Chennai-600041(Tamil Nadu)
Phone: 044-2455100/09789057105
Website : www.hkm-chennai.org
e-mail: info@hkm-chennai.org
Hare Krishna Movement, Delhi / H4/5,House No.3, Suvidha Marg, pitampura, Near Bhagavan Hospital, / New Delhi-110034
Phone: 09650499732
Hare Krishna Movement, Gandhinagar
Akshaya Patra, plot no:B-152/153, GIDC, Sector-25,
Gandhinagar-382044 (Gujarat)
Phone:079-64511105, Telefax:079-23287304
e-mail:ahmedabad.info@harekrishna-movement.org
Hare Krishna Movement, Hyderabd / No 12-71/1,Sri Krishna Nilayam, Shanti Nagar, Patancheruvu, Hyderabad-502319 (Andhra Pradesh) Phone: 09379156083
ISKCON Sri Krishna Balaram Mandir Pune-Bangalore Road
Rayapur Dharwad-580009 (Karnataka)
Phone:0836-2224108.2324108
email:hubli.info@harekrishna-movement.org
Hare Krishna Movement, Jaipur / Akshaya Patra Campus, C-6 to C-11, Mahal Scheme opp.Gyan Vihar Universtity / Goner Road, Jagatpura / Jaipur (Rajasthan) Phone: 09928099901
email:jaipur.info@harekrishna-movement.org
ISKCON Nava Brindavan Dham / No.31, 18th cross / Jayanagar
Mysore-570014 (Karnataka) / Phone:0821-2500582
e-mail:mysore.info@harekrishna-movement.org
Sri Vrindavan-Chandra Mandir / Chhatikara Road/ Vrindavan – 281121 / U.P., India / Ph: 91-565-2913 095 / 6000 727
http://harekrishna-movement.org/
Hare Krishna Movement, Mumbai / Kukreja Residency, 1st Floor ”A” Wing / 101, opp Dukes Company / Waman Tukaram Patil Marg, Deonar, Borla (Near RK Studios), Chembur, Mumbai (Maharashtra) Phone: 09928099901
ISKCON Sri Krishna Balaram Mandir / Arya Samaj Road, Balmatta
Mangalore-575003 (Karnataka) Phone:0824-2410722
e-mail:mangalore.info@harekrishna-movement.org
HOLY PLACES OF PILGRIMAGE
Hare Krishna Movement, Puri / Akshaya Patra / Grand Road, Balagandi / Puri-752001(Orissa)
Phone:09937057524
email:puri.info@harekrishna-movement.org
Hare Krishna Movement, Tirupati / Sri Radha Gopinath Mandir
Bhaktivedanta Swami Satsang / 18-3-58/6, Khadi colony
Shanti Nagar / Tirupati-517507
Phone:09379156083
e-mail:tirupati.info@harekrishna-movement.org
FARM: Hare Krishna Farm / Mahadevapura / Srirangapatana Taluk (Mandya DT., Karnataka) Phone: 080-6250391/92/93
WORLD HEAD QUARTERS-USA / International Society for Krishna Conciousness INC., New York 197 S Ocean Ave., Freeport, Long Island, NewYork-11520 (USA) Phone: (516)223-4909 e-mail: contact@iskconny.com
(ISKCON) Guru Kripa speaks up? About what?
PADA That is good, after 30 years, Guru Kripa admits that Srila Prabhupada did not appoint any gurus. Nice. Why did he not defend the acharya earlier? The main question for Guru Kripa now is, he said we have to have a living guru like BV Puri maharaja. BV Puri maahraja said (a) Srila Prabhupada only appointed ritviks, and (b) ritviks is a bogus idea since we need a living guru, so BV Puri supported the GBC gurus and their heros like Gopal Krishna swami. Why is Guru Kripa saying the GBC are bogus and we need to support them at the same time? Also, BV Puri died, where is the living guru now? ys pd
ISKCON "Lets all get along" -- ok but !!!
Madhavadasa Das: I have no difficulty with there being three branches of Iskcon: Diksha, Ritvik, and BV Narayana Mahraja. And pointing out faults can be helpful, so long as it is constructive and free of rumor, distortion, and fanaticism. If we come together humbly for Mangal Arotika and Guru Puja, all conflicts will be resolved in due course of time.
PADA: The problem is: that the GBC has a policy of -- removing, banning and even threatening our devotees. I was excommunicated myself in 1978. I have received many threats. They are also spending millions and millions and millions of rupees suing us in India. So, as soon as we try to chant Hare Krishna and preach about the glories of the acharya, we are attacked, verbally, sometimes physically, and of course, with massive lawsuits. Over the past 12 years the GBC has spent a vast fortune suing us, instead of printing books, feeding the poor, opening new temples and so on. They are spending money on attacking us because they do not want to have our Prabhupadanuga program. They also have a strict policy that no prasadam is allowed EVER, as soon as we say -- we cannot offer bhogha to conditioned souls, they kick us out. They strictly do not allow prasadam (bhogha offfered to the pure devotee) and this is why they removed me in 1978, I did not want to eat bhogha offered to conditioned souls, I wanted to eat prasadam and not bhogha. They still will not allow prasadam, that is their strict program. The good news is that we are making new Prabhupadanugas every day, so we are going ahead. ys pd
Ananda Goldstein-Damerla Omg. Never heard it put that way before.
Diane Lopez It is darkest before Dawn, All Glories and most humble obeisances onto His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
PADA: The problem is: that the GBC has a policy of -- removing, banning and even threatening our devotees. I was excommunicated myself in 1978. I have received many threats. They are also spending millions and millions and millions of rupees suing us in India. So, as soon as we try to chant Hare Krishna and preach about the glories of the acharya, we are attacked, verbally, sometimes physically, and of course, with massive lawsuits. Over the past 12 years the GBC has spent a vast fortune suing us, instead of printing books, feeding the poor, opening new temples and so on. They are spending money on attacking us because they do not want to have our Prabhupadanuga program. They also have a strict policy that no prasadam is allowed EVER, as soon as we say -- we cannot offer bhogha to conditioned souls, they kick us out. They strictly do not allow prasadam (bhogha offfered to the pure devotee) and this is why they removed me in 1978, I did not want to eat bhogha offered to conditioned souls, I wanted to eat prasadam and not bhogha. They still will not allow prasadam, that is their strict program. The good news is that we are making new Prabhupadanugas every day, so we are going ahead. ys pd
Ananda Goldstein-Damerla Omg. Never heard it put that way before.
