Monday, September 30, 2013

Krishna Kanta Desai's (IRM) Compromising

Hare Krsna PADA Prabhu. All Glories to His Divine Grace, A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. All Glories to the Prabhupadanugas. Please accept my humble obeisances. 

Dear PADA Prabhu, I talked to some so-called Prabhupadanugas, who are followers of Krishna Kanta Desai Prabhu. I don't know where to write this comment, I will join Your Google Group very soon. 

Dear Krishna Kanta Desai Prabhu, you betrayed, His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada!!! Your disciple said to me;"We must leave everything to Lord Krsna and Srila Prabhupada". Srila Prabhupada will ask the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Krsna to intervene. 

Furthermore, he told me that it was the karma of the abused ex gurukuli's!!! They deserved what happened to them! If he didn't live in another city, I would get there, and as a woman break all his teeth!!! Krishna Kanta Desai Prabhu, what are you doing? You teach them to read only Hindi books from bogus writers, not the Bhagavata Gita as it is.

=========================

[PADA: Yes, Krishna Kanta Desai virulently opposed PADA when we forwarded the poison issue in 1997. He said this issue would make a wedge so that he could not make a compromise with the GBC gurus, and he was meeting with those gurus to "make a deal." He complained that PADA was wrecking his deal brokering process, and if we would stop our PADA newsletters, and the poison issue, then he could get the GBC to become ritviks. We said nope, you cannot make a deal with rascals.

Thus in 1997, KKD / IRM wanted us to stop writing the PADA newsletter and to go live in the Caribbean, and they were going to pay for me to stop writing and send me on a permanent vacation there. Of course if I were living in the Caribbean at that time, then I probably would have been assassinated there. 

Then, KKD said that we were ALSO wrong to address the child molesting issue. He said (as did some of the GBC's gurus clan) that the molesting and resultant suicides of the children was "their karma." And that is also what Narayana Maharaja said, "what is the problem, yes the program we support molests children, but so what, it is their karma." In other words, the IRM wanted to support the people who created all the molesting and "work with them." Which is of course why the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Pancali group always cite the IRM as their authority, they agree with the IRM strategy to surrender to the molester messiahs program, and kick the children under the bus.  

And so shortly after that, the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad group joined with KKD on opposing the molesting issue to defend the molester infrastructure leaders, and so they all agreed on the policy that the children oppressing regime should be saved, and the children should just be molested, and then they should not protest, and they should just die. Why? "Its their karma," and so -- who gives a hoot? 

And these folks were (and still are) infuriated that anyone would interfere with their giving bad karma to these children. They claimed that the children were just getting what they deserved, thus we should not point out the defects of the molester guru program, because they wanted to form an alliance with that regime, and the children should simply suffer in silence. And if there is a suicide problem, so what, who cares, they deserve to die, its their karma.   

Then they wondered why we have to get help from the karmis when these "great devotees" are jack booting children in the head like this? They actually still believe it has been their duty to have suicides of children continue, so the children could get their karma. But its not their karma? If you folks are trying to work with the molester regime, and simultaneously are impeding PADA from helping these children, then the molesting problem and resultant suicide problem becomes YOUR karma, because you are compromised with their regime. And then they wonder why people think they are such sick and evil fools? People treat their dogs better than many of these people treat Srila Prabhupada's children.     

So they have been protecting the GBC molester gurus program indirectly, as IRM has done by trying to thwart us, or directly as the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Pancali / Nickalus Evens team is doing today, by their working with Bhakta das to promote the GBC guru regime leaders like Radhanath, again -- as they are still doing today. So they are in different ways still in love with the molester messiahs program and that is why they oppose us for exposing their program, because they are still in league with that program by their promoting / defending.      

A vaishnava is not happy to see others suffering, while these IRM / NM / Prahlad people are applauding children's suffering by saying, they deserve it, let them suffer and die, who cares if children suffer? Lets work with the regime that victimized these children, as KKD wanted to do in 1997, and as the Prahlad people are doing by working with Bhakta / Radhanath today. They are compromised with the molester guru regime, and that is why they are saying these children are just getting what they deserved. 

So this is why even the karmi public is appalled by these people like IRM / Prahlad / Pancali / Nickalaus Evans folks, these people wanted to see children suffer and even die, and anyone who helps the children, they will kick them in the head with their jack boots. They are apparently infuriated that some children -- lived? The children should just get their karma, and die, who cares? And its worse than not caring, they are actually infuriated that some of these children are still alive, they wanted the children to suffer and die and "get their karma." 

OK, but who put the GBC guru regime / NM / KKD / IRM / Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad people in charge of dishing out this type of karma to children? So they are basically alike with the GBC gurus, they think they have the authority to dish out karma to others. Even children.  

They actually wanted children to suffer and even die and they are infuriated anyone would try to save these children. Yes, karmis always ask me that all the time, how sick are these people? They never heard of such sick and evil people before, they want children to suffer and die, just so these children can "get their karma"? The karma this group is causing itself. So yes, that helps cover up for the GBC gurus program. They are still with that agenda. 

And that is why Prahlad is now licking the jack boots of Bhakta and Radhanath, he is licking the jack boots of the leaders of the molester messiahs program. That means he loves the molester messiahs and he is angry that some of his children victims were saved from "getting karma" of molesting and suffering. They are actually angry that some people are not suffering and "getting their karma"? That means they are still in love with the molester messiahs program and the idea that defended that program -- "its karma," and yes, that is what some in the molester messiahs program also said. So they are still in league with the molester messiahs, that is the same argument that we heard from some of them at the time, and so the IRM / Prahlad simply has now joined with that campaign. 

Meanwhile, the IRM opposed the poison issue and still does? Again this shows how that Prahlad team is trying to suppress the poison issue by working with the opponents of that issue.

So they are still thinking that there will be some big happy reunion of the GBC and the IRM, and Krishna will arrange that. OK what they are really saying is that no one should address the molesting and poison issue, to save the necks of their bogus gurus. So the IRM has failed, and that is why they were eventually booted out of Bangalore, they want a compromise with the evil doers, and that is why they have not been taken too seriously. 

And that is why Prahlad cites the IRM all the time, he wants to join with KKD in a compromise with the molester messiahs "let them all die, its their karma" program as well. Prahlad actually supports the people who said we need to chop up these children, so he wants to dish out even worse karma to the victims of his program. No wonder he is working with the IRM now. They never answer the first question, who authorized either the molester messiahs, or their defenders like the IRM / Prahlad, to dish out this karma in the first place? Are you folks better than Yamaraja? 

They said this is all karma, that means they think they are equals to Lord Yama, they are authorized to orchestrate having children molested and then have them die from suicides. They actually believe they are equals to Lord Yama and they can dish out karma to children like this. No one is allowed to dish out molesting and suicide karma to children like this, anymore than we can dish out karma to cows and kill and eat them. That's not our job description, acting like Lord Yama. 