Diane Lopez It is darkest before Dawn, All Glories and most humble obeisances onto His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
(ISKCON) Disobey Guru is an offense
Bhagavad-gita 2.11 (with Spanish translator) — Mexico, February 11, 1975
Hrdayananda: (translating) He wants to know if the greatest offense is to disobey the guru.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the first offense. If you accept guru and again disobey him, then what is your position? You are not a gentleman. You promise before guru, before Krsna, before fire, that “I shall obey your order; I shall execute this,” and again you do not do this. Then you are not even a gentleman, what to speak about devotee. This is common sense.
Hrdayananda: (translating) He wants to know if the greatest offense is to disobey the guru.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the first offense. If you accept guru and again disobey him, then what is your position? You are not a gentleman. You promise before guru, before Krsna, before fire, that “I shall obey your order; I shall execute this,” and again you do not do this. Then you are not even a gentleman, what to speak about devotee. This is common sense.
Tuesday, March 15, 2011
History lessons of ISKCON
Right, well in 1977 Srila Prabhupada said that sannyasa was not working and he suspended sannyasa. So he was trying to pull the carpet out from them. This is where the poison in his hair sample started to build up (there was chronic poisoning according to his hair sample).
I think that Srila Prabhupada was depending on us, most of his disciples, 97 percent of us who were householders, to contain the gays. Instead, most of my brothers surrendered to the gays, and they harassed me for attacking the gays and they still do. In short, most of my brothers wanted the gays to win, and that is what occured.
At the same time I do believe that the gay partee poisoned Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada said that we need to be "vigilant" in ISKCON, and yet, the bulk of his disciples were only vigilant to -- defend the gays and contain us protestors. So this was all a test from Krishna, most of them failed, obviously.
So you are right, the people who were entrusted to defend ISKCON, the 97 percent of us who were householders, we failed to defend it, and the gays took over. This is turning around gradually, we have many new people who are working with us and they are helping us fight the gay conspiracy, so it will turn around in time. The only good news is that at least some of us did fight and we will get the credit, just like Arjuna got the credit. So in sum, the gays won because the householders supported their conspiracy to take over. They failed to defend their guru and his mission, they failed the test given them from Krishna. This also occured in the Gaudiya matha, the gay guru Ananta Vasudeva took over, and the householders fled, they failed there too.
So all the more reason for us to be vigilant and defend the right idea. ys pd
I think that Srila Prabhupada was depending on us, most of his disciples, 97 percent of us who were householders, to contain the gays. Instead, most of my brothers surrendered to the gays, and they harassed me for attacking the gays and they still do. In short, most of my brothers wanted the gays to win, and that is what occured.
At the same time I do believe that the gay partee poisoned Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada said that we need to be "vigilant" in ISKCON, and yet, the bulk of his disciples were only vigilant to -- defend the gays and contain us protestors. So this was all a test from Krishna, most of them failed, obviously.
So you are right, the people who were entrusted to defend ISKCON, the 97 percent of us who were householders, we failed to defend it, and the gays took over. This is turning around gradually, we have many new people who are working with us and they are helping us fight the gay conspiracy, so it will turn around in time. The only good news is that at least some of us did fight and we will get the credit, just like Arjuna got the credit. So in sum, the gays won because the householders supported their conspiracy to take over. They failed to defend their guru and his mission, they failed the test given them from Krishna. This also occured in the Gaudiya matha, the gay guru Ananta Vasudeva took over, and the householders fled, they failed there too.
So all the more reason for us to be vigilant and defend the right idea. ys pd
Sunday, March 13, 2011
This fellow thinks good and bad are "us" and "them" (?)
[PADA: This fellow complains that we are creating and "us" and "them" duality. Really? These devotees are not capable of distinguishing right from wrong, a sentiment which is exploited by the wrong doers! ys pd]
Richard Besnainou Is it that there are two realities, i e: Krsna Lila reality and deviation reality, or is what "we" call «'deviation' reality'» included, comprised in the only one supremely real and infinite Radha Krsna Prema Lila Reality? The only alternative choice to us proposed: relative, "material" vision, or absolute atma vision; the third one: Radha Krsna Lila vision, with All That Be And All Which Are. Spirit Souls Atma Nitya Krsna Das. Maya: illusion: isn't-ness. Supreme Truth: Radha Krsna playfully enacting eternally His Her Their Lila with Their sat cit ananda atma selves spirit souls by hiding disguising revealing Herself Himself Themselves as what is called maya, illusion, non-divine inferior unreality, And As the Supremely Beautiful Divine KrsnaLoka GoLoka Vrndavana eternal aim and simultaneously Highest Reality, to love, to be conscious of. whilst in this His manifested emanated apara nature who serves Him as His Dress (isha vasya sarvam idam) matter energy field kshetra.
ys gcd.
PADA Krishna says that false gurus, the veda vada ratas, are heading for "the most obnoxious regions." Sorry, that means they are not eligible for Krishna's lila. Yes "He" says that, they are not going to His Lila, they are going down and "we" agree with "Him." ys pd
Richard Besnainou Is it that there are two realities, i e: Krsna Lila reality and deviation reality, or is what "we" call «'deviation' reality'» included, comprised in the only one supremely real and infinite Radha Krsna Prema Lila Reality? The only alternative choice to us proposed: relative, "material" vision, or absolute atma vision; the third one: Radha Krsna Lila vision, with All That Be And All Which Are. Spirit Souls Atma Nitya Krsna Das. Maya: illusion: isn't-ness. Supreme Truth: Radha Krsna playfully enacting eternally His Her Their Lila with Their sat cit ananda atma selves spirit souls by hiding disguising revealing Herself Himself Themselves as what is called maya, illusion, non-divine inferior unreality, And As the Supremely Beautiful Divine KrsnaLoka GoLoka Vrndavana eternal aim and simultaneously Highest Reality, to love, to be conscious of. whilst in this His manifested emanated apara nature who serves Him as His Dress (isha vasya sarvam idam) matter energy field kshetra.
ys gcd.
PADA Krishna says that false gurus, the veda vada ratas, are heading for "the most obnoxious regions." Sorry, that means they are not eligible for Krishna's lila. Yes "He" says that, they are not going to His Lila, they are going down and "we" agree with "Him." ys pd
Saturday, March 12, 2011
Srila Prabhupada lecture on youtube (animals v humans)
This is part of a series of many lectures, when you click on this one look to his "other videos" and you'll see more of this series. Well done! ys pd
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
Immature devotees are not gurus (ISKCON)
Yuga Avatar Das Yes some immature devotees within our ''immediate past'' iskcon history have failed. This is well documented. However your inclination to fester and only see and advertise those whom have failed, certainly displays your envious nature. Realistically, it was never going to be easy to follow the ''Archarya'' standard. However some have succeeded,Tamala-krishna goswami, Bhakti swarupa damodara goswami, Bhakti tirtha swami, Gaura govinda maharaja spring to my mind. However such demons as yourself thankfully are few and far between parading as devotees...
PADA Congrats! Now Yuga has become a ritivk! He says the people who keep falling are "immature devotees" (rtiviks) and not acharyas! Welcome aboard Yuga! Yuga has agreed with the main idea of the ritviks, the people who fail are "immature devotees" (ritviks) and not gurus! Wow, this is great, we can tell everyone that Yuga has surrendered to the ritviks! Welcome aboard Yuga! You agree with us! ys pd
Yuga Avatar Das We are not sahajiya -apa sampradaya proponents ....
PADA Yuga you just said that your acharyas are "immature devotees," that means, you are agreeing with us! Welcome! ys pd
PADA Congrats! Now Yuga has become a ritivk! He says the people who keep falling are "immature devotees" (rtiviks) and not acharyas! Welcome aboard Yuga! Yuga has agreed with the main idea of the ritviks, the people who fail are "immature devotees" (ritviks) and not gurus! Wow, this is great, we can tell everyone that Yuga has surrendered to the ritviks! Welcome aboard Yuga! You agree with us! ys pd
Yuga Avatar Das We are not sahajiya -apa sampradaya proponents ....
PADA Yuga you just said that your acharyas are "immature devotees," that means, you are agreeing with us! Welcome! ys pd
ISKCON guru "my constant headaches and pills"
ISKCON guru says when you become a pure devotee, you will be in constant pain and require constant pain medications. What fun! ys pd
CLICK HERE
CLICK HERE
ISKCON: The slayer swami (Radhanatha involved in murder)
http://www.myspace.com/550471490/blog/542361462
Friday, March 11, 2011
(ISKCON) Feed back on Sudarsana dasa saying ritviks are right ...
Yuga Avatar Das The problem with your ritvik mentality is that your small team profusely causes offenses to other devotees. Only accepting one ''pure devotee'',when this attitude is not supported by Srila Prabhupada!
PADA Thanks Yuga, Sankarsana dasa is one of your gurus, and he says, the ritviks are correct, acharyas do not fall down. I hope you are not saying you are not accepting your own guru? Your guru Sankarasana dasa says we are right, and now you are apparently rejecting even your own gurus? ys pd
Akruranatha Dasa Sankarsan does not say "the ritviks are right". Sankarsan does not support ritvik initiations. Come on, Puranjana! Have some integrity. Why can't you actually be intellectually honest? Why must you be a political spin doctor?
PADA Dear Akruranatha, Sankarsan is now saying he is ageeing with the main idea of the ritviks, that the pure devotees do not fall down. He is repeating and agreeing with our main idea, why not give him some credit? Are you saying he is wrong to be saying pure devotees do not fall down (our whole idea since 1977)? As soon as we glorify a devotee, you attack us, what is wrong with you? Can't you tolerate a devotee being given credit?
Yes, he agrees with us, that is what we have said for the past 30 years. Why is that not honest? I showed people the link where he is saying what we said all along, that pure devotees do not fall down, on HIS OWN SITE! I did not make anything up-- follow the link, that is what he says! Moreover, why are you saying Sankarsana's statement is "politics"? Shastra is not political?
He is NOW saying what we have said all along, so yes, he is agreeing with us. That also means he agrees with the second idea we have, that these post 1977 gurus are agents and not acharyas themselves, because they are falling down left, right and center. By the way, just after your friend Badrinarayan dasa recently said your gurus are always "crashing and burning," now Lokanatha swami is saying that the GBC gurus are many times having not only falldowns but indeed often have "black spots," so he too is also agreeing with us: that their gurus are not pure devotees, they have "black spots" (major impurity) which is what we said for the past 30 years. Why not give credit where credit is due? These folks are waking up, why not cheer them on? Amazing, as soon as we say someone is making progress, Akruranatha is begrudging them! ys pd
PADA Thanks Yuga, Sankarsana dasa is one of your gurus, and he says, the ritviks are correct, acharyas do not fall down. I hope you are not saying you are not accepting your own guru? Your guru Sankarasana dasa says we are right, and now you are apparently rejecting even your own gurus? ys pd
Akruranatha Dasa Sankarsan does not say "the ritviks are right". Sankarsan does not support ritvik initiations. Come on, Puranjana! Have some integrity. Why can't you actually be intellectually honest? Why must you be a political spin doctor?
PADA Dear Akruranatha, Sankarsan is now saying he is ageeing with the main idea of the ritviks, that the pure devotees do not fall down. He is repeating and agreeing with our main idea, why not give him some credit? Are you saying he is wrong to be saying pure devotees do not fall down (our whole idea since 1977)? As soon as we glorify a devotee, you attack us, what is wrong with you? Can't you tolerate a devotee being given credit?
Yes, he agrees with us, that is what we have said for the past 30 years. Why is that not honest? I showed people the link where he is saying what we said all along, that pure devotees do not fall down, on HIS OWN SITE! I did not make anything up-- follow the link, that is what he says! Moreover, why are you saying Sankarsana's statement is "politics"? Shastra is not political?