Hence, they were infuriated (and they still are) because I said we need to address the poison issue, save the children etc. Well too bad, most people agreed with us that these are important issues, the cat is now out of the bag. Thus KKD is dwindling in influence because of his compromise attitude. So right now, we are gaining momentum like anything, while the IRM is losing, because the IRM folks are somehow tethered to the GBC's guru program. More and more people are agreeing with us, the bogus appointment issue, changed books issue, the molesting issue, poison issue, every issue has to be addressed. We are not going to eliminate issues to save the GBC gurus and their compromiser crew. 

All these compromisers are falling away because, almost everyone is gradually waking up to the fact that the GBC gurus are evil, and the people who defend them by saying their victims are getting karma, are the other side of the same coin as these bogus gurus. These fools are also then de facto saying, Srila Prabhupada got his karma to get poisoned, because they are defending the team that caused that complaint from him. Sorry, you people are not authorized to dish out these karmas to others, you simply are -- not! ys pd]

Sunday, September 29, 2013

Another Example Of Neglect Of The Elderly And Sick (Padyavali dd)

http://m.dandavats.com/?p=1628

~ H.G. Padyavali d.d. (ACBSP) is in need of our collective Prayers ~ Presently, she is in a nursing home in Vancouver (New Westminster), Canada …. without daily devotee association and is suffering terribly. We were finally able to spend 5 quality hours alone together, and she has revealed her mind. She is powerless because of end stage dementia from Parkinson’s disease, which she was diagnosed with in 2001 ~ Please write your well-wishes and your prayers and send them via email: devavati@yahoo.com … I will deliver your offerings a.s.a.p. ~ With Love, in service - ~Hare Krishna~

[PADA: This is another example of how people who spent most of their lives as devotees are ending up on public health care and welfare, sometimes living alone in a horrible public nursing home with little or no support from the devotee community, because the bogus GBC's ISKCON society often does not care for its sick and / or elderly rank and file devotees. 

Expensive and extended health care is of course always there for their big fat bogus gurus like Jayapataka, and Satsvarupa writes that he has been flying all over the world looking for health treatments, making him a jet-set health treatment seeker etc. And then again some of these gurus go to Cedars Sinai when they have a sore thumb. 

So there are apparently unlimited funds to get extensive medical treatments for these elite gurus, along with servants, temple supplied housing, and so on and so forth, while the peons get little or none. As one devotee said a long time ago, "These GBC gurus are engaged is an economic warfare against their God brothers. This is all about control of money and nothing more." ys pd] 

Srila Prabhupada: Why This Gaudiya Matha Failed?

Prabhupadanugas Spanish Language Preaching Expanding

[PADA: A number of Spanish speaking devotees are now taking to the Prabhupadanuga idea. For example, ex-followers of a GBC guru from Latin America are now happily reading the PADA web sites and etc., and they are preaching our idea in Latin America. Radha Krishna das of course started this a long time ago with his expose web sites in the Spanish language. 

Below is an example of a nice devotee who is preaching in Spanish language named Haripada das. Of course we are also getting similar people following our idea from other languages, for example a Hindi speaking person wrote to tell us he will only accept Srila Prabhupada as his guru, and he is preaching that to his associates in the Hindi language. 

There are also devotees who are translating PADA materials into other languages. Aparkrt das (Montreal) is also preaching nicely in French language and he has many followers in Quebec and France etc. 

Meanwhile we are getting all kinds of hits from far away places like Lithuania, Germany, France, Italy, South Africa, Sweden, Korea, China, Taiwan, Singapore, Greece, Chile, and so on, and we are sure people there are then preaching our ideas in local languages there. Anyway, here is an example of Haripada's writings. ys pd      

============================

The love for Srila Prabhupada and Krishna, or God, Haripada dasa.
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, if I have no love for Srila Prabhupada and Krishna, or God, its useless. 

Now could I have the gift of preaching and know all the secrets of the revealed scriptures and all knowledge, if I have no love for Srila Prabhupada and Krishna, or God, its useless.

Now could I have a faith that can move mountains, if I have not love for Srila Prabhupada and Krishna or God, its useless.

Now could I give in charity all the money in the world if I have no love for Srila Prabhupada and Krishna, or God, is useless.

The love for Srila Prabhupada and Krishna or God, is comprehensive, it is helpful and does not envy or pride, it is not rude or selfish, is not provoked, takes no account of evil, does not rejoice in injustice, but rejoices with the Absolute Truth. Bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things, THAT LOVE IS ETERNAL BLISS FILLED.

That Jagat-guru, the savior of the fallen, Saktyāveśa Avatar, MOR PATI SENA, THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE SPIRITUAL FORCES OF SRI GAURANGA MAHAPRABHU, HIS DIVINE GRACE ABHAY CHARANARAVINDA BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA bless and protect you all.
OM TAT SAT PEACE AND WELL
http://haripadadas.blogspot.com
OM TAT SAT

Hare Krishna and the Russian Orthodox Church

Saturday, September 28, 2013

Pure Devotees Do Not Support False Gurus (re: Vishnave Maharaja)


Vishnave Maharaja: We are so tired of ISKCON bashing! You were doing alright there, until you started criticizing, Srila Narayana Maharaja, Srila Sridar Maharaja, & Sri Gour Govinda Maharaja. These three "pure devotees", do not belong in this category of "self appointed bogus gurus" of the hbgbs, that you so graphically portray. Do you know which hell you will go to, for making this offense? Really Prabhu... get off of it!

PADA: The supporters of the GBC gurus are responsible for empowering, encouraging, allowing and promoting them. When Krishna goes after the demon kings, He also attacks their supporters, advocates and defenders. This is called collective karma. Do we know what kind of hell awaits false gurus? Yes, the most obnoxious regions, and guess what? The promoters and supporters of false go there with them. Pure devotees do not support debauchees, fools, drug addicts, criminals and molesters posing as gurus, this is not the behavior of ANY pure devotees, its not even the behavior of ordinary mundane karmis, its forbidden activity. ys pd

ISKCON Leaders Alienating More Women Update

GBC Gurus Rasika Program Exposed!


[PADA: Right if you are a man, who is inclined towards illicit sex, drugs, rock and roll music and other forms of tomfoolery, when you enter the GBC's guru sabha, the overall GBC managers fall off their seats, bow down and kiss your lotus like Nike-clad feet, thinking you are a messiah from on high. They not only wash your feet, they think you are the sum total of the demigods and the living spokesman for God. 

If you are a woman however, the GBC guru sabha goes out of their way to disqualify you from even speaking. Sulochana used to call them the "anti - woman and pro - homosexual" program. Anyway, the good news is some women kicked the rear ends of some of these bogus GBC swamis here, and its about time. ys pd] 



Govinda Dasi, Dear Maharaj,

Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

I am grievously embarrassed by this article. Even if you have to maintain these incredibly obnoxious attitudes toward women in order to maintain your tapas of celibacy, still it is shocking that you would speak in this manner publicly, and in a written and/or spoken forum!