He is NOW saying what we have said all along, so yes, he is agreeing with us. That also means he agrees with the second idea we have, that these post 1977 gurus are agents and not acharyas themselves, because they are falling down left, right and center. By the way, just after your friend Badrinarayan dasa recently said your gurus are always "crashing and burning," now Lokanatha swami is saying that the GBC gurus are many times having not only falldowns but indeed often have "black spots," so he too is also agreeing with us: that their gurus are not pure devotees, they have "black spots" (major impurity) which is what we said for the past 30 years. Why not give credit where credit is due? These folks are waking up, why not cheer them on? Amazing, as soon as we say someone is making progress, Akruranatha is begrudging them! ys pd
(ISKCON) Question for Lokanatha swami
If anyone is in mayapura they should ask Lokanatha swami a question for me
Why is he now saying that Lord Krishna's acharyas are fallen "black spots"
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/news/03-11/news3707.htm
I have never seen anyone say that Lord Krishna's acharyas are fallen black spots?
Srila Prabhupada says acharyas are pure, he never said they are evil black spots? thanks pd
Why is he now saying that Lord Krishna's acharyas are fallen "black spots"
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/news/03-11/news3707.htm
I have never seen anyone say that Lord Krishna's acharyas are fallen black spots?
Srila Prabhupada says acharyas are pure, he never said they are evil black spots? thanks pd
Thursday, March 10, 2011
Wednesday, March 9, 2011
"Prabhupada" title defined
Canto 4: Creation of the Fourth Order Chapter 8: Dhruva Mahārāja Leaves Home for the Forest
My dear King, your son is very competent. He will perform activities which would he impossible even for great kings and sages. Very soon he will complete his task and come back home. You should know that he will also spread your reputation all over the world.
PURPORT
Here in this verse Nārada Muni has described Dhruva Mahārāja as prabhu. This word is applicable to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sometimes the spiritual master is addressed as Prabhupāda. Prabhu means "the Supreme Personality of Godhead," and pāda means "post." According to Vaiṣṇava philosophy, the spiritual master occupies the post of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or in other words he is the bona fide representative of the Supreme Lord. Dhruva Mahārāja is also described here as prabhu because he is an ācārya of the Vaiṣṇava school. Another meaning of prabhu is "master of the senses," just like the word svāmī. Another significant word is suduṣkaram, "very difficult to perform." What was the task that Dhruva Mahārāja undertook? The most difficult task in life is to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Dhruva Mahārāja would be able to do that. We must remember that Dhruva Mahārāja was not fickle; he was determined to execute his service and then come back. Every devotee, therefore, should be determined that in this life he will be able to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead and by that process go back home, back to Godhead. That is the perfection of the highest mission of life.
My dear King, your son is very competent. He will perform activities which would he impossible even for great kings and sages. Very soon he will complete his task and come back home. You should know that he will also spread your reputation all over the world.
PURPORT
Here in this verse Nārada Muni has described Dhruva Mahārāja as prabhu. This word is applicable to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sometimes the spiritual master is addressed as Prabhupāda. Prabhu means "the Supreme Personality of Godhead," and pāda means "post." According to Vaiṣṇava philosophy, the spiritual master occupies the post of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or in other words he is the bona fide representative of the Supreme Lord. Dhruva Mahārāja is also described here as prabhu because he is an ācārya of the Vaiṣṇava school. Another meaning of prabhu is "master of the senses," just like the word svāmī. Another significant word is suduṣkaram, "very difficult to perform." What was the task that Dhruva Mahārāja undertook? The most difficult task in life is to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Dhruva Mahārāja would be able to do that. We must remember that Dhruva Mahārāja was not fickle; he was determined to execute his service and then come back. Every devotee, therefore, should be determined that in this life he will be able to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead and by that process go back home, back to Godhead. That is the perfection of the highest mission of life.
East Village Harinama
Harinam Sankirtan In The East Village! Saturday, May 14 at 5:00pm
Location East Village. NYC.
We will start in Astor Place and traverse the East Village to Tompkins Square Park - singing, dancing, and chanting the Lord's Holy Names. There is nothing more transcendental in this age than that! Also planned are book distribution, a short skit and bhajans at Tompkins Square Park. Please come and join us for this living celebration!
Location East Village. NYC.
We will start in Astor Place and traverse the East Village to Tompkins Square Park - singing, dancing, and chanting the Lord's Holy Names. There is nothing more transcendental in this age than that! Also planned are book distribution, a short skit and bhajans at Tompkins Square Park. Please come and join us for this living celebration!
Dear Richard
Who can know what is an acharya? Well for starters, the Gaudiya Matha made deviants into acharyas after 1936, which Srila Prabhupada described in detail as a deviation. And the GBC did the same thing after 1977, with support from the self same Gaudiya Matha deviants. Srila Prabhupada says, these people are not acharyas. The acharya is one in purity and message, hence all the acharyas are pure. So it does not matter if you say an acharya, the acharya, the acharyas (plural) or the parampara chain, or Krishna's successors, or whatever, when you refer to the bona fide acharya singular or plural, either he or they, must be as pure as Krishna -- shaksat hari tven samasta shatra, all the shastra says the acharya or (s) are as pure as God. So it does not matter singular or plural, what matters is the quality and qualification of the acharya(s). ys pd
Abhaya Charanaravinda dasi writes:
Abhaya Charanaravinda commented on her status. Abhaya wrote:
"There is only one initiating acarya -- how ever there can be many *ritvik acaryas* instructor gurus. The initiating acarya must be a pure devottee of discplic succession who has been authorised my his own spiritual master.
Its only the initiating acarya that is able to give diksa (spiritual initiation) to the Madhyama-adhikari (see antya CC 4.192-4.194) where he relishes loving mellows (in his svarupa) with krsna. Acarya is not voted by the GBC 2/3 majority votes. The acarya has direct communication with Krsna. Krsna speaks through him. It is therefore only the acarya that can actually be expected to be worshiped as good as Krsna. Adi 1.35 A devotee must have only one initiating spiritual master because in the scriptures acceptance of more than one is always forbidden. The spiritual master must be of disciplic succession of acaryas. And Srila Prabhupada is the current acarya. SB 3.29.17 In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya.
Acaryopasanam: one should worship an acarya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. The spiritual master must be in the disciplic succession from Krsna. The predecessors of the spiritual master are his spiritual master, his grand spiritual master, his great-grand spiritual master and so on, who form the disciplic succession of acaryas. Srila Prabhupada is the prominent acarya. 68-04-12.Day Letter: Dayananda Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system--namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. We have to** pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him.** There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to. The injunction is to worship acarya as opposed to those who conduct spiritual master business. This statement from Srila Prabhupada is uncompromising. Srila Prabhupada wants to deliver the devotees form the lust of wanting to be worshiped as good as God.
But if they become envious of his position as the acarya and wish to be worshiped as good as God then he is telling them their destiny. Isopanisad 12 The pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from material affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles of material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities disguised as religious principles. By a false display of religious sentiments, they present a show of devotional service while indulging in all sorts of immoral activities. In this way they pass as spiritual masters and devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. They ignore the Vedic injunction acaryopasana--"One must worship the acarya"and Krsna's statement in the Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam parampara-praptam, "This supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession." Instead, to mislead the people in general they themselves become so-called acaryas, but they do not even follow the principles of the acaryas. These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg. 16.19-20).
Sri Isopanisad confirms that these pseudo religionists are heading toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after the completion of their spiritual master business, which they conduct simply for sense gratification. Srila Prabhupada(jagad-guru) has already given us the Holy name initiation in his books, tapes and formal ceremonies also. All it requires now is that one chant offenselessly--this is attained in the madhyma-adhikari platform(spiritual Initiation-diksa). Those who are making money from spiritual master business may be agitated--but we know that **only Krsna's pure devotee can give Krsna** and Prabhupada has given the Holy name. So far as formality of the ceremony-- July 9th letter Prabhupada said conduct as ritviks(representative of acarya). NOT CONDITIONED SOULS PRETENDING TO BE ACARYAS.WHICH IS WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW IN ISKCON. Antya 7.12 Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura explains that unless one is directly empowered by the causeless mercy of Krsna, one cannot become the spiritual master of the entire world (jagad-guru). One cannot become an acarya simply by mental speculation. Srila Prabhupadas books also it is STRESSED: His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Founder-Acarya of the International Society For Krishna Consciousness. Founder** HYPEN** Acarya means that Srila Prabhupada is NOT ONLY the Founder BUT ALSO the Acarya of ISKCON.
It is also Srila Prabhupadas desire to REMAIN at the centre so all devotees take the advantage of receiving diksa from his Divine Grace. 67-02-11. Letter: Kirtanananda I wish that each and every Branch shall keep their independent identity and cooperate keeping the Acarya in the centre. On this principle we can open any number of Branches all over the world. The Ramakrishna mission works on this principle and thus as organization they have done wonderfully. Srila Prabhupada is the current authorised acarya of discplic succession. One can only become acarya when is ordered or noone can be bonafide http://www.facebook.com/l/030b4/acarya.It is only the uttama adhikari acarya Prabhupada that is able to transmit diksa (spiritual Initiation) into the madhyam adhikaris heart whereby he is enabled to see Krsna and relish loving mellows in his svarupa. So in conclusion there can only be one initatiating acarya but there can be many *ritvik acarya* instructors.Srila Prabhupada who fulfilled the original prophecy of Lord Chaitanya: “In every town and village on this earth the glories of My name will be chanted.” He also established a system whereby he could initiate long into the future via priestly representatives (ritviks). So there is really nothing left for a future acarya to do; Srila Prabhupada has already done everything. ALL GLORIES TO SRILA PRABHUPADA."
"There is only one initiating acarya -- how ever there can be many *ritvik acaryas* instructor gurus. The initiating acarya must be a pure devottee of discplic succession who has been authorised my his own spiritual master.
Its only the initiating acarya that is able to give diksa (spiritual initiation) to the Madhyama-adhikari (see antya CC 4.192-4.194) where he relishes loving mellows (in his svarupa) with krsna. Acarya is not voted by the GBC 2/3 majority votes. The acarya has direct communication with Krsna. Krsna speaks through him. It is therefore only the acarya that can actually be expected to be worshiped as good as Krsna. Adi 1.35 A devotee must have only one initiating spiritual master because in the scriptures acceptance of more than one is always forbidden. The spiritual master must be of disciplic succession of acaryas. And Srila Prabhupada is the current acarya. SB 3.29.17 In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya.
Acaryopasanam: one should worship an acarya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. The spiritual master must be in the disciplic succession from Krsna. The predecessors of the spiritual master are his spiritual master, his grand spiritual master, his great-grand spiritual master and so on, who form the disciplic succession of acaryas. Srila Prabhupada is the prominent acarya. 68-04-12.Day Letter: Dayananda Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system--namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. We have to** pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him.** There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to. The injunction is to worship acarya as opposed to those who conduct spiritual master business. This statement from Srila Prabhupada is uncompromising. Srila Prabhupada wants to deliver the devotees form the lust of wanting to be worshiped as good as God.
But if they become envious of his position as the acarya and wish to be worshiped as good as God then he is telling them their destiny. Isopanisad 12 The pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from material affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles of material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities disguised as religious principles. By a false display of religious sentiments, they present a show of devotional service while indulging in all sorts of immoral activities. In this way they pass as spiritual masters and devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. They ignore the Vedic injunction acaryopasana--"One must worship the acarya"and Krsna's statement in the Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam parampara-praptam, "This supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession." Instead, to mislead the people in general they themselves become so-called acaryas, but they do not even follow the principles of the acaryas. These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg. 16.19-20).
Sri Isopanisad confirms that these pseudo religionists are heading toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after the completion of their spiritual master business, which they conduct simply for sense gratification. Srila Prabhupada(jagad-guru) has already given us the Holy name initiation in his books, tapes and formal ceremonies also. All it requires now is that one chant offenselessly--this is attained in the madhyma-adhikari platform(spiritual Initiation-diksa). Those who are making money from spiritual master business may be agitated--but we know that **only Krsna's pure devotee can give Krsna** and Prabhupada has given the Holy name. So far as formality of the ceremony-- July 9th letter Prabhupada said conduct as ritviks(representative of acarya). NOT CONDITIONED SOULS PRETENDING TO BE ACARYAS.WHICH IS WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW IN ISKCON. Antya 7.12 Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura explains that unless one is directly empowered by the causeless mercy of Krsna, one cannot become the spiritual master of the entire world (jagad-guru). One cannot become an acarya simply by mental speculation. Srila Prabhupadas books also it is STRESSED: His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Founder-Acarya of the International Society For Krishna Consciousness. Founder** HYPEN** Acarya means that Srila Prabhupada is NOT ONLY the Founder BUT ALSO the Acarya of ISKCON.