Srila Prabhupada would NEVER have approved of such arrogance and verbal brutality; you could easily have said the very same thing in a kinder, more gentlemanly way. And thus not alienated an entire half of the human race--i.e. women.

I think you owe this lady, whoever she is, an apology.

I do not know who is your guru, but you are definitely NOT following the same Guru that I am following, i.e. Srila Prabhupada.

Because of such kind of malicious and brutal behavior, many women will have nothing to do with today’s Iskcon. Devotee women even steer their daughters elsewhere.

Do you truly believe this is what Srila Prabhupada wanted? No. He told such men to go to the forest if they suffered from such degree of agitation.

Srila Prabhupada wanted, and wants, a worldwide society of Krishna Consciousness, for spreading the Yuga Dharma of the congregational chanting of the Holy Names of the Lord. Not a handful of angry, agitated men who sit on high chairs and foulmouth everyone else in the world--thinking they are God’s gift to humanity. And splitting hairs over who can do this and who can do that.

It is Lord Chaitanya’s prediction that the Holy Names will be chanted everywhere, so it will happen for certain. But perhaps because of attitudes and behaviors like this, the chanting of the Holy Names is now more widely propagated outside the corrupted walls of what you believe to be Iskcon.

Fortunately, Srila Prabhupada’s Iskcon encompasses far, far more than what most people understand. And it will spread in spite of such modern day misunderstandings of what Srila Prabhupada taught. 

Prabhupadanuga gurukula (?)

GBC has Wasted $30,000,000 Suing the Prabhupadanugas? (by Praghosha das)

[PADA: Yes, this is the old Praghosa das who was one of the biggest book distributors in ISKCON. Yep, he says that is $30 million dollars wasted.]

=================

Hello PRATYATOSA the sums I had mentioned were rough estimates and based on the available public facts on the subject. I am in no remotely conceivable way considered an ISKCON "insider" by anyone in or out of the mainstream institution. Not since 1986. Don't know how you could possibly conclude otherwise. BUT - the simple facts are that 99.9 per cent of all money spent by ISKCON on legal matters fall under Srila Prabhupada's definition of "misappropriation of funds." And yes - the figure is surely $30 million or more. -- Praghosa das

=================


Praghosa Das says:

Dear Pratyatosa Prabhu

Obeisances. all glories to Srila Prabhupada

You write :

“Great! We finally got you to say the word, “ritvik.” I didn’t think you had it in you.

You seem a bit confused prabhu. and a bit dodgy as well.

I have employed this term in every instance of recorded comment from myself since way back in my first effort in 1995 between myself and HH TKG. The essay you cited in your original questions to myself (1999) found me doing the same. Same with my comments in 2005.

I rely upon Srila Prabhupada’s own simple definition of the term: one who is singled out from amongst his happy servants and “selected, empowered and authorized” by him or his representatives -- to act “on behalf of Srila Prabhupada” as guru and assume full responsibility in the matter of who can and cannot be accepted as a bona fide initiated disciple in Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON mission.

This is the publicly recorded arrangement of Srila Prabhupada. Beginning with his conversations on May 27th and then the 28th -- he informed us as to what he planned to do. Then -- in June he did it and in July he informed us all what he did.

Once again -- for no apparent reason you again try to slight me. This time with the above pithy nonsense: .. ”Great! We finally got you to say the word, “ritvik.” I didn’t think you had it in you.

But it’s not “GBC / TP / Ritvik Acharya.” It’s “GBC / TP / Ritvik representative of the Acharya,” or simply “GBC / TP / Ritvik.” On May 28, 1977, when Tamal Krishna asked “Is that called ritvik-acharya?” Srila Prabhupada immediately corrected him and stated that the correct terminology is simply “ritvik.” 1½ months later, in his July 9, 1977 directive to all GBC men/temple presidents, Prabhupada further refined the terminology to “ritvik representative of the Acharya.” After that, he never again changed the terminology.

You again take liberties with what is said and give your meaning or interpretation to what is being said or was said by someone. In this case Srila Prabhupada.

He did not correct TKG when TKG asked "is that called ritivik acharya." He answered in the affirmative “Yes Ritivik”. He was not correcting. He was confirming. The word ritvik means empowered representative. TKG used term ritvik. Ritivik was not a word known to anyone at that time. There had been conversations on the subject initiated by Srila Prabhupada during that period and according to Gauri Das Pandit prabhu -- this was the only reason TKG even knew of the term to ask about it.

ISKCON has ALWAYS worked with the only realistic system that could work within the context of a formal worldwide mission if it was to the sanctity and importance of its 7 (stated) Purposes: ie a system that insisted those acting on Srila Prabhupada’s behalf -- as his agents -- were sworn to his Oath of Allegiance and committed to working hand and glove with HIS Governing Body. 

This is the very essence of the true meaning of “ritivik representative” or “officiatiing acharya”. I will waste no more time haggling with you over the terms or how they are placed. Ritivik Representative does not mean Priest in the context of Srila Prabhupada’s arrangements. The priest is the one who lights the fire and performs the ceremony 

The Ritivik Acharya takes personal responsibility in determining the legitimacy of a man’s professed “sincerity”. He is authorized to chant upon the man’s beads FOR SRILA PRABHUPADA. He is responsible for eliciting this man’s commitment to reciting with reverence and affection -- at least 16 rounds of the Lord’s Holy Name and to abide by the simple 4 proscriptions to which we are all familiar. 

He gives the initiate his new name. He himself -- (many do not realize this) is held accountable to Srila Prabhupada -- IF he -- the ritvik acharya -- fails to do all in his power to ensure the disicple’s LIFELONG commitment to these simple actions. He is doing all this on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. BUT HE -- is doing that. His doing so -- on behalf of Srila Prabhupada -- does not mean he is not actually doing this. Anymore than a mother’s doing all she does -- on behalf of the father -- means actually the father is doing everything.

“For the book distributors to go on strike is just one possibility to motivate the GBC to finally come clean and start telling the truth. Another possibility would be for Ambarish Prabhu to temporarily stop giving any money. Another possibility is for the Supreme Court of India to get on their case.”

This is all mundane conception. As if who gains or loses money is or even should be factored in as a means to resolve this issue. Were that the case -- then the 30 million and counting that has been already lost -- would have long ago served to move people back to the correct and simple solution.

You have not distributed any books in years. So technically -- you have been on the very strike you call for.

The BBT has botched things themselves. The GBC has botched that also. And most of us who were hard core book distributors -- also got married and were forced to do other than full time daily direct book distribution. To me -- in the end -- this is all of us -- in one way or the other -- going on strike so to speak. The only real reason books were ever distributed in the mass quantities of that period -- was because Srila Prabhupada wanted it to be done -- and most of us in ISKCON at that time -- took his desire as our own -- and WANTED to do that. 