It is also Srila Prabhupadas desire to REMAIN at the centre so all devotees take the advantage of receiving diksa from his Divine Grace. 67-02-11. Letter: Kirtanananda I wish that each and every Branch shall keep their independent identity and cooperate keeping the Acarya in the centre. On this principle we can open any number of Branches all over the world. The Ramakrishna mission works on this principle and thus as organization they have done wonderfully. Srila Prabhupada is the current authorised acarya of discplic succession. One can only become acarya when is ordered or noone can be bonafide http://www.facebook.com/l/030b4/acarya.It is only the uttama adhikari acarya Prabhupada that is able to transmit diksa (spiritual Initiation) into the madhyam adhikaris heart whereby he is enabled to see Krsna and relish loving mellows in his svarupa. So in conclusion there can only be one initatiating acarya but there can be many *ritvik acarya* instructors.Srila Prabhupada who fulfilled the original prophecy of Lord Chaitanya: “In every town and village on this earth the glories of My name will be chanted.” He also established a system whereby he could initiate long into the future via priestly representatives (ritviks). So there is really nothing left for a future acarya to do; Srila Prabhupada has already done everything. ALL GLORIES TO SRILA PRABHUPADA."
Tuesday, March 8, 2011
Gurus living like evil Kings while subjects suffer
Miloni The Vedas rather tell a Grihasta to actually support themselves and their families. A temple is not a place for filling pockets but to help those who are unfortunate. If one gets married, then it is their responsibility to support their family. Of course "The Vaishnava-Apradha" shield is there. :-)
Sakshi As Iskcon 'grhastas', we slept on the cold floors of rented homes and donated 'ALL' our income to 'projects' and 'holy men.' It was only after leaving Iskcon that Sri Krsna gave us our own home, hot fragrant baths, water beds, and a complication reduction bonus :-) Jai Sri Bhagavan!
Miloni Good for you prabhu. I was moved to hear your story. As i always say, these chandalas have always been mis-quoting vedas. Not only that ... wherever rascal anacondas, pythons, and crocs reside in temples, they make Bhagvan go away. Bhagvan is never present wherever falsehood is accommodated and given importance to ..... the Supreme Lord is only present wherever truth is present!
PADA:This was the main component of the Windle Turley lawsuit against the leaders: while these leaders were living in five star hotels, getting fifty course feasts, with servants, luxury cars, computers, gold toilets and so on, many "gurukula" c...hildren in their care were being systematically starved, being fed rotten oatmeal that had green mold growing on it (so the children vomited while eating it) and it was hard for these children to get ordinary supplies like clothes, blankets, soap, and some died from medical neglect. OK many of these kids were also being sexually abused and molested and even beaten on a regular basis. Some of these children had stunted growth and their teeth were rotten at age 15. All this violence against children had to be done to these children so that -- money meant to care for these children could be siphoned off for these opulent jet set gurus. These gurus stole the children's money so they could live like kings -- and force these children to rot in these gurus's self made hell. Of course this is why these gurus are now suing akhaya patra folks, they want to starve more children. ys pd
Sakshi As Iskcon 'grhastas', we slept on the cold floors of rented homes and donated 'ALL' our income to 'projects' and 'holy men.' It was only after leaving Iskcon that Sri Krsna gave us our own home, hot fragrant baths, water beds, and a complication reduction bonus :-) Jai Sri Bhagavan!
Miloni Good for you prabhu. I was moved to hear your story. As i always say, these chandalas have always been mis-quoting vedas. Not only that ... wherever rascal anacondas, pythons, and crocs reside in temples, they make Bhagvan go away. Bhagvan is never present wherever falsehood is accommodated and given importance to ..... the Supreme Lord is only present wherever truth is present!
PADA:This was the main component of the Windle Turley lawsuit against the leaders: while these leaders were living in five star hotels, getting fifty course feasts, with servants, luxury cars, computers, gold toilets and so on, many "gurukula" c...hildren in their care were being systematically starved, being fed rotten oatmeal that had green mold growing on it (so the children vomited while eating it) and it was hard for these children to get ordinary supplies like clothes, blankets, soap, and some died from medical neglect. OK many of these kids were also being sexually abused and molested and even beaten on a regular basis. Some of these children had stunted growth and their teeth were rotten at age 15. All this violence against children had to be done to these children so that -- money meant to care for these children could be siphoned off for these opulent jet set gurus. These gurus stole the children's money so they could live like kings -- and force these children to rot in these gurus's self made hell. Of course this is why these gurus are now suing akhaya patra folks, they want to starve more children. ys pd
Question about Radhanatha swami
Thanks prabhu, Yes I do believe that Radhanatha was involved in the murder of Sulochana, as well as for the past 30 years maintaining a general criminal program, going on not only at New Vrndavana but throughout ISKCON all along. Yes, I do not think this criminal element has been purged from ISKCON, at all. This is a good short analysis of Radhanatha's involvement in the Sulochana murder. Check it out. ys pd
CLICK for Radhanatha expose
CLICK for Radhanatha expose
Los Angeles Lord Chaitanya Festival
SRI GAURA PURNIMA HARE KRISHNA SOCIETY LOS ANGELES 2011
Saturday, March 19, 2011 5:00 PM 3722 Delmas Terrace,
No 5, Los Angeles, CA 90034
Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu Avirbhava tithi- Gaura Purnima -
sacred appearance day celebration of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu
Saturday, March 19, 2011 5:00 PM 3722 Delmas Terrace,
No 5, Los Angeles, CA 90034
Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu Avirbhava tithi- Gaura Purnima -
sacred appearance day celebration of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu
All kinds of links here about post 1977 history.
http://www.surrealist.org/betrayalofthespirit/betrayalfiles.html
CLICK for Betrayal Files
CLICK for Betrayal Files
Seattle Lord Chaitanya Festival flyer
http://krishnaconsciousnessmovement.com/gpflyer2011.html
Seattle Festival Flyer
Seattle Festival Flyer
Saturday, March 5, 2011
Narayan Maharaja, Demigod or Demon?
http://iskcontruth.blogspot.com/2011/03/narayana-maharaj-demigod-or-demon.html
CLICK TO VIEW
CLICK TO VIEW
Friday, March 4, 2011
Devotees getting "bad karma"?
Thanks prabhu, Yes, forgiveness is the quality of a devotee, except in our philosophy, a devotee sometimes has to oppose wrong headed ideas, as did all of the acharyas, they preached in opposition to many deviations from the Vedic teachings. Then again, Arjuna wanted to forgive his opponents and Krishna said, it is the duty of a devotee to oppose wrong doers. So forgive, but do not forget. Arjuna was also not getting bad karma, this is not the right idea, he was being wronged, a devotee does not get bad karma generally speaking, a devotee is generally wronged by wrong doers. This is not his "bad karma." ys pd
Nice Singing by Atmarama dasa (Sri Krishna Chaitanya)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUn1kMoGeOs
Click here to view video:
Click here to view video:
Thursday, March 3, 2011
Rare Video of Srila Prabhupada (Rome Italy 1974)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCuNtE0JdTY
Click here to view
Click here to view
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's book: comments by Dhamaghosa dasa
Hare Krsna to all
Pranams
Glories to Prabhupada
We continue to read at breakfast time the book entitled "Brahmana and Vaisnava" by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj. It is a most excellent treatise on the finer distinctions of bhakti and helps us understand more clearly, what went wrong with the Hare Krsna Movement.
Let me relay a few of his words below.....
"Those who traverse the descending process are qualified to reach the Absolute Truth. But since those who traverse the ascending process have accepted the external ascending path to reach the undisputed destination, they have become eager to minimize the glories of the Absolute Truth. As a result, even though they proudly advertise their faith in the Vedas, their actual intention is to disregard the Vedas. This is clearly understood...."
How many times have we seen clear distortions to the words and instructions over the past 35 years of Srila Prabhupada? Something as simple as offering bhoga is now totally the opposite to what he taught to us, in practically ALL of his temples! And this has all come about because certain leading devotees accept the ascending process of mental speculation instead of total acceptance of the descending process of words coming straight from Prabhupada himself. Srila Prabhupada once said the difference between the so called scientists and us is that we use the descending process and they use the ascending process. So these so called devotees have come under the spell of Maya and are now using her methods instead of her masters.
"Whenever the sages gave explanations on the Vedas that were contrary to the actual purport of the Vedas, differences in their respective realizations arose. On the ascending path, one sage attacks another sage and tries to establish his own opinion. In the descending path, however, there is no such outrage or drawback. The varieties that are perceived are all used in the service of the nondual Personality of Godhead; one does not become puffed up or averse to Hari...."
When one loses perception and rememberance of his eternal position, namely being a humble servant of his spiritual master, he can no longer speak rightly because his speech is now dictated by Maya, not God or Guru. When this illusion takes over, one cant even perceive his present position since his original position has already been lost. Due to enviousness and an intense hankering for sense gratification these people are impelled by sinful desires to remove their own spiritual guide from his rightful position as sole Acarya of his own temples and they then concoct opinions which differ from their own spiritual masters. All this is due to offenses committed against him by refusing to obey his commands to us all. They have no respect, basically, due to excessive pride and envy of the exhalted position of a Paramahamsa pure devotee of the Lord.
And the proof they are wrong is that they continually contradict themselves and one another and have continued to do so-- for 34 years now.!!!
On the other hand the Prabhupadanugas have held fast to one conclusion since Prabhupada departed. That conclusion is this --He, Srila Prabhupada is the current, and living Acarya who is fully competent to deliver the entire world back to home back to Godhead thru his voluminous instructions, conversations, books, lectures and murti form. One definition of a bona fide guru (and devotee) is that he is brahma nistham--FIXED, he doesn't change his opinion year to year !!
"...Wherever respect for the spiritual master has been diminished, the ascending process , in the form of disobeying the spiritual master, has simply created a perverted mentality of vivarta vada, or the Mayavada theory of illusion, filled with pride and nourished by the four defects like committing mistakes and being illusioned. This diseased mentality eventually turns into a mine of licentiousness...."
Does this licentiousness need be explained here?? The massive falldowns, the crushing of thousands of devotees material and spiritual lives, the murder of devotees, the bad publicity, the breaking of even civil laws, what to speak of the overall degradation in the publics eyes of the once pure and powerful Hare Krsna Movement .This is all the result of disrespect for the pure Vaisnava Spiritual Master Srila Prabhupada.
"When persons who disregard the spiritual master try to understand the Vedic literatures through their evil attempts, differences of opinion automatically arise in their understanding. But if the sages give up their pride of seminal birth and become fixed in real knowledge by following the descending path, then their recitation of songs from the Sama veda will be non different from that of the Rg Veda. Those who are proud of seminal birth and whose bodily conception of life is very prominent are not qualified to hear the instructions of the spiritual master. When the sages subdue their material pride and live in a gurukula to study the Vedas they are able to comprehend the hearing and studying of the Vedas...."
Again here Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj slams the inordinate pride of the smarta class of so called spiritualists. How many times have iskcon leaders been humbly approached by Prabhupadanugas for discussion of the ills of our movement, and then been spat upon, thrown out on the street, ridiculed and even tortured?? Is this the mentality of a sadhu, what to speak of a Vaisnava? Is this how Srila Prabhupada taught us to deal with each other?
"...The wordly or social, smrtis may please and bring auspiciousness to people, but they misguide those who traverse the descending path from their goal and cause their downfall....Those who have been permanently qualified in the kingdom of aversion to the Lord are alone incapable of attaching importance to the service of the Lord Hari, through wordly or Vedic performances..."
Car puja anyone?? How about some demi god worship along with Radha Krsna seva? Or how about having someone sing opera instead of Krsna kirtan in front of Radha Krsna? Some temples are operating bingo games for profit to the temple. Some "swamis" lend money, that was supposed to have been collected for the Deities, lend this same money to the temples Deities-- with interest !! God now needs to take out a loan !!
All this madness comes about when persons disregard the words and instructions of their own spiritual master. So these misleaders have destroyed the pure path of bhakti set out by Srila Prabhupada. These misleaders preach that car pujas will help you-- if your car has been blessed by some "priest". Yet in India, the land of puja, where has it ever become SAFE to drive along side of the millions of maniacs that have had their cars/ tongas/ rickshaws so "blessed"?
What to speak: this thing has never been even mentioned by Srila Prabhupada as a "service" to the Deities. This so called service is to the congregation only, thinking of yet another way to fill the temple coffers with ill gotten money.