After he left us -- each of us -- in our own way -- chose or were obliged -- to do something else. We all essentially -- went on strike. all that without any formal declaration of intent as you suggest. Now -- how has the above mentioned “strike” worked out for us? For Iskcon? In resolving this tenaciously contentious “guru issue”? Ahh…. I believe we all have an answer or two for that one.

“For their own good, the GBC has got to realize that the truth always wins out in the end, and that the longer they delay the inevitable, the more that they are going to have to suffer. Do they want to do down in history as the biggest fools/rascals in the history of Vaisnavism, or what?”

As I said -- the whole thing could be easily resolved within perhaps 1 Hour -- if all parties at the table are honest and sincere. From the day Srila Prabhupada “selected” some men -- to the exclusion of all other disciples -- we have had the exact system he left us. There are now some 10-12 thousand men and women whose initiating ritivik acharya himself -- either retired or fell away -- and the bulk of these men and women -- never saw it necessary to again search out another to RE- initiate them. Neither has any ISKCON leader of note -- insisted that they must do this. Even some of ISKCON’S present GBC members fall within this category and no pressure I am aware of has been directed towards them for taking this position.

Why not stop with the subtle slights you keep tossing my way and initiate a direct discussion that can bring about full resolution to this ultimately simple problem?

[PADA: OK, if they are willing to talk, why are they spending $30 Millions Dollars suing us? ys pd]

Cult Thinking can be Dangerous (Huffington Post)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-benscoter/extremist-brain_b_3998314.html

[PADA: We can learn from these folks, if nothing else, we should learn how the public perception will be negative if we allow cult - like behavior to overtake our religion. ys pd]

Friday, September 27, 2013

There is no such thing as "an original manuscript"

[PADA: This is actually good. ys pd]

Excerpts regarding the so called “original manuscript” by Govinda Dasi

Govinda Dasi

“It is unreasonable to consider that Srila Prabhupada would intend to give up the results of two years of editing the book with Hayagriva and go backwards to the original manuscripts.”

“Jayadvaita Maharaja says that he changed the Bhagavad-gita to be more in keeping with the original manuscript.’ I question which manuscript, since nearly two years of editing by Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva had already taken place before Jayadvaita even joined the movement. There certainly were many working drafts and manuscripts in various stages of editing, since Srila Prabhupada spent many hours, weeks and months going over every detail of every single verse of the Gita with Hayagriva. Jayadvaita Maharaja confirmed this in the second Hawaii istagosthi meeting: there is no one original manuscript.’

A writer usually prepares several working drafts before the final draft is polished and sent to press. For example, I made several drafts of this letter, correcting spelling, grammar and style. The first drafts are in my trash bin. I am signing this, the final draft, for publication. If someone took an earlier draft out of my trash bin and published it, I would be greatly annoyed. Similarly, Srila Prabhupada’s signature is on the final draft of the complete Bhagavad-gita As It Is (completed in 1968 but not published until 1972), not on any so-called original manuscripts’ Jayadvaita Maharaja may possess. To assume that Srila Prabhupada was not watching over and scrutinizing this whole process is absurd. His books were most important to him. He knew both internally and externally what was going into his books, and he signed and sealed the work when it was completed to his satisfaction and ready to go to press.”

“Certainly, the few typos that slipped through needed Srila Prabhupada’s correction, but the scope of alterations in Jayadvaita Maharaja’s edited version is far broader. Jayadvaita Maharaja’s version of Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gita doesn’t just correct typos; it also succeeds in changing Srila Prabhupada’s mood, style and often, his meaning. Indeed, after Srila Prabhupada’s departure, the original Bhagavad-gita was rewritten to suit the taste of the editors, on the plea that it is closer to – in Jayadvaita Maharaja’s opinion – the original manuscript.’ But Jayadvaita Maharaja stated in the second book changes meeting in Hawaii that there were many original manuscripts’ of varying quality and content. There is no one original manuscript.’

In this case, any changes are really unreasonable, when you consider that Srila Prabhupada had the original manuscripts in hand, but chose to sign off on the edited version. Why didn’t he just choose to print one of those manuscripts? Why did he, instead, spend hundreds of hours with Hayagriva, editing his manuscript to flow beautifully in the English language? Moreover, why would Srila Prabhupada sign it and gift it to the world, if he intended that future editors would dig up some so-called original manuscripts’ and try to change it back to the original.’ It is unreasonable to consider that Srila Prabhupada would intend to give up the results of two years of editing the book with Hayagriva and go backwards to the original manuscripts.’”

“When Jayadvaita Maharaja presents his rationale for editing Srila Prabhupada ‘s Bhagavad-gita As It Is to the public, he quotes a few passages from Bhagavad-gita As It Is that are obviously confusing, and claims, “these need to be changed.” For example, he cites “planet of the trees” [Bg. 1972 edition 10.24 P] and “cattle raising” [Bg. 1972 edition 18.44 T]. He uses these isolated examples to justify his wholesale rewriting of the entire Gita. Perhaps no one would object if Jayadvaita Maharaja had noted those few changes authorized by Srila Prabhupada in footnotes or an addendum, instead of making sweeping, unauthorized editorial changes to virtually the entire book. If he feels there are confusing aspects, or as he himself is fond of putting it, “goofs” in Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gita As It Is, then these portions can be selected and clarified in a published addendum or series of footnotes without changing the meaning of any other part of the book.”

“Jayadvaita Maharaja has rewritten the whole book according to some manuscripts that he believes to be the original – and which Srila Prabhupada did not choose to print. Rather, in both 1968 and 1972 Srila Prabhupada chose to print the edited version, not a manuscript.

The overriding fact is that Srila Prabhupada never told Jayadvaita Maharaja or anyone else to edit his books after he left. I repeat, Srila Prabhupada never gave Jayadvaita Maharaja or anybody authority to edit or change his books after his departure. Instead, he said, “Print the books the original way.” By late 1976, he was acutely aware of the American disease’ of compulsively changing things, so he chose the safest route to protect his books: "NO CHANGES."

Vedic Village Review #28 (Fiji)

Lord Narasimha Kavacham (prayer for protection)

http://youtu.be/XluLeHLkwZg

PADA: All Prabhupadanugas need the special protection of the Lord, may Lord Narasimha give us His protection! ys pd

Thursday, September 26, 2013

Bhakti Caru Swami "Correcting ISKCON's Guru System"

***CORRECTING ISKCON'S GURU SYSTEM***

BHAKTI CHARU SWAMI: Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura was an extremely brilliant personality who attracted countless luminaries of his time within the fold of his Gaudiya Matha. However, soon after his disappearance when the Gaudiya Matha disintegrated, in spite of all those luminaries the propagation of Krsna Consciousness practically stopped. 

Srila Prabhupada explained that, that happened because most his prominent followers could not understand the importance of continuing his mission through the institution he established. They held on to the traditional concept and concluded that a spiritual heritage could not effectively continue through an institution managed by a bunch of mundane managers, they defied the instruction of their spiritual master and appointed an acarya [who eventually fell down]. 

The institution that he so meticulously structured collapsed. Srila Prabhupada, in order to protect his ISKCON from such an unfortunate possibility, emphatically told us not to make the same mistake that his God-brothers made after his Guru Maharaja’s disappearance (and appoint premature gurus). 

He advised us to continue the mission under the authority of a collective management structure. Nevertheless, after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance, we in ISKCON also made the similar mistake. Thinking that Srila Prabhupada had appointed 11 successors we also plunged into the same exact syndrome of appointing spiritual heads of the institution, presuming that after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance they inherited ISKCON (and the acharya post).

In 1987, about 10 years after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance, this mistake was addressed by concerned leading devotees of ISKCON, but was not fully corrected. Just by adding more gurus, and allowing them to initiate wherever they could attract disciples, the original mistake was only diluted to some extent but was not really corrected. Recently, the GBC body became painfully aware that through that mistake a parallel line of authority has been created in ISKCON, which is causing a considerable amount of damage to the institution and is stifling the growth of the movement. 

It is very laudable of the GBC body that they have taken this issue very seriously and are working hard to rectify it. In order to effectively establish an institution we need two essential elements – the head of the institution, and its management structure. In ISKCON we have to be absolutely clear that Srila Prabhupada is the head of the institution and he will continue to be that as long as the institution lasts, and the management structure Srila Prabhupada established – the GBC, temple presidents, departmental heads, etc, must be fully functional without any deviation.

If we compare the institution of ISKCON to a corporate structure, then we must recognize that Srila Prabhupada is the proprietor of ISKCON, and the other leaders of this institution are the managers. The managers manage, and although they get their remunerations and incentives for that, the profit belongs to the proprietor. In ISKCON, it is important that we clearly recognize the fact that everything in ISKCON, including even all the devotees, belongs to Srila Prabhupada, then only this mistake that is stifling the growth of our institution will be rectified and Krsna Consciousness movement will start to spread once again, all over the world, in leaps and bounds. BCS

Bhakti Vikas Swami: "Rocana's Papers are Not Readable"

Jay Prabhu: Pratyatosa says: "Its something that Rocana wrote in 1996. He obviously changed his mind soon afterwards! Since then he has become more and more of a ritvik-bashing demon!  "

Unfortunately for Rocana, he has referenced and promoted his entire archive in his DOR paper, as the IRM point out in their rebuttal:

"DOR refers us to a complete listing of all other relevant articles by its author via 'Additional Resources' under 'Appendices & References' (pp. 153-156). Therein one finds DOR’s author presenting arguments which completely defeat the proposition that on his departure, Srila Prabhupada should have ceased initiating disciples via the representatives appointed in the July 9th directive."

That’s why it’s so hilarious that Rocana promotes TFO’s conclusion on his site; and it’s also hilarious that Bhakti Vikasa promotes DOR, and at the same, BVKS time says Rocana and his DOR are unreadable!:

BVKS: "Read this Defeat of Ritvikvada by Rocana, if you can read it. [...] It’s not readable. I mean it’s not, it’s not readable.” (BVKS Lecture, 4/2/2013)

Really, these jokers don’t know whether they’re coming or going, it’s just a comedy show. Krishnakant has run circles around them, and then trounced them good and proper

Mayapura ISKCON Begging for "One Square Foot" Donations

http://youtu.be/Y-A2GwzUwTc

PADA: Its amazing, some of them over the years said the TOVP building would be complete in 2004, 2008, 2010, 2014, 2016, and now its looking like maybe 3080 is the actual completion date.

Reason they cannot complete the building?

They are spending $15  - up to maybe $20 million dollars on foolish and un-required lawsuits suing the Prabhupadanuga Vaishnavas. And so now they are trying to get money for one square foot at a time. Yet, who wants to give them money when all they really want to do is to buy Mercedes for their lawyers, so their lawyers team can go and buy nice chicken tikkas, beedis, and a bottle of wine? And live in marble mansions?

The GBC was never serious about this, just like we had to protest for years about how they were neglecting and not completing the Srila Prabhupada samadhi. And now they are making a samadhi for Kirtanananda? Forsooth! ys pd      

RE: Bhagavat Maharaja (by Tamohara das)

Bhagavata Maharajah is lately telling abusive silly lies; Recently Bhagavata Swami is preaching , like NM did, that the Prabhupadanugas are in maya. They do not want Srila Prabhupada as the acarya . Yes, his guru says Srila Prabhupada only gave basics, but Srila Prabhupada says that his books are complete, and all we need do is honor and read them.

They try to pick out what they perceive as a weaker branch, in numbers, in order to attack someone, as if they are great philosophers, for cheap reputation as great pukka sadhus. It is disgusting and it is Vaisnava aparadha against thousands of Srila Prabhupada's disciples.

What are these people thinking, that they have a right to attack the disciples thrown out by murderers in itsacon co.? They will kick us when we are in a fight, let everyone remember this. Now these late crows want to join the poisoners party, and attack Prabhupada's disciples, talking like they are great scholars and others are fools. Well, we dont need NM, nor those who ran when the going got tough and now support NM instead of Srila Prabhupada exclusively. They are like wives with two husbands.

Wednesday, September 25, 2013

Govinda Dasi's Convoluted Editing Statements

[PADA: No literature made by any famous author is "edited posthumously." Period. ys pd]

From Govinda Dasi 

Dear Prabhus,

Please accept my humble obeisances. You have many good points; however, in order to come to agreement, the essential issue should be addressed here.

There will always be those who favor the posthumously edited edition, and there will always be those who favor the earlier edition that was read by Srila Prabhupada in classes, and in his lectures all over the world. Therefore, many people will present this perspective or that perspective, saying such things as "Rayarama was the best editor," or "Hayagriva was the best editor, or "Jayadvaita Swami was the best editor," and so on and on.

But this is NOT THE REAL ISSUE AT ALL.

THE REAL ISSUE IS the correct manner of posthumous editing--if it is to be done at all. Many people feel there should be NO posthumous editing. And many people believe there SHOULD BE posthumous editing to "correct various typos and grammatical problems."

AGAIN, THIS ALSO IS NOT THE REAL ISSUE.

THE REAL ISSUE IS THAT IF INDEED THERE IS TO BE POSTHUMOUS EDITING, IT MUST BE DONE CORRECTLY, ACCORDING TO THE ACCEPTED PROTOCOL THAT IS ALREADY ESTABLISHED IN THE WORLD OF PUBLISHING.

Otherwise, Srila Prabhupada's books are not considered to be authentic renditions of his writings, and are no longer acceptable to scholars. There are certain requirements for posthumous editing. These must be met.

And the BBT HAS NOT met those requirements in their posthumous editions.

The posthumously edition (editions) have not been correctly labeled according to the rules of publication. It is essential that any and all posthumous editions be dated and numbered, and that the editor (editors) names be prominently displayed on the cover and/or title page. There are other elements of proper protocol as well, and these can be easily accessed.

If everyone can come to understand this most essential point, there will be no conflict. Both editions can exist simultaneously, along with any and all future editions that may be done.

But they must be properly tagged with the editor's name, date of the edition, and number of the edition, in order to gain any respect or credibility in the academic world. This is the accepted procedure which also clearly defines what material was printed during an author's lifetime, and whatever was printed after his demise.

We cannot change these protocol according to our whims, or our preferences for this edition or that edition. To do so simply invalidates Srila Prabhupada's books, and means they can be changed whimsically in the future. This puts his writings at risk for becoming like the edited Biblical texts--no one really knows which edition is which, or what the original one even says.

This matter can be settled once and for all, by having all posthumous editions follow the accepted protocol. Once this is done, there will no longer be any contentious issues. The edition that was printed during Srila Prabhupada's lifetime will clearly be the original edition, and those editions that have been printed since his demise will be properly numbered and dated, and their various editors names will appear on the cover and/or title page.

Once this is done, people can choose the edition they prefer, and there will be no grounds for criticism. There will be no accusations of shabby, unprofessional presentations (as have been made by scholars) and no deceptiveness in the matter of book reviews written for the earlier edition. This correction will establish Srila Prabhupada’s books once again in the collegiate community, as they will honor the system used by scholars everywhere.

This is what needs to be corrected, once and for all.

Thank you for your time and efforts in this all important matter.

Your servant and sister,

Govinda dasi

Narasimha darsan

Hare Rama,
please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Please watch this virtual pilgrimage and take Darshan of Lord Narasimha and pray that he will help us Prabhupadanugas in this difficult situation.

Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
Part 4:

Greetings
Bhakta Robin 

Tuesday, September 24, 2013

RE: Devotees Being Kicked Out in Russia

[PADA: The article below explains one reason why the Russian Orthodox Church dislikes the Krishnas, because the GBC leaders are always saying that the worship of Jesus is bogus, fraudulent, "not found in shastra," and worse, they say that Lord Jesus is the posthumous, post samadhi, post mortem person. Not sure how much more disrespectful they could get? 

After attacking Jesus since 1978, then the leaders of ISKCON, after bashing Jesus all the time 24/7 day in and day out, wonder why the official Church of Russia is against them, and is having them kicked out? Amazing! 

Srila Prabhupada told us to respect Jesus and not call him the posthumous dead person. No wonder we are not being respected by many of the Christians, we are calling their guru the postmortem dead person, and then the foolish GBC wonders why we have alienated the Christians in places like Russia? 

Worse, the GBC has made deviants into their messiahs which has upset people all over the world. Pratyatosa prabhu is correct, unless the post-1978 Krishna religion starts to respect Jesus, then the religion will be attacked by them. This is called collective karma. ys pd]   

============================

Dear Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
According to <http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/krishna-yet-to-win-russian-hearts/article5151000.ece>, theRussian Orthodox Church doesn't like the Hare Krishnas! But can we blame them? The ISKCON leaders are saying that the Christian system of worshiping Lord Jesus Christ is bogus, because you need to have a "living guru!" So what do they expect? The ISKCON leaders aren't used to being opposed by an organization who can actual see that they are criminals/pretenders/offenders/bogus rascals.

Therefore, IMHO, this is a great opportunity for the Russian Prabhupadanugas. The Prabhupadanugas should arrange a meeting with the Church leaders, and tell them, "Yes. You are right. The 'Hare Krishnas' that you've been investigating are very bad. They worship pathetic criminals / losers as though they were God! We are the real Hare Krishnas and we say that worshiping Lord Jesus Christ is completely bona fide, and we don't worship criminals pretending to be gurus!"

If they can convince the Russian Orthodox Church leaders that a Hare Krishna temple in the Moscow area is inevitable, and that the Ritviks are much less of a threat to them, then they might start cooperating to the extent of allowing some land to be allocated 
for the building of an actually bona fide Hare Krishna temple.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

Subuddhi das "Suicide By Cop" (?)

PADA: My question is, if he insisted on living in a vehicle, ... since large (10-12 foot deck) passenger window vans in pretty good running order are sold for maybe $2,500 around here, why didn't the temple just buy him a legal and movable vehicle, a long time ago? He would not have been conspicuous because he could move it, and it would have been legal. Better yet, why not give him a room somewhere on the compound? ys pd
===============================

The devotees in LA didn't know what happened to Subuddhi for a few days after he was missing. They called the police to enquire and they said they had him and he was dead! They say Subudhhi threatened them and they shot him in self defense. I find it hard to believe that they really needed to shoot Subuddhi who never showed a temper in all the many years I knew him. This is a travesty of justice! So it's not like Subuddhi Prabhu intentionally commited suicide; he maybe acted in a way that made him get shot. Why can't they use a stun gun or something non lethal?! I smell a rat! Subuddhi didn't deserve that. Krsna must have taken him back after all. I still hope the police are held accountable. Sometimes they are too trigger happy and sometimes they get away with murder!
==============================

http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130921/gunman-shot-to-death-at-culver-city-police-station




PADA: This devotee was being harassed by the police for unpaid fines on his truck, a truck that was supposedly given to him by Vishnujana a long time ago. So he went to the police station and raised a gun at officers, so they shot and killed him. This is another example of how there are many senior devotees who are getting older, getting sick and etc. and they have no shelter, so they are resorting to desperation alternatives. This poor devotee apparently could not even afford to pay the fines on his vehicle, much less take care of himself in other ways.

Personally, we cannot blame them much for this type of thing, they are being shut out of their own religion. Its sort of like how the medieval Catholic church would have a person "shunned," so the person could not have any dealings with the society, thus he could not buy, sell, trade, talk to others, get married, and so on, so the "shunned" often just died shortly thereafter.

Of course, we have also heard of some younger aged ex-kulis who are pretty much destitute and living in vehicles and so on. Meanwhile, the GBC gurus are living like jet-set Saudi Princes with opulent lifestyles. This is all very nice except, when someone steals from the populace to live like a King, and one is not authorized to be the King, one has to pay it all back with interest compounding daily, and one will be working off the debt being paid one penny a day in Yama's coal mines. 

At the same time, these GBC gurus will not only have to pay back the money and use of assets they took away from people like Subbhudhi das, they will have to pay for all the suffering and misery they caused to all these devotees, and that is the real payback they will have to endure.

The people who make devotees suffer, cry, and die, will have to pay for all that, with interest compounding daily. Sorry, that is why these false gurus go to the lowest regions. And so do their supporters like Bhakta das and his GBC guru groupies, who are also in league with those responsible for the suffering they are causing others. So we should all pray for Subuddhi das that he will be given a nice situation to continue with his service to Srila Prabhupada and Krishna. ys pd

Subuddhi's Truck Being Towed Away

Lord Rama Denial is Allowed in Current ISKCON

PADA: Actually this is a good point from Rocana. People who say that Lord Rama is not an incarnation are allowed to speak openly to the public in ISKCON centers. Meanwhile the Prabhupadanugas (those who have faith in Lord Rama) are often banned, denied entry, and the GBC gurus are instead spending $15 - 20 million dollars suing us to stop us from speaking at all.

Meanwhile, there is no money to build the TOVP, to maintain tamples, to help dying devotees etc. because the GBC is spending all their money on new Mercedes for their lawyers. Rocana has done some service here by showing the actual words of some of these speakers that are invited by the GBC / Radhanath and others etc. So its clear, the GBC endorses the speaking of the mayavadas, sahajiyas, babajis, Lord Rama denial preachers, you name it, but stops us, because we promote Srila Prabhupada and his idea that Lord Rama is an incarnation. Thus, we are not allowed. ys pd

http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-13/editorials10740.htm

Monday, September 23, 2013

BBC show on previous lives

Message from the Sanat / Prahlad / Mukunda / Illumintati-ites

http://youtu.be/no0HvQcQlyc (by Muktipada das)

See related article:

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2012/12/muktipada-quits-sanat-steve-voith.html

PADA: The (anti) Illuminati-ites now claim "the Illuminati" wants to kill them. Question? If the Illuminati has sent a representative to talk to Muktipada das, and this representative wants to have him kill Sanat, why not report that Illuminati representative to the police? If the message from them came from a phone call, e-mail, or some other means, the FBI could trace that back to the source with their forensic technology. The Illuminati-ites never do that? We never find out who the actual culprits are, or even, if they exist?

This seems to be the problem with these folks, they want PADA to join with them in attacking the Illuminati, but they cannot identify who that is exactly, or even if such an organization even exists at all?

This sounds like a phantom operation, which has no basis in real life. Why would the Illuminati want to kill Sanat / Steve Voith -- who is getting psychological evaluations and social security payments for being crazy anyway? And if the Illuminati is all powerful, why have they not had us killed -- a long time ago?

And why would they give the job of hit man to Muktipada / Martin Goldman, who is not a hit man, but is a friend of Steve Voith? Sorry, this sounds like the Prahlad / Bhakta das / Sanat / Mukunda / Tamohara / Pancali / Janardan etc. crew are -- not taking their medications?  

=========================

Message from the Illuminati to the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad group:

Everything I speak of here about the illuminati agents contacting me occurred on Second Life in voice with pixelated avatars. This is the only text I recovered and it is condensed slighty although I can and will provide a full version if requested to: 

[2013/09/23 02:26] Ariel (ariel.silversmith): my family is part of the Illuminati
[2013/09/23 02:29] AmigaGonzales: thats what the illuminati is all about
[2013/09/23 02:29] AmigaGonzales: jews only
[2013/09/23 02:30] Ariel (ariel.silversmith): sign the contract
[2013/09/23 02:37] Ariel (ariel.silversmith): i don't think the elders will aprove at all
37] AmigaGonzales: but we cant control anything you do on your own
[2013/09/23 02:38] AmigaGonzales: hint hint
[2013/09/23 02:46] Ariel (ariel.silversmith): i'm really horny right now
[2013/09/23 02:50] AmigaGonzales: code 6


=======================================

[PADA: Jews only? OK, some of these Illuminati folks says that evil Zionists are in control of ISKCON, but is Martin Goldman of Jewish origins? Or what? And then on the message notice Ariel says "I am really horny right now." "I am really horny right now," is about killing people? Not making much sense here?

The Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad program also wanted people to worship Bob Dylan and put his photos on the altars, aka Robert Zimmerman, who was also from a Jewish background? Meanwhile, other people are writing to us saying -- this group is promoting neo-nazi-ism in the name of Krishna.

Then again the Illuminati was supposed to be a European operation, not a Jewish one? Are these people reading their history correctly?

And these are the people who want to take over the reform of ISKCON? This is the program of people like Prahlad, who are getting their messages from their "second life pixelated avatars"? In any case, it seems all they are doing is confusing people instead of fixing anything. This is really sad because it sounds to us like another Aniruddha type meltdown.

The good news is, that more people are waking up to the fact that Srila Prabhupada's movement was hi-jacked, the bad news is, some of these people are diverting away from the real culprits and sending us on a wild goose chase to fight phantom culprits and not the real trouble makers.

Then again, this is what happens when people mix up all kinds of: Illuminati, Skull and Bones, CIA, chemtrails, pixelated avatars, Jewish conspiracy, and all these things we commonly find in the Tamohara / Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Muktipada / Janardana / Bhakta das program. The ordinary people even know, this is nutty-ness, which is why they gave Sanat SSI for being crazy, they know these people are not sane and that they cannot deal with the real issues afflicting themselves and ISKCON. This is sad, these people are simply another wave of victims of the GBC's bogus gurus, and they cannot seem to find a way out. ys pd

==============================

NOTE ADDED 9/23/13

Thanks prabhu, yes the illuminati folks started their own "Prabhupadangas UK" group which has only 12 members, and the only poster, i.e. Prahlad das. And he has not even posted anything since July. Its dead. Our blog gets over 1,000 hits in one day, and sometimes 2 - 3,000 hits on certain days. The illuminutty folks are not being taken seriously because they have major holes in their ideas. No wonder their main point man Muktipada dasa says -- these people are abusive and have been driving him (and others) crazy.

* Yes, there is also no indication from Srila Prabhupada that he endorsed Prahlad's meat eating illuminati speakers and their DVDs. None.

* Yes, Prahlad is telling people to stop listening to the followers of Srila Prabhupada / Prabhupadanugas / PADA, and listen to his meat eating DVD authorities. Yes, this is driving them and anyone who listens to them cracker pots.

* Yes, that means they think their meat eater speakers are superior authorities to the Vaishnavas.

* Yes, Prahlad is trying to link Srila Prabhupada to his meat eating DVD program. Where does Srila Prabhupada even remotely say, we need to listen to Prahlad's meat eater speakers?

* Yes, Srila Prabhupada says just the opposite, we should avoid hearing from these mundane speculators.

* Yes, the Prahlad group has aligned themselves with Tamohara das, who is always citing the problems he is having with: The CIA, The Skull and Bones society, The Illuminati, The 9/11 truthers, and of course the passenger airplanes that are crop dusting the masses with chem-trails, and who knows what else. Even normal karmi citizens know this Tamohara fellow is a total paranoid lunatic.

* Yes, Tamohara is also saying that Gaura Govinda swami is a pure devotee. Yes, GGM is voted in as a guru at the recoronation of Bhavananda. Yes, that means the Prahlad group is endorsing the pedophile guru program by their endorsing people like Tamohara, a cheer leader of a GBC guru.  

* Yes, the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad group, said "lawyers are all nonsense" and PADA is foolish to use lawyers when we had the BBT sued for changed books. Yes, that means they did not want the original books to happen.

* Yes, this same group is promoting Bhakta das, who is the biggest cheerleader of Radhanath swami and the GBC guru system.

* Yes, this is either madness, or a clever disguise to keep promoting the GBC guru system. In any case, most devotees think this is what happens when one tries to mix the Hare Krishna religion with -- Illuminati / CIA / chemtrails / Zionist Conspiracy / Skull and Bones society, etc. One goes whacky-doodles. Srila Prabhupada did not want his followers and disciples to study all these crazy conspiracy groups and their writings, and the result of doing that is pretty clear, it makes people go mad.

ys pd


Sunday, September 22, 2013

Conversation about "use of criticism" (09/22/13)



PADA: Criticism started with the GBC's gurus, they said we have to worship Jayatirtha and offer bhogha to him, despite he is taking drugs and having illicit affairs, and they said anyone who disagrees with that pooja system has to leave ISKCON, and so they kicked us all out. They established a policy that we have to worship debauchees, and they criticized Srila Prabhupada's standards for guru. So they criticized the platform of acharya, and they still are saying acharyas fall down. ys pd

A das: Room Conversation—March 16, 1974, Vṛndāvana http://prabhupadabooks.com / AND I THINK MOHANACHANDRAN NAIR M IS RIGHT...TO SUPPORT SOME POINT WE USE THE QUOTES OF PRABHUPADA ACCORDING TO CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES ... IT IS NOT WHIMSICALLY THAT WE SAY THIS OR THAT ... WE WILL AND CAN USE THIS INSTRUCTION OF PRABHUPADAS, HOW CAN WE BE WRONG IF WE APPLY IT WHEN IT WHEN WE HAVE TO, AND WE ARE RIGHT...?

Harikesh: ...position to criticize his Godbrothers, no matter what?
Prabhupāda: You can criticize, if you are right. You cannot criticize wrongly. [break]

PADA: Right, Srila Prabhupada personally told me to only have pure things on the altars or Krishna will not accept the offering, so in 1978 we said that we cannot have the photos of debauchees on Krishna's altars, and so the gang of four gurus kicked us out for saying that. We are repeating Srila Prabhupada, so there is no question that is right. They still have photos of all kinds of conditioned souls on the altars, they have not changed the policy. Policy is made by the acharya, that is his policy, no impure things on the altars, he made that rule.

W das: Constructive criticism derived from FACT finding is derived from Srila Prabhupada himself, on the issue of his God- Brothers deviations. Srila Prabhupada is Right,so he makes a constrictive criticism. He didn't criticized wrongly.

J D: The point should be will it help or hurt someones devotional creeper?.. If a new person hears blasting of gurus and all this before they even get started in the process, or a new devotee.....they may leave all together. There is a way to teach others about the nonsense in ISKCON and GBC etc.

But criticizing others only makes us look bad even if it is true.. It may be done to help someone if it is done truthfully and to protect another person from harm..but at the same time it must be done carefully.. but if it hurts another then it is not good. There has been an overabundance of this name calling and bashing all over the internet and it is not attracting others to the Prabhupadanugas.. it is doing the opposite.

Let Srila Prabhupada do the bashing. We dont need to be news castor's.. We just need to tell the sidhanta.. everyone will learn through the grape vine who did what. But to constantly bring it up in discussions and then blast each other along the way.. Its so distasteful to anyone. But it has become a passtime of so many Prabhupadanugas and a habit and a kind of addiction for some... Let new devotees come ... lets not teach them the wrong way to discuss and talk amongst one another.. Otherwise they may just run away and want to be with the peaceful group who is not actually following the truth of what Srila Prabhupada instructed for ISKCON. In that case we did them a huge disservice.

Its important to know others are hearing and watching and running also.. Better to keep their attention with Srila Prabhupada quotes... the other will be apparent then they can make a wise decision. But if they get no chance to hear in fear of blasphemy then they will remain lost because of someone who think it right to criticize if it is right. Lets not use one verse to back up our criticizing... Srila Prabhupada also said so many things against arguing and criticizing.. So best we consider all involved and who it will harm...Lets all be very very careful how we speak and how we are going to help one another.. Hare Krishna.

A das: Vaishnava is Vaishnava, rascal is rascal..so please Shrila Prabhupada and Radha/Krsna give me the wisdom to always know who is who, namely by their actions...and rascals should not be criticized..but beaten up with facts facts facts - and action of our own good example. Hare Krsna  All Glory's to HDG Shrila Prabhuada!

"Similarly, those who are Krsna conscious should also kill - not by weapons but by logic, by reasoning, and by education. If one is a demon, we can use logic...

J Devi: Yes.. we should Give The Sidhanta... Not put our opinion. We can say wordage that attracts instead of detracts.. Instead of using the words like pedophiles and molesters and on and on. we can say those who have abused .. Instead of saying BOGUS GURUS ...

A D: Before anything, we, ourselves must become the perfect example. Perfect example of following Shrila Prabhupadas instructions, this is where strength, empowerment, credibility and wisdom come from.

K Devi: "āpane ācare keha, nā kare pracāra pracāra karena keha, nā karena ācāra"'ācāra', 'pracāra',--nāmera karaha 'dui' kārya tumi--sarva-guru, tumi jagatera ārya.

"Some behave very well but do not preach the cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, whereas others preach but do not behave properly."You simultaneously perform both duties in relation to the holy name by your personal behavior and by your preaching. Therefore you are the spiritual master of the entire world, for you are the most advanced devotee in the world."http://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/antya/4/103

PADA:  The siddhanta is simple, the guru must be a resident of Krishna loka. The GBC says no, that is bogus because: The guru is often engaged in illicit sex, drugs, criminal activity; Placing molesters in the schools; Kicking out the Prabhupadanugas; Gambling in Reno; Going to the cinema shows; Getting massages from female massage women -- and then having illicit sex with those women (and then advertising using condoms); Shooting machine guns and getting arrested for having a machine gun; Shooting shot guns at beer cans that the guru was also drinking; Shooting guns at occupied buildings and getting arrested; Trying to buy Hugh Hefners Boeing airplane because it has a swimming pool; Buying gold and losing $170,000 when the price went down; Taking advice from the Gaudiya Matha, babajis, psychics, ghost busters, tantrics, financial experts, lawyers; Spending (wasting) $15 millions dollars suing the ritviks while their TOVP building remains a skeleton, etc. 

We are not criticizing anyone in particular here, but someone has to say, this is not the standard behavior of Lord Krishna's guru successors, or else it looks like we are compromised with these abominations. We have no choice but to separate ourselves from this program, or else it looks like we are promoting / acquiescing with it. Then there are those who say we and Sulochana should not have gone public with this protest, ok some of the protesters who tried to negotiate with the GBC gurus privately, without public police, media and court back up, are dead. Even Sulochana was taken out despite we both went public together. These bogus guru people are dangerous, hello! ys pd