The result of all this deception and illusion is that the actual path of bhakti has been obscured by madness and greed. Because these people put more importance upon things of this world, and not correct importance on the things of the spiritual world, Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj states - "they misguide those who traverse the descending path from their goal and cause their downfall" .
Let us not be so fooled by this charlatans of Kali yuga by praying to Srila Prabhupada to keep us purely engaged at his holy lotus feet.
Hare Krsna
Damaghosa das
Pranams
Glories to Prabhupada
We continue to read at breakfast time the book entitled "Brahmana and Vaisnava" by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj. It is a most excellent treatise on the finer distinctions of bhakti and helps us understand more clearly, what went wrong with the Hare Krsna Movement.
Let me relay a few of his words below.....
"Those who traverse the descending process are qualified to reach the Absolute Truth. But since those who traverse the ascending process have accepted the external ascending path to reach the undisputed destination, they have become eager to minimize the glories of the Absolute Truth. As a result, even though they proudly advertise their faith in the Vedas, their actual intention is to disregard the Vedas. This is clearly understood...."
How many times have we seen clear distortions to the words and instructions over the past 35 years of Srila Prabhupada? Something as simple as offering bhoga is now totally the opposite to what he taught to us, in practically ALL of his temples! And this has all come about because certain leading devotees accept the ascending process of mental speculation instead of total acceptance of the descending process of words coming straight from Prabhupada himself. Srila Prabhupada once said the difference between the so called scientists and us is that we use the descending process and they use the ascending process. So these so called devotees have come under the spell of Maya and are now using her methods instead of her masters.
"Whenever the sages gave explanations on the Vedas that were contrary to the actual purport of the Vedas, differences in their respective realizations arose. On the ascending path, one sage attacks another sage and tries to establish his own opinion. In the descending path, however, there is no such outrage or drawback. The varieties that are perceived are all used in the service of the nondual Personality of Godhead; one does not become puffed up or averse to Hari...."
When one loses perception and rememberance of his eternal position, namely being a humble servant of his spiritual master, he can no longer speak rightly because his speech is now dictated by Maya, not God or Guru. When this illusion takes over, one cant even perceive his present position since his original position has already been lost. Due to enviousness and an intense hankering for sense gratification these people are impelled by sinful desires to remove their own spiritual guide from his rightful position as sole Acarya of his own temples and they then concoct opinions which differ from their own spiritual masters. All this is due to offenses committed against him by refusing to obey his commands to us all. They have no respect, basically, due to excessive pride and envy of the exhalted position of a Paramahamsa pure devotee of the Lord.
And the proof they are wrong is that they continually contradict themselves and one another and have continued to do so-- for 34 years now.!!!
On the other hand the Prabhupadanugas have held fast to one conclusion since Prabhupada departed. That conclusion is this --He, Srila Prabhupada is the current, and living Acarya who is fully competent to deliver the entire world back to home back to Godhead thru his voluminous instructions, conversations, books, lectures and murti form. One definition of a bona fide guru (and devotee) is that he is brahma nistham--FIXED, he doesn't change his opinion year to year !!
"...Wherever respect for the spiritual master has been diminished, the ascending process , in the form of disobeying the spiritual master, has simply created a perverted mentality of vivarta vada, or the Mayavada theory of illusion, filled with pride and nourished by the four defects like committing mistakes and being illusioned. This diseased mentality eventually turns into a mine of licentiousness...."
Does this licentiousness need be explained here?? The massive falldowns, the crushing of thousands of devotees material and spiritual lives, the murder of devotees, the bad publicity, the breaking of even civil laws, what to speak of the overall degradation in the publics eyes of the once pure and powerful Hare Krsna Movement .This is all the result of disrespect for the pure Vaisnava Spiritual Master Srila Prabhupada.
"When persons who disregard the spiritual master try to understand the Vedic literatures through their evil attempts, differences of opinion automatically arise in their understanding. But if the sages give up their pride of seminal birth and become fixed in real knowledge by following the descending path, then their recitation of songs from the Sama veda will be non different from that of the Rg Veda. Those who are proud of seminal birth and whose bodily conception of life is very prominent are not qualified to hear the instructions of the spiritual master. When the sages subdue their material pride and live in a gurukula to study the Vedas they are able to comprehend the hearing and studying of the Vedas...."
Again here Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj slams the inordinate pride of the smarta class of so called spiritualists. How many times have iskcon leaders been humbly approached by Prabhupadanugas for discussion of the ills of our movement, and then been spat upon, thrown out on the street, ridiculed and even tortured?? Is this the mentality of a sadhu, what to speak of a Vaisnava? Is this how Srila Prabhupada taught us to deal with each other?
"...The wordly or social, smrtis may please and bring auspiciousness to people, but they misguide those who traverse the descending path from their goal and cause their downfall....Those who have been permanently qualified in the kingdom of aversion to the Lord are alone incapable of attaching importance to the service of the Lord Hari, through wordly or Vedic performances..."
Car puja anyone?? How about some demi god worship along with Radha Krsna seva? Or how about having someone sing opera instead of Krsna kirtan in front of Radha Krsna? Some temples are operating bingo games for profit to the temple. Some "swamis" lend money, that was supposed to have been collected for the Deities, lend this same money to the temples Deities-- with interest !! God now needs to take out a loan !!
All this madness comes about when persons disregard the words and instructions of their own spiritual master. So these misleaders have destroyed the pure path of bhakti set out by Srila Prabhupada. These misleaders preach that car pujas will help you-- if your car has been blessed by some "priest". Yet in India, the land of puja, where has it ever become SAFE to drive along side of the millions of maniacs that have had their cars/ tongas/ rickshaws so "blessed"?
What to speak: this thing has never been even mentioned by Srila Prabhupada as a "service" to the Deities. This so called service is to the congregation only, thinking of yet another way to fill the temple coffers with ill gotten money.
The result of all this deception and illusion is that the actual path of bhakti has been obscured by madness and greed. Because these people put more importance upon things of this world, and not correct importance on the things of the spiritual world, Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaj states - "they misguide those who traverse the descending path from their goal and cause their downfall" .
Let us not be so fooled by this charlatans of Kali yuga by praying to Srila Prabhupada to keep us purely engaged at his holy lotus feet.
Hare Krsna
Damaghosa